So kodak stopped making black and white photo paper, huh? Eh, not really a show stopper. I mean, any good digital camera (even some bad ones) can do black-and-white pictures now, without the hassel of a darkroom. Nostalgic, but I think Kodak made a clean move.
Besides, if you're into taking black-and-white pictures, the process of taking the shots hasn't changed. A digital SLR works basically the same as a manual camera. How you get the picture out of the camera has changed, but the hobby of black-and-white photography has not died.
I didn't prove your point. I said it should run fine on that machine. So if yer experiencing problems, it's because you got a problem. Given that the machine should run modestly well with XP, it should be clear that there are other issues going on. Instead of playing the zombie anti-microsoft gig, a little effort might have proved fruitful instead.
"WTF is your problem? XP does less with the same hardware compared to 2k."
So a machine that runs great on Win2000, should run equally great on XP?
Hot-damn! Where's my old Apple-II and 386! I can't wait to load up HL2 and UT2k4! Office2k3 of course, and since there's no reason why these dust collectors should be outdated, I'm gonna run a DoD gaming server off my ol' P1!
Oh man, I need to call up my buddy and tell him to bring over his PS2 games! My NES has just been a paperweight these past years, but now it's gonna be a HALO box! WOoo!!!!
"These are 2Ghz + drafting stations w/ @ least 512MB RAM. The difference is very noticible."
Well, aside from everyone knowing that XP sucks up nearly all that RAM just running (if left untweaked in base), you should not be noticing major problems on a machine of that spec. We've got numerous machines and laptops of that build at work, and performance differences have been marginal at worst. Nothing to get sore about. For those that really suffered, we threw in some extra RAM, and experienced no further problems. Of course, we did realize that any of the slight sluggishness, and any of the problems that may come up in the future, would be due to having outdated equipment.
SP1 for Server 2k3 has issues connecting to Win2000 machines, especially to software applications on those machines that use DCOM, IIS, and the RPC server. I'd be willing to bet that once 2000 drops off the list of currently supported products, you will experience further problems with your Server2k3-Win2000 setup.
While I agree that this is partly strategy on MS's part to get people to buy more stuff (the goal of any company), but this is also the state of software evolution.
Microsoft cannot afford to support older versions of software. This is why Win95, Win98, and WinNT are not supported anymore. The company has to move on, and as new technologies come out and are created, it becomes harder and harder, to the point of being impossible, for MS to make these new features work with legacy OS's. Microsoft has to point itself in one direction, and you can either follow along and upgrade every 2-4 years, or you can accept that you're going to have problems in the future and no one will be around to support you.
I'm fairly certain that Apple does not have a staff of employees working each day to provide new updates for the Apple-I platform.
I've been working in the corporate/business/enterprise realm for a couple years now, extensively involved in the upgrade and deployment of software and enterprise solutions, and it's been my experience that the reason companies remain bogged in older versions of Windows, has very little to do with the popularity of the current and/or newer version.
The reasons I've found for companies not moving on are usually: lack of company support for the upgrade, inability to do an overhall ATM, lack of funding, lack of knowledge regarding the benifits of upgrading, low company desire to move to a new version (because the current version is satisfactory), version must be approved by testing (big reason), and lastly, because of zombie anti-Microsoft hype which scares upper management needlessly.
The lack of upgrades appears to be mostly unrelated to the actual new version itself, but more the state of the corporate/business world, and society's own misgivings.
"Ok, I'll give you that one, but there's no way for anyone to possibly know that's their actually motivation. As far as even remotely comparing our free speech to china, you're on crack."
Maybe so. However, I think the point of the matter is that a lot of Americans try to apply American idealology to this situation, which while founded on our end, is as you say "on crack" on the Chinese side.
While this latest "revelation" by Apple has both good and bad possible outcomes...I'm beginning to wonder if the leaders of Apple have some communist genes running through their blood...
And people say Microsoft is totalitarianist...At least Microsoft lets me run on whatever hardware I want...(at least, to all humanly possible degrees)
Well, put it this way. You gotta get yer foot in the door first, before you can change things.
Not to vendicate anything, but you have to look at this from the perspective of the people. In America, we censor things after the fact. In China, the government directly censors things before the fact.
Some people just don't understand how lucky they are to live in such a free country.
Instead of going "Wow, I have food and clothes and I can have a job and a home and a wife and my own car and stuff," they complain.
If you people don't like it here, LEAVE. America is a free country. Guess what? You have the right to leave if you want! You don't get that in many other countries! So if you don't like it here, get lost! Stop bringing us down with all yer whining!
Yer complaining about the color of paint on the walls, when there are people in other countries who don't even have the right to dream about having walls to paint!
The American government is what you get for living in America! If you don't like it, you can either shut yer mouth and try to change it (btw, you have that right in this country, instead of being shot for disagreeing) or you can get lost. If you don't like the American government, go find another country with a government that is more free, and which doesn't have any presence to "be in your head." I think there's a few islands around Antarctica that haven't been colonized yet.
"So much for "American" values of freedom and democracy abroad!"
Wow. I didn't know Microsoft was part of the American political system. Hmm...
I must have missed the part in political science about it being the role of a global software corporation to actively promote or deny the social system it is in.
Man, you are so enlightening my mind! I had no idea Microsoft was supposed to be promoting democracy! I thought they just made software...
Conquest! Glory! Crush the 3rd world countries into submission!
What's the matter? Don't have an army that can beat us? Screw you! Your oil is mine! Your land is MINE! Your people are MINE!
Don't like it? Tough! You are now part of the American Empire! Bow down and pray we don't raise your hovels to the ground!
No more pansy diplomacy! If one of you so much as throws a rock at our country, we shall burn you from your lands in the hellfire of American might! Let your sands be turned to glass! Let your people be slaves to the American citizen!
Like Alexander before, we shall crush our foes and conqure this planet! They'll like us when we win, and when we win, there shall be no more countries holding us ransom for oil!
Don't like it? Tough! Be lucky this is a reality there but for the grace of God! A couple hundred years ago, if these dorks tried to pull this shyt on a powerful country, they'd be smeared from existence. Why should we think differently now? There's only one damn world and it's too small for everyone!
Rise the strongest and fall the weakest! For my ears shall hear no sound of mercy from my lips as my sandle trods you underfoot!
I don't think this latest tid-bit should be shocking to anyone. The Chinese have been doing this since they were first discovered by other races.
The Chinese, for whatever reason, struggle greatly to maintain a strictly controlled identity and culture. It one way, you can understand this because they have a huge population spread out over a huge country that has many, many different countries bordering them, all trying to trade and interact with them. If there were no controls, China would become a giant meltingpot mess like the US, which no cultural identity and a fading pride. On the other hand, the Chinese people have so much to offer and so many wonderful things for the world to see and do and hear, but we will never get to because of the laws. It's a double-edged sword.
China (as well as many other countries held in the same government style) fails to see that this kind of control is like a clamp around an axel of a wheel. The clamp keeps the wheel in line, but if you clamp too hard, the wheel doesn't spin so easily and starts to have problems. You can still have the clamp, but just loosen it up a bit and the wheel spins nicely and stays in line.
I don't believe that, if these censorships were removed, the Chinese would go balistic. There's too much ingrained social structure. Those in power could still be in power, but with a little release, their country could bloom into a great thing. If you try to control everything, then you end up controlling nothing but the control itself. Everything else fades away. In essence, China is killing itself by trying to keep itself.
As for Microsoft, everyone trying to play the "There goes Microsoft again" card, just needs to shut up. When you deploy a company/product in another country, it is in no way unusual nor unexpected to conform to that country's beliefs and laws. If you have to change your product to make it sell, you do. If you make cars that drive on the left, and you sell to a country that drives on the right, you change your design for that country. If you sell to a country that doesn't allow a word to be in a product, you remove that word.
I think it's a good thing that Microsoft is not trying to start an ethtical/racial/political war here. They have altered their product for the Chinese market to conform with that market. This is not strange, this is not Microsoft unique.
If you're having a problem with the human-rights issues in China, Microsoft should not be your first step for a gripe.
Yeah, this report definately sounds like a smoke-screen tactic. These ARE the same problems that have forced 2 changes in launch date and more work. Last time I checked, we're still looking at late July early August for a launch.
Out of nearly 700 people the shuttle has put into orbit, 14 have died. That's a 2-percent fatality rate. Multiply that a few times over, and you've got the fatality rate for driving a car.
Now really, how can you be so surprised by this? Why are you so upset at this 2-percent fatality rate? Can you think of no other jobs on the planet with the same (and much worse) fatality rates?
Drawing a blank? Okay, here's one example:
Crab-boat fishermen. Dozens of them die every single year. They drag in a huge profit for the corporations, and the only thing humanity gets out of this loss of life and corporate lust.....is crab-legs.
With the space shuttle you've got a group of people riding a highly complex machine into an environment they know is dangerous, they've benifited humanity and scientific progress in countless ways, they do it for the betterment of humanity, not just for profit, at a success rate higher than many other dangerous jobs, and you've got the audacity to complain about it?
It's surprising how many people are just appalled by the "loss of life", not to mention money, in the two shuttle disasters.
Let's review:
1. Out of over 107 missions, into a region of existance we know little about, with a machine more complex than most other aircraft, with a crew riding thousands of tons of explosives, we've lost "only" 14 people, in 2 disasters. (That's a less than 2-percent failure ratio.)
2. There have been over 14-thousand fatalities in the airline industry since its start. (Over a thousand deaths in the past 3 years alone.)
3. In comparison to the two known non-US space-flight programs in operation on this planet, the Russian space-flight program with its current Soyuz ship (older than the space shuttle) has been plagued with more problems than death, and the Chinese, although modestly successful, are still back in the days of the Mercury and Gemini missions, flinging people into orbit in capsules with nothing else to do.
4. Despite widespread lack of knowledge on the public's part, the US space program has had wide-spanning benifits to the human race.
5. The number of countries capable of supporting a continual human space-flight program, are few. The number that can do so, and then afford to advance further to make it a process that is safe and as common as airline flights, comes to single digits.
6. The space shuttle remains the only solution available for providing support and maintenance to satellites. It is also the only platform able to move between orbits and locations, and actively interact with other space-based systems.
7. The money spent advancing space technologies, not only benifits us, but goes into our economy.
8. The government spends far more than the entire NASA budget that, without sounding like a hippie, have done little to advance our standing in the world and which have a deadly outcome. If NASA wants to spend millions and billions developing technology that makes our lives better and expands our knowledge, what's the problem? Money burned is bad, but money burned towards a good intention is better than money burned for naught.
9. Do I need to continue?
We do pretty much all our "poking around space" without the space shuttle or ISS. Most of the "poking around space" is handled quite well by our satellite and ground-based observations.
The space shuttle and ISS perform local space observations and tasks, most of which don't usually require looking away from Earth. Speed, is irrelevant.
And you would replace the shuttle with what? I was unaware of any replacement solutions sitting in hangers ready to go.
Our human spaceflight program is getting old, the Russian program is scary, and....and...and that's it.
We have no standing alternatives. Every project being worked on to replace the shuttle is still in infancy. Many of the most advanced materials and engineering required for these new projects, did not come around in the 80's. What alternative would you have them use?
With such a complex machine, with lives at stake, with the entire program at stake, with billions of eyes watching, YOU would have yer hand hovering over the "abort launch" button too, buddy.
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So kodak stopped making black and white photo paper, huh? Eh, not really a show stopper. I mean, any good digital camera (even some bad ones) can do black-and-white pictures now, without the hassel of a darkroom. Nostalgic, but I think Kodak made a clean move.
Besides, if you're into taking black-and-white pictures, the process of taking the shots hasn't changed. A digital SLR works basically the same as a manual camera. How you get the picture out of the camera has changed, but the hobby of black-and-white photography has not died.
I didn't prove your point. I said it should run fine on that machine. So if yer experiencing problems, it's because you got a problem. Given that the machine should run modestly well with XP, it should be clear that there are other issues going on. Instead of playing the zombie anti-microsoft gig, a little effort might have proved fruitful instead.
"WTF is your problem? XP does less with the same hardware compared to 2k."
So a machine that runs great on Win2000, should run equally great on XP?
Hot-damn! Where's my old Apple-II and 386! I can't wait to load up HL2 and UT2k4! Office2k3 of course, and since there's no reason why these dust collectors should be outdated, I'm gonna run a DoD gaming server off my ol' P1!
Oh man, I need to call up my buddy and tell him to bring over his PS2 games! My NES has just been a paperweight these past years, but now it's gonna be a HALO box! WOoo!!!!
"These are 2Ghz + drafting stations w/ @ least 512MB RAM. The difference is very noticible."
Well, aside from everyone knowing that XP sucks up nearly all that RAM just running (if left untweaked in base), you should not be noticing major problems on a machine of that spec. We've got numerous machines and laptops of that build at work, and performance differences have been marginal at worst. Nothing to get sore about. For those that really suffered, we threw in some extra RAM, and experienced no further problems. Of course, we did realize that any of the slight sluggishness, and any of the problems that may come up in the future, would be due to having outdated equipment.
The response to "Aw, XP is sucking up all my RAM now that I've upgraded" is:
RTFM and the bloody requirements! You were warned beforehand, so don't be surprised.
SP1 for Server 2k3 has issues connecting to Win2000 machines, especially to software applications on those machines that use DCOM, IIS, and the RPC server. I'd be willing to bet that once 2000 drops off the list of currently supported products, you will experience further problems with your Server2k3-Win2000 setup.
While I agree that this is partly strategy on MS's part to get people to buy more stuff (the goal of any company), but this is also the state of software evolution.
Microsoft cannot afford to support older versions of software. This is why Win95, Win98, and WinNT are not supported anymore. The company has to move on, and as new technologies come out and are created, it becomes harder and harder, to the point of being impossible, for MS to make these new features work with legacy OS's. Microsoft has to point itself in one direction, and you can either follow along and upgrade every 2-4 years, or you can accept that you're going to have problems in the future and no one will be around to support you.
I'm fairly certain that Apple does not have a staff of employees working each day to provide new updates for the Apple-I platform.
I've been working in the corporate/business/enterprise realm for a couple years now, extensively involved in the upgrade and deployment of software and enterprise solutions, and it's been my experience that the reason companies remain bogged in older versions of Windows, has very little to do with the popularity of the current and/or newer version.
The reasons I've found for companies not moving on are usually: lack of company support for the upgrade, inability to do an overhall ATM, lack of funding, lack of knowledge regarding the benifits of upgrading, low company desire to move to a new version (because the current version is satisfactory), version must be approved by testing (big reason), and lastly, because of zombie anti-Microsoft hype which scares upper management needlessly.
The lack of upgrades appears to be mostly unrelated to the actual new version itself, but more the state of the corporate/business world, and society's own misgivings.
"Ok, I'll give you that one, but there's no way for anyone to possibly know that's their actually motivation. As far as even remotely comparing our free speech to china, you're on crack."
Maybe so. However, I think the point of the matter is that a lot of Americans try to apply American idealology to this situation, which while founded on our end, is as you say "on crack" on the Chinese side.
While this latest "revelation" by Apple has both good and bad possible outcomes...I'm beginning to wonder if the leaders of Apple have some communist genes running through their blood...
And people say Microsoft is totalitarianist...At least Microsoft lets me run on whatever hardware I want...(at least, to all humanly possible degrees)
Good point. They do, like many countries. but I'm not sure that's what is going on here or not.
Tangled by mistake. Don't worry about it.
Well, put it this way. You gotta get yer foot in the door first, before you can change things.
Not to vendicate anything, but you have to look at this from the perspective of the people. In America, we censor things after the fact. In China, the government directly censors things before the fact.
Complain complain complain...
Some people just don't understand how lucky they are to live in such a free country.
Instead of going "Wow, I have food and clothes and I can have a job and a home and a wife and my own car and stuff," they complain.
If you people don't like it here, LEAVE. America is a free country. Guess what? You have the right to leave if you want! You don't get that in many other countries! So if you don't like it here, get lost! Stop bringing us down with all yer whining!
Yer complaining about the color of paint on the walls, when there are people in other countries who don't even have the right to dream about having walls to paint!
The American government is what you get for living in America! If you don't like it, you can either shut yer mouth and try to change it (btw, you have that right in this country, instead of being shot for disagreeing) or you can get lost. If you don't like the American government, go find another country with a government that is more free, and which doesn't have any presence to "be in your head." I think there's a few islands around Antarctica that haven't been colonized yet.
"So much for "American" values of freedom and democracy abroad!"
Wow. I didn't know Microsoft was part of the American political system. Hmm...
I must have missed the part in political science about it being the role of a global software corporation to actively promote or deny the social system it is in.
Man, you are so enlightening my mind! I had no idea Microsoft was supposed to be promoting democracy! I thought they just made software...
Uh...Actually i think Microsoft has been "assimilated" here, dude. Microsoft is the one who conformed to be a tool of the Chinese.
You know what? Yer right!
Conquest! Glory! Crush the 3rd world countries into submission!
What's the matter? Don't have an army that can beat us? Screw you! Your oil is mine! Your land is MINE! Your people are MINE!
Don't like it? Tough! You are now part of the American Empire! Bow down and pray we don't raise your hovels to the ground!
No more pansy diplomacy! If one of you so much as throws a rock at our country, we shall burn you from your lands in the hellfire of American might! Let your sands be turned to glass! Let your people be slaves to the American citizen!
Like Alexander before, we shall crush our foes and conqure this planet! They'll like us when we win, and when we win, there shall be no more countries holding us ransom for oil!
Don't like it? Tough! Be lucky this is a reality there but for the grace of God! A couple hundred years ago, if these dorks tried to pull this shyt on a powerful country, they'd be smeared from existence. Why should we think differently now? There's only one damn world and it's too small for everyone!
Rise the strongest and fall the weakest! For my ears shall hear no sound of mercy from my lips as my sandle trods you underfoot!
I don't think this latest tid-bit should be shocking to anyone. The Chinese have been doing this since they were first discovered by other races.
The Chinese, for whatever reason, struggle greatly to maintain a strictly controlled identity and culture. It one way, you can understand this because they have a huge population spread out over a huge country that has many, many different countries bordering them, all trying to trade and interact with them. If there were no controls, China would become a giant meltingpot mess like the US, which no cultural identity and a fading pride. On the other hand, the Chinese people have so much to offer and so many wonderful things for the world to see and do and hear, but we will never get to because of the laws. It's a double-edged sword.
China (as well as many other countries held in the same government style) fails to see that this kind of control is like a clamp around an axel of a wheel. The clamp keeps the wheel in line, but if you clamp too hard, the wheel doesn't spin so easily and starts to have problems. You can still have the clamp, but just loosen it up a bit and the wheel spins nicely and stays in line.
I don't believe that, if these censorships were removed, the Chinese would go balistic. There's too much ingrained social structure. Those in power could still be in power, but with a little release, their country could bloom into a great thing. If you try to control everything, then you end up controlling nothing but the control itself. Everything else fades away. In essence, China is killing itself by trying to keep itself.
As for Microsoft, everyone trying to play the "There goes Microsoft again" card, just needs to shut up. When you deploy a company/product in another country, it is in no way unusual nor unexpected to conform to that country's beliefs and laws. If you have to change your product to make it sell, you do. If you make cars that drive on the left, and you sell to a country that drives on the right, you change your design for that country. If you sell to a country that doesn't allow a word to be in a product, you remove that word.
I think it's a good thing that Microsoft is not trying to start an ethtical/racial/political war here. They have altered their product for the Chinese market to conform with that market. This is not strange, this is not Microsoft unique.
If you're having a problem with the human-rights issues in China, Microsoft should not be your first step for a gripe.
Yeah, this report definately sounds like a smoke-screen tactic. These ARE the same problems that have forced 2 changes in launch date and more work. Last time I checked, we're still looking at late July early August for a launch.
Out of nearly 700 people the shuttle has put into orbit, 14 have died. That's a 2-percent fatality rate. Multiply that a few times over, and you've got the fatality rate for driving a car.
Now really, how can you be so surprised by this? Why are you so upset at this 2-percent fatality rate? Can you think of no other jobs on the planet with the same (and much worse) fatality rates?
Drawing a blank? Okay, here's one example:
Crab-boat fishermen. Dozens of them die every single year. They drag in a huge profit for the corporations, and the only thing humanity gets out of this loss of life and corporate lust.....is crab-legs.
With the space shuttle you've got a group of people riding a highly complex machine into an environment they know is dangerous, they've benifited humanity and scientific progress in countless ways, they do it for the betterment of humanity, not just for profit, at a success rate higher than many other dangerous jobs, and you've got the audacity to complain about it?
Take it to a 3rd world country. They'll show you.
It's surprising how many people are just appalled by the "loss of life", not to mention money, in the two shuttle disasters.
Let's review:
1. Out of over 107 missions, into a region of existance we know little about, with a machine more complex than most other aircraft, with a crew riding thousands of tons of explosives, we've lost "only" 14 people, in 2 disasters. (That's a less than 2-percent failure ratio.)
2. There have been over 14-thousand fatalities in the airline industry since its start. (Over a thousand deaths in the past 3 years alone.)
3. In comparison to the two known non-US space-flight programs in operation on this planet, the Russian space-flight program with its current Soyuz ship (older than the space shuttle) has been plagued with more problems than death, and the Chinese, although modestly successful, are still back in the days of the Mercury and Gemini missions, flinging people into orbit in capsules with nothing else to do.
4. Despite widespread lack of knowledge on the public's part, the US space program has had wide-spanning benifits to the human race.
5. The number of countries capable of supporting a continual human space-flight program, are few. The number that can do so, and then afford to advance further to make it a process that is safe and as common as airline flights, comes to single digits.
6. The space shuttle remains the only solution available for providing support and maintenance to satellites. It is also the only platform able to move between orbits and locations, and actively interact with other space-based systems.
7. The money spent advancing space technologies, not only benifits us, but goes into our economy.
8. The government spends far more than the entire NASA budget that, without sounding like a hippie, have done little to advance our standing in the world and which have a deadly outcome. If NASA wants to spend millions and billions developing technology that makes our lives better and expands our knowledge, what's the problem? Money burned is bad, but money burned towards a good intention is better than money burned for naught.
9. Do I need to continue?
We do pretty much all our "poking around space" without the space shuttle or ISS. Most of the "poking around space" is handled quite well by our satellite and ground-based observations.
The space shuttle and ISS perform local space observations and tasks, most of which don't usually require looking away from Earth. Speed, is irrelevant.
And you would replace the shuttle with what? I was unaware of any replacement solutions sitting in hangers ready to go.
Our human spaceflight program is getting old, the Russian program is scary, and....and...and that's it.
We have no standing alternatives. Every project being worked on to replace the shuttle is still in infancy. Many of the most advanced materials and engineering required for these new projects, did not come around in the 80's. What alternative would you have them use?
I could only hope they're being so cautious.
With such a complex machine, with lives at stake, with the entire program at stake, with billions of eyes watching, YOU would have yer hand hovering over the "abort launch" button too, buddy.
Oh look, another basher zombie. Someone get the net, he's fouling up the gene pool!