You didn't listen to what i said. Ever heard of a process space? The only thing i can think of is cacheing of DLLs so that office loads faster (off memory) - that is possible - but the DLLs cached by windows are standard windows libraries - libraries which ALL applications will benefit from. Windows doesn't go and secretly make a process space for office and load up some office specific DLLs whenever windows starts up - trust me. The smart star technology stuff isn't to do with preloading either (what the hell is it with these people talking about preload - and besides - nothing's stopping sun from doing the same with star - it's no special 'need windows code' trick - in fact it's a trick that doesn't exist anyway:P) - smart start is to do with relocating clusters in the order which DLLs and other files are loaded.
BTW, I don't have OSA etc etc loaded - MS Office loads in 2 seconds despite not having all these programs you keep insisting i have open open.
You're right, it's been a few months since i've run gnome seriously;). hey, it was buggy last time i looked:P. I still think KDE has more potential - it has a very nice easy to use library set (much like MFC) which will attract many programmers.
Um, but I was comparing it's speed with ms office. Even if you compare star office on a linux machine or windows machine with ms office on a windows machine - ms office wins out. it's faster and more responsive. it's generally not linux's fault - it's star office. which makes me angry about all the complaints of microsoft's sloooooow software. in my experience (take office and internet explorer as evidence) ms make really fast software - especially when you take into account features. but then they have those extra engineers sitting there optimising code (like prolly not loading up some uneeded modules with office - although office still seems responsive when doing things).
Firstly I don't have the office toolbar loaded (it really is a bit bloated)....secondly that wouldn't matter cause Word starts in a seperate process space from the toolbar.
You don't have to run KDE. You just need the QT libraries. Ofcourse, there maybe KDE specific features (like system tray icons and clipboard etc) which you don't get - stuff like that happens (and when it happens on windows for same reasons - people yell microsoft is trying to corner the market - DLL conflicts - fragmentation etc etc FUD FUD FUD).
It's kindda fragmented development...but i don't care - it's their time:P. Personally, I think KDE will succeed. They have better and more complete applications. Gnome is rather buggy - and I don't like GTK+ over QT.
Sun will want to supply the servers. Sun's primarily a hardware company - tho it's hard to tell now days. Microsoft is a software company - despite it's huge size - they've pretty much stuck with software (disregarding small devices like mice and keyboards). They design specs for devices like Palm-Sized-PC, Handheld PC etc, make the software and let the hardware companies take care of the rest. It's this kind of thing which has lowered the price of devices - not increased them like people think (look at the trend of PC hardware prices).
This isn't troll talk - it is slow compared to MS Office. On Linux it takes about a minute to load, on windows, around about the same. ewww. MS Office takes like 2 seconds (per app). The article did bring up an interesting point - who would you rather have as a dictator? Gates or McNealy? I'd rather have Gates...all the way. He's not 'evil', hi's company is aggressive when it comes to business (but what company wouldn't be).....Gates comes off to me as a nice guy - a geeky guy. McNealy comes off as a businessman with a disturbing anti-microsoft and a 'i want to be gates' complex (kindda like Ellison). My prediction? Sun will capture many businesses etc with their workstations eventually - then everyone will be complaining about the monster that is AOL/SUN/ORACLE. Would I rather have Sun or Microsoft lead the software industry? Microsoft all the way. Everything Sun does today is to undermine Microsoft - it's so obvious. Their campaign for '100% pure' java, their network computing push, their aquisition of StarOffice, their alliance with Netscape. Just check out scott mcnealy's website at sun.com, it's a page full of anti-microsoft garbage. you don't see anything like that on bill gates' site. he's professional about these things.
I thought apple was into selling high quality new stuff not matter the price (apple is hardly cheap comapred to PCs - even now). Not hashed, mostly PC hardware with a unique case *like that matters*.
But that wouldn't be fun would it? Plus i'd have to *move* from the computer to the light switch:). Having it computerised is good - i'm using SAPI (speech api) from Microsoft so i can have star trek like voice control over the lights. Security isn't much of a problem because I'm going thru a linux box which acts as an effective firewall.
Because the message attacks windows - which is good on slashdot. Even tho over 90% of PCs on the planet run Windows, and MOST servers run Windows - it's still cool to announce Windows crashes even though 1) MacOS crashes even more and noone complains 2) Windows catches a process crash != Windows crashes. 3) BSOD FUD is becoming tiresome. Core Dump is more fun.
What do you mean you couldn't write to files? Windows Scripting Host is based on COM - and unlike applescript is extendable. eg. VBScript and JScript are just two languages - other people like activestate have written activescripting plugins (like perlscript). Because WSH is based on com, all scripting languages are required to support creation of COM objects (which they all do - vb, java & perl script). You can do _ANYTHING_ in WSH, basic objects for manipulating the desktop, reading and writing files (duh, that's in the Scripting.* COM DLL)....anything else you need to do just write a COM object in VC++, VB, Perl etc to do it then call it from your windows script. for example, i've written a COM object to turn the lights in my room on and off - i just have two scripts i need to run if i quickly want to turn the lights on and off from the desktop.
Ever used Microsoft's virtual machine? fast as hell, especially with graphics. Hotspot - despite the hype - doesn't speed up sun's java over MSJVM. Seen how long it takes for java or javac to even start running? Jikes is pretty good, but jvc is faster.
I'm a java programmer, this is from experience. It's no fib that NT is the best java platform too.
Sorry, you're absolutely wrong. Benchmarks show Microsoft's is the fastest - and from experience, I find microsoft's to be several times faster than Hotspot. What do you mean by sun's hotspot to be way faster? ROFL, it sucks crap. I remember sun claiming it made java as fast or faster than C++. It's crap, no speed improvement graphics wise (where MSJVM still kicks ass) and marginal improvement (no more than two times) with processing - still slower than microsoft's vm. Care to show me those supposed benchmarks? MS more or less stopped developing their VM and J++ long time ago Funny, they just released a new build a week ago. Proof here
I'll look into it...but... If you're talking about J++ being proprietry, I disagree. It gives you the option of writing faster applications - and basically using Java as a language - rather than a platform (which i very often go for since i like java cause of the beutiful stylish language - not the lack of speed and cross platform ability - native compiler here i come). you can write 100% pure java apps in J++, and actually have the fastest compiler and debugger for java out there. I like the option of being able to access hundreds of my own COM objects, the Windows API and standard DLLs easily through java. then again, i consider java a nice language - not a religion.
Windows NT and COM are built 'from the ground up' just as much as Java ever was.
Microsoft seem to have more of an idea how to write compilers and virtual machines tho. J++'s compiler and MSJVM are both like 3 or 4 times faster than anything anyone else (including sun) has come up with. I guess that's why they won best VM, Compiler & Debugger at java one. I use J++ primaraly because it's fast. I can't stand working with a java based one for long because i don't have a PII-500 and cant be bothered waiting 5 minutes for the darn things to load.
Are you also going to boycott all Microsoft products because they are trying to fake a study on Linux usability?
So whenever microsoft does a study on competition (or maybe just linux?) it's automatically considered fake, and most likely a preemptive FUD attack? Wonderful.
It's one of the best java applications i've used, I think the guys who write it (like KDevel) have copied Visual Studio:). I hope netbeans doesn't get munted if sun buys them.
BTW, can they make a java development tool that doesn't take 70mb of ram and that's _fast_? Netbeans doesn't run on microsoft's virtual machine - which basically dooms it to very slow AWT graphics.
although this may seem funny to giggling linuxers, it's not very nice to the newbie who's probably not even a microsoft engineer, but someone hired to test out linux as a newbie.
In that case, you _CAN_ remove explorer, if you don't want to use explorer as your shell - replace the windows shell with netscape if you prefer windows to take 2 hours to load.
netscape could have easily written a windows explorer replacement if they wanted to (providing they found some programmers that could program).
As a windows user, I can safly say that providing it was only applications I use (mostly MS software like Visual Studio, Office etc) I could save etc using just the keyboard - and then shutdown using just the keyboard.
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You didn't listen to what i said. Ever heard of a process space? The only thing i can think of is cacheing of DLLs so that office loads faster (off memory) - that is possible - but the DLLs cached by windows are standard windows libraries - libraries which ALL applications will benefit from. Windows doesn't go and secretly make a process space for office and load up some office specific DLLs whenever windows starts up - trust me. :P) - smart start is to do with relocating clusters in the order which DLLs and other files are loaded.
The smart star technology stuff isn't to do with preloading either (what the hell is it with these people talking about preload - and besides - nothing's stopping sun from doing the same with star - it's no special 'need windows code' trick - in fact it's a trick that doesn't exist anyway
BTW, I don't have OSA etc etc loaded - MS Office loads in 2 seconds despite not having all these programs you keep insisting i have open open.
You're right, it's been a few months since i've run gnome seriously ;). :P.
hey, it was buggy last time i looked
I still think KDE has more potential - it has a very nice easy to use library set (much like MFC) which will attract many programmers.
Um, but I was comparing it's speed with ms office.
Even if you compare star office on a linux machine or windows machine with ms office on a windows machine - ms office wins out. it's faster and more responsive. it's generally not linux's fault - it's star office.
which makes me angry about all the complaints of microsoft's sloooooow software. in my experience (take office and internet explorer as evidence) ms make really fast software - especially when you take into account features. but then they have those extra engineers sitting there optimising code (like prolly not loading up some uneeded modules with office - although office still seems responsive when doing things).
was it ever proven the code was stolen - rather than just reengineered in the stac case?
just interested in knowing.
There are many Delphi and CBuilder developers out there (only a margin compared to visual studio ;)).
I really should have learnt Delphi. doh.
Um, NOT.
Firstly I don't have the office toolbar loaded (it really is a bit bloated)....secondly that wouldn't matter cause Word starts in a seperate process space from the toolbar.
You don't have to run KDE. You just need the QT libraries. Ofcourse, there maybe KDE specific features (like system tray icons and clipboard etc) which you don't get - stuff like that happens (and when it happens on windows for same reasons - people yell microsoft is trying to corner the market - DLL conflicts - fragmentation etc etc FUD FUD FUD).
:P.
It's kindda fragmented development...but i don't care - it's their time
Personally, I think KDE will succeed. They have better and more complete applications. Gnome is rather buggy - and I don't like GTK+ over QT.
Sun will want to supply the servers.
Sun's primarily a hardware company - tho it's hard to tell now days.
Microsoft is a software company - despite it's huge size - they've pretty much stuck with software (disregarding small devices like mice and keyboards). They design specs for devices like Palm-Sized-PC, Handheld PC etc, make the software and let the hardware companies take care of the rest. It's this kind of thing which has lowered the price of devices - not increased them like people think (look at the trend of PC hardware prices).
This isn't troll talk - it is slow compared to MS Office. On Linux it takes about a minute to load, on windows, around about the same. ewww. MS Office takes like 2 seconds (per app). ...all the way. He's not 'evil', hi's company is aggressive when it comes to business (but what company wouldn't be).....Gates comes off to me as a nice guy - a geeky guy. McNealy comes off as a businessman with a disturbing anti-microsoft and a 'i want to be gates' complex (kindda like Ellison).
The article did bring up an interesting point - who would you rather have as a dictator? Gates or McNealy?
I'd rather have Gates
My prediction? Sun will capture many businesses etc with their workstations eventually - then everyone will be complaining about the monster that is AOL/SUN/ORACLE.
Would I rather have Sun or Microsoft lead the software industry? Microsoft all the way.
Everything Sun does today is to undermine Microsoft - it's so obvious. Their campaign for '100% pure' java, their network computing push, their aquisition of StarOffice, their alliance with Netscape.
Just check out scott mcnealy's website at sun.com, it's a page full of anti-microsoft garbage. you don't see anything like that on bill gates' site. he's professional about these things.
I thought apple was into selling high quality new stuff not matter the price (apple is hardly cheap comapred to PCs - even now). Not hashed, mostly PC hardware with a unique case *like that matters*.
I'd rather have one of the new flatpanel tiny PCs coming from NEC and the likes.
Is it just me or is apple using PC hardware now?
That's only for one specific area for java. if you benchmark raw processing speed and graphics you'll see very different results.
But that wouldn't be fun would it? Plus i'd have to *move* from the computer to the light switch :).
Having it computerised is good - i'm using SAPI (speech api) from Microsoft so i can have star trek like voice control over the lights.
Security isn't much of a problem because I'm going thru a linux box which acts as an effective firewall.
"you're wrong" :P
Because the message attacks windows - which is good on slashdot. Even tho over 90% of PCs on the planet run Windows, and MOST servers run Windows - it's still cool to announce Windows crashes even though
1) MacOS crashes even more and noone complains
2) Windows catches a process crash != Windows crashes.
3) BSOD FUD is becoming tiresome. Core Dump is more fun.
What do you mean you couldn't write to files?
Windows Scripting Host is based on COM - and unlike applescript is extendable. eg. VBScript and JScript are just two languages - other people like activestate have written activescripting plugins (like perlscript).
Because WSH is based on com, all scripting languages are required to support creation of COM objects (which they all do - vb, java & perl script). You can do _ANYTHING_ in WSH, basic objects for manipulating the desktop, reading and writing files (duh, that's in the Scripting.* COM DLL)....anything else you need to do just write a COM object in VC++, VB, Perl etc to do it then call it from your windows script.
for example, i've written a COM object to turn the lights in my room on and off - i just have two scripts i need to run if i quickly want to turn the lights on and off from the desktop.
Ever used Microsoft's virtual machine?
fast as hell, especially with graphics. Hotspot - despite the hype - doesn't speed up sun's java over MSJVM.
Seen how long it takes for java or javac to even start running?
Jikes is pretty good, but jvc is faster.
I'm a java programmer, this is from experience.
It's no fib that NT is the best java platform too.
Sorry, you're absolutely wrong. Benchmarks show Microsoft's is the fastest - and from experience, I find microsoft's to be several times faster than Hotspot. What do you mean by sun's hotspot to be way faster? ROFL, it sucks crap. I remember sun claiming it made java as fast or faster than C++. It's crap, no speed improvement graphics wise (where MSJVM still kicks ass) and marginal improvement (no more than two times) with processing - still slower than microsoft's vm. Care to show me those supposed benchmarks? MS more or less stopped developing their VM and J++ long time ago Funny, they just released a new build a week ago. Proof here
I'll look into it...but...
If you're talking about J++ being proprietry, I disagree. It gives you the option of writing faster applications - and basically using Java as a language - rather than a platform (which i very often go for since i like java cause of the beutiful stylish language - not the lack of speed and cross platform ability - native compiler here i come).
you can write 100% pure java apps in J++, and actually have the fastest compiler and debugger for java out there.
I like the option of being able to access hundreds of my own COM objects, the Windows API and standard DLLs easily through java.
then again, i consider java a nice language - not a religion.
Windows NT and COM are built 'from the ground up' just as much as Java ever was.
Microsoft seem to have more of an idea how to write compilers and virtual machines tho.
J++'s compiler and MSJVM are both like 3 or 4 times faster than anything anyone else (including sun) has come up with. I guess that's why they won best VM, Compiler & Debugger at java one.
I use J++ primaraly because it's fast. I can't stand working with a java based one for long because i don't have a PII-500 and cant be bothered waiting 5 minutes for the darn things to load.
Are you also going to boycott all Microsoft products because they are trying to fake a study on Linux usability?
So whenever microsoft does a study on competition (or maybe just linux?) it's automatically considered fake, and most likely a preemptive FUD attack?
Wonderful.
It's one of the best java applications i've used, I think the guys who write it (like KDevel) have copied Visual Studio :).
I hope netbeans doesn't get munted if sun buys them.
BTW, can they make a java development tool that doesn't take 70mb of ram and that's _fast_?
Netbeans doesn't run on microsoft's virtual machine - which basically dooms it to very slow AWT graphics.
although this may seem funny to giggling linuxers, it's not very nice to the newbie who's probably not even a microsoft engineer, but someone hired to test out linux as a newbie.
In that case, you _CAN_ remove explorer, if you don't want to use explorer as your shell - replace the windows shell with netscape if you prefer windows to take 2 hours to load.
netscape could have easily written a windows explorer replacement if they wanted to (providing they found some programmers that could program).
As a windows user, I can safly say that providing it was only applications I use (mostly MS software like Visual Studio, Office etc) I could save etc using just the keyboard - and then shutdown using just the keyboard.