dude... you're like, killing trees to make that paper, and octipusses to make the ink... if you carry on, you're gonna drown us all in global warming risen sea levels, even accounting for the drop of sea level that comes from taken so much of the ink out
"What exactly the fuck does being elected (or not) have to do with promoting free speech?"
I see you use the word 'fuck' to indicate you missing the point... well done you.
"for example you or me"
'You or me' aren't an unelected ruling body, a controversial ruling body that inspires the disdain of so many of the people they rule over, who complain that they shouldn't have power because they're not democratically selected by the people... democracy supposedly being the good thing that gives power to the people, so why is it not the elected that are doing the right thing? "Democracy is like three fox's and a chicken voting on what to have for dinner"... Churchill said the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with your average voter. This is the point. It's a demonstration of democracy failing in it's purpose, it's a demonstration that arguments against the House of Lords based on the fact that they're unelected, are flawed, as per the result, rather than the ideals.
"the rise of the nazi party didn't have anything to do with gassing jews"
Correct, it was mostly fueled by the fact that Germany was strangled by the sanctions put in place against them after WW1.
"If you can't see a parallel between those early days and the current situation in Europe viz Muslims and terrorism, you're not looking very hard"
Perhaps you're looking too hard?
"would you allow the nazi party to assume power, given what you already know, just because they get a majority in an election?"
See you learn a different message to me... the one I take from it is about not strangling nations of people, giving them something to have to rise up against. Getting rid of speech doesn't get rid of the thoughts behind it, it just pushes it underground, and gives you enemies you can't fight because you can't find them, or "asymetric warfare" as they call it. But, as it happens, I don't believe that "whoever gets the most people to agree with them" is the best way to pick leaders of countries, because, as you say, most people don't look further than their own pockets. If the press industry was forced to be honest with people, that may be a different story, but without a real world example, it's impossible to speculate.
"I could make a film just like the Dutch MP Geert Wilders but it would present Christianity in exactly the same light. Does that mean all Christians are terrorists?"
Firstly, what's this "all" business? We're talking about extremists using their religion to justify their actions. It doesn't matter what the religion is, it's the actions not the beliefs that are a problem. If you look back over the last couple thousand years, there have been huge numbers of people killed in the name of christianity, and yes, those people were just as bad... their numbers just happen to be somewhat thinner now.
To remove freedom of speech to "protect" people from thinkin bad things is plain ridiculous, we need to grow up not carry on living as children. It's thinking too much along the "treat the symptoms, not the cause" school of thought, and it will get us nowhere. If you wanna make changes, you have to look beyond the what's, like what germany did, and look at the why's... and you won't find anything out, without the freedom of exchange of information, and that my friend, requires absolute freedom of speech. Anything less is just enforced ignorance.
You check the return value of fork()?! I've never had it happen, so I just exit if it fails, assuming that it means the system's in a state and the less stuff running on it probably the better *lol* but then I can be pretty slack when it comes to error handling! So I guess what I'm saying is that by the time it gets to making a point, I'm no longer interested, as it's blatantly not gonna be helpful:-)
Not everyone with a differing opinion is a troll, some do believe what they say, and when what they say is that far and obviously wrong, it falls on the rest of the world to correct them, or at least point in the right direction ("can lead a horse to water" and all that). Feedback is how people learn.
Depends what you like... Perl's a favourite of mine, probably because of the things you hate about it. It has a very natural feel to it, as the way which it's evolved, like natural spoken languages, there's all kinds of often hidden subtleties, and there's nearly always more than one way to do anything, different ways efficient in different ways and so good for different purposes. Downside of course is it's multithreading support (or rather, lack of it).
I like it for server stuff, as it's real easy to get it to detect when the code on disk has changed, load 'n compile it into memory, and splice it into what's already running... without losing any data structures or anything, and if there's any errors in the code, throw an error, and go back to the previous working version of that module. Without need for any close/restarts.
"If they hate us, we should be free to hate them. It's only fair"
"Fair"?!! How old are you, six?! You're talking like someone took one of your sweets and now you want one of theirs. Far be it for you to be able to actually rise above something and ask a more important question than whether's fair, like whether it's productive. "They blew people up, why can't I?" or maybe "he raped a girl, why can't I?". Yeah because that's really gonna help. You really wanna find all the scummy things going on in the world and use that as justification for doing them yourself? Why don't you help us all out and just stop breathing, or possibly, if it's any less hassle, just grow up.
Re:First questions first
on
Linked In Or Out?
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Corrupt, not cowardly. Remember, it was a Brit (of the House of Lords in fact (read: unelected)) that invited him over to show to film. It was the home secretary of the elected government that got his visit rejected. I saw the interview of Lord Pearson (who invited him over) at Westminster, in front of a bunch of reporters representing various newspapers and tv channels, trying to educate them on the importance of free speech. I don't think there's a more fitting picture for the times we live, than one of our unelected, trying to convince members of the press, the importance of freedom of expression. "He should be free to say it, and we should be free to ridicule him for it". Never underestimage the driving force, the motivation, of saving face. This is how people learn. Taking it away does not have good consequences.
You're feeling attacked? That would explain your defensiveness... what it is that explains that though, I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it's the same thing that's causing you to delude in the notion that what you have is manners or respect for others. See all I'm doing is replying to what's being said, but you're really get wound up over this aren't you? And you seem to keep switching sides, you're arguing with me... as if I was you! All the things you're saying to me are actually things that you're doing... you're doing the religious nuts thing, the arrogance, claiming that only people who believe in the ten commandments can have manners or respect for people?
And how much weight does what you say really have? You can't even stick by the things you say yourself. Remember the days when you used to say things like
"I don't even see any sense in keeping this thread going"
Funny days huh... how successful was that plan? Oh it was completely not based in reality? Or are you just carrying on with something that don't think makes any sense? Ha. Sorry. Just forgot who I was saying that to for a moment.
So go on, is your turn to "not keep this thread going" now... maybe you could insult my mother? That would complete the clique that you're hitting nail on the head at the moment... or do us "scientists and non-ten-commandments" folk not have mothers? I guess I was just constructed by flying laser beams and genedigle engwineeween! Scary!
Wow, you think I care about your conversion? You live in a very you-centric world don't you? Only child were ya?
Why don't you just follow my advice, and not post in a public forum things that you can't handle responses to? Cuz if this is you "handling" something... actually, I don't think there's a sarcastic response fitting enough to end that sentence. Oh and "defensive" and "handling" don't mean the same thing.
"Well, nobody's been telling _me_ anything about religion for thousands of years"
I don't believe you've been alive for thousands of years.
"I don't even see any sense in keeping this thread going because we both know where it's going"
Nah I'm not really following it
"Go claim "I win" because I don't feel like having this conversation _again_"
Don't take part in a public forum if you can't handle responses. And who do you think I'm going and claiming anything to? I have no need for external validation, you're the one bringing your feelings into it, I'm just responding with facts. I've no vested interest in primative beliefs, 'feelings' of accomplishment over you not being able to handle responses to stuff you're posting are completely irrelevant and in your head only, which really doesn't add weight to the idea that you care about your beliefs being connected to reality.
I was just thinkin, one problem I once had with a site turned out to be that the cookie folder somehow had become corrupted, and a particular cookie became un-updateable... but then thinkin about it clearing cookies didn't work (as it couldn't delete it) so I had to move the whole cookies folder out the way (rename it, then make a new cookies directory)... the old cookies dir stayed there until the partition was formatted, even disk check wouldn't fix it. Seems far fetched, just pulling on past experiences.
"Doesn't science state that the Earth's rate of rotation had changed over time?"
Technically science only states how you'd find out stuff, astrophysics studies et al have churned up evidence that seems to support the idea of a slight change in day length, that the earth's rotation has slowed down slightly, which means that days would've used to've been slightly shorter, not longer.
"The only problem that I have with Genesis is that the Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day"
Yep, the earth 'n heavens were created before the heavens were populated with stars etc. But then people used to believe the earth was the center of the universe, and everything went around it, which is very much inline with the bible's creation story... they were just plain wrong. It's nice to wanna hold onto what people have been telling each other is true for thousands of years, but... it's wrong.
"Just as science is not infallable"
Says who? Studies may turn up false conclusions, people can make mistakes, but how to handle these to reduce their chance of propogation is clearly defined within scientific methodology, and it really works, we know more through following scientific method than we have gained from any other religion (see my post 'science is a religion')
When you get the "Slow Down Cowboy!" message, try holding ctrl+shift and clicking refresh - this tells the browser to override any cache settings, and tells any proxies to connect to the server and make sure it's getting the absolute most latest up to date version of the page. The browser will ask you if you wanna repost the form (being, your message), to which give it a yay... and see if that makes any difference. If it does, that'll narrow down where the issue is... and if not, that should rule those places much less likely to be where the issue is.
Slashdot Mirror
Even more of a reason why to not give it up to become it! That's just hassle, especially in todays economic climate. It's sound advice, dude!
I've said it in another post, but just to be helpful:
shopt -s histappend
add to your bashrc/profile scripts. Should do the trick for ya.
or just add to your bashrc/profile scripts:
shopt -s histappend
WOOSH is a weplacement shell designed to make BOOST compile faster.
Woo.
Yeah because the desktop users that linux is/isn't ready for are all about running postgresql.
(please don't read my point as me having any interest in who linux is or isn't ready for. It does what I want, and that's what matters to me)
"There's nothing wrong with PEN and TELLER"
How's that relevant?
dude... you're like, killing trees to make that paper, and octipusses to make the ink... if you carry on, you're gonna drown us all in global warming risen sea levels, even accounting for the drop of sea level that comes from taken so much of the ink out
"What exactly the fuck does being elected (or not) have to do with promoting free speech?"
I see you use the word 'fuck' to indicate you missing the point... well done you.
"for example you or me"
'You or me' aren't an unelected ruling body, a controversial ruling body that inspires the disdain of so many of the people they rule over, who complain that they shouldn't have power because they're not democratically selected by the people... democracy supposedly being the good thing that gives power to the people, so why is it not the elected that are doing the right thing? "Democracy is like three fox's and a chicken voting on what to have for dinner"... Churchill said the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with your average voter. This is the point. It's a demonstration of democracy failing in it's purpose, it's a demonstration that arguments against the House of Lords based on the fact that they're unelected, are flawed, as per the result, rather than the ideals.
"the rise of the nazi party didn't have anything to do with gassing jews"
Correct, it was mostly fueled by the fact that Germany was strangled by the sanctions put in place against them after WW1.
"If you can't see a parallel between those early days and the current situation in Europe viz Muslims and terrorism, you're not looking very hard"
Perhaps you're looking too hard?
"would you allow the nazi party to assume power, given what you already know, just because they get a majority in an election?"
See you learn a different message to me... the one I take from it is about not strangling nations of people, giving them something to have to rise up against. Getting rid of speech doesn't get rid of the thoughts behind it, it just pushes it underground, and gives you enemies you can't fight because you can't find them, or "asymetric warfare" as they call it. But, as it happens, I don't believe that "whoever gets the most people to agree with them" is the best way to pick leaders of countries, because, as you say, most people don't look further than their own pockets. If the press industry was forced to be honest with people, that may be a different story, but without a real world example, it's impossible to speculate.
"I could make a film just like the Dutch MP Geert Wilders but it would present Christianity in exactly the same light. Does that mean all Christians are terrorists?"
Firstly, what's this "all" business? We're talking about extremists using their religion to justify their actions. It doesn't matter what the religion is, it's the actions not the beliefs that are a problem. If you look back over the last couple thousand years, there have been huge numbers of people killed in the name of christianity, and yes, those people were just as bad... their numbers just happen to be somewhat thinner now.
To remove freedom of speech to "protect" people from thinkin bad things is plain ridiculous, we need to grow up not carry on living as children. It's thinking too much along the "treat the symptoms, not the cause" school of thought, and it will get us nowhere. If you wanna make changes, you have to look beyond the what's, like what germany did, and look at the why's... and you won't find anything out, without the freedom of exchange of information, and that my friend, requires absolute freedom of speech. Anything less is just enforced ignorance.
You check the return value of fork()?! I've never had it happen, so I just exit if it fails, assuming that it means the system's in a state and the less stuff running on it probably the better *lol* but then I can be pretty slack when it comes to error handling! So I guess what I'm saying is that by the time it gets to making a point, I'm no longer interested, as it's blatantly not gonna be helpful :-)
err, actually if you put a fork() in linux you get a pid, not a point, duh :-p
Not everyone with a differing opinion is a troll, some do believe what they say, and when what they say is that far and obviously wrong, it falls on the rest of the world to correct them, or at least point in the right direction ("can lead a horse to water" and all that). Feedback is how people learn.
Depends what you like... Perl's a favourite of mine, probably because of the things you hate about it. It has a very natural feel to it, as the way which it's evolved, like natural spoken languages, there's all kinds of often hidden subtleties, and there's nearly always more than one way to do anything, different ways efficient in different ways and so good for different purposes. Downside of course is it's multithreading support (or rather, lack of it).
I like it for server stuff, as it's real easy to get it to detect when the code on disk has changed, load 'n compile it into memory, and splice it into what's already running... without losing any data structures or anything, and if there's any errors in the code, throw an error, and go back to the previous working version of that module. Without need for any close/restarts.
"If they hate us, we should be free to hate them. It's only fair"
"Fair"?!! How old are you, six?! You're talking like someone took one of your sweets and now you want one of theirs. Far be it for you to be able to actually rise above something and ask a more important question than whether's fair, like whether it's productive. "They blew people up, why can't I?" or maybe "he raped a girl, why can't I?". Yeah because that's really gonna help. You really wanna find all the scummy things going on in the world and use that as justification for doing them yourself? Why don't you help us all out and just stop breathing, or possibly, if it's any less hassle, just grow up.
Corrupt, not cowardly. Remember, it was a Brit (of the House of Lords in fact (read: unelected)) that invited him over to show to film. It was the home secretary of the elected government that got his visit rejected. I saw the interview of Lord Pearson (who invited him over) at Westminster, in front of a bunch of reporters representing various newspapers and tv channels, trying to educate them on the importance of free speech. I don't think there's a more fitting picture for the times we live, than one of our unelected, trying to convince members of the press, the importance of freedom of expression. "He should be free to say it, and we should be free to ridicule him for it". Never underestimage the driving force, the motivation, of saving face. This is how people learn. Taking it away does not have good consequences.
You're feeling attacked? That would explain your defensiveness... what it is that explains that though, I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it's the same thing that's causing you to delude in the notion that what you have is manners or respect for others. See all I'm doing is replying to what's being said, but you're really get wound up over this aren't you? And you seem to keep switching sides, you're arguing with me... as if I was you! All the things you're saying to me are actually things that you're doing... you're doing the religious nuts thing, the arrogance, claiming that only people who believe in the ten commandments can have manners or respect for people?
And how much weight does what you say really have? You can't even stick by the things you say yourself. Remember the days when you used to say things like
"I don't even see any sense in keeping this thread going"
Funny days huh... how successful was that plan? Oh it was completely not based in reality? Or are you just carrying on with something that don't think makes any sense? Ha. Sorry. Just forgot who I was saying that to for a moment.
So go on, is your turn to "not keep this thread going" now... maybe you could insult my mother? That would complete the clique that you're hitting nail on the head at the moment... or do us "scientists and non-ten-commandments" folk not have mothers? I guess I was just constructed by flying laser beams and genedigle engwineeween! Scary!
Wow, you think I care about your conversion? You live in a very you-centric world don't you? Only child were ya?
Why don't you just follow my advice, and not post in a public forum things that you can't handle responses to? Cuz if this is you "handling" something... actually, I don't think there's a sarcastic response fitting enough to end that sentence. Oh and "defensive" and "handling" don't mean the same thing.
"Well, nobody's been telling _me_ anything about religion for thousands of years"
I don't believe you've been alive for thousands of years.
"I don't even see any sense in keeping this thread going because we both know where it's going"
Nah I'm not really following it
"Go claim "I win" because I don't feel like having this conversation _again_"
Don't take part in a public forum if you can't handle responses. And who do you think I'm going and claiming anything to? I have no need for external validation, you're the one bringing your feelings into it, I'm just responding with facts. I've no vested interest in primative beliefs, 'feelings' of accomplishment over you not being able to handle responses to stuff you're posting are completely irrelevant and in your head only, which really doesn't add weight to the idea that you care about your beliefs being connected to reality.
I was just thinkin, one problem I once had with a site turned out to be that the cookie folder somehow had become corrupted, and a particular cookie became un-updateable... but then thinkin about it clearing cookies didn't work (as it couldn't delete it) so I had to move the whole cookies folder out the way (rename it, then make a new cookies directory)... the old cookies dir stayed there until the partition was formatted, even disk check wouldn't fix it. Seems far fetched, just pulling on past experiences.
maybe even try clearing cookies? This may require a signout/signin
"Doesn't science state that the Earth's rate of rotation had changed over time?"
Technically science only states how you'd find out stuff, astrophysics studies et al have churned up evidence that seems to support the idea of a slight change in day length, that the earth's rotation has slowed down slightly, which means that days would've used to've been slightly shorter, not longer.
"The only problem that I have with Genesis is that the Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day"
Yep, the earth 'n heavens were created before the heavens were populated with stars etc. But then people used to believe the earth was the center of the universe, and everything went around it, which is very much inline with the bible's creation story... they were just plain wrong. It's nice to wanna hold onto what people have been telling each other is true for thousands of years, but... it's wrong.
"Just as science is not infallable"
Says who? Studies may turn up false conclusions, people can make mistakes, but how to handle these to reduce their chance of propogation is clearly defined within scientific methodology, and it really works, we know more through following scientific method than we have gained from any other religion (see my post 'science is a religion')
When you get the "Slow Down Cowboy!" message, try holding ctrl+shift and clicking refresh - this tells the browser to override any cache settings, and tells any proxies to connect to the server and make sure it's getting the absolute most latest up to date version of the page. The browser will ask you if you wanna repost the form (being, your message), to which give it a yay... and see if that makes any difference. If it does, that'll narrow down where the issue is... and if not, that should rule those places much less likely to be where the issue is.
no, waves and strings are merely created in the image of the god particle.
To witness the particle you have to destroy it *pmsl* I love the blasphemous connotations there
Well said.