Well, my perspective is different than most. Many of the software types here seem to be employed developing relatively unimportant applications, the kind that perhaps can tolerate their idea of what is funny.
Yep, most of us are... we're well aware that there are jobs where putting an Easter Egg in the code would be grounds for dismissal and potentially a "very bad thing to do" anyway, and if we were employed in such jobs we wouldn't do it. I do think however that despite your claims of not being uptight, you really ARE being so in this case, because even though you've already admitted that your circumstances seem to be different to the majority of us, you nevertheless still claim that we shouldn't put easter eggs in our code.
I also don't like your assumption that we don't have what it takes to get a job with "significant responsibility" just because we put eggs in our code... that's like claiming someone who street races on the weekends shouldn't be a professional limousine driver for important people because he's not "responsible" behind a wheel. How he acts on the weekend should have NO bearing on how he drives the limo. In the same way, how we code on projects where it DOESN'T matter whether we have easter eggs should have NO bearing on whether we're considered for jobs where it does matter.
Guru Meditation is a great error message, but if we're looking at ancient Amiga history, nothing beats the Amiga Kickstart 1.2 Easter Egg. From the Workbench screen, hold down both alts, both shifts, F1 and then eject a disk - the title changes to "The Amiga - Born a Champion". Continue to hold the keys, click the left mouse button on the screen depth gadget and re-insert the disk - the title then changes to "We made Amiga, they fucked it up" (in reference to Commodore). Unfortunately, this was subtly changed to something "less offensive" by Workbench 1.3, which was the earliest version that most people saw.
Comments, no problem. Easter Eggs, no problem. Humorous variable names, problem... If you have variables named, "banana", "apple", "toad", "hedgehog" and "puppy", then it gets VERY confusing when you're trying to read/debug the code several years later. Certainly, most IDEs will let you rename variables later, and so you could just "clean up" easily, but then that kind of defeats the humour of having them there.
My rule for my own code is that if I can't debug it with a plain text editor (or by printing it on dead tree and reading it from there), then I haven't written it properly (generally I WILL make use of my IDE and compiler, but the point is that I don't HAVE to).
Maybe I've just been lucky, but every manager I've had since starting a "real" job (data-entry, internet cafe and fixing broken serial terminals were not real jobs) has been an ex-techie himself. My current boss did micro-controller programming for embedded devices before becoming a manager, and my boss before the current one did systems design and documentation.
Absolutely... a lot of people here are making comments along the lines of "the longer you code, the lower your quality gets"... I consider coding an Easter Egg to be a break AWAY from the regular coding, and it's as good as any other break, so then I can get back to the real code "refreshed and ready" after finishing the Egg.
I never smoked, yet I can go into public restrooms.
I'm sure that once I get used to it, I'll be able to as well, but it's still distinctly unpleasant when it never used to bother me at all...
I also enjoy the delicate smell of certain flowers, the light scent of my daughters hair, and other thing. So the smell of a rest room is a small 'penalty'.
Lucky you... I've experienced more new negative smells than positive ones since quitting smoking. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, but for me it has been.
15% of people smoke, if not smoking has hurt your social life, then you need to find some new way to socialize.
In the country I live in (Germany), the percentage of people that smoke is much higher than 15%... actually it's a bit over 30% for men and a bit under 30% for women. Then you take in to account age groups, and mine is also the most likely to smoke... So, the percentage of people I am likely to want to socialise with that smoke is actually only slightly under 50% smokers.
At work, who is and is not a smoker doesn't really affect me (addressed by your next point, which I've quoted below) - what does affect me there is that I'm not smoking.
Work isn't the only place that it affects me. I'm 29 years old and most of my friends in the age range from early 20s to mid 30s. Most are unmarried with no children (including myself) and our social lives tend to include various forms of weekend hedonism ("sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll" kind of thing) generally getting "very trashed" once every couple of months or so. Being a non-smoker in this environment is extremely difficult of course, meaning that until I can become more comfortable with not smoking around large groups of smokers, I have to spend less time with this group of friends.
As a non smoker, I socialize just fine with the smokers in my organization.
I socialise well with both the smokers are non smokers at my workplace - since quitting smoking however, I just don't get to see them! I used to get a 5 minute break every hour or two where I'd go stand at the smoking area and talk with people, make new friends and have good times. Now, I get to work, sit in my office until lunch, take 30 minutes to eat, and then sit in my office again until I leave. There's just no possibility to see these people without getting up and going to the smoking area (which I'll freely admit to being too "afraid" to do because I don't think I have sufficient willpower to not have a cigarette if I were to do that - someone would definitely offer one)
You seem to have let the idea of being a smoker define you.
I don't think so... It's more a cultural thing (not just the culture of the place I live, but of all aspects of my life) - at my age, in this country, with my job, and my spare-time activities/hobbies/social-groups, I'm definitely in the minority now as an ex-smoker and it really is a lot less fun than being a smoker was. I'm not saying that's true for everyone - you mentioned you have a daughter, which I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but it also probably means that your lifestyle is worlds apart from mine, to the point that I wouldn't really expect you to understand (nothing wrong with that of course, and I would also like to point out that I am a long time fan of yours here on Slashdot - just to say that I'm not trying to incite any flames by that statement)
In most of my projects, I'll have error conditions that theoretically can never happens (for example, a switch statement that covers all possibilities in its cases, but throws the error in the "default"). These particular error messages are rather more self-deprecating than user-deprecating, such as "The programmer is clearly a moron, please email him at and tell him that impossible error number 65 isn't actually impossible".
The most fun I have tends to be convincing our translation department to give me an accurate translation of these errors strings in 19 languages...
You're paid to implement requirements as defined by your employer and possibly your customer.
Depends on your job... I spend the majority of my days writing code for my employer, but the specs of the programs are defined by me 95% of the time. I decide that we need something, then I write it, then we release it.
And yep, for the record, most of my apps have easter eggs.
Woah... some of the numbers on that chart are pretty concerning... the median income for full time employed people over 25 who dropped out of high school is $25k. That's DISTURBINGLY low...
My question: Is it because it's really only those that are destined because of other factors to do poorly in life that drop out, or is having a piece of paper THAT important to getting a job in the US?
Just for reference, I'm a "high school drop out" in that I left high school before I finished because I was sick of it and didn't want to put up with it any longer. Now, I'm still under 30 years old and am making the equivalent of around $75k USD. This isn't a fortune and perhaps I could make more, but it's a hell of a lot better than $25k...
America beats Europe by ten miles when it comes to being less racist
Sorry... WHAT?!
Citation most definitely needed if you're going to claim that... perhaps compared to some European countries, and POSSIBLY compared to Europe "on average" if you selectively pick which countries you're including, but in my experience most European countries I've visited or lived in have far less in the way of racial problems than the parts of the US I've visited (or Australia, where I lived before I moved here)
Note: Perhaps most of the US is really great with regard to racism and I've only seen/heard about the bad parts, and perhaps most of Europe is really bad about it and I've only seen/heard about the good parts, but somehow that seems unlikely.
I grew up in a place with pretty much NO racial issues (Southern New Zealand - too far south for the Maori vs Pakeha issues to be noticed) and racism still confuses me to this day. I understand the concept, but not how to actually think that way. I had friends from many different racial backgrounds growing up (I think... there were some with obviously different skin colours and accents anyway, so now that I'm older and more "worldly wise" than I was in my pre-teenage years, I can look back and assume they were different races) and it just never occurred to me that this could be considered a "good thing" or a "bad thing" any more than the colour of someone's hair or whether they prefer peanut butter to Nutella.
Uh huh. So it's more humane to say, "Well, we're pretty sure that you're not going to like your life, so we're going to take it away from you whether you like it or not."?
Before they're able to truly think or feel? Absolutely... afterwards: no, that would be barbaric... so it really comes down to at which point you consider the processes going on in a foetus to be considered "thoughts" or "feelings".
discovering a cure for cancer would be all in the interest of cigarette companies at this point
Absolutely... as an ex-customer of theirs, they'd be on their way to getting my business back...
If there were a cure to every known serious illness caused by smoking (cancer being just one of the many), I would happily start smoking again.
Quitting has:
Hurt my social life more than helped it (especially at work as now I spend all my time sitting in my office instead of socialising at the smoking area)
Cost me more money (I now have less patience, so spend money on "doing stuff" rather than just relaxing with a long time consuming task and a few cigarettes)
Improved my sense of smell (which is a bad thing - not a good thing... walking in to a public men's room when I needed to go never used to bother me as a smoker... now I usually hold it in, because the smell make me retch)
I'll put up with these negatives because I know that they're far less serious than the health issues associated with smoking, but remove the health issues (such as having cures available at prices I can afford), and I'd go back to it in a flash.
You're right that I'm deliberately excluding certain places which may make it seem like I'm shoehorning, but I was going for a comparison of "in general", and there will always be exceptions to the rule when doing so. As long as my list of exceptions is shorter than my set of data, I see no problem to do so.
It does seem I've been modded flamebait throughout this thread, so this will be my last post here... my Karma can take it, as generally I only get positive up-mods, but I guess this topic is just too sensitive for some people. (personally, I think it's not reasonable that people "mod with their hearts instead of their heads", but there's really no way to avoid it (you even said "even if it is at least partially true" when referring to racism in Brisbane, which lends credence to the idea that I was raising uncomfortable but valid points, not just trying to incite flames), so I'll just accept it and be done with it)
I think the problem is that most people, yourself included, seem to have completely misinterpreted what I'm saying. Yes, I compared Adelaide to a British country town, but I wasn't comparing what the city looks like, the size of it, or anything like that - I was comparing the culture of the people there. The attitudes and "feel" of the place (a very subjective thing, I know, which is why I put the "this is just my own personal opinion and experiences" disclaimer in my first post on this thread). Also, the poster from Brisbane that seemed to take offence referred to Brisbane as a "big country town", which is something I've heard from people in both Brisbane and Adelaide on more than one occasion. Considering Brisbane is nearly twice the population of Adelaide, do you consider his statement just as "silly"?
Actually, my last reply may have spoken too soon... there is one point you raised that I'll debate you on...
While both of our cultures have European roots
I think this is a pretty misleading statement really. It's true, as written, but it strongly implies that the people that settled the countries were essentially similar.
I'm not really going to touch on that some significant percentage of the early Australian settlers were criminals - this may or may not have influenced the country's culture and I think it's really impossible to say. Instead, I'll concentrate on free settlers...
Australia was settled primarily by the British at first, with quite a lot of Irish immediately afterwards. These settlers were either part of the system being established (prison colony first, then later "colony") or were simply looking for a new life across the ocean.
In much more recent history, there has been a good deal of influence from the southern European countries (Greek, Italian, etc) and some near east/middle east countries, and China.
New Zealand was settled by the British first also, however after the Maori wars, there was a great deal of influx of people from mainland Europe as well as Ireland and Scotland (Scotland very much so in the deep south). That's why many New Zealand towns have names that are neither British nor Maori in origin. Many of the people going there went to either fight in the Maori wars or as "explorers" (whether right or wrong, Australia was viewed as "place that can be settled" and NZ was viewed as "strange far off land to be explored" - possibly because of the difference in landscape, with NZ having large mountains, dense jungles etc) Later, NZ's main influences have been similar to what they were in the past - lots of Europeans, both from the British Isles and mainland Europe.
Note that for my description of NZ, I'm somewhat excluding Auckland (1/4 of the population) because the culture in Auckland is entirely different to the rest of the country, and so despite being the largest city, can't really be considered representative of the country as a whole (I pointed that out in my city comparisons also) - most NZers outside of Auckland consider Auckland to be a "wanna-be Australian city" (they're trying, but they've managed to take on every bad aspect of Australia without taking on any of the good aspects of it, rendering them far worse than any Australian city could ever be)
First they government wants to set up a nationwide firewall, now this? WTF is going on down there?
I replied to the other half of your post, with what seems to have been interpreted as flamebait, but I realised I didn't reply to your main question... unfortunately, this reply will also probably get modded flamebait, although it isn't intended as such (nor was my other reply)...
What is going on in Australia is that the people aren't doing anything to stand up for themselves. The government there and many companies have come to realise that as long as what you're doing is just a hair or two away from "completely evil", people will complain and grumble but won't actually stand up and fight. They just sit back and say, "well, she'll be right" and expect it to magically all get better as other people fight for them.
This is especially evident in that Australia is one of the few western democracies that FORCES citizens to vote (if you don't vote you get a hefty fine), because if they didn't, the turnout would be too low to be an accurate representation of the will of the people. (it's debatable whether forced voting gives you the true will of the people anyway, but that's another story)
Australians have a "she'll be right mate" and "beer o clock" attitude, which is right up there alongside "your business your risk". As in "If you want me to come in on a weekend, you will be paying overtime rates, if I feel like it".
We don't subscribe to the "employer owns your arse" attitude of the US. Perhaps that makes us seem lazy?
All fair enough in concept, but in the degree that I've seen it practiced, it becomes a problem. I don't believe that my employer "owns" me, and if I find them exploiting me by making me work far too long or giving me too much to do, I'll certainly complain (and if they don't remedy the situation, I'll likely look for new work)... BUT I would also continue to do all of the work to the best of my ability right up to the day I walk out the door. Why? Because I'm doing my job, and as a matter of pride in MYSELF, I will do the best job I can do.
I often found "beer o'clock" to cause big problems in Australia. People working with me would often just stop working, half way through doing something, and then go home, just because the clock read those magical number "17:00". The task itself may have only taken an extra 15 minutes to do, but by stopping where they did, they'd have to re-start quite a lot the next morning and end up wasting another 30 minutes or so. I'll work those extra 15 minutes to finish it. Not because my employer "owns" me, but simply because it's the right thing to do and I'm not wasting their time/money.
We do things for our mates, or for money. We certainly aren't stupid enough to think we have any other obligation to our employers.
And that, specifically, is considered a very bad attitude in most of the rest of the world. You do the job for the money, that's true - if they stop paying you, you certainly don't turn up to work anymore! But, you're paid to do a job, not just to be there (note that from your perspective it's okay to say that you're being paid for the time you're there, but from the company's perspective, you're paid for the work). So, if you turn up and waste the company's time, they do NOT owe you anything (if you turn up, are ready to work and they waste your time, that's fine), and you deserve to be fired. Of course, most companies in Australia wouldn't fire you because they're run by people with the same work ethic as the employees...
I do my job well, and often go "beyond the call of duty" in both effort and hours. Not because I owe my employer anything special, but because I owe myself and my society.
The short vowels, especially 'a's, is a peculiarity of Melbournians and southern Victorians, and is less prominent closer to the River Murray.
Actually, I was aware of South Australians using short 'a's (in particular, residents of the rather fine city of Adelaide), but from Melbournians, I've always heard the same long 'a' that I heard around me in Sydney. Unfortunately, as I now live half a world away, I can't just go check again so easily, so I might have to bow to your statement on this...
The use of Americanisms is lower outside the eastern cities, although still far too common for my taste.
While both of our cultures have European roots, they've both been equally influenced by the US. Saying that NZ is more "European" just shows that you hold it (and Europe) in higher regard than the US and Australia. Your comparisons, from what i can see, aren't even remotely accurate..
Interesting that you think I hold NZ in higher regard by saying it's more European... why is being considered more "European" better than being considered more "American"? (note: I actually DO prefer it, as mentioned, but I didn't say that one was inherently better than the other)
Also, I stand by my comparisons... Unfortunately you didn't give me any points to debate other than "you're wrong"... At least you did it politely unlike some other people replying though.
i just think you're romanticising a bit
I don't see how, unless you consider Europe to be somewhere "very special" that I'm trying to elevate NZ to the great heights of. I've spent 4 years of my life in Europe (yeh, not so much, but I'm only 29), including living here right now, and while it's a great part of the world to live, I don't consider it on a special plane whereby comparing anything to it is immediately "romanticising" the place...
Yeh,sure, I would ask the opinion of a Kiwi on Australia.
Did you miss the bit where I said that I lived in Australia for 6 years? For the record, while I was born and raised in NZ, I've spent only slightly over half of my life there. I'm far from a "typical Kiwi" in my thoughts and attitudes and do believe that I am not biased by any kind of nationalism (I consider nationalism to be just another "bad 'ism'").
New Zealand has a huge inferiority complex regarding Australia.
No... NZ does not have an "inferiority complex" regarding Australia... This is a similar thing to when people say that most of the world has an inferiority complex about the US - it sounds potentially reasonable, but is actually a load of crap.
Most New Zealanders that I know are quite proud of their country, and while I'm not really (see comment above about nationalism), I can see what they're proud of. The people like to consider themselves unique and special, because they're the little guys of the world, but still strong enough to stand up and say "No" when things aren't going to their liking. They don't fawn over the whims of ANY of other country (which even many large countries do) and have a strong sense of independence.
Doesnt help that, yet again we thrashed them in the first test match at the Gabba either.
I have no idea what that means... although from the phrase "test match", I assume it's some kind of sporting thing... don't care. Don't care at all.
Racist? Woah... sorry, what?! I readily admit to intolerance of fools and arseholes, but the race of the person makes NO difference to me whatsoever. I couldn't care less what someone's race is - I'll either like 'em or dislike 'em, but either way it's for who they are, not where they're from.
Don't think I'll stand idly by while you call me lazy
I didn't call YOU lazy... I didn't call any specific individual lazy... I DID say that Australia is generally lazy, which is something I stand by. The culture there is one of "she'll be right mate" and "beer o'clock". What I mean by my statement is that when averaged out, the "everyman" Aussie is lazier than the "everyman" from many other countries. There are of course MANY fine hard working individuals from Australia, just as from other places, but that doesn't change the fact that on average, the culture is one of laziness (and is even celebrated as such by the population and media there)
I can understand that you love your NZ
NZ's great in its own way, as is Australia. I do prefer NZ on the balance of things, but obviously from the fact that I DID spend 6 years in Oz, it's not such a big deal to me...
Chances are you brought it upon yourself by making the sort of claims you've demonstrated here. I'd also be looking at the sort of people you were associating with to be in those sort of areas in the first place, let alone getting into the situations that you did. Guess what, that would happen in any country you visit when you offend the locals.
I find it interesting that you brought up racism at the start of your post, because actually that's one of the things I found really quite appalling in Brisbane... Let me tell you two short stories and then you tell me how either of these were my fault:
Story 1: Trip to a burger shop for lunch
I was on a business trip, visiting a re-seller of the company I work for. I was helping the techs there with some issues at a customer. We finished at the customer and then went back to the office. Because we had further stuff to do in the afternoon and there wasn't enough time for a "real" lunch, we decided to hit a local burger shop just down the road and then eat it in the office. Back in the office with our food, someone queried where we got it. When the guy I was with answered, he was scolded for shopping at "that place" because he was "giving the Italians money". I had to bite my tongue to stay professional...
Story 2: A truck and a group of aboriginal children
I was on a different business trip, this time visiting the Brisbane branch of our company. I was standing outside smoking a cigarette, and was chatting to one of the guys who worked in the warehouse. As we were talking, a truck started to turn in to make a delivery and it had to stop as some aboriginal children (probably between 6 and 8 years old) were walking past on the footpath. The guy from the warehouse muttered, "shoulda hit the little black cunts" (not even a trace of humour in his voice - he meant it). Unlike my previous story, I did not have to remain professional in this instance (branch rather than re-seller), so I just turned to the guy and said, "what the fuck? They're just kids... how the hell do they deserve that?" His answer? "They're just fuckin' abbos.", followed by spitting on the ground and walking inside to end the conversation.
Now, yes, I KNOW that not all people from Brisbane are racist. I KNOW that most would also be shocked and disturbed by the above two stories, but the simple fact that this has happened to me TWICE in Brisbane, whereas I've never experienced this in any other modern western city does somewhat lend itself to a disfavourable viewpoint... Also, for reference, th
Well, aren't you just the politest of the polite, Mr Troll?
I lived in Sydney for 6 years, however have travelled right across Australia (and much of the world). I specifically said in my post that it was my own opinion and feelings about the places and that your experiences may well be different. My experiences with Brisbane (and L.A.) have been extremely negative. I've also got some good friends from Brisbane, so I know it doesn't exclusively produce dickheads, but I did meet far too many while I was there (I've been there about 10 times, average of perhaps 5 days each time). Unfortunately, all you seem to be doing with your post is adding some weight to the dickhead side of the scale.
By the way, I'm not sure where you read my "little/. blog" that says I stayed completely in Sydney for 6 years... I'm pretty sure that's not written anywhere in any post I've written or elsewhere...
Yeh, around Darling Harbour (Opera House, Bridge, etc), it's definitely more like what I imagine San Fran to be like (but I haven't been to SF so can't say for sure). Walking down George street definitely not though, which is what I think of when I think of "city" for Sydney. I was living in Sydney for the 6 years that I was in Oz, and I really did grow to dislike it. It's a great city at first, and I think most tourists probably love it because they don't get stuck with it for too long, but when you're there for a while, you really start getting the same feel that I felt in Manhattan - there's the glitz and glamour over the top (although VERY vacuous "sex and the city" type), with a really seedy underbelly below it that will rear its ugly head once you've been lured in.
And the sage advice you were given is good... but as for NZ, any European flag will do (some mainland European flags will get better reactions than British depending on what part of NZ you're going through (a Dutch flag works well pretty much everywhere) - British is still 100% fine though). The Canadian flag also works well pretty much everywhere in the world off the North American continent since it's easily recognisable as a symbol that says "hey, I may sound like one, but I am NOT American!" (just as most people in that part of the world can't tell the difference between NZ and AU accents (they're VERY different!), we can't tell the difference between American and Canadian accents)
But seriously there are a lot of ways that the E.U. is less free than America..... and overall just a more-restrictive society.
Depends on your viewpoint actually... I find Europe to be much more free than the US with regards to the culture, even if the law is technically a little more restrictive (in many, but not all, ways).
First, where you're right: It's true that if I walk down the street here in Germany doing my best Hitler impression I could technically be arrested (although I don't know if they would do so in practice - I'm not game to find out), and it's also true that even in the case of self defence against criminals, one must be careful to avoid injuring the criminal beyond what is necessary to stop them committing the crime (it's NOT true you can't defend yourself though! AND violent crime is pretty rare, so it's less of an issue)... It's also true that taxes here are very high - I pay nearly 50% of my income in taxes, plus reasonably high taxes on things I buy, especially petrol. I accept this though, because I can see the benefits of these taxes in the society around me (clean cities, no homeless people begging on the streets for change, low crime, excellent public transport, and much more)
HOWEVER, as I said, there's the cultural/social side to consider. For example, here in Europe:
You can say "fuck" on TV without people getting offended or the word being "bleeped"
People are tolerant/accepting of "non mainstream" lifestyles (even if they don't agree with them or like them) - I'd feel distinctly unsafe walking through most places in the US wearing a cravat shirt and gothic makeup, whereas here in Europe I'll hardly get a second glance (no matter how weird they think I am, they'll leave me alone)
Due to not being paranoid about everyone and crime rates being pretty low, it's okay to leave your child unattended or with a stranger for a minute while you go do something
If I get caught with an illegal narcotic, I will NOT go to prison (unless it's an excessive amount, or I'm trying to take it over a border or something)
If none of these things interest you (or even if you're actively against these things), fine... but we like it the way we have it, so you shouldn't think even for a second that we're all oppressed and struggling under authoritarian regimes on this side of the pond!
Isn't Australia supposed to be all European open and sophisticated, unlike us puritanical Americans?
Definitely not... Australia is VERY Americanised. They even do that weird short "a" in words that are pronounced elsewhere with a long "a" (words like "dance", "chance", "plant", "advance" etc). You can think of Australia as basically just another collection of US states but a bit more laid back (read: "lazy") and with some strange expressions/sayings and far too many poisonous animals.
Oddly, the next door neighbour, New Zealand, is MUCH more European.
I'm a New Zealander that lived in Australia for 6 years and different parts of Europe for 4 so far (living in Germany at the moment), and I've also visited the US for work on quite a few occasions, so I'm not just "assuming" things here - these comments are based on my experience of the places. They ARE just my personal experience and opinions though - your experiences may differ!
The closest relationships in culture/"feel" that I've noticed are between cities rather than countries though:
Hannover, Germany <> Wellington, New Zealand
Brno, Czech Republic <> Christchurch, New Zealand
Inverness, Scotland <> Dunedin, New Zealand
Sydney, NSW, Australia <> New York City, NY, US (especially: Sydney Centre and North Sydney <> Manhattan and: Sydney Inner West <> Queens)
Brisbane, QLD, Australia <> Los Angeles, CA, US
Melbourne, VIC, Australia <> Seattle, WA, US
There are places that break this mould though... off the top of my head:
Auckland, NZ <> Chicago, IL, US
Adelaide, SA, AU <> Nowhere specific, but distinctly "small town British" feeling
Note #1: Personally I prefer NZ/EU culture rather than US/AU, but it really is a matter of what you prefer... if you like EU, you'll probably like most of NZ; if you like US, you'll probably like most of AU.
Note #2: When I say "EU", "Europe" or "European" in this post, I'm more or less referring to Western, Northern and Central Europe, and excluding southern Europe a bit... the culture in places like Spain, Italy and even the south of France tends to be quite different in a lot of ways.
Slashdot Mirror
Huh? Everyone has a psychological aversion towards criticism
Ummm... Basically - no, you're wrong, they don't.
(I'd have liked to write a long and detailed reply, but I really can't add any more to what I just wrote...)
Well, my perspective is different than most. Many of the software types here seem to be employed developing relatively unimportant applications, the kind that perhaps can tolerate their idea of what is funny.
Yep, most of us are... we're well aware that there are jobs where putting an Easter Egg in the code would be grounds for dismissal and potentially a "very bad thing to do" anyway, and if we were employed in such jobs we wouldn't do it. I do think however that despite your claims of not being uptight, you really ARE being so in this case, because even though you've already admitted that your circumstances seem to be different to the majority of us, you nevertheless still claim that we shouldn't put easter eggs in our code.
I also don't like your assumption that we don't have what it takes to get a job with "significant responsibility" just because we put eggs in our code... that's like claiming someone who street races on the weekends shouldn't be a professional limousine driver for important people because he's not "responsible" behind a wheel. How he acts on the weekend should have NO bearing on how he drives the limo. In the same way, how we code on projects where it DOESN'T matter whether we have easter eggs should have NO bearing on whether we're considered for jobs where it does matter.
Guru Meditation is a great error message, but if we're looking at ancient Amiga history, nothing beats the Amiga Kickstart 1.2 Easter Egg. From the Workbench screen, hold down both alts, both shifts, F1 and then eject a disk - the title changes to "The Amiga - Born a Champion". Continue to hold the keys, click the left mouse button on the screen depth gadget and re-insert the disk - the title then changes to "We made Amiga, they fucked it up" (in reference to Commodore). Unfortunately, this was subtly changed to something "less offensive" by Workbench 1.3, which was the earliest version that most people saw.
Comments, no problem. Easter Eggs, no problem. Humorous variable names, problem... If you have variables named, "banana", "apple", "toad", "hedgehog" and "puppy", then it gets VERY confusing when you're trying to read/debug the code several years later. Certainly, most IDEs will let you rename variables later, and so you could just "clean up" easily, but then that kind of defeats the humour of having them there.
My rule for my own code is that if I can't debug it with a plain text editor (or by printing it on dead tree and reading it from there), then I haven't written it properly (generally I WILL make use of my IDE and compiler, but the point is that I don't HAVE to).
Maybe I've just been lucky, but every manager I've had since starting a "real" job (data-entry, internet cafe and fixing broken serial terminals were not real jobs) has been an ex-techie himself. My current boss did micro-controller programming for embedded devices before becoming a manager, and my boss before the current one did systems design and documentation.
Absolutely... a lot of people here are making comments along the lines of "the longer you code, the lower your quality gets"... I consider coding an Easter Egg to be a break AWAY from the regular coding, and it's as good as any other break, so then I can get back to the real code "refreshed and ready" after finishing the Egg.
I never smoked, yet I can go into public restrooms.
I'm sure that once I get used to it, I'll be able to as well, but it's still distinctly unpleasant when it never used to bother me at all...
I also enjoy the delicate smell of certain flowers, the light scent of my daughters hair, and other thing. So the smell of a rest room is a small 'penalty'.
Lucky you... I've experienced more new negative smells than positive ones since quitting smoking. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone, but for me it has been.
15% of people smoke, if not smoking has hurt your social life, then you need to find some new way to socialize.
In the country I live in (Germany), the percentage of people that smoke is much higher than 15%... actually it's a bit over 30% for men and a bit under 30% for women. Then you take in to account age groups, and mine is also the most likely to smoke... So, the percentage of people I am likely to want to socialise with that smoke is actually only slightly under 50% smokers.
At work, who is and is not a smoker doesn't really affect me (addressed by your next point, which I've quoted below) - what does affect me there is that I'm not smoking.
Work isn't the only place that it affects me. I'm 29 years old and most of my friends in the age range from early 20s to mid 30s. Most are unmarried with no children (including myself) and our social lives tend to include various forms of weekend hedonism ("sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll" kind of thing) generally getting "very trashed" once every couple of months or so. Being a non-smoker in this environment is extremely difficult of course, meaning that until I can become more comfortable with not smoking around large groups of smokers, I have to spend less time with this group of friends.
As a non smoker, I socialize just fine with the smokers in my organization.
I socialise well with both the smokers are non smokers at my workplace - since quitting smoking however, I just don't get to see them! I used to get a 5 minute break every hour or two where I'd go stand at the smoking area and talk with people, make new friends and have good times. Now, I get to work, sit in my office until lunch, take 30 minutes to eat, and then sit in my office again until I leave. There's just no possibility to see these people without getting up and going to the smoking area (which I'll freely admit to being too "afraid" to do because I don't think I have sufficient willpower to not have a cigarette if I were to do that - someone would definitely offer one)
You seem to have let the idea of being a smoker define you.
I don't think so... It's more a cultural thing (not just the culture of the place I live, but of all aspects of my life) - at my age, in this country, with my job, and my spare-time activities/hobbies/social-groups, I'm definitely in the minority now as an ex-smoker and it really is a lot less fun than being a smoker was. I'm not saying that's true for everyone - you mentioned you have a daughter, which I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but it also probably means that your lifestyle is worlds apart from mine, to the point that I wouldn't really expect you to understand (nothing wrong with that of course, and I would also like to point out that I am a long time fan of yours here on Slashdot - just to say that I'm not trying to incite any flames by that statement)
In most of my projects, I'll have error conditions that theoretically can never happens (for example, a switch statement that covers all possibilities in its cases, but throws the error in the "default"). These particular error messages are rather more self-deprecating than user-deprecating, such as "The programmer is clearly a moron, please email him at and tell him that impossible error number 65 isn't actually impossible".
The most fun I have tends to be convincing our translation department to give me an accurate translation of these errors strings in 19 languages...
You're paid to implement requirements as defined by your employer and possibly your customer.
Depends on your job... I spend the majority of my days writing code for my employer, but the specs of the programs are defined by me 95% of the time. I decide that we need something, then I write it, then we release it.
And yep, for the record, most of my apps have easter eggs.
Woah... some of the numbers on that chart are pretty concerning... the median income for full time employed people over 25 who dropped out of high school is $25k. That's DISTURBINGLY low...
My question: Is it because it's really only those that are destined because of other factors to do poorly in life that drop out, or is having a piece of paper THAT important to getting a job in the US?
Just for reference, I'm a "high school drop out" in that I left high school before I finished because I was sick of it and didn't want to put up with it any longer. Now, I'm still under 30 years old and am making the equivalent of around $75k USD. This isn't a fortune and perhaps I could make more, but it's a hell of a lot better than $25k...
America beats Europe by ten miles when it comes to being less racist
Sorry... WHAT?!
Citation most definitely needed if you're going to claim that... perhaps compared to some European countries, and POSSIBLY compared to Europe "on average" if you selectively pick which countries you're including, but in my experience most European countries I've visited or lived in have far less in the way of racial problems than the parts of the US I've visited (or Australia, where I lived before I moved here)
Note: Perhaps most of the US is really great with regard to racism and I've only seen/heard about the bad parts, and perhaps most of Europe is really bad about it and I've only seen/heard about the good parts, but somehow that seems unlikely.
I grew up in a place with pretty much NO racial issues (Southern New Zealand - too far south for the Maori vs Pakeha issues to be noticed) and racism still confuses me to this day. I understand the concept, but not how to actually think that way. I had friends from many different racial backgrounds growing up (I think... there were some with obviously different skin colours and accents anyway, so now that I'm older and more "worldly wise" than I was in my pre-teenage years, I can look back and assume they were different races) and it just never occurred to me that this could be considered a "good thing" or a "bad thing" any more than the colour of someone's hair or whether they prefer peanut butter to Nutella.
Uh huh. So it's more humane to say, "Well, we're pretty sure that you're not going to like your life, so we're going to take it away from you whether you like it or not."?
Before they're able to truly think or feel? Absolutely... afterwards: no, that would be barbaric... so it really comes down to at which point you consider the processes going on in a foetus to be considered "thoughts" or "feelings".
discovering a cure for cancer would be all in the interest of cigarette companies at this point
Absolutely... as an ex-customer of theirs, they'd be on their way to getting my business back...
If there were a cure to every known serious illness caused by smoking (cancer being just one of the many), I would happily start smoking again.
Quitting has:
I'll put up with these negatives because I know that they're far less serious than the health issues associated with smoking, but remove the health issues (such as having cures available at prices I can afford), and I'd go back to it in a flash.
You're right that I'm deliberately excluding certain places which may make it seem like I'm shoehorning, but I was going for a comparison of "in general", and there will always be exceptions to the rule when doing so. As long as my list of exceptions is shorter than my set of data, I see no problem to do so.
It does seem I've been modded flamebait throughout this thread, so this will be my last post here... my Karma can take it, as generally I only get positive up-mods, but I guess this topic is just too sensitive for some people. (personally, I think it's not reasonable that people "mod with their hearts instead of their heads", but there's really no way to avoid it (you even said "even if it is at least partially true" when referring to racism in Brisbane, which lends credence to the idea that I was raising uncomfortable but valid points, not just trying to incite flames), so I'll just accept it and be done with it)
I think the problem is that most people, yourself included, seem to have completely misinterpreted what I'm saying. Yes, I compared Adelaide to a British country town, but I wasn't comparing what the city looks like, the size of it, or anything like that - I was comparing the culture of the people there. The attitudes and "feel" of the place (a very subjective thing, I know, which is why I put the "this is just my own personal opinion and experiences" disclaimer in my first post on this thread).
Also, the poster from Brisbane that seemed to take offence referred to Brisbane as a "big country town", which is something I've heard from people in both Brisbane and Adelaide on more than one occasion. Considering Brisbane is nearly twice the population of Adelaide, do you consider his statement just as "silly"?
Actually, my last reply may have spoken too soon... there is one point you raised that I'll debate you on...
While both of our cultures have European roots
I think this is a pretty misleading statement really. It's true, as written, but it strongly implies that the people that settled the countries were essentially similar.
I'm not really going to touch on that some significant percentage of the early Australian settlers were criminals - this may or may not have influenced the country's culture and I think it's really impossible to say. Instead, I'll concentrate on free settlers...
Australia was settled primarily by the British at first, with quite a lot of Irish immediately afterwards. These settlers were either part of the system being established (prison colony first, then later "colony") or were simply looking for a new life across the ocean.
In much more recent history, there has been a good deal of influence from the southern European countries (Greek, Italian, etc) and some near east/middle east countries, and China.
New Zealand was settled by the British first also, however after the Maori wars, there was a great deal of influx of people from mainland Europe as well as Ireland and Scotland (Scotland very much so in the deep south). That's why many New Zealand towns have names that are neither British nor Maori in origin. Many of the people going there went to either fight in the Maori wars or as "explorers" (whether right or wrong, Australia was viewed as "place that can be settled" and NZ was viewed as "strange far off land to be explored" - possibly because of the difference in landscape, with NZ having large mountains, dense jungles etc)
Later, NZ's main influences have been similar to what they were in the past - lots of Europeans, both from the British Isles and mainland Europe.
Note that for my description of NZ, I'm somewhat excluding Auckland (1/4 of the population) because the culture in Auckland is entirely different to the rest of the country, and so despite being the largest city, can't really be considered representative of the country as a whole (I pointed that out in my city comparisons also) - most NZers outside of Auckland consider Auckland to be a "wanna-be Australian city" (they're trying, but they've managed to take on every bad aspect of Australia without taking on any of the good aspects of it, rendering them far worse than any Australian city could ever be)
First they government wants to set up a nationwide firewall, now this? WTF is going on down there?
I replied to the other half of your post, with what seems to have been interpreted as flamebait, but I realised I didn't reply to your main question... unfortunately, this reply will also probably get modded flamebait, although it isn't intended as such (nor was my other reply)...
What is going on in Australia is that the people aren't doing anything to stand up for themselves. The government there and many companies have come to realise that as long as what you're doing is just a hair or two away from "completely evil", people will complain and grumble but won't actually stand up and fight. They just sit back and say, "well, she'll be right" and expect it to magically all get better as other people fight for them.
This is especially evident in that Australia is one of the few western democracies that FORCES citizens to vote (if you don't vote you get a hefty fine), because if they didn't, the turnout would be too low to be an accurate representation of the will of the people. (it's debatable whether forced voting gives you the true will of the people anyway, but that's another story)
Australians have a "she'll be right mate" and "beer o clock" attitude, which is right up there alongside "your business your risk". As in "If you want me to come in on a weekend, you will be paying overtime rates, if I feel like it".
We don't subscribe to the "employer owns your arse" attitude of the US. Perhaps that makes us seem lazy?
All fair enough in concept, but in the degree that I've seen it practiced, it becomes a problem. I don't believe that my employer "owns" me, and if I find them exploiting me by making me work far too long or giving me too much to do, I'll certainly complain (and if they don't remedy the situation, I'll likely look for new work)... BUT I would also continue to do all of the work to the best of my ability right up to the day I walk out the door. Why? Because I'm doing my job, and as a matter of pride in MYSELF, I will do the best job I can do.
I often found "beer o'clock" to cause big problems in Australia. People working with me would often just stop working, half way through doing something, and then go home, just because the clock read those magical number "17:00". The task itself may have only taken an extra 15 minutes to do, but by stopping where they did, they'd have to re-start quite a lot the next morning and end up wasting another 30 minutes or so. I'll work those extra 15 minutes to finish it. Not because my employer "owns" me, but simply because it's the right thing to do and I'm not wasting their time/money.
We do things for our mates, or for money. We certainly aren't stupid enough to think we have any other obligation to our employers.
And that, specifically, is considered a very bad attitude in most of the rest of the world. You do the job for the money, that's true - if they stop paying you, you certainly don't turn up to work anymore! But, you're paid to do a job, not just to be there (note that from your perspective it's okay to say that you're being paid for the time you're there, but from the company's perspective, you're paid for the work). So, if you turn up and waste the company's time, they do NOT owe you anything (if you turn up, are ready to work and they waste your time, that's fine), and you deserve to be fired. Of course, most companies in Australia wouldn't fire you because they're run by people with the same work ethic as the employees...
I do my job well, and often go "beyond the call of duty" in both effort and hours. Not because I owe my employer anything special, but because I owe myself and my society.
The short vowels, especially 'a's, is a peculiarity of Melbournians and southern Victorians, and is less prominent closer to the River Murray.
Actually, I was aware of South Australians using short 'a's (in particular, residents of the rather fine city of Adelaide), but from Melbournians, I've always heard the same long 'a' that I heard around me in Sydney. Unfortunately, as I now live half a world away, I can't just go check again so easily, so I might have to bow to your statement on this...
The use of Americanisms is lower outside the eastern cities, although still far too common for my taste.
That, we can 100% agree on...
While both of our cultures have European roots, they've both been equally influenced by the US. Saying that NZ is more "European" just shows that you hold it (and Europe) in higher regard than the US and Australia. Your comparisons, from what i can see, aren't even remotely accurate..
Interesting that you think I hold NZ in higher regard by saying it's more European... why is being considered more "European" better than being considered more "American"? (note: I actually DO prefer it, as mentioned, but I didn't say that one was inherently better than the other)
Also, I stand by my comparisons... Unfortunately you didn't give me any points to debate other than "you're wrong"... At least you did it politely unlike some other people replying though.
i just think you're romanticising a bit
I don't see how, unless you consider Europe to be somewhere "very special" that I'm trying to elevate NZ to the great heights of. I've spent 4 years of my life in Europe (yeh, not so much, but I'm only 29), including living here right now, and while it's a great part of the world to live, I don't consider it on a special plane whereby comparing anything to it is immediately "romanticising" the place...
Yeh,sure, I would ask the opinion of a Kiwi on Australia.
Did you miss the bit where I said that I lived in Australia for 6 years? For the record, while I was born and raised in NZ, I've spent only slightly over half of my life there. I'm far from a "typical Kiwi" in my thoughts and attitudes and do believe that I am not biased by any kind of nationalism (I consider nationalism to be just another "bad 'ism'").
New Zealand has a huge inferiority complex regarding Australia.
No... NZ does not have an "inferiority complex" regarding Australia... This is a similar thing to when people say that most of the world has an inferiority complex about the US - it sounds potentially reasonable, but is actually a load of crap.
Most New Zealanders that I know are quite proud of their country, and while I'm not really (see comment above about nationalism), I can see what they're proud of. The people like to consider themselves unique and special, because they're the little guys of the world, but still strong enough to stand up and say "No" when things aren't going to their liking. They don't fawn over the whims of ANY of other country (which even many large countries do) and have a strong sense of independence.
Doesnt help that, yet again we thrashed them in the first test match at the Gabba either.
I have no idea what that means... although from the phrase "test match", I assume it's some kind of sporting thing... don't care. Don't care at all.
Listen up troll, and you are that.
The moderators seem to think differently...
four have been bitchin, with racist undertones
Racist? Woah... sorry, what?! I readily admit to intolerance of fools and arseholes, but the race of the person makes NO difference to me whatsoever. I couldn't care less what someone's race is - I'll either like 'em or dislike 'em, but either way it's for who they are, not where they're from.
Don't think I'll stand idly by while you call me lazy
I didn't call YOU lazy... I didn't call any specific individual lazy... I DID say that Australia is generally lazy, which is something I stand by. The culture there is one of "she'll be right mate" and "beer o'clock". What I mean by my statement is that when averaged out, the "everyman" Aussie is lazier than the "everyman" from many other countries. There are of course MANY fine hard working individuals from Australia, just as from other places, but that doesn't change the fact that on average, the culture is one of laziness (and is even celebrated as such by the population and media there)
I can understand that you love your NZ
NZ's great in its own way, as is Australia. I do prefer NZ on the balance of things, but obviously from the fact that I DID spend 6 years in Oz, it's not such a big deal to me...
Chances are you brought it upon yourself by making the sort of claims you've demonstrated here. I'd also be looking at the sort of people you were associating with to be in those sort of areas in the first place, let alone getting into the situations that you did. Guess what, that would happen in any country you visit when you offend the locals.
I find it interesting that you brought up racism at the start of your post, because actually that's one of the things I found really quite appalling in Brisbane... Let me tell you two short stories and then you tell me how either of these were my fault:
Story 1: Trip to a burger shop for lunch
I was on a business trip, visiting a re-seller of the company I work for. I was helping the techs there with some issues at a customer. We finished at the customer and then went back to the office. Because we had further stuff to do in the afternoon and there wasn't enough time for a "real" lunch, we decided to hit a local burger shop just down the road and then eat it in the office.
Back in the office with our food, someone queried where we got it. When the guy I was with answered, he was scolded for shopping at "that place" because he was "giving the Italians money".
I had to bite my tongue to stay professional...
Story 2: A truck and a group of aboriginal children
I was on a different business trip, this time visiting the Brisbane branch of our company. I was standing outside smoking a cigarette, and was chatting to one of the guys who worked in the warehouse. As we were talking, a truck started to turn in to make a delivery and it had to stop as some aboriginal children (probably between 6 and 8 years old) were walking past on the footpath. The guy from the warehouse muttered, "shoulda hit the little black cunts" (not even a trace of humour in his voice - he meant it).
Unlike my previous story, I did not have to remain professional in this instance (branch rather than re-seller), so I just turned to the guy and said, "what the fuck? They're just kids... how the hell do they deserve that?"
His answer? "They're just fuckin' abbos.", followed by spitting on the ground and walking inside to end the conversation.
Now, yes, I KNOW that not all people from Brisbane are racist. I KNOW that most would also be shocked and disturbed by the above two stories, but the simple fact that this has happened to me TWICE in Brisbane, whereas I've never experienced this in any other modern western city does somewhat lend itself to a disfavourable viewpoint... Also, for reference, th
Well, aren't you just the politest of the polite, Mr Troll?
I lived in Sydney for 6 years, however have travelled right across Australia (and much of the world). I specifically said in my post that it was my own opinion and feelings about the places and that your experiences may well be different. My experiences with Brisbane (and L.A.) have been extremely negative. I've also got some good friends from Brisbane, so I know it doesn't exclusively produce dickheads, but I did meet far too many while I was there (I've been there about 10 times, average of perhaps 5 days each time). Unfortunately, all you seem to be doing with your post is adding some weight to the dickhead side of the scale.
By the way, I'm not sure where you read my "little /. blog" that says I stayed completely in Sydney for 6 years... I'm pretty sure that's not written anywhere in any post I've written or elsewhere...
Yeh, around Darling Harbour (Opera House, Bridge, etc), it's definitely more like what I imagine San Fran to be like (but I haven't been to SF so can't say for sure). Walking down George street definitely not though, which is what I think of when I think of "city" for Sydney. I was living in Sydney for the 6 years that I was in Oz, and I really did grow to dislike it. It's a great city at first, and I think most tourists probably love it because they don't get stuck with it for too long, but when you're there for a while, you really start getting the same feel that I felt in Manhattan - there's the glitz and glamour over the top (although VERY vacuous "sex and the city" type), with a really seedy underbelly below it that will rear its ugly head once you've been lured in.
And the sage advice you were given is good... but as for NZ, any European flag will do (some mainland European flags will get better reactions than British depending on what part of NZ you're going through (a Dutch flag works well pretty much everywhere) - British is still 100% fine though). The Canadian flag also works well pretty much everywhere in the world off the North American continent since it's easily recognisable as a symbol that says "hey, I may sound like one, but I am NOT American!" (just as most people in that part of the world can't tell the difference between NZ and AU accents (they're VERY different!), we can't tell the difference between American and Canadian accents)
But seriously there are a lot of ways that the E.U. is less free than America ..... and overall just a more-restrictive society.
Depends on your viewpoint actually... I find Europe to be much more free than the US with regards to the culture, even if the law is technically a little more restrictive (in many, but not all, ways).
First, where you're right: It's true that if I walk down the street here in Germany doing my best Hitler impression I could technically be arrested (although I don't know if they would do so in practice - I'm not game to find out), and it's also true that even in the case of self defence against criminals, one must be careful to avoid injuring the criminal beyond what is necessary to stop them committing the crime (it's NOT true you can't defend yourself though! AND violent crime is pretty rare, so it's less of an issue)...
It's also true that taxes here are very high - I pay nearly 50% of my income in taxes, plus reasonably high taxes on things I buy, especially petrol. I accept this though, because I can see the benefits of these taxes in the society around me (clean cities, no homeless people begging on the streets for change, low crime, excellent public transport, and much more)
HOWEVER, as I said, there's the cultural/social side to consider. For example, here in Europe:
If none of these things interest you (or even if you're actively against these things), fine... but we like it the way we have it, so you shouldn't think even for a second that we're all oppressed and struggling under authoritarian regimes on this side of the pond!
Isn't Australia supposed to be all European open and sophisticated, unlike us puritanical Americans?
Definitely not... Australia is VERY Americanised. They even do that weird short "a" in words that are pronounced elsewhere with a long "a" (words like "dance", "chance", "plant", "advance" etc). You can think of Australia as basically just another collection of US states but a bit more laid back (read: "lazy") and with some strange expressions/sayings and far too many poisonous animals.
Oddly, the next door neighbour, New Zealand, is MUCH more European.
I'm a New Zealander that lived in Australia for 6 years and different parts of Europe for 4 so far (living in Germany at the moment), and I've also visited the US for work on quite a few occasions, so I'm not just "assuming" things here - these comments are based on my experience of the places. They ARE just my personal experience and opinions though - your experiences may differ!
The closest relationships in culture/"feel" that I've noticed are between cities rather than countries though:
There are places that break this mould though... off the top of my head:
Note #1: Personally I prefer NZ/EU culture rather than US/AU, but it really is a matter of what you prefer... if you like EU, you'll probably like most of NZ; if you like US, you'll probably like most of AU.
Note #2: When I say "EU", "Europe" or "European" in this post, I'm more or less referring to Western, Northern and Central Europe, and excluding southern Europe a bit... the culture in places like Spain, Italy and even the south of France tends to be quite different in a lot of ways.