"I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, cloning and genetic engineering delve into areas that will only harm the planet in the long run."
My existience is first priority over any warm fuzzies that I get from the earth. If I have a choice of doing something for the earth and allowing my life to go on I will always choose life and the ability to make a difference with what really counts our human race.
"This planet is already over populated with humans. We, as humans, are constantly destroying our environment with deforestation, polution, etc."
Ok so bad people do bad things I think that is unarguable. However I doubt that the planet is "overpopulated" We are just lazy and stupid when it comes to building efficent structures and using pre existing land that we have. Eventually people die. The system works quite well.
"Nature has a way of dealing with this sort of thing."
There is little proof that "nature" does anything let alone intelligently.
"There was system of "checks and balances", so to speak, that kept species levels at an equalibrium."
Yeah it's called sustainable population. This works because other creatures are not scentient(sp) beings. I have feelings. I will not give up my life just to keep things in "equalibrium".
"With the advancement of medicines, genetic engineering, etc, we humans have altered that system that will eventually lead to the end, unless of course, we can find another planet to live on before then. "
*sarcasm* Oops there go those nasty humans trying to make things better: bad humans!*sarcasm*
"Whatever dude, you are just beating yourself to death here. The AI will respond however it is PROGRAMMED to respond, not how you think it should.. They are machines, and quite honestly I dont think AI, will ever be as complex as my mind. Yup I am a naysayer to this whole deal. And you are just off on planet 9. I wont be suprised if it happens, but I doubt it will. And even then, ill take a person to a computer ANY day. Period. You sound like a lonely guy in need of a little friendship.. "
Computers have been supposedly been advancing left and right with complexity. Human beings have a nasty reputation of doing rotten horrible things for fun and profit. Generally I think that any advance that actually allows said technology to do something without you needing to study it for 10+ years is a good thing.
If you think I am totally off base here look at the research into something called "fuzzy logic" and then think about it for a moment. Someone could say that people are "programmed" through a series of events that happen in their lives. I have had various events that either made me happier or sorrowful because of what they did to me. Why not base some form of logic and analyze events that could then act in such a way. All you have to do is make the actual ideas and concepts a little less arcane and you have a workable answer.
Yeah I may be lonely but don't I have at least some point? People are a somewhat bad liability. People condemn the government because of it's people that make it up. The system is fine it's just the idiots running the show. You have to really look at things really hard. Doing something just to uncover the boring scientific truth is getting old for me. Everything I have read and stidied in my education has about the boring facts. I really like the concepts more.
Plus it dosn't help that they make the learning curve so steep.
"how do you justify recycling the same old tired response to AI?"
I think he's just responding to the natural level of skepticism that greets the development of AI and the meaning of the word "good".
Many people probably thought that Eliza was the best thing they had ever seen between the time when AI became possible and maybe 10 years into the future from that time.
I could also say that perhaps if you have games that can predict user interactions and give a more challenging or crafty response in games that would be an advance. It just depends on the reference to the idea.
"Wouldn't it be a real ego-crusher if they were rejected by their computer? I mean, giving a computer free will also means giving it likes and dislikes, and anyone who doesn;t have any friends to begin with would probably have trouble making friends with a computer as well. "
I think I would debate this with you. Essentially I think that a computer being a more rational and more prone to Vulcan like behaviour would almost certainly be a little more objective than people who judge on looks or wealth, or whatever. The only way I think that an early version of this would be able to judge a person would be what he/she typed on the keyboard or perhaps that could extend to audio input. Plus why would anyone want to create a thing that hated you. How many of you would want a BOFH controlling your unix box.
Computer I need more space disk space for this new game.
"That is the religious side to the ethics problem. There is also a legal side to the problem. If artificial intelligence is created, who is responsible for it. You've seen the Matrix, it's a little extreme but the point is still there. If you create a machine that has AI, who is responsible for that machines actions. If your car has an AI driving system in it and you have a wreck, is Ford responsible? "
I think that you might try reasoning with the machine so that perhaps it dosn't try to hurt or kill you. Think of the possibilities. No people wouldn't have any need to be lonely or afraid ever again. People who never thought they had a friend in the world could have a machine as their friend. Perhaps one could have a little conversation with your computer.
You: Miss computer if you promise not to BSOD on my for the rest of the day you will get a new Ram upgrade how about it?
Computer: alrighty no BSODs for today. Hmmm ram...
"What do you say to the people that feel it is unethical to try to create "intelligence"? "
Could you please explain why in any way it would be unethical to create "intelligence". I just don't get it. I think it would be a compassionate act. Just think if your computer could tell you what it really feels when you sit and play quake on it for hours on end or just swear at it because it just did what you told it? I mean literally giving a machine a choice wheather or not to be a slave is not a bad thing in my book.
Now granted these ideas are in fact a little kooky but still I think that they are not in the least unethical.
Are there any attempts to get AI research into a more less challenging fashion? I mean I would think that the way the OSS movement has benefited from mass proliferation of information in creating code the same could be said for the likes of AI.
Are there any good AI programs of simulations besides things like doctor.el for emacs? I would assume that there are also other languages than the vaunted lisp that I have heard so much about (but can't find a single good book at a bookstore or a single class that teaches this locally)? I have seen at least one book that used C++ designing so called "expert systems" but that was a little beyond me.
Also are the claims of various games to support advanced AI really true?
And that would be what exactly my dear AC? If you don't like the post then don't reply to it. But hey that's just the logical conclusion and when has logic clouded slashdot at any time?
The page that I first say when I got the 500 error was basically citeing another individual who was (I think at least) not directly related to the main core of slashdot developers. Also considering that the page was perhaps generated from somewhere else. Some host called linuxxxx.dn.net or something like that (may be horribly inaccurate). What is also very interesting is that even in lynx (standard almost as miniminalistic as it gets) it didn't work well at all. And this was after 10+ times of trying to fetch the page (just didn't respond to my http get request.
I have been thinking about what our society has turned out to be like as of late and I find that I almost can't see why the world would be that much better off with things like these and all sorts of vague hard to impliment and hard to use tools. Could someone actually inform me as to how the actual man on the street has any input to the future with this or any other tool that has been developed. The main idea behind this is supposedly that people can run a server and act a s amedium for things that others would like the world to see. But then why do most ISPs that allow for cable modem access not very willing to let people run servers on them? All this is essentially doing is basically making data hard to reach and hence hard to utilize. I think I can safely say that a voice in this world is fast becomming impossible to gain. All of the programming that I have done in the past oh cumulatively about 3 years and I still can't write one single thing that anyone would give a damn about. Not to mention how steep the learning curve has become for almost any topic under the sun. All these people have to do to actually ruin this idea is real diabolically simple. Oh well you have to run an efficient network right? Well then you have to pay for some massive pipe into your house. I have yet to see one ISP in all of the USA let alone any region that I live in that would offer at least the option of running any server code what so ever. Then do you know what people do? They have the equivelent of T-1 access and all they do is just sit there on it and do relatively nothing. Prices are still too high to do almost anything interesting or fun. And from what I can tell the job markeyt is slowing for all the realy cool stuff. Also one of the things that also really scares me is that the use of java to impliment the client: well it's portable but then why do I have to use something that is totally geared to just doing networking and graphics.
What I eventually see if that people will have to go to school for 20 years and design some massive project just to get a place of decent employment. That is the scary thing. All people in this world have to do to really screw you is to eliminate choice and the rest of the general black pillar of misery will follow. People want to control little fiefdoms and ruin the little guy's chances of doing anything. Not only that but the sheer contempt for the learning is apaling from what I have seen.
So I really would like this question answered instead of the standard kettle of flames: In the most cost effective manner possible what is the best way to gain true power for a communications medium. In otherwords for the lowest cost how can I have my own machine running one of these fandangled servers under very low system requirements and for little problem. I want to just basically get a medium that can't be stolen from me or used as another example of why the even slightly less endowed are going to get screwed over. No I don't like the concept of another taking editorial control over me and I don't like the concept of being forced to pay thousands of USD each and every month for the right to publish ideas. One of the main reasons I even give a rat's ass about most of the developments that have even happened (including this one) was that I had some folorn hope that I a human who has pretty much lost the ball game and never really hit a home run be able to actually get some pride and do something that was worth anything. However these technologies take things for a given which I find scary. The idea that you must rely on a third party to communicate and constantly rely on external computers and the possibility that those computers may be more unreliable than your own. The fact that you may be without any chance to do something when the sticking point really gets there. Until internet access is always on and always there like a simple telephone I think I can say many, many developments and ideas may be left out in the cold. I think that saying something is more of a right than a priviledge in this world and I for one would be more than happy to stand up for that belief.
LOL! my nerdy friends and I used to sit outside the library and play cribbage because, altho we were fair friends with the librarian, he thought cards were the tool of the devil. Sigh.
I am not familiar with cribbage what do you use instead of cards? What area of the world was this? The only people I really find to hate cards are usually really uberconservative religious folks because it allows you to get money for not doing something.
Finally, someone out there is actually paying attention to the minors out there. Being a minor, I know how it feels. -Z3Penguin P.S First post
Well you didn't get the first post by I know how you feel. Organizations like social services, various school "security" forces and the like are in fact ever present in schools nowadays.
I would ask this of the Pinkerton group.
On what basis does an individual have no right to due process or fair treatment? Also interactions amongst psychological related professions is in fact usually held to the strictest of confidence and on the whole nothing that should be made a general tactic to spear someone that is not dangerous.
Prying into personal affairs of individuals without their concent just because of they way that they act is in fact harassment. Just because the person in question is in fact not a major does not make them without rights. Also on what legal basis do you make claims of labeling a person "depressed" and what "treatment" does that person get to have. I understand that to some extent that the schools are en local parentis whoever don't parents have a say about how their children are to be treated by the system? Ultimately perhaps letting parents talk to their children rather than have them unvoulentarily brought before the judgement seat may be the best approach.
Acting sad/lonely/or depressed is not in and of itself a problem. What should be addressed are concerete things. Like carying drugs/guns around or other known dangerous objects.
Having a particularly plutonic frame of mind is not a bad thing in the least.
The recent spate of DDOS attacks on large corporations on the web are IMHO a good thing. The internet has become increasingly commercialised, and is now filled with such "innovations" as Java applets, Flash animations and banner ads. All these contribute to is bandwidth probelms, and we need to go back to when they weren't part of the web.
And DDoSing a bunch of people and adding more bandwidth waste won't stop waste.
The web was never designed to be a haven for companies to promote useless products, spy on users and make money from patents. We don't need them, and we certainly don't want them on our web. If DDOS attacks make them think twice about using the web, then I'm all for them.
Unfortunately I couldn't have afforded to get on the "web" back in the good old days. Companies pretty made sure the infrastructure there so I could.
Yes, but do they have throttling implemented yet? So far I've tried getting on and in the span of a minute had 15 people downloading from me. I would like to keep at least *some* of my bandwidth.
You could try limiting the perceived line speed. Just reduce your line speed to a value of say 1 kb or something like that. Social engineering works suprisingly well.
I was wondering if anyone still has or will be implimenting leech servers. It is extremely nice in a settting where one cannot modify the installed program base. However I don't think that this is something that people like very much.
If you have just one CPU and use something like the real time linux patch on your machine coupled with a fast machine wouldn't that work? I mean if you can do something much faster wouldn't the delay also be much less?
Ok programe are actually a series of many instructions couldn't the OS just be programmed to have say if you have 100 instructions that instruction 1 would be on processor one and instuction 2 be on on the second processor or just devide the program into two halves to be executed on each? How much more effort would you have to do say in a standard C++ program to get it to fully equally use the 2 processors in doing something like calculating all of the primes between 1 and 9,000,000,000,000? Are there good examples of this? What is the absolutely cheapest dual processor system that one could get? Where is this sold?
I think this would be a touch call. But I would still go with an Intel machine. For the longest time (and for the most part what I am currently reading) AMD chips are more closely designed for graphics (pretty pictures and quake). Intel machines are more number crunching. What really strikes me as a problem is that to actually get to the point where mathmetical calculations are a real problem you have to get quite far in your education. Largely CS majors don't have to (and I argue shouldn't have to) know anything above maybe say trig or so. Unless you are going to work designing something that is actually doing said math (writing Maple/Mathmatica/Mathcad) is almost not used. I have looked over the majority of code for most of the OSS applications that come in a modern Linux app and there isn't one shread of calculus level math. Also considering how many people have historically failed calculus (same with Latin and such) I think this is really hard to measure. The most complex thing I ever did was calculating something like upper levels of digits of pi with a simple C program and that worked fine for everything up to about 300,000 on a 386 I had handy. Plus isn't getting a quad CPU computer a rather large hit in the wallet? I would almost bet they don't even sell them anywhere in a local way. Also judging from the almost complete lack of advanced premade software to do such calculations I am almost at a loss to determine how such software get produced. I think that almost all of it is produced from people who have multiple PHds and such. Again the most complex piece of software that I ever saw sold was Mathmetica (can't even buy that in any local stores).
Is there any say quite easy kind of text that can teach a person say with nice graphics, tables, figures, and example problems extremely advanced math which would allow someone to get a bearing on what kind of purtchess to make? Is there an incredibly advanced software package (for some PC type system or similar Mac/Windows/Linux machines) ? Or is this all just pie in the sky stuff. The reason I say this is because most of the books beyond say standard calculus books (because people such as I find it dry, irritating, hard, and a general nightmare) are just dry tomes that present information in a difficult to comphrend way and procide few if any explanation or actual implimentation details.
Is there a general algorithm for say breaking up calculations into steps or pieces that can be done on a machine one step at a time? I mean maybe people would feel better if when calculating some problem that could take a while to solve that the steps (in say machine code/asm) could be displayed and interpreted?
You mean to tell me that there wasn't one other possible shread of anything on any subject that could have at least ended March 31 with dignity? Shit. Incidently did that originiate from a someone at aol?
1. I like music. 2. I like movies. 3. I like books. 4. I like software.
I like all four of those things you mentioned.
And the DMCA's intentions are to ensure that I keep getting all four of those things.
I would disagree and state for the reccord that in fact the people who actually insure that you get those things are in fact getting jack shit under the current system. I don't want rich executives getting the money that I wanted to say give to people like Steven King, Donald Knuth, ZZ top, Pink Floyd, or Patrick Stewart. The people who get the money are talentless bums who couldn't cary a tune in a bucket, act if a group of terrorists forced them, write a story for a small town paper, or code their way out of a paper bag.
You think I'm trolling, right? Well, you would, considering that I'm logged in AC and expressing an unpopular viewpoint (people doing that are ALWAYS trolls, right?). Just open your mind (it's not THAT hard, honest) and listen for a moment.
Still listening. The only compalint about the Ac account is that there is no way to contact the person in question of even believe that he/she will reply in any fashion to any well thought out post. It's depressing really.
As nice as it would be to get everything for free, there's no such thing as a free lunch. You can't just copy the nearest bit of work and not give the creator anything. Unfortunately, that's what the ravenous band of nascent pirates that you are seem to want to do. "It doesn't hurt anyone if I copy this CD - never mind that the artist needs every last penny he gets!" "Oh, if I copy this DVD instead of buying it, I'm only hurting the fat cats at Disney, not the guy who stayed up 72 hours straight in the editing room getting this film ready to go!" "Microsoft has enough money, they don't need mine."
Oooh "the ravenous band of nascent pirates" reading the gutenberg webster's from 1913 are we you scroundrel you:)
You must understand the ammount of money that the creator of the work receives it almost next to nothing. That guy who stayed up 72 hours straight after he has slept for a couple of days will wake up to receive a check for some small pittance of what the film actually made in any form. I think people should make money in some way but not at the expence of the average person.
I have one question: if everyone had attitudes like that, would anybody have bothered to create what you now so gleefully steal in the first place? I thought not. Or even Mattel - you so zealously defend those who steal their list of blocked websites - Mattel's OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY - and give anyone else the means to steal this same list and create their own software which simply leeches off Mattel's list maintenance staff and budget!
I have one answer: people who really enjoy creating would still create. Writers back in the old days had absolutely no possible way to assume that their works would actually be read. They created for the sake of getting their ideas out and allow for people to read them. The fact that their ideas were bought, accepted, and thought about allowed them to gain popularity and fame.
I assume that if Thoreau was still alive you would call him a red-pinko-commie-bedwetter who was destroying the role of "business" in America.
Secondly considering that a list is not proprietary in nature and that database law has not clearly backed up Mattel's point of actually having complete claim over that list. When you create a list of sites that can potentially break free speach and clients may be harmed it is a noble thing to do.
How fair is this?
In reality if the opensource movement so choosed I believe they could very effectively do something like this much better. Than even mattell. Geeks don't have any need for censorship.
What I want everyone here to do is to head down to the local video store RIGHT now and pick up a brand new DVD, just to show that you appreciate the artists and all their hard work, and what the MPAA has done to make sure they get their share.
The MPAA is just trying to make shure that the MPAA gets their fair share.
It's not that hard. And the next time you watch the movie, you'll know that you supported all the hard work that went into it, instead of simply stealing from the real producers, little by little, like you usually do. And you'll feel better for it.
You know I really don't feel better at all. In fact I can just see A group of MPAA execs laughing at this over drinks at a private party and cheering our stupidity.
Wow. A bunch of geeks are whining to Congress about a law they just don't like. I bet everyone in Washington is simply dying to hear what 31337 Linux users who have repeatedly shown that they have no respect for IP laws think about this.
Because they are voters. Voters matter to congress. Since people on slashdot are most likely people who are quite intelligent and in control of a large proportion of the nation's IT assets in one way or another we can conclude that their opinions matter in relms where laws are getting passed.
How can you scream about copyright reform when you're running Napster, downloading illegal MP3s?
Not everyone is going things like this and not all MP3s are illegal. Also you have to understand that each and every American including so called "criminals" should have equal access under the law to their elected representatives. That's why you can't have say a torture chamber in even death row. Even death row inmates have rights.
You brought this on yourselves.
Oh so I am walking home because my car broke down on the road and I am walking to a gas station. So guy robs me a gun point. So I guess I brought that on myself too right? How others choose to act in a giving setting is not directly proportional to how I have acted. If others act irrationally I am not to blame.
They saw that you were violating copyright laws, and that those laws were ineffective.
Exacly how have their pinned down the elusive "3l337 Linux users" and correlated them to some nebulous "crime" that's rich. Maybe if you actually looked and say that the main napster binary at the obvious site "http://www.napster.com" is in fact for windows and windows only. I think a fair percentage of napster servers are being run by people on windows platforms and not on linux machines.
As for gauging laws to be ineffective give me a break. Just because crime happens dosn't mean that the laws are ineffective. Right this minute I am running a gnutella client for windows on a windows NT machine. No don't bother tracing it beacuse it's in a public lab and not traceable to a unique id or anything so your dream of busting another "3l337 Linux user" won't work. The point is there are sufficient laws out there to punish pirates and others. Why you obviously don't realize is that it's the lack of enforcement of our current laws that makes the system or the laws supposedly "ineffective".
Imagine if no matter where you are in any country if you violate the speed limit you get a ticket and a fine. No imagine that this law is passed and strictly monitored.
That's right even if you go over the speed limit by as much a.000000001 km/h or mil/h you get a ticket and if this happens enough you loose your liscence. This theoretically could happen.
The same goes for copyright and patent issues. You have to actually enforce them with the standard set of laws to your fullest ability before you add more and more oppressive laws to your plate. Until then don't complain that crimes are happening unless you get everyone under the current laws.
Are there any real sites based on the "Slashcode"? I certainly haven't seen any. And if not, why does anyone care about this? It's not like it's doing anyone a whole lot of good or anything. Really - what's yet another bloated, overblown, messy, ugly Perl script going to do for me? Nothing, that's exactly what.
You like to flame huh? I would give up a good deal juts to be able to run the slash code or in fact any server type code on a web site. Being a sysadmin is a luxry that I do not have at the present time.
What slashdot has done rather successfully is take the concept of a nested and web based interative dynamic type of medium that usenet could only dream of. By eliminating the need for a specific client you make your access to millions instead of a trusted group of elites. It really depends on what you want to do. I think that the ability to dynamically add stories and bits of interest in a dynamic way is good. I was toying around with the idea of having dynamic content that could update a web page remotely. The only good script that I have seen as of yet has been one that hasn't worked on any of the unix systems I have tried it on despite using the portable perl language. I wish to god I could get this to work on one of the "free" sites. A few of them allow for the perl language but I haven't found one that would have both mySQL and perl with the necessary extensions. But I have a good idea why. Control C-O-N-T-R-O-L in it's most basic form. Oh sure speech is free but the presses aren't.
I don't understand this about the "Open Source" movement at all - there's all this messy code floating around out there that nobody would ever use in their right mind, and you've got to wade through so much of it just to find some decent software, much less what you're looking for. It's probably no coincidence that Freshmeat, Slashdot's sister site, is one of the worst perpetrators of this travesty.
I think you miss the point entirely about the open source methodology. Essentially the code is out there to be fixed. That's about like saying that if you go to a garage and see people working on broken cars. They are doing this not to say that these cars work but that they are actively fixing them. What's happening here is a little less like a garage and more like a group of people "souping up" a car not only to fix the carburator but to give it a nice tune up when it's needed.
I, personally, believe that RMS and ERS and crew have some serious revising to do if the "Open Source" movement is to remain viable. First step would be to tell people that until their code is usable and cleaned up and ready for a 1.0 release, they should keep it to themselves!. Second, of course, would be to not throw it out on the web if you can't think of at least fifty people who'd want to use it - you're just cluttering the spiders and wasting your disk. This applies equally as much to the Slash code.
You know I remember another AC who was whining and spamming a discussion with a discussion about the slashdot not being open. Multiple bitched and whined about it and then finally Malda got tired of having his mail box filled with 100,000,000 requests to open source the code and released it.
He knew damn well the code wasn't ready but he was pressured to release it. I personally thing the code is better for his decision and bugs that were possibly hindering the code have been worked out much more quickly.
Don't get me wrong - I think "Open Source" is an excellent idea. I just think the implementation is flawed.
You know I think it's people like you who deliberately make me wait for updates to my favorite open source updates and debian packages because you like seeing people squirm. There is no good technical argument that would support such a thing. Source should be open. The version dosn't matter because most projects are works in progress. I think the ultimate progress of systems is the main goal and not 100% stability.
In short if I want to risk my system with untested code I should be able to. If you want trusted code get a good linux distribution linux slackware 2.0 and update the entire thing by hand from source and do all the updates yourself. I tried that route and got insanely irritated with the results (which were usually very, very, frustrating because of little problems and not so little problems.
Slashdot Mirror
"I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, cloning and genetic engineering delve into areas that will only harm the planet in the long run."
My existience is first priority over any warm fuzzies that I get from the earth. If I have a choice of doing something for the earth and allowing my life to go on I will always choose life and the ability to make a difference with what really counts our human race.
"This planet is already over populated with humans. We, as humans, are constantly destroying
our environment with deforestation, polution, etc."
Ok so bad people do bad things I think that is unarguable. However I doubt that the planet is "overpopulated" We are just lazy and stupid when it comes to building efficent structures and using pre existing land that we have. Eventually people die. The system works quite well.
"Nature has a way of dealing with this sort of thing."
There is little proof that "nature" does anything let alone intelligently.
"There was system of "checks and balances", so to speak, that kept species levels at an equalibrium."
Yeah it's called sustainable population. This works because other creatures are not scentient(sp) beings. I have feelings. I will not give up my life just to keep things in "equalibrium".
"With the advancement of medicines, genetic engineering, etc, we humans have altered that system that will eventually lead to the end, unless of course, we can find another planet to live on before then. "
*sarcasm* Oops there go those nasty humans trying to make things better: bad humans!*sarcasm*
"Taxes - Does an AI/MI need to pay taxes? "
How would they earn actual money doing anything?
"Whatever dude, you are just beating yourself to death here. The AI will respond however it is PROGRAMMED to respond, not how you think it should.. They are machines, and quite honestly I dont think AI, will ever be as
complex as my mind. Yup I am a naysayer to this whole deal. And you are just off on planet 9. I wont be suprised if it happens, but I doubt it will. And even then, ill take a person to a computer ANY day. Period. You sound like a
lonely guy in need of a little friendship.. "
Computers have been supposedly been advancing left and right with complexity. Human beings have a nasty reputation of doing rotten horrible things for fun and profit. Generally I think that any advance that actually allows said technology to do something without you needing to study it for 10+ years is a good thing.
If you think I am totally off base here look at the research into something called "fuzzy logic" and then think about it for a moment. Someone could say that people are "programmed" through a series of events that happen in their lives. I have had various events that either made me happier or sorrowful because of what they did to me. Why not base some form of logic and analyze events that could then act in such a way. All you have to do is make the actual ideas and concepts a little less arcane and you have a workable answer.
Yeah I may be lonely but don't I have at least some point? People are a somewhat bad liability. People condemn the government because of it's people that make it up. The system is fine it's just the idiots running the show. You have to really look at things really hard. Doing something just to uncover the boring scientific truth is getting old for me. Everything I have read and stidied in my education has about the boring facts. I really like the concepts more.
Plus it dosn't help that they make the learning curve so steep.
"how do you justify recycling the same old tired response to AI?"
I think he's just responding to the natural level of skepticism that greets the development of AI and the meaning of the word "good".
Many people probably thought that Eliza was the best thing they had ever seen between the time when AI became possible and maybe 10 years into the future from that time.
I could also say that perhaps if you have games that can predict user interactions and give a more challenging or crafty response in games that would be an advance. It just depends on the reference to the idea.
"Wouldn't it be a real ego-crusher if they were rejected by their computer? I mean, giving a computer free will also means giving it likes and dislikes, and anyone who doesn;t have any friends to begin with would probably have
trouble making friends with a computer as well. "
I think I would debate this with you. Essentially I think that a computer being a more rational and more prone to Vulcan like behaviour would almost certainly be a little more objective than people who judge on looks or wealth, or whatever. The only way I think that an early version of this would be able to judge a person would be what he/she typed on the keyboard or perhaps that could extend to audio input. Plus why would anyone want to create a thing that hated you.
How many of you would want a BOFH controlling your unix box.
Computer I need more space disk space for this new game.
Computer: ok..clickety..clickety yup all done
Wait a minute what happened to my thesis?
"That is the religious side to the ethics problem. There is also a legal side to the problem. If artificial intelligence is created, who is responsible for it. You've seen the Matrix, it's a little extreme but the point is still there. If you create
a machine that has AI, who is responsible for that machines actions. If your car has an AI driving system in it and you have a wreck, is Ford responsible? "
I think that you might try reasoning with the machine so that perhaps it dosn't try to hurt or kill you. Think of the possibilities. No people wouldn't have any need to be lonely or afraid ever again. People who never thought they had a friend in the world could have a machine as their friend. Perhaps one could have a little conversation with your computer.
You: Miss computer if you promise not to BSOD on my for the rest of the day you will get a new Ram upgrade how about it?
Computer: alrighty no BSODs for today. Hmmm ram...
"What do you say to the people that feel it is unethical to try to create "intelligence"? "
Could you please explain why in any way it would be unethical to create "intelligence". I just don't get it. I think it would be a compassionate act. Just think if your computer could tell you what it really feels when you sit and play quake on it for hours on end or just swear at it because it just did what you told it? I mean literally giving a machine a choice wheather or not to be a slave is not a bad thing in my book.
Now granted these ideas are in fact a little kooky but still I think that they are not in the least unethical.
Are there any attempts to get AI research into a more less challenging fashion? I mean I would think that the way the OSS movement has benefited from mass proliferation of information in creating code the same could be said for the likes of AI.
Are there any good AI programs of simulations besides things like doctor.el for emacs? I would assume that there are also other languages than the vaunted lisp that I have heard so much about (but can't find a single good book at a bookstore or a single class that teaches this locally)? I have seen at least one book that used C++ designing so called "expert systems" but that was a little beyond me.
Also are the claims of various games to support advanced AI really true?
precentable?
Couldn't you create say a random mirror image of a "clean" hd each time a call was made from the program to look at the hd?
And that would be what exactly my dear AC? If you don't like the post then don't reply to it. But hey that's just the logical conclusion and when has logic clouded slashdot at any time?
The page that I first say when I got the 500 error was basically citeing another individual who was (I think at least) not directly related to the main core of slashdot developers. Also considering that the page was perhaps generated from somewhere else. Some host called linuxxxx.dn.net or something like that (may be horribly inaccurate).
What is also very interesting is that even in lynx (standard almost as miniminalistic as it gets) it didn't work well at all. And this was after 10+ times of trying to fetch the page (just didn't respond to my http get request.
I have been thinking about what our society has turned out to be like as of late and I find that I almost can't see why the world would be that much better off with things like these and all sorts of vague hard to impliment and hard to use tools.
Could someone actually inform me as to how the actual man on the street has any input to the future with this or any other tool that has been developed.
The main idea behind this is supposedly that people can run a server and act a s amedium for things that others would like the world to see. But then why do most ISPs that allow for cable modem access not very willing to let people run servers on them? All this is essentially doing is basically making data hard to reach and hence hard to utilize. I think I can safely say that a voice in this world is fast becomming impossible to gain. All of the programming that I have done in the past oh cumulatively about 3 years and I still can't write one single thing that anyone would give a damn about. Not to mention how steep the learning curve has become for almost any topic under the sun. All these people have to do to actually ruin this idea is real diabolically simple. Oh well you have to run an efficient network right? Well then you have to pay for some massive pipe into your house. I have yet to see one ISP in all of the USA let alone any region that I live in that would offer at least the option of running any
server code what so ever. Then do you know what people do? They have the equivelent of T-1 access and all they do is just sit there on it and do relatively nothing. Prices are still too high to do almost anything interesting or fun. And from what I can tell the job markeyt is slowing for all the realy cool stuff. Also one of the things that also really scares me is that the use of java to impliment the client: well it's portable but then why do I have to use something that is totally geared to just doing networking and graphics.
What I eventually see if that people will have to go to school for 20 years and design some massive project just to get a place of decent employment. That is the scary thing. All people in this world have to do to really screw you is to eliminate choice and the rest of the general black pillar of misery will follow.
People want to control little fiefdoms and ruin the little guy's chances of doing anything. Not only that but the sheer contempt for the learning is apaling from what I have seen.
So I really would like this question answered instead of the standard kettle of flames:
In the most cost effective manner possible what is the best way to gain true power for a communications medium. In otherwords for the lowest cost how can I have my own machine running one of these fandangled servers under very low system requirements and for little problem. I want to just basically get a medium that can't be stolen from me or used as another example of why the even slightly less endowed are going to get screwed over.
No I don't like the concept of another taking editorial control over me and I don't like the concept of being forced to pay thousands of USD each and every month for the right to publish ideas.
One of the main reasons I even give a rat's ass about most of the developments that have even happened (including this one) was that I had some folorn hope that I a human who has pretty much lost the ball game and never really hit a home run be able to actually get some pride and do something that was worth anything.
However these technologies take things for a given which I find scary.
The idea that you must rely on a third party to communicate and constantly rely on external computers and the possibility that those computers may be more unreliable than your own. The fact that you may be without any chance to do something when the sticking point really gets there. Until internet access is always on and always there like a simple telephone I think I can say many, many developments and ideas may be left out in the cold.
I think that saying something is more of a right than a priviledge in this world and I for one would be more than happy to stand up for that belief.
LOL! my nerdy friends and I used to sit outside the library and play cribbage because, altho we were fair friends with the librarian, he thought cards were the tool of the devil. Sigh.
I am not familiar with cribbage what do you use instead of cards? What area of the world was this? The only people I really find to hate cards are usually really uberconservative religious folks because it allows you to get money for not doing something.
Finally, someone out there is actually paying attention to the minors out there. Being a minor, I know how it feels. -Z3Penguin P.S First post
Well you didn't get the first post by I know how you feel. Organizations like social services, various school "security" forces and the like are in fact ever present in schools nowadays.
I would ask this of the Pinkerton group.
On what basis does an individual have no right to due process or fair treatment? Also interactions amongst psychological related professions is in fact usually held to the strictest of confidence and on the whole nothing that should be made a general tactic to spear someone that is not dangerous.
Prying into personal affairs of individuals without their concent just because of they way that they act is in fact harassment. Just because the person in question is in fact not a major does not make them without rights. Also on what legal basis do you make claims of labeling a person "depressed" and what "treatment" does that person get to have. I understand that to some extent that the schools are en local parentis whoever don't parents have a say about how their children are to be treated by the system? Ultimately perhaps letting parents talk to their children rather than have them unvoulentarily brought before the judgement seat may be the best approach.
Acting sad/lonely/or depressed is not in and of itself a problem. What should be addressed are concerete things. Like carying drugs/guns around or other known dangerous objects.
Having a particularly plutonic frame of mind is not a bad thing in the least.
The recent spate of DDOS attacks on large corporations on the web are IMHO a good thing. The internet has become increasingly commercialised, and is now filled with such "innovations" as Java applets, Flash animations and
banner ads. All these contribute to is bandwidth probelms, and we need to go back to when they weren't part of the web.
And DDoSing a bunch of people and adding more bandwidth waste won't stop waste.
The web was never designed to be a haven for companies to promote useless products, spy on users and make money from patents. We don't need them, and we certainly don't want them on our web. If DDOS attacks make them
think twice about using the web, then I'm all for them.
Unfortunately I couldn't have afforded to get on the "web" back in the good old days. Companies pretty made sure the infrastructure there so I could.
Yes, but do they have throttling implemented yet? So far I've tried getting on and in the span of a minute had 15 people downloading from me. I would like to keep at least *some* of my bandwidth.
You could try limiting the perceived line speed. Just reduce your line speed to a value of say 1 kb or something like that. Social engineering works suprisingly well.
I was wondering if anyone still has or will be implimenting leech servers. It is extremely nice in a settting where one cannot modify the installed program base. However I don't think that this is something that people like very much.
And where can they be bought in (MST) zone? I haven't seen too many around and not too many on pricewatch. Areen't they discontinuing the alpha line?
If you have just one CPU and use something like the real time linux patch on your machine coupled with a fast machine wouldn't that work?
I mean if you can do something much faster wouldn't the delay also be much less?
Ok programe are actually a series of many instructions couldn't the OS just be programmed to have say if you have 100 instructions that instruction 1 would be on processor one and instuction 2 be on on the second processor or just devide the program into two halves to be executed on each?
How much more effort would you have to do say in a standard C++ program to get it to fully equally use the 2 processors in doing something like calculating all of the primes between 1 and 9,000,000,000,000? Are there good examples of this? What is the absolutely cheapest dual processor system that one could get? Where is this sold?
I think this would be a touch call. But I would still go with an Intel machine. For the longest time (and for the most part what I am currently reading) AMD chips are more closely designed for graphics (pretty pictures and quake). Intel machines are more number crunching.
What really strikes me as a problem is that to actually get to the point where mathmetical calculations are a real problem you have to get quite far in your education. Largely CS majors don't have to (and I argue shouldn't have to) know anything above maybe say trig or so.
Unless you are going to work designing something that is actually doing said math (writing Maple/Mathmatica/Mathcad) is almost not used. I have looked over the majority of code for most of the OSS applications that come in a modern Linux app and there isn't one shread of calculus level math. Also considering how many people have historically failed calculus (same with Latin and such) I think this is really hard to measure. The most complex thing I ever did was calculating something like upper levels of digits of pi with a simple C program and that worked fine for everything up to about 300,000 on a 386 I had handy. Plus isn't getting a quad CPU computer a rather large hit in the wallet? I would almost bet they don't even sell them anywhere in a local way. Also judging from the almost complete lack of advanced premade software to do such calculations I am almost at a loss to determine how such software get produced. I think that almost all of it is produced from people who have multiple PHds and such.
Again the most complex piece of software that I ever saw sold was Mathmetica (can't even buy that in any local stores).
Is there any say quite easy kind of text that can teach a person say with nice graphics, tables, figures, and example problems extremely advanced math which would allow someone to get a bearing on what kind of purtchess to make? Is there an incredibly advanced software package (for some PC type system or similar Mac/Windows/Linux machines) ? Or is this all just pie in the sky stuff.
The reason I say this is because most of the books beyond say standard calculus books (because people such as I find it dry, irritating, hard, and a general nightmare) are just dry tomes that present information in a difficult to comphrend way and procide few if any explanation or actual implimentation details.
Is there a general algorithm for say breaking up calculations into steps or pieces that can be done on a machine one step at a time? I mean maybe people would feel better if when calculating some problem that could take a while to solve that the steps (in say machine code/asm) could be displayed and interpreted?
You mean to tell me that there wasn't one other possible shread of anything on any subject that could have at least ended March 31 with dignity? Shit.
Incidently did that originiate from a someone at aol?
And here are a few reasons why:
:)
Oh this should be rich.
1. I like music.
2. I like movies.
3. I like books.
4. I like software.
I like all four of those things you mentioned.
And the DMCA's intentions are to ensure that I keep getting all four of those things.
I would disagree and state for the reccord that in fact the people who actually insure that you get those things are in fact getting jack shit under the current system. I don't want rich executives getting the money that I wanted to say give to people like Steven King, Donald Knuth, ZZ top, Pink Floyd, or Patrick Stewart. The people who get the money are talentless bums who couldn't cary a tune in a bucket, act if a group of terrorists forced them, write a story for a small town paper, or code their way out of a paper bag.
You think I'm trolling, right? Well, you would, considering that I'm logged in AC and expressing an unpopular viewpoint (people doing that are ALWAYS trolls, right?). Just open your mind (it's not THAT hard, honest) and
listen for a moment.
Still listening. The only compalint about the Ac account is that there is no way to contact the person in question of even believe that he/she will reply in any fashion to any well thought out post. It's depressing really.
As nice as it would be to get everything for free, there's no such thing as a free lunch. You can't just copy the nearest bit of work and not give the creator anything. Unfortunately, that's what the ravenous band of nascent pirates that
you are seem to want to do. "It doesn't hurt anyone if I copy this CD - never mind that the artist needs every last penny he gets!" "Oh, if I copy this DVD instead of buying it, I'm only hurting the fat cats at Disney, not the guy who
stayed up 72 hours straight in the editing room getting this film ready to go!" "Microsoft has enough money, they don't need mine."
Oooh "the ravenous band of nascent pirates" reading the gutenberg webster's from 1913 are we you scroundrel you
You must understand the ammount of money that the creator of the work receives it almost next to nothing. That guy who stayed up 72 hours straight after he has slept for a couple of days will wake up to receive a check for some small pittance of what the film actually made in any form. I think people should make money in some way but not at the expence of the average person.
I have one question: if everyone had attitudes like that, would anybody have bothered to create what you now so gleefully steal in the first place? I thought not. Or even Mattel - you so zealously defend those who steal their list of
blocked websites - Mattel's OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY - and give anyone else the means to steal this same list and create their own software which simply leeches off Mattel's list maintenance staff and budget!
I have one answer: people who really enjoy creating would still create. Writers back in the old days had absolutely no possible way to assume that their works would actually be read. They created for the sake of getting their ideas out and allow for people to read them. The fact that their ideas were bought, accepted, and thought about allowed them to gain popularity and fame.
I assume that if Thoreau was still alive you would call him a red-pinko-commie-bedwetter who was destroying the role of "business" in America.
Secondly considering that a list is not proprietary in nature and that database law has not clearly backed up Mattel's point of actually having complete claim over that list. When you create a list of sites that can potentially break free speach and clients may be harmed it is a noble thing to do.
How fair is this?
In reality if the opensource movement so choosed I believe they could very effectively do something like this much better. Than even mattell. Geeks don't have any need for censorship.
What I want everyone here to do is to head down to the local video store RIGHT now and pick up a brand new DVD, just to show that you appreciate the artists and all their hard work, and what the MPAA has done to make sure
they get their share.
The MPAA is just trying to make shure that the MPAA gets their fair share.
It's not that hard. And the next time you watch the movie, you'll know that you supported all the hard work that went into it, instead of simply stealing from the real producers, little by little, like you usually do. And you'll feel
better for it.
You know I really don't feel better at all. In fact I can just see A group of MPAA execs laughing at this over drinks at a private party and cheering our stupidity.
Wow. A bunch of geeks are whining to Congress about a law they just don't like. I bet everyone in Washington is simply dying to hear what 31337 Linux users who have repeatedly shown that they have no respect for IP laws think
.000000001 km/h or mil/h you get a ticket and if this happens enough you loose your liscence. This theoretically could happen.
about this.
Because they are voters. Voters matter to congress. Since people on slashdot are most likely people who are quite intelligent and in control of a large proportion of the nation's IT assets in one way or another we can conclude that their opinions matter in relms where laws are getting passed.
How can you scream about copyright reform when you're running Napster, downloading illegal MP3s?
Not everyone is going things like this and not all MP3s are illegal. Also you have to understand that each and every American including so called "criminals" should have equal access under the law to their elected representatives. That's why you can't have say a torture chamber in even death row. Even death row inmates have rights.
You brought this on yourselves.
Oh so I am walking home because my car broke down on the road and I am walking to a gas station. So guy robs me a gun point. So I guess I brought that on myself too right? How others choose to act in a giving setting is not directly proportional to how I have acted. If others act irrationally I am not to blame.
They saw that you were violating copyright laws, and that those laws were ineffective.
Exacly how have their pinned down the elusive "3l337 Linux users" and correlated them to some nebulous "crime" that's rich. Maybe if you actually looked and say that the main napster binary at the obvious site "http://www.napster.com" is in fact for windows and windows only. I think a fair percentage of napster servers are being run by people on windows platforms and not on linux machines.
As for gauging laws to be ineffective give me a break. Just because crime happens dosn't mean that the laws are ineffective. Right this minute I am running a gnutella client for windows on a windows NT machine. No don't bother tracing it beacuse it's in a public lab and not traceable to a unique id or anything so your dream of busting another "3l337 Linux user" won't work. The point is there are sufficient laws out there to punish pirates and others. Why you obviously don't realize is that it's the lack of enforcement of our current laws that makes the system or the laws supposedly "ineffective".
Imagine if no matter where you are in any country if you violate the speed limit you get a ticket and a fine. No imagine that this law is passed and strictly monitored.
That's right even if you go over the speed limit by as much a
The same goes for copyright and patent issues. You have to actually enforce them with the standard set of laws to your fullest ability before you add more and more oppressive laws to your plate. Until then don't complain that crimes are happening unless you get everyone under the current laws.
Are there any real sites based on the "Slashcode"? I certainly haven't seen any. And if not, why does anyone care about this? It's not like it's doing anyone a whole lot of good or anything. Really - what's yet another bloated,
overblown, messy, ugly Perl script going to do for me? Nothing, that's exactly what.
You like to flame huh? I would give up a good deal juts to be able to run the slash code or in fact any server type code on a web site. Being a sysadmin is a luxry that I do not have at the present time.
What slashdot has done rather successfully is take the concept of a nested and web based interative dynamic type of medium that usenet could only dream of. By eliminating the need for a specific client you make your access to millions instead of a trusted group of elites. It really depends on what you want to do. I think that the ability to dynamically add stories and bits of interest in a dynamic way is good. I was toying around with the idea of having dynamic content that could update a web page remotely. The only good script that I have seen as of yet has been one that hasn't worked on any of the unix systems I have tried it on despite using the portable perl language. I wish to god I could get this to work on one of the "free" sites. A few of them allow for the perl language but I haven't found one that would have both mySQL and perl with the necessary extensions. But I have a good idea why. Control C-O-N-T-R-O-L in it's most basic form. Oh sure speech is free but the presses aren't.
I don't understand this about the "Open Source" movement at all - there's all this messy code floating around out there that nobody would ever use in their right mind, and you've got to wade through so much of it just to find some
decent software, much less what you're looking for. It's probably no coincidence that Freshmeat, Slashdot's sister site, is one of the worst perpetrators of this travesty.
I think you miss the point entirely about the open source methodology. Essentially the code is out there to be fixed. That's about like saying that if you go to a garage and see people working on broken cars. They are doing this not to say that these cars work but that they are actively fixing them. What's happening here is a little less like a garage and more like a group of people "souping up" a car not only to fix the carburator but to give it a nice tune up when it's needed.
I, personally, believe that RMS and ERS and crew have some serious revising to do if the "Open Source" movement is to remain viable. First step would be to tell people that until their code is usable and cleaned up and ready for a
1.0 release, they should keep it to themselves!. Second, of course, would be to not throw it out on the web if you can't think of at least fifty people who'd want to use it - you're just cluttering the spiders and wasting your disk. This
applies equally as much to the Slash code.
You know I remember another AC who was whining and spamming a discussion with a discussion about the slashdot not being open. Multiple bitched and whined about it and then finally Malda got tired of having his mail box filled with 100,000,000 requests to open source the code and released it.
He knew damn well the code wasn't ready but he was pressured to release it. I personally thing the code is better for his decision and bugs that were possibly hindering the code have been worked out much more quickly.
Don't get me wrong - I think "Open Source" is an excellent idea. I just think the implementation is flawed.
You know I think it's people like you who deliberately make me wait for updates to my favorite open source updates and debian packages because you like seeing people squirm. There is no good technical argument that would support such a thing. Source should be open. The version dosn't matter because most projects are works in progress. I think the ultimate progress of systems is the main goal and not 100% stability.
In short if I want to risk my system with untested code I should be able to. If you want trusted code get a good linux distribution linux slackware 2.0 and update the entire thing by hand from source and do all the updates yourself. I tried that route and got insanely irritated with the results (which were usually very, very, frustrating because of little problems and not so little problems.