Re:If 3.5 is a major release...
on
KDE 3.5 Released
·
· Score: 1
I'm not knocking them, but I thought there was an accepted custom to releases.
In the grand tradition of Open Source offering choice, above all else, there are in fact several different accepted customs to releases. Just don't put the supporters of different ones into one room and you'll be fine.
Did anyone say that this was open source? It's an open specification, not open source — it now allows open source solutions to implement this open specification, too.
Agreed. It's only now that there's real competition for MS again that they've retaken an interest. I think this can only be good for everyone (MS has already been working with other people on GUIs reflecting insecurity, and they designed the non-blocking popup notifier seen in Firefox for IE). Nobody really loses from teams bringing new stuff to the table.
Exactly the credibility that he had before with right-thinking people who don't like Microsoft, and more with people who do like Microsoft and hadn't previously heard of him?
There is a managed version as well, apparently, that's probably the one that should be used for fair comparison. The language feature argument should, as you say, be discounted, since JNI is likewise a feature of Java — it doesn't mean it's fair game to just call native code because of this, though.
Fair point — it only really runs on BSD, Linux, OSX, and Windows. Swing is better for OSX in particular because it's an abstraction, as opposed to GTK which can't really adapt all that much. I thought that Mono used the (proven cross-platform) Boehm GC though (I have to say, I only have BSD, Linux and Windows to test it on!).
.NET (the Microsoft one) does run on BSD, PDAs, and mobiles (well, those Windows ones, anyway, using the cut-down-but-still-neat Compact Framework). And obviously you choose the tool for the job — I don't think dismissing Mono,.NET, or C# out-of-hand is justified, really.
I also have not bothered with c# yet because I see little benefit over Java unless you are going to stick to just Windows. I have to develop for Windows and Linux so that is not an option.
The GTK classes (I know you said you didn't like GTK, but your major criticism is that it wasn't in C++, which isn't relevant here:)) provided by Mono for C# are cross-platform, maybe you should give that a go? I have to say I really like C# as a language — it's extremely similar to Java (of course) but has a few nice constructs that can help out a lot (delegates, in particular, come to mind).
I agree that the problem with Java's "performance" reputation is largely due to the bad performance of Swing in the past though. I myself (while writing Java) always found it slow, until I started playing with things not using a GUI, when I discovered it wasn't actually slow at all.
Your comparison is wrong, since noone told you to write your media player.
My comparison was that to build one's own car, one would have to learn something that they don't really need to learn to achieve their goal — in that case, how to build a car, for the goal of owning a car, in the original case how to use a command line in order to wathc a video.
People are not "stupid" because they can't/won't learn how to use a command line.
No, I think the point was that in FOSS land you don't bash an app if it has different key bindings than some of your usual native os apps.
Why not? It's a valid criticism. Consistency is a large part of usability, and usability is what GUIs are there for.
It's fair enough if it's ported from another platform and has taken the keybindings with it, that does not change the fact that its interface is crappy on the new one. The fact that a system is OSS does not remove one's right to talk about its flaws.
Not everyone is capable of coding, but most people can tell when something doesn't work they way they want it to. The problem is that those who are capable of coding are often a lot more tolerant of weirdness and having to learn new interfaces, even when it's completely unnecessary, so the feedback of those who can't code is often invaluable.
Yeah, the <canvas> tag was introduced by Apple, so they were first-to-market with this one. Looks neat, which is probably why it's being adopted by others.
I have different symptoms, based in the mouse emulation that the switch does. If I set up my mouse as a standard PS/2, with no special features and only two buttons (it's an MS Intellimouse, so this is quite a drop in functionality for a start), it works fine with KVM but moves really, really slow (I'm fairly sure this is due to just using the wrong X.org driver).
If I set it up as the correct mouse type (auto-configuration with the switch set to the Linux box does this) it works beautifully... until I switch to the other system and back again, at which point (I assume because of the emulation emulating another kind of mouse) it goes completely insane, pointer moving and clicking randomly whenever the mouse is moved.
It's possible that Windows just doesn't pay attention to mice "changing types" during a session.
For the record, I think the Open Rights Group are still looking for pledgers for their funding pledge, so that they can properly start up. You know it makes sense, fellow Brits.
Try adding "irqpoll" to the boot command, I had a similar problem trying to install Ubuntu on one of my machines, turned out to be a problem with the new kernel revision.
I believe that Mark Shuttleworth was asked this in an interview, and didn't come up with a very conclusive answer (to be fair, it's 4-and-a-bit years away!).
I don't see a problem with 10.4 or whatever, though.
If you're using a database (and you know about it), you're not the market I'm talking about.
Most people use computers these days, this is what is commonly referred to as the "desktop market". Not all of these people know a lot about computers. And, in fact, these people do not need to know about computers — forcing people to learn when they do not have to is simple arrogance.
I agree that the curious should always be able to know what they want about the products they own or want to buy. But they should not be made to. If they are concerned about being ripped off, they can consult a publication or a knowledgeable friend.
The wonderful thing about Linux, and OSS in general, is that it's so flexible. It is, in fact, flexible enough (I believe) to create a good system which will work without the user having to configure anything. Sure, they have the choice to configure it, but for everything else sensible defaults and sensible abstractions should be applied. Computers don't have to be hard to use, and they don't have to be understood to be used effectively.
And fuck this apathy. Learn how computers work. Empower yourself. Stop being a sheep. Beheheheheh!
That's just craziness though. Should one know how to fully service a car in order to drive it? Should one know how to design and build a house to live in one?
There's a place for complex, "you choose everything" systems. That doesn't mean that everyone wants to use them though.
Slashdot Mirror
In the grand tradition of Open Source offering choice, above all else, there are in fact several different accepted customs to releases. Just don't put the supporters of different ones into one room and you'll be fine.
Did anyone say that this was open source? It's an open specification, not open source — it now allows open source solutions to implement this open specification, too.
Agreed. It's only now that there's real competition for MS again that they've retaken an interest. I think this can only be good for everyone (MS has already been working with other people on GUIs reflecting insecurity, and they designed the non-blocking popup notifier seen in Firefox for IE). Nobody really loses from teams bringing new stuff to the table.
Exactly the credibility that he had before with right-thinking people who don't like Microsoft, and more with people who do like Microsoft and hadn't previously heard of him?
Fair enough reasons. :)
There is a managed version as well, apparently, that's probably the one that should be used for fair comparison. The language feature argument should, as you say, be discounted, since JNI is likewise a feature of Java — it doesn't mean it's fair game to just call native code because of this, though.
Fair point — it only really runs on BSD, Linux, OSX, and Windows. Swing is better for OSX in particular because it's an abstraction, as opposed to GTK which can't really adapt all that much. I thought that Mono used the (proven cross-platform) Boehm GC though (I have to say, I only have BSD, Linux and Windows to test it on!).
.NET (the Microsoft one) does run on BSD, PDAs, and mobiles (well, those Windows ones, anyway, using the cut-down-but-still-neat Compact Framework). And obviously you choose the tool for the job — I don't think dismissing Mono, .NET, or C# out-of-hand is justified, really.
The GTK classes (I know you said you didn't like GTK, but your major criticism is that it wasn't in C++, which isn't relevant here :)) provided by Mono for C# are cross-platform, maybe you should give that a go? I have to say I really like C# as a language — it's extremely similar to Java (of course) but has a few nice constructs that can help out a lot (delegates, in particular, come to mind).
I agree that the problem with Java's "performance" reputation is largely due to the bad performance of Swing in the past though. I myself (while writing Java) always found it slow, until I started playing with things not using a GUI, when I discovered it wasn't actually slow at all.
My comparison was that to build one's own car, one would have to learn something that they don't really need to learn to achieve their goal — in that case, how to build a car, for the goal of owning a car, in the original case how to use a command line in order to wathc a video.
People are not "stupid" because they can't/won't learn how to use a command line.
Why not? It's a valid criticism. Consistency is a large part of usability, and usability is what GUIs are there for.
It's fair enough if it's ported from another platform and has taken the keybindings with it, that does not change the fact that its interface is crappy on the new one. The fact that a system is OSS does not remove one's right to talk about its flaws.
Not everyone is capable of coding, but most people can tell when something doesn't work they way they want it to. The problem is that those who are capable of coding are often a lot more tolerant of weirdness and having to learn new interfaces, even when it's completely unnecessary, so the feedback of those who can't code is often invaluable.
Preach on, brother. I'm also upset with these "manufacturers" who create crappy cars for people too dumb and lazy to make their own cars.
You may.
Yeah, the <canvas> tag was introduced by Apple, so they were first-to-market with this one. Looks neat, which is probably why it's being adopted by others.
I have different symptoms, based in the mouse emulation that the switch does. If I set up my mouse as a standard PS/2, with no special features and only two buttons (it's an MS Intellimouse, so this is quite a drop in functionality for a start), it works fine with KVM but moves really, really slow (I'm fairly sure this is due to just using the wrong X.org driver).
If I set it up as the correct mouse type (auto-configuration with the switch set to the Linux box does this) it works beautifully... until I switch to the other system and back again, at which point (I assume because of the emulation emulating another kind of mouse) it goes completely insane, pointer moving and clicking randomly whenever the mouse is moved.
It's possible that Windows just doesn't pay attention to mice "changing types" during a session.
For the record, I think the Open Rights Group are still looking for pledgers for their funding pledge, so that they can properly start up. You know it makes sense, fellow Brits.
Very true. A slipstreamed XP SP2 disk, at least, would be needed to provide a fair test.
Ubuntu has always been surprisingly good for me though. It doesn't work with my KVM switch, but then no OS but Windows ever has, for whatever reason.
Try adding "irqpoll" to the boot command, I had a similar problem trying to install Ubuntu on one of my machines, turned out to be a problem with the new kernel revision.
I believe that Mark Shuttleworth was asked this in an interview, and didn't come up with a very conclusive answer (to be fair, it's 4-and-a-bit years away!).
I don't see a problem with 10.4 or whatever, though.
Cheers, I'll maybe look into that if I get the chance. :)
That's not really the same, I think (I have to admit knowing little to nothing about the Oracle implementation here), but at least it does something.
It would be interesting to see the Oracle and IBM implementations put side-by-side.
Doesn't it essentially store it raw, and use another system to load and query the XML, rather than this more-native approach?
Err, yeah, and thanks for glossing over the fact I wrote "^W" instead of "^H"....
My god, Sony have provided a viable Windows alternative to the old ^W^W^W^W *nix joke... it's worse than we thought!
If you're using a database (and you know about it), you're not the market I'm talking about.
Most people use computers these days, this is what is commonly referred to as the "desktop market". Not all of these people know a lot about computers. And, in fact, these people do not need to know about computers — forcing people to learn when they do not have to is simple arrogance.
I agree that the curious should always be able to know what they want about the products they own or want to buy. But they should not be made to. If they are concerned about being ripped off, they can consult a publication or a knowledgeable friend.
The wonderful thing about Linux, and OSS in general, is that it's so flexible. It is, in fact, flexible enough (I believe) to create a good system which will work without the user having to configure anything. Sure, they have the choice to configure it, but for everything else sensible defaults and sensible abstractions should be applied. Computers don't have to be hard to use, and they don't have to be understood to be used effectively.
That's just craziness though. Should one know how to fully service a car in order to drive it? Should one know how to design and build a house to live in one?
There's a place for complex, "you choose everything" systems. That doesn't mean that everyone wants to use them though.