Hah, I know you want to paint me as a tentacle of Rush Limbaugh, I'll ignore your first blurb. I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make there.
Next, hurricanes are expected to be stronger because of warmer surface temperatures, otherwise known as El Nino, doesn't have anything to do with global warming, it's a naturally occuring cycle. These scientists will tell you that. The more telling part of their comments:
Although we cannot say at present whether more or fewer hurricanes will occur in the future with global warming...
You see, there is no evidence that global warming influences the size of hurricanes. *bonk*
And in response to your last paragraph, despite the fact that it's based on your misunderstandings pointed out above, I'll tell you what we need to do: build stronger houses.;)
No no, this is exactly the same crap as "temperatures are increasing". You have to first point out that this is not naturally occuring, as is the case! CO2 levels fluctuate also, it's documented by soil composition, geologists can tell you the concentrations of CO2 at pretty much any point in history, and right now is not out of the ordinary.
I googled for this, it may not be science but I'm sure the source is credible:
So I think the fact that it is a naturally occuring phenomenon should necessitate that we don't try and "fix" it. As the old saying goes, if it aint broke...
I read a book called "Intellectual Morons" that went over every bit of junk science I care to read about, you wouldn't have read it also would you? Good read if anyone wants to know about junk science. (DDT and CFC both discussed in detail)
Actually Co2 concentrations in the atmosphere are almost 20% higher than they were 50 years ago. I would hardly call that 'changing very, very little'.
It is very little when you take into account a naturally occuring cycle, documented in geologic records.
Sunlight does not 'come in' during an aurora. And ozone is not created in them.
You do understand the point I'm trying to make. You are simply trying to discredit me. That site you link to says nothing to support your claim that ozone is not created inside of the aurora. At least I am willing to prefix my comments with "this is my speculation". You are saying things as if you think you're god himself, and you understand all of the complexities.
You see, your equation, to the layman makes it sound as though CFC floats around in the atmosphere for 120 years wreacking havoc and destruction. The way you insist that this proves that CFCs are atmospheric poison.
But you miss the entire point of my post, O3 breaks down very rapidly into O2. You CFC nuts are totally obscuring the facts.
Exactly. I feel the same way when I hear "the earth is hotter than it was 10 years ago". So what? I can come up with a half dozen possible explanations and I'm not even formally educated.
Earth comes closer and farther from the sun right in cycles, ham radio operators love this.
Solar storms
Increased volcanic activity
Ocean current cycles, more warm water where it matters
Atmospheric cycles
Differences in equipment used to measure the temperature in the last 10 years
Human error
Corrupt political interests
Furthermore, I hear a lot of people pointing at hurricanes lately as a result of global warming who don't even understand how a hurricane is formed. Warmer ocean water and cooler air. The claim with global warming is that the air is getting warmer. You can't have it both ways. You can't point at every natural disaster and blame it on global warming, it's nonsense, you will find more and more people start blaming weather phenomena around the world on America.
That website is wrong. I see no references to any research. Further down it even admits:
There is a lot to learn about the breakdown of ozone in the atmosphere. Warmer region, non polar depletion of ozone in particular is not properly understood.
So for the time being the "ozone hole" seems to be an Antarctic phenomena, but a less severe thinning of the ozone layer is pretty much a world-wide thing. How acute and important it will be in the future is not known.
Apparently this guy is using information gleaned 30 or 40 years ago. We have since learned a lot about ozone, and it has very very little to do with manmade particles.
Read further down for my more rational explanation of why there is a hole over antarctica. It will make sense to you.
The parent has demonstrated the fact that most people have no idea what ozone is and how it's produced. Politicians and environmentalists really harp on this for effect, because they can say things that people can't immediately tell are false.
Almost all the ozone in the atmosphere is produced from the sun. Ozone has a very short half-life, it quickly decays into oxygen. Sending a CFC balloon into the atmosphere (I saw that on an episode of GI Joe as a kid) may destroy a quantity of ozone, but it would probably regenerate to its previous levels within a few hours. The only thing humans can do to reduce ozone is to steal all the oxygen, or convert it to solid matter (metal oxides and what not). Fact is concentrations of CO2 and O2 change very, very little.
So to answer your question poster, I speculate the reason for the hole over the antarctic is because it doesn't get enough direct sunlight, you can actually see the sunlight coming in at the Aurora Borealis, it never makes it to the upper region of the poles because it is traveling at a more acute angle, penetrating much longer distances of atmosphere as it comes in. I bet the concentrations of ozone in the aurora are very high because of this.
There isn't a whole lot of it actually. There is probably more tonnage in rocks floating around the planet than man-made debris. I don't know where that rumor started, all the man-made stuff is huge, huge empty tanks the ones you can see from the ground. All of them can be tracked with ground observation. Smaller stuff doesn't go that high.
I think somebody needs to develop an ion engine for micro-satellites, then universities may be able to afford rockets like the spacex falcon1 which puts their satellite into low-earth orbit, where it uses the ion engine to build up its speed for escape velocity. Perhaps this is the next "killer app" for these private space enthusiasts. So far JPL is the only place to find a highly efficient ion engine. They just came up with a high efficiency, high-power design for project prometheus. Ion engine micro-satellite, watch for them.
Probably because one does a flyby while it shoots a bullet into the comet, meaning it can fly directly to it, the other has to match velocity with the comet as it's coming around the sun, which is harder to do with a limited fuel supply.
Oh you heard that mercury poisoning commercial on the radio didn't you? I fucking hate that commercial. Some creepy lady telling me I'm stupid, basically.
What did you eat for breakfast this morning? How big is your penis? Do you even remember the first question, you fucking retard? There are BABIES OUT THERE
*DIEING!!!!* OF MERCURY POISONING! Don't you CARE!!!!???? What are you doing about it!!!???? Send your donations to Save the Babies,, P.O. Box 666 Tulsa, OK 30502
You'd be surprised how many people don't realize that a scientific paper has an unknown probability of being wrong. They think all science is factual because it is based on observable events. Nevermind the radical skepticists, the observable facts don't always explain the whole story.
The tiny millimeter wave radars used in these vehicles of the future could be utilized to build a guided missile. They typically have around a 100 meter range, maybe up to 300 if it was detecting an object the size of a jumbo jet. That's enough to home in on the target given adequate aiming, same as most shoulder launched missiles, such as the stinger. I'm interested in these devices for my own use, more toys to add on to my R/C helicopter:)
You can go around thinking that because something was obtained scientifically it is a fact, but you fail to understand what science truly is. It's a system, the best we know, of establishing a common knowledge. Many people would LOVE to get their bit in, some manage to do so when it is not warranted, even when common sense will tell you otherwise, to further their personal ambitions, political agenda, financial interest, whatever.
Hah, don't go turning the tables on me dude, you are the one that hates everything. I'm not trying to convert you to some ideology, you obviously don't even recognize my ideology, I'm not a Christian, I explained it to you with the Einstein quote. Ideally you would like me to join with you and start hating all religions, especially Muslims and Christians. Right? I guess my ideology is to hold people accountable for crimes against humanity, bring them to justice, let things take their course, and each person is free to develop his or her own sense of spirituality, whether it belongs to the realm of organized religion or not.
You don't understand what logic is. You have not applied a shred of logic to anything you've said so far. I am not going to go back and count the number of lies and hyperbole's you've stated. Wherever you get your FACTS from has a questionable sense of ethics.
Who knows which persecuted people you claim to be. Funny that you think I should know based on some arbitrary number, 900 years. Are you Sudanese? Serbian? What other groups am I leaving out? Lets play 20 questions. Are you still being persecuted?
and it was you rednecks that said 'God created Einstein, not the other way round.' It was the antisemetism inherent in christians that led you to hate him and other thinkerslike him in the western world for revolutionizing our entire outlook on the universe, just like you denied Darwinian Theory (and still do).
I don't know what you're talking about here, who are the rednecks? I'll tell you who hates who today though, the Atheists hate Einstein for being the biggest skeptic of quantum mechanics, because it was their free ride to the primordial goo hypothesis being accepted as fact. I say to hell with the lot of you, you're just two bickering factions in a stupid argument. I can see you've got your bag of facts ot pull from all made up, skeptics are only of value if they're on your side.
Yes, sugar IS bad for you. That is because it has short-chain carbohydrates that are burned off as raw heat in the Krebs Tricarboxylic Acid cycle quickly and ineffieciently and less is converted to chemical energy required for muscles/bodily functions etc.
Oh is that why? See I was told that it was because it raises your insulin levels, and eventually the insulin levels stay higher and you store more fat, while complex carbohydrates are needed to keep insulin at balanced levels. I don't see how you leap from sugar being less efficient to it being unhealthy, even though we've been eating sucrose for thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of years. Oh, you want me to be impressed and just take your word for it, right? That's what others tend to do. See if you were SMART you would already know sugar is bad for you! Throw away all your sugary products! (that's what the headlines would say)
It's not hyperbole, it's a fact.
You know someone told me global warming was a fact the other day. It's fact! If you were smart you would KNOW THAT! Oh, and Jesus walked the earth, you should KNOW THAT TOO!
You're full of shit, if you divide the estimated number (even the outrageously high estimates) of people killed in Iraq since the Iraq war started, it comes nowhere close to the number of days we've been in Iraq * 1000. Oh you're taking a figure from the very first day of the war when we killed thousands of Iraqi army, right? Or the first day of an assault on Fallujah. You use so-called facts like a kid uses a big stick to beat other kids over the head.
So go ahead and be pessimistic about everything. The internet? Just a bunch of stupid fiber optic cables, worthless piles of junk. Space exploration? Just a bunch of stupid old men, they really want to blow up the world behind your back. World peace? An illusion inspired by stupid religious people like Ghandi, crap talk meant to strengthen the evil Muslims who plot to kill everybody. Freedom? Same thing. Hahaha, it's been fun.
Science is not a religion. Only an ignorant person would say such a thing. Science is the very antithesis of religion. Science is based on the scientific method, which involves observation, hypothesis, proof, experiment etc. Religion is about blind assumption (faith), and, to a mind tempered by science, ANY kind of blind faith is inherently dangerous.
You see, you sound like a religious nut the way you talk about science. It is not the antithesis of religion. There is this cult among scientists, politicians, and intellectual morons like yourself, you go with faith in anything a so-called scientists tells you, the ones being broadcast by the mass media, for political reasons. It's right there next to religion. I can't believe you never once thought that perhaps money and political interests have corrupted some scientists. Sell your car man, start riding your bike to work. Dont turn on the AC. I read the other day about how sugar is bad for you.
Listen to yourself, prophetic madman. Iraqi's don't die by the thousands at the hands of Americans soldiers or terrorists, perhaps of natural causes. You're very fond of the hyperbole I can tell.
As for me, I'm not a religious person so you can quit with the religious defamation. I'm only insulted by the fact that you assume we don't care about a few "rednecks". My "redneck" cousin is over there killing terrorists. Funny to see you nutty foreigners have already branded this war a loss. Have YOU read the news lately? Iraqi constitution, citizens voting in masses, Al Sadr army fighting insurgents, all that? Perhaps that's not what the French media is writing about. You are French, aren't you?
After talking to you for a while a favorite quote comes to mind that I think expresses my dissatisfaction with your intelligence:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
-Einstein, March 24, 1954
Like I said earler, try and see things with a more positive light. It'll make you a better person.
So is this what the religion of science is teaching these days? Destroy the other religions because they're evil?
When is the last time you checked the facts on any of the so-called research that guides you in life? You've been spouting rubbish trying to convince me that the entire nation of Islam is stupid and evil. I tend to think you'll be proven wrong when Iraq comes out of the oven smelling like pie.
As Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said after the attack on Pearl Harbor "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
You're wrong about that. Iranians are highly educated, better than many european countries. Check your facts, I think you are underestimating Iranians.
intelligently conducted warfare, targeting the REAL enemy (The religion itself, not the people or the race) is the answer
This is one of these senseless things I'm talking about. You are completely irrational. You can't target a religion, besides you demonstrate an unnatural hatred of all religions. What you totally fail to recognize is that it is the actions of a few people, and you can hold people accountable for things, you can't hold a religion accountable for anything.
Which is what? That Jesus saves sinners and I need to kill Jews or whoever to avenge him and achieve favor with god? No thanks. I don't believe in taking a life for any reason, least of all some sick book written by deranged maniacs with explicit intent to spread malice towards any group of people who choose not to follow their ways.
No, that is certainly not looking at things from a positive angle. That is some sick twisted shit. Try and purge thought like that from your head. Plenty of Muslims over there just want to grow food on their land, raise their children to be decent people, and pray to their god 5 times a day. Declaring war on their religion is some fucked up shit, you might as well declare war on a race, or a language.
Well it looks like you're back to your senseless crap talk. You really don't give people enough credit, freedom of information is what is lacking in these countries, so what if terrorists post videos of themselves cutting people's heads off on the internet, so long as people know what the other side is saying. "bible hate-book thing" oh that makes you sound intelligent. You have a very strange outlook, it's as if you've been locked in a basement your whole life, you aught to try looking at things from a positive angle for a change.
Slashdot Mirror
Go to hell. Oh, now I've really done it.
Next, hurricanes are expected to be stronger because of warmer surface temperatures, otherwise known as El Nino, doesn't have anything to do with global warming, it's a naturally occuring cycle. These scientists will tell you that. The more telling part of their comments:
You see, there is no evidence that global warming influences the size of hurricanes. *bonk*
And in response to your last paragraph, despite the fact that it's based on your misunderstandings pointed out above, I'll tell you what we need to do: build stronger houses. ;)
I googled for this, it may not be science but I'm sure the source is credible:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec97/8774397 99.Es.r.html
So I think the fact that it is a naturally occuring phenomenon should necessitate that we don't try and "fix" it. As the old saying goes, if it aint broke...
I read a book called "Intellectual Morons" that went over every bit of junk science I care to read about, you wouldn't have read it also would you? Good read if anyone wants to know about junk science. (DDT and CFC both discussed in detail)
Ozone is a fucking free radical you fucking retard. God damn. Keep trying to scare people with wikipedia entries that people like you wrote, dimwit.
It is very little when you take into account a naturally occuring cycle, documented in geologic records.
Sunlight does not 'come in' during an aurora. And ozone is not created in them.
You do understand the point I'm trying to make. You are simply trying to discredit me. That site you link to says nothing to support your claim that ozone is not created inside of the aurora. At least I am willing to prefix my comments with "this is my speculation". You are saying things as if you think you're god himself, and you understand all of the complexities.
Keep trying.
But you miss the entire point of my post, O3 breaks down very rapidly into O2. You CFC nuts are totally obscuring the facts.
Furthermore, I hear a lot of people pointing at hurricanes lately as a result of global warming who don't even understand how a hurricane is formed. Warmer ocean water and cooler air. The claim with global warming is that the air is getting warmer. You can't have it both ways. You can't point at every natural disaster and blame it on global warming, it's nonsense, you will find more and more people start blaming weather phenomena around the world on America.
Apparently this guy is using information gleaned 30 or 40 years ago. We have since learned a lot about ozone, and it has very very little to do with manmade particles.
Read further down for my more rational explanation of why there is a hole over antarctica. It will make sense to you.
Almost all the ozone in the atmosphere is produced from the sun. Ozone has a very short half-life, it quickly decays into oxygen. Sending a CFC balloon into the atmosphere (I saw that on an episode of GI Joe as a kid) may destroy a quantity of ozone, but it would probably regenerate to its previous levels within a few hours. The only thing humans can do to reduce ozone is to steal all the oxygen, or convert it to solid matter (metal oxides and what not). Fact is concentrations of CO2 and O2 change very, very little.
So to answer your question poster, I speculate the reason for the hole over the antarctic is because it doesn't get enough direct sunlight, you can actually see the sunlight coming in at the Aurora Borealis, it never makes it to the upper region of the poles because it is traveling at a more acute angle, penetrating much longer distances of atmosphere as it comes in. I bet the concentrations of ozone in the aurora are very high because of this.
There isn't a whole lot of it actually. There is probably more tonnage in rocks floating around the planet than man-made debris. I don't know where that rumor started, all the man-made stuff is huge, huge empty tanks the ones you can see from the ground. All of them can be tracked with ground observation. Smaller stuff doesn't go that high.
I think somebody needs to develop an ion engine for micro-satellites, then universities may be able to afford rockets like the spacex falcon1 which puts their satellite into low-earth orbit, where it uses the ion engine to build up its speed for escape velocity. Perhaps this is the next "killer app" for these private space enthusiasts. So far JPL is the only place to find a highly efficient ion engine. They just came up with a high efficiency, high-power design for project prometheus. Ion engine micro-satellite, watch for them.
Probably because one does a flyby while it shoots a bullet into the comet, meaning it can fly directly to it, the other has to match velocity with the comet as it's coming around the sun, which is harder to do with a limited fuel supply.
Someone has found a way to blame the Americans for hurricane season. Bravo gentlemen, Bravo.
You'd be surprised how many people don't realize that a scientific paper has an unknown probability of being wrong. They think all science is factual because it is based on observable events. Nevermind the radical skepticists, the observable facts don't always explain the whole story.
The tiny millimeter wave radars used in these vehicles of the future could be utilized to build a guided missile. They typically have around a 100 meter range, maybe up to 300 if it was detecting an object the size of a jumbo jet. That's enough to home in on the target given adequate aiming, same as most shoulder launched missiles, such as the stinger. I'm interested in these devices for my own use, more toys to add on to my R/C helicopter :)
Read up on the philosophy of Descartes: http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/d/descarte.htm
You can go around thinking that because something was obtained scientifically it is a fact, but you fail to understand what science truly is. It's a system, the best we know, of establishing a common knowledge. Many people would LOVE to get their bit in, some manage to do so when it is not warranted, even when common sense will tell you otherwise, to further their personal ambitions, political agenda, financial interest, whatever.
Hah, don't go turning the tables on me dude, you are the one that hates everything. I'm not trying to convert you to some ideology, you obviously don't even recognize my ideology, I'm not a Christian, I explained it to you with the Einstein quote. Ideally you would like me to join with you and start hating all religions, especially Muslims and Christians. Right? I guess my ideology is to hold people accountable for crimes against humanity, bring them to justice, let things take their course, and each person is free to develop his or her own sense of spirituality, whether it belongs to the realm of organized religion or not.
You don't understand what logic is. You have not applied a shred of logic to anything you've said so far. I am not going to go back and count the number of lies and hyperbole's you've stated. Wherever you get your FACTS from has a questionable sense of ethics.
Who knows which persecuted people you claim to be. Funny that you think I should know based on some arbitrary number, 900 years. Are you Sudanese? Serbian? What other groups am I leaving out? Lets play 20 questions. Are you still being persecuted?
and it was you rednecks that said 'God created Einstein, not the other way round.' It was the antisemetism inherent in christians that led you to hate him and other thinkerslike him in the western world for revolutionizing our entire outlook on the universe, just like you denied Darwinian Theory (and still do).
I don't know what you're talking about here, who are the rednecks? I'll tell you who hates who today though, the Atheists hate Einstein for being the biggest skeptic of quantum mechanics, because it was their free ride to the primordial goo hypothesis being accepted as fact. I say to hell with the lot of you, you're just two bickering factions in a stupid argument. I can see you've got your bag of facts ot pull from all made up, skeptics are only of value if they're on your side.
Yes, sugar IS bad for you. That is because it has short-chain carbohydrates that are burned off as raw heat in the Krebs Tricarboxylic Acid cycle quickly and ineffieciently and less is converted to chemical energy required for muscles/bodily functions etc.
Oh is that why? See I was told that it was because it raises your insulin levels, and eventually the insulin levels stay higher and you store more fat, while complex carbohydrates are needed to keep insulin at balanced levels. I don't see how you leap from sugar being less efficient to it being unhealthy, even though we've been eating sucrose for thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of years. Oh, you want me to be impressed and just take your word for it, right? That's what others tend to do. See if you were SMART you would already know sugar is bad for you! Throw away all your sugary products! (that's what the headlines would say)
It's not hyperbole, it's a fact.
You know someone told me global warming was a fact the other day. It's fact! If you were smart you would KNOW THAT! Oh, and Jesus walked the earth, you should KNOW THAT TOO!
You're full of shit, if you divide the estimated number (even the outrageously high estimates) of people killed in Iraq since the Iraq war started, it comes nowhere close to the number of days we've been in Iraq * 1000. Oh you're taking a figure from the very first day of the war when we killed thousands of Iraqi army, right? Or the first day of an assault on Fallujah. You use so-called facts like a kid uses a big stick to beat other kids over the head.
So go ahead and be pessimistic about everything. The internet? Just a bunch of stupid fiber optic cables, worthless piles of junk. Space exploration? Just a bunch of stupid old men, they really want to blow up the world behind your back. World peace? An illusion inspired by stupid religious people like Ghandi, crap talk meant to strengthen the evil Muslims who plot to kill everybody. Freedom? Same thing. Hahaha, it's been fun.
Hey check this out, here is some more science:Science is not a religion. Only an ignorant person would say such a thing. Science is the very antithesis of religion. Science is based on the scientific method, which involves observation, hypothesis, proof, experiment etc. Religion is about blind assumption (faith), and, to a mind tempered by science, ANY kind of blind faith is inherently dangerous.
You see, you sound like a religious nut the way you talk about science. It is not the antithesis of religion. There is this cult among scientists, politicians, and intellectual morons like yourself, you go with faith in anything a so-called scientists tells you, the ones being broadcast by the mass media, for political reasons. It's right there next to religion. I can't believe you never once thought that perhaps money and political interests have corrupted some scientists. Sell your car man, start riding your bike to work. Dont turn on the AC. I read the other day about how sugar is bad for you.
Listen to yourself, prophetic madman. Iraqi's don't die by the thousands at the hands of Americans soldiers or terrorists, perhaps of natural causes. You're very fond of the hyperbole I can tell.
As for me, I'm not a religious person so you can quit with the religious defamation. I'm only insulted by the fact that you assume we don't care about a few "rednecks". My "redneck" cousin is over there killing terrorists. Funny to see you nutty foreigners have already branded this war a loss. Have YOU read the news lately? Iraqi constitution, citizens voting in masses, Al Sadr army fighting insurgents, all that? Perhaps that's not what the French media is writing about. You are French, aren't you?
After talking to you for a while a favorite quote comes to mind that I think expresses my dissatisfaction with your intelligence:
Like I said earler, try and see things with a more positive light. It'll make you a better person.
When is the last time you checked the facts on any of the so-called research that guides you in life? You've been spouting rubbish trying to convince me that the entire nation of Islam is stupid and evil. I tend to think you'll be proven wrong when Iraq comes out of the oven smelling like pie.
Live your own life fool.
What the fuck is a CommieAnarchistLibertarian?
As Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said after the attack on Pearl Harbor "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
What's lacking in these countries is education
You're wrong about that. Iranians are highly educated, better than many european countries. Check your facts, I think you are underestimating Iranians.
intelligently conducted warfare, targeting the REAL enemy (The religion itself, not the people or the race) is the answer
This is one of these senseless things I'm talking about. You are completely irrational. You can't target a religion, besides you demonstrate an unnatural hatred of all religions. What you totally fail to recognize is that it is the actions of a few people, and you can hold people accountable for things, you can't hold a religion accountable for anything.
Which is what? That Jesus saves sinners and I need to kill Jews or whoever to avenge him and achieve favor with god? No thanks. I don't believe in taking a life for any reason, least of all some sick book written by deranged maniacs with explicit intent to spread malice towards any group of people who choose not to follow their ways.
No, that is certainly not looking at things from a positive angle. That is some sick twisted shit. Try and purge thought like that from your head. Plenty of Muslims over there just want to grow food on their land, raise their children to be decent people, and pray to their god 5 times a day. Declaring war on their religion is some fucked up shit, you might as well declare war on a race, or a language.
Well it looks like you're back to your senseless crap talk. You really don't give people enough credit, freedom of information is what is lacking in these countries, so what if terrorists post videos of themselves cutting people's heads off on the internet, so long as people know what the other side is saying. "bible hate-book thing" oh that makes you sound intelligent. You have a very strange outlook, it's as if you've been locked in a basement your whole life, you aught to try looking at things from a positive angle for a change.