There are some violent BLM protesters. The entire movement does not stand for doing violence. So that's the false equivalence.
Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists on the other hand are inherently violent groups. It isn't just a matter of a few errant members, it's that their entire worldview is fundamentally antisocial.
And I'll repeat, I'm not talking about revoking permits or using any state power to limit their right to free speech. They have as much right to the commons as anyone else, providing they remain within the bounds of the law. What I'm saying is that these attempts by certain conservative elements to whitewash what these white supremacist groups really are needs to stop, and that needs to start with the President of the United States not grouping Neo-Nazis in with groups like BLM and Antifa. I don't support what every BLM and Antifa supporter does, but in general I support the notion that African-Americans be treated fairly and without bias, and that Fascists be challenged at every turn.
He didn't really denounce them at all until 48 hours after the events. What he did was make some general statement against violence, basically trying to equate the anti-fascist protesters with a pack of Nazi thugs. It was only when members of his own party began calling him out, and even his own press people couldn't really explain his unwillingness to call out the Nazis (many of which seemed quite keen to make the association between themselves and the President), that he finally made an explicit condemnation of the white supremacists.
Antifa can be pains in the ass, but there's no real history in the US of Antifa abusing anyone, but there is a very long history of minorities being targeted by white supremacists.
I'm not saying anyone should revoke their right to peaceful protest. I'm saying that all these false equivalencies with BLM and the like look at best like whatabouterry, and at worst an outright attempt to white wash (excuse the pun) what these Neo-Nazis really are.
He'd probably fit somewhere in the moderate wing of the NDP. The NDP does have its own further left fringe, moreso in the past than now, but these days they've been trying to rebrand themselves as social democrats, much as Labour is trying to do in the UK.
Honestly, these accusations that Democrats (in the US), NDP (in Canada) and Labour (in the UK) as being neo-Marxist types is just absurd, either shouted by idiots or by people who are trying to create some sort of false association.
If Sanders was PM of, say, Denmark, he'd pretty much be in the political center. But in the US, because just about all politicians are in fact one brand of "Tory" or another, he looks far left. The US doesn't have a far left political movement of note since the Depression.
Jesus Fucking Christ, there are damned few actual socialists in the United States. There is, however, a long sad sordid history of racism in the United States.
I think there are some anti-immigrant types who are out and out racists. I think there are some who have legitimate concerns. I think most have been convinced immigration is some sort of great evil. In other words, the Nazis are only a small subset of anti-immigrant types.
And what exactly are the consequences? Trump is making himself toxic, and the more toxic he becomes, the more he sheds support. He really has no support in the Senate at all, and only a fairly small faction in the House that would stick their neck out for him. Quit blaming other people for Trump's ignorance and stupidity.
The closest the Dems have to a Communist is Sanders, and some might argue he's only a Democrat of convenience, but even if you accept him as a full-fledged member, just about anywhere else in the world he'd be considered a social democrat, the kind of person that has, by and large, run most European countries since the end of the Second World War. There hasn't been a meaningful Communist movement in the United States since the 1930s, and most Democrats would be viewed as moderate Tories in Canada or the UK.
Well, if there's one positive attribute of the Trump presidency, it's that Congress is going to pull back a whole lot of powers that it deferred to the Presidency over the last seventy years or so. Ringfencing Russia sanctions are only the beginning. I'll wager there's probably drafts of bills to prevent him from buggering up trade agreements, ringfence the FBI and a whole host of other initiatives that will come down the pike. The US Government is kind of like the Internet, it routes around damage, and while Trump can still do a lot of it, a good deal of the modern Presidential powers aren't in fact constitutional, but statutory.
He sure isn't going to improve it by fucking over Canada and Mexico in NAFTA renegotiations. Trump's knowledge on trade and economics is equal to his knowledge in just about every other area; nil to none. The man truly is a profound idiot, but hopefully once Bannon is gone, he'll be surrounded by a few less idiots.
Absolutely. My great-uncle was picking shrapnel out of his body for a couple of years after shooting up Nazis in France. Why suddenly is wanting to fuck over Nazis suddenly a bad thing?
Christ, in the 30s and 40s Woody Guthrie had "This Machine Kills Fascists" scrawled on his guitars. I can only imagine the Alt-right outrage at that now.
At what point was society required to show deference to a pack of white supremacists and fascists? Where did this transformation come from? How did we get from D-Day and the Civil Rights movement to bowing down to the sacred right of Nazis to preach hate? Sure, they have the right, but goddamnit, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers (depending on your age) stuck their fucking necks out, went to Europe, Africa and Asia to fight Fascists, so fucking hell, having a counterprotest and maybe even a few punches thrown at these goons is more than they deserve, and better than they got when we marching troops and tanks into their ideological progenitors' cities and bombing the living fuck out of them.
Unless the boss is becoming so toxic that being seen anywhere near him could make you part of the collateral damage when he falls.
And it's not like Trump's doing anything wonderful for Intel. Trump's unorthodox views on trade and immigration pose a threat to Silicon Valley, so what good does it do to sit on some sort of advisory council where none of your advice will be taken? Add in Trump's bizarre inability to call out racists, well, I'd say this is a pretty good example of rats fleeing the ship.
It's reaching a point where if this unpopularity is sustained into next year, it's going to really fuck over the midterms for the Republicans. There's a lot of faith been put in General Kelly that he can impose order on the chaos in the White House, and maybe impose some discipline on Trump, but if the incredible, almost unbelievable mishandling of Charlottesville is any indication (seriously, how hard is it to call out white supremacists by name?), then I'd say Kelly has been an utter failure thus far.
There's still time for Trump to pull himself out of this tailspin, but I'm just not convinced he's intellectually or emotionally capable of doing what needs to be done. He seems completely dedicated to destroying his own presidency.
He can't even give a speech to the Boy Scouts without acting like a bloviating halfwit. But fumbling calling out Neo-Nazis? Really? That's got to be the easiest thing a president could do. Wag your finger, say "Shame shame shame!" That's what's expected of you.
I have no ideas whether the rumors are true that Bannon was the one who cautioned against speaking too strongly against the white supremacists, but the rumors that Bannon's time at the White House is coming to an end would certainly mesh well. But it comes too late for this.
I don't know whether Donald Trump is actually a racist or not, but one thing is certain, he lacks any real judgment, and relies on his advisers and proxies, some of which are clearly both malignant and naive.
The other question is just how much value do these CEOs actually get? The President is so u reliable and so prone to fits of pique that can he be relied upon to listen, or to stick with any commitment?
It really is coming to look like everyone; Congress, the courts, business, are all simply routing around the White House.
If you don't want to be outed as a Nazi, don't march with Nazis. At least the KKK had enough wits to wear hoods. Not that they often had to worry, since in many places the local government was either sympathetic or out and out members.
Still, if you're a proud White Supremacist, how could you possibly have a problem with your family, your neighbors, your boss and coworkers knowing that you espouse those views? I mean, aren't you on the right side of history believing that America is white and working to get rid of all those brown skinned people who are perverting your precious bodily fluids? Why on earth would you have a problem with people identifying you?
Then let them have to work harder. It was far better when being a Neo-Nazi meant a lot of "wink wink nudge nudge" and secret meetings in basements, and having a subscription to racist literature produced via cheap mimeograph and sent in a plain brown envelope.
The problem now is that the "dispossessed" can find extremist literature far too easily; whether that be young Muslim men finding ISIS propaganda, or young white men being able to find Storm Front, and once they're there, the speed at which they can be radicalized is truly astonishing.
So yes, I think hosting companies at the very least making sure they're not the ones helping radicalize is a good thing.
If your views are so toxic that no one will do business with you, well then that's the marketplace at work. And I still don't buy that the government has even the tiniest bit of obligation to offer you a helping hand.
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There are some violent BLM protesters. The entire movement does not stand for doing violence. So that's the false equivalence.
Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists on the other hand are inherently violent groups. It isn't just a matter of a few errant members, it's that their entire worldview is fundamentally antisocial.
And I'll repeat, I'm not talking about revoking permits or using any state power to limit their right to free speech. They have as much right to the commons as anyone else, providing they remain within the bounds of the law. What I'm saying is that these attempts by certain conservative elements to whitewash what these white supremacist groups really are needs to stop, and that needs to start with the President of the United States not grouping Neo-Nazis in with groups like BLM and Antifa. I don't support what every BLM and Antifa supporter does, but in general I support the notion that African-Americans be treated fairly and without bias, and that Fascists be challenged at every turn.
He didn't really denounce them at all until 48 hours after the events. What he did was make some general statement against violence, basically trying to equate the anti-fascist protesters with a pack of Nazi thugs. It was only when members of his own party began calling him out, and even his own press people couldn't really explain his unwillingness to call out the Nazis (many of which seemed quite keen to make the association between themselves and the President), that he finally made an explicit condemnation of the white supremacists.
Antifa can be pains in the ass, but there's no real history in the US of Antifa abusing anyone, but there is a very long history of minorities being targeted by white supremacists.
I'm not saying anyone should revoke their right to peaceful protest. I'm saying that all these false equivalencies with BLM and the like look at best like whatabouterry, and at worst an outright attempt to white wash (excuse the pun) what these Neo-Nazis really are.
He'd probably fit somewhere in the moderate wing of the NDP. The NDP does have its own further left fringe, moreso in the past than now, but these days they've been trying to rebrand themselves as social democrats, much as Labour is trying to do in the UK.
Honestly, these accusations that Democrats (in the US), NDP (in Canada) and Labour (in the UK) as being neo-Marxist types is just absurd, either shouted by idiots or by people who are trying to create some sort of false association.
If Sanders was PM of, say, Denmark, he'd pretty much be in the political center. But in the US, because just about all politicians are in fact one brand of "Tory" or another, he looks far left. The US doesn't have a far left political movement of note since the Depression.
Jesus Fucking Christ, there are damned few actual socialists in the United States. There is, however, a long sad sordid history of racism in the United States.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com...
I think there are some anti-immigrant types who are out and out racists. I think there are some who have legitimate concerns. I think most have been convinced immigration is some sort of great evil. In other words, the Nazis are only a small subset of anti-immigrant types.
And what exactly are the consequences? Trump is making himself toxic, and the more toxic he becomes, the more he sheds support. He really has no support in the Senate at all, and only a fairly small faction in the House that would stick their neck out for him. Quit blaming other people for Trump's ignorance and stupidity.
The closest the Dems have to a Communist is Sanders, and some might argue he's only a Democrat of convenience, but even if you accept him as a full-fledged member, just about anywhere else in the world he'd be considered a social democrat, the kind of person that has, by and large, run most European countries since the end of the Second World War. There hasn't been a meaningful Communist movement in the United States since the 1930s, and most Democrats would be viewed as moderate Tories in Canada or the UK.
Well, if there's one positive attribute of the Trump presidency, it's that Congress is going to pull back a whole lot of powers that it deferred to the Presidency over the last seventy years or so. Ringfencing Russia sanctions are only the beginning. I'll wager there's probably drafts of bills to prevent him from buggering up trade agreements, ringfence the FBI and a whole host of other initiatives that will come down the pike. The US Government is kind of like the Internet, it routes around damage, and while Trump can still do a lot of it, a good deal of the modern Presidential powers aren't in fact constitutional, but statutory.
He sure isn't going to improve it by fucking over Canada and Mexico in NAFTA renegotiations. Trump's knowledge on trade and economics is equal to his knowledge in just about every other area; nil to none. The man truly is a profound idiot, but hopefully once Bannon is gone, he'll be surrounded by a few less idiots.
Absolutely. My great-uncle was picking shrapnel out of his body for a couple of years after shooting up Nazis in France. Why suddenly is wanting to fuck over Nazis suddenly a bad thing?
Christ, in the 30s and 40s Woody Guthrie had "This Machine Kills Fascists" scrawled on his guitars. I can only imagine the Alt-right outrage at that now.
At what point was society required to show deference to a pack of white supremacists and fascists? Where did this transformation come from? How did we get from D-Day and the Civil Rights movement to bowing down to the sacred right of Nazis to preach hate? Sure, they have the right, but goddamnit, our grandfathers or great-grandfathers (depending on your age) stuck their fucking necks out, went to Europe, Africa and Asia to fight Fascists, so fucking hell, having a counterprotest and maybe even a few punches thrown at these goons is more than they deserve, and better than they got when we marching troops and tanks into their ideological progenitors' cities and bombing the living fuck out of them.
And once again the false equivalency.
Unless the boss is becoming so toxic that being seen anywhere near him could make you part of the collateral damage when he falls.
And it's not like Trump's doing anything wonderful for Intel. Trump's unorthodox views on trade and immigration pose a threat to Silicon Valley, so what good does it do to sit on some sort of advisory council where none of your advice will be taken? Add in Trump's bizarre inability to call out racists, well, I'd say this is a pretty good example of rats fleeing the ship.
It's reaching a point where if this unpopularity is sustained into next year, it's going to really fuck over the midterms for the Republicans. There's a lot of faith been put in General Kelly that he can impose order on the chaos in the White House, and maybe impose some discipline on Trump, but if the incredible, almost unbelievable mishandling of Charlottesville is any indication (seriously, how hard is it to call out white supremacists by name?), then I'd say Kelly has been an utter failure thus far.
There's still time for Trump to pull himself out of this tailspin, but I'm just not convinced he's intellectually or emotionally capable of doing what needs to be done. He seems completely dedicated to destroying his own presidency.
He can't even give a speech to the Boy Scouts without acting like a bloviating halfwit. But fumbling calling out Neo-Nazis? Really? That's got to be the easiest thing a president could do. Wag your finger, say "Shame shame shame!" That's what's expected of you.
I have no ideas whether the rumors are true that Bannon was the one who cautioned against speaking too strongly against the white supremacists, but the rumors that Bannon's time at the White House is coming to an end would certainly mesh well. But it comes too late for this.
I don't know whether Donald Trump is actually a racist or not, but one thing is certain, he lacks any real judgment, and relies on his advisers and proxies, some of which are clearly both malignant and naive.
The other question is just how much value do these CEOs actually get? The President is so u reliable and so prone to fits of pique that can he be relied upon to listen, or to stick with any commitment?
It really is coming to look like everyone; Congress, the courts, business, are all simply routing around the White House.
That's a false equivalency. Being a critic of immigration doesn't make you a nazi, being a nazi makes you a nazi.
Wow you debunked a scientific claim with an anecdotal claim that looks like nothing more than casual observation. I'm sure you're Nobel is in the mail
And some more attempts at moral equivalency
If you don't want to be outed as a Nazi, don't march with Nazis. At least the KKK had enough wits to wear hoods. Not that they often had to worry, since in many places the local government was either sympathetic or out and out members.
Still, if you're a proud White Supremacist, how could you possibly have a problem with your family, your neighbors, your boss and coworkers knowing that you espouse those views? I mean, aren't you on the right side of history believing that America is white and working to get rid of all those brown skinned people who are perverting your precious bodily fluids? Why on earth would you have a problem with people identifying you?
Then let them have to work harder. It was far better when being a Neo-Nazi meant a lot of "wink wink nudge nudge" and secret meetings in basements, and having a subscription to racist literature produced via cheap mimeograph and sent in a plain brown envelope.
The problem now is that the "dispossessed" can find extremist literature far too easily; whether that be young Muslim men finding ISIS propaganda, or young white men being able to find Storm Front, and once they're there, the speed at which they can be radicalized is truly astonishing.
So yes, I think hosting companies at the very least making sure they're not the ones helping radicalize is a good thing.
Do you have some evidence that the shooter was involved with Antifa or BLM? You know, perhaps a video of him marching with them in their uniform?
If your views are so toxic that no one will do business with you, well then that's the marketplace at work. And I still don't buy that the government has even the tiniest bit of obligation to offer you a helping hand.
It's always amusing to watch someone accuse an opponent of doing exactly what they're doing in their own accusation against their own opponent.