Some have been calling for a minor party alliance in order to just get to 5% and/or use that as a way to push approval voting, IRV, or some other fairer voting system.
That's an interesting idea. It would be great if it worked. I worry that especially with, say, the Libertarians and the Greens the extreme differences between their ideologies would lead to major conflict within the ranks of the alliance making them less effective than otherwise nad possibly even giving 3rd parties in general bad press.
Regardless, I agree with you that I'd be for it as well.
Sorry, I'm completely missing your reference here. I didn't know Presidents could amend the consitution, but that aside, what are you talking about?
Maybe you should go look up "attempting". Presidents can't amend the constitution, no shit. But he has actively campaignes for it as have the gangs of religious extremist thugs. Please don't try to claim that you're unaware for a hate based amendment to outlaw gay marriage?
That is the whole POINT of this thread! You claim that it is impossible to cannot compare the parties, so I am showing you how they are essentially the same.
Both parties suck, but the Republican party since Bush has been about bigger more oppressive police state government. Seriously Sparky, CIA torture facilites in third world shitholes where we send *innocent* people to be tortured solely on the word of a president who has proven himself to be a liar at damn near every turn?
I'm only trying to point out that Democrats aren't the sacred angelic beings you pretend they are.
I've never pretended anything of the sort.
All I said was that the Republicans are worse. That would be really tought to argue against given the mass of crimes, treason and atrocites comitted by this administration. Pointing out that the Democrats have done shitty things does not address the issue which is one of scale.
I would not have even bothered responding, except for your stupid signature about murdering people.
Self defense is all it is. They're the ones running an illegal war entirely on lies as planned, running death camps, assaulting the fundamental basis of this country in order to push their sleazy hate based faith on decent people, spying on us and a whole slew of other crimes.
Soap ballot and jury boxes are all used up. Ammo box is the only means left to stop these fucking scum from totally fucking this country.
I'm not now, nor have I ever been a member or supporter of any major political party.
Let me guess... you voted for Kerry?
You really suck badly at guessing games. Oh wait, you keep buying into the idiotic bullshit that despising the Republicans *for their actions* makes one a Democrat.\ Try Badnarik.
You accuse me of "spreading disinformation" immediately after claiming that the Bush's were responsible for 9-11
I said nothing of the sort.
I said that prior to 9/11, a group which includes many members of the original Bush administration as well as members of his immediate family published a paper wherein they say:
They want to invade Iraq in order to ensure future US economic world domination in the coming century.
They know that the US population would not buy into their scam *unless* there was an attack on this nation on the order of Pearl harbor which they can use as an excuse for the invasion.
That they said those things is a simple basic 100% absolute fact.
Then there was an attack which they immediately began misusing as an excuse to invade Iraq.
Nowhere did I say that the Bushies were involved in the attack. As far as I know there is no evidence proving such a thing.
That doesn't change the *fact* that they planned on misusing any such attack and did exactly that.
So, the fact that you couldn't even be bothered to read the writings of the scum you're defending shows that there is no rational basis whatsoever to your defense of that pack of traitors because you don't even know who they are, what they said or what they stand for. So you have nothing to base an opinion about this on. Yet given that you have proven yourself to know nothing about the matter you still feel like your opinion has any value on the subject which it obviously can't since you're entirely ignorant on the topic.
Maybe you should look into actually learning about something before spouting idiocy? Oh no, that would mean taking responsibility for yourself as an adult and as a citizen. Much easier to just suck on big mommy goverment's tit and believe all her lies.
You know this because it is all plainly spelled out in some super-secret document hidden next to the "real" Da Vinci Code and original Hollywood made footage of the moon landing.
No, I know this because it's on a public document posted on their website you ignorant fool. You know since you're defending traitors, it might behoove you to actually read up on what they say.
It's called being a citizen. So, think how deeply stupid you look when you spout your ignorant bullshit and yet you just demonstrated absolutely that you don't have the first fucking clue what you're talking about. You haven't even read the position papers of the people whose positions you're pathetically attempting to defend.
So, just stop it.
You're an ignorant fool and until you pull your head out of your ass and demonstrate even the most basic knowledge of the situation you will continue to be exactly that.
This whole thing is just too fucking ridiculous. I see that I'm typing a response to a fucking lunatic or paranoid sociopath who is real need of psychiatric help.
Yet you're the one who couldn't even be bothered to read the site put together by the group that formed the fucking administation which you voted for.
Get that. You voted for these scum without even bothering to take 5 minutes to figure out who they are. And given that you know that you did no such thing you're still trying to defend them when you don't know a fucking thing about them.
That's about as ignorant as you can get.
I just love that.
Your ignorance of basic public facts makes me a sociopath. Typical argument coming from Republican defenders. They don't know a fucking thing and claim anyone who disagrees with the lies of a politician is crazy.
Huh? Bush has always discussed stuff. He's always been extremely bi-partisan. Very gracious to the other party. He lets Dick Gregory and the rest of the press walk all over him at press conferences. Etc, etc..
Damn, I missed this one. This might well be the most laughable thing you said.
"Your either with us or against us" Bush has done everything to shut out and demonize anyone who disagreed with him Republican or Democrat.
And press conferences?!? Do us all a favor and watch Tony Blair deal with the British press. Bus wouldn't allow a reporter back if they even went so far as to do their jobs, let alone tried to do them well.
If you really feel that Republicans are THAT bad, and you honestly believe the tripe that you type (They did all of these things with malice aforethought and with no possibility of any sort of positive outcome from their cowardly treasonous actions.),
It's not a question of belief. The soon to be members of Bush's administration as well as his brother and father published a policy paper in 2000 stating their intent to invade Iraq to insure US economic world domination in the coming century, their knowledge that the American people wouldn't buy into their bullshit and their knowledge of the fact that it would be necessary for a "Pearl Harbor" type event to happen which they could misuse as an excuse to invade Iraq. Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and many others of that pack of mass murdering treasonous scum signed the fucking thing with their own names. It is a 100% absolute fact that they did all this with malice aforethought because they put their malicious aforethinking about it in writing.
You're the only one dealing with "beliefs". I don't need them since the facts are on my side and you have none.
hen it is DUTY as a patriotic American to gather other true patriots like yourself and put your Second Amendment rights to the use they are intended for and overthrow the tyranny that has entrenched itself in Washington.
Working on it Sparky. Don't forget that it's your duty as well. You aren't even doing as much as I am though. You're defending the enemies of our country.
So, STFU until your revolution is complete. You have better things to do.
Sing ignorant liars like yourself TFU whenever you try to spread your disinformation is apart of the job coward.
What extremism? I think Bush's "faith based" programs may be wrong, but they're not "extreme". Or do you just think that anyone who is religious is "extreme"?
Attempting for the first time in our history to amend our constitution for the sole purpose of discriminating against a group of people based solely upon how they were born out of ignorant religious based hatred *is* pure religious extremism.
Nonsense! We still have the essentially same reputation we had in the 90s. Those nations and newspapers who liked us before still like us now, those who hated us before still hate us now. No difference.
Laughable, and entirely unrelated to reality. We're hated by honest people all over the world because we as a nation have acted in a manner which deserves contempt hatred and fear. Recognizing that is called integrity. You might want to look into that. Anyone who doesn't fear us would have to be really fucking stupid at this point.
A bit of hyperbole, but it is true that Bush is a major spendthrift. Of course, so was Clinton.
Ahhh, the old tired "but Clinton" whine. You lose.
Every President for the past three quarters of a centry has grown the size of government and the debt. Followed up with an idiotic lie
Was the claim of WMDs a lie? Or just the result of mistaken intelligence?
It was a bald faced lie. The head of the CIA told Shrub not to go with the bogus info and that walking disaster went in front of the nation and lied straight to our faces. Completely made up Nigerian uranium bullshit? Hell, they even outed a CIA agent over getting called on the carpet for that bald faced lie. Aluminum tubes? I could go on and on but it's worthless. If you're so desperate to keep defending scum (which you sure as shit aren't even benefiting from) that you'll piss away all of your credibility like this, then all the facts in the world will do nothing to change your view. You can't be reasoned out of a position that reason didn't get you into, and there is no reasonable argument for supporting this administration and its blatant, obvious lies.
Since every other world leader was certain Saddam he had them, I lean towards the latter.
Yes, if you make shit up you can convince yourself of anything.
Bush has been no different. He's no worse than Clinton in this regard.
Oh bull fucking shit. Clinton was no prize, but Bush's crimes and various acts of treason are far above and beyond anything Clinton did. The fact that you're even trying to equate the two is pure partisan hackery without a scrap of evidence or even sanity backing it up.
I truly fear the day when your party gets back in power.
I'm not now, nor have I ever been a member or supporter of any major political party. The fact that you can't pull your head out of your partisan hackery to notice that people from all over the spectrum are waking up and realizing what an unmitigated fucking disaster Bush has been for this country, to grasp that simple fact speaks volumes.
Of course, all you're fearing is being made to take personal responsibility for your own chosen *actions*.
His options were to be a Republican where his social views would be ignored (and have been) or be a Democrat where he would be castrated for not supporting their economic views. When it comes to politics either party will support a candidate who wavers on their social policy as long as they support their economic policy. If you waver on the economic policy then you are dead.
That doesn't even make any sense. Ron Paul's economic ideas are directly opposed to those of the Republican party and his social views are much more in line. He supports a lot of the religious extremist nutjobism. He opposes big government, the Iraq war, and the other major fundamental Republican economic policies.
Liberalism is good for some issues, but not all. Why must people think that US policy and government must all follow one prescribed liberal or conservative way of thinking?
Because the fundamental basis of America *is* Liberalism. The constitution requires that US policy and government be Liberal. It's not even a requirement per se, it is the entire basis of the document itself.
Why do you think both parties are working so hard to eliminate it?
I'd like a real conservative and real liberal party, so people have distinct things to choose from.
Then we'd be back to one party.
What Conservatives claim to be wanting to conserve is Liberalism. small government, fiscal responsibility etc.
So real conservatism and real liberalism are basically the same thing.
Well, except for the so called Social conservatives who are nothing but extremist religious radicals who want to destroy the fundamental *Liberal* basis of this country becasue they're too fucking cowardly to deal with the fact that freedom means the freedom to do things which uptight repressed assholes don't like. So they have nothing to offer in a free civil society since all they do is screech ignorant hatred of things that have no effect on them.
It's not a slam against you. It's just that, especially in the last few years, "liberal" has become a derogatory term for anyone the disagrees with the "right wing" folks. There, I did it myself. And I can't give a definition of "right wing" myself - these days - other than to say, "someone who still supports the Republican party after all of these years of corruption and complete mishandling of international affairs." - IMHO
"Liberal" means one who believes in individual liberty. "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal". That's Liberalism summed up in a sentence.
Liberal is what the left and the right are right or left *of*.
The left agrees with that statement, but feels that the power of the state should be used against the individual in order to enforce that "equality".
The right fundamentally disagrees with that statement. They believe that some people are just better than others due to their color, religion, economic class or any of a variety of other mostly idiotic criteria.
The Republicans and Democrats both worked very hard to destroy the meaning of the word since they are both big government parties that despise the very idea of individual liberty. The democrats by coopting it and the Republicans by shrilly screeching the word with vitriol at every opportunity.
But right/left != Republican/Democrat.
Both parties hold positions on both the left and the right.
Heck, most "red states" are pure welfare leeches. They receive more in federal funding than they pay into the pool. They're very fond of telling idiotic lies like that they support free markets and dislike Socialism, but it's obviously not true. They just want the productive members of society to pay for their socialism and they just want to be leeches. It's the primary reason the Republican voters are so fucked up these days. They're living in a delusional fantasy world leeching off of my work and pretending that isn't the case. It's no wonder they can't even think clearly about simple issues and keep voting against their own stated interests.
And back on topic, here's the Dems pushing extremist right wing policies in order to rob the people to pay off the corporate elitists.
You could vote lib or something, but I think we need the greens right now.
I'd say we need the Libertarians and can't possibly afford the Greens right now. We're broke, destitute , busted. We have more debt that we'll ever be able to pay off and it's only going up with the party of biggest spending running the show through massive borrowing of money which we then go blow up in the desert as opposed to doing anything useful with it.
The Greens would cost us even more. The Libertarians would cost less.
From a simple economic perspective we can't afford the Greens, the Repugs or the Democrats.
Yeah, and I'll admit this is a big reason why I voted Republican in 2000: I saw the writing on the wall with the way the Democrats were cozying up to the RIAA.
I can't say that the results are quite what I hoped.
If you didn't know *for a fact* in 2000 that a vote for Bush was a vote for misusing an attack on the US as an excuse to invade Iraq then you have no fucking business voting. It's a responsibility you ignorant moron, not just something to do.
Had you spent 5 fucking minutes doing any research then you would have known exactly how it would have turned out. Either you're lying and you wanted it to turn out exactly the way ithas or you are too fucking ignorant to vote. Please don't ever fucking vote again if you can't be bothered to do any fucking research at all.
Your ignorance makes you *directly* responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. They would all still be alive had you and a few other people actually taken your responsibility as a citizen seriously. You didn't though. You just blindly voted for the worst traitors in American history because you were too fucking lazy to do your job.
I'm just sick to death of cowardly little shitbags like you trying to dodge responsibility for their actions. You could *easily* have known exactly where a vote for Bush would lead. You refused to do a god damned thing to inform yourself and so now we're broke with a shitload of murdered people, no integrity whatsoever, and *rightfully* hated by every decent human being on the planet.
Thanks a lot for not fucking thinking you asshole.
It's called personal responsibility. Try it on for size.
Am I the only one that notices when an anti-republican or anti-Bush article is posted, most of the replies focus on how evil Republicans/Bush/Rove are, but when an anti-democrat article is linked, the closest thing to criticism is "both parties suck!"
Well, if you'd pull your head out of wherever you have it stuck and take a look around at the results of Republican rule, you might actually come to understand that that is perfectly reasonable.
This is not a symmetric situation. The Republicans are *worse* on any scale you'd care to use than the Democrats. They have totally rejected any sort of moral standing in favor of pure greed and religious extremism. They have fucked our reputation irreparably, fucked our future by spending our income for years to come, and demonstrated a vicious hatred of honesty, discussion, liberty, and worked for the destruction of the constitution.
They did all of these things with malice aforethought and with no possibility of any sort of positive outcome from their cowardly treasonous actions.
The Democrats are not even in the same league as the Republicans when it comes to corruption and complete lack of anything even approaching decency. That is a bit of a back handed compliment to the Dems since it's not due to any sort of moral superiority, they're just not as good at being scum as the Republicans are. They are too divided and don't have the lockstep unthinking, unquestioning blind faith of the cowardly fools who vote Republican.
The situation is not in any way symmetrical. So, take your "fair and balanced" idiotic bullshit and shove it straight up your ass.
Who would've thought that it would've been the Democrats that crack down on free speech (Imus) and then pick this assclown to work their convention?
Most rational people? Both parties hate freedom. That's been true as long as I've been alive at least and I don't think many people think that the Democrats are defenders of freedom, even the people who vote for them.
The fact that the Republicans are worse on every level doesn't change the fact that the Dems are scum.
Are they shifting to the right, or are they just stupid?
Like the republicans, they've been pretty far right ( with some left-fascist elements) for a long time. Cracking down on free speech isn't an issue of left/right anyway. Neither Stalin nor Hitler was famous for their support of opposing views.
Whether or not that makes them stupid really depends on whether or not they get away with it. If they don't, then it was stupid. If they do, then the Democratic voters are stupid.
The problem that does encompass your thinking is this: Is there a side you find more acceptable? Certainly not all find either candidate attractive, but most find one acceptable.
For me, no there isn't. The Democrats are absolutely *less* awful than the Republicans on every issue. However, the Democrats are scum. Being less scummy than the most scummy group in our nation's history isn't a thing to vote for. It's a symptom of a massive failure of the system.
I will continue to vote third party for a few reasons:
I can sleep with a clear conscience. Voting Democrat just because the Republicans have proven themselves over and over to be completely amoral monsters would not allow me to do that. This is true *even if* the election came down to one vote so that it could be argued that I caused the Republican to win. I didn't want either of them but either way I'd get one of them.
If enough people (5%?) vote for a third party, then they magically become more viable (I know that "more" than none doesn't make it "some" in this case) because they get funding at that point. As long as people keep voting for the 2 scum parties we'll continue to have the same fucked up problems we see today. I refuse to be a part of the problem regardless of the fact that some people think that I'm "wasting" my vote. The solution requires a third party at least to even get started. I'd rather be part of the solution even if it fails for the rest of my life than to help perpetuate the problem which is what a vote for either major party always does.
You're still better off "hedging your bets" and going for the best fit. After all realistically, no, your candidate is not going to win.
Do you see why "hedging my bets" makes *me* worse off? I'm not unrealistic, I'm unyielding on matters of integrity, and pissing my vote away on a scumbag who is guaranteed to use that power to fuck me is not an honorable situation to put myself into, so I won't do it.
I can tell you that strategy worked for Republicans for about 8 years. The war on terror might've added a year or two though. That's about how long ago the Republicans stopped pushing a conservative agenda
Uh...No.
It's been going on 30 years that the Republicans tossed out their old platform. When they rejected Goldwater in favor of that death squad forming, crack dealing, biggest government supporting assclown Reagan.
The old Republican party died completely back in 1980 and it's done nothing but rot ever since.
it wasn't so long ago that Perot lost elder Bush the election.
I would never vote for a Republican because I have integrity, yet I voted for Perot. I voted Harry Brown over Gore or Nader in 2000 as well.
I don't think it's quite as clear as you make it out to be. Although I'm only one person, I know I'm not the only one who did that exact thing in both of those cases.
And I'd vote Ron Paul if he didn't run for the party that stands strongly against every thing he claims to stand for.
If he grew some balls and ran Libertarian I'd vote for him. No matter who it is, a vote for a Republican is a vote for the most massive government possible, no sense of responsibility whatsoever, and religious extremism.
That's what the Republican party stands for and that is *all* that the Republican party stands for. Lies aside, look at the actual facts and that is proven absolutely.
Voting for a Republican would say absolutely that you wholeheartedly support every criminal action of the Bush administration. You might think that's not what you're saying but reality doesn't work that way and most especially our electoral system does not work that way.
Considering that McCain and Guilani are the front runners, how is electing a Republican the "worst-possible-outcome"?
Because both of those guys are worse than worthless pieces of shit?
Seriously, all of you put down the McCain crack pipe and take a look at who he actually is. He lost the primary in 2000 mostly because the Bush campaign spread rumors about him having a black baby. Apart from what that shows about the deep seated hatred of liberty endemic to the Republican base that that would matter even if it was true, look at how McCain dealt with that.
He became Bush's lapdog, campaigning for his criminal war even though everyone who was paying aany attention at all knew the whole thing was a scam since 2000 when the PNAC published their policy paper pushing for misusing an attack on America in order to invade Iraq. So we have a war hero, ex POW, supposed "patriot" campaigning for a cowardly deserter who only beat him through a massive disinformation campaign.
Sorry, but if McCain is too weak and cowardly to actually stand up for his country against such a monster because his only loyalty is to his party, then fuck that bitch right in the ear.
Add in his sucking up to the religious extremists whose stated goal is the destruction of the constitution and you have a portrait of a man who is weak, who is a coward and who is a traitor.
McCain is pure scum through and through and has no moral fiber, integrity or honor at all. He pissed that all away years ago.
What does McCain stand for? Not a god damned thing. He's betrayed everything he claimed to stand for and is still being Bush's bitch pushing the troop escalation instead of standing up for the fucking soldiers who are dying for a piss poor tin pot political game which was never anything more than a transparent scam which only fools bought into.
So, yes. McCain would be every bit as bad as Bush. He's already that bad since he's working to further their crimes instead of being a man and standing up against them. Showing integrity would damage his political career, so you will never see any from that piece of shit.
And yet right there in the fucking summary it declaims the action and in the comments, it's almost all anti this whole thing.
So do you actually have nothing better to do than tell bald faced lies, or are you just completely unable to mount a defense of the treasonous actions of the Bush administration so you just make up idiotic nonsense as a feeble attempt to play the old dead "Clinton did it" type strategy.
Grow up you whiny little coward and deal with reality.
Take responsibility for the consequences of your actions you mass murdering little bitch and quit trying to shift the blame until you address your own massive faults.
It falls under 'inciting violence' and is thus not protected speech.
It falls under civil disobediance. Cowardly treasonous murdering scum need to be dealt with on their own terms. Rational discussion is beyond them, basic decency is beyond them, and even honesty has been proven to be completely beyond these scum. Do you have any actual workable suggestions as to how to deal with that pack of traitors dedicated to the destruction of liberty in this country?
It does however show you for what you are; a typical rabid liberal who wants to kill anyone who doesn't agree with him.
Wow, you're an idiot. Disagreement is fine. Terrorism, destruction of liberty, mass murder, theft on a massive scale, and the blatant obvious scam (which a child could see through if they had the integrity to look) that was the entire basis for pissing away billions in Iraq are the crimes for which anybody who is evil enough to still describe themselves as a Republican are capital offenses. I'm on the side of law and order in this one Sparky. I don't really care for the Dems all that much either, but there is no comparison. No person with any decency, integrity or morality could possibly be a Republican. Those are the things that they are most violently opposed to.
Of course, you've never seen a freeway with more than two lanes, right?
Plenty of times. It's totally irrelevant.
During rush hour, all four are typically parking lots.
With enough cars, obviously traffic can't flow. The fact is that it gets that bad long before it would if the idiots would stay to the right until they're actually passing somebody and then get back over like they're supposed to.
So you're telling me that you've never seen a freeway with not that many people on it that's being slowed way down by one asshole? You might think about getting out more. I can see that 7 days a week at non peak hours.
Slashdot Mirror
Some have been calling for a minor party alliance in order to just get to 5% and/or use that as a way to push approval voting, IRV, or some other fairer voting system.
That's an interesting idea. It would be great if it worked. I worry that especially with, say, the Libertarians and the Greens the extreme differences between their ideologies would lead to major conflict within the ranks of the alliance making them less effective than otherwise nad possibly even giving 3rd parties in general bad press.
Regardless, I agree with you that I'd be for it as well.
Sorry, I'm completely missing your reference here. I didn't know Presidents could amend the consitution, but that aside, what are you talking about?
Maybe you should go look up "attempting". Presidents can't amend the constitution, no shit. But he has actively campaignes for it as have the gangs of religious extremist thugs. Please don't try to claim that you're unaware for a hate based amendment to outlaw gay marriage?
That is the whole POINT of this thread! You claim that it is impossible to cannot compare the parties, so I am showing you how they are essentially the same.
Both parties suck, but the Republican party since Bush has been about bigger more oppressive police state government.
Seriously Sparky, CIA torture facilites in third world shitholes where we send *innocent* people to be tortured solely on the word of a president who has proven himself to be a liar at damn near every turn?
I'm only trying to point out that Democrats aren't the sacred angelic beings you pretend they are.
I've never pretended anything of the sort.
All I said was that the Republicans are worse. That would be really tought to argue against given the mass of crimes, treason and atrocites comitted by this administration. Pointing out that the Democrats have done shitty things does not address the issue which is one of scale.
I would not have even bothered responding, except for your stupid signature about murdering people.
Self defense is all it is. They're the ones running an illegal war entirely on lies as planned, running death camps, assaulting the fundamental basis of this country in order to push their sleazy hate based faith on decent people, spying on us and a whole slew of other crimes.
Soap ballot and jury boxes are all used up. Ammo box is the only means left to stop these fucking scum from totally fucking this country.
I'm not now, nor have I ever been a member or supporter of any major political party.
Let me guess... you voted for Kerry?
You really suck badly at guessing games. Oh wait, you keep buying into the idiotic bullshit that despising the Republicans *for their actions* makes one a Democrat.\
Try Badnarik.
You accuse me of "spreading disinformation" immediately after claiming that the Bush's were responsible for 9-11
I said nothing of the sort.
I said that prior to 9/11, a group which includes many members of the original Bush administration as well as members of his immediate family published a paper wherein they say:
They want to invade Iraq in order to ensure future US economic world domination in the coming century.
They know that the US population would not buy into their scam *unless* there was an attack on this nation on the order of Pearl harbor which they can use as an excuse for the invasion.
That they said those things is a simple basic 100% absolute fact.
Then there was an attack which they immediately began misusing as an excuse to invade Iraq.
Nowhere did I say that the Bushies were involved in the attack. As far as I know there is no evidence proving such a thing.
That doesn't change the *fact* that they planned on misusing any such attack and did exactly that.
So, the fact that you couldn't even be bothered to read the writings of the scum you're defending shows that there is no rational basis whatsoever to your defense of that pack of traitors because you don't even know who they are, what they said or what they stand for. So you have nothing to base an opinion about this on. Yet given that you have proven yourself to know nothing about the matter you still feel like your opinion has any value on the subject which it obviously can't since you're entirely ignorant on the topic.
Maybe you should look into actually learning about something before spouting idiocy? Oh no, that would mean taking responsibility for yourself as an adult and as a citizen. Much easier to just suck on big mommy goverment's tit and believe all her lies.
You know this because it is all plainly spelled out in some super-secret document hidden next to the "real" Da Vinci Code and original Hollywood made footage of the moon landing.
No, I know this because it's on a public document posted on their website you ignorant fool.
You know since you're defending traitors, it might behoove you to actually read up on what they say.
It's called being a citizen. So, think how deeply stupid you look when you spout your ignorant bullshit and yet you just demonstrated absolutely that you don't have the first fucking clue what you're talking about. You haven't even read the position papers of the people whose positions you're pathetically attempting to defend.
So, just stop it.
You're an ignorant fool and until you pull your head out of your ass and demonstrate even the most basic knowledge of the situation you will continue to be exactly that.
This whole thing is just too fucking ridiculous. I see that I'm typing a response to a fucking lunatic or paranoid sociopath who is real need of psychiatric help.
Yet you're the one who couldn't even be bothered to read the site put together by the group that formed the fucking administation which you voted for.
Get that. You voted for these scum without even bothering to take 5 minutes to figure out who they are.
And given that you know that you did no such thing you're still trying to defend them when you don't know a fucking thing about them.
That's about as ignorant as you can get.
I just love that.
Your ignorance of basic public facts makes me a sociopath. Typical argument coming from Republican defenders. They don't know a fucking thing and claim anyone who disagrees with the lies of a politician is crazy.
Huh? Bush has always discussed stuff. He's always been extremely bi-partisan. Very gracious to the other party. He lets Dick Gregory and the rest of the press walk all over him at press conferences. Etc, etc.
Damn, I missed this one. This might well be the most laughable thing you said.
"Your either with us or against us" Bush has done everything to shut out and demonize anyone who disagreed with him Republican or Democrat.
And press conferences?!? Do us all a favor and watch Tony Blair deal with the British press. Bus wouldn't allow a reporter back if they even went so far as to do their jobs, let alone tried to do them well.
If you really feel that Republicans are THAT bad, and you honestly believe the tripe that you type (They did all of these things with malice aforethought and with no possibility of any sort of positive outcome from their cowardly treasonous actions.),
It's not a question of belief. The soon to be members of Bush's administration as well as his brother and father published a policy paper in 2000 stating their intent to invade Iraq to insure US economic world domination in the coming century, their knowledge that the American people wouldn't buy into their bullshit and their knowledge of the fact that it would be necessary for a "Pearl Harbor" type event to happen which they could misuse as an excuse to invade Iraq.
Rummy, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and many others of that pack of mass murdering treasonous scum signed the fucking thing with their own names.
It is a 100% absolute fact that they did all this with malice aforethought because they put their malicious aforethinking about it in writing.
You're the only one dealing with "beliefs". I don't need them since the facts are on my side and you have none.
hen it is DUTY as a patriotic American to gather other true patriots like yourself and put your Second Amendment rights to the use they are intended for and overthrow the tyranny that has entrenched itself in Washington.
Working on it Sparky. Don't forget that it's your duty as well. You aren't even doing as much as I am though. You're defending the enemies of our country.
So, STFU until your revolution is complete. You have better things to do.
Sing ignorant liars like yourself TFU whenever you try to spread your disinformation is apart of the job coward.
What extremism? I think Bush's "faith based" programs may be wrong, but they're not "extreme". Or do you just think that anyone who is religious is "extreme"?
Attempting for the first time in our history to amend our constitution for the sole purpose of discriminating against a group of people based solely upon how they were born out of ignorant religious based hatred *is* pure religious extremism.
Nonsense! We still have the essentially same reputation we had in the 90s. Those nations and newspapers who liked us before still like us now, those who hated us before still hate us now. No difference.
Laughable, and entirely unrelated to reality. We're hated by honest people all over the world because we as a nation have acted in a manner which deserves contempt hatred and fear. Recognizing that is called integrity. You might want to look into that. Anyone who doesn't fear us would have to be really fucking stupid at this point.
A bit of hyperbole, but it is true that Bush is a major spendthrift. Of course, so was Clinton.
Ahhh, the old tired "but Clinton" whine. You lose.
Every President for the past three quarters of a centry has grown the size of government and the debt.
Followed up with an idiotic lie
Was the claim of WMDs a lie? Or just the result of mistaken intelligence?
It was a bald faced lie. The head of the CIA told Shrub not to go with the bogus info and that walking disaster went in front of the nation and lied straight to our faces. Completely made up Nigerian uranium bullshit? Hell, they even outed a CIA agent over getting called on the carpet for that bald faced lie. Aluminum tubes? I could go on and on but it's worthless. If you're so desperate to keep defending scum (which you sure as shit aren't even benefiting from) that you'll piss away all of your credibility like this, then all the facts in the world will do nothing to change your view. You can't be reasoned out of a position that reason didn't get you into, and there is no reasonable argument for supporting this administration and its blatant, obvious lies.
Since every other world leader was certain Saddam he had them, I lean towards the latter.
Yes, if you make shit up you can convince yourself of anything.
Bush has been no different. He's no worse than Clinton in this regard.
Oh bull fucking shit.
Clinton was no prize, but Bush's crimes and various acts of treason are far above and beyond anything Clinton did. The fact that you're even trying to equate the two is pure partisan hackery without a scrap of evidence or even sanity backing it up.
I truly fear the day when your party gets back in power.
I'm not now, nor have I ever been a member or supporter of any major political party. The fact that you can't pull your head out of your partisan hackery to notice that people from all over the spectrum are waking up and realizing what an unmitigated fucking disaster Bush has been for this country, to grasp that simple fact speaks volumes.
Of course, all you're fearing is being made to take personal responsibility for your own chosen *actions*.
Or do you just hero worship the Democratic Party and ignore what their actual platform is (and assume that anybody who isn't a Democrat is wrong)?
Well, your reading comprehension is pathetic since you completely made up the idea that I support the Democrats contrary to all of the evidence.
Come on, can you actually respond with a coherent argument that isn't spouting hate? Is that too much to ask?
I'll make you a deal. You come up with an argument that isn't complete nonsense pulled out of your ass and I'll respond politely.
His options were to be a Republican where his social views would be ignored (and have been) or be a Democrat where he would be castrated for not supporting their economic views. When it comes to politics either party will support a candidate who wavers on their social policy as long as they support their economic policy. If you waver on the economic policy then you are dead.
That doesn't even make any sense.
Ron Paul's economic ideas are directly opposed to those of the Republican party and his social views are much more in line. He supports a lot of the religious extremist nutjobism.
He opposes big government, the Iraq war, and the other major fundamental Republican economic policies.
Liberalism is good for some issues, but not all. Why must people think that US policy and government must all follow one prescribed liberal or conservative way of thinking?
Because the fundamental basis of America *is* Liberalism.
The constitution requires that US policy and government be Liberal. It's not even a requirement per se, it is the entire basis of the document itself.
Why do you think both parties are working so hard to eliminate it?
I'd like a real conservative and real liberal party, so people have distinct things to choose from.
Then we'd be back to one party.
What Conservatives claim to be wanting to conserve is Liberalism. small government, fiscal responsibility etc.
So real conservatism and real liberalism are basically the same thing.
Well, except for the so called Social conservatives who are nothing but extremist religious radicals who want to destroy the fundamental *Liberal* basis of this country becasue they're too fucking cowardly to deal with the fact that freedom means the freedom to do things which uptight repressed assholes don't like.
So they have nothing to offer in a free civil society since all they do is screech ignorant hatred of things that have no effect on them.
It's not a slam against you. It's just that, especially in the last few years, "liberal" has become a derogatory term for anyone the disagrees with the "right wing" folks. There, I did it myself. And I can't give a definition of "right wing" myself - these days - other than to say, "someone who still supports the Republican party after all of these years of corruption and complete mishandling of international affairs." - IMHO
"Liberal" means one who believes in individual liberty. "We hold these truths to be self evident: That all men are created equal". That's Liberalism summed up in a sentence.
Liberal is what the left and the right are right or left *of*.
The left agrees with that statement, but feels that the power of the state should be used against the individual in order to enforce that "equality".
The right fundamentally disagrees with that statement. They believe that some people are just better than others due to their color, religion, economic class or any of a variety of other mostly idiotic criteria.
The Republicans and Democrats both worked very hard to destroy the meaning of the word since they are both big government parties that despise the very idea of individual liberty. The democrats by coopting it and the Republicans by shrilly screeching the word with vitriol at every opportunity.
But right/left != Republican/Democrat.
Both parties hold positions on both the left and the right.
Heck, most "red states" are pure welfare leeches. They receive more in federal funding than they pay into the pool. They're very fond of telling idiotic lies like that they support free markets and dislike Socialism, but it's obviously not true.
They just want the productive members of society to pay for their socialism and they just want to be leeches.
It's the primary reason the Republican voters are so fucked up these days. They're living in a delusional fantasy world leeching off of my work and pretending that isn't the case. It's no wonder they can't even think clearly about simple issues and keep voting against their own stated interests.
And back on topic, here's the Dems pushing extremist right wing policies in order to rob the people to pay off the corporate elitists.
You could vote lib or something, but I think we need the greens right now.
I'd say we need the Libertarians and can't possibly afford the Greens right now.
We're broke, destitute , busted.
We have more debt that we'll ever be able to pay off and it's only going up with the party of biggest spending running the show through massive borrowing of money which we then go blow up in the desert as opposed to doing anything useful with it.
The Greens would cost us even more. The Libertarians would cost less.
From a simple economic perspective we can't afford the Greens, the Repugs or the Democrats.
Yeah, and I'll admit this is a big reason why I voted Republican in 2000: I saw the writing on the wall with the way the Democrats were cozying up to the RIAA.
I can't say that the results are quite what I hoped.
If you didn't know *for a fact* in 2000 that a vote for Bush was a vote for misusing an attack on the US as an excuse to invade Iraq then you have no fucking business voting. It's a responsibility you ignorant moron, not just something to do.
Had you spent 5 fucking minutes doing any research then you would have known exactly how it would have turned out.
Either you're lying and you wanted it to turn out exactly the way ithas or you are too fucking ignorant to vote. Please don't ever fucking vote again if you can't be bothered to do any fucking research at all.
Your ignorance makes you *directly* responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
They would all still be alive had you and a few other people actually taken your responsibility as a citizen seriously. You didn't though. You just blindly voted for the worst traitors in American history because you were too fucking lazy to do your job.
I'm just sick to death of cowardly little shitbags like you trying to dodge responsibility for their actions.
You could *easily* have known exactly where a vote for Bush would lead. You refused to do a god damned thing to inform yourself and so now we're broke with a shitload of murdered people, no integrity whatsoever, and *rightfully* hated by every decent human being on the planet.
Thanks a lot for not fucking thinking you asshole.
It's called personal responsibility. Try it on for size.
Am I the only one that notices when an anti-republican or anti-Bush article is posted, most of the replies focus on how evil Republicans/Bush/Rove are, but when an anti-democrat article is linked, the closest thing to criticism is "both parties suck!"
Well, if you'd pull your head out of wherever you have it stuck and take a look around at the results of Republican rule, you might actually come to understand that that is perfectly reasonable.
This is not a symmetric situation. The Republicans are *worse* on any scale you'd care to use than the Democrats. They have totally rejected any sort of moral standing in favor of pure greed and religious extremism. They have fucked our reputation irreparably, fucked our future by spending our income for years to come, and demonstrated a vicious hatred of honesty, discussion, liberty, and worked for the destruction of the constitution.
They did all of these things with malice aforethought and with no possibility of any sort of positive outcome from their cowardly treasonous actions.
The Democrats are not even in the same league as the Republicans when it comes to corruption and complete lack of anything even approaching decency.
That is a bit of a back handed compliment to the Dems since it's not due to any sort of moral superiority, they're just not as good at being scum as the Republicans are. They are too divided and don't have the lockstep unthinking, unquestioning blind faith of the cowardly fools who vote Republican.
The situation is not in any way symmetrical.
So, take your "fair and balanced" idiotic bullshit and shove it straight up your ass.
Who would've thought that it would've been the Democrats that crack down on free speech (Imus) and then pick this assclown to work their convention?
Most rational people?
Both parties hate freedom. That's been true as long as I've been alive at least and I don't think many people think that the Democrats are defenders of freedom, even the people who vote for them.
The fact that the Republicans are worse on every level doesn't change the fact that the Dems are scum.
Are they shifting to the right, or are they just stupid?
Like the republicans, they've been pretty far right ( with some left-fascist elements) for a long time.
Cracking down on free speech isn't an issue of left/right anyway. Neither Stalin nor Hitler was famous for their support of opposing views.
Whether or not that makes them stupid really depends on whether or not they get away with it.
If they don't, then it was stupid. If they do, then the Democratic voters are stupid.
The problem that does encompass your thinking is this: Is there a side you find more acceptable? Certainly not all find either candidate attractive, but most find one acceptable.
For me, no there isn't.
The Democrats are absolutely *less* awful than the Republicans on every issue.
However, the Democrats are scum.
Being less scummy than the most scummy group in our nation's history isn't a thing to vote for. It's a symptom of a massive failure of the system.
I will continue to vote third party for a few reasons:
I can sleep with a clear conscience. Voting Democrat just because the Republicans have proven themselves over and over to be completely amoral monsters would not allow me to do that. This is true *even if* the election came down to one vote so that it could be argued that I caused the Republican to win.
I didn't want either of them but either way I'd get one of them.
If enough people (5%?) vote for a third party, then they magically become more viable (I know that "more" than none doesn't make it "some" in this case) because they get funding at that point.
As long as people keep voting for the 2 scum parties we'll continue to have the same fucked up problems we see today. I refuse to be a part of the problem regardless of the fact that some people think that I'm "wasting" my vote. The solution requires a third party at least to even get started. I'd rather be part of the solution even if it fails for the rest of my life than to help perpetuate the problem which is what a vote for either major party always does.
You're still better off "hedging your bets" and going for the best fit. After all realistically, no, your candidate is not going to win.
Do you see why "hedging my bets" makes *me* worse off? I'm not unrealistic, I'm unyielding on matters of integrity, and pissing my vote away on a scumbag who is guaranteed to use that power to fuck me is not an honorable situation to put myself into, so I won't do it.
I can tell you that strategy worked for Republicans for about 8 years. The war on terror might've added a year or two though. That's about how long ago the Republicans stopped pushing a conservative agenda
Uh...No.
It's been going on 30 years that the Republicans tossed out their old platform. When they rejected Goldwater in favor of that death squad forming, crack dealing, biggest government supporting assclown Reagan.
The old Republican party died completely back in 1980 and it's done nothing but rot ever since.
it wasn't so long ago that Perot lost elder Bush the election.
I would never vote for a Republican because I have integrity, yet I voted for Perot.
I voted Harry Brown over Gore or Nader in 2000 as well.
I don't think it's quite as clear as you make it out to be. Although I'm only one person, I know I'm not the only one who did that exact thing in both of those cases.
There are a few very good conservative candidates who will NOT allow religion to get in the way of good politics.
No, there aren't. Name one.
Then name one who could get elected without the support of the religious extremists.
Good luck with that.
On a more serious note, Ron Paul [wikipedia.org] seems to be a good match if one really cares for liberty.
Except that he is a Republican and so can not live up to what he says as it's diametrically opposed to the goals of the party.
I'll vote Republican if they run Ron Paul
And I'd vote Ron Paul if he didn't run for the party that stands strongly against every thing he claims to stand for.
If he grew some balls and ran Libertarian I'd vote for him.
No matter who it is, a vote for a Republican is a vote for the most massive government possible, no sense of responsibility whatsoever, and religious extremism.
That's what the Republican party stands for and that is *all* that the Republican party stands for.
Lies aside, look at the actual facts and that is proven absolutely.
Voting for a Republican would say absolutely that you wholeheartedly support every criminal action of the Bush administration. You might think that's not what you're saying but reality doesn't work that way and most especially our electoral system does not work that way.
Considering that McCain and Guilani are the front runners, how is electing a Republican the "worst-possible-outcome"?
Because both of those guys are worse than worthless pieces of shit?
Seriously, all of you put down the McCain crack pipe and take a look at who he actually is.
He lost the primary in 2000 mostly because the Bush campaign spread rumors about him having a black baby.
Apart from what that shows about the deep seated hatred of liberty endemic to the Republican base that that would matter even if it was true, look at how McCain dealt with that.
He became Bush's lapdog, campaigning for his criminal war even though everyone who was paying aany attention at all knew the whole thing was a scam since 2000 when the PNAC published their policy paper pushing for misusing an attack on America in order to invade Iraq.
So we have a war hero, ex POW, supposed "patriot" campaigning for a cowardly deserter who only beat him through a massive disinformation campaign.
Sorry, but if McCain is too weak and cowardly to actually stand up for his country against such a monster because his only loyalty is to his party, then fuck that bitch right in the ear.
Add in his sucking up to the religious extremists whose stated goal is the destruction of the constitution and you have a portrait of a man who is weak, who is a coward and who is a traitor.
McCain is pure scum through and through and has no moral fiber, integrity or honor at all. He pissed that all away years ago.
What does McCain stand for? Not a god damned thing. He's betrayed everything he claimed to stand for and is still being Bush's bitch pushing the troop escalation instead of standing up for the fucking soldiers who are dying for a piss poor tin pot political game which was never anything more than a transparent scam which only fools bought into.
So, yes. McCain would be every bit as bad as Bush. He's already that bad since he's working to further their crimes instead of being a man and standing up against them. Showing integrity would damage his political career, so you will never see any from that piece of shit.
Not a fucking thing.
And yet right there in the fucking summary it declaims the action and in the comments, it's almost all anti this whole thing.
So do you actually have nothing better to do than tell bald faced lies, or are you just completely unable to mount a defense of the treasonous actions of the Bush administration so you just make up idiotic nonsense as a feeble attempt to play the old dead "Clinton did it" type strategy.
Grow up you whiny little coward and deal with reality.
Take responsibility for the consequences of your actions you mass murdering little bitch and quit trying to shift the blame until you address your own massive faults.
Your sig is illegal if you are in the US.
No shit, Sherlock.
It falls under 'inciting violence' and is thus not protected speech.
It falls under civil disobediance. Cowardly treasonous murdering scum need to be dealt with on their own terms. Rational discussion is beyond them, basic decency is beyond them, and even honesty has been proven to be completely beyond these scum. Do you have any actual workable suggestions as to how to deal with that pack of traitors dedicated to the destruction of liberty in this country?
It does however show you for what you are; a typical rabid liberal who wants to kill anyone who doesn't agree with him.
Wow, you're an idiot.
Disagreement is fine.
Terrorism, destruction of liberty, mass murder, theft on a massive scale, and the blatant obvious scam (which a child could see through if they had the integrity to look) that was the entire basis for pissing away billions in Iraq are the crimes for which anybody who is evil enough to still describe themselves as a Republican are capital offenses.
I'm on the side of law and order in this one Sparky.
I don't really care for the Dems all that much either, but there is no comparison. No person with any decency, integrity or morality could possibly be a Republican. Those are the things that they are most violently opposed to.
Of course, you've never seen a freeway with more than two lanes, right?
Plenty of times. It's totally irrelevant.
During rush hour, all four are typically parking lots.
With enough cars, obviously traffic can't flow. The fact is that it gets that bad long before it would if the idiots would stay to the right until they're actually passing somebody and then get back over like they're supposed to.
So you're telling me that you've never seen a freeway with not that many people on it that's being slowed way down by one asshole?
You might think about getting out more. I can see that 7 days a week at non peak hours.