had you spent those resources on bettering php on linux, it would be better even further, which is almost all of us small to medium (and many big ones too) are using. instead you are forking your effort to something which has no market value as of now, and wont probably have one even if you put great resources in it in the near future. PHP is the #1 web scripting language on the web, I think it's doing quite well, and we didn't fork anything, we added resources. What would you say about supporting PHP on FreeBSD or Mac or AIX or Solaris which is something we already do. Would that be OK?
There are many commercial companies who want to pay money to run Windows now. Your claim about market value is simply not accurate.
By the way we do better PHP on Linux. It's called Zend Core and it's the most tested, commercially supported up to date PHP distro. And we sell Zend Platform, it's a PHP application server which helps PHP applications scale, run with better performance and run more reliably. If you'd like me to email you the name of our sales guy who deals with the Turkish market I'll be happy to do so.
in a way you are rather neglecting your real niche. which is bad. This is not justified claim. As Zend's goal is to grow PHP to the enterprise and as far as possible, I think it is rather up to Zend Management team to decide what our real niche is. You have just described what PHP's initial niche was. Zenders are important members of the core PHP community, but certainly not the majority.
By the way, your site Webgeekworld offers scripts for Java and ASP and.Net, all of which are outside the Shared Linux hosting marketing. Why don't you stick to your niche?
thats narrow sighted thinking. Hello? We're a commercial company! If we don't sell my wife and 2 little daughters starve. You can call that narrow sighted if you like. I call it economically responsible.
there are almost no boxes having linux and php and not having zend accelerator You are referring to the free-of-charge Zend Optimizer, not the Accelerator which has been part of Zend Platform for almost 3 years. And your information is not accurate, we often get requests from customers to speak to their large hosting companies to get Zend Optimizer installed.
it is some reputation like ibm has in business matters in computing world. that kind of authority and recognition is something that no company that has been just founded a few years ago can buy with any amount of money. that IS zend's power. Yes, marketing and brand power is very nice. As a commercial company however, we need to generate revenues too. I'm sure your company needs to generate revenues.
i can say that lamp box with some kind of accelerator (zend or ioncube) is the default thing in the industry. I can say with more certainty and numbers than you'll ever have that it definitely is *not* the default thing in the industry. And again, you're referring to free Optimizers/Decoders which are not the same as commercial or free Opcode Caches (= Accelerators).
i should note that oses like redhat 3 and above have ready scripts to install zend with just typing installzendopt, which should further tell the importance and reach of zend through this sector. Fantastic! So, RedHat makes money from selling support, HP or Dell makes money from the hardware, someone makes money selling shared hosting. Oh? Where's the Zend dollars there? Like I told you, we don't have a standard commercial product for Shared Hosting.
therefore you should never leave out your niche
This sounds like a very risky business strategy.
and go flirt with some company that has harmed whichever it flirted with, always having a hidden agenda.
Well, it's a bit late for that. Seeing as there are thousands of small, medium and large companies that do want to use PHP on Windows, I think it would be irresponsible not to support them properly. You don't. Fair enough. Best of luck with WebGeekWorld, we look forward to having you as a satisfied paying customer.
I hope you wrote that when we teamed with IBM and Oracle to officially support PHP on those databases and made PHP even a consideration for large companies.
PHP's great advantage (other than time to market) is it's multi-platform. All Zend server products do already work best on Linux, the work with Microsoft is to bring it up to par as much as possible in terms of performance and reliability. What's the big problem with that? Linux hosting is cheaper anyway, so you have an edge.
Seeing as most of the small to medium shared hosting providers don't pay a dime to Zend, nor does Zend have a commercial offering for them at the moment (because you're probably getting your PHP from Plesk, cPanel or Ensim and running it in CGI mode for security reasons), it's not like there's much wrath to fear (or economic fallout). Shared hosting companies owe as much to Zend as the other way around, so lets not pretend anyone is doing anybody any favors.
Shared hosting = many sites on 1 server (there'd better be, otherwise you'll be going out of business next month charging $5 a month for a server). As there are about 30 million PHP sites out there, and most shared hosting companies have many customers per server, and several servers, we're probably talking a few thousand companies, dozens of thousands at most, certainly not the tens of millions of companies you estimate.
From my observations of web developers in the wild this does seem to be scientifically true. Actually, most web developers are so overloaded with projects that even if they did give a shit, they simply don't have time to benchmark, test and optimize properly.
It's not an excuse, it's just that teams are so fluid, project work is chaotic and project management is driven by marketing considerations (read: "get it out", not "enterprise stability") that site performance is seen as a server hardware issue.
Shame really, in these times of green awareness, I hate to think how much wattage is being wasted on processor cycles and disk I/O when a simple caching strategy and site optimization can do so much via software and memory management.
I don't think this is a valid point at all. FOSS is not just Linux. Due to Zend work with IBM, MySQL and SugarCRM and other apps are running on iSeries machines. Windows is just another OS that people want to run stable PHP apps on. Let's not get too melodramatic.
Hi, I work for Zend (not in Marketing dept.) - this issue comes up every time it's written in the press or other interviews. It's not how we market ourselves, and every time we're quoted as "the creators of PHP" Zeev and Andi get hauled over the coals by the PHP development community. It's not the first time and probably not the last time this has happened.
For the record, this is how Zend markets itself:
Zend is the PHP company.
Businesses utilizing PHP know Zend as the place to go for PHP expertise and sound technology solutions. Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski, two of Zend's founders, are key contributors to PHP and creators of the open source Zend Engine. Because of their internationally recognized authority, the company and its founders continue to play leadership roles in the PHP and open source communities, and are accountable for a central role in the explosive growth of PHP.
Slighty different, I think you'll agree.
Happy PHP'ing
Don't know how many people have heard of Janis Ian, but a friend of mine who has a bunch of friends in the Music industry (producers etc...) pointed these out to me when we were building out a music venture (which never got off the ground). They're old, but a good read from the musician side.
Making an "open source strategy" is silly. No one has an "EULA" planning session where they try to make general guidelines for what kind of non free screwing they will and won't take.
Much as you might find it silly, many companies *are* doing it.
If they are not going with "Zero Indemnification" policy of Microsoft, they need to know what sort of open source licenses they will use, what sort of support packages they feel their businesses need. An example: in the UK, Financial Services companies **must** have support contracts on all software which is not built in house, otherwise their auditors make them put money aside to insure against the risk. Should your company use GPL software or only BSD license? What if you make and sell software like System Integrators do and need to supply your own support agreements?
I would love to call it silly and say no one is doing it, but when top Global companies are doing exactly this (I'm dealing with the people who are doing it on a daily basis), you're just ignorant.
And as for saying that open source planning sessions are just to heap FUD on Open Source, you're plain wrong. Often we (open source companies) push for them to make sure customers do have a policy for how and where they use open source, otherwise they'll just take whatever Microsoft or Oracle push to them - nobody likes to change, it's a right pain. But we (open source companies and other interested/stakeholder individuals) need to push for these battles, because we win. I'll ignore your last paragraph which is just utter nonsense.
From what you've just detailed, if I was your friend, knowing you have an LCD screen over your bed and a thing for teledildonics, I'd also run if you started talking about shooting.
Dude, seriously, with your girlfriends is one thing, but on your buddies too?
I wonder how many people find themselves doing more internet-based presentations (on conf. calls) then standing in front of crowds (trad. presentations)?
We're an international company with a number of offices and customers all over the place - I think this would be great for that, replacing Webex as someone mentioned above.
Just wanted to add that according to Wikipedia: CakePHP is an open source web application framework written in PHP, modeled after the concepts of Ruby on Rails.
So the discussion is great: RoR vs RoR copy on PHP vs PHP5 language.
Next week we'll be comparing chalk and cheese, see you then.
Interesting. My mother-in-law is an architect by training and used to work for Israel's Ministry of Housing. During the 60's when there was a need for extensive government build cheap housing a prefab concrete domes solution was suggested by Israel Godovich who was, to put it politely, a very "creative" architect/city engineer. The aim here was low construction cost, not ongoing energy efficiency.
Anyway, during the proof-of-concept phase the issue that came up with the concrete domes was of moisture build up. I don't know if this was because of high temperatures or humidity that we have in Israel, or an issue of coating or something else (size, ventilation, built above ground), but basically, after a couple of months the ceilings went moldy. That was about 40 years ago, so maybe some of these issues have been solved.
You could try use air conditioning or de-humidifiers, but that raises the energy requirements and certainly the ongoing running costs of the dwelling.
I have no idea who you are or who you spoke to at Zend who said IIS7 will be the most robust way to run PHP, perhaps you misinterpreted that it would be the most robust way to run PHP on *Windows* (which is indeed true because of the new FastCGI handler).
Zend collaboration with Microsoft aims to bring performance and reliability parity with Linux and aid application developers who want to deploy (and develop) PHP on Windows.
The names have changed but the people are the same.
The big 5 Accounting companies which had to spin off their consulting divisions after some court ruling (can't remember if it was a conflict of interest case or something related to Enron/ Sarbanes Oxley). Arthur Andersen died after Enron (check Wikipedia for more) and now they are only the big 4.
Deloitte & Touche --> Deloitte Ernst & Young --> Cap Gemini Ernst & Young (CGEY) KPMG Consulting --> BearingPoint/ Deloitte (depending where) Arthur Andersen --> Andersen Consulting --> Accenture PriceWaterhouseCoopers --> PWC Consulting --> bought by IBM Global Services
During the late nineties and early naughties, these companies were considered the shit. Having worked with some of them (not at) for projects I can say that they are amazing project entities with capabilities to build, mismanage and sometimes deliver the most enormous projects. In all cases they overbill and seem to be staffed by overworked miserable people trying to find their way around the massive org. chart. Go work for a nice company if you can or at least an investment bank where you can at least make loads of money.
I'm not well endowed, I just pay more attention to details.
And that's why you truly are: Just in, Good man!
(keep your email private, like your bedroom athletics)
Funny, a good friend of mine almost worked there....
Anyway, I thought this device would only be any good if:
1) it had a wifi chip in the device and
2) connected via ethernet port as a mini and compact external network element that
3) would do encryption for SMB non-VPN customers
4) in unencrypted hotspots.
5) to prevent snort wifi sniffer attacks
But it doesn't. Still, from what I understood they're trialling at some large enterprise IT departments who think it's super, so maybe I missed something.
Nice to see that their All-in-one security includes "Parental Content Control" - I'm sure that's a killer feature for all those pre-pubescent road warriors.
Well this is a fair point. Does the fact the police can track you down faster put you off committing the crime, or do you wear a hooded top or murder innocent people in a remote field?
That said, it's not about real control. That's done by the education system, the legal system and good old fashioned advertising.
So I don't think that having video feeds is real control. Would you buy a remote controlled car which just showed you pictures of what the car had done? No I thought not.
I feel sorry for the poor bastards who have to watch hours of mindless boring security camera footage everyday.
Companies are not part of a government. They are their own entities in a parallel system. They might be their own entities, but what do you call government-owned companies? They might not be part of the legislative or executive branch, but their revenues go straight to the Finance coffers. As such activities of government will work to protect these interests.
The world is not a bunch of governments ruling over these little corporations who spread their tentrils forth for the motherland
It used to be, and in many cases it still is: the UK government pushes deals for BAE with Saudi Arabia, the US government works to advance Halliburton. But you have a point that now it's also corporations making governments dance to their tunes.
Governments have historically backed up their companies or companies based in their countries legally (in the case of the US with WTO) and militarily (colonialism - well, in fact pretty much all foreign policy prior to WW2). And they do so because they want their tax dollars to boost local currency and stock markets. And in cases that governments buy currency to boost the value of their own it's clear that governments are in fact companies where the entire country are separate departments contributing to (for example) "United States Inc.".
But I digress. The point here is that the amusement park is an asset of the Chinese government whether it answers directly to the "Chinese electorate" (LOL) or the prime minister is a different (and not so important) detail.
PS - Ikea is the furnishing store from Sweden. Nokia is from Finland. I know, there's hundreds millions of those Scandinavians and they all look the same....:-P
there aren't shady stands selling pirated CDs in street corners.
Yes there are. There's one right by Tel Aviv Central Train Station.... they're not everywhere, but they do exist.
Nice reply with little to disagree with.
You live in Israel? Yet don't think Islamists are pushing for a world-wide Caliphate? Your point was that average Joe Muslim is pushing for a world-wide Caliphate. I don't think anybody doubts what Islamists are pushing for, but your working assumption is that all Muslims agree with Islamists and I don't think it's true.
Tell us, how many Arab countries actually recognize the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign nation? This used to bother me, but apart from the Palestinians (for obvious reasons) it's just not their biggest priority.
Tell us, does Hamas recognize the right of Israel to exist? No, but we don't recognize them either do we? Goes both ways.
Tell us, do the maps, globes, and textbooks that are used to teach Arab children even show any Israel at all? Snore... have you finished yet?
No, it's not all Muslims. But it's enough to make Israel a big target to the Islamic world. er, yeah, of course it does. by pointing fingers at us the various governments/monarchies/regimes can deflect internal criticism. This is a nice discussion alright, but your original flamebait was about the United Caliphate of America or thereabouts. Now you've just turned it into a rant.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, but not much chance of that till they remove those big Microsoft banner ads from their site...
There are many commercial companies who want to pay money to run Windows now. Your claim about market value is simply not accurate.
By the way we do better PHP on Linux. It's called Zend Core and it's the most tested, commercially supported up to date PHP distro. And we sell Zend Platform, it's a PHP application server which helps PHP applications scale, run with better performance and run more reliably. If you'd like me to email you the name of our sales guy who deals with the Turkish market I'll be happy to do so.
in a way you are rather neglecting your real niche. which is bad. This is not justified claim. As Zend's goal is to grow PHP to the enterprise and as far as possible, I think it is rather up to Zend Management team to decide what our real niche is. You have just described what PHP's initial niche was. Zenders are important members of the core PHP community, but certainly not the majority.By the way, your site Webgeekworld offers scripts for Java and ASP and
therefore you should never leave out your niche
This sounds like a very risky business strategy.
and go flirt with some company that has harmed whichever it flirted with, always having a hidden agenda.Well, it's a bit late for that. Seeing as there are thousands of small, medium and large companies that do want to use PHP on Windows, I think it would be irresponsible not to support them properly. You don't. Fair enough. Best of luck with WebGeekWorld, we look forward to having you as a satisfied paying customer.
I hope you wrote that when we teamed with IBM and Oracle to officially support PHP on those databases and made PHP even a consideration for large companies.
PHP's great advantage (other than time to market) is it's multi-platform. All Zend server products do already work best on Linux, the work with Microsoft is to bring it up to par as much as possible in terms of performance and reliability. What's the big problem with that? Linux hosting is cheaper anyway, so you have an edge.
Seeing as most of the small to medium shared hosting providers don't pay a dime to Zend, nor does Zend have a commercial offering for them at the moment (because you're probably getting your PHP from Plesk, cPanel or Ensim and running it in CGI mode for security reasons), it's not like there's much wrath to fear (or economic fallout). Shared hosting companies owe as much to Zend as the other way around, so lets not pretend anyone is doing anybody any favors.
Shared hosting = many sites on 1 server (there'd better be, otherwise you'll be going out of business next month charging $5 a month for a server). As there are about 30 million PHP sites out there, and most shared hosting companies have many customers per server, and several servers, we're probably talking a few thousand companies, dozens of thousands at most, certainly not the tens of millions of companies you estimate.
From my observations of web developers in the wild this does seem to be scientifically true. Actually, most web developers are so overloaded with projects that even if they did give a shit, they simply don't have time to benchmark, test and optimize properly.
It's not an excuse, it's just that teams are so fluid, project work is chaotic and project management is driven by marketing considerations (read: "get it out", not "enterprise stability") that site performance is seen as a server hardware issue.
Shame really, in these times of green awareness, I hate to think how much wattage is being wasted on processor cycles and disk I/O when a simple caching strategy and site optimization can do so much via software and memory management.
I don't think this is a valid point at all. FOSS is not just Linux. Due to Zend work with IBM, MySQL and SugarCRM and other apps are running on iSeries machines. Windows is just another OS that people want to run stable PHP apps on. Let's not get too melodramatic.
Businesses utilizing PHP know Zend as the place to go for PHP expertise and sound technology solutions. Andi Gutmans and Zeev Suraski, two of Zend's founders, are key contributors to PHP and creators of the open source Zend Engine. Because of their internationally recognized authority, the company and its founders continue to play leadership roles in the PHP and open source communities, and are accountable for a central role in the explosive growth of PHP.
Slighty different, I think you'll agree.
Happy PHP'ing
http://www.janisian.com/articles-perfsong/internetdebacle.pdf
http://www.janisian.com/articles-perfsong/Fallout%20-%20rev%2011-23-05.pdf
Much as you might find it silly, many companies *are* doing it.
If they are not going with "Zero Indemnification" policy of Microsoft, they need to know what sort of open source licenses they will use, what sort of support packages they feel their businesses need. An example: in the UK, Financial Services companies **must** have support contracts on all software which is not built in house, otherwise their auditors make them put money aside to insure against the risk. Should your company use GPL software or only BSD license? What if you make and sell software like System Integrators do and need to supply your own support agreements?
I would love to call it silly and say no one is doing it, but when top Global companies are doing exactly this (I'm dealing with the people who are doing it on a daily basis), you're just ignorant.
And as for saying that open source planning sessions are just to heap FUD on Open Source, you're plain wrong. Often we (open source companies) push for them to make sure customers do have a policy for how and where they use open source, otherwise they'll just take whatever Microsoft or Oracle push to them - nobody likes to change, it's a right pain. But we (open source companies and other interested/stakeholder individuals) need to push for these battles, because we win. I'll ignore your last paragraph which is just utter nonsense.
From what you've just detailed, if I was your friend, knowing you have an LCD screen over your bed and a thing for teledildonics, I'd also run if you started talking about shooting.
Dude, seriously, with your girlfriends is one thing, but on your buddies too?
I wonder how many people find themselves doing more internet-based presentations (on conf. calls) then standing in front of crowds (trad. presentations)?
We're an international company with a number of offices and customers all over the place - I think this would be great for that, replacing Webex as someone mentioned above.
Just wanted to add that according to Wikipedia:
CakePHP is an open source web application framework written in PHP, modeled after the concepts of Ruby on Rails.
So the discussion is great:
RoR vs RoR copy on PHP vs PHP5 language.
Next week we'll be comparing chalk and cheese, see you then.
Interesting. My mother-in-law is an architect by training and used to work for Israel's Ministry of Housing. During the 60's when there was a need for extensive government build cheap housing a prefab concrete domes solution was suggested by Israel Godovich who was, to put it politely, a very "creative" architect/city engineer. The aim here was low construction cost, not ongoing energy efficiency.
Anyway, during the proof-of-concept phase the issue that came up with the concrete domes was of moisture build up. I don't know if this was because of high temperatures or humidity that we have in Israel, or an issue of coating or something else (size, ventilation, built above ground), but basically, after a couple of months the ceilings went moldy. That was about 40 years ago, so maybe some of these issues have been solved.
You could try use air conditioning or de-humidifiers, but that raises the energy requirements and certainly the ongoing running costs of the dwelling.
I have no idea who you are or who you spoke to at Zend who said IIS7 will be the most robust way to run PHP, perhaps you misinterpreted that it would be the most robust way to run PHP on *Windows* (which is indeed true because of the new FastCGI handler).
Zend collaboration with Microsoft aims to bring performance and reliability parity with Linux and aid application developers who want to deploy (and develop) PHP on Windows.
Trust me (I'm not a doctor, nor Zeev or Andi)
IANA parallel programmer. Please enlighten me what a parallel programmer does with just one chip?
The names have changed but the people are the same.
The big 5 Accounting companies which had to spin off their consulting divisions after some court ruling (can't remember if it was a conflict of interest case or something related to Enron/ Sarbanes Oxley). Arthur Andersen died after Enron (check Wikipedia for more) and now they are only the big 4.
Deloitte & Touche --> Deloitte
Ernst & Young --> Cap Gemini Ernst & Young (CGEY)
KPMG Consulting --> BearingPoint/ Deloitte (depending where)
Arthur Andersen --> Andersen Consulting --> Accenture
PriceWaterhouseCoopers --> PWC Consulting --> bought by IBM Global Services
During the late nineties and early naughties, these companies were considered the shit.
Having worked with some of them (not at) for projects I can say that they are amazing project entities with capabilities to build, mismanage and sometimes deliver the most enormous projects. In all cases they overbill and seem to be staffed by overworked miserable people trying to find their way around the massive org. chart.
Go work for a nice company if you can or at least an investment bank where you can at least make loads of money.
And that's why you truly are: Just in, Good man! (keep your email private, like your bedroom athletics)
Cheney doesn't have a "conflict of interest", he has an "interest for conflict"
Funny, a good friend of mine almost worked there.... Anyway, I thought this device would only be any good if: 1) it had a wifi chip in the device and 2) connected via ethernet port as a mini and compact external network element that 3) would do encryption for SMB non-VPN customers 4) in unencrypted hotspots. 5) to prevent snort wifi sniffer attacks But it doesn't. Still, from what I understood they're trialling at some large enterprise IT departments who think it's super, so maybe I missed something. Nice to see that their All-in-one security includes "Parental Content Control" - I'm sure that's a killer feature for all those pre-pubescent road warriors.
Well this is a fair point. Does the fact the police can track you down faster put you off committing the crime, or do you wear a hooded top or murder innocent people in a remote field?
That said, it's not about real control. That's done by the education system, the legal system and good old fashioned advertising.
So I don't think that having video feeds is real control. Would you buy a remote controlled car which just showed you pictures of what the car had done? No I thought not.
I feel sorry for the poor bastards who have to watch hours of mindless boring security camera footage everyday.
.... so we have no disagreement that it will be inflicted
Good luck with your start-up!
The world is not a bunch of governments ruling over these little corporations who spread their tentrils forth for the motherland
It used to be, and in many cases it still is: the UK government pushes deals for BAE with Saudi Arabia, the US government works to advance Halliburton. But you have a point that now it's also corporations making governments dance to their tunes. Governments have historically backed up their companies or companies based in their countries legally (in the case of the US with WTO) and militarily (colonialism - well, in fact pretty much all foreign policy prior to WW2). And they do so because they want their tax dollars to boost local currency and stock markets. And in cases that governments buy currency to boost the value of their own it's clear that governments are in fact companies where the entire country are separate departments contributing to (for example) "United States Inc.".
But I digress. The point here is that the amusement park is an asset of the Chinese government whether it answers directly to the "Chinese electorate" (LOL) or the prime minister is a different (and not so important) detail.
:-P
PS - Ikea is the furnishing store from Sweden. Nokia is from Finland. I know, there's hundreds millions of those Scandinavians and they all look the same....
Yes there are. There's one right by Tel Aviv Central Train Station.... they're not everywhere, but they do exist.
This is largely from lobbying by US pharmaceutical companies due to competition from Israeli generic drug manufacturers.