Well, that's a typical attitude to people who are usually a lot older:P, and got too used to CLIs.
GUIs offer many many advantages, every tried doing any form of drawing with the keyboard and text?
You can tend to display HEAPS more information with GUIs without clutering than you can with text based systems, where the amount of individual symbols available is quite limited (sure you could remap them and form bitmaps - but then you're just going graphical in a lame sort of way).
Even for programmers, having nice highlighting, different fonts etc for different parts of the source code can aid reading immensly. Hey you can't have intellisense (very easily anyway) without a GUI based system:) - intellisense being tooltips and popups of function signatures and class members.
I suppose you could work with CLI, but why not make it easier on yourself? There are things which make it easier for humans, and though it might feel cool to make things difficult on yourself (if you even know you're doing that) but you can probably get a lot more work done making it easier on yourself.
You can use GUIs, and not have to give up your CLI shells either.. xterm, cmd.exe etc
I believe OLE2 includes specs for property interfaces and propertypages.
:).
I realise it's based on CORBA, but corba is only the building blocks of a larger technology brought to life by Microsoft. COM's strength is mostly in it's vivid and wide range of interfaces and defacto standards for things like compound documents, persistance etc.
Um, I believe it does work with other servers. I remember reading an article on how to get windows 2000 KDCs to work with non-w2k ones...on microsoft.com no less.
Why can they even call it Kerberos in the first place? It's not Kerberos anymore, it's some wacky proprietary authentication since they hacked it all up.
Um cause it is? It generally works ok with other kerberos servers, and the method of adding 'extensions' was within the kerberos spec.
For more than 4 generations the IT Professionals were the guardians of qualty and stability in software. Before the dark times. Before Microsoft...
Funny how you are quick to point out how it's unrealistic to expect programmers to understand every aspect of their code, but then seem to support the idea that before microsoft there was "stable" software. Software engineering sucks, inside and outside of Microsoft.
Microsoft have the largest online developer support database, and also have the best developer subsription and network system.
I'm saying that don't NEED to document everything about how windows works (eg. explain to everyone how to write windows)...but just how to write windows applications.
Your thought that Microsoft want to be the only ones who write windows software is just so lame. Microsoft and Windows are successfull cause they've manage to evanlegise enough developers.
And comparing software to gas tanks exploding?
Reality check...everyone who's anyone knows that Software Engineering is something that's not well understood, and is far from perfect. I suggest you take a course in Software Engineering.
They act like ordinary control widgets, and deactivate if you move the mouse too far from them. In other words, if you want to scroll down you have to keep the pointer within a few tens of pixels of the scroll bar in the X direction, or the thumb pops back up to where you started scrolling! Argh! Why can't it just read the Y position?
That's funny, here, they follow the Y range unless your mouse moves around 200 pixels away from the scroll bar in either direction, in which case they drop, but if you keep the mouse button down and move back around the area of the scrollbar you'll have control bar.
The athena scrollbars SUCK. They just seems like a sad excuse to show off all the mouse buttons.
This is, to say it politely, bullshit. The Win32 API specs are carefully crafted to be incomplete. They tell you just enough to get locked in to Windows, but not enough to actually make a product that would compete with Microsoft.
You're telling me that in order to compete with a large product microsoft produces...like say Microsoft Office, competitors like Corel and Sun need to know InitializeSecurityContext?
Most of these APIs are moderately documented on MSDN. That's a hell of a lot better than the ridiculus JavaDOC sun passess off as documentation (like getContext() - gets the context).
I don't think Microsoft goes out of their way to document native NT "APIs", but they do document a heck of a lot of Win32 APIs quite well. How the heck do you think so much of Windows Software can actually be written. The 99.999% of these so called 'hidden APIs' would be used by 0.001% of software companies out there. Simply cause they don't need it.
Maybe some of those APIs would help people that need to do low level stuff like Oracle. Symantec seem to do quite a lot of low level stuff (but maybe they get special secrets from Microsoft).
I disagree on your points about COM+/ADSI and DHTML though. Microsoft has done a heck of a lot to make people aware of these technologies and how to use them, there was even an MSDN show on ADSI, MSDN's web workshop and DHTML dude covers DHTML quite well, and COM+ has been covered to death by both MSDN and DevDays. How many APIs does Sun document for StarOffice? Maybe Microsoft's problem is actually making so many of their appliactions have such accessible APIs. They explicitly add APIs to Office that other people can use, they do that with IE, and their other major applications too. Perhaps if they made everything monolithic and unextendable (like netscape), it would make some people happier - but I can assure you, developers wouldn't be.
I really do believe Microsoft is one of the companies in the industry who actually does the best documenting. Just look at MSDN and stuff...even Microsoft's C documentation kicks the butt off Unix C man pages.
They do not document a few of their exported functions, or core functions, but I'm not so sure they really had to in the first place. Now they're offering to release it all on request (seeing as everyone is whining).
- what gives microsoft the right to 'contend' anything? To say the two are integrated are like saying Qbasic.exe & Edit.com are integrated. It would take all of a few seconds to remove the code for the browser completely. To "Hide" the software simply means that microsoft will have IE located on the programs menu when you load windows instead of automatically putting it on the desktop. Or it will appear when you set internet options under control panel.
well actually it is a bit like qbasic and edit. is it qbasic that uses edit or edit that uses qbasic? Essentially a lot of Windows now days uses HTML based interfaces. The windows HELP system (which is used by non-microsoft software as well) uses HTML, and many of the "next generation" controls and interfaces for Windows will use DHTML (this allows easy skinning and further seperates the interface from the code logic). Removing IE from Windows would render many Windows services useless - eg. they would stop working. It would be like forcing Microsoft to remove Windows Common Controls from windows so that GTK for Windows can compete.
What Microsoft is saying now is, hey, we don't give a shit about the webbrowser as a simple browser anymore, we just want to use HTML interfaces in Windows (as are many other companies). So if you're worried about us forcing people to use IE to access the web, then we'll hide all the ways they can do that. But normal windows apps that use HTML interfaces will still be able to work.
I don't think you realise how much Windows, and new Windows software are actually using HTMl based interfaces, even applications like WinAMP have their own webbrowser (based on MS's Webbrowser ActiveX Conotrol - eg. IE).
This "exciting technology" (COM) has been the power of windows for YEARS. Nice to see everyone is starting to copy it (without any nod to microsoft i might add).
Watch this.. Remember the MS philosophy of "Embrace and extend". They will start claiming that this is "Open Source" in the truest sense, and by means of massive advertising to Ofcourse the article doesn't mention anything about open source.
Um, no it could do that. Just like you could if you felt like it strip down windows (take out the shell etc).
But does it ever ship like that? No.
Forcing microsoft to limit the feature set in Windows so other lamer OSs can catch up is just so stupid. They can do what ever the hell they want with their OS damn it.
Mindless dribble. "Fighting those new Pocket PCs", uh Palm is the one with the monopoly.
And at least with Pocket PCs you have a lot of choice in what you can buy. Compaq has a very small Pocket PC that's the same size as the Palm V. Most other Pocket PCs are only slightly larger, and are comparable to the other Plam models size wize.
Features wise and readability, there's no comparison.
With ASP you can use any ActiveX scripting language you want (VBScript, JScript, PerlScript). And also Interdev has a kick ass ASP debugger (server side and client side debugging).
Step-Step debugging of ASP rocks...
Takes sun like 5 years to even get something like that for java that's worth using.
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Well, that's a typical attitude to people who are usually a lot older :P, and got too used to CLIs.
:) - intellisense being tooltips and popups of function signatures and class members.
GUIs offer many many advantages, every tried doing any form of drawing with the keyboard and text?
You can tend to display HEAPS more information with GUIs without clutering than you can with text based systems, where the amount of individual symbols available is quite limited (sure you could remap them and form bitmaps - but then you're just going graphical in a lame sort of way).
Even for programmers, having nice highlighting, different fonts etc for different parts of the source code can aid reading immensly. Hey you can't have intellisense (very easily anyway) without a GUI based system
I suppose you could work with CLI, but why not make it easier on yourself? There are things which make it easier for humans, and though it might feel cool to make things difficult on yourself (if you even know you're doing that) but you can probably get a lot more work done making it easier on yourself.
You can use GUIs, and not have to give up your CLI shells either.. xterm, cmd.exe etc
that alt-f then m for rename type shortcut, which isn't much of a shortcut at all
Well it's not really a shortcut, it's a keyboard accelerator for the menus.
The real shortcut key is F2 (which is used in heaps of apps - in Excel for editing a cell for example).
I believe OLE2 includes specs for property interfaces and propertypages.
:).
I realise it's based on CORBA, but corba is only the building blocks of a larger technology brought to life by Microsoft. COM's strength is mostly in it's vivid and wide range of interfaces and defacto standards for things like compound documents, persistance etc.
Geee, and where did the ideas for Bonobo come from? :)
Microsoft sucks, never innovates, but we'll steal all their ideas!
Here
:P
Um actually the windows gdi(which is not a gui) is not in kernel space, but "gui" itself is in userspace.
Um, I believe it does work with other servers. I remember reading an article on how to get windows 2000 KDCs to work with non-w2k ones...on microsoft.com no less.
Um, didn't picard like conceed to lily and the entire crew after that? :P
And wasn't that line attitude to be 'bad' and vengeful? ala ahab.
Why can they even call it Kerberos in the first place? It's not Kerberos anymore, it's some wacky proprietary authentication since they hacked it all up.
Um cause it is?
It generally works ok with other kerberos servers, and the method of adding 'extensions' was within the kerberos spec.
Because the GPL represents Free Speech
Um, how exactly?
MS ain't gonna commit resources to IPv6 until they see demand for it, and it ain't *really* gonna take off until they do.
Have fun making things up?...seeing as it's about Microsoft and how evil they are, you'll probably get moderated up as 'insightful'.
Technical (Public) Beta
Direct from Microsoft's research group working on ipv6
For more than 4 generations the IT Professionals were the guardians of qualty and stability in software. Before the dark times. Before Microsoft...
Funny how you are quick to point out how it's unrealistic to expect programmers to understand every aspect of their code, but then seem to support the idea that before microsoft there was "stable" software.
Software engineering sucks, inside and outside of Microsoft.
Jealous?
Microsoft have the largest online developer support database, and also have the best developer subsription and network system.
I'm saying that don't NEED to document everything about how windows works (eg. explain to everyone how to write windows)...but just how to write windows applications.
Your thought that Microsoft want to be the only ones who write windows software is just so lame. Microsoft and Windows are successfull cause they've manage to evanlegise enough developers.
And comparing software to gas tanks exploding?
Reality check...everyone who's anyone knows that Software Engineering is something that's not well understood, and is far from perfect. I suggest you take a course in Software Engineering.
They act like ordinary control widgets, and deactivate if you move the mouse too far from them. In other words, if you want to scroll down you have to keep the pointer within a few tens of pixels of the scroll bar in the X direction, or the thumb pops back up to where you started scrolling! Argh! Why can't it just read the Y position?
That's funny, here, they follow the Y range unless your mouse moves around 200 pixels away from the scroll bar in either direction, in which case they drop, but if you keep the mouse button down and move back around the area of the scrollbar you'll have control bar.
The athena scrollbars SUCK. They just seems like a sad excuse to show off all the mouse buttons.
Microsoft documents Win32 for Windows developers.
Microsoft isn't out there to help competitors reverse engineer their work.
Why GPL?
Why should the license be a license that says do whatever RMS wants?
Why not REALLY FREE.
This is, to say it politely, bullshit. The Win32 API specs are carefully crafted to be incomplete. They tell you just enough to get locked in to Windows, but not enough to actually make a product that would compete with Microsoft.
You're telling me that in order to compete with a large product microsoft produces...like say Microsoft Office, competitors like Corel and Sun need to know InitializeSecurityContext?
Most of these APIs are moderately documented on MSDN. That's a hell of a lot better than the ridiculus JavaDOC sun passess off as documentation (like getContext() - gets the context).
I don't think Microsoft goes out of their way to document native NT "APIs", but they do document a heck of a lot of Win32 APIs quite well. How the heck do you think so much of Windows Software can actually be written.
The 99.999% of these so called 'hidden APIs' would be used by 0.001% of software companies out there. Simply cause they don't need it.
Maybe some of those APIs would help people that need to do low level stuff like Oracle. Symantec seem to do quite a lot of low level stuff (but maybe they get special secrets from Microsoft).
I disagree on your points about COM+/ADSI and DHTML though. Microsoft has done a heck of a lot to make people aware of these technologies and how to use them, there was even an MSDN show on ADSI, MSDN's web workshop and DHTML dude covers DHTML quite well, and COM+ has been covered to death by both MSDN and DevDays. How many APIs does Sun document for StarOffice?
Maybe Microsoft's problem is actually making so many of their appliactions have such accessible APIs. They explicitly add APIs to Office that other people can use, they do that with IE, and their other major applications too. Perhaps if they made everything monolithic and unextendable (like netscape), it would make some people happier - but I can assure you, developers wouldn't be.
I really do believe Microsoft is one of the companies in the industry who actually does the best documenting. Just look at MSDN and stuff...even Microsoft's C documentation kicks the butt off Unix C man pages.
They do not document a few of their exported functions, or core functions, but I'm not so sure they really had to in the first place. Now they're offering to release it all on request (seeing as everyone is whining).
- what gives microsoft the right to 'contend' anything? To say the two are integrated are like saying Qbasic.exe & Edit.com are integrated. It would take all of a few seconds to remove the code for the browser completely. To "Hide" the software simply means that microsoft will have IE located on the programs menu when you load windows instead of automatically putting it on the desktop. Or it will appear when you set internet options under control panel.
well actually it is a bit like qbasic and edit. is it qbasic that uses edit or edit that uses qbasic?
Essentially a lot of Windows now days uses HTML based interfaces. The windows HELP system (which is used by non-microsoft software as well) uses HTML, and many of the "next generation" controls and interfaces for Windows will use DHTML (this allows easy skinning and further seperates the interface from the code logic).
Removing IE from Windows would render many Windows services useless - eg. they would stop working. It would be like forcing Microsoft to remove Windows Common Controls from windows so that GTK for Windows can compete.
What Microsoft is saying now is, hey, we don't give a shit about the webbrowser as a simple browser anymore, we just want to use HTML interfaces in Windows (as are many other companies). So if you're worried about us forcing people to use IE to access the web, then we'll hide all the ways they can do that. But normal windows apps that use HTML interfaces will still be able to work.
I don't think you realise how much Windows, and new Windows software are actually using HTMl based interfaces, even applications like WinAMP have their own webbrowser (based on MS's Webbrowser ActiveX Conotrol - eg. IE).
Beat that MS.
I think they did, it's called IE5.
This "exciting technology" (COM) has been the power of windows for YEARS. Nice to see everyone is starting to copy it (without any nod to microsoft i might add).
Watch this.. Remember the MS philosophy of "Embrace and extend". They will start claiming that this is "Open Source" in the truest sense, and by means of massive advertising to Ofcourse the article doesn't mention anything about open source.
Um, no it could do that. Just like you could if you felt like it strip down windows (take out the shell etc).
But does it ever ship like that? No.
Forcing microsoft to limit the feature set in Windows so other lamer OSs can catch up is just so stupid.
They can do what ever the hell they want with their OS damn it.
Code for MFC, ATL and the C runtimes is already available for free btw.
Mindless dribble. "Fighting those new Pocket PCs", uh Palm is the one with the monopoly.
And at least with Pocket PCs you have a lot of choice in what you can buy. Compaq has a very small Pocket PC that's the same size as the Palm V. Most other Pocket PCs are only slightly larger, and are comparable to the other Plam models size wize.
Features wise and readability, there's no comparison.
PHP's price tag is about right, and it seems to have more ummmph right when I need it.
Um, ASP is free too if you have a copy of Windows or NT.
And 3 grand is nothing if you can get the job done quicker.
With ASP you can use any ActiveX scripting language you want (VBScript, JScript, PerlScript). And also Interdev has a kick ass ASP debugger (server side and client side debugging).
Step-Step debugging of ASP rocks...
Takes sun like 5 years to even get something like that for java that's worth using.