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Sun Gives Up on Java Tools
According to a story published yesterday evening on the ZDNet Web site, Sun Microsystems, Inc. is going to drop Java Workshop and Java Studio. Instead, the article says, they are shopping for an outside company that produces and supports Java tools. NetBeans is mentioned as a possible acquisition, but that's only a rumor at this point.
Use guavac. It is very fast, and it is not proprietary crap.
I don't see the masses beating down doors for the Microsoft development tools.
Yeah, no one uses that VB thing, or that VC++ thing.
;>
I couldn't have said it better myself.
It's fun to watch a puzzled Java programmer trying to figure out why their program runs so slow while blindly praising the virtues of Java over all other computer languages.
Good decision about dropping Java Workshop, Sun. Now please drop C++ Workshop - what a bloatpig that is!
> This bug that you refer to about slow printing is referenced in the Java Developer Connection's Bug Parade.
...
Yes, I know, trust me, I used to check the Bug Parade quite often to work around bugs in the JDK and even submited two bugs. (or one ? can't remenber). I found it very useful to work around the bugs.
I used the "fix" (disabling the double buffering before printing), but still printing was slow, and it was really hard to format the bill the way I wanted... Maybe I shouldn't have used the JDK directly but there wasn't any IDE with the Java2 platform.
Moral of the story, do not believe the hype from Sun and magazines even techie one such as Dr Dobbs.
Maybe sometimes, Java will mature into a usable tool for making applications (and not applets), but before I try it again, this time I will check carefuly the bug parade
Though I use texteditor mostly, I can see the benefit. Servlets are typically made up of several more or less standard non visual components (beans) that are connected together. IDEs like visual age contain nice functionality for connecting such components, so not only is it possible, it is probably a nice thing to have too!
Jilles
Most benchmarks show both IBM's vm and Sun's hotspot to be way faster than anything MS has. I think there are several other VMs out there that are faster to. MS more or less stopped developing their VM and J++ long time ago.
Jilles
works here.
you get what you paid for
- The only future they see for Java is as a client in a client/server world where Sun makes all the servers. Um... Java runs great on AS/400s, System 390, RS/6000, OS/2, Linux, FreeBSD, Windows NT and HPUX. Here's clue #1: Sun doesn't make all these servers.
- They claim Java is a write-once-run-anywhere system, but they haven't worked very hard at getting other operating systems to run period. That's right, they haven't, but IBM, Microsoft, and HP have. What's your point again?
- Sun is hedging their bets on the SunRay1, which is a Java thinclient, that will more than likely only work with Sun servers. Interesting. Let's see some actual information about the SunRay: "Sun Ray can run any kind of software, including Windows 98, Windows NT, Linux and Sun's own Solaris operating system." Wait a minute! It's not a Java thin client... you're just full of shit!
- I stopped supporting Sun *long* ago... it's making me sick. Maybe if you took the nice pills the nice doctors give you, you'll get better and they'll let you out of the padded room.
BTW, who marked this guy's post "Insightful"?I suppose this is what you are looking for: http://www.volano.com/report.html
You are right about sun using Java as a tool to stimulate hardware sales but everything else you say is BS.
First Java is getting big on the server side. Suns vm is particularly good in running server side stuff. They are also pushing it on the embedded machine side (again good for hw sales).
Your qualification of the sunray as a Java thin client is not correct. The new SunRay1 machines do not include a clientside vm. They don't need to because all they do is display the output of apps (possibly Java apps) on the server side.
"but I stopped supporting Sun *long* ago"
That is no excuse for spreading ill informed rumours.
Jilles
http://www.javalobby.org/servlet/News?action=displ ayStories&xsl=comm ent.xsl&format=full&id=500400000000620
I thought I'd mention that I've heard rumors of SynerJ being ported to Linux. It is currently available for NT and Solaris (for deployment only, though I'm sure everything will be on Solaris relatively soon).
The SynerJ IDE is not 100% Java, but it is very portable. I believe it is implemented primarily in their proprietary 4GL (TOOL - Transactional Object Oriented Language), which has been ported to NT, many Unixes, VMS, and even OS/390.
The SynerJ runtime is 100% Java.
"Why don't I see them? Oh, yeah I forgot, its all "server side". Right. "
Yeah, it's all hype. Millions of Java programmers are just playing quake all day and reading slashdot. Of course they are not producing anything that works.
DUH!!!!
"Don't believe the hype. Java isn't mature."
Are you?
Jilles
That's only for one specific area for java. if you benchmark raw processing speed and graphics you'll see very different results.
I used to work with someone who had worked on jdb, the original Java debugger from Sun. He was easily one of the worst programmers I have ever had the displeasure of working with...
-jon
Remember Amalek.
Sun is losing interest in Java, and it's starting to show. The only future they see for Java is as a client in a client/server world where Sun makes all the servers. So why should they spend their time building an IDE or RAD[1] tools?
If you look at the history of Java, and take a step back, it's actually fairly easy to see that Sun is losing interest in Java's original intentions. They sued Microsoft over it just to be a thorn in their side. They claim Java is a write-once-run-anywhere system, but they haven't worked very hard at getting other operating systems to run period.
It seems to me that at this point, Sun is hedging their bets on the SunRay1, which is a Java thinclient, that will more than likely only work with Sun servers. They want us to live in a world where we all use Java thinclients to work with our files and information on Sun servers. They want everyone else out of the picture of the Internet; they want to be the "dot-com" period. No Microsoft, no IBM, no nobody. I don't know about you, but I stopped supporting Sun *long* ago, and they're just going to get less and less support from me every day. They're making Microsoft-like moves at every turn, and it's making me sick.
-RISCy Business | Rabid unix guy, networking guru
your company here.
shelby != ford
If you want a nice, lean Java IDE, go with Kawa. VisualAge is nice (as well as nice and fat) but more suited for a team doing a big project.
If you are working on your own, Kawa is nice. If provides just about everything you need for small Java projects.
It is especially nice for students, as it is cheap ($29 academic pricing) and simple.
Frankly, I'd rather Sun concentrated on the core language and left tools (and many of the APIs) to third parties.
-Dana
Sun recently acquired Forte, a development tools vendor who had been moving towards the greener pastures of middleware/integration software.
Also, does anyone really believe this NC stuff? I've done the math on a market model; I can't get it to add up.
I'll look into it...but...
If you're talking about J++ being proprietry, I disagree. It gives you the option of writing faster applications - and basically using Java as a language - rather than a platform (which i very often go for since i like java cause of the beutiful stylish language - not the lack of speed and cross platform ability - native compiler here i come).
you can write 100% pure java apps in J++, and actually have the fastest compiler and debugger for java out there.
I like the option of being able to access hundreds of my own COM objects, the Windows API and standard DLLs easily through java.
then again, i consider java a nice language - not a religion.
This is nothing new. People were saying that Sun was going to do this a long time ago. ...and no, they aren't giving up Java. IMO, Sun should give up Java to a real standards commity at ANSI/ISO. Linux is helping give software developers freedom. While I like Java, it could possibly be taking away software developers freedom. No company should control developers. *cough* Microsoft *cough*
Emacs, JDE and JDK. do we need something else to write and compile java code? no.
---> Did you know Linux stands for Linux Is Not UniX ?
Please explain how an IDE could help you with servlets. I don't think it's possible. Just use a text editor.
You couldn't have used a worst example: Printing with Java.
:-((
I've tried to used Java, six month ago for a small shop. My problems began when I tried to print bills, with the JDK 1.1.7, the printing system was crude to say the least, and I didn't manage to generate "not too ugly" bills so as Java2 just went out and reviews said that it was really good, I decided to use it.
It turned out that the printing wasn't compatible with the old way, so I decided to use the new printing API whose design was much better, but it turned out that the implementation was quite poor: it was sloooooow, a memory pig and sometimes it just didn't worked.
So maybe you can print raw text with java, but even with Java 2.0 you couldn't print even simple page.
For the GUI, AWT design is quite poor, Swing is much better but it is a bit slow and memory intensive. There is a bug in the Java bug's parade which was there for more than a year the last time I checked: users were furious.
So for the two example, you have given Java is quite poor...
I've been burned badly by Java and won't use it again for a long time: too many bugs.
I don't understand at all, how it is possible that magazine are so stupid to hype any novelty without talking about its downside.
There was a fairly thorough review of Java2 in Dr Dobbs, and they didn't talk about these problem with printing and said that it was totally upward compatible...
Funny. Part of the (public) reason that Sun acquired Forte was to give them a set of Java tools. I wonder where this release fits with that strategy. Then again, this wouldn't be the first time that Sun was internally devided...
I mean, come on, it was a great idea but the only thing it seems to have accomplished is a make bad web pages.
Yes, you can do some cool things but ask yourself this: How often do say to yourself "Hey, that's a cool way to use Java on a web page" as opposed to "Damn this Java Applet/Script annoys the crap out of me". I find myself saying the latter.
Off the web, my few experiences have been with buggy, hideously slow apps. Bah!
Java...Ick! Yuck! Ptui! Don't even get me started on Java-Script.
VENI! VIDI! VICI!
I evaluated VisualAge 1.0 (a while ago).
:-). Most/all GUIs generate rotten GUI code, with all components glommed into one big function. I prefer to extend JPanels, etc., and build with these custom classes with proper comments, etc.
Plus: Stable. Looks classy. Never seemed to crash or act strange. By contrast JBuilder 2.0 would have its components go invisible whenever you modified them. Had to minimize, restore the GUI window to see the changes.
Minus: Hard to learn. Lots of hidey-holes to configure with point & grunt development. Didn't support inner classes (a 1.0 review, it now does this). Generates 5 files for a simple GUI screen -- one containing my code and four for its "internal" use. Can't export/import the code without losing the fancy GUI design context. Fragments HD seriously. Huge RAM and HD footprint. GUI development environment won't display custom components (that is, panel constructs that arent java base classes). Wimpy text editor. Can't use in multi-developer environment without big $$$.
Summary: stick with editor of choice (trending towards vim
Off topic: I'm disappointed with KDevelop using merely KWrite as its editor. Where is its "find a brace? Does it have a good regular expression finder? Multi-file search (a simplification of using find/grep)?
If you're still doing Java 1.1x development, Jikes is also a very fast (and very good) compiler.
For VM's, you really can't beat the JDK 1.2 with HotSpot - especially so for server apps, but I was developing an all Swing Java GUI and the speedup going from any 1.1 VM to the Java 2 VM was impressive.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
John Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz at Dartmouth.
It is 4 years. And if you have not seen significant speed progress, it is probably cause you have not written a single line in java.
---> Did you know Linux stands for Linux Is Not UniX ?
Could you work on making your article names a little more misleading?
I knew right away that "Sun Gives Up On Java Tools" meant "Sun Is Transitioning To New Java IDEs".
Java Workshop and Studio have some neat ideas, but like most things java...chug, chug, chug...i think i can, i think i can...
Such a beautiful language, such piss poor implementations.
I've always had a lot of respect for Sun, but I'm kind of rethinking that. Look at what SGI did with "jessie" and XFS -- That's way cool -- even though "jessie" doesn't run so well on my machine. But it's only 0.5 release.
Sun, please GPL something beside a little set of cli tools. That ain't dick. Workshop, Studio and HotJava Browser would be cool.
ibm has jike
symantec has their jit and cafe
inprise has jbuilder
there is plenty of competition that sun isn't trying to kill!
"The lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths."
--
And Justice for None
Sorry, you're absolutely wrong. Benchmarks show Microsoft's is the fastest - and from experience, I find microsoft's to be several times faster than Hotspot. What do you mean by sun's hotspot to be way faster? ROFL, it sucks crap. I remember sun claiming it made java as fast or faster than C++. It's crap, no speed improvement graphics wise (where MSJVM still kicks ass) and marginal improvement (no more than two times) with processing - still slower than microsoft's vm. Care to show me those supposed benchmarks? MS more or less stopped developing their VM and J++ long time ago Funny, they just released a new build a week ago. Proof here
I doubt if they are giving up on Java as a whole. They probably just found some better tools, and figured that re-inventing the wheel wasn't that smart.
Hat's off to Sun for being able to say that the competition has better stuff, and consolidating.
Hanzie
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
I never thought it was a great idea that the same company controlled the language spec as well as competed with others in the development environment market. Maybe now they can focus on the stinking language and deliver some of the details on those promises they made a couple years ago.
I just wish they'd leave Netbeans alone, they'll probably wreck it.
"Hands off my Netbeans, they're very sensitive right now."
Hotnutz.com
Good! I used Java Workshop while TA a course. It sucked! VAJ is much better. Of course I do all my stuff with vim! :)
AirSpeak - http://itunes.com/apps/AirSpeak
Last time I tried (the evaluation versions of) JavaStudio and JavaWorkshop (about a year ago, if not longer), some hacking was involved in order to get them to work on Linux, even though the tools were entirely written in Java.
--
bgphints - internet routing news, hints and ti
Way back in December, Sun said that they'd release the source sometime this year under the Sun Community Source License. Well, instead of giving the Open Source community a chance to improve the product and make it work well, they never released the source and are now dumping the whole thing to gobble up yet another company. Seems like if they just would've taken a chance on Open Source, they could've possibly saved themselves a lot of money. Message to Open Source community: Sun obviously doesn't trust you -- think long and hard before you trust them.
As an aside: Java really is a pretty nice language. I can't imagine any other company being such a screw-up when it comes to Java -- they fscking invented it, for chrissakes!
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Recently I was asked to create a new client/server system using HTTP (yes, it had to be HTTP). And that system has to respond to huge loads and many thousand connections/second. So I thought of Java servlets. And then I thought I would see what was out there in the way of an IDE and such. I was not impressed. Everything I looked at pretty much sucked.
Java is real nice and all, but I'm still waiting to see what the point is. There are no good tools, Sun doesn't know what it wants, MS keeps subverting everything in the name of marketing hype, and people keep trying to find a niche for something (Java) that was needlessly invented. (Anyone remember Kim Polese and how "push technolgy" was going to revolutionize your world? She's still trying to find a product that can live up to the hype her investors have paid her for...)
Anyway, it's a chicken and egg thing. Better tools mean better apps. The best Java IDE anyone could find was written in Java. That's a very scary thing to think about. Sun should dump the tools onto someone who cares (and who'll write the IDE in ANSI C). Then maybe we'll have a language (and apps) worth the hype.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Although the SCSL is arguably better than no sources at all. (Some people may disagree.)
A few weeks back, Sun announced the takeover of Forte Software, an Enterprise end-to-end development and integration tools supplier. Forte have a product called SynerJ (it's in Beta 2 at the moment)which is a Java Development environment something like JBuilder or Cafe - but it can be used to build distributed apps very easily. Sun paid millions for Forte - so they must rate SynerJ rather highly. JavaStudio was cack, so no surprises about this story. Maybe they want SynerJ to be the dev enironment of choice.
I believe Sun arranged for Borland to port their JBuilder IDE to Solaris. This product is now in beta.
Apparently this is a 100% Java product, so it is also expected to be available for Linux, assuming the Linux JVM is up to it...
JBuilder on NT is a good product, so if the 100% Java conversion doesn't slow it down too much (and JBuilder 3 is 80% Java already) this is certainly something to look forward to.
I have discovered a wonderful
The Java IDE has been something of a mess for a while, so it's good to see it get cleaned up a bit. Sensible decision from Sun too (shocker).
[cue plug-my-favourite spout] So this leaves us with Kawa (nice and simple), JBuilder (hideously unstable) and VisualAge (a proper object development environment).
I wish more IDEs for "object" languages took the VisualAge approach and didn't act like Java is really just a different C or C++. It's not! It's a different Smalltalk.
This is why VisualAge's environment, built on the VisualAge Smalltalk product, works so much better than the rest for serious object development. I know a lot of people seem to think it's weird - but I think this is the fence you have to climb over to get away from all that C-style worrying about source files and compilers and all that old stuff.
Just my 0.0^2.
__ Em
Sun's Java tools never were excelent. Although they maybe have the best GridBagLayout editor of all IDEs. But that doesn't compensate for other glitches.
The reason why the stuff was - hmmm - so uncool was explained by a developer of the JWS v2 to me: Not a single developer from the first version was on the development team of the next version. They all left, because of better offeres from other companies.
Imagine, you can write on your CV that you not only know Java, not only worked for Sun, but build Sun's Java tools. These people were in demand like hot applepie.
So v2 was build by "newbees". And most likely they all spend their time now in higher payed jobs somewere else. From that point of view it is a good idea by Sun not to go through this for a v3, but instead give up. Beeing Sun in that business might really mean, that you can't keep a Java developer for more than a few month.
It'll also help keep em honest about fully disclosing the language features and misfeatures to all of the tool developers, present and future.
No Microsoftian supersecret language / os features that only show up in our brand of software.
If Sun, the kings of proprietery hardware, buys someone out because they have a better product or new idea, it's ok. but if Microsoft does the same, it is evil? this does not make sense.
Sun doesn't need JBuilder to be on Solaris.
Most people who run Solaris are interested in have stable, enterprise-class applications.
Sun already owns (or will officially own very shortly) the best product for building these applications in Java-- SynerJ from Forte.
These guys were building cross-platform tremendously stable applications long before Java was around, and they have taken the good parts of their proprietary language and put them into SynerJ. It's seriously so much more advanced in certain areas than other tools, I'll be surprised if Sun keeps any of the other Java development or deployment stuff they've got.
Disclaimer: I don't work for Forte, but I have used their TOOL product, and seen what the Java product can do. It's *very* impressive.
Java, and especially Java Beans, NEEDS a decent, freely available IDE. If Sun is going to push one, I like to see them push one more refined than Workshop.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
"Just as Microsoft got it's true start by developing BASIC (read your history kiddies, that's where Billion-dollar Bill got started), Sun developed Java from the ground up..."
I may be mistaken but you seem to imply ("Just as") that MS developed BASIC from the ground up, at least that is how I read this sentence, which is quite false. MS just wrote a compiler for the BASIC language which was developped by somebody else (I don't remember his name right now).
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Where are all these amazing Java apps that "millions" of Java programmers are working on them?
Why don't I see them? Oh, yeah I forgot, its all "server side". Right.
Don't believe the hype. Java isn't mature.
Why are there no commercial Java applications like word-processors and spreadsheets?
I'll tell you why - Java is TOO SLOW.
Write a GUI app in Java and move a srollbar, for instance. It's slow - not nearly as snappy as a C++ GUI. Give a Java app to a non-programmer and they now something is not quite right - they invariably ask if something is wrong with the program (I speak from experience). You just tell them "No, there's no problem - it's just Java - all Java programs are like that". They respond "Who cares. It's slow". Think from a user's perspective instead of the narrow focus of a starry eyed Java convert.
Java uses 4X the memory of a comparable C or C++ program. You need at least 128Megs of RAM just to run with poor performance. The garbage collectors, frankly, suck at this point in time.
I'm glad you're proficient in writing in Java.
For a beginner programmer as yourself I can see why you'd like it.
Most commercial programmers would agree that the final result is much more polished and responsive when coded in C++.
The point was that Gosling claimed Java would be faster than C in 5 years. 5 years came and went and java is still 1/3 the speed of C. This is a fact. Look at the benchmarks. Where are the commercial Java applications everyone speaks of? There are none. I rest my case.
Recite the Java gospel - get a 4. Dispell rumours about Java's greatness, get a 0. I did not realize that Andover.net was owned by Sun Microsystems.
I'm replying to a comment scored *5* that implies that Microsoft invent BASIC. BASIC was invented in 1965 at Dartmouth College. MS developed a BASIC interpreter, first for the MITS Altair I think.
I don't think so. Sun licensed the Java WorkShop to Imperial Software (http://www.ist.co.uk)who added their Java GUI builder (Visaj) to it. Rumor has it that it's about to appear on Linux as well.
If you look at the copyright on Sun's Visual WorkShop GUI builder you'll see that it's from Imperial too (X-Designer). Maybe Sun's buying them.
I've heard good rumours about IBM's JDK for Linux.
Granted, it's not Java2 yet, but...
JBuilder 3 is already dreadfully slow, especially the parts that are written in Java (e.g. the help system). I dread to think how slow a pure java version will be.
Having recently spoken with the JDK team at the JAOO Conference in DEnmark, they gave the impression that the Java Tools are DEAD, but they still do the JDK stuff ofcourse...They said that doing development tools wasnt Suns Key Compentance, and that there are people / companies who are simply better at doing this. Furthermore they said that the would only make dev tools to further the acceptance of java, and not to make business...
It's one of the best java applications i've used, I think the guys who write it (like KDevel) have copied Visual Studio :).
I hope netbeans doesn't get munted if sun buys them.
BTW, can they make a java development tool that doesn't take 70mb of ram and that's _fast_?
Netbeans doesn't run on microsoft's virtual machine - which basically dooms it to very slow AWT graphics.
Just as Microsoft got it's true start by developing BASIC (read your history kiddies, that's where Billion-dollar Bill got started), Sun developed Java from the ground up and should stick with the language development aspects of Java. Sun is wise to contract out or otherwise semi-divest themselves of the development of tools for Java.
Additionally, while some would argue that only the people who truly know Java from the inside out, from the ground up, would know how to build the best tools... I don't see the masses beating down doors for the Microsoft development tools. In fact, a fresh set of eyes that is NOT completely steeped in the language development hurdles works without the encumberance of that knowledge. They work on the language in it's existing state of development.
As I heard Fats Waller (Jazz/Blues LEGEND) say in an interview once: "Be what you is."
D. Keith Higgs
CWRU. Kelvin Smith Library
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
JB3's IDE is also already almost Pure Java, which is presumably why it is so slow.
On the other hand, by doing a large project like JBuilder in Java, they are learning a lot about its slowness, suffering from that slowness, and thus having plenty of experience trying to make it faster.
If and when they get JB running quickly, that will be a good sign that Java is ready for "Prime Time" for large complex desktop apps.
If you can't write a decent IDE in Java, then perhaps Java isn't worth using as a language. A corollary to "Write once, run anywhere" should be the ability to develop on any platform that will run Java -- something that you CAN NOT do in ANSI C!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
As for "Java closing the speed gap", I'll believe it when I see it - hearing this is like listening to a tired and broken record. 5 years and counting - and no significant speed progress. "Faster than C" Gosling used to predict. He hasn't repeated that prediction in the last 2 years. Oh wait - Java is the ultimate thin client - give me a break - it's the fattest and slowest and most browser-incompatable thin client ever created (with the only universally-deployable Java applets still written against the archaic 1.0.2 JVM). Oh wait - we were wrong about the GUI Java stuff - server side Java is the true way! Good thing that these mega-billion-dollar internet IPOs came along so that finally Java apps can be run on the expensive $100K+ hardware boxes it absolutely needs. In this regard, Sun's Java is a huge success since it greatly contributes to their hardware sales.
Borland's Linux page
Borland is seriously committing to Linux, which is good to see. And I like the "well, what do you want" angle instead of a "this is what we want you to have" approach to the project. I've used Borland Delphi & C++ Builder (cut my teeth on Borland's C++ v1.0 :) ) for quite some time, and quite frankly, they rock. A bit weak on debugging, but there's always the excellent Numega debug tools to help out...
What Borland must focus on is making the path for Win * programmers to migrate to Linux as easy and intuitive as possible. This may irk the hardcore "never run windows" Linux programmers; how about it if they produce a development tool with skins like WinAmp, to please both camps?
Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
At least, the applications I've used have been. JBuilder doesn't suck, but it _is_ kind of slow. Java is good for applications where either performance isn't critical, or where the performance-critical sections have already been written in native code. But isn't all that suitable (at this point) for building large, complex software applications that require good performance. Anyone remember Javagator?
The pages on the SUN-W3-Server said so since March or April.
Sorry 'bout the ghastly pun.
I knew a guy who worked in Sun's "Visual IDE" tools division a couple yrs ago, and couldn't help asking the obvious - How is it that Sun created Java, and the main tools being used to code java come from Symantec, MS, and IBM. It struck me as profoundly ironic that sun was releasing this revolutionary language and their competitor was making more money off it than they were. His view was that sun really sucked at developing GUI/IDE type stuff. I believe it.
OTOH, sun is REALLY good at *nix stuff. I'm surprised that they didn't take the initiative to figure out how to win in the GUI world. This is quite a contrast to MS, which is ruthlessly quick at changing its focus, adapting, and winning marketshare.
I also can't believe how badly they handled the core java people - half of them quit after the product took off, which doesn't exactly help.
The java-written help sub-system of JBuilder3 is almost completely useless - even on a machine with 128M of RAM. This is disgraceful. Is this the best Java can do? Oh Yeah - the standard Java speed response - wait until next year! Too bad it's been 5 years+ and counting so far - where IS this mythical Java compiler that produces code that is faster (or a third as fast) as C++?