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What Can Mandriva Linux 2006 Mean for Home Users?
sitor writes "What can Mandriva Linux 2006 mean for home users? is an article giving an extensive explanation about the pro's and con's of using a linux distribution such as Mandriva Linux 2006. It was written with people in mind that are in doubt whether linux might be something for them or not. It aims to inform them in a neutral way, understandable to newbies. Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."
Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."
With all respect to Mandriva, I'd much rather just point them to ubuntu
(I feel I should make an OS X reference, but I just can't be bothered)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
It means no driver support, half-finished software, archaic text mode apps from the 1970s, a bloated buggy 2.6 kernel, definitely no games, and the idea that you're supporting a filthy French company.
That article is rubbish. Ubuntu is obviously the choice for first-time switchers, and is the most polished and accessible distribution for newbies and gurus alike. The article doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of the concepts of Linux, or say who would switch and why, and what they'd encounter. And as for paying for mandriva so that you can play DVDs. What the hell? Who wrote this crap? Sorry, nice idea, but better articles have been written before. I think a windows->linux wiki written by past, present, and future switchers would be a much more interesting idea.
Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."
Oh, if only I could get back the time I've spent explaining Linux to neighbors and grandmothers! I've thrown away my life! I'll never get those preciouos 43 seconds back!
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
Read the subject, enough said.
Linux Mandriva 2006 _is_ my home PC main operating system, i.e. the one that gets booted by default. That said, if this is one of the supposedly most "desktop friendly" distributions, i can't be very optimistic. For starters, 3D acceleration does not work. It's an ATI card, ok, but you can't dismiss what nearly half PCs use just by saying "buy supported hardware". You can blame ATI more than Mandriva, but it's a fact that the same hardware under SuSe worked with ATI drivers (other minor things didn't work, like booting reliably and not freezing). Then there's the myriad of little (and not so little) annoyances, like the KDE Control Center becoming suddenly empty. What would you say about Windows if the Control Panel icons randomly disappeared for no apparent reason? And how do you explain to your non-geek (but not illiterate) relatives that in order to download and install software it's not sufficient for the site to say "RPM - for Linux", but it must be pulled "automagically" from some repository holding just the right kind of RPM for the specific Mandriva release? IMHO, these are the kind of things that keep lots of people from using Linux on their home PCs, where things either "just work" or they are not worth fiddling in order to make them work.
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
Yeah, right. Suggesting Linux to average users isn't neutral, not even with a "what could be improved" chapter to ease your conscience. Only if you disregard much of what people expect from computers does "the switch" look like a viable option for more than a fringe group at the moment. A neutral article would tell it like it is: Linux for infrastructure, but not on the desktop, yet.
Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article.
My eyes! My eyes are bleeding!
Linux in general could mean a whole lot for home users. Easy, free, fun apps, a good interface, and little to no maintaining needed. Ubuntu and Mandriva look especially good for such purposes. However, the question isn't what _can_ linux mean for home users, but what _will_ linux mean for home users. Short answer? Not much. Long answer? Microsoft has a monopoly. They own home computers. As long as MS has its way, the "Year of the Linux Desktop" will never come. MS is powerful, has connections with computer makers, and has literaly billions it can put into advertising. Untill Linux becomes more unified, more high-profile, and easier to use (command lines suck for home users) it won't stand a chance. Maybe, just maybe, and if it surpasses those problems, it will have a chance. I'm not against it, I love linux, but I just can't see it working the way it is.
~HH
Incidentally, the reason I left Mandrake 4 years ago for Fedora (core 2, i think) was that Fedora had better Japanese language support. I also didn't like MenuDrake.. too inflexible, iirc.
Oh God!! I was't really prepared to wade through a flame war over distros this morning. What a bunch of freaking zealots! You distro fanatics make me want to puke.
I started on Slackware because someone said it's a good distro to use if you want to learn what's really going on. I stand by that statement today. If you want to learn Linux then don't use some mamby-pamby cute distro. If you want to be a user of Linux then use whatever most resembles whatever floats your boat. Some might argue it's best to use something that looks most like Windows. Some wouldn't.
I ran into an intersting discussion in the real world this week that I thought pertinent. The conclusion goes as follows:
From a practical point: most *nix servers that are not Linux based (HP/Sun/IBM) have little in the way of cute interface management tools. On these heavy lift platforms the configuration tool of choice seems to be vi more than a GUI. I don't think anyone has been able to surpass this customization and I'm not certain that it is a requirement that they do. If you don't understand the workings of the applications then a GUI interface will only permit you to do damage.
It's very likely that my proposed list of distro's will create a lot of controversy, but first consider where you sit on the spectrum between ultimate customization of the machine and "I'll take what I get" user.
Explaining the concept of package management to intelligent non-geeks is not difficult. In fact in my experience people "get it" quite naturally -- they just need to be told about the pros and cons, not just "click here, here and here".
I don't see why this is anything new. I've been using Mandriva 2006 on my home PCs for almost 6 months now! I'm running 2006 x86_64 (recently I've moved over to Unbuntu), and 2006 Cooker on my i686. Mandriva is a nice attempt at a distrobution. Although I find that they don't generally have as stable and well maintained software as other distro's I've used. However, Ubuntu is perfect in almost every way. When it installed, it even came with a chipset driver, which Mandriva didn't. Now this may not seem like a big deal, but when you're running an nForce4 chipset, you realise how crummy it is to recompile your Video/chipset driver everytime you use a different kernel.
I generally agree that Microsoft has the monopoly and consequently it is very hard for Linux to mean anything to the home user but...
Lose the Microsoft Office Applications off of the Windows platform and the home user suddenly has less and less reason to be sitting on a MS platform. The Opensource movement can make a serious impression on the Microsoft world by pushing hard the alternatives like OpenOffice.org that the home user can really make productive use of.
Make a couple of apparently insignificant 'baby steps' away from the Microsoft applications and all of a sudden, you begin to wonder why you need Windows. I made the move to OpenOffice back in November 05 and I am now beginning to see the light and the possibility that within the next few months I may not need Windows at all. Without MS Office, there is almost no need to have Windows!
There are only two things that need to be fixed in the Linux world in my view for even greater acceptance:
* Vendor support for Printer drivers (eg: Canon)
* Mainstream publisher support from all the top games vendors.
"If it's lost, it'll turn up. Things always do" "I love it when a plan comes together"
Another Linux distro that I won't bother installing on my XP box.
I used to use "Mandrake" back in the day when Wal*Mart sold it. I was about 15 at the time (23 now) and loved it other than the fact that I had a winmodem and it didnt work for me to connect to the internet. I toggled back and forth with it as each release came out thinking each new release was a step in the right direction.
Then someone showed me ubuntu and I havent looked back, it does everything I've always wanted from a distro right out of the box with no tweaking necessary, at least in my case. I may start a virtual machine and load mandriva just to see if it has improved on anything, but right now I am content with the latest ubuntu
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill
No disrespect to Mandriva, but their "model" doesn't sound that appealing. OpenSuSE will give you pretty well the same for free (fast downloads, too) while even the official version of SuSE with extra packages on the DVD is quite a lot cheaper than the Mandriva offerings. I hate to say it, but if I had to choose a distro that was losing out as the Linux competition hots up, it is Mandriva. That doesn't mean it isn't extremely good, just that its future looks dubious to say the least. The name changes, their financial situation and news of trouble at the top doesn't help either.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
huh? 2 days? Maybe I just don't use enough applications (it is for sure tweaked for optimum gaming performance ~ 'tweakguides'), but 2 days is quite a stretch. More like half to three quarters of a day.
Sorta Off Topic: For all the talk of security threats and ease of "upkeep", for a moderate to advance user (which is, from what i've heard, what you have to be to use *nix) Windows XP pro 64-bit isn't hard to keep clean and secure, at least for me.
lets see my ati pretty mutch fell over and died this includs my tv card that runs on every other linux distro sence the open source drivers work. after abought 3 hrs trying to make shit work in mandriva i just gave up. mandriva used to be good now it sucks. now suse 10 works fine on my pc ati etc all work. most linux users would say blame ati but isnt it odd it works fine in suse. i think suse does something called beta tesing and making shure stuff works not just package and sell it. when my 3d card didnt work i was fine with blaming ati but when the tv card failed my blame switched couse it works in every ver of mandriva befor 2006.
ubunto isnt perfect eyther it managed to fail on my soundcard witch even works in mandiva.
http://www.phildev.net/linux/apt-quickref.html Below is a quick reference to cover some of the most commonly needed apt uses.
./configure or make) and have all necessary packages installed as needed:
Download and install package:
apt-get install package
Update apt's list of available packages:
apt-get update
Upgrade all installed packages with upgrades available:
apt-get upgrade
Upgrade to new distro, or in general upgrade anything available for update including core system packages:
apt-get dist-upgrade
Uninstall package:
apt-get remove package
Uninstall package, and its config files, and don't leave it in the database as 'uninstalled':
apt-get --purge remove package
Search for a package like pattern:
apt-cache search pattern
Get information on installed package:
dpkg -s package
Find which installed package file belongs to:
dpkg -S inetd.conf
List which files are in package:
apt-file list package
Find out what packages provide file:
apt-file search file
Run a command (such as
auto-apt run command
Unless specified, the package in reference doesn't have to be already installed for these to work... but the database needs to be updated. You can update the appropriate database via:
apt-get update
or
auto-apt update
or
apt-file update
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I had used Mandrake since 8.1. I ran out and bought 10.0 Power Pack. I gave up on it when I became frustrated trying to install programs that weren't already installed. Mandrake wanted you to buy a membership for most of the stuff they have available online. The other thing that got up my nose was that Mandrake wanted you to insert the CDs that came with the distro and then quit recognizing the CDs.
I realize that there are ways to solve the problems I had. It's just that every time I changed something, I would have to re-implement the solutions. Since it had been a while since I originally solved the problem, I had forgotten the solution and it would take me nearly as long to implement it the second time. I gave up.
Most of my boxes now run SuSE. For reasons that I can't quite put my finger on, it's way less annoying; and they aren't trying to sell me a membership.
"Ah, the joy of casual racial hatred."
What race are the French again?
I love it when you idiots do this. Keep screaming racism so I can keep making fun of you.
I'd much rather a good solid Slackware-style distribution (preferably my own, of course, but there are other good ones, too). From what I've seen, they tend to be a hell of a lot faster, easier to configure – imagine a world without those horrible RPM's! – and probably a bit more secure as well. So far I've got everyone in my family hooked on my distribution, which is saying quite a bit actually since most of them were fighting tooth and nail just to keep Internet Explorer for a while...
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
Mandriva is not a sitting target. The trend I've seen (since V6) has caused me to abandon the distro. While easy to start with, it's a difficult distribution to support. Try building the stock kernel for example. You'll discover that the Mandriva kernel naming conventions are unique and arbitrary- the source kernel distributed with the release won't build the same kernel you have installed by default & you need to coerce the kernel name too, after you figure out where the right .config file is (/boot). Try and explain that to a new user...
"Can I run my regular software on Linux?"
"No"
"Can I play my games on it?"
"No"
"Well, at least it's easier to use right?"
"Well, not at first, but after you figure it out..."
"Um, thanks anyway..."
Why would an average PC user make the effort to change over to Linux?
Unfortunately, the average PC user running Windows Whatever doesn't even know what Linux is.
As user friendly as distros like Ubuntu and Mandriva are, I personally have not seen many people "making the switch". I am not the type who goes out and attempts to "convert the masses", but most people do know that I use Linux at home regularly.
The only person who has approached me for help with Linux is a fellow programmer who is learning web-based languages. He was looking for a way to host a website for free off of his home network, and said it was a good excuse to get exposure to other OSes. So, I hooked him up with one of my Ubuntu CDs (which I received for free in the mail), and showed him the goodness of LAMP.
Other than him, nobody I know really seems to give a crap. They know Windows is insecure by default, but don't want to have to jump through hoops to chat on AIM, or post on MySpace. I don't see any of these people spending the time to learn the basics of an entirely new OS to be completely honest.
While I can appreciate the ease-of-use that these distros have, I almost feel (from how they are advertized) as if they are trying to wage war against Microsoft. Instead of focusing on the unwashed masses, maybe these distros would be better marketed towards those who are fed up with Windows and looking to try something new?
Registered Linux user #421033
There are solutions to this (e.g. the installation of MS Office on Mandriva Linux with the aid of Crossover Office), but then you loose some of the advantages of Mandriva Linus (price, a bit of security,...).
Everyone has their internet spelling nazi pet peeve, this one is mine. Drives me crazy because many otherwise intelligent people seem incapable of spelling lose.
~Rebecca
Hear take any of those!
"You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
To help people install Linux, for the first time, the following was targeted at this, keeping a dual boot system:. html
. html
http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-5982893
for those that say Ubuntu is great, my own take on it:
http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-6066271
a better option for helping people pick a distro:
http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php
J. Henager: If the average user can put a CD in and boot the system and follow the prompts, he can install and use Linux
That anyone using an Nvidia graphics card can't use it. The shipped X server on the DVD ISOs, and probably the CDs as well, is broken for NVidia cards and just shows a corrupted display. You have to do a text mode update, or use VESA while you do a graphical one, for it to work properly.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
I tried Mandriva 2006 Free... on my dad's laptop. He needed to hook-up to our wireless and couldn't figure it out how with their shitty GUI tools. Needless to say, considering the guy is a nuclear physicist, neither could I.
/by hand/ using iwconfig and dhclient. But their crappy redhat-derived network up scripts (which aren't documented ANYWHERE, unlikes Debian's/Ubuntu's) and broken-ish KDE tools (both of them - the one in the "control panel" and the dock) don't seem to understand what to do with the 128 WEP key I give them.
Oh sure I can bring it up
Sheesh.
Not only should you warn your friends:
Those games you love to play on Windows? GIve them up.
But also:
Those mp3s and DVDs? Don't expect them to play out-of-the-box. I'm serious.
Considering the hoops that I had to go through to make Mandrake do multimedia AND DVDs, your friend might as well be as skilled as 'Mr. decss' Johansen to get video or music playback.
Don't call them a boxed set of Linux CDs; call them a botched set of Linux. Period. The only ones singing Mandriva praises are those who've cut their teeth on previous editions, who've hung out in the forums, who know what a wiki is, and who have Linux as their middle name, not Joe Sixpack.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
Seven years (Mandrake/Mandriva) and still with them - Works great for me! Thank you Mandriva!
With respect to:
...
'Pro'-software:
Some commercial software delivers functionalities that are not available under Linux. The other way around happens as well, but that does not give so many problems, as the majority must do without them, and you are not expected to have it available. That is only a real problem for quite advanced or professional functionalities, but if it is those you really need,
We don't have to "do without them", since there is a wonderful FREE Windows API implementation, that being WINE (Wine Is NOT an Emulator, or as I like to call it, Windows Is Not for Everyone) and the commercial version, Crossover, which I personally use and it works great.
It has out of the box support for many popular M$ software and can be configured to run just about any windows application, even some DOS apps! Granted there are some issues with running some Windows software and can take some tweaking, but to say we must "do without" is simply not true.
Six months ago, I bought a Toshbia tecra S2 (it had a wicked 6600 Go video card!) and before I even booted M$, I installed Mandriva 2006 December edition (I'm a club member) Here's my experiences:
1. Boot it up, resize the NTFS partition; windows still booted afterwards.
2. Install the usual stuff.
3. Observe that the wireless NIC, the wired NIC, the video, the sound AND the modem all work under mdv2006.
No hassles, no "recompiling the kernel", no endless searches on line; install and go.
Yeah I can just boot-n-go with M$ but I happen to like Linux, I don't like windows.
If someone had the same laptop with a dead HDD, they didn't have recovery media and they didn't want to spend $150 on a new OS, mandriva would at least get their laptop functional.
"Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."
Problem is that the distributions became much different and this article is only about mandriva and not linux in general.
Anyways since we are on distro wars, I think the best for starters is Slax since it is really err, awesome and it is a live CD, so they don't have to install and deal with partitions.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
I've really only used an MS OS. Just a brief glimpse of UNIX and Mac's OS at Uni is the extent of my non-MS experience. It's always been on my todo list to create a partition to install a Linux OS to try it out. It's still a lot of time and effort for a minor curiosity. I'm going to do that soon for Vista though. Before I do though, what's the #1 killer reason to try Linux out first?
The reason's I haven't are:
1. Fear of an uncomfortable user experience because it is different to what I'm use to. It's like learning a new language. I'm slow and feel dumb at it.
2. The value of software to a user is relative to the number of users. What value is there in becoming familiar with a niche product with out a specific need to?
3. All the pro's for Linux don't really stand out (like those in this article). All software I've dealt with is never perfect. If they're both designed to do the same thing, why change from what you're familiar with?
I'm not a big poster but read slashdot daily. I had to post about my weekend with ubuntu... Let me first start by saying that I am a linux newbie. I'm a windows admin beginning to dable with ubuntu. I've been comfortable using Ubuntu as the default on my home laptop for about a month now. Over the weekend I decided to get the wireless card working, I had tried breifly before without success and decided to give it a real go. To make a long story short...I've read every how-to/wiki/forum on how to get wireless cards working and 2 days later I still don't have wireless. The point: With windows I would plug it in, it would ask me for the drivers and I would point to the correct folder. On Ubuntu I have spent 2 days at a command prompt typing all sorts of stuff and it still doesn't work. Linux has a way to go before it is ready for the average joe user.
"...and the idea that you're supporting a filthy French company."
I know, those damned French!
Did you know, the French flag used to be made WITHOUT the red and blue panels?
Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig
This article is actually a good introduction to Linux, though perhaps not in the way it was intended. As a competent, grammatically correct translation from another language into English, but by someone who is not a native speaker of English, it has a certain awkwardness to it, requires that the reader take a little more time to figure out what it's saying, and leaves the reader with a feeling of discomfort about just how well-polished this Linux stuff really is. If someone is put off by that, then they probably shouldn't try Linux; if they're not, it might be a good move for them.
Understand: I'm not criticising the translator; his English is far better than any second language of mine, and better than a lot of translated-into-English I've read over the years. Just an observation.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
How about a big fat load of NOTHING. The average home user is not adventurous enough to be curious. The average home user knows little about how the PC runs using Windows. In fact that average home user when faced with a PC that has some Linux distro on it with KDE or GNOME will ask you, "What version of Windows is that"? Or... "Is that a Mac"? The average user (thanks to MS's huge marketing and PR budget) has no idea that there is an alternative to the OS, let alone nearly all of their applications. Ask the average user what word processor they use and they will happily report: "Microsoft Word. I think". Look at their machine and they very well may have Word. Or Works. Or Wordperfect. Or some other company's word processor. I speak from the experience of knowing someone who got a Dell bundled with Wordperfect and they still called it MS Word. The average user will not believe you when you tell them you can give them a system with every application they would possibly need and they dont' have to spend a dime on the software. They will assume you're a pirate. They might even think open source/free software is piracy. (Yeah. It's piracy about as much as it is when I build a chair or table at home with my own wood and tools and deprive some poor little corporation of their hard earned cash by not buying their crappy pressboard table or chair) The average user wants to be able to buy common hardware at Best Buy or CompUSA, plug it in and use it. Typically this means CHEAP hardware which is usually NOT supported on most Linux distros since the manfuacturers refuse to release the specs for FOSS devs to build support. This is NOT a failing of Linux, it's a failing of the hardware manufacturer to cooperate, understand or see beyond their share of the market. Because of this, the average user will assume that "Linux sucks" because it didn't work with the $10 printer they got that uses $40 ink cartridges or the $20 scanner that plugs into the USB port but needs a Windows driver for half of it's brain. If the average user could be educated enough to realize that you DON'T NEED to go to the big box store to get new software when you use Linux, that would, at least, be a step in the right direction. But mark my words... if that ever happened, MS would put up an online "free" repository of some of their apps beyond the ones bundled with the OS or service packs. And it would be a "Click and Run" type of store too. I honestly don't see this changing unless:
;P
A. The distros unite (which would suck for us)
B. We get one central PR campaign that is distro agnostic (slightly better but a huge task due to the differences in distros)
C. Most of you shave your beards, cut your hair and get better clothes (I've got an inner-Steve Jobs myself and he makes it impossible for facial hair to grow)
Oh yeah... lose the sandles too.
NOTE: I am a 100% Linux user. I try to educate everyone I know about Linux if they are interested. I find that about 25% of the time they're interested. My wife, my parents and a friend of mine are all Linux users to varying degrees. My parent's and wife actually use it as their desktop and my friend uses it as his server at home> I just think that rather than concentrating on "winning the desktop" the focus should be 95% on writting better software and 5% writting better PR in a unified manner. How about this? Someone puts together a distro for PR folks that is basically a LiveCD with an installer and the tools to make some wicked PR. Someone else hosts it with an eye to hosting the wicked PR in the future. And we get some new PR people who want to get a little exposure doing a large campaign? Oh well... it's a thought. Anyone know if Edina Monsoon wants in?
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
It's not free, but if you need to get Canon printers working under Linux, check out: http://www.turboprint.info/
Cost is minimal, and the driver works nicely.
for people trying out linux.
Knoppix 4 is the only distro that will boot properly on my system and it runs reasonaly well of the DVD.
I just spent a frustrating weekend trying to get Mandriva 2006, suse 9.2, Suse 10.0 running on my machine. I can't even get them to install. Other than Knoppix, the others choke on the the fact that i have a Siil3112 SATA controller ( but not RAIDed). I do have 2 other IDE drives, 1 blank one on which I am trying to install linux.
Suse 10 will start installing in safe mode, but freezes/locks up 10% into the copying process... One of the messages I saw somewhere (in one of the alternate consoles ) it was trying to write tho the yast.log - Stupidly it was trying to do that to the frst drive - the SATA drive that is NTFS formatted and mounted read-only. I would think the log should be written to the drive to which it it is being installed...
So having a frustrating time for large portions of 3 days trying to install linux, my personal observation would be "Linux sucks!". While getting XP installed on this machine wasn't as easy as it should have been either, i had its issue resolved in 1 hour ( needed a driver diskette for the siil controller ). We use linux at work as servers without any trouble. But as a desktop at home, my attitude is unless i can make it work on my machine linux sucks as a desktop, never mind seeing the frustrating experience people I know are having doing more than just the basic things of browsing and word processing on linux. Frustrating doesn't mean impossible, just spending more than 30 minutes trying to get something to work - like being able to watch a DVD movie. ( need this codec, this codec needs this library, this library needs to be in this specific path....).
Bah, despite this I will try the latest fedora core on my home machine to see if it works.
Well, in Nuku'alofa, Tonga. [grin]
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
"Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article." :-( Just my luck...
The people that will maybe someday ask me that question, are probably the ones that don't speak english very well
Next time I'll read TFA first : The introduction says that is was translated from Dutch :-) Lucky me ;-)
As Elaine Benes once said "Absolootely nuttin".
"WTF is a "PLF repo"? I've been using Linux in various forms for at least a decade and I do not know what that is."
r icted_Plugins_For_Ubuntu
Well, if I was the typical Linux dickhead developer, I'd tell you to RTFM. In this case, I'll suggest you use Google.
http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Repository_of_Rest
Wow, way hard, took almost a minute. Please STFU.
I installed PCLinuxOS.p92 for ATI8500+ and got curious as to how it would compare with Mandriva 2006, so I installed it too.
IMO, PCLinuxOS has better eye candy and is cleaner than Mandriva.
I also liked the fact that after I added a certain single app ALL video files, including the CNN videos, ran faultlessly. Every 3D app (foobilliard, csmash, crace, tuxracer, etc.) worked faultlessly. In my opinion, PCLinuxOS would make a perfect distro for Windows refugees.
But, I returned to MEPIS and installed MEPIS-6.0 beta2 because the repository has more apps, and it is more friendly to a developing environment than PCLinuxOS is. PCLinuxOS is based on rpm files and when I couldn't find an app (like Maxima or QT4) in their meager repository I had to resort to using RPMBone. There, I discovered that the only RPMs that were compatible with PCLinuxOS were the aging Mandrake 9.2 RPMs, and when trying to install some development tools I encountered that thing that caused me to leave Mandrake in the first place: discrepency hell.
I encounter very view discrepencies in MEPIS, but MEPIS still has menu structure awkwardness, and is not very eye appealing. PCLinuxOS has a MUCH better admin application than MEPIS, but MEPIS autoloads and configures so much stuff that going to the MEPIS OS Center is done primarily, for me, to turn wirelss connections on and off. I prefer MEPIS to Kubuntu because KDE is better supported in MEPIS, IMO, than in Kubuntu, which seems to be treated like a ztepchild to Ubuntu.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
This is a purely religious argument. For every reply here where someone has stated "[distribution] runs great on my laptop, but Mandriva turned it in to a brick", I can say "Mandriva worked perfectly on my laptop right out of the box, but [distribution] turned it in to a brick".
Everyone's Darling Linux Distribution of the Month, otherwise known as Ubuntu, can't even get through the early stages of installation. Gentoo won't either. Suse will install, but it will never boot again. Slackware installs, will boot, and works fine...so long as I'm happy with only a console and never want to have a GUI.
Mandriva, on the other hand, installs flawlessly and properly detects all the hardware (I guess I should mention this is a Toshiba Satellite A75-S213). The *only* tweek I have to do is tell xorg.conf I have a 1280 x 800 LCD instead of a 1280 x 768 LCD (but even without that change, X will still run and is useable).
And for that reason, yes, as a matter of fact I am a paying Mandriva Club member. I'd rather pay for something that works good than get something that works only half-assed (if at all) for free. Yes, I realize I could probably fiddle with other distributions and finally make them work, after varying degrees of effort. I can also build a car engine from scratch. That doesn't mean I want to have to.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
"Derrr...whats a partition. Should that one be so small?"
Most people have a store bought machine with their trusty restore CDs. That takes a whopping 30 minutes. Windows users may need to swap CDs to install software, but at least we can buy our software. Linux users need to use their trusty apt-get function over and over and over again to get what they want. Oh, don't forget about compiling your kernel a million times. Derrr, whats a kernel...is it like the corn? And don't try to tell me about all the packages on the CD when you install linux. Those freaking packages are named the most moronic things ever. Try using a name that people understand or at least give it a small explanation of what it dows. And why do they need to put a G or a K in front of it just because it runs of Gnome or KDE. Its confusing as hell sometimes.
And anyone that knows enough about windows to be proficient knows about Norton Ghost and how to use it. Guess what, I can take my 30 gigs of data, all fresh and pretty and ghost it to an external hard drive and restore it, hands free in about an hour. Reboot and viola, all done.
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
emerge --sync
emerge --update --deep world
emerge porthole
Sorry, couldn't resist.
You do have a point. I loved Madrake (that's how long it's been since I've installed it) but hated how hard it was to install software. I tried debian and loved it for apt-get. That transferred to all the debian based distros who were not as anal about making stuff stable.
Finally found Gentoo and Gentoo based distros and have not looked back. Ease of maintenance and ease of program installation is what makes a distro great.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
the article is about Mandriva 2006 Powerpack, which is not freely for download, but a low cost commercial edition :
t s_id=288
http://store.mandriva.com/product_info.php?produc
this is a double DVD edition : 32-bit and 64-bit for EUR 54,=
Robert
I believe Mandriva's Diskdrake is best for fast installs.The ability to save the packages tarter/diskdrake.html
list as perl script for sharing with new users is a great feature.
http://iew3.technion.ac.il/CC/Comp_news/Mandrake_
package_list.pl from a recent install. this allows installation in under 10 minutes.
# You should always check the syntax with 'perl -cw auto_inst.cfg.pl'
# before testing. To use it, boot with ``linux defcfg=floppy''
$o = {
'default_packages' => [
etc,etc
Debian and M$ XP both take 2 hours to install on same machine. As more places install
Linux , the economics of the fastest install will impress customers.
Same here, just loaded Ubuntu last week. I finally got the console to fit the screen Saturday. It was no easy task. Since the machine is so old, I also needed to run Xfce, again, almost a week to get working. I was lucky in the fact that I had on old laptop that I could format and install Linux alone. I screwed up a few times and had to reinstall. It had W2K installed before and I hated it. No way this old machine could use XP. I'm learning and will continue to do so, if for nothing else to see if this really is eventually better than OS X or Windows. So far, I like that it's faster and has given new life to the old laptop. My cheapo Linksys B model wireless card should be here any day, and I'm bracing myself for the install. For Linux to gain any widespread use, it has a ways to go. I like playing with it and learning, but I wouldn't be doing this on my main machine. Right now it's not for most people. I know very few people that go beyond internet, e-mail, and some very basic office apps. All of which Ubuntu easily handles out of the box, if your machine and everything in it works correctly (which it probably won't). I would probably switch my desktop over also, but I have a ton of software that I do use, and I'm not ready at this point to spend weeks trying to get it to run under Linux. Why work harder to get the same thing? Maybe I'm the only person on the planet that's had very few Windows issues. I'm no fanboy, but I don't have a beef either. I feel about the same with OS X. The wife has a very nice Apple set up, but really, there's not much difference. When I get a new computer, I will most likely install Linux on the old one to see how it runs with some power. I would try it now from a Live CD (here's some irony), but a keyboard failure at startup won't let me change the BIOS to load from a CD. Am I having fun yet?
irc.elite-linux-users.org
n00b: Should I switch to Linux?
31337 Linux User: RTFA
n00b: Huh? RTFA?
31337 Linux User: WTF? You dont no wut RTFA means? RTFM!
Make America grate again!
I almost feel (from how they are advertized) as if they are trying to wage war against Microsoft. Instead of focusing on the unwashed masses, maybe these distros would be better marketed towards those who are fed up with Windows and looking to try something new?
I use linux exclusively - even at work under VMWare. I try to be a Good Evangelist, but you know something? The emotion I typically have regarding my evangelizing is probably best described as "trepidation".
Good ol' fear. I wonder if I recommend this to someone, and they go home and actually try it out, that there's a chance that they're going to want to do something it can't do (Reader Rabbit for the kiddies, maybe), or have some hardware that it can't handle (25-function printer/fax/copier/scanner/masseuse/water-dispens
Granted, these things aren't as prevalent as they used to be, but I guess it's still the first thing that crosses my mind. Sure *I* know that the Kodak software that comes with the digital camera is fluff, and that I can just mount the camera as a vfat fs under the usb-storage driver, pull off the pictures, and edit them with GIMP, but -- and it's the damndest thing -- my wife seems to have a problem with that. Know what else? Other techies seem to have a problem with that too.
Sadly, Linux is *not* ready for Joe Average, and won't be until vendors start releasing Linux software on the gizmo's CD. It needs to set up reasonably easily and cleanly, and with minimal intervention from the user. Linux already has the answer to the latter with some really stellar package managers, but so far, manufacturers just aren't doing their part. Until they do, Linux on the Desktop is only fit for people who know to use, and don't mind using, the GIMP instead of the provided photo software, and for those who only want to do internet/office type stuff, and don't have any weird hardware.
I've been using Linux for almost 10 years now, and will typically find the linux answer to the Windows versions of a software package because Linux provides me the power, flexibility, and stability I demand. However, "Joe Average" doesn't demand that, but he does demand that the software pictured on the gizmo's packaging works as advertised. GNOME and KDE provide the familiar metaphores, but that's only part of the solution.
A user friendly and user oriented distro.
It is not perfect, it has flaw but they still try to improve it with end users in mind.
There is the club which can be seen as a way to support the distro and pay back for what you receive if you're not into development and contributions, but it is also a place to receive support ot to have your voice heard.
There has been time when the "voice heard" part was not obvious, but there are right now 2 paid moderators in the us forum and 1 in the french one. They are there to help users but also to make informations flow between developpers, head honchos and users.
recent example:
the one year release date comes from users, they are now arguing that 18 months support is too low for a one year release schedule, it is being debated.
kiosk, a new click to install web service was going to be only for silver users, both standard and silver complained, it will be available to standard users.
a spanish user who posted many insightfull comments in the forum and attracted attention toward its support site has seen his forums become the official spanish language forums.
I have many examples in mind, and it is true with cooker too, the development version, where some external users have a big influence on the distro itself.
The problem till now was more that this external user influence was not very obvious than that it didnt exist.
So, all in all, I would say, users would find in mandriva a distro for them and by them. You don't need to be technical to have influence over there like in most other distro.
Also, the discussion as to what will be in 2007 have started, so it's time to voice you preferences. (and contrary to what is often heard, you don't need to pay to log in in the forums or to acces the mandrivaclub.com site).
http://forum.mandrivaclub.com/index.php?op=En
http://club.mandriva.com/
DISCLAIMER: I'm the french moderator (see above). It therefore explains both my bias and the mistakes and frenchisms in my post.
I used to be a Linux hobbyist, but the last few years when I want a Linux installation (whether for a desktop or a server), I go with the Mandriva style distros. They're not just for desktop users, they're also great for those of us who don't want to invest an entire day tweaking an install.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
the comparison of automobile and computer operation will be acceptable. Both activities require the operator to _learn_ the skill of operation.
With that said, I use Mandriva 2006 100% now, having started from SLS, then RH, Debian, and then Mandrake. Easyurpmi is your friend, urpmi is as usable as apt-get, if not more so. Newer kernels turned me toward RH and Mandriva, I prefer the later's selection of apps. No, you don't get to play a game while it installs. This is installed on a Dell Inspiron 8500 with nvidida 4go, wifi and bluetooth. It has been a non-trivial task getting everything usable, and I've learned a few things in the process. I have several other machines running with M2k6, one primarily for use as an audio workstation involved even more learning with just the hardware, the software will have even more learning involved. And I'm just a noodler as far as music goes.
Granted, being on dialup (!) has certainly limited my choice of distros for the past couple years. It's fortunate that I've found Mandriva to be a perfectly usable distro. YMMV.
Owning a computer involves exploration and learning. I advise those not interested in either against computer ownership. "... bang the rocks together, guys."
Plus ca change, plus c'est les memes choses.
What Mandriva meant to me was that when I ordered CDRoms I got DVDs. This was something unuseable. When I tried to contact them, I ended up with another order of DVDs...still unuseable, but now I'm paying twice. When I tried a different way, I couldn't get any further than their contracted out shipping department. And they couldn't authorize an RMA.
No thank you. Mandriva does NOT deserve any more support. They used to be good guys, but this is foul. I *STILL* haven't been able to contact them, but it no longer matters, as I will never do business with them or recommend them again.
(They may not be intentionally evil. I can well imagine that this is just somebody clueless setting things up to be more efficient. The effect is the same.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It's going to be very funny if Linux ever acheives any kind of significant market share. Then everyone will discover just how insecure and buggy the OS really is (sort of like Mac users are at the moment).
Sacred cows are always such dainty things.
I bought Mandrake 8.1 off the shelf (Wal-Mart) and have been a loyal Mandrake user until recently. When I started using it, it was one of the friendlier distros around, with good hardware detection. However, there did continue to be quirks.
Mandrake is no less user-friendly than it was before, but the standards have improved, and Knoppix overtook Mandrake in terms of hardware detection and user friendliness back when it was still v3.2. Ubuntu continues the momentum.
I finally got sick and tired of having to reinstall Mandrake every time a new version came out (no, the "upgrade" process didn't work). I stopped upgrading at Mdk 10.0-official.
Funny to say: I'm typing this on my Mandrake 10.0-o system. I wish I could upgrade, because I dearly want to run AmaroK (which requires Mdk 10.1), but this is the version that will work with my ATI Rage Fury Pro with video out (no other distro and no other driver will let me see my computer screen on TV). I think XFree86 works and Xorg doesn't, so I'm stuck here and I can't upgrade.
My other computer just upgraded from KUbuntu Breezy Badger to Dapper Drake. I love the new version of KDE, the new features in KMail, the new improved Krusader. But --it doesn't work with my HP PSC-1210 printer/scanner/copier. Breezy Badger used to work, until one day it quit for no reason at all. Upgrading didn't help. I can still dual-boot into Mdk 10.0 and the printer will work.
Also, CUPS (Common Unix Printer System) didn't work on Ubuntu, even back when it recognized the printer. My Mandrake computer couldn't detect CUPS on the Ubuntu system. When I tried to browse to localhost:631, the traditional CUPS web-based server, the web page told me, "We at Ubuntu have disabled this interface, because we designed this much better interface under KControl, so you don't need to fall back on this CUPS server. Run along now." Of course, the KControl interface didn't work.
Ubuntu has a very nice package system, but I must debunk the myths of "rpm hell" since Mandrake's "urpmi" also nicely auto-resolved package dependencies. The only criticism I have of Mandrake's packaging is not with the system itself (rpm), but the packages that demanded a full library upgrade across the board, causing packages that depended on older versions of the library to fail.
So, I guess you'll have judge which is better. I started out this post wanting to say how much better Ubuntu was, but on further reflection, Mandrake has actually worked better with my hardware.
Like jozi (uncle post to this post), I would much rather use the computer than have to figure out what's wrong with it. I like tinkering, but I like tinkering on my own time, and I'd rather tinker to improve my computer than tinker to fix problems that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Also, CUPS (Common Unix Printer System) didn't work on Ubuntu, even back when it recognized the printer. My Mandrake computer couldn't detect CUPS on the Ubuntu system. When I tried to browse to localhost:631, the traditional CUPS web-based server, the web page told me, "We at Ubuntu have disabled this interface, because we designed this much better interface under KControl, so you don't need to fall back on this CUPS server. Run along now." Of course, the KControl interface didn't work.
I think that's a Kubuntu specific issue; I just went to localhost:681 on Ubuntu Dapper and I got a rather helpful-looking CUPS site.
Kubuntu, in my experience, has a lot more issues than Ubuntu. Every computer I've installed Ubuntu on has worked fine and recognized all the hardware, but Kubuntu has done stupid shit like refuse to recognize ethernet and once it even had a broken sudo after install (now wtf can you do with a ubuntu variant w/o sudo?). Now, granted, I haven't installed Ubuntu and Kubuntu on a large sample on computers, and not even the same sample of computers, but it's my opinion that Kubuntu sucks massively more than Ubuntu. You might want to try Ubuntu on your computer(s) because that might just work better, or, if you really hate GNOME, you should really try Mepis. It's KDE, it automatically installs all the proprietary stuff, and the new 6.0 Alpha is based off Ubuntu. As I've said before, Mepis is a better Kubuntu than Kubuntu. You should try it, it'll probably work better for you than Kubuntu.
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
Wifi is a pain (if you device is even supported, many are not), application pool is limited, it's slow, it bloated, it's buggy... maybe Microsoft made it. :D
Look to Xandros, or stick with windows. Oh, and using Ubuntu on your computer is like building an abacus to do addition. It's not even worth the effort to get it right.
And besides, if you were a club member, you have alumni privileges ad infinitum.
Go ahead and get your money back -- or would you prefer simply to complain?
> What can Mandriva Linux 2006 mean for home users? what is mandriva? just another one windows like OS linux for peoples who can't use their brains and hands as well as slakeware users