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Preview Helix Code's "Evolution"
sigsegv writes: "The first preview tarball of Evolution is out on the Gnome FTP site. Pretty slick looking for those attached to gui e-mail clients. Personally, I still prefer mutt, but I know a few people very eager to see this. =8] "
The Bonobo component architecture is probably the exception to the above statement, but what you are looking at is a pretty advanced application making use of the most advanced components available for GNOME programmers, and that are stabilizing at an amazing pace.
Miguel
Umm, the webpage text is a bit alpha too :)
Gotta revise that when I finish this sawmill theme..
/tig
Scriptable?? WHY? why does anyone need a scripting language in an Email/contact system?? The ONLY use for a scripting language in an email client is to spread virii or trojan horses. I really hope they remove all scripting capability, and make it impossible to run an executable from inside the email. make them download it to their userspace and then open it. that way they have to use some effort.
I also hope that if they have to put this stupid function in they default it OFF in all installations.
Please evolution guys/gals... make it secure, learn from microsoft's mistakes.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You haven't looked at the Evolution screen shots, have you? From a UI point of view, it's a direct rip off of Outlook.
(Not that that's a bad thing - i'll be downloading Evolution tonight when I get home. I'm well impressed with Helix-Gnome (and the bulk updates that were made available yesterday)).
...j
Well, forgive (and correct) me if I'm wrong, but didn't Microsoft steal [some of] it's GUI [basics] from Apple? (It seems I've heard this many times before.) If so, then that is a more directed evolution that we shouldn't feel so bad about, because, hey, it's Apple and they're not Microsoft! (Sorry.. just had to do it)
Getting to my point, I was thinking that, assuming Microsoft stole/"borrowed" their GUI stuffs from Apple, and since it evolved into what it is now (i.e., the little folder icons, icons in general, etc., etc.) the GNOME folks are following in that evolutionary trend by designing something similar to what people are already used to - though I will admit that the point can be made that not everybody uses Outlook nor will everybody ever. I, for one, don't use Outlook - nor do I wish to. But I can see, on one hand, how this seems to be a logical sort of progression, but on the other hand, I can see how it isn't, because I figure that it's silly to presume that everybody likes/would like the look of Outlook and would want a nice open source alternative to Outlook, which is what this looks like. I guess it's just one of those executive decisions you've got to make when designing a product, and considering the fact that I don't know what variables they had to weigh, I don't know how much of an only choice they may have had... or maybe they just had an of softie for Microsoft on their staff...heh. (just kidding)
Insert mind here.
I hate to be a downer for you, but Open Source is not the answer to every question. Many open source programs are solutions to problems no one but the developer would care to see a solution for, but reading email is something everyone and their mother wants to do. My point: Microsoft can design better user interfaces, Open Source can implement them better.
Now I realise that is a lot to swallow, but I do have an argument to back that up. In essence, programmers in general, Open Source hackers in particular, make bad user interface designers (I know, I'm a good coder, and only a mediocre user interface designer). People who make good user interfaces are called user interface designers, people who write GUI code are user interface implementors. They can be the same people, but those people are doing two fundamentally different tasks. The one task (programming) involves studying data, processes, the user interface specification of the user interface designers and understanding, then creating an implementation that balances all of those aspects. The other task involves studying users, studying the task, and specifying a user interface. The point is, Open Source works primarily because programmers enjoy programming. Hackers may may have a day job where they get paid for programming, but hackers see it not as a means to an end (ie. a paycheck) but as something they like doing, and are lucky enough to get paid for. User interface designers are like engineers, they do it because it's their job, and no one else wants to do it.
How do good comercial graphical user interfaces get designed and implemented? An insightful software development manager hires or directs a user interface designer to create a user interface, and the programmers write the code. How does open source software get "designed?" People who just enjoy coding get down and write it, for the joy of the job. Notice that the Open Source model has no room for usability testing, or quality assurance. Both of these happen to a small degree, but usability needs to exist from the initial stages. The only way really user friendly software gets written is by creating a design, then writing code which continuously improves from a mere approximation of the design to something that fully captures it.
To wrap things up: I think it is a extremely reasonable position for the GNOME developers to take. Borowing GUI designs is legal, and lets the GNOME hackers do what they are good at. I think more software could stand to be written this way: a user interface is originally designed and implemented by some company. They make some money on ititial versions of the software. Later, when the software becomes commodotised (as Outlook surely has), Open Source will produce a stabler, faster, more portable, more extensible, cheaper (obviously), more interoperable (standards compliant), more customizable and generally better replacement. Open Source and Commercial software both have their strengths. Luckily, there is only a little overlap, and I see this as a model for the way they can work together.
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
Nothing beats keeping your Linux system up 24/7, and using procmail to filter mail into separate folders (mailing lists etc.) and using Mutt to read them, among keeping up with IRC, ICQ and AIM courtesy of GNU Screen. Not to mention, the ability to use 'at' to schedule downloads (using wget -q) and start a compile and leave it until your classes are done and coming back home to a freshly compiled GIMP, for instance. Calendar? Well, I've yet to find (need, rather; if I needed one I'd find it) a full-fledged calendar app, but perhaps the use of 'cal' and 'at' together somehow could do something along that accord? :>
the real at&t mix
And what, I would like to know, is the upcoming, never before seen, knock-your-socks-off feature in Pine that has you holding your breath? :-)
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Heh... No worries, just having too much fun...
I believe OLE2 includes specs for property interfaces and propertypages.
:).
I realise it's based on CORBA, but corba is only the building blocks of a larger technology brought to life by Microsoft. COM's strength is mostly in it's vivid and wide range of interfaces and defacto standards for things like compound documents, persistance etc.
If it's a separate process it will be dog slow to use or have you got an equivalent of an in-proc server in Bonobo? Just curious.
If they make it real similar you complain it's not different enough.
As long as you get the job done with a minimum of swearing, it has fulfilled its purpose. The real difference is in the backend, which, ironically, was not coded by monkeys. You will not have to worry about having your critical system files overwritten by viewing an attachment, or even viewing an email. You will not have to worry about the safety of your personal stored information, and, most importantly, you will not have to worry about Evolution being forced unwillingly on a whole userbase of people.
Here's my DeCSS mirror. Where's yours?
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
We will do everything withing a legal framework to provide users with the best software out there. Hopefully we will not have to reverse engineer a lot of Microsoft code.
The sooner we can infiltrate them, and obviate the need for proprietary protocols the better. I see a bright future for you as a GNOME/Evolution contributor.
Of course, fighthing bills like the UCITA is important for american citizens, to avoid getting more of the rights taken away.
Miguel.
Please, visit the helixcode and gnome gb webpages and RTFMs. I say this as both a user of GB, Gnumeric, et. al. and a developer on those projects, I *highly* suggest reading the manuals before making statements like these. And you might also want to read Miguel's many comments already in this thread.
http://www.gnome.org/gb/ is a good place to start
Dom
i've been a 100% linux user since 1995, so i can't say how it compares to agent. i can tell you that it has an extremely kick-ass feature set (>1 nntp server, multi-part binary decodes, multithreaded, blah blah blah) - and weighing in at around 520k, it's a great choice for those without the latest software-monoploy-induced inflated hardware spec.
and while i'm plugging pan, let me also plug my pan 0.8.0beta8 debian package for potato. the off icial debian package is still at version 0.7.6.
--
... which is why text-based applications like mutt won't go away for a long time. As long as there are people who share your sentiments (such as myself), then you'll always have choices like mutt, lynx, or even bash.
Don't feel threatened by the onslaught of GUI apps and their growing popularity. People are very interested and anxious for Nautilus, Evolution, Konqueror, KOffice, etc. The point is, in the end, we'll all have our choices. And that's a good thing.
Jason.
To a great extent, the possibility for that is there already. The backend stuff (Camel) is really well abstracted from the GUI portion, so if you wanted to write a text front end that would support all the cool database-ish functions, you could.
That said, I don't think Helix will be doing that anytime soon, since they aren't aiming to reduce the number of pine/mutt users- they are aiming to reduce the number of outlook users. As long as that remains the goal, then GUI and the associated bloat/features (pick whichever suits your POV) will continue to be the focus of Helix's frontend work.
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
Skript kiddies dont write things. They download a ZIP with the EXE.
/tig
I am glad you pointed this out.
Evolution is logically split into two parts (there is a process barrier between these parts).
The first are the User Interface Bonobo components. The other part is the non-graphical part that actually drives the data back end (The Wombat process, which is also in turn a Bonobo component).
The Wombat does not use or require a windowing system to be running, it just acts as a serializer and as the data provider for the actual user interface. The user interface can be a terminal application talking to the Wombat trough CORBA, a Web-based mailer/calendar/addressbook, a custom application you wrote that uses any of the above services in Perl (using the Perl/CORBA bindings from Owen Taylor for instance) or an Emacs based interface.
A lot of love has gone into making Evolution "right" in as many aspects as possible.
We welcome more comments on it, and constructive cricitism.
Miguel.
Don't mean to flame, but isn't there a step of usibility beyond the look and feel of MS Outlook?
There's also other projects, like Magellan, which also looks a lot like Outlook, and is for KDE. You know, if the KDE and Gnome camps could get together, there'd be a lot of less duplication of effort. I wish I could find a screen shot, but alas, I can't.
I really hope that programs like Evolution and Magellan allow some customization of those toolbar buttons, so that I can run then as icons only or something---the default look of Outlook and clones may be pretty, but it's not so functional.
--
Is it just me or has April come and gone with no April GNOME?? WTF.
Actually the only window manager I've seen that has something similar to the start button is fvwm95 (and it's a bit dated now I think). kwm might have one too; I'm not sure.
Also, I can't think of any applications I run that are terribly similar to Microsoft's UI, with the exception of Abiword, and I suppose you could say that they copied Wordperfect and not Microsoft. I don't have anything against Microsoft's UI, but there are better ones, such as NeXT and MacOS, which you mentioned.
I hope you will put a --no-basic switch in the right places.
Ciao
----
FB
Sure these shared libraries are a pain. Its better sometimes to compile the app with static linking, so its a big self-contained lump which always works. The TED rich-text editor does this.
We are back to the M$ situation where inferior software is shoved down our throats thanks to all the arseholes at slashdot and the like discriminating against KDE.
And don't tell me that open source will guarantee that the better product wins because it won't. Hardly any end user looks at the app's functionality and bug reports. They just download (or buy in case of commercial software) whatever everyone else uses. So in case of linux (if it ever makes any serious impact on the desktop) it will be RedHat and GNOME. And slashdot editors' attitude makes the situation even worse
On the positive note KDE2.0 beta is out. visit mosfet.org to read about it because you won't read about it on slashdot. Way to go KDE!
Thank you for your time.
Here's my DeCSS mirror. Where's yours?
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
Remember, Gimp was inspired by PhotoShop, and we all love the Gimp.
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
And, as an end user of Helix Gnome, I can tell you that it is _very_ stable.
Had a problem with a particular release of sawmill once, but reinstalled the previous version and was fine. I've never encountered any other problems, and Helix Gnome is all I use (at home, that is. Work is an NT shop).
miguel: 'twould be nice if the updater didn't automatically remove the rpms once they were installed. I would like the option of storing them somewhere for safe keeping once the update's done.
...j
Neat :)
It sounds very good, and thank you for all the feedback... scrolling through some of the more rescent posts, I see that you have answered a lot of questions. It is nice to see someone doing that. Thank you.
-----
Vikhozhu odin ya na darogu;
Skvoz' tuman kremnisti put' blectit;
Noch' tikha. Pystinya vnemlet bogu,
Rhapsody in Numbers
Surely all Calendars (for example) look the same/provide the same functionality. So if you don't want it to look like Outlook, just rewrite the shell, using the nice, current Calendar (etc.) components.
Maybe, it could be written using libglade, then you wouldn't even have to recompile to change how it looks.
Or write your own calendar with the same programming interface as the current calendar component. You can rewrite bits without rewriting it all...
whether you should, well, thats another matter...
Lajorn
/* NO COMMENT */
Generations of Unix geeks have been thrilled with pine, elm, and mutt.
True. I'm one of them. (mutt)
Generations of Unix geeks have been thrilled with pine, elm, and mutt.
So?
My boss wants Free Agent. He loves Free Agent. He worships Free Agent. He won't read news with any *nix newsreader that isn't an exact
Free Agent clone. He boots into Windows just to read news. If I clone Free Agent, I have just done a great service to the free software
community: one less instance of Windows being loaded.
So?
Let's ask ourselves something here - what is linux about, anyway? What is free sofwtare about? Because a lot of people think that the sole reason linux exists is to steal market share from microsoft and to take over the world. If that happens, I'm fine with it, but that is not the goal of linux as I see it. (And this is an opinion, yes) The reason I use linux is not to see microsoft topple, or to see my manager using the same OS as me, I use linux because it works for me. I don't really care if company X is moving to linux or if GNOME is easy enough for your grandmother.
In that framework, sometimes writing applications that mimic microsoft applications doesn't make any sense. If I wanted to use a program with that type of look and feel and approach to things, I wouldn't be using linux. Maybe Miguel does like that type of environment. I don't know.
If you go to the evolution page and helixcode, you'll find out that there is even an effort going on to write a replacement for visual basic for GNOME. Why?????? And this coming RIGHT after the love bug problem. Visual basic is one of the reasons why microsoft products suck, and people want the same thing on linux? It doesn't make any sense. Well, it does if stealing marketshare from microsoft is your only purpose, but otherwise it doesn't.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
This looks outstanding. Does anyone know if it is compatible with the enterprise calendaring that outlook uses? On the web page it only says "iCalendar" and other existing calendering standards... It would be great to use this at work and not have to use outlook!
The reason you need to be able to execute VB code in Excel spreadsheets is that very large sets of code have been written for various sheets in the Excel world. Neither you nor I probably care.
But people doing heavy-weight work with Excel do, and that is stopping them from migrating to a free software platform. Jody, one of the main Gnumeric hackers and Michael Meeks can tell you more about this.
That being said, the GNOME Basic implementation is a sandboxed version of Visual Basic (just like Java) unlike the Microsoft version.
Btw, TeX is a turing-complete language, and people are known to write fairly extensive TeX scripts (and yes, those appear on day to day research papers written in TeX).
TeX while processing your files can request user input to fill in values.
The features being copied are not being copied because we think it is "exciting" to copy the feature, or because we want to be check-to-check feature complete. They are required due to large packages that depend on that. Ask any serious Excel user.
Maybe its because "First you make it work, then you make it work well, and finally you make it work fast". Its just seems easier to have something to copy. If you then decide different its a false economy, though. Better to have planned...
But, I don't think that a Linux version HAS TO LOOK like the M$ version.
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
OK - I've been waiting quite a while for a usable version of Evolution. Why? Because in order to cut over to Linux as my full time OS, I need to replace Outlook. Now you can all go on about how you love your Mutts and your Pines ... cool. If you get your work done that way, good for you.
Personally, I've never seen anything better than Outlook for managing all my contacts, schedule and mail in one place. And Evolution looks like the thing I've been waiting for - a free version.
Hey, I object to Microsoft's existence as much as the next geek, but I do think they've got some of the best UI people. Fortunately, the GNOME folk aren't short on clues in this regard either.
So yeah - sue me. I like Outlook. I'm judging just on how well I can work with the software, not who distributes it. Pine has its place in the world, sure - but it's not on my PC.
OK - I'm rambling a bit. But suffice it to say I think Outlook is a pretty neat package, and Evolution is going to allow me to switch to Linux as my full-time OS. Win98 can go back to being the games platform it deserves to be. Flame me - I don't care. I just like Outlook, and I know I'm not alone.
Wasting your time since 1997.
It is suposed to be a nice GUI Email program with several other features (ala Outlook), but the preview clearly indicates that the email part is not working, only little parts.
That's what I find so amusing about Evolution. If you're making an email killerapp, first make sure that the email part works, then add other functionality.
Guess I'll wait until version 1.0 comes out and maybe by then I could actually read email with this program
Seeya!
Signatures are supposed to be funny?
okay, the one thing that so many people at work really like about outlook is that you can see other people's calendars while setting up meetings. outlook does this by accessing the free/busy database on the exchange servers (asaik, that is). i'm willing to bet that this interface is closed, but, i have to ask, are there plans for evolution to be able to access the free/busy lists on an exchange server? is this maybe what libole is for?
Excellent points. Another good reason: Why make Evolution so different that it will be hard for people to migrate from Outlook? I might enjoy learning new software, but I've noticed most of the people I meet day-to-day aren't as thrilled with the prospect.
Also, if I understand correctly from what I've read about it so far, it's divided into a front-end and a back-end. This will allow new front-ends to be built relatively easy. I'd like to point out that this type of design fosters innovation as opposed to stifling innovation. Really, to decide it's not innovative (I can barely stand to type the word anymore) based on a screenshot is unfair. Kind of like critiquing a book based on it's cover.
Then again, perhaps he was just being sarcastic.
numb
Is this a stated design goal?
...but I am getting really sick of this move to more and more graphical interfaces for everything. There are times when pretty pictures are nice, they make things more intuative, i.e. having Mozilla or Netscape around is often easier than using lynx.
Mutt has always worked rather well for me. It handles pgp well, and works nicely with my school's new LDAP database. How does Evolution handle this? What do we gain from the interface?
To me, it just adds a level of abstraction to a realativly simply procedure and makes it seem less solid and real.
Perhaps I should not complain so much. This is the kind of thing that might make my grandmother go out and get a Linux box instead of Windoze, but I will still continue to use mutt.
-----
Vikhozhu odin ya na darogu;
Skvoz' tuman kremnisti put' blectit;
Noch' tikha. Pystinya vnemlet bogu,
Rhapsody in Numbers
Well, we take security seriously in the GNOME project. Our implementation of Visual Basic for GNOME (it is required for perfect Office compatibility) actually runs in a Sandboxed environment, just like Java does.
The equivalent of the "ILOVEYOU" virus would generate a security exception in any application using GB in the future (no application currently uses GB, as it is still a project under development).
Miguel.
but aren't you supposed to rub the genie's bottle? does he give you an extra wish if you rub him, or are you just into that sort of thing? ;-)
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
boxy but good is working on a nice X11 email app (TickMail), but it's a commercial app (not free). Another hat in a suddenly crowded ring.
Work is for people who lack the imagination to play.
oops...
IAAL,BIANLY
Evolution will: crash, lose your mail, leave stray processes running, consume 100% CPU, race, lock, send HTML mail to random mailing lists, and embarass you in front of your friends and co-workers.
Wow. I'm in awe. 100% compatibility with Outlook, and it's only at version 0.0!!!!
James
I pretty much use gnome just for the panels. It is just too easy to custimize. I can handle text config files, but why would you mess with them if you didn't have to?
(appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
All of the stuff that helixcode guys have put out look great, but is anyone planning on making .deb packages of any of these? I don't want to have to use alien to convert these (I tried and it didn't work).
>My question is this: what will happen to Linux when it is done playing catch-up?
I'm not in the prognostication business. I would assume we would work on things like usability, improving performance, whatever. We'll do whatever our customers and our community needs.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
You just listed a bunch of software that no one uses. Is fvwm really the only the window manager with something like the start button then?
Someone please explain to me what is insightful about slamming a piece of software that volenteers are toiling away to give to you?
- Josh "Yoshi" Steiner
---
Xiphoid Process Records - http://xiphoidprocess.com
San Francisco based electronic music.
got drum'n'bass?
http://mp3.com/vitriolix
OLE2 did not include those. ActiveX later added those, but our models are significantly different at that stage, that it did not make sense to use the OLE2 interfaces.
For example, Bonobo embeddings are model/view based, while Microsoft ones are based on the IDraw and IDraw2 interfaces. The property pages are very limited and useful only for their setup.
Our property pages, toolbar exchange (embedded controls) all use our Bonobo::Control interface. The "core" model took a lot from Microsoft, but many things did not make sense at higher levels.
Bonobo is definetly designed to let hook up new interfaces (for instance, Evolution defines various new Bonobo interfaces, just like Gnumeric defines a fairly large set of Bonobo interfaces that are spreadsheet-specific).
Miguel.
Moderate this higher! Hack into slashdot and implement a Score of 6!!
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
It's just convergent evolution. Think of it like a squid's eye -- it got the same functionality that mammals have, but it used a different codebase and so was able to avoid some major design problems (like not having to run the nerves through a hole in the back of the eye, thereby producing a blind spot). You just have to overlook the fact that cephalopods developed before mammals did, but then most of MS's work has been after-the-fact and yet still wrong.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
However, the business user's needs go beyond just 'lots of email.' If it were all about email, pine plus procmail would be groovy.
Uh, freedom from all security holes and buffer overflows? :-)
Babar
Maybe we could add the features that have given Outlook the nickname "The M$ Virus Distribution System".
Sorry, had to be done... Also, through guile and just severe bullheadedness, I have proven to my company, that we might as well get rid of the exchange server, because the revolution has arrived, and the people with technologically based jobs (oops, this is a technology company) will not be using anything as dangerous as Outlook for email. Too tell the truth, I won't allow the companies source-code repositories to reside on "Windows" based machines, or even Unix based machines that have partitions that can be directly mountable by Windows based workstations. It may seem extreme, but I do fear things like someone making the mistake of opening something like the "I Love You" trojan, and wiping something important out. Yes, we keep backups, but I can't afford any unscheduled downtime at this juncture in my companies growth.
I understand that there are not many people in companies with the type of power required to make these types of unorthodox decisions, but our numbers are increasing. As we prove that our ideas are compatible in a business environment, our numbers grow. So, there are those of us looking for replacements for tools that have the dangerous holes provided by applications like Outlook. Sure, go for the functionality that makes sense. Make the software compatible, if necessary, and safe. But, medium and large companies will use a software package that proves itself superior to the business norm, if it becomes available.
One thing I've heard about Evolution is that the eventual goal is a 'groupware' application like Lotus Notes or (theoretically) Outlook.
One thing that people like about Notes is that it's easy to build workflow routing and approval applications. One of the main points of these types of apps is that your address book gets scanned and mail gets sent programmatically.
(Notes has a security infrastructure in place that allows a administrator to prevent the use of this feature by unauthorized users. However, most shops are configured loosely enough to allow a internal version of ILOVEYOU to happen.)
So, the Outlook feature was there for a good reason, although the implementation was totally retarded in that there was no security sandboxing at all. With Evolution, I hope you've considered balancing the valid need to do these sorts of things (e.g. routing apps) with the invalid needs (viruses). I'd be real curious to hear your thoughts on how this would be implemented, because nobody, including Lotus, has really gotten it right.
BTW, the programming model of Outlook is completely halfwitted, IMO, and not widely used. I'd hate to think that you'd put a lot of effort into cloning it.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
That's fine, I've been continually impressed with the progress that GNOME and the other desktop environment and user interface projects have been making under Linux and UNIX in general.
:)
My rant was targeted towards the frequently changing libraries that seem indicative of these projects; GTK is just a convenient example. (other people could rant about Qt and how hard it was to get Troll to fix bugs, but that's another flamewar for another day...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I'm waiting for GUI Mutt.. A Mutt that can show html mail and inline graphics. That would just rool. I dont even need a menubar and all that. Hot keys are fine.
The above is not worth reading.
Gee, it looks earily familiar... Could it be... Microsoft Outlook for UNIX? The linux community needs to start developing some real software, not just mimicing what Microsoft has already done. For a community that continues to berate Microsoft, I find it extremely funny how all the software they use looks very familiar...
A few examples:
Grow some nuts and actually innovate.
Wow... I actually had no idea that there was an implementation of Visual Basic for GNOME in development. A sandboxed environment is how Microsoft should have implemented VBA in the first place - it's great to see this being done in GNOME.
;-) You guys have done great so far. Keep up the good work.
And, I really wasn't taking a cheap shot at the GNOME security model.
43rd Law of Computing: Anything that can go wr
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Who says Microsoft cannot Innovate. This was actually a very innovative DDOS attack. All it took was one email to /. that mentioned the DMCA, Copyright violation, Kerberos and Windows. Even more insidiously this email was made to look like it was protecting a trade secret in a manner that would sabotage attempts to embrace extend and extinguish Kerberos, but that would be silly, such a thing would fly in the face of antitrust law.
This email was the direct cause of /. being wired,linuxtoday'd, cnet'd, etc...
The instigators of this vile DDOS attack should be hunted down and prosecuted.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
For a group of people that hates MicroSoft so much, we sure steal their GUIs a lot.
Good idea. I have requested the Helix GNOME team to add this feature.
If you want features added to GNOME or changes made to the Helix GNOME distribution system, please use the "bug-buddy" program to submit a request (or a bug report).
Bug buddy is available from the GNOME foot menu, or from the desktop "Bug Report Tool" icon on the desktop.
This helps us keep track of existing problems in GNOME, and provide feedback to the users on what the status for the problem report is.
Miguel.
Does this make any sense? I mean, I don't have anything against calendars and contact managers, but why are they being integrated with an email program? That's like putting a spreadsheet in a newsreader and an image processor in a web browser.
And what really scares me is that I don't see other people commenting on it. It's like I've totally missed something that is obvious to everyone else. Am I stupid?
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
anyone else notice the email showing in the preview screenshot of the email attachment? just curious... kinda funny, because linux is immune to that junk.
Yep. It reminds me of the flamewars that pop up among the fans of any band or artist. If the band releases an album that is a departure from their older material, something new and fresh, the oldtimer fans will complain that it doesn't sound like the old stuff. If the band releases very similar music over and over, people will complain that they haven't done anything new...
Say hello to zMac.
I've seen some discussion here about open vs proprietary standards and protocols and whether having an app that talks microsoft's language will help linux become more widespread in terms of desktop usage, and I thought I'd throw in my .02.
:)
I've also noticed that there seems to be a lot of concern based on the recent legislation making reverse engineering more difficult and such, and it seems to me that the windows world should be infiltrated with open source projects just as much as the linux world!
I think we need a development environment and a set of class libraries which work as translators to the various APIs available. Think about it: We've got win32, mac, gtk, and qt at least. How about the be kit in the mix as well, just for fairness sake. It doesn't seem logical to me that any project can expect a signifigant success by limiting itself to just running on GTK for example... we should have some libraries which work with say, XML files to translate "I want to play a 44khz sample" to esound, ksound, win32, etc. Quoth the wise: "There is more than one way to do things," and I think the real strength lies in tying the "more than one way" into "one way to do more than one way"
I also think the *nices (or the posixes) need to get together and figure out where vital system configuration stuff is going to live, how it's going to look, and such (perhaps reevaluate the standards already in place to which multiple vendors are applying themselves differently), so that as I saw in the Helix Gnome installer screenshot "RedHat 6.1 or newer" goes away and becomes "complies to standard x.x" or we'll end up with so much fragmentation in the free world that we'll be stumbling around with a bucket on our head and other more organized efforts will just race past us with their fancy goggles.
Anyway, what this is all pointing to, is that if we're able to roll out Evolution for free to the entire computing world, then we've just beat microsoft at the embrace-and-extend game, since we're embracing all the platforms, and we're extending them with our way of doing things, which should at least mean open source, if not free (personally I'm more of a free for noncom kinda guy myself, but I don't really care)
After all, millions are running Windows and Mac, and millions actually like it too, and to ignore them simply because they paid for their operating system is to ignore the value in value added user experience, which is what I feel all the commercial desktop os's are striving to provide. Want to compile your os from scratch and write a really cool app for it? Why make me suffer because I let someone else compile my OS for me?
Anyway, I'm done ranting. It's probably all off-topic anyway
keeping the world safe for prematurely grumpy old men for oh, about 7 years now
Alex Bischoff
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Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
While I have no problem with open-source projects that mimic/steal the interface from some Win app... I wish there was a *little* more effort to innovate in the UI area.
For example: The Outlook "Contacts" screen. This is probably the *worst* implementation of an address book I've ever seen. It's impossible! Even Outlook Express does it better. Admittedly, I can't think of a single mail app that *has* done this well... I kinda like hoe Postmaster (?) on Be handles things, but it isn't a useful method for Linux...
Back on topic -> Don't follow blindly! Use what's best to get people to switch, to keep it simple... But look for places that you can improvise and add functionality!
And make sure your client supports IMAP =)
I admit that Microsoft has done some very nice programs, and they have developed some very nice technologies.
Not all are perfect, but many are good, and worth looking into, and learning from. Just like you should learn from any other product from any other company and read research papers from any company that devotes a lot of resources to research (www.research.microsoft.com has some genuinely interesting papers, fwiw)
Miguel.
well, i got all the packages and installed them. however, when ./configuring evolution it didn't recognize any of the libs, and thus it won't go any further (compiling fails too if i comment out the offending configure lines)
`gnome-config bonobo` says it's not installed, yet i make install'd it, restarted gnome, played with ldconfig, and a million other things. pretty strange really.. similar things happened with the other libs i had to install (gtkhtml). eh, i wonder what i'm doing wrong... it's a fresh install of red hat 6.2.
i guess i'll play with it later.
At home, I use pine for my personal mail. It's good for straight-forward text-messages-and-tahnk-you-very-much sort of stuff. However, my work involves lots and lots of meetings and airplane trips and projects and to-do lists and hastily-scribbled notes and organization of ideas and collaboration. I travel constantly, and need a system that helps me keep on top of things. Outlook is excellent at this.
If you are just a programmer, (or studying to be one), then Outlook is both overkill and generally a miss. Your to-do list is probably best kept on a piece of paper next to your machine, and there is no reason to integrate messaging with other aspects of your workflow. However, those of us with ties to the rest of the business world get a lot of benefit from the versatility of the Outlook client. I hate to say this, but your needs are so different from a typical business-users needs, that I don't think you could grok them.
Note that the only other MS desktop client program I really care for is Excel. I prefer Abiword to Word a hundred-fold.
In any case, I think that the Outlook client is an excellent bar to aim for.
Worldpilot is already out and mature.
What is worldpilot?
Worldpilot is a web server application that
provides you with a web based organizer
and messenger. Among others it provides
you with the following features:
IMAP based web mail client
Contact and Address book
Notes
ToDo's
Calendar with support for repeating events
Workgroup sharing with broadcasting and
subscriptions
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
What I would *love* is a text based, no frills, MAPI/POP/NOTES/SMTP mail client. I hate Outlook and LotusNotes, but those are the servers at work. Pretty much any alternative is welcome, I hope Evolution lives up to my high expectations. I don't suppose anyone knows of a mail client with those features I could use?
Those screenshots look great.
How does one go about suing an AC for defamation of karakter.
I hope it does not take the rest of the mellonium
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Anyone know if these apps have any plans to hook up with a PalmPilot to sync contacts and schedule? That would kick ass. If not, I may have to dust off the C/C++ skills and take a crack at it.
I think one strong security aspect is the UNIX access-control itself; i.e., it's pretty hard to bork your system running arbitrary code as non-root. It would still be possible to nuke your own stuff, though. As with most open-source projects, I'm sure there will be many, many config options to choose from. (i.e. don't execute executable stuff.)
First let me say that Evolution is doing some great work. For all you people who compare it to Outlook....yes it is Outlook for Windows...but it's software like this that will attract "regular people" to Linux. We geeks will just sit back and use our Console Apps smurking every once in a while as another newbie enters our arena...even though they were attracted because they saw the screenshot of their Windows desktop that is actually stable. Who cares who uses Linux and why...as long as they are using it!
Keep it real...
Eddy.WriteLinux.Com
April GNOME is not out, because we have decided to give more testing, polishing, and reviewing before the 1.2 release (April).
If you get Helix GNOME you will get a very good approximation of what GNOME 1.2 will look like.
Jacob (GNOME 1.2 release coordinator) today released GNOME 1.1.90 to the world. Go test it, and report any problems you find there.
Miguel.
All the components need to know that the source is insecure (just like Gnumeric assumes that any code in a spreadsheet is insecure, just like Outlook should have assumed that a mail called "ILOVEYOU" was also an insecure source, just like Excel and Word should treat their data insecurely as well).
Anyways, the point is that each component should assme that the data they are loading might be hostile data.
And a full SVG implementation could also be hostile (as they can use Javascript), so that also should throw an exception.
Miguel.
When good IMAP support makes it into a stable release, I'll be all over mutt. SSL/IMAP support would be a bonus, though I can deal with ssh tunneling if I have to. Point is, IMAP is a killer feature, and if using it means I have to tolerate a GUI, then that's what I'll do.
Did you see Miguel's reason for writing Gnumeric? It wasn't that he wanted a spreadsheet. He wanted GNOME to have a spreadsheet.
As far as I can tell, GNOME's primary goal isn't necessarily to create a good system. It's primary goal is to infiltrate. And if it happens to be usable too, well, that's just icing on the cake. If not, no big loss.
I can't say it really excites me, but I acknowledge that there's a place for this sort of thing in the overal strategic scheme.
Also, saying that they're not really trying to create a good system sortof comes off as a flame or something, and that's not what I mean at all. In fact, it's quite clear by now that they have found the easiest way to build these infiltration apps is to create some very powerful building blocks. That stuff might come in handly later...
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
My feelings for KDE have nothing to do with differences in the style of "freedom" espoused by the authors of the varous components. Or their personalities, or nationalities, or whatever.
I've got nothing specific against KDE, not as such. I just don't like QT.
And it's not that i don't like QT in the sense that trolltech did something that offended me, and I'm as ignorant of the programming interface as your grandmother.
I dislike QT because it looks and feels awkward to me. It quite literally looks and feels to annoy me exactly the way OS/2 Presentation Manager does when using buggy video drivers at a very high resolution:
The fonts always look a few points too big, the kerning always a few points off kilter, the space between menu items too wide, etc. It just looks and feels awkward and I don't like it.
That being said, I don't use gnome either. I use icewm, but I *like* the look and feel of applications written with Gtk+
Now, if i could just take the time to figure out how to make gnome use small icons on the panel instead of those big clunky 64x64 things, I might give gnome another shot. Maybe.
Why is it so hard to understand that NeXTStep only looked so good because those icons were insignificant on a display that large? Some of us use notebooks with 800x600 10.4" displays . .
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
It's not just KDE that slavishly copies MS (as GNOME zealots would lead you to believe). In fact, didn't Miguel himself say that he copied Excel exactly when he worked on Gnumeric? Don't remember the link, probably on /. a while ago.
Evolution looks a damn lot like Outlook as well.
--
"And is the Tao in the DOS for a personal computer?"
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
I can't help but think that if the libraries on which these new, fancy desktops were built were any good you wouldn't have to change them every time you write a new application.
Do it yourself for chrissakes! Stop whining about 'innovation' (a word Microsoft invented a year and a half ago). Have you actually peeked into the Helix/Gnome project??
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
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-- Slashdot sucks.
Can you say DUF backwards?
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Where do every idea on this planet originate?
From someone else of course..
None of us live in a sandbox, no matter how much you try to believe so.
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
And they have an account on sourceforge, although there main usefull thing there is the mailing-list archive. Oh and cvs is there, but I didn't test it.
Wow, that looks really cool, thanks. You're right that there's a lot of "GNOME is cool" stuff on Slashdot--it must be us loyal RedHat users driving it, I guess. :)
:)
I could care less about GNOME *or* KDE, but I do like to hear about what progress they've made, and try them occasionally.
If I ever hack on this stuff, you can bet I'll be working towards the "minimal" configurations, until all the apps look a whole lot like fvwm, elm, pico, etc., etc., and the only thing that themes really change are the fonts, borders, and titlebars.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Does anyone know of an apt-gettable source for evolution/helix-gnome?
Miguel, what's the plan for handling security? Some data formats are safe, such as text/plain or SVG, since they don't have enough power to do anything dangerous. Other formats, such as PostScript, aren't necessarily safe to interpret. How is this handled? Do rendering components for SVG, PS, etc. have an interface where the mailer can find out how dangerous they are, or is there some other scheme?
If these guys really had class, the screen shot would have shown a couple of ILOVEYOU messages in the inbox.
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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Um actually the windows gdi(which is not a gui) is not in kernel space, but "gui" itself is in userspace.
If the were releasing Evolution 1.0, it would be unacceptable to depend on unreleased libraries. However, this is version 0.0 - developer preview. If you can't manage to get these libraries, then you shouldn't download it (I'm not going to download it). By the time Evolution is nead 1.0, these libraries will have become more stable. I see no problem in that. They should depend on the features GTK will have when they release 1.0, not the features GTK has now.
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
I'd say my favorite quote from the page is this:
This is the reason I'm ultimately not a big fan of the current style of GTK app development. This is not meant as a rant against GTK, because I will unilaterally hate any recent app that does version checking against a new version of a library; GTK is just a convenient example, because I've had that happen a lot.
I realize everyone wants to use the latest features, and whatnot, but couldn't they start with a consistent API to begin with? Will this eventually get hashed out, or will every GTK app I ever try to install constantly bug me for a new version of the toolkit?
I'm not a big fan of Motif, but if people could implement that API on top of GTK, lots of programs would compile, look consistent, and not bug me for the latest version of blah. This could be done with lesstif, BTW, and it might have helped the Mozilla people. However, now that they've hashed out their own, platform-independent libraries with all the features needed for a web browser, we could just use those instead, and not change the API...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Don't know... It didn't work for me on the first try about 20 min ago but now it is working fine. Must be the server change over...
Sorry for my angry post -- I just had a bad day.
I won't do a search, I'll take your word for that... :)
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Folks, please be careful when running this. This isn't even alpha, really- the version number is 0.0. In announcing this, Miguel sent the following to the evolution-devel list:
"As you explore Evolution, please understand that most of our work has been focused on the backend engine which drives the entire system and not on the user interface. We are just cresting the hill now, though, and will be pouring most of our love and attention into the UI from here out. But at least you know that you're not using demoware.
So, time for the nerdy disclaimer. Evolution will: crash, lose your mail, leave stray processes running, consume 100% CPU, race, lock, send HTML mail to random mailing lists, and embarass you in
front of your friends and co-workers. Use at your own risk."
So... don't slam it for lack of functionality or anything like that yet. Wait until the developers think it is at least worthy of a version number...
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
From the bottom of their front page: Status of Evolution Currently, the Calendar is the most complete of the components, since it is based on an already-existing product. Several important Contact Manager widgets have been written. Several components of the Mailer have been written, but the Mailer as a whole has not been put together yet. So it is just a preview...can't wait to see the full version! Nice work.
> Grow some nuts and actually innovate.
/.'ers, who, naturally, are looking for applications that look similar to what they are used to from the MS world. The mail agent I use, Gnus, has a single optional feature inspired from MS, namely graphical presentation of smileys. Apart from that, it is probably the most innovative mail agent in existence. It is certainly the most featureful. However, since it doesn't look anything like an MS application, it isn't what the new generation of Linux users are looking for. They will look for something like the MS Windows application they used before, and then complain about the lack of innivation.
Actually, there continue to be lots of innovation in the free software community. It just gets less attention from the newly converted Linux users and
just for yucks they shouda had a screen shot showing 'i love you' in the del bin heh heh
spam, spam, spam, spam, e-mail, news and spam.
I ran it. Tried to find out how to hook to the Exchange server where I work. No option to do that, only POP3 and SMTP mail. Please tell me how to set it up to connect to an exchange server!
The program looks nice, runs under FreeBSD Linux emulation (I was impressed) after you brandelf the binary. I just wanted it so I could dump Outlook for ever and ever and ever, and get on with my work. But there was no Exchange server functionality in the software.
Sob. I thought I had found a holy grail.
sit down one day and analyze just how much time, productive time, you waste using windows in general and outlook in particular; rebooting several times a day, waiting eons for applications to start, wrestling with the clunky and cumbersome environment, trying to figure out why yesterday it worked the way you wanted and today it's doing strange things (ah, its because today is mother's day and outlook wants to take over and think for you). You'll see you probably would waste less time by using something other than outlook.
need to get organized? get a Palm, write a conduit for workgroup sync and do yourself a favor by putting outlook in the recycle bin.
.. which is fine, but does it behave like OutLook and default to posting in HTML? :>
Although I'm not in favor of all this Gnome hype, I thought I'd gather up some Karma by mentioning TradeClient, which is YAOC (yet another Outlook clone). Looks like it's already usable (no imap support). It's been recently GPLed.
--
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
In Gnome's site there's a document (book) called "Gnome & Corba". It's really good.
After looking at that site...so professional, so similar to Outlook.
I just can't wait....
for the next release of PINE!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
How about reporting on this to the developers instead of whining about it here? Not to put you down or anything, but there are so many complaining, whining and doing _nothing_ about it. Do you really expect anybody to do anything about _your_ problems if you don't come with constructive ideas? This is Open Source, you can rewrite the code/interface or come up with usable suggestions yourself. Even Microsoft have done research among their customers to get their UI done "right" (questionable in various areas).
How about drawing some simple sketches and mailing them to the developers? I'm sure they'll be happy for such input, for they surely can't "innovate" every application out there. They're making the tools highly open and modular (bonobo), just don't excpect one company/one group of people to deliver the best all-round solution.
This whole mess is also about freedom, in a few years there'll probably be several interfaces to the various Gnome-apps, maybe even some text-based ones? Then the whiners will whine about something else... *sigh*
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
I like the idea of making a "complete" email-client that can do something more than just handle text, but I really want those more being like a "front-end" to existing console clients like pine.
Wouldn't be great if you had a mega functional gui-frontend to pine or mutt ?
That's why I like balsa so much. It's got some rough edges but it mimics my pine rather neatly. I even can sync my palm emails thru GnomeCard !!
I use balsa and pine together and i love it.
blaah !
That's not even worth a response....Oh damn!
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Here
:P
Instead of copying interfaces, we should be using resources and studies about what makes for good human/computer interaction. There are several excellent books on the subject, and the above website is a pretty good start, too (look at the hall of fame part).
Just my two cents. On the other hand, I have the luxery of creating applications for internal use that are all quite unique. I'd be hard pressed to say I wouldn't copy someone elses interface if they asked me to write an email client. However, I'd start by looking at how "my users" actually use email and what they want instead of assuming they want what MS says they want.
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Stupid sexy Flanders.
People! Haven't we just spent the last couple days making fun of M$ weenies who received hundreds of 'ILOVEYOU' emails? Did we really need, or want, embedded scripting in data files? What good will GB do to enhance Gnumeric or the rest of the GNOME office? Does it really justify the security risk of embedding logic in data files? I guess that's my main objection. I write most of my documents in plain text and / or TeX. A data file contains... data. That's it. It's not going to pop up any dialog boxes, query any databases, or do anything else that's completely unnecessary. It just contains my data, plus some minor formatting information (in the case of TeX / troff).
Of all the people I know who use Word (probably several hundred), not a single one has ever used VB macros in a document. And many of them have suffered through VB macro viruses. Can anyone think of anything that justifies the inclusion of a scripting language in Gnumeric data files? I know that the GB implementation will probably be more secure, but it seems like Helix want to copy VB 'feature' for feature, bug for bug.
After pulling nails to compile all packages in their correct locations, I've got it working and pulling my POP3 accounts in. Looks like a beautiful interface and very functional application. Obviously an Outlook knockoff, but who cares? One thing I love about the Gnome team is their willingess to embrace/copy/steal heterogenous ideas from different apps and OS's and combine them for something even better. Caveats to install: remember to read the README. RTFM. In particular, when installing the required packages it will be a lot easier for you if you are already running helix. If you are, you'll just need the gtk,bonobo,lib-unicode, and gnome-vfs packages. When doing your make on these, be sure to pass the config of: ./configure --prefix:/usr --installconfdir:/etc (it was close to that anyway) You can pull your own parameters out first with gnome-session, (ITS ALL IN THE README!!!) Anyway, this is VERY early in the apps lifetime- if you don't believe me, just read their disclaimer, it's kinda amusing. It will defineately be one hell of an app when its done though. It's crashed 4 or 5 times already- but it just dumped core, didn't actually bomb the whole app. core dump happened but app survived. I'm going to run it for day to day now and be brave. Submit some bug reports.
"You never truly understand a thing until you can explain it to your grandmother" -Albert Einstein
Why does helix need to emulate Microsoft so much? This seems to be the way of many of Linux window managers and the like. They all have their version of the "Start" button... what about maybe copying the MacOS. It is nice an sleek.... very efficient...
I find it odd that many linux users bash Microsoft (myself included) but we all use a GIU close to theirs... but at least our is in userspace...
Peace out.
-Yup
wow! i'm wrong! can i rub the genie again...
At risk of sounding like a jerk: this is about the third story on Evolution, without one story on Magellan. Possibly, this is because Evolution is a lot more hyped than magellan. But, possibly, it's because the Slashdot editors all seem to run Gnome.
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-- Slashdot sucks.
Where are now the comments of the GNOME users saying GNOME is a windows clone, as it was with KDE? Interesting to see that the rules for GNOME and KDE differ, GNOME gets the fame and KDE the flame...
I'm sure magellan will be just wonderful, but does it have to look so much like outlook?
--
--
"Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas"
Maybe I've been too lazy to do my research, but are there any guides that explain CORBA simply and straightforward? The concept behind it as I understand it is BEAUTIFUL, but as of yet I haven't found any guide that explains it with a hands-on or simplistic approach. If anybody reading this post knows of any online guides that would suit my purpose, please email me about them :-)
the real at&t mix
This looks very good dude!! That is something else than that stupid netscape mail!! Now, all we need is a good browser because Netscape...I don't know. Half of the pages I visit are inpossible to view or aren't viewed as they were supposed to be.
Everything I see is always geared towards the business side of PIM's, does anyone have anything for everyday life?
...
I'm looking forward to the day when I can have software which can help me organize my everyday life. Like separate my multiple accounts (I don't want just a "inbox"), a schedule which can incorporate thigns like my favorite T.V. shows even if they overlap, realise that someone's spouse could ALSO be in my contact list, be able to automate games of Quake under an "appointment", etc
I'm sure there are many things you could use in a "Daily Life PIM", but is anyone working on it?
Wiwi
"I trust in my abilities,
Wiwi
"I trust in my abilities,
but I want more then they offer"
You mean like this?
-
air and light and time and space
First, I want to say that I think Evolution is truly that, evolution. Sure the UI is almost exactly like Outlook. But that's fine, if users are accustomed to it, and obviously like it (How many did ILOVEYOU hit?) why shouldn't it be used. I'm not saying the Outlook UI should be the standard e-mail client UI, if it aint broke don't fix it.
:) There's a little bit of information on it here. And some Apple stuff PR stuff here.
As far as Bonobo goes, component architecture totally kicks ass. Most Mac users will probably remember OpenDoc. While Apple was developing this with IBM and `actually had many companies, including Adobe, going on it, OpenDoc didn't exactly hit mainstream
Evolution is going to make a sweet E-mail client, and I hope Bonobo can make development easier, and software better for everyone.
The reason I'm excited about Evolution is not that it's just another pretty GUI client that LOOKS like Outlook.
No, I don't care about the looks. What I do care about is that it can get mail through an exchange server and support scheduling through an exchange server as well, with really any GUI you care to put together.
Wherever I go, I try and use Linux clients at work. This would almost always work out OK, with one exception - I always have to dual-boot to get to my mail and schedule. I rather hate the Outlook scheduler, but I have no choice in using it - usually everyone else schedules meetings with it, and also a lot of places I've been at use it as a frontend to reserve conference rooms.
So, something like Evolution is really the final step in freeing MANY people to use Linux fulltime at work.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Does anyone know when Debian packages will be released for this?
The Helix Code web site seems to think that Debian (and Corel, Storm, ...) don't exist! Which is kind of a shame, because all of the stuff to distribute a suite of packages such as the ones on the website is all very nicely handled by Debian. After all, I can point to kde.tdyc.org (for example) to get a suite of Debian packages for KDE.
Andrew.
Can it spread ILOVEU?
;)
I consider this to be the real litmus test for any app claiming to approach MS Outlook/Outlook Express in functionality.
"Hey... don't be mean." --Buckaroo Banzai
It looks on the surface like it may be good for taking away those exchange users out there. The embedded app functionality is good -- most corporate types are addicted to double clicking icons of attachments in their email, and it will be nice to see that functionality under an OS I actually like.
To say nothing of how the world is ripe for a replacement for exchange solely on the basis of its inability to avoid spreading viruses like wildfire.
I feel like I'm missing out on this LUVBUG thing...I want to have someone send me a love note too!
btw...kde's Magellan looks to be very similar as well (for KDE2 tho)
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If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...