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Linked In Or Out?
Mr_Whoopass writes "I am the IT Administrator for a regional restaurant chain, and as of late I am noticing more and more people sending me invitations to sites like LinkedIn, FaceBook, etc. Mother always taught me to be a skeptic, and, knowing more than the average Joe about how information can be used in this digital era, I am reticent to say the least about posting such personal details as my full name and where I work on the net for all to see. I have thus far managed to stay completely below the radar, and a search on Google has nothing on my real persona. However, now times are tough, and I see sales dropping in the industry I work in as it is a discretionary spending market to be sure. I wonder if I should loosen up on the paranoia a bit and start networking with some of these folks in case of the all too common layoff scenario that seems to be happening lately. What do other folks here think about this? I am specifically interested in what people who work in IT think (since I know that just about every moron who has 'Vice President' or sits on the 'Executive Team' is already on LinkedIn and has no clue about why they should be trying to protect their identity)."
What's your real name allready?
I know many people for whom LinkedIn was important in getting a new job. Not only can people see what you have done, but more importantly, LinkedIn shows potential employers who you know, which is valuable information to them. They can choose you above someone else because of the people they know, and will be incorporated in the company's network by hiring you.
-- Cheers!
The whole social network phenomenon is a lot like the lottery:
* You can't win if you don't play.
* You can't loose if you don't play.
The price of admission to the social network game is:
* Loss of privacy.
* You may meet new people. Some may be good and others may be bad.
* Get a new free email account because harvesting emails out of social networks is the new hotness for small time spamtrepreneurs.
It's a lot like real life. The more friends you have the less private life is, and the more people want you to sign up for their MLM.
-- $G
The only site I use is LinkedIn, because it is a good way to keep a thin attachment to people who are just contacts, but people I don't want to loose touch with entirely. That to me is far different than telling people misc details about my life that I consider to be private.
I am a very private and cautious person also when it comes to giving out personal information. I really doubt that your giving any personal information would actually bring in any substantial business and you would be best served by continuing to protect your identity.
...but I am surprised you are an IT admin and unaware of how both social and professional networking websites actually work. About the only thing strangers can see is your name.
Why are you afraid to put honest professional information out there? Nothing says you have to post everything about you. My profiles on social websites is very controlled and only portrays what I want. The basic rule, for me, is to keep my professional and business aspects of my life separate.
Lastly, I use my name for professional networking and a variation of my name for social. So, if a potential client e-stalks me with "Ruthered B. Hayes" they will never get the social sites I have under "R. Brenticus Hayes"
Bottom line, you control your image, be careful with it, but do not be afraid.
I love this stuff... It is all optional. There is no requirement to do it. Oh, but if you don't opt in, your life will suck.
My favorite is medical privacy forms:
I, James T Victim, hereby give my consent to Dr. Scrupulous to share every facet of my every bodily function, my entire medical history (including incriminating stuff I have to reveal for medical purposes), and my entire credit record to whomever may request it for whatever reason. I understand that I can refuse to allow this sharing, but then the doctor may deny me medical care and I will likely die a horrible, painful death.
I was signed in to LinkedIn for a couple of years, and never had a single job offer (I'm MSc i Computer Science and have never been unemployed, just for the record). Neither have I heard of anyone else who has had any benefit from it. So it propably won't pay off. Or - has anyone got a job through LinkedIn?
It seems to me that the argument that you set up is that you don't use the personal networking sites because you don't want to lose control of your privacy and trust a 3rd party with your data.
But since the economy goes bad, you saying that don't care about your privacy as much anymore?
I wonder if I should loosen up on the paranoia
You, sir, should be banned from Slashdot
You're in IT and you think the only way people can put together your full name and your place of employment is through LinkedIn??
I know a ton of people (IT and other) who have made the leap. I have a greater awareness of what they are doing professionally as a result (as opposed to something like Facebook which is much more personal). If nothing else it increases my awareness of their career goals when I see something pop up that might be perfect for them. Just be sure to only post what you're comfortable having the world know and pour through the privacy options on whatever site you sign up with. It's anecdotal, but profiles from social networking sites (if you're sharing them publically) seem to shoot to the top of Google rankings. What you put on there WILL be seen by potential employers when they do the cursory Google search.
If you feel that you might get the ax, or really before that's a possibility, start reaching out to folks in the industry. Make sure everyone knows what you're up to, and keep your resume up to date.
A big thing is to make and maintain professional contacts at other companies. If you take someone to lunch every once and a while, that helps.
The comment about the lottery is correct-- if you don't play at all, you have zero chance of winning. But there's another aspect that's similar-- you're unlikely to win big on a fluke. More likely, someone who already knows your skills and likes you personally will think of you when there's an open slot. In the upcoming tough economy, there won't be quite as many "casting calls" for jobs-- people are going to seek out the workers they want, because it's an employer's market.
Social networking sites can be one avenue in which you lose your privacy. However, there is another side to this coin. Namely, do you want to be able to make your identity online, or do you want others to determine your identity?
By using LinkedIN, Facebook and others, you can craft a very professional image that is put forth. In kind, you can be selective as to who you allow as a 'friend' or 'contact.' Therefor, your professional image retains intact.
Obviously you want to avoid posting pictures of you doing your last beer bong, or wearing a lampshade on your head, whilst posting white papers, and pictures of you presenting at conferences.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
while FaceBook is more general. However, before you sign up with FaceBook, read their Terms of Use. It is pretty Draconian:
"By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing."
Now, just below that there is a clause that says: "You may remove your User Content from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content. Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content."
If you look at that carefully, it says that the "license" will automatically expire... but it doesn't say WHEN. The when is given in the first part: you have granted them "perpetual" license. Maybe ending after forever is better than not ending at all... I don't know.
Further, they say that FaceBook does not assert ownership... of course not. You are the owner. But you have licensed them to do literally whatever they want with your data.
I wouldn't touch a site like that with a ten-foot pole.
I don't want to linked into to any club that will have me as a member.
He thinks he's smart, hiding from us, but I googled Whoopass and found 1,180,000 hits.
They are everywhere and all out to get you!
You just got troll'd!
Ok, Zuckerberg times are tough for everyone. Your terms of service thing backfired but this is no way to get new sign ups.
Privacy Is Dead, Get Over It with Steve Rambam: This is the first part of Rambam's essential lecture, presented in five-minute snippets. It's like a good book that you don't want to put down, you'll keep viewing the snippets (or search for the entire lecture if you have time to view it all at once). Nobody who uses LinkedIn or any other of what Rambam calls "self-contributed data sites" should miss this.
Most VP's and other executives could care less about their own privacy -- any successful executive doesn't really have much in the first place. Remember, a lot of these people are actually forced to divulge their own pay structures as a part of being a public company. So for them to throw their details into such networking sites doesn't actually cost them anything -- it's just another phone book.
On the other side of the coin, you shouldn't allow these difficult sales times to influence your decision of these networking sites because they still won't help. Most of these networking sites are simply an out-sourcing of maintaining accurate contact lists. I doubt that you're in one of those industries where your clients and suppliers change contact information with any degree of regularity. And the ones that do probably become useless to you anyway, or keep you informed on their own.
Not to mention, in difficult times, these networking sites experience the same difficulties.
You seem to worry much about losing your privacy. Most social networking sites have rather extensive privacy settings, so you get to select in detail what should be revealed and to whom.
The problem of course then is that managing these privacy settings can be quite tricky, if you don't have a clear picture of what knobs you have available to turn.
Here is a rather recent and extensive walk-through of the most central privacy settings Facebook offers:
http://www.allfacebook.com/2009/02/facebook-privacy/
Oops, dawned on me that's just his surname, so I googled his whole name (Mr. Whoopass) and got 951,000 hits. This link is proof that we have access to much of his personal information, including links to his girlfriend, WhiteTrash. http://people.paltalk.com/people/users/Mr%20WhoopAss/index.wmt
Wait... so you're afraid to post your resume online?
Who cares what your name is and where you work? The Yellow Pages are more invasive. They give your home address and name.
When you meet someone at an informal function do you keep you name and place of employment secret as well? Just what exactly are you afraid someone would do with this information?
When you send out a resume do you just list "'Company A', 'Company B', and 'Company C'" on your empoyment history? Or do you write it out and then black it all out with a marker like a top secret intelligence report?
Stop waffling and start getting noticed online. I've gotten numerous job interviews that I didn't even apply for because people were reading forums and thought I sounded competant and knowledgable. In fact so far I've never needed to even apply for a job.
If the only people who know about you work in your server room that's as far as your reputation extends. If they google your name which would you rather them find: Nothing or an insightful blog on proper network security procedures and a list of glowing praise from your superiors and coworkers?
You are your name. That's your brand. Sell it! Make it famous!
*ASKED* for one? ;-)
If anything, the fact that you do not get unsolicited job offers from random LinkedIn users speaks good about their "lets' be a bit more careful whom we show your real e-mail" attitude.
Paul B.
since I know that just about every moron that has 'Vice President' or sits on the 'Executive Team' is already on LinkedIn and has no clue about why they should be trying to protect their identity
Here's a question to you Mr_Whoopass, why should they be trying to protect their identity, and by that I mean what you mean, which is making sure no one knows that someone named like you works at the place you work. It sounds as if we were talking about dangers that everyone is aware of to the point it's not necessary to mention them. Well I don't know what dangers we're talking about, so do tell me what's the worst that could happen.
Also, are you sure it was sceptic your mother taught you to be? It sounds to me like we left mere reasonable scepticism a long time ago.
You just got troll'd!
As an IT Administrator, your users are going to be increasingly using such things as Facebook, Myspace, Gmail, Linked-In etc. Can you afford to be left behind and not know what is going on in your environments? You'd be stupid to think you could.
If "Linked-In" was any good, they would PAY YOU for your information --and if you had decent parents, it would make for a more obvious decision to quickly run away from their offer.
You might have less opportunities at your disposal, but at least the folks who consider you aren't "control freaks" (which means they are less likely to kill your organs with on-the-job stress that your wife doesn't get paid for).
Don't listen to the kids! Privacy Does Matter.
Past a certain stage of your career, its no longer what you know, but rather whom you know.
It's more of a professional site , catering to Engineers, VP's , etc, people that can recommend other people, and have something against that recommendation can stand.
For IT people, places like facebook, and myspace are the place to go, since their careers are still in the entry-level phase.
I used to be on linkedin, but got tired of duplicating information that is already in my CV and on my website. Then linkedin has a way of nudging you towards filling in ever more stuff (previous employers et cetera), if I remember correctly perhaps even with some daft reward system. It has both free and paid-for services, and I very soon ran into the limits of the free service. Many of the establish-a-link e-mails I received felt tedious and some people like to farm links like, well, link farms. But first and foremost these days I wish to control my footprint on the web, especially regarding the type of information that linkedin requires. Hence I withdrew. It may well be that if I were unemployed or simply looking for another job linkedin could be useful. To me the uncertainty in the rewards and the cost of playing are too large.
Most jobs are found through networking and friends. Only the worst, lowes-end jobs are in the paper. That's plain fact. I've started over a few times, and I'm not interested in having to do it again.
I dunno if LinkedIn is the best place to grow your networking, but it's an avenue. If you're careful with it, I think it could be a valuable tool. I haven't yet had to put it to the test, and I hope I don't have to any time soon. But it's something that you need to build while you have a job, and not wait until you're already out of work.
I agree with another poster--of the networking social sites out there, Linked In appears to be the only one that has career value.
--
$tar -xvf
Link-in with whom it may make sense, professionally only (Linkedin = mostly professional social network, vs. Facebook, Twitter, Socialedian, FriendFeed, Myspace, etc.) but definitely do NOT link with coworkers - it would make no sense (although I work in a company where almost all office employees have linked w/each other, to the point that no one can handle the internal "social noise").
== With enough Will Power, one could move mountains. With enough Brains, one would just leave them where they are ==
I heart facebook & linkedin. Used to be hard to find high-value debtors once they left the country, now linkedin tells me where they are and who they work for. I work in Melbourne, and every week I lovate people in Istanbul, Dubai, Honh Kong, LA, Brussels....once facebook or linkedin gives me a bunch of info to start with, the rest is easy. Like other posters have noted, some people cannot afford not to have a presence on these sites. Works for me...KA-CHING
There are successful people on LinkedIn. There's also an army of annoying losers, called "LIONs", trolling for friend requests. These are mostly consultants and marketeers trying to use LinkedIn to spam. They get really annoyed if you click "I don't know this person", because a few of those actions turns off their ability to spam.
LinkedIn has a overreaching EULA like Facebook tried, but that's less of an issue because one can't upload much to LinkedIn.
I'd be skeptical of someone, especially in IT, who has no online presence. I believe it is good to build up a brand around your name on the internet. You should be in control of what potential future employers see when they Google you. It is better for you to be in the top spot for your name then someone else talking about you, or something with the same name.
When I first joined the internet, I asked my parents if I could have a website on Geocities. They said no. I didn't listen and went behind their back to create it. I didn't have any info besides my first name, so there was no real harm (and I was smart enough not to meet up alone with random strangers, not that I was ever propositioned).
In 2001 I bought a domain named after me and blogged on it (although, it took years for me to admit it was a blog, since those had a bad stigma attached :) ). More recently I've posted the occasional technical entry. Because of this I've been cold called (well, e-mailed) from major companies asking if I want to interview.
It is 2009, nearly everyone has some sort of online presence now. It is unlikely you'll be targeted just for having your name out there. It is much more likely bad things will happen when a company you deal with is hacked and your information is stolen that way. Plus, you can use your presence as a defense. If I wasn't the top result on Google for my name, people might think I was an anti-semite author.
Andrew Hitchcock
In a word, yes, you're being excessively paranoid. To be sure, there are bits of information you don't publicize. but I don't think your name and where you work, just by themselves, meet that criteria unless you're in the CIA or something. Your social, your credit card numbers, address, home phone number, and all that, sure. Keep those to yourself. I don't understand why your name and where you work is such a great secret. I think you vastly overestimate the value of knowing the John Doe works for Regional Restaurant Chain.
It's rare that I say this in a security context, but loosen up a little. :)
I actually have the opposite problem: my first and last name combination is so common that I doubt I actually appear anywhere in the first 50 pages of Google Results. Adding my middle name gets nothing. It's only when you add my university that you start getting hits that are me.
I used to think this was a cute benefit. However, with more and more employers doing searches, and my work being all about the web, I realized that having no results related to me could actually be negative. While I don't go out search for them, this insight has caused me to be much more lenient towards any site that is recommended to me, such as LinkedIn, or even an account on a career/job site. I still keep them fairly sparse, but it's better that I have something to point to ("No, that's some other FirstName RyoShin, I'm FirstName M. RyoShin, and THIS is my account on that site") to help ease any confusion.
I'm not gaining any privacy by doing this, but I don't think I'm losing any, either. Furthermore, I am gaining recognition and a firm reputation.
* Loss of privacy.
Yes, but in general you shouldn't share information on facebook, twitter, you blog, website or anywhere else online that you don't want everybody else in the world to know about you. :))...
That's as simple as it gets... Now really is your full name something you don't want to share with everybody else?
Also it's okay to be critical about what pictures you accept being associated to on facebook... And it's okay to censor your blog for comments you don't want people posting on it...
Personally, I've linked my slashdot account to my website, on which my name, address, email and phone number can be found. And so to the extent possible I try to only post stuff that I'd stand by (yes, sometimes I'll stand by for some bad comments too
And if I absolutely must say something I don't want put my name on, then I'll consider if I really ought to post it anyway, and I must AC is always an option.
It's a lot like real life.
It that a metaphor people on slashdot understand? How about a car analogy. :) )
(Sorry, couldn't help but wondering
I have found Linked-In to be an excellent tool as a professional. It allows me to keep track of former colleagues and is proving to be invaluable now since I was recently laid off due to downsizing. Linked-in is geared towards professional contacts. It is not a regular social networking site. Most of my former colleagues are on it and it's great to see where everyone is working. It has features like specifying your current job status and leaving recommendations for people.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
Consider this: your name, address and who you work for are hardly personal, private information (in most cases, at least). The first two anybody can find by opening the phone book. The last probably isn't instantly available to J. Random Passerby but generally isn't something you keep too private. I'd guess most of your friends know where you work, as does anybody they talk to about you. So I'm personally not too concerned about that information being on places like Facebook, Linkedin and the like. I actually put it up there myself so somebody else doesn't impersonate me or get mistaken for me (or if they do, I can point whoever's making the mistake at my page and point out that their mistake wasn't for my lack of having the correct entry up there).
Now, I'm not going to put details of my personal life up on those sites. It's strictly name, address, current employer, and a pointer to my Web site and resume. More than that, is not those social-networking sites are for as far as I'm concerned.
With a name like "Mr. Whoopass", I'd hope you're not using your Slashdot account for anything serious. That being said, I'd go ahead and create a LinkedIn account with your real name and a separate email account, so that you could have two persona, one professional and one personal.
Frankly, I wish I'd have thought of creating this separation myself, which is why I'm posting this anonymously. I have a Slashdot account, but the email address that it's linked to gives a huge clue as to my real identity.
Since you're an IT professional, I'm sure you can find some potential issue with it, but unless you're in a very influential position, I seriously doubt that people would be overly interested in the fact that "J. Random IT Guy" is the same person who posts to Slashdot as "Mr. Whoopass."
I created a Facebook account solely because somebody with the same name as I already had one, and people were assuming his profile was mine. So by creating a minimal profile on that social networking site, I took better control over my identity.
Linkedin has definite professional benefits, allows you to maintain limited contact with former co-workers, people who you might later find working in the same city as you've just moved to, or the firm where you are thinking of applying for a job.
If you refuse to voluntarily publish positive information about yourself, what will potential employers find? If nothing at all, they may tend to assume the worst, or at least assume you have no notable skills, hobbies, friends or publications.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Alot of time when going through resumes, if we try to Google the person, do a usenet lookup or other such things and can't find them anywhere, to us (when evaluating resumes), it means you are lying on your resume or have very little work experience. Mainly because people in IT use the internet day in and day out to communicate, ask the community how to do something and so on.
If you aren't communicating, it doesn't tell me that you just aren't communicating, it tells me you have little experience. And in a sense, because you aren't using this resource for what it is for, it is somewhat true. Start posting questions in forums, and creating an online identity. Some online identity is better than NONE.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
I use LinkedIn in the same way that I would keep a business card that someone gives me. However, the advantages of LinkedIn are:
There are probably more. If I was forced to drop Facebook or LinkedIn, I'd drop Facebook as LinkedIn is significantly more useful to me.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I'd create an account on each one of those sites. Whip it up so it looks kind of professional, but not that you're a stiff. List some favorite movies, books, and whatnot so you seem human. Put one of those stupid apps like lolcat or something.
I'd suggest making a page on at least Facebook (that seems to be the biggy these days, MySpace is for preteens and music bands. I haven't heard of LinkedIn before today). The reason being is because ANYONE can create a page, and that could mean someone makes a page of you. It could be your friends, making a stupid joke, or it could be some e-stalker. They could list a few tidbits of your real information, and now all of a sudden this page looks like its yours. By owning the page you'll eliminate that chance, though of course on Facebook if someone else posts a naughty picture of you everyone can still see it if your friends' pictures are unrestricted.
Having some sort of online presence is a great way to control (or at least influence) the image about you online. There's a heap of stuff on google about personal brand management. This one looked like it had a lot of relevant points regarding why you should consider this to be important: http://www.bruceclay.com/blog/archives/2008/04/building_personal_brand.html
My business: Farstrider Studios.
Basic information such as name, address, phone number, spouse's name, employer and so on are (usually) publicly available and trivial to find, e.g. from the electoral roll. I can't see any point in hiding them and personally I make no attempt - they're right there on my web page.
Having used online employment agencies, my CV is also pretty much public information and I have put that on my web page as well. I've found at least one permanent job and a contract as a result.
It may still be prudent not to broadcast your birthdate and mother's maiden name because they're unfortunately sometimes used as security questions, but it's barely worth it because they're pretty easy to discover as well. Maybe it just gives a false sense of security, in fact.
It's possibly still worth making some effort to conceal email addresses from spambots, but that battle is pretty much lost as well.
Bank account details are on every cheque you write (and every electronic payment) so any security based on criminals not knowing them is shaky at best. They're not really secret. Credit card numbers (and even the CVV) are pretty easily read by any waiter or shopkeeper.
My point is, a lot of personal information people think is private or obscure isn't really hard to find at all. It's safest to assume it's all known and concentrate on other security measures (encryption, effective passwords...) for the important stuff.
Phil McKerracher
When I google myself, the first reference to my name is in the early '80s, in the SF-LOVERS mailing list. I have a pretty high profile, online, and I haven't found it to be a problem. In fact it's probably better that people looking for me don't think I'm an exotic photographer in San Francisco (though I dare say he's got a more interesting life than I do... I have to admit envying the other Peter da Silva). I'm also occasionally mistaken for Dan Silva (creator of Deluxe Paint) and another James da Silva (creator of Amanda).
These opt-in social networks are self-fulfilling prophecies. The more you fret about them, the more they will matter to low-grade HR goons.
LinkedIn contains only enough information to obscure the difference between a competent worker and a job-hopping nincompoop, and a six-hour barrage of interviews will weed the latter out eventually anyway. If you're in the first category, why would you let these other people ride on your good name? (And if you're in the second category ... good luck with that.)
No, your surest bets as both an employer and an employee remain:
1. Recruiters and/or recruitment exercises
2. Personal applications
3. Personal referrals
Do you see a recruiter passing you over because a web search reveals you have fewer than 10 "livejournal friends"? Then why would you obsess over LinkedIn, FaceBook, MySpace, blah blah? News flash: The internet isn't real life. Two phone calls, to your last two resume listings respectively, will take an HR man four minutes to complete and will steer your name to the interview docket or the trash can.
Because if you are, your fears are well-founded. OTOH, my public pages on linkedin, facebook, etc. don't say "Thad Zurich" on them, and no, I'm not going to tell you what they do say.
Privacy is not important and it's a myth that you ever had it. Your identity is not important. If it gets stolen, you can make a new one. In the meantime, you're just being another antisocial geek who didn't learn the value of networking.
Several of my friends don't seem to understand that it is inappropriate to provide someone's private Email address to anybody without their consent in advance.
That's the bottom line here: an Email that says, "Invitation to connect on LinkedIn" really means "Some idiot gave us your Email address, and we will pester you until you give us more information."
It's just as bad as an E-greeting card, or "click to Email this article." STOP DOING IT.
I quit my job a couple of years ago to start a software consultancy. I signed up for Linked-in and added all my co-workers from the previous company. I did not put any more work into it than this. Few months later I got a very lucrative consulting contract through it.
I am not sure what the downside of putting my resume out there for all to see is. I cannot think of any. The upside is certainly very clear to me.
The only time I value my privacy online is when I am dishing out my honest opinion on a subject that might offend some people. Potential employers included. Most other times I do not care if people find out my name, where I work and what I do for a living.
The truth is, what can be googled about you will play a role if you want a new job.
My job is basically being a CIO/CTO type for a segment of a F100 company. In my experience, every person that comes to meet with with me, salesperson, interviewee, or consultant has googled me and done some research on who I am. There's plenty out there.
LinkedIn shows that you do actually work the field and have not faked your resume. LinkedIn is also helpful since many people circulate open jobs and resumes through the networks.
Recruiters and HR people will google you.
I don't tend to google people for work, excepting for interviews. What I'm looking for it to get a sense of the personality. Because without a good personality, even the most skill person can become a liability to a team.
IMHO, a technology professional that is invisible to a dedicated search is actively trying to hide.
My advice is to have a limited public presence on the net. Enough that if someone is looking for you, they see you appear on the net and that see that Mr. Whoopass is a real person and different than Mr. Wayne Whoopass, serial killer. LinkedIn is good for this, since serial killers don't visit LinkedIn.
All it would take is a simple vanity domain with a couple pages to establish an identity.
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
You're a commodity. You try to maximize it's value by making it perceived as valuable. Linked in shows you can get along with others and that you're well respected by your peers. A professional reputation must be known or it has no value. Decide if you want to be anonymous or respected. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
I feel so social.
For a long time I was reluctant to sign-in to LinkedIn and last year I decided to try it. And I really like it, because it is not time-consuming while being very useful.
I like LinkedIn because it provides me with a way to stay in touch with former coworkers and other business contacts without having to send the keep-alive "wazzup" email every once in a while. Also I don't have to let people know when I change jobs; it's all in my profile, and those interested will get the info. For me LinkedIn is also a great database of skilled people, which I peruse whenever there is a position to fill at my job.
To have a valuable database, I have a rule: I do not accept invitations from people I would not vouch for, and I never send invitations unless someone is outstanding. Some of my LinkedIn contacts have thousands of contacts. I have less than fifty.
As for Facebook or Myspace, I am not interested. I don't feel the need to get in touch with people I lost contact with, and I don't want them to contact me either. If I lose contact with someone, there is a reason. Lack of interest, nothing to discuss, nothing to share... Also I don't have enough time to spend with my actual friends -- why would I want "virtual friends"?
lucm, indeed.
Privacy dies only if you allow it to. (Or if you know some really nasty people who put your entire private life on the web. Oh well, they say the taste of revenge is sweet...)
Well I don't know about LinkedIn, but I'm quite a heavy user of Facebook, using my real name. But if I Google that full name, I get ... nothing (well nothing that actually relates to me).
Facebook, and any other social networking site worth a damn, have privacy options. They are quite good actually. Use them and max them out. One of those is not to expose your details to external search providers (which I actually think is turned to 'don't allow' by default on FB).
What I do have is a chat/gaming/IRC alias though that I also use extensively on less privacy-conscious sites. And if I google THAT, I get hundreds of hits. But I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be easy to tie that alias to my real name, since I don't mix and match using those two pieces of ID.
A web presence connected me with one founder who hired me as first technical employee in his startup (which was fun until we went out of business) and a big corporation with a six figure bonus + relocation package (but no interesting work to go with it).
I get a lot of traffic from recruiters from my linkedin account, some of which I'd entertain if I was looking for a job.
Once you reach the limits of your real-life social network, you really need another marketting strategy for career growth. While not ideal (there's a lot of noise) linkedin is worth the hassle.
Quit being paranoid, unless you have a really obscure name you should be okay. Here is my name http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=scott+Loomis&aq=f, apparently I make a mean wind flute.
Oh, I also have a linked in account but you won't find me on the linked in results page that is displayed on those search results. You have control to a point over what is publicly searchable.
It's really hard to sell yourself as a web saavy internet professional without a website or at the minimum online contact info. You'll be viewed as a dinosaur programmer if you don't.
IMO: unless you plan never to quit or be fired, you have to show prospective employers something. If the loss of privacy really bothers you, then withhold your street address and last name until you get a serious offer for a phone interview.
Camping on quad since 1996.
That is a simple fact - people are interested in themselves, not you. However, to get a job, contract, finance... you need to know lots of people. The more people you are linked to, the more successful you will be in business.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
If I'm looking to hire somebody for a mid- or senior-level IT position and Googling his name pulls up nothing related to his work or industry, I'm going to have serious doubts. Like "What the hell has this guy been doing for his career? Just plugging away heads down? or actively participating and pushing the industry forward?"
Having no trace of your real identity online in 2009, IMHO, raises serious questions about how serious you are about your career.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
There are 2 kinds of jobs out there: Those that want you linked in, and those that don't.
Those that don't want you linked in are the ones that research a candidate by the myspace profile and decide not to hire based on that.
Those that want you linked in are progressive companies that understand the web, people, and what is going on.
Right now, there are more non-linked companies. So if you want the most options right now, don't link in. If you link in now, you can never un-link due to things like Facebook's TOS and Google.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
The Yellow Pages are more invasive. They give your home address and name.
That's assuming you have a name like "Dominos Pizza" or "Allstate Insurance".
For the rest of us with people names, we're generally more concerned about the White Pages.
I'm a big tall mofo.
My past jobs have come from either a technical recruiter spotting my resume, or a direct application by me. I'm very skeptical of sites like Linked In. It's difficult to measure how much they help, and all people give as evidence is anecdotes.
I am proud of myself for having *reduced* my online profile in recent years. When I was younger, I posted some embarrassing material online that was linked to my real name. It still is out there, but it's buried under many other results, and you often need my middle initial or personal email address to find it. Now when you search on my "first_name last_name", you will mostly see *other* people named "first_name last_name". And I don't have an especially common last name. You have to do a fair bit of digging to find my embarrassing remarks now. Thank goodness.
Privacy is real. Privacy is valuable. If other people want to give up theirs, by all means, go ahead. But I'm keeping (and restoring) mine.
Facebook, MySpace, etc are fads which will die and be replaced by new fads. Look at the recent story about the site Ma.gnolia losing all it's data in a crash. This is the one big weakness of the Internet.
I get dozens of offers via LinkedIn all the time for interviews. I'm simply not looking right now, but if I was, I might look at a few of them. Most don't really interest me (not in my city, not quite a good match, probably won't pay enough).
However, the real value of LinkedIn is not having a email box full of job offers I am really not interested in, but tracking all the people who do know me. These people know my work and what I am capable of. If I do look for a new position, and I am asked for references, I have up to date email addresses for the references I want to use. Not only that, but the first thing I'd do is ask my contacts if there are any positions in their company. Having someone in the company who can vouch for you gives you an excellent leg up on other interviewees. Even better if someone I know is now in position to hire. In that case, I could probably show up to the interview drunk and naked and still have a good shot at the job.
If you expect that LinkedIn will deposit hundreds of high paying jobs into your inbox while you sit back and relax, you need not apply. However, if you generally leave a good impression with your coworkers, then you probably want to keep in contact with them just in case you decide that you need to look for a new opportunity.
I've found that when I registered with LinkedIn, several dozen contacts I use to have, but have lost track of suddenly appeared. I was able to once again get in contact with all of these people.
As for Facebook and Myspace... Maybe if I was applying to a job which requires me to appear drunk in embarrassing situations, they could do some good. However, I am not looking for a position as a bass guitarist in a rock band, so they're out of the question. What I've found is if you don't lead a very exciting life, you might as well forget about Facebook and Myspace.
There is some merit to LinkedIn. Keeping in touch with old business contacts, making new ones, whatever. It's pretty profession and despite a recruiter or two being an annoyance overall no biggie. Good place to showcase your experience. Facebook IMHO has no real business use. It's too difficult to separate business and personal. Your inviting people to judge you based on your high school buddy with a profile pic you'd rather your boss not see. There's really no good way to handle Facebook. Dual profiles are discouraged too. As a result my profile for years has been pretty empty, no friends and privacy settings turned up. Most people in your network are viewable provided you hookup your work address. Good way to look in on the facebook world without a care.
I know a lot of people are REALLY afraid of putting their information online. Companies store it in a database and build a 'profile' of you etc and all that but .. so what?
Is it paranoia or ego like they think people will actually find their life interesting to seek them out or what?
It could be the dynamics of academia versus industry, but I've found Facebook a lot more useful to me professionally. It does have, as you mention, a lot of the fluff and blending of work/personal life. But for the same reason it also more consistently gets updated, and points to unplanned collaboration opportunities.
Most of my colleagues' LinkedIn pages, if they exist at all, are basically like a business card: bare listing of contact info, and maybe employment history. They don't tend to keep them very up to date, either, or remember to ever log in. Many do log in regularly to Facebook, though, because it's part of their social lives. So they'll tend to do things like join groups indicating their current interests, and update their statuses with a mix of irrelevant-to-me personal life things ("X is picking up the kids from trombone lessons") and relevant-to-me things ("X just saw an interesting talk from Y at Conference On Foo"). For the people who use Twitter, that also gives me kind of similar information.
I can see how LinkedIn would be more useful if I ever did more formal hiring, consultant searching, or job application, though.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
You can join my linked in network. I'm currently a few contacts away from 7000 members.
Alex Birch
Hi AC.
Glad to know you're either too lazy to sign in or ... too afraid to use your account.
The internet is a massive identity kaleidoscope machine. "Boys can't be boys" anymore. All it takes is someone who went a bit too far, and someone else whose Vendetta setting is on 11, and then his professional life is over.
Years of brand reputation can sink in hours. But unlike leaving small-town montana, the whole *world* knows *forever*.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm in exactly the same situation - IT for some automobile dealerships. Sales are down, etc. I've also made zero attempt to make an online presence for myself and try to convince family to shy away from social networking sites. My friends have facebook accounts that I don't see, I don't really feel left out because I already know what happens in their life.
Networking is important, probably a necessary evil but I just don't feel the need - no matter how bad things get - to make a Linked In / Facebook / Twitter / theladders / whatever profile.
I think Scott McNealy said it best: "You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it."
I think avoiding quality business-oriented sites like LinkedIn is almost certainly a mistake.
It reminds me of a friend of mine with a great new product idea. He could easily have gotten the investment he needed, but he insisted on extreme secrecy. The result was that he missed the boat, and a parallel thinker made millions off the same idea.
Is there a serious employer who is not aware how easy LinkedIn is to manipulate? The "Recommendation" is just one example: in 9 out of 10 cases, when X writes a recommendation of Y, Y returns the favour - often the same day!
And the number of people in the area of expertise, that are linked to you, is meaningless as well: set up a "Group", have people join, and then, just by the way, invite them in your network as well.
Still, makes more sense than Facebook, which is better called Abusebook.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
If you know my real name you can find out quite a few things about me as a result of things I have done for work without resorting to LinkedIn (where I do have an account). Publishing papers puts your name on the net and so do various other activities that have to be done with a real name.
I publish things I do not mind being public forever and will probably add more to my LinkedIn profile soon.
I think your right on the mark.... do NOT use any social networking sites.
They are nothing but a leak of personal data and on line stalking tools.
1311393600 - Back to Black
If you think your name, address, employment history, etc. are secret, you are living in a fantasy world. If you've ever used a job board, or emailed a resume, the details of your entire work history are probably out there too. LinkedIn serves a useful purpose in that maintains the "link" between associates, even when they change jobs or email addresses. There are LinkedIn junkies who try to link to everyone they possibly can. Others only link to "real" associates. I do the latter, and find it quite useful.
No, what actually happened is that they deleted those last two sentences I quoted above, having to do with expiration. This set people up in arms, because they seemed to believe that suddenly FaceBook was claiming rights to their materials permanently, even after they quit. It caused such an uproar that FaceBook put those two sentence back.
But actually, those people were fooling themselves. FaceBook was actually doing them a favor by removing those two sentences, because they were misleading. They actually did not say anything of substance at all. They said that their license to use the material would expire, but they don't say when. (They might imply it, but they don't SAY it.) It says IF you remove your material, it does not say WHEN you remove your material. The only mention of "when" is in the preceding paragraph, which says they have a "perpetual" right to your material. The language is clear. And by removing those two sentences, they would prevent users from getting the WRONG idea. That is, the idea that their information is not permanently in the hands of FaceBook, for whatever purposes they desire. The fact is that it is. By signing up in the first place, you have given FaceBook a perputual license to your material. Period.
As much as I hate this kind of legalese, they DO make their terms of use available up front, and they DO make it very clear that you are giving up permanent rights to any material you may put on FaceBook. If I were a judge, and I were facing a suit over this, I would berate FaceBook for putting in those two bullshit sentences, which only serve to mislead the public. And I would have some serious words with the FaceBook people over their deceptive practices. But ultimately, I would say "You read the terms of use, you read that you were giving permanent rights to FaceBook, and you agreed to the terms. You have no basis for a suit now."
the subject may seem to be about LinkedIn, although I think it is more about privacy, and LinkedIn was just an example (as Facebook also)...
Generally it matters more how much information you put up on the internet (about yourself). Privacy exists as much as you are concerned for it.
Of course too much information can turn against you (impersonation, phishing, social engineering, etc). Technology is the wave you have to catch, because if you stay behind you'll find yourself later all alone on the island called "non existent".
$god = null;
if($god) echo 'I believe!';
Unless you are an off-the-grid cash-economy false-ID type a la Claire Wolf outsider (which you are not given your job), then you have nothing to lose and everything to gain from being on linkedin.
This is not to say you can't shoot yourself in the foot with inappropriate postings on myspace of facebook, but a drooling cretin can tell what should and should not go up there. But linkedin is a resume, letters of recommendation and a way to contact folks with warm introductions. No harm, no foul.
and I don't trust it yet.
I love gmail but I can see that it is possibly the most insidious Social Networking tool ever created. So I still don't use my real details on it.
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
Just as long as you never put in the real dates of your birthday or high school attended or graduation years for example. These are the "security" questions used to "prove" identities. This data held in security-challenged social sites that are continually being hacked. This allows thieves to track your other "security" data from your home town records to respond correctly to questions when stealing your identity.
Have you not noticed the tens of thousands of people having their identities, bank accounts and credit ratings destroyed? This is one of those issues that is not a problem until you get a call from a collection agency that has been authorized to repossess the Pontiac you purchased from a car dealer in Yonkers. Later the police trace the car to the apartment you rented in Burbank using your Drivers License for ID, and where you had Amazon ship all the electronics you purchased on all those credit cards you opened. Few commercial businessess are set up to completely clear up your terminally ruined credit history. Which, by the way, is reviewed when you are considered for any top-level job. Just a thought.
It is LOSE, not LOOSE people!!! Who the hell taught you kindergarten English?
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Most of the people that I have known that have "Linked In" accounts, are complete moral scumbags. If you have to know someone, or be related to get a job, you're probably not competent to actually have that job. While I know that this is the way that the world really works, I still can't condone it. Thus I left IT when I was 33 and started my own business so I get to make the rules, and don't have to hob know with assholes.
None of these "social networking" sites are of any use for those of us who are asocial. Are there any networking sites for people who do not have (nor want) friends?
I haven't heard of anyone's career destroyed because of stuff that got posted on LinkedIn.
do not put personal information on your public networking site for business. Instead, keep it business there and instead if you want a personal networking site for friends to see, create one and do not place your name or photo on the site, and make it private, to approve who can look at it. I have seperate business, that has my real name, a personal private myspace account does not, and a public politics account that does not. That keeps everything seperated and my private and political sites not accessible or tied to my name.
When I was laid off Dec. 31 I immediately announced my freelance availability on LinkedIn, Facebook, and a private journalists' email list I'm on. I've been busy ever since. LinkedIn has gotten me the most/best leads, but I've gotten some nice local ones through Facebook and a few from colleagues through the journo list.
The most interesting project I've landed came from a LinkedIn contact in Austin, TX, who hooked me up with someone in Raleigh, NC, who was doing a health care IT startup and needed writing/PR/marketing help. So I have a nice freelance account doing socially useful work for good people, all arranged over the Internet (although we've met F2F since).
Don't knock networking. It's the best way to get jobs you might actually like, with people you might like -- and who might like YOU. :)
For what it's worth, I've been a software developer for 12 years and I have no expectations that any online data is private - whether it be by snooping, debugging, or automation. The only private information is that which is not provided.
If your "online persona" is "private" and you want to keep it that way, then continue to turn your back on social networking.
Having said that, most of my personal contacts are in the IT field AND are well connected. The stereotypically socially-awkward, cube loving, loner computer geek is hard to find these days.
If you are in a business that relies on word-of-mouth, business networking, etc, Internet Social Networking is a must. If you don't need contact with the outside world to run your business - then keep yourself safe.
Do you HAVE to give up anonymity in order to participate in social networking? That is kinda the point, isn't it?
-CF
I agree with what you are saying. It's not that you're paranoid, it's that in your gut you know that connections are important, but our society contradicts your natural tendency to small, close knit groups. If you skip the social networking deal, draw out a graph of your 60 closest friends (or your closest and then the people they are close to... you do know your friends parents don't you? Your dry-cleaners name? etc) you should be able to build up a group of people who complement each other.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
LOL!
I love your type, putting on airs and strutting around saying that you wouldn't work for me because you feel my online presence is inadequate.
I have the money that you want. Dance Monkey Boy, dance!
You can say that you weren't forced and you can convince yourself that you really wanted to dance, on your own time.
Bitch! Thy name is Owned!
And yet, despite my 18 years of senior level IT experience and tens of thousands of usenet and other online posts, I have successfully and wisely managed to maintain complete anonymity. You will not ever find my real name online.
I'm actually quite pleased about this as I would not like to work for anyone like you that bases their hiring decisions on whether or not they can find me with The Google. There are much better and more reliable ways of vetting resumes.
P.S. If I find that you work for me, you're fired.
Anyone who wants to find me can, easily. So far, that's been more an advantage than a disadvantage. My manager's on LI; so's the next manager above that in my chain, and the VP above that. And they're all on my contacts list. When I applied for this job, I don't think it hurt me at all that they could quickly see that several of the staff knew me already. (As it happens, the guy making the hiring pitch already knew this, but that was blind luck.) I went to check this, and had a ping from a former coworker. Good deal; now I have one more sysadmin on my list of sysadmins I can contact if I hear about job openings...
I've had my own domains since the early 90s, and kept the contact information accurate. I've had my name and address up on the web since we were running NCSA httpd on an Amiga UNIX box, and so far, it's been all benefits, no harm. People who search for me on DejaNews (oh, are they calling it Google Groups now?) can find ~40,000 posts.
So people know what they're getting into if they want to offer me a job, and that means my time isn't wasted and theirs isn't either. Great.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Linked In is mined by Headhunters for positions. I get an unsolicited offer every week from there. They are good jobs too, I'm just not in the market atm. The rest are for vanity. I have no use for them.
I also prefer to be under the radar. But it's useful for posting my resume(of sorts) and remembering all the people I meet in IT. It's a small world in IT, and the people at the top will eventually meet or work with each other again. It's not a maybe, but a certainty. So I find it useful.
As the saying goes, the only truly secure computer is one unplugged and placed in a closet. With true security and safety comes a serious downside - you are not a known quantity to anybody else online.
When I applied for this job, I don't think it hurt me at all that they could quickly see that several of the staff knew me already.
People hiring their friends for positions could lead to cronyism. That's one reason it could hurt you, depending on the company's selection procedures.
Not because its a must have service, but i signed up to promote my business. And found, real old colleagues. When you all alone in business, that matters. When you've got no job, and previous experience is all that matter to employers, and perphaps you lie, thats matters. Shall i contact them, some, a cheery reply from that graphic designer girl, i never got to date. A fellow ex-director who lost his job to the big bosses fickle decision. Another guy, didn't know well, One my hardiest working colleagues whos at Google now. Google could buy me out, or crush me like a insect, want a friend there? Identity theft thats the worry. I'd be flattered if someone would want to be me, but the police better be good on it. But my banks, and suppliers have pretty good security checks. But i like it recorded in the world, that i was around, doing my bit.
A presentation by Nathan Hamiel & Shawn Moyer at DEFCON 2008 suggested that people who don't play are easier to spoof, as colleagues and family members may be tricked into accepting an imposter as the real you. They suggest creating a minimal presence, if not actually using the sites actively http://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-16/dc16-presentations/defcon-16-hamiel-moyer.pdf
My best friend was recruited to Canada from Europe through LinkedIn. So hell yea you want to be there!
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne
What most people forget to do is to separate their identities.
It doesn't just mean to have a nick on slashdot that is NOT your real name but to never EVER associate it with your real name EVER. ANYWHERE. AT ALL
I am known on the internet by my real name, but NOT by the combo of my real name and my secret identity! Hence no fears of having my real name known. A simple google tells me that all the occurences of my real name are solid and highly acceptable, like discussions on support forums for opensource software.
No links to any endless rants about natalie portman and hot grits.
Back in the mid-90ies I was on FidoNet. FidoNet required you to use your real name but also put quite a few legal restrictions on what can be done with content outside of Fido. Someone at Google thought it would be smart to copy over all FidoBoards into Google Groups. Aside from that there is probably more than one big legal problem to that in more than one country, I try not to care to much about it.
That aside, the most prominent hits are from my well kept and good looking personal website, so I really don't mind.
Bottom line:
I'd stear clear from social networking, as you hand over controll over your data and stats to someone else. Plus on those your presentation is usually bland or crappy. Or both. I would rely on an own website to present myself.
IMPORTANT: Please take notice that I am a web professional and know the importance of a good looking and well built website and also know how to build or at least fake one. If you can't judge and/or make a good website and have no acredited professional to do it for your then do yourself a favour and stick with business cards and stationary made with a decent template.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
And my address and even my phone number are out there for anyone to see. It's caused me no problems whatever, so far.
I think the paranoia is just foolishness and a waste of energy.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
With LinkedIn you can get away with pretty much just providing the same information that's on your CV - that is enough to have a decent profile. If you've submitted your CV to any of the major job search sites out there (such as monster), then all that information on your CV is already out there and available to the public.
As for connections, most of them tend to be "person I worked with" and could be determined by cross-referencing CVs - something you can easily do if you have a database of employment info (again, like the large job search sites or some of the larger employment agencies).
Also, LinkedIn is very much a professional oriented site - in there you're only expected to let people know what's your expertise and job history and maybe keep in contact with people with whom you have a professional relationship: nobody is expecting you to share stories about your puppy, your latest drug and alcohol fueled wild party or how you found true love.
The other sites are a lot more "personal" and you're expected to be sharing information you might think is private. Tread carefully with those.
I can trace paths to many world leaders, classical music stars (Placido Domingo for example is an astounding 2 degrees only from me, as is Dmitri Shostakovich now that I think about it) and several Nobel Prize laureates.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Besides echoing earlier comments about keeping in touch with colleagues from previous employers, one feature of Linked In I find helpful is with research for jobs and companies. A head hunter pinged me about an interesting-sounding position at a local university. I went to the school's website and did not find it in their listings. I saw that one of my former colleagues was at a similar level at that school, so I queried him about the position. His reply was that there was no such position open - and he confirmed it with the VP supposedly hiring for that job. So, having the Linked In connections provides a great deal of added support to winnow out the garbage from recruitment firms.
I think, therefore I am - Rene Descartes; I yam what I yam, an' that's what I yam - Popeye
As someone who is equally as paranoid about loosing ones identity, I take very careful precautions. For the most part, I feel that LinkedIn has been (somewhat) good for me, in that it has allowed me to 'network' with top subject-matter experts in the field, corporate executives, many of whom are presidents, or C-level executives of some prestigious companies.
I agree with the one gent - you get what you put into it. If you put in little, you receive little. If you put in quite a bit, you will receive more than what you put in, rather than when you put in little.
I don't provide my work or home address, nor do I provide my personal email address. My telephone is a cellular telephone number, and the area in which I live is a generalized metro region. I don't use a real picture for my icon, and instead use an iconic figure from a famous comic book (think Heath Ledger's character's arch-rival from a very popular movie). I keep things light, but not too light that people don't take me seriously. I have fun without going into the expense of others, and respect those who ask me questions. I answer questions as best as possible, and those that I don't recognize, I simply state "Sorry, I don't know you."
It's true. Not everyone has good intentions when connecting with you; many are looking for their own personal agendas, to make more contacts, to get funding for a project - whatever the case may be, I assure you, you are being used for their endeavors, not yours....and you have to take that into consideration, too.
On LinkedIn, not everyone is your friend, either. You will encounter your current, and most undoubtedly, your past 'enemies'. Some will try and slander you, some will say absolutely - nothing. You have to realize that LinkedIn does not play to favorites, but YOU have control as to how much you want people to know you, about you, of you, and why they should know you.
So far, I have made quite a bit of great contacts, many of whom are influential people within my industry, both current and future.
If you have issues with LinkedIn, and cannot come to grips with exposing a little bit of yourself, then go with your gut instinct, and DO NOT join or expose any more of yourself than you feel comfortable doing. If, on the other hand, you want to progress further with your career, you will need to expose yourself - a littl' bit - to let others see who you really are, then by all means...go for it. Honestly, you have nothing to loose. ;)
If all else fails, use an alias such as 'Hans Gruber' or 'Michael Clayton'. Keep your profile as real as possible, but limit your exposure to the outside. I know that this is contrary to what LinkedIn states, and may be a direct violation of their online EULA, but....how are they going to know? If you feel that you must use an alias, use one that's NOT a famous name. ;)
I hope that you (and perhaps others) have benefited from this posting. Do what you must, and do what you feel is comfortable - with you. No one is pushing you to join, nor are people going to be nasty to you right off the bat. If being cautious is your prerogative, then so be it, proceed cautiously. But....if the sole purpose of moving forward cautiously is because you have issues with people knowing the 'real you', then you're joining for the wrong reasons, and should not join.
Hopefully, all of this makes sense to you, and to others, who want to know more about LinkedIn.
Good luck!
This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Everything You wrote is jack-shit wrong. I doubt you are neutral in this discussion, because such banter is always the product of multiple personalities in harmonious disorder or preponderance to allow one to elevate a false reality using the other's privilege of fame induction (mod points)
All incorporated companies receive certain acknowledgments to capacity by their employees having certifications and not experience itself; government contracting privileges and the like are not a measure of science but only the delusion of the governing administration. There is this big country out near Saudi Arabia where a bunch of mindless drones walk around a giant cube called the "Kabba." Let me know what certifications you need to have the privilege to accomplish such and look at all the employment benefits you gain for accompanying fellow 'tards on said occupational hazards.
LinedIn is nothing more than a shitty cgi on the anti-social trend of dissociative reasoning that persons registering at random websites would build a better "online" presence. This is more distracting from crucial research and study than it is a positive function. Gizmo Project and Skype are proper services, while LinkedIn and Facebook are nothing more than NSA and IRS endorsements to replaceme local estate and community bulletin boards and town halls. Get this formulaic 1980's success tools out of the marketplace and throw them in the same trashbag as NeoPets.
People get their person hired by having extra-marital or interpersonal relations; either by coffee-shop mishap's or The Pillow(sm). You, like many others, are in a vaporware economy that is in constant blacklist by the state; it's not a free market, but a privileged black market by default that everything is unlawful until granted "shadow" access. A good way to test this is looking at yourself as a free man; who am I, would I hire myself, why do I not want to pay myself a living wage so early at myself's new company, and because the economy is going so bad selling carbon dioxide why am I protesting myself conemplating a vast lay-off of non-productive personell? The reason why regulation exists is because the government enters an equitable relationship (direct competition) to the people and in the attempt to regulate and compete at the same time it tries desperately to protect its equity a
Do you know I?
Do you know he?
I loose it when people don't know the langwitch.
Every problem has a solution that is simple, easy and wrong. Selling our Liberty for a little Security is a much too de
You revealed you exist by posting.
Linkedin is useful because it makes the job of a recruiter easier. Be sure to include prominanetly any keywords they might search for that you shod score on.
sudo ergo sum
In the The 6th Day, he protected his double-identity.
In Eraser, he protected someone's identity.
In True Lies, he chased around terrorists (and a bed-wetting domestic), using his double-identity.
In Twins, he found his...double-identity.
Ahhhlabbbllahhh Blahhhhh'nnnngggggg!
I strongly suggest that all participants, upon leaving Slashdot for another website, created their double-identity and hide behind it: a strawman is good to have, and I have the robe and wizard hat to enforce that rite.
I use LinkedIn, as another mentions, to keep loosely connected to former coworkers, friends, etc. I can't think of one encounter where it directly affected my employment -- but it may be a resource in the future. You certainly can choose not to share certain information about yourself, it's a risk we all take when we use the Internet.
Most of us that work in the IT industry know very well the pendulum swing of IT HeadHunters and corporations that use them. When the market is good, they'll kiss your behind to get you a job -- on the reverse, they won't even speak with you.
What I'm finding lately is a lot of so-called HeadHunters are using LinkedIn to send unsolicited job offers and other inquiries. One of them went so far as to send email to both my personal and professional address; another, brazenly called my professional phone line (which isn't published anywhere).
Does anyone else find this unscrupulous and annoying?
I work for one of the top executive search companies in the world and LinkedIn is an indispensable tool.
In the past, headhunting was very much about who you knew, the company's own database, thrashing through newsfeeds, list of associations, etc., and a lot of cold calling. LinkedIn has, in a very short time, topped them all.
LinkedIn provides a headhunter with a database that updates itself and that constantly grows without much effort (each connection who adds a connection "expands" my network). It also gives direct access to top executives and allows the headhunter to read the executive's profile before speaking with him/her.
Through the eyes of the user, indeed, the entry price is a little loss of privacy, but I believe the gains outweigh the losses. A LinkedIn user enters the radar screen of headhunters, allows you to stay in touch with former colleagues and friends, and, who knows?!, lands you a job.
You cannot maintain your privacy in the age of tech we live in. If I want to know about you, all I need is a very small amount of information (your name and city of residence will do) and about $50 and I can get WAY more information than would exist on LinkedIn (think social security numbers, bank account numbers, everything.) It's even legal. LinkedIn is primarily designed as "Facebook for Business" and I can't say that it's a bad idea. Keeping in touch with former bosses/coworkers has its benefits for sure.
Basically; all this information is already available to anyone who cares enough to pay under a benjamin for it, so why keep it secret when it can potentially help you? Privacy and secret information is essentially not possible with the amount of information sharing that goes on these days.
I'm not sure what it means to "lovate" people, but I'm sure it violates the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
You don't have to live in it, but by simply stating your professional resume, some trusted professional contacts as well as several recommendations visible in your profile would help you network with head hunters when and if times get though (which are right now.)
As for facebook, it depends. I keep one with discrete pics of me and my family, mostly to keep in touch with friends and family oversea. And it is linked to my linkedin profile. Plus I have a hi5 strictly for family.
I also have a myspace account, but that one will never, ever be linked to my professional career, at least not on purpose.
Fact is, it was through linkedin that I've been able to network with the main head hunter I'm using now as well as establish relations with other professionals and join several developer groups that I was not aware of until now. So the experience has been quite positive.
If you keep your linkedin and facebook presence discrete and with class, it should not hurt. Mind you, you should never accept invites from "Hi I'm Wendy and I'm horny lol, u want me tonite?", and you should never have a trace of facebook or whatever on your online PROFESSIONAL presence if it has pics of you in all types of questionable debauchery (not that it is a bad thing, but you know what I mean you dawg.)
I know this is a geek site, but I would have thought this was obvious even for the socially awkward folks who congregate here.. LinkedIn for work/contracts, Facebook for pussy. They have both served me well...
I am a IT Professional and an avid LinkedIn user.
Sites like LinkedIn are for individuals that want to be noticed and be found. It is not only a great great site for networking but also a place where you can have your online vita with references built in.
You just need to learn to use these social sites without disclosing any sensitive personal information or confidential information about your projects.
On sites you do for fun, simply don't use your real name. All your real friends have cute/clever codenames / nicknames for you anyway, right?
Create a few web pages under your real name (esp. if you have a relatively unique one), and make sure it comes up above anything else. That way, you control what prospective employers might dig up on you through casual searching. My web pages are just a few things about my kids and a few interesting hobbies I've pursued over the decades... come to think if it, they pretty much look like my resume, except with pictures and links to more detail.
I've never used LinkedIn, so no comment there. Several larger corps seem to be setting up their own internal LinkedIn equivalents, though, so exercising those might be a good and relatively safe way to move around and network within your company.
I think most of my job leads have come in through monster.com and other, more traditional, less social networky sites. The nice thing is that I can maintain profiles there, but control whether it pops up or not in employer searches depending on whether I'm looking for work.
I don't really believe in "computer augmented" social networking, though... call me old-school, but I don't really see much point to Facebook and the ilk beyond entertainment value. They're great for keeping tabs on people you already know, but meeting someone in meatspace and physically shaking their hand and talking about random things for a few minutes gets you way more "interpersonal connectivity points" than having some degree of friend-of-a-friend connectedness or other paper stats.
I have little interest in the social aspect, but am now using LinkedIn/Facebook (not MySpace, yet) for business.
...and I know enough to remember that potential clients will be looking - so I'm keeping it as professionally personable as possible.
I've got a corporate video production company. I need to get my work in front of as many people as possible. As an independent with a specialty, I'm hoping people will have the interest to take a look - and hoping further that my work plants a seed for a need.
Considering the marketing approach, and translating that to IT - maybe a consultation with a creative mind to a) get people to look, and 2) plant the idea that your specialty is what they need... perhaps some offers will come your way. Creativity in your approach would imply creativity in your work - which should be attractive to an employer/client.
Otherwise, I see it as running the numbers - like any job hunting scenario. Make sure your contacts know you're in need of work. Someone getting your credentials from someone they know and trust is much more effective than a cold call.
Hope that helps. Best of luck!
Not because I put much useful information about me on there but because I can find so many people. I'm a recruiter, and I just love it when people put their resumes up. I wish everyone were on LinkedIn. It makes my job so much easier.
I've been dragged kicking and screaming into Facebook. I'm still very concerned about the amount and quality of information people post to these sites. My approach is to be less than accurate. For example, I don't use my legal name or actual date of birth or real city.... I don't post any critical information like addresses, phone numbers... I encountered a bit of trouble at first because people I know wondered who this person was asking to be their friend. I found that a quick note in the introduction message solved that in a way that was not farm able through the web interface. What I found is that I communicate with these people more in FB than in email or over the phone. Perhaps it's a sign of the next generation of interpersonal communication. The down side is that people can't find be in FB by searching for me. I'm comfortable with that. My next goal is to write a FB app, not because I want to write the next killer app but because I'll learn more about what those applications can find out about me.
When I was in college the one professor who taught me the most, and especially the most that has helped my career, told me "publish, publish, publish!"
I didn't stay in academia, I've never had a peer-reviewed article in a major paper, but I've taken his advice to heart and it's served me well. I get my name out there as much as I can.
Back in the '90s, Ed Catmull, of Pixar fame, emailed me out of the blue on the basis of a discussion I participated in on comp.graphics.algorithms, and I went to work there for a while. That's my most dramatic episode of making a good contact online, but it's far from the only one.
I've had recruiters who actually knew what I was looking for contact me (rather than the usual annoyance of keyword matching on Dice), and they already knew what it would take to get me to move (One email started something like "I see you just bought a house in wine country, I can't imagine moving here is attractive, but the client told me to contact you anyway", which got my attention, because he cared enough to find out who I was. Even though "wine country" is a bit of a stretch... I suppose he was being nice).
I don't really like the social networking sites, and I rarely send invites because I feel like that's something of an imposition, but I gladly receive them because things that raise my visibility have, so far, been good for my career and my life.
I do not disagree with anything in your post, but I wanted to say, it sucks.
I don't do facebook, or myspace, or linkedin, or any of those kinds of social networking web sites. I don't have long lost friends I'm waiting to get in touch with, and I don't need the virtual thrill of racking up a high count of "friends" or business contacts on some web site.
Christ! I thought I left behind all that popularity contest bullshit behind in high school!?!? I don't want to be hired based on how popular I am on some damn web site. I want to be judged based on my qualifications and a face-to-face interview.
Like I said, I'm sure you're right, but I think it sucks. Now I have to go get on Linkedin and go farm some awesome friends so I can appear popular to potential employers. It makes me feel dirty.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I think you place too much value on being obscure. I can be honest in my opinions on line without embarrassing clients, it's very easy to keep your mouth shut rather than air dirty laundry of your clients anonymously.
Why bother
Good job, however you are correct, one needs to stay somewhat visible, I would suggest a pseudo personality
I was getting 2-3 calls a week from HR agents and everyone I asked where they got my contact details said: jeez, uh, I guess LinkedIn.
Mind you, my phone wasn't listed there. They would look-up the company name, call the main number and get the receptionist to find me
I couldn't find where to restrict my details the way I wanted so I cancelled my account. Haven't got a single call ever since.
Honestly, after a certain point in one's career there is a greater chance of continuing career advancement through networking than there is using a job recruiting agency. It is for this reason that LinkedIn is invaluable.
For example, in early 2008 I found out that my business unit was going to have a massive (50%) RIF so I immediately contacted several people in my LinkedIn network. Within the 2 weeks immediately following, I had 8 interviews at 5 different companies. This was, obviously, without using a recruiter who would have had to screen me, reformat my resume (and probably hack it to death), etc. Instead, the people that interviewed me already had some experience with me on a professional level and were aware of the quality of work I perform.
The trick to using LinkedIn (or LI as it's known) is to have people in your network that you've actually interacted with. Although those who call themselves LIONs (LinkedIn Open Networkers) would disagree, this actually gives your network value since in situations where you need to call upon someone for a favor they are already comfortable working with you and are thus more likely to help you out.
Privacy is dead only when everyone in the public is on the same service and flooding the private repository into their public function that renders them in such interdependancy on this trademark and copyright records. Making use in private records in court predominantly will render the public dormant and according to statute law will readjust the foundation to that issue of stock and liquidate the estate of every holder for a controlling interest made known by the new flag and regiment.
Get off your rape horse and look at the facts; you are as idolatrous as your father Abraham the devil. Get back into Noah's arch with the rest of your primates you damned dirty ape.
I literally can't remember the last time I saw any useful responses to an "Ask Slashdot" question. People post interesting and thoughtful questions looking for help - often questions I've wondered about, too. And I click on the link, hoping to get some useful information. But all I ever see are retards who go off on some random tangent that has nothing whatsoever to do with the question. And I keep my browsing level set at 2, so it's not just AC's and trolls.
Moderators need to use the "Irrelevant" tag a LOT more. A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT more. So people can read the comments and actually find (gasp!) something "relevant" to the post.
And yes, technically this post isn't directly relevant to the question either, but it's meta-relevant.
Wow we all have the same beliefs and all. It's like highschool chess-club all over again oh wow! We can help eachother get jobs and stuff: I need the Den of Evil quest can yous helps me? I went on myspace,but Tom wouldn't help so I kicked him out of my BFF list. k-bye fags.
just admit that you're more familiar with Dolph Lungren than Kevin Bacon?
It sure looks that way...
>So, I did it, but it's about as sincere as spooning with a hooker.
I feel ya, bro.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I wonder if I should loosen up on the paranoia a bit and start networking with some of these folks in case of the all too common layoff scenario that seems to be happening lately. What do other folks here think about this?
I here think there's no need to worry about the layoff scenario and paranoia. Until the machines take over IT administrators will always be needed. Keep on truckin', you'll be fine.
LinkedIn is a granfalloon. Most of the people I really like and trust haven't bothered with LinkedIn, while most of the people who have invited me to link up with them have been people I know only marginally. Very few of them really know what I'm good at, and I don't know much about them, except that I worked with them a while.
That said, one thing that convinced me LinkedIn was worth a little bit of my time is that almost none of the people in my close association is able to help me find work in my area of expertise. The ones I have worked with who have bothered to invite me to link up with them at least might be convinced to pass my resume on. My wife just secured her current job through a LinkedIn connection. (OTOH, she has been utterly miserable since starting the job, but that's because of a particular personality that she didn't meet during the interviews, but with whom she has had to work closely.)
Of course, one disappointing thing about LinkedIn is that it doesn't have Friends, Foes, and Freaks. There are a very few people whom I never want to work with again, and when they show up as potential contacts, I politely ignore them.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
I signed up for facebook in college because all my friends were on it and I would be missing out on stuff otherwise.
If paranoia is more important than staying in touch with your friends, then I invite you and your antisocial self to kindly go live under a rock.
And if your friends don't have enough brains to not post (or not take!) those beer bong photos, then you probably need new friends anyway
It's good to be skeptical or even paranoid on the net. I say that as a former professional paranoid.
Linked in has a reasonable default set of privacy which you can raise or lower. Since it's about resumes and professional networking, the default is a little more open than sensible folks would use one rather more personal FaceBook profiles, and that is ok.
Linked In also has a more transparent business model on how they are monetizing your free service. They are on the give 99% free to build a community for which 1% will pay for advanced access. Anyone can buy access to fuller search results and to ability to send job inquiries - to those who indicate interest in such - to folks without being introduced. You don't have to build a better game to spam peoples friends, just buy recruiters level access. That's transparent, and in my interest - If I need a job later, I will want active hiring managers not in my network yet to be able to find me.
I wouldn't use LinkedIn for purely social networking, but I don't think I want to give professional references on dating-and-music sites like FaceBook or MySpace either.
Bill
OK, I'll agree that identity theft is a potential cost. You seem to think the benefits are negligible while dismissing non-techies (at least senior ones) as "morons".
Evidence
Do you have any hard evidence that active networkers in general suffer more identity theft than non networkers? Anything specific to LinkedIn? Based on your post, I'd expect to see a long line of "morons" at the Social Security office and on soup lines ... maybe I missed the 60 Minutes episode on that.
I'd been meaning to register to Linked In for a while but just hadn't bothered.
I'm teaching English in China at the moment so am only interested in parttime freelance work.
After reading this story on Slashdot I registered two days ago. I gave it my MSN contact list and had it invite those already on Linked In to link to me.
Today I received a job offer from the company I worked for before I left the UK. They seemed to think I was back in the UK, I set them straight and told them I was only available for part time work as a freelancer.
They've said this is fine and asked me my rates and to figure out how I'd access the system from here.
For me that wins points for Linked In.
Facebook I would never use for career advancement though. I set it private apart from for friends. I even refuse facebook invites from my Students.