Because anecdotally I hear lots of Linux users that are chomping at the bit for Steam to to come and looking forward to paying for games
"Anecdotally?"
What makes what you hear any better evidence than his?
If we just took it on face value as anecdote vs. anecdote then the validity might be equal. Fortunately, we can examine the statements themselves critically. When someone tries to bisect 20,000,000 (at least) people into 2 different groups both groups being characterized as having extreme viewpoints (cheapskates vs. zealots) with no room for a moderate third group, that flies in the face of common sense and is almost certainly false. I didn't explore that fact in my response as I didn't think it was necessary. What I did say was that there are a lot of Linux users chomping at the bit for Steam and will buy games. This is a reasonable assertion as we know there are millions and millions of Linux users and a certain percentage of any portion of the population enjoys games. So it is reasonable to assume that there are Linux users that will buy games as a certain percentage of people that run Linux will download Steam and will actually follow through and buy. Valve is certainly aware of how many people use Steam on Linux via Wine and it is possible they have already crunched the numbers and see profit in if nothing else giving those users a better experience. In a baseline psychological profile a better experience generally translates into better sales so that is a reasonable expectation.
80% to 90% off retail list for the bundle.
More than that if you factor in how little someone could pay should they choose to. What you are missing is that even the HIB suffers from a few faults. Lack of AAA titles, not a part of a distribution platform like Steam therefore necessitating more friction for the user between clicking "buy" and actually playing. You also fail to take into account that Valve isn't just bringing Steam over, they are also working with hardware vendors and presumably software houses like Canonical to ensure that Steam is a stellar experience on Linux. All of that is a level of service that the HIB cannot bring to the table and is a level that no Linux game vendor has brought to the table ever. So the HIB is just a minimal guideline not the entire picture. The point of bringing it up was to counter the troll that Linux users won't buy games. HIB wasn't intended to be a model for how the Steam efforts are expected to play out and it is disingenuous for you to pretend I meant it that way.
The return on the HB is about $8 from the Windows gamer. 3/4 of the total.
This in no way conflicts with my point that Linux users will pay for games. Furthermore, I am puzzled why you bother to bring it up as I didn't even mention that Linux users paid more for the HIB though thank you for doing that as it is at least prima facie an important point. There has been a lot of electronic ink spilled and hand wringing over the simple data point that Linux gamers voluntarily pay more than Windows people for the HIB and I am inclined to believe that it is at least in part because they are just happy to be able to pay anything at all for decent games and get caught up in the moment. That's neither here nor there as far as my main point which is that Linux users indeed will pay for games and anyone who disputes that is ignoring reality.
The problem with big ticket donations is that they projects Linux sales through a rose tinted lens. Things look better than they rare.
Yes, it is a fallacy to extrapolate overall interest in games and chances of success on Linux based on something like the HIB as that is barely above arguing by analogy and devolves into trench warfare between Linux and Windows people. I notice you are really gnawing on that bone yourself though as it seems to give you a safe place to argue from. Your problem is there aren't a
I'm right there with you and as far as being a "cheapskate" is concerned I'm a Linux user and would gladly pay double the price for Linux over Windows as really, price isn't the issue. The functionality I get is. If I want to run a Windows program, I have a vm for that and the only thing that doesn't work on is games. When Steam comes to Linux, that won't be a problem anymore as I'll just play what is in there. If a publisher's game isn't in Steam or available for Linux then, oh well, I guess I won't be buying your game.
I was thinking this was the elephant in the room myself. As far as I know, native binaries are allowed into the "Metro" app store so what's stopping any of the game sellers from just packaging up their games and submitting them in their entirety to the Windows app store. This has major implications for Steam on x86. And if devs start cross compiling for ARM and x86 that's even worse as Steam will never show up in its current guise on a WinRT device. Gabe is doing what it takes to see his oxygen doesn't get cut off and I would imagine he is pretty committed to the idea.
Yea, cause microsoft has mad such incredible inroads in this area in the past, and Windows 8 is sizing up to be the greatest OS ever that everyone will buy.... oh wait...
Vista is considered to be the biggest Windows disaster in the modern era as it never broke 18 percent market share. However, name one feature pioneered in that OS that is not in Windows 7. So despite the fact that Vista was a failure, the things it brought to Windows users are still here. Even if Windows 8 fails, MS will just polish it up and get a do-over with Windows 9. If they want to push an app store in Windows there will be an app store in Windows. Believe that. I despise MS as much as anybody else but I realize the power they have on the desktop and the power the desktop has to make money. Everything MS does is for the Windows platform. Period. And if they see an opportunity to leverage Windows over the third party ecosystem via an app store they will most certainly do it. If you look throughout the history of MS, the only threats they even bother to recognize are different operating systems. Linux on netbooks woke them up so hard they extended the life of XP nearly giving it away. Netscape and javascript scared the daylights out of them because it was a threat to Windows development. Same with Java. Now Apple has them by the balls with the iPad so they are trying to sew up the Windows market as tightly as they can. I'm digressing here but the point is that Windows is what make MS tick and locking consumers in via the app store is number one priority. Gabe knows this.
It was my understanding that the Windows Store will only allowed Metro apps. While you can advertise desktop apps in the store, the most you can do is have your advertisement link to your own website where you actually sell your desktop application.
Assuming Microsoft hasn't changed this, there is no benefit for most PC style games to still not use Steam since you still need someone to distribute your digital copy and Windows Store will only distribute Metro apps.
True but at least conceptually that is one small step away from what Steam does so I can see how the content platform purveyors like Valve might be getting nervous. What you might be missing is that, yes, for the game makers Steam is still the obvious choice but if consumer demand is high enough then all the games will also be distributable through the Windows app store one way or the other which is in direct competition with Steam. As the Windows App store will be installed on every Windows 8 device and will be marketed heavily it is a virtual certainty that some consumers that either would have gone to steam or are already steam users will migrate their purchasing to the app store and it will probably have a snowball effect where more users means more games etc. MS already has content delivery chops via Xbox Live and it is through Xbox Live that they make money on their console. I seriously doubt the opportunity for recreating this situation on Windows is lost on Microsoft or Valve. This will not happen in one month or probably during the Windows 8 timespan but all the pieces are being put into place and if MS decided to drop the hammer on Windows 9 or 10 and require all traditional desktop apps to go through the app store with no easy way of sideloading like on Android then Valve at least in its present guise is done. Apparently Gabe isn't taking that prospect lying down and I don't blame him.
What happened to all the speculation that Valve/Steam was going to launch their own console,
Valve Software has confirmed on their corporate blog that they are bringing Steam to Linux. They have not alluded to any consoles that may or may not be in development. Do they have a customized Linux distro running on some optimized x86 hardware that you could possibly call a console? Almost certainly. Who knows if that in any form will ever see the light of day but I certainly hope so.
Not even close. Please regale us on how Loki's efforts in the 90's of porting AAA title months after everyone has played them on Windows and just throwing it out there for the typical Linux user to do their best installing them on their distro of choice in any way compares to the encompasing effort Valve is doing with Steam including working with proprietary vendors to get better drivers and actually tweaking the Source engine to run better on Linux rather than just porting other stuff after the fact. Please do as I would love to drive a truck through all the holes in your argment.
Peruse steam and look at the games for Mac and that will give you at least an idea of what can be expected for Linux.
Was that supposed to be an argument that Carmack is right or wrong?
Er, no, it was an argument that the AC when he said that only L4D2 and Portal would be ported. I didn't mean to imply anything about the quality of the games. Also note that Diablo 3 and Civilization 5 are available for the Mac so there are popular new games to be had there.
If this is going to work, then when Steam on Linux launches, there needs to be a wave of gamers who have been itching to move away from Windows waiting to jump on all the new and improved Linux gaming goodness.
I'll see your supposition and raise my own. Valve knows exactly how many people game with Steam in wine on Linux. I'd bet they are wagering that if they can convert just those people they will make money or at least get close enough to justify the effort. That seems reasonable as a native game is probably going to work better than one ran in Wine so Linux gamers with access to that will buy the Linux version and be more likely to buy games through Steam in the future if it works well which given the amount of effort they are putting into this is likely. The key might be to integrate a dedicated and seamless Wine runtime so that the DirectX titles will work and work with the publishers to see that there aren't any problems. This is probably a long shot though as I haven't heard even a whisper about it.
My take on this is that Gabe Newell is a very rich, ambitious, and intelligent man. He sees the walls going up around Valve Software at the hands of Microsoft with the Windows 8 integrated store. Newell wants to keep making tons of money so he's going to make his best effort to loosen the grip MS has on his bottom line. Maybe Linux is also a labor of love for him like it is for Mark Shuttleworth. If I was a billionaire, I would be more than happen to lose millions supporting a free operating system so I can see where they might be coming from. From a purely economic perspective, I think they will make money just on the number of Wine users alone. If they achieve their larger goal of making Linux a legitimate general gaming platform that other major publishers develop for then more power to them.
His or anyone else's, like Loki, and you could even buy their ports in electronics botique back in the day.
Then you had to take it home and get it working which was not an easy task. With Windows, you just hit Next Next Next and you were in. Loki games were not at all like that. Also Linux users in absolute numbers were much smaller back then. Just on the basis of sheer quantity of users alone Linux may be a viable gaming platform today. And Valve knows how many people are gaming in Wine. It is a possibility that if they can just convert those users they could make a profit. I'm sure they have run those numbers. Another thing to keep in mind is that Loki games almost always ran worse on Linux than Windows and when you are playing competitive twitch multi-player this matters and will turn even die-hard Linux users off. Valve is addressing this concern by working hand in hand with hardware vendors. Another issue that Valve is addressing is how easy it is to get Linux games. Yes, back in the day you could go to EB and get what you needed. The problem was some people have never even heard of Electronic Boutique and thus were left out. There were other stores too but I don't recall walking into a random computer store or a big box retailer and seeing Quake for Linux on the shelf. Steam fixes this as it opens up the distribution channel to equally as wide as what you have on Windows.
The bottom line is Valve is making a serious effort and are covering bases from top to bottom. Maybe they can pull it off and maybe they can't but if it fails it won't be for the same reasons Loki or id failed.
I vote the egg was first as there were egg laying species long before the chicken came along but I digress. On topic, Valve knows who's running Steam on Wine so they know at a minimum how big their market can be. Obviously they think it's big enough especially taking the perceived existential risk MS is putting them in with Windows 8.
Yes, there have been many failed attempts at putting Linux at the forefront in the consumer space but just because everybody tried and failed before doesn't mean it isn't possible. Stop rolling your eyes. Android will be an indisputable first class Linux when all their patches hit mainline (if that hasn't happened already). Maybe not GNU/Linux but Linux is pulling the levers and turning the dials underneath just like it is everywhere else it lives. And if you doubt that, check this out.
I love when nerds praise JC but then he speaks the truth about linux and they start dissing him and calling him irrelevant. carmack: OPENGL FASTER THAN DIRECTX!!! TELL EVERYONE!! carmack: LINUX IS STILL NOT VIABLE GAMING PLATFORM!!! DOWN WITH CARMACK HES IRRELEVANT AND DOESNT KNOW WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT!!!!
Hold up there, homeslice. There are a lot of people that post on Slashdot and some of them like Carmack and some of them are Linux users. There is nothing inherently mutually inclusive between these two groups. I think Carmack is cool and I use Linux but nobody is perfect. Note all the people that piss all over Rage and Doom 3 so it is pure strawman to say that every nerd praises him at every turn. He says that Linux isn't a viable gaming platform and his main argument is that he failed to crack it. That's not a good argument as to why Valve can't make it happen. Matter of fact Valve is taking a completely different approach so it is unlikely that any conclusions can be drawn from id's experience in the space. Maybe you and Carmack should wait and see. Newell and co. might just show us all how it's done.
No, bad idea. Most Linux users will just turn their nose up and not use it. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way but in a very practical sense. Linux is a general purpose OS and I'm going to want to run more than just games so any version I use on my desktop will need a fully stocked package manager and at least a fairly typical LSB standard directory tree etc. Maybe do a thing with Ubuntu where Ubuntu is the blessed distro and has all the goodies packed in with a one click install or whatever. I'd like to see some good hardware that comes with Ubuntu and Steam out of the box maybe sold by Canonical or a distributor like System76. Something like that maybe but I don't think them doing their own distro is going to be the answer as that gets them into a non-core space where they could easily screw up.
I won't mean anything if the only games they bring over is L4D2 and Portal.
That's pure strawman and you know it. There is no way that only those two games will be on Linux. Peruse steam and look at the games for Mac and that will give you at least an idea of what can be expected for Linux. Also bear in mind the relative ease of porting between OS X and Linux (kind of like porting between iOS and Android) and you instantly add a significant amount of people to your potential non-Windows user base which should have a nice additive effect and make even more games show up in the Mac/Linux column.
Steam on Linux is 100% panic from Valve realizing that Steam is about to become irrelevant.
I'm sure it started out that way but who fucking cares? It's happening so they might as well give it all they have and make it work. As a Linux user I benefit and will definitely buy games.
However at the end of the day it will be a huge money looser due to the small desktop install base.
There is absolutely no way that just one data point like that means they will lose money. There is so much more that goes into the economics of a decision like this. Maybe Valve isn't worried about making money right off the bat? Maybe it is a political move? Is MS making money off the XBox in the aggregate yet? Newell is pissed about Windows 8 and that seems to be the primary motivator of this move and not making money in the short term. I'd take a more wait and see approach rather than knee jerk cynicism.
First of all, the Linux userbase is really small to begin with. Within that small userbase, you have two relatively large groups:
1. The ideologues, who really believe in RMS's idea that proprietary software is unethical.
2. The cheapskates, who aren't going to pay for software.
Do you have any actual evidence that the Linux userbase is composed primarily of these two groups? Because anecdotally I hear lots of Linux users that are chomping at the bit for Steam to come and looking forward to paying for games. Furthermore, the Humble Indie Bundle has shown that there are gamers on Linux that will pay. Will that translate to profit for Valve et al? Who knows. But it does show that you, dear AC, have no idea what you are talking about.
As far as I can tell Carmack's efforts boiled down to trying to sell individual games mostly and to just accept things on Linux as they are for better or worse. What Valve is doing is trying to integrate their entire platform and being a game delivery network that works across Windows Mac and Linux, that's exactly what it is...a platform. Just like the browser is a platform. Valve is also apparently working hand in hand with the big players in the Linux graphics card space to make drivers first class. They are profiling to find bottlenecks in how their code integrates with the kernel. Valve is making a very serious effort here and it extends beyond anything Carmack has tried so far. If anything maybe Carmack could learn something instead of just lambasting because he couldn't see it through. Of course these are early days still and Steam for Linux hasn't even been released yet which even more makes me wonder why Carmack is already predicting Doom (get it?) for it.
His company's foray into Linux gaming hasn't panned out. That doesn't mean that a different strategy might not work. That's like saying that because MS tried to find consumer success with tablets for over a decade that there is no chance anyone else could do it...er...
Slashdot Mirror
Because anecdotally I hear lots of Linux users that are chomping at the bit for Steam to to come and looking forward to paying for games
"Anecdotally?"
What makes what you hear any better evidence than his?
If we just took it on face value as anecdote vs. anecdote then the validity might be equal. Fortunately, we can examine the statements themselves critically. When someone tries to bisect 20,000,000 (at least) people into 2 different groups both groups being characterized as having extreme viewpoints (cheapskates vs. zealots) with no room for a moderate third group, that flies in the face of common sense and is almost certainly false. I didn't explore that fact in my response as I didn't think it was necessary. What I did say was that there are a lot of Linux users chomping at the bit for Steam and will buy games. This is a reasonable assertion as we know there are millions and millions of Linux users and a certain percentage of any portion of the population enjoys games. So it is reasonable to assume that there are Linux users that will buy games as a certain percentage of people that run Linux will download Steam and will actually follow through and buy. Valve is certainly aware of how many people use Steam on Linux via Wine and it is possible they have already crunched the numbers and see profit in if nothing else giving those users a better experience. In a baseline psychological profile a better experience generally translates into better sales so that is a reasonable expectation.
80% to 90% off retail list for the bundle.
More than that if you factor in how little someone could pay should they choose to. What you are missing is that even the HIB suffers from a few faults. Lack of AAA titles, not a part of a distribution platform like Steam therefore necessitating more friction for the user between clicking "buy" and actually playing. You also fail to take into account that Valve isn't just bringing Steam over, they are also working with hardware vendors and presumably software houses like Canonical to ensure that Steam is a stellar experience on Linux. All of that is a level of service that the HIB cannot bring to the table and is a level that no Linux game vendor has brought to the table ever. So the HIB is just a minimal guideline not the entire picture. The point of bringing it up was to counter the troll that Linux users won't buy games. HIB wasn't intended to be a model for how the Steam efforts are expected to play out and it is disingenuous for you to pretend I meant it that way.
The return on the HB is about $8 from the Windows gamer. 3/4 of the total.
This in no way conflicts with my point that Linux users will pay for games. Furthermore, I am puzzled why you bother to bring it up as I didn't even mention that Linux users paid more for the HIB though thank you for doing that as it is at least prima facie an important point. There has been a lot of electronic ink spilled and hand wringing over the simple data point that Linux gamers voluntarily pay more than Windows people for the HIB and I am inclined to believe that it is at least in part because they are just happy to be able to pay anything at all for decent games and get caught up in the moment. That's neither here nor there as far as my main point which is that Linux users indeed will pay for games and anyone who disputes that is ignoring reality.
The problem with big ticket donations is that they projects Linux sales through a rose tinted lens. Things look better than they rare.
Yes, it is a fallacy to extrapolate overall interest in games and chances of success on Linux based on something like the HIB as that is barely above arguing by analogy and devolves into trench warfare between Linux and Windows people. I notice you are really gnawing on that bone yourself though as it seems to give you a safe place to argue from. Your problem is there aren't a
I'm right there with you and as far as being a "cheapskate" is concerned I'm a Linux user and would gladly pay double the price for Linux over Windows as really, price isn't the issue. The functionality I get is. If I want to run a Windows program, I have a vm for that and the only thing that doesn't work on is games. When Steam comes to Linux, that won't be a problem anymore as I'll just play what is in there. If a publisher's game isn't in Steam or available for Linux then, oh well, I guess I won't be buying your game.
I was thinking this was the elephant in the room myself. As far as I know, native binaries are allowed into the "Metro" app store so what's stopping any of the game sellers from just packaging up their games and submitting them in their entirety to the Windows app store. This has major implications for Steam on x86. And if devs start cross compiling for ARM and x86 that's even worse as Steam will never show up in its current guise on a WinRT device. Gabe is doing what it takes to see his oxygen doesn't get cut off and I would imagine he is pretty committed to the idea.
Yea, cause microsoft has mad such incredible inroads in this area in the past, and Windows 8 is sizing up to be the greatest OS ever that everyone will buy.... oh wait...
Vista is considered to be the biggest Windows disaster in the modern era as it never broke 18 percent market share. However, name one feature pioneered in that OS that is not in Windows 7. So despite the fact that Vista was a failure, the things it brought to Windows users are still here. Even if Windows 8 fails, MS will just polish it up and get a do-over with Windows 9. If they want to push an app store in Windows there will be an app store in Windows. Believe that. I despise MS as much as anybody else but I realize the power they have on the desktop and the power the desktop has to make money. Everything MS does is for the Windows platform. Period. And if they see an opportunity to leverage Windows over the third party ecosystem via an app store they will most certainly do it. If you look throughout the history of MS, the only threats they even bother to recognize are different operating systems. Linux on netbooks woke them up so hard they extended the life of XP nearly giving it away. Netscape and javascript scared the daylights out of them because it was a threat to Windows development. Same with Java. Now Apple has them by the balls with the iPad so they are trying to sew up the Windows market as tightly as they can. I'm digressing here but the point is that Windows is what make MS tick and locking consumers in via the app store is number one priority. Gabe knows this.
Why is there no Gametree Linux? These companies were around before Steam for Mac.
The Gametree question, that's the elephant in the corner here.
You aren't looking hard enough.
It was my understanding that the Windows Store will only allowed Metro apps. While you can advertise desktop apps in the store, the most you can do is have your advertisement link to your own website where you actually sell your desktop application.
Assuming Microsoft hasn't changed this, there is no benefit for most PC style games to still not use Steam since you still need someone to distribute your digital copy and Windows Store will only distribute Metro apps.
True but at least conceptually that is one small step away from what Steam does so I can see how the content platform purveyors like Valve might be getting nervous. What you might be missing is that, yes, for the game makers Steam is still the obvious choice but if consumer demand is high enough then all the games will also be distributable through the Windows app store one way or the other which is in direct competition with Steam. As the Windows App store will be installed on every Windows 8 device and will be marketed heavily it is a virtual certainty that some consumers that either would have gone to steam or are already steam users will migrate their purchasing to the app store and it will probably have a snowball effect where more users means more games etc. MS already has content delivery chops via Xbox Live and it is through Xbox Live that they make money on their console. I seriously doubt the opportunity for recreating this situation on Windows is lost on Microsoft or Valve. This will not happen in one month or probably during the Windows 8 timespan but all the pieces are being put into place and if MS decided to drop the hammer on Windows 9 or 10 and require all traditional desktop apps to go through the app store with no easy way of sideloading like on Android then Valve at least in its present guise is done. Apparently Gabe isn't taking that prospect lying down and I don't blame him.
What happened to all the speculation that Valve/Steam was going to launch their own console,
Valve Software has confirmed on their corporate blog that they are bringing Steam to Linux. They have not alluded to any consoles that may or may not be in development. Do they have a customized Linux distro running on some optimized x86 hardware that you could possibly call a console? Almost certainly. Who knows if that in any form will ever see the light of day but I certainly hope so.
'nuff said
Not even close. Please regale us on how Loki's efforts in the 90's of porting AAA title months after everyone has played them on Windows and just throwing it out there for the typical Linux user to do their best installing them on their distro of choice in any way compares to the encompasing effort Valve is doing with Steam including working with proprietary vendors to get better drivers and actually tweaking the Source engine to run better on Linux rather than just porting other stuff after the fact. Please do as I would love to drive a truck through all the holes in your argment.
Peruse steam and look at the games for Mac and that will give you at least an idea of what can be expected for Linux.
Was that supposed to be an argument that Carmack is right or wrong?
Er, no, it was an argument that the AC when he said that only L4D2 and Portal would be ported. I didn't mean to imply anything about the quality of the games. Also note that Diablo 3 and Civilization 5 are available for the Mac so there are popular new games to be had there.
If this is going to work, then when Steam on Linux launches, there needs to be a wave of gamers who have been itching to move away from Windows waiting to jump on all the new and improved Linux gaming goodness.
I'll see your supposition and raise my own. Valve knows exactly how many people game with Steam in wine on Linux. I'd bet they are wagering that if they can convert just those people they will make money or at least get close enough to justify the effort. That seems reasonable as a native game is probably going to work better than one ran in Wine so Linux gamers with access to that will buy the Linux version and be more likely to buy games through Steam in the future if it works well which given the amount of effort they are putting into this is likely. The key might be to integrate a dedicated and seamless Wine runtime so that the DirectX titles will work and work with the publishers to see that there aren't any problems. This is probably a long shot though as I haven't heard even a whisper about it.
My take on this is that Gabe Newell is a very rich, ambitious, and intelligent man. He sees the walls going up around Valve Software at the hands of Microsoft with the Windows 8 integrated store. Newell wants to keep making tons of money so he's going to make his best effort to loosen the grip MS has on his bottom line. Maybe Linux is also a labor of love for him like it is for Mark Shuttleworth. If I was a billionaire, I would be more than happen to lose millions supporting a free operating system so I can see where they might be coming from. From a purely economic perspective, I think they will make money just on the number of Wine users alone. If they achieve their larger goal of making Linux a legitimate general gaming platform that other major publishers develop for then more power to them.
His or anyone else's, like Loki, and you could even buy their ports in electronics botique back in the day.
Then you had to take it home and get it working which was not an easy task. With Windows, you just hit Next Next Next and you were in. Loki games were not at all like that. Also Linux users in absolute numbers were much smaller back then. Just on the basis of sheer quantity of users alone Linux may be a viable gaming platform today. And Valve knows how many people are gaming in Wine. It is a possibility that if they can just convert those users they could make a profit. I'm sure they have run those numbers. Another thing to keep in mind is that Loki games almost always ran worse on Linux than Windows and when you are playing competitive twitch multi-player this matters and will turn even die-hard Linux users off. Valve is addressing this concern by working hand in hand with hardware vendors. Another issue that Valve is addressing is how easy it is to get Linux games. Yes, back in the day you could go to EB and get what you needed. The problem was some people have never even heard of Electronic Boutique and thus were left out. There were other stores too but I don't recall walking into a random computer store or a big box retailer and seeing Quake for Linux on the shelf. Steam fixes this as it opens up the distribution channel to equally as wide as what you have on Windows.
The bottom line is Valve is making a serious effort and are covering bases from top to bottom. Maybe they can pull it off and maybe they can't but if it fails it won't be for the same reasons Loki or id failed.
Console on a stick! I like it but I forsee serious issues with drivers.
I vote the egg was first as there were egg laying species long before the chicken came along but I digress. On topic, Valve knows who's running Steam on Wine so they know at a minimum how big their market can be. Obviously they think it's big enough especially taking the perceived existential risk MS is putting them in with Windows 8.
Price: 4.99 Installs: 100,000-500,000
Price: 6.99 Installs: 100,000--500,000
I really don't have the patience to do this all day for you, AC, but at least do some research before you have your arguments blow up in your face.
ou mean good enough for you and your opinion and standards are forced upon everyone else because you're *obviously* smarter than the rest.
I want you to look very closely at the post you replied to. You'll notice that right under the title there is something that says
by Kimomaru (2579489)
. It doesn't say "by everybody" or even "by some people". It says by that one individual. Also, if you read further it goes on to say,
Speaking for myself
. How are you confused by this?
Yes, there have been many failed attempts at putting Linux at the forefront in the consumer space but just because everybody tried and failed before doesn't mean it isn't possible. Stop rolling your eyes. Android will be an indisputable first class Linux when all their patches hit mainline (if that hasn't happened already). Maybe not GNU/Linux but Linux is pulling the levers and turning the dials underneath just like it is everywhere else it lives. And if you doubt that, check this out.
I love when nerds praise JC but then he speaks the truth about linux and they start dissing him and calling him irrelevant. carmack: OPENGL FASTER THAN DIRECTX!!! TELL EVERYONE!! carmack: LINUX IS STILL NOT VIABLE GAMING PLATFORM!!! DOWN WITH CARMACK HES IRRELEVANT AND DOESNT KNOW WHAT HES TALKING ABOUT!!!!
Hold up there, homeslice. There are a lot of people that post on Slashdot and some of them like Carmack and some of them are Linux users. There is nothing inherently mutually inclusive between these two groups. I think Carmack is cool and I use Linux but nobody is perfect. Note all the people that piss all over Rage and Doom 3 so it is pure strawman to say that every nerd praises him at every turn. He says that Linux isn't a viable gaming platform and his main argument is that he failed to crack it. That's not a good argument as to why Valve can't make it happen. Matter of fact Valve is taking a completely different approach so it is unlikely that any conclusions can be drawn from id's experience in the space. Maybe you and Carmack should wait and see. Newell and co. might just show us all how it's done.
No, bad idea. Most Linux users will just turn their nose up and not use it. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way but in a very practical sense. Linux is a general purpose OS and I'm going to want to run more than just games so any version I use on my desktop will need a fully stocked package manager and at least a fairly typical LSB standard directory tree etc. Maybe do a thing with Ubuntu where Ubuntu is the blessed distro and has all the goodies packed in with a one click install or whatever. I'd like to see some good hardware that comes with Ubuntu and Steam out of the box maybe sold by Canonical or a distributor like System76. Something like that maybe but I don't think them doing their own distro is going to be the answer as that gets them into a non-core space where they could easily screw up.
I won't mean anything if the only games they bring over is L4D2 and Portal.
That's pure strawman and you know it. There is no way that only those two games will be on Linux. Peruse steam and look at the games for Mac and that will give you at least an idea of what can be expected for Linux. Also bear in mind the relative ease of porting between OS X and Linux (kind of like porting between iOS and Android) and you instantly add a significant amount of people to your potential non-Windows user base which should have a nice additive effect and make even more games show up in the Mac/Linux column.
Steam on Linux is 100% panic from Valve realizing that Steam is about to become irrelevant.
I'm sure it started out that way but who fucking cares? It's happening so they might as well give it all they have and make it work. As a Linux user I benefit and will definitely buy games.
However at the end of the day it will be a huge money looser due to the small desktop install base.
There is absolutely no way that just one data point like that means they will lose money. There is so much more that goes into the economics of a decision like this. Maybe Valve isn't worried about making money right off the bat? Maybe it is a political move? Is MS making money off the XBox in the aggregate yet? Newell is pissed about Windows 8 and that seems to be the primary motivator of this move and not making money in the short term. I'd take a more wait and see approach rather than knee jerk cynicism.
First of all, the Linux userbase is really small to begin with. Within that small userbase, you have two relatively large groups:
1. The ideologues, who really believe in RMS's idea that proprietary software is unethical.
2. The cheapskates, who aren't going to pay for software.
Do you have any actual evidence that the Linux userbase is composed primarily of these two groups? Because anecdotally I hear lots of Linux users that are chomping at the bit for Steam to come and looking forward to paying for games. Furthermore, the Humble Indie Bundle has shown that there are gamers on Linux that will pay. Will that translate to profit for Valve et al? Who knows. But it does show that you, dear AC, have no idea what you are talking about.
As far as I can tell Carmack's efforts boiled down to trying to sell individual games mostly and to just accept things on Linux as they are for better or worse. What Valve is doing is trying to integrate their entire platform and being a game delivery network that works across Windows Mac and Linux, that's exactly what it is...a platform. Just like the browser is a platform. Valve is also apparently working hand in hand with the big players in the Linux graphics card space to make drivers first class. They are profiling to find bottlenecks in how their code integrates with the kernel. Valve is making a very serious effort here and it extends beyond anything Carmack has tried so far. If anything maybe Carmack could learn something instead of just lambasting because he couldn't see it through. Of course these are early days still and Steam for Linux hasn't even been released yet which even more makes me wonder why Carmack is already predicting Doom (get it?) for it.
His company's foray into Linux gaming hasn't panned out. That doesn't mean that a different strategy might not work. That's like saying that because MS tried to find consumer success with tablets for over a decade that there is no chance anyone else could do it...er...
And if I flipped ten heads in a row the next one must surely be tails right? Right?
Go kill yourself now shill.
Great. I'll be looking out for it!