What MSFT tried to do with Java is EXACTLY what Google is trying to do now to Java
This is patently untrue. MS tried to pass off their vm as the real jvm. Google has never said that Dalvik is in any way shape or form a JVM. And furthermore, Dalvik bytecode will not run on the jvm and java bytecode will not run in Dalvik. Why do you miscreants insist on twisting the basic facts of this case to confirm your own anti-Google biases? If Google is guilty of anything at all, it is using patented technology that is owned by Oracle which a completely different ball of wax than what MS did. Please read up on the history of the two cases or just STFU. Your utter cluelessness has made it impossible for me to muster the energy to read the rest of your rant.
Oh, no, I wasn't arguing any of that, it's just that a lot of people are confused on how statute of limitations works so I was just clearing that up. Cheers, mate.
The statute of limitations clock kicks in when somebody first discovers you have committed an illegal act at some point in the past. From that point on, they have the option of actually having you charged or not for the duration of the limitation statute. It has nothing to do with when the act itself was actually committed.
Taking this a step further since one must be alive to commit a crime why not outlaw life!?
Interestingly enough, the implications of that make about as much sense as the particular combination of words you've used here as a reply. Stated differently, your response is completely orthogonal to what you responded to.
I can't speak for anyone else but that's all I'm asking for. What were you thinking? Oh, and that 10 year ago thing is just the one most people are familiar with so it doesn't require a lot of explanation. There are many more and more recent examples of market abuse.
Assuming you have at least one speeding ticket and a history of recently purchasing a car capable of going past the speed limit, clearly, the same conditions you describe applying to MS apply to you as well.
It would not apply to me unless I had sped many times and in a certain way.
If you speed recklessly enough and a certain number of times, you will lose your license. And, of course, that would apply to me and everyone else. MS has abused their market position many times in the past. They must submit to increased scrutiny like any repeat offender.
Look, let me break this down for you. Here is what I originally replied to.
by dave420 (699308) Right. So now is not the time to complain - wait for the bad deed to actually occur before screaming about said bad deed.
First of all, the "not the time to complain" part is absurd. Of course I can "complain" about the potential for monopoly abuse when MS makes an acquisition of a major piece of cross-platform software based on their history. It would be irrational not to make a point of what has happened in the past when conditions exist for a repetition. Should we just burn all of the civil war history books to? The Spanish inquisition? Come on.
And the second part "wait for the bad deed to actually occur before screaming about said bad deed" is just nonsense. Nobody is saying "Microsoft has killed the voip market" people are saying "let's keep an eye on this so abuses like what have happened in the past don't happen again" which make perfect sense.
The only thing laughable is your absurd argument that really boils down to your opinion that a company (MS) that has been convicted of using their monopoly (Windows) to prop up a product (Internet Explorer) in the past to kill a competitor (Netscape) shouldn't be held to a higher level of scrutiny when the potential for that kind of abuse exists again. And the Internet Explorer situation is just one example of many. How about using their windows leverage to force every computer shipped by a manufacturer to have a paid Windows license whether it has the software on it or not? I'm sorry, but some people actually like competition.
I'm calling the police to have them write you a ticket for speeding, because you own a car, and I feel like you might speed,
MS has been convicted of leveraging their monopoly on desktop operating systems to undermine the competitive market in an illegal way, i.e. tying internet explorer.
in fact, you've probably gotten a ticket of some sort relating to vehicles in the past demonstrating a history of illegal vehicle use, so waiting until you actually speed to write you a ticket it a waste of time. All police should do this. Just imagine how great it would be when police are able to actually ticket people BEFORE the offense. Next, we should just throw people in jail before they commit crimes, that would be awesome.
If you want an equivalent analogy that is actually apt, think about a repetitive drunk driver losing his license for life. MS should always be under intense scrutiny based on their recurring and willful abuses of the market and consumer choice.
wait for the bad deed to actually occur before screaming about said bad deed.
Ordinarily, yes. However, in Microsoft's case, they have a demonstrable history of leveraging their "monopoly" to prop up their offerings in other markets ultimately dominating those markets, reducing consumer choice, then leaving the product to stagnate with no other real alternative. IE6 is the premier example of this. They tried to do it with Java but Sun managed to stop them. Personally, I like real competition. The mobile device industry is on fire right now with newer and better products coming out seemingly everyday. Of course there is a fly inthe ointment. MS, not content to compete on merit, has made it obvious that they will do anything possible to destroy competition through any means necessary. Skype is an important application for all devices. The last thing we need is to just sit and wait hoping for MS' good will.
Why? Because you all keep saying it? It doesn't really work that way. Furthermore, ps, no matter its merits is only one tool. There are many others you will need to imitate to match Linux.
I have 20 year old bash scripts that work perfectly. Sed, awk, find, grep, etc. don't change much. Please find a real complaint. Furthermore, you have no way of knowing that your scripts on ps will work 20 years from now. I mean, it's not like MS deprecates api's right? How do you know powershell itself will be here then? If ms drops it, you're screwed. Bash can't be dropped. It's just a./configure make make install away.
Those cli utilities are 30 plus years old. Any sysadmin worth his salt will know them inside and out. How is the syntax any more arcane than what is spit out by ps? And, er, last I checked the ease with which completely unrelated utilities can be chained is the point!
Hahaha. You actually think ps is a substitute for bash, screen, puppet, openssh, expect, etc.? What a fucking joke. And you got a +5? I know you shills come here because Slashdot is the "happening" spot and fertile Astroturf ground but, trust me, it won't last. What do you do when this site has lost every shred of reputation and credibility because you and your ilk have turned it into a ms circle jerk cesspool? Go back to engadget?
Posted as me. 'Cause I care.
Re:KDE is really good now..
on
KDE 4.6.3 Released
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I personally think Kde4 is fantastic and I'd be thrilled to use it for more than the 5 minutes it always takes me before I scuttle off back to Gnome were it not for one thing. The kickoff menu is a complete disaster. Tabs lining the bottom and a complete click and delayed hoverfest to find anything. it's pure abomination. And the classic menu omits the one thing that makes the new menu useable: instant search. Lancelot is terrible too, imho. If there were just a good menu for the panel, I'd be using kde. until then, Gnome 2.32 for me.
Slashdot Mirror
I absolutely hate the design decision that says the user should not be allowed to shut down an application.
System.exit(0);
Ask for it by name.
What MSFT tried to do with Java is EXACTLY what Google is trying to do now to Java
This is patently untrue. MS tried to pass off their vm as the real jvm. Google has never said that Dalvik is in any way shape or form a JVM. And furthermore, Dalvik bytecode will not run on the jvm and java bytecode will not run in Dalvik. Why do you miscreants insist on twisting the basic facts of this case to confirm your own anti-Google biases? If Google is guilty of anything at all, it is using patented technology that is owned by Oracle which a completely different ball of wax than what MS did. Please read up on the history of the two cases or just STFU. Your utter cluelessness has made it impossible for me to muster the energy to read the rest of your rant.
Oh, no, I wasn't arguing any of that, it's just that a lot of people are confused on how statute of limitations works so I was just clearing that up. Cheers, mate.
The statute of limitations clock kicks in when somebody first discovers you have committed an illegal act at some point in the past. From that point on, they have the option of actually having you charged or not for the duration of the limitation statute. It has nothing to do with when the act itself was actually committed.
Exactly. Those guys are idiots and deserve to be mocked.
Taking this a step further since one must be alive to commit a crime why not outlaw life!?
Interestingly enough, the implications of that make about as much sense as the particular combination of words you've used here as a reply. Stated differently, your response is completely orthogonal to what you responded to.
Scrutiny...without a doubt.
I can't speak for anyone else but that's all I'm asking for. What were you thinking? Oh, and that 10 year ago thing is just the one most people are familiar with so it doesn't require a lot of explanation. There are many more and more recent examples of market abuse.
Assuming you have at least one speeding ticket and a history of recently purchasing a car capable of going past the speed limit, clearly, the same conditions you describe applying to MS apply to you as well.
It would not apply to me unless I had sped many times and in a certain way. If you speed recklessly enough and a certain number of times, you will lose your license. And, of course, that would apply to me and everyone else. MS has abused their market position many times in the past. They must submit to increased scrutiny like any repeat offender.
by dave420 (699308) Right. So now is not the time to complain - wait for the bad deed to actually occur before screaming about said bad deed.
First of all, the "not the time to complain" part is absurd. Of course I can "complain" about the potential for monopoly abuse when MS makes an acquisition of a major piece of cross-platform software based on their history. It would be irrational not to make a point of what has happened in the past when conditions exist for a repetition. Should we just burn all of the civil war history books to? The Spanish inquisition? Come on.
And the second part "wait for the bad deed to actually occur before screaming about said bad deed" is just nonsense. Nobody is saying "Microsoft has killed the voip market" people are saying "let's keep an eye on this so abuses like what have happened in the past don't happen again" which make perfect sense.
Your post is about things that occurred over 10 years ago,
Only because it is an example that most people will be familiar with. There are many more that would satisfy your desire for contemporaneity.
refute the point about actually needing a bad deed to complain about.
Repeat and egregious offenders require more scrutiny.
The only thing laughable is your absurd argument that really boils down to your opinion that a company (MS) that has been convicted of using their monopoly (Windows) to prop up a product (Internet Explorer) in the past to kill a competitor (Netscape) shouldn't be held to a higher level of scrutiny when the potential for that kind of abuse exists again. And the Internet Explorer situation is just one example of many. How about using their windows leverage to force every computer shipped by a manufacturer to have a paid Windows license whether it has the software on it or not? I'm sorry, but some people actually like competition.
I'm calling the police to have them write you a ticket for speeding, because you own a car, and I feel like you might speed,
MS has been convicted of leveraging their monopoly on desktop operating systems to undermine the competitive market in an illegal way, i.e. tying internet explorer.
in fact, you've probably gotten a ticket of some sort relating to vehicles in the past demonstrating a history of illegal vehicle use, so waiting until you actually speed to write you a ticket it a waste of time. All police should do this. Just imagine how great it would be when police are able to actually ticket people BEFORE the offense. Next, we should just throw people in jail before they commit crimes, that would be awesome.
If you want an equivalent analogy that is actually apt, think about a repetitive drunk driver losing his license for life. MS should always be under intense scrutiny based on their recurring and willful abuses of the market and consumer choice.
How is buying a voice over IP product and tying it to windows using their monopoly to bolster offerings in other markets?
The succinctness with which you answered your own question is almost Koan-worthy.
wait for the bad deed to actually occur before screaming about said bad deed.
Ordinarily, yes. However, in Microsoft's case, they have a demonstrable history of leveraging their "monopoly" to prop up their offerings in other markets ultimately dominating those markets, reducing consumer choice, then leaving the product to stagnate with no other real alternative. IE6 is the premier example of this. They tried to do it with Java but Sun managed to stop them. Personally, I like real competition. The mobile device industry is on fire right now with newer and better products coming out seemingly everyday. Of course there is a fly in the ointment. MS, not content to compete on merit, has made it obvious that they will do anything possible to destroy competition through any means necessary. Skype is an important application for all devices. The last thing we need is to just sit and wait hoping for MS' good will.
Well, you can count me in!
Not true at all
Why? Because you all keep saying it? It doesn't really work that way. Furthermore, ps, no matter its merits is only one tool. There are many others you will need to imitate to match Linux.
I have 20 year old bash scripts that work perfectly. Sed, awk, find, grep, etc. don't change much. Please find a real complaint. Furthermore, you have no way of knowing that your scripts on ps will work 20 years from now. I mean, it's not like MS deprecates api's right? How do you know powershell itself will be here then? If ms drops it, you're screwed. Bash can't be dropped. It's just a ./configure make make install away.
Then you'll just love xdotools. Just an apt-get install away in your distro of choice. For even more fun, throw in some python.
Those cli utilities are 30 plus years old. Any sysadmin worth his salt will know them inside and out. How is the syntax any more arcane than what is spit out by ps? And, er, last I checked the ease with which completely unrelated utilities can be chained is the point!
Posted as me. 'Cause I care.
I personally think Kde4 is fantastic and I'd be thrilled to use it for more than the 5 minutes it always takes me before I scuttle off back to Gnome were it not for one thing. The kickoff menu is a complete disaster. Tabs lining the bottom and a complete click and delayed hoverfest to find anything. it's pure abomination. And the classic menu omits the one thing that makes the new menu useable: instant search. Lancelot is terrible too, imho. If there were just a good menu for the panel, I'd be using kde. until then, Gnome 2.32 for me.
Er, despite what? Android is not developed in the open so Linus' Law is null and void as far as it is concerned.
That's a conversion tool. Pyjamas will convert python to javascript. Does that mean Python programs will run on Spidermonkey? Thought not.
they can't use Google to search for it, conflict of interest. Anyone want to e-mail them the http://www.bing.com/ link?
Don't think that will help either.