Yep, it's never helpful to say open source is always superior to proprietary software, or vice-versa for that matter. I shudder to imagine what the world would be like without Apache, but I think I could probably live without Sunbird... as you might have guessed.:)
"it's possible to make iCal a lot better, but the groundwork is there"
Good point, and oftentimes I do wish it were possible to hack proprietary software to add missing features and the like.
How do you suggest I contribute, though? Should I submit a bug to Bugzilla titled "Interface is wretched"? Should I write to the developers with a point-by-point list of what might be improved, or would they consider this whining?
I suppose I could commission a graphic artist to make it look better, but iCal already suits me fine...:)
Fact is, this particular interface innovation appeared, in its present form, first in Mac OS X circa 2000--long predating Firefox and Thunderbird.
Nothing's wrong with copying interfaces, of course, but doing so sort of undermines the argument that open-source software is creative and original in its own right.
True. I still think it's dangerous to suggest the "customize toolbar" dialog couldn't possibly be improved or completely reimplemented... there's always a zillion ways to do these things that no one's imagined yet.
It just rubs me the wrong way when you hear (from some people) open source foo is superior to proprietary foo, or more conducive to creativity, or more original or whatever. Because even as they speak, the other hand's busy ripping off proprietary innovations like this toolbar interface.
I think I was trying to point out that the Firefox developers could have come up with a way of doing things, crossplatform or no, that didn't give the appearance of ripping interface features shamelessly off the Mac. And in the process, who knows--maybe they could have come up with something better than Cocoa's customize toolbar panel.
I mean, it seems to me you could just as easily say: iCal works, so why mess with it?
Well, you'd think the Firefox developers could come up with a better (easier, faster, more efficient, more intuitive) way to do it than Mac OS X does. Like I said elsewhere, you can't innovate and improve upon an original by making a direct copy. And I don't think there's any way to look at those two screenshots and say one wasn't ripped off the other.
And where did Firefox rip it off of? Yeah, that's right: the "customize toolbar" panel built into Mac OS X's Cocoa framework.
An exact copy is never better than the original. In order to make it better, it must, at a minimum, be different (not that everything different is automatically better).
Yeah, I momentarily considered rewriting the "innovators such as Apple" part, but I figured... you know, it's been a while since I've seen a healthy flamewar here. Looks like I got what I deserved.:)
Robertson said he's not worried about the record labels and their requirements for rights-management technology.... "I think the labels are interested in one thing: selling," he said. "If you build the audience they will come.
I think he's probably right, but I wonder if the bigwigs at the record labels are willing (or even care) to listen to his argument. It's not as if Apple didn't try:
When we first went to talk to these record companies -- you know, it was a while ago. It took us 18 months. And at first we said: None of this technology that you're talking about's gonna work. We have Ph.D.'s here, that know the stuff cold, and we don't believe it's possible to protect digital content....
And the way we expressed it to them is: Pick one lock -- open every door. It only takes one person to pick a lock. Worst case: Somebody just takes the analog outputs of their CD player and rerecords it -- puts it on the Internet. You'll never stop that. So what you have to do is compete with it.
At first, they kicked us out. But we kept going back again and again. The first record company to really understand this stuff was Warner. They have some smart people there, and they said: We agree with you. And next was Universal. Then we started making headway. And the reason we did, I think, is because we made predictions.
I think the general consensus is that even though Jobs and his "Ph.D.s" knew DRM is always crackable, Apple still needed to implement some form of DRM in order to convince the record labels to open their catalogs. For the record companies in April of 2003, ever chary of the Internet, DRM was non-negotiable.
My question is: what's changed since then that would cause them to reconsider? After all, iTunes has shown that a service offering DRM tracks can be wildly successful. So why would the record labels want to open their catalogs to a DRM-free solution from some dude who made his name pawning a Linux desktop?
Anyway, this is definitely something to watch. I sincerely wish him luck. I just hope he can get the labels to open their catalogs.
I know. By "innovation" I meant a usable mp3 player.
No one person, or company, invented the mp3 player. Apple "did not invent" the mp3 player in the same sense that the Wright brothers "did not invent" the manned flying machine.
The Microsoft employee's open letter to Bill Gates almost made me choke. In case you haven't read it, let me paraphrase: "How do we make an iPod killer?" he asks rhetorically. "First we must harness the blogosphere!" he answers. "Then we'll design the interface by committee. Synergize, baby."
Anyway, I found it interesting how clearly the note reveals (what seems to be) Microsoft's general thought process. Never lead, always follow. I mean, how pathetic is this sort of blatant, shameless me-tooism? While innovators like Apple are trying to build the future, Microsoft employees like this guy are trying desperately to catch up... and they still can't figure out how.
Just my two cents from an Apple fanboy. Flame on...
Where in the U.S. do you live? I'm on Road Runner in NYC, and I haven't seen an increase in my speed... then again, I leech off one of the thirty wireless networks in range of my apartment. So who knows.
Wow, is this for real? Michael is gone from the list of Slashdot editors (here's a Google cache from this morning). And he doesn't seem to have posted anything today either.
Michael's departure, if true, would be the best thing to happen to Slashdot in a long time... and I've got two karma points to burn for saying so.
Things could certainly stand to improve in the U.S., too. Reading about the administration's arbitrary suspension of civil liberties for Gitmo detainees makes me feel ill.
"In 2004, Americans' support for their First Amendment freedoms -- deeply shaken by the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 -- continues to rebound and is back at pre-9/11 levels, according to the annual State of the First Amendment survey, conducted by the First Amendment Center in collaboration with American Journalism Review magazine."
Canada I can buy. But freedom in Europe? Try wearing a Muslim headscarf to school in France. Go to Germany and try accessing content the Bundestag declares "indecent". Stop being so shrill and "wake up" to the fact that whatever it is you hold dear isn't so goddamn holy after all.
"Only half the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories"? Yikes.
Inside me is a kneejerk activist who wants to point to this as evidence that growing up, as children have since 9/11/01, surrounded by authority figures who casually restrict freedom of speech in the name of guarding against terrorism, encourages children to pattern their thoughts and behavior along similar unfortunate lines.
But actually, I'd like to know what similar studies have been conducted in years past. If this is the way young adults have always thought, then things probably won't get any worse. What would be disturbing is a trend showing young adults finding restrictions on free speech increasingly acceptable.
If you've got a heart of steel, you can do what I did: pound it back into shape with the blunt end of a screwdriver. Don't forget to turn it off first.:)
Slashdot Mirror
Yep, it's never helpful to say open source is always superior to proprietary software, or vice-versa for that matter. I shudder to imagine what the world would be like without Apache, but I think I could probably live without Sunbird... as you might have guessed. :)
"it's possible to make iCal a lot better, but the groundwork is there"
:)
Good point, and oftentimes I do wish it were possible to hack proprietary software to add missing features and the like.
How do you suggest I contribute, though? Should I submit a bug to Bugzilla titled "Interface is wretched"? Should I write to the developers with a point-by-point list of what might be improved, or would they consider this whining?
I suppose I could commission a graphic artist to make it look better, but iCal already suits me fine...
Fact is, this particular interface innovation appeared, in its present form, first in Mac OS X circa 2000--long predating Firefox and Thunderbird.
Nothing's wrong with copying interfaces, of course, but doing so sort of undermines the argument that open-source software is creative and original in its own right.
True. I still think it's dangerous to suggest the "customize toolbar" dialog couldn't possibly be improved or completely reimplemented... there's always a zillion ways to do these things that no one's imagined yet.
It just rubs me the wrong way when you hear (from some people) open source foo is superior to proprietary foo, or more conducive to creativity, or more original or whatever. Because even as they speak, the other hand's busy ripping off proprietary innovations like this toolbar interface.
I think I was trying to point out that the Firefox developers could have come up with a way of doing things, crossplatform or no, that didn't give the appearance of ripping interface features shamelessly off the Mac. And in the process, who knows--maybe they could have come up with something better than Cocoa's customize toolbar panel.
I mean, it seems to me you could just as easily say: iCal works, so why mess with it?
Well, you'd think the Firefox developers could come up with a better (easier, faster, more efficient, more intuitive) way to do it than Mac OS X does. Like I said elsewhere, you can't innovate and improve upon an original by making a direct copy. And I don't think there's any way to look at those two screenshots and say one wasn't ripped off the other.
And where did Firefox rip it off of? Yeah, that's right: the "customize toolbar" panel built into Mac OS X's Cocoa framework.
An exact copy is never better than the original. In order to make it better, it must, at a minimum, be different (not that everything different is automatically better).
...if iCal got clubbed in the face with a truncheon.
Also, this is cribbed directly from Mac OS X. Good job, fellas. How about coming up with something new and better for once?
Yeah, I momentarily considered rewriting the "innovators such as Apple" part, but I figured... you know, it's been a while since I've seen a healthy flamewar here. Looks like I got what I deserved. :)
I think he's probably right, but I wonder if the bigwigs at the record labels are willing (or even care) to listen to his argument. It's not as if Apple didn't try:
I think the general consensus is that even though Jobs and his "Ph.D.s" knew DRM is always crackable, Apple still needed to implement some form of DRM in order to convince the record labels to open their catalogs. For the record companies in April of 2003, ever chary of the Internet, DRM was non-negotiable.
My question is: what's changed since then that would cause them to reconsider? After all, iTunes has shown that a service offering DRM tracks can be wildly successful. So why would the record labels want to open their catalogs to a DRM-free solution from some dude who made his name pawning a Linux desktop?
Anyway, this is definitely something to watch. I sincerely wish him luck. I just hope he can get the labels to open their catalogs.
...but my two points of karma say you're spot-on.
I know. By "innovation" I meant a usable mp3 player.
No one person, or company, invented the mp3 player. Apple "did not invent" the mp3 player in the same sense that the Wright brothers "did not invent" the manned flying machine.
The Microsoft employee's open letter to Bill Gates almost made me choke. In case you haven't read it, let me paraphrase: "How do we make an iPod killer?" he asks rhetorically. "First we must harness the blogosphere!" he answers. "Then we'll design the interface by committee. Synergize, baby."
Anyway, I found it interesting how clearly the note reveals (what seems to be) Microsoft's general thought process. Never lead, always follow. I mean, how pathetic is this sort of blatant, shameless me-tooism? While innovators like Apple are trying to build the future, Microsoft employees like this guy are trying desperately to catch up... and they still can't figure out how.
Just my two cents from an Apple fanboy. Flame on...
Where in the U.S. do you live? I'm on Road Runner in NYC, and I haven't seen an increase in my speed... then again, I leech off one of the thirty wireless networks in range of my apartment. So who knows.
Wow, is this for real? Michael is gone from the list of Slashdot editors (here's a Google cache from this morning). And he doesn't seem to have posted anything today either.
Michael's departure, if true, would be the best thing to happen to Slashdot in a long time... and I've got two karma points to burn for saying so.
Anyone got the sordid details?
Or "informative".
Things could certainly stand to improve in the U.S., too. Reading about the administration's arbitrary suspension of civil liberties for Gitmo detainees makes me feel ill.
"In 2004, Americans' support for their First Amendment freedoms -- deeply shaken by the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 -- continues to rebound and is back at pre-9/11 levels, according to the annual State of the First Amendment survey, conducted by the First Amendment Center in collaboration with American Journalism Review magazine."
Sounds hopeful...
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.
Canada I can buy. But freedom in Europe? Try wearing a Muslim headscarf to school in France. Go to Germany and try accessing content the Bundestag declares "indecent". Stop being so shrill and "wake up" to the fact that whatever it is you hold dear isn't so goddamn holy after all.
Uh, no. Look, I dislike Bush and "his" administration passionately, but that's just pure flamebait... and offtopic, I might add.
"Only half the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories"? Yikes.
Inside me is a kneejerk activist who wants to point to this as evidence that growing up, as children have since 9/11/01, surrounded by authority figures who casually restrict freedom of speech in the name of guarding against terrorism, encourages children to pattern their thoughts and behavior along similar unfortunate lines.
But actually, I'd like to know what similar studies have been conducted in years past. If this is the way young adults have always thought, then things probably won't get any worse. What would be disturbing is a trend showing young adults finding restrictions on free speech increasingly acceptable.
Whoops, no, you're right, sorry.
Wait a minute, are you sure that's right? Won't your formula give you the pixels per diagonal inch?
If you've got a heart of steel, you can do what I did: pound it back into shape with the blunt end of a screwdriver. Don't forget to turn it off first. :)