Hypocrites... they're allowed to link to the website, in their letter that they're mass-mailing out to people, but no one else can do in the things they write? How's that fair??
I totally agree with you; Apple should be stopped from killing babies and using their blood as ink to write letters threatening to frame people for murder and put them in the chair if they don't stop even mouthing the word "iphone"... bastards.
Not offtopic - vmware's a very successful, closed source solution, that runs on linux. There is now a free version, but before that it was sold. It's probably the best tool in its class, and really bought virtualisation forward and out into the public. It inserts binary blobs into your kernel ala nvidia. Yet it's probably the most accepted closed-source-on-linux software out there, yet so forgotten about during these discussions. Inconvenient to have an example of closed-source-on-linux that... worked?
"before you attack my rant against marketing as stupid and misguided..."
No, you're an idiot, spam's what makes us great! No, the fact is that spam (online, post, or cold calling, is all the same) isn't bad because it's marketing, it's bad because it's intrusive, you have to take time away from the stuff you have/want to do, to deal with it. The same's true if they're after your money, trying to "enlighten you" to their religion, or plain prank call you. But advertising funded broadcasts/publications/websites? You don't have to tune in or look at them. If you don't like the way it's being paid for, you shouldn't want to anyway. Billboards? You don't have to stop and look, just keep going. Product placement? Is not even a distinct advert, they just use a branded item instead of a generic prop written into the script. It's really not worth the time or energy to get a bug up ya butt about it. As long as it's not trying to force itself on you (ie, spam).
No I didn't know that, I, from reading slashdot, was under the impression that nvidia had this unique thing called "security flaw" that doesn't exist in the OSS world, but now you're telling me that what actually matters is whether it gets fixed, compiled, and rolled out, or fixed, rolled out, then compiled?
I think what all this really comes down to is something called "being a control freak". How many people here have even looked at 1% of the source that's behind a standard distribution? Would you have gone through the nvidia driver source code, found, and repaired the bug? Yeah I know, it's whether you would do if you had the source, it's that you can't because you don't... just don't like being told "no, you can't have that", it's unfair, and goddamnit, you're gonna sulk, and keep sulking all over the place, loudly, until you get your own way.
OMG!!! They could have been the one's who put it there deliberately in the first place!!! We all know that nvidia works with the government... they've probably put backdoors in the chipsets too! Damn I gonna rip out my nvidia graphics cards and not put them in until I have personally verified each line of code, and every single transister on the chip schematics, and every single transistor and wire and line of code that controls the machines that make them... THEN I'll know I'm safe. It's a good job I have as much experience with GPU design as nvidia and ati, as that means I'll definitely find whatever's there.
Okay now you're just making stuff up - what's all this "against me" business? I've never sided with the riaa, I do not believe what they're doing is right, and I do not believe that the clampdown on fairuse is right, and I have even outright said that.
"who would allow "artists" to control what we do in the privacy of our own homes"
Wow, you got that from what I said... huh... lets look at it this way, heard of GPL? Well, this is like programmers saying "it's cool for you to do stuff with our code that copyright law doesn't grant you. We grant you these [conditional] rights". How exactly is that any different from an artist going "it's cool for you to mediashift our works despite the fact that copyright law doesn't grant you the right, we will"?
You don't have a legal right to come into my house, but that doesn't mean I can't invite you in, does it? Does that mean that I'm controlling you?
Laws exist to protect peoples rights, not to enforce that they use them. But no, you go ahead and get all wrapped up in this "you're either with me, or against me", but when you realise that you want to change the way things are in reality, here's a tip: you have to find reality first.
There are many cases where oss does seem to be providing us with better software, many many cases, no argument there. But when you start getting more specialised, what matters is experience with the specialised target, not brute force manpower.
"Nobody can keep their codebases "bug free""
Too right, so wouldn't you want the people with the most relevent experience working on something, to reduce the likelyhood of bugs, and to recognise the things that cause bugs as quickly as possible when they turn up?
Should you be allowed to force people to do things against their will, through threat of violence and intimidation? Are you really asking me that?
"Not that software and human rights are equally important of course"
Are you saying that nvidia not giving you something that they wrote themselves, is in some way comparable, to the previously mentioned violence and intimidation to force people into work? Because dude, not only are they not on the same page, they're not even in the same book.
"but your reasoning is not logical"
You made some irrelevant question about slavery, then use it in a sentence about software, as if you were trying to make some comparison, and then question my logic?!!
Noooo, missed my point - there may be those hundreds of developers that work on the kernel, but it took the very select few, that had the proper experience and knowledge of the code and design, to track it down and fix it. The team of kernel developers could have been 5000, or it could have been 5. Sometimes, it's not the hands and the eyes, it's the right hands and the right eyes. Experience is very important in a complex codebase.
I got hit by the file corruption bug in that's existed in recent 2.6 kernels due to race condition. Was burried pretty deep, took the experts a while to figure out what was going on. I had the source code, so did thousands of other people. The bug still caused lost files. The nvidia driver's a pretty complex piece of code, having to handle many slight differences and implement workarounds for many different cards and chipsets. Nvidia have paid people on the job, with the relevant experience. What makes people think that the oss community can do a better job than nvidia's own people, when they can't even keep their own codebases bugfree? Bugs happen, and with really complex code, it takes people with the most experience available to find and resolve the problem, properly.
"But forcing sync on every change can still be a performance problem, I think"
Yep, but you wouldn't need to, the OS can keep it in memory, syncing to disk at low intervals, before suspend (something you'd probably wanna do anything, and means it's already on disk when you recheck drm on resume), and before freeing the pages after the program exits. Is just treated like a swap file, specific to that memory range, that's persistent (unlike anonymous swap, which is freed from swap once the page is unmapped from the address space). If the app gets suspended due to drm fail, the pages are frozen, and the OS can take its time writing them out (then freeing the pages for other processes if memory is needed, and read back in when the app resumes - pretty normal behaviour)
My story's already similar enough. Three very young kids, one young parent taken, by cancer not console, but the effect's the same, and the damage after 20 years still very visible, so this "you might better understand" business is really misplaced. I know your reaction comes from misunderstanding, which is why I didn't jump on the insult or defensive wagon, but tried to explain, incidentally leading me exactly to where making jokes was to stop me from being.
I'm not sure how it began, but one of the contestants had to leave because he was starting to feel ill, and commented on how the others were starting to look pretty bad too. The woman who died left, (IIRC) drove home, which is where she died. I guess it wasn't very funny for most of it!
I doubt anything will be made public (although may have to be if it ends up in court), although a hunt maybe in a few days on p2p networks might turn up someone who recorded and is sharing it.
Nah, you can leave the VM to do it these days. Something like, the OS writes any dirty pages to a backing store (file rather than anonymous) when they don't get used for a length of time. If the program resumes quickly, it's all still in memory. If you stay suspended for a while, pages will start being written to disk. If the program gets terminated, the remaining pages can be flushed quicker to disk. The memory can then be reclaimed if it needs to be, and you swap back in as you need on resume. The application code and data itself will already be memory mapped to the binary, so nothing extra required here. The OS can be told not to swap pages out during normal execution unless resources are low, as with anonymous swap. Depending on the application, size of data etc, and how much of that data gets changed regularly, you'd wanna tweak writeout patterns.
EROS was a research OS that applied this kind of persistence across the board. If you ran a DRM prog on top of EROS, everything I described above would basically happen automatically, without needing to add any code to the app, as part of the way the OS Just Does Things(tm).
Personally I try stay away from MDMA anyway, the effects on long term memory became noticable to me during a couple of periods when I stopped using the stuff, and it's especially noticable when programming complex systems when I've found I need to tap into long term memory to augment working memory when pure working memory isn't big enough. I need that to continue earning a living... old enough to be responsible now *sulk*
Yeah... I didn't want to just write it off as untrue, figured there's probably reasons out there not to, so just gave it a question mark for time being.
"So I guess he was only off by a factor of 7.5"
Seems like a good reason to me! I'm currently inclined to believe that it may not be as simple as my explanation, or even that at all, but there's bound to be an effect. Even if the chlorine does react with other things before it can reach your gut, it's still reacting with things! Chemical reactions have a tendancy to have consequences, and in the body, they're mostly extremely unpredictable due to the huge number of variables, that may show up in only 1 in 1000 people... but if you're that 1, you'd wanna know. I guess you could experiment yourself; a week with scrubbed water, and a week with straight. No matter what anyone says, if it improves things you for, that's gotta be a good thing.
Actually it was just another play on the 'wii' bit... seriously, you can't actually pass out from too much irony ya know.
"Then you moan and cry about the moderation you got from your sorry ass comment?"
Troll, flamebait, overrated, I would have been fine with. But off topic? It's just not true.
"I hope when a moment of extreme sorrow comes into your life"
Been there, done that. Everyone deals with things in different ways dude, and death, being one of the hardest things to deal with, introduces even wider ways of being dealt with than most other things we experience. You can't spend your whole life crying, you get nowhere, and may as well not be alive yourself. So you laugh, about some funny word or whatever, it doesn't matter, and hope it does make you insensitive, at least a little more than you'd usually be, because you can't cope if you soak up every little bad thing that happens.
It doesn't make you an arsehole, it just means you're trying to survive the best you can in a world where shit happens.
You'll understand as you get older. Or you'll get crushed by the weight of the world.
Slashdot Mirror
Hypocrites... they're allowed to link to the website, in their letter that they're mass-mailing out to people, but no one else can do in the things they write? How's that fair??
If they really want to keep the "cool" look, they should make the iPhone smoke cigarettes... everyone knows smoking makes you cool.
I totally agree with you; Apple should be stopped from killing babies and using their blood as ink to write letters threatening to frame people for murder and put them in the chair if they don't stop even mouthing the word "iphone"... bastards.
Not offtopic - vmware's a very successful, closed source solution, that runs on linux. There is now a free version, but before that it was sold. It's probably the best tool in its class, and really bought virtualisation forward and out into the public. It inserts binary blobs into your kernel ala nvidia. Yet it's probably the most accepted closed-source-on-linux software out there, yet so forgotten about during these discussions. Inconvenient to have an example of closed-source-on-linux that... worked?
Does it not prove that it can?
"before you attack my rant against marketing as stupid and misguided..."
No, you're an idiot, spam's what makes us great! No, the fact is that spam (online, post, or cold calling, is all the same) isn't bad because it's marketing, it's bad because it's intrusive, you have to take time away from the stuff you have/want to do, to deal with it. The same's true if they're after your money, trying to "enlighten you" to their religion, or plain prank call you. But advertising funded broadcasts/publications/websites? You don't have to tune in or look at them. If you don't like the way it's being paid for, you shouldn't want to anyway. Billboards? You don't have to stop and look, just keep going. Product placement? Is not even a distinct advert, they just use a branded item instead of a generic prop written into the script. It's really not worth the time or energy to get a bug up ya butt about it. As long as it's not trying to force itself on you (ie, spam).
No I didn't know that, I, from reading slashdot, was under the impression that nvidia had this unique thing called "security flaw" that doesn't exist in the OSS world, but now you're telling me that what actually matters is whether it gets fixed, compiled, and rolled out, or fixed, rolled out, then compiled?
I think what all this really comes down to is something called "being a control freak". How many people here have even looked at 1% of the source that's behind a standard distribution? Would you have gone through the nvidia driver source code, found, and repaired the bug? Yeah I know, it's whether you would do if you had the source, it's that you can't because you don't... just don't like being told "no, you can't have that", it's unfair, and goddamnit, you're gonna sulk, and keep sulking all over the place, loudly, until you get your own way.
Wow. What a grown up place this is.
OMG!!! They could have been the one's who put it there deliberately in the first place!!! We all know that nvidia works with the government... they've probably put backdoors in the chipsets too! Damn I gonna rip out my nvidia graphics cards and not put them in until I have personally verified each line of code, and every single transister on the chip schematics, and every single transistor and wire and line of code that controls the machines that make them... THEN I'll know I'm safe. It's a good job I have as much experience with GPU design as nvidia and ati, as that means I'll definitely find whatever's there.
Okay now you're just making stuff up - what's all this "against me" business? I've never sided with the riaa, I do not believe what they're doing is right, and I do not believe that the clampdown on fairuse is right, and I have even outright said that.
"who would allow "artists" to control what we do in the privacy of our own homes"
Wow, you got that from what I said... huh... lets look at it this way, heard of GPL? Well, this is like programmers saying "it's cool for you to do stuff with our code that copyright law doesn't grant you. We grant you these [conditional] rights". How exactly is that any different from an artist going "it's cool for you to mediashift our works despite the fact that copyright law doesn't grant you the right, we will"?
You don't have a legal right to come into my house, but that doesn't mean I can't invite you in, does it? Does that mean that I'm controlling you?
Laws exist to protect peoples rights, not to enforce that they use them. But no, you go ahead and get all wrapped up in this "you're either with me, or against me", but when you realise that you want to change the way things are in reality, here's a tip: you have to find reality first.
err, if the things didn't sell, they wouldn't have money for marketing campaigns.
Well, if you're unaware of health risks associated with something, then you're unaware that you're trusted your health to them.
"Would we be having this discussion if she died from a burst bladder?"
Oh there'd be SO more much ammo for jokes then *lol*
There are many cases where oss does seem to be providing us with better software, many many cases, no argument there. But when you start getting more specialised, what matters is experience with the specialised target, not brute force manpower.
"Nobody can keep their codebases "bug free""
Too right, so wouldn't you want the people with the most relevent experience working on something, to reduce the likelyhood of bugs, and to recognise the things that cause bugs as quickly as possible when they turn up?
"am I "free" to have slaves?"
Should you be allowed to force people to do things against their will, through threat of violence and intimidation? Are you really asking me that?
"Not that software and human rights are equally important of course"
Are you saying that nvidia not giving you something that they wrote themselves, is in some way comparable, to the previously mentioned violence and intimidation to force people into work? Because dude, not only are they not on the same page, they're not even in the same book.
"but your reasoning is not logical"
You made some irrelevant question about slavery, then use it in a sentence about software, as if you were trying to make some comparison, and then question my logic?!!
Wow.
Well... if they fixed it, they must have had the relevent experience.
Noooo, missed my point - there may be those hundreds of developers that work on the kernel, but it took the very select few, that had the proper experience and knowledge of the code and design, to track it down and fix it. The team of kernel developers could have been 5000, or it could have been 5. Sometimes, it's not the hands and the eyes, it's the right hands and the right eyes. Experience is very important in a complex codebase.
It's a good job there's never been any security flaws in any open source software, otherwise that'd make your argument look really stupid!
I can choose between open and close source drivers for nvidia... feels pretty free to me.
I can write software and choose to release it open or closed source... that feels pretty free to me.
Erm... nvidia can too.
"Freedom to disagree" anyone? Oh no... it's YOUR way only, that's freedom!
Vmware's always done pretty well...
I got hit by the file corruption bug in that's existed in recent 2.6 kernels due to race condition. Was burried pretty deep, took the experts a while to figure out what was going on. I had the source code, so did thousands of other people. The bug still caused lost files. The nvidia driver's a pretty complex piece of code, having to handle many slight differences and implement workarounds for many different cards and chipsets. Nvidia have paid people on the job, with the relevant experience. What makes people think that the oss community can do a better job than nvidia's own people, when they can't even keep their own codebases bugfree? Bugs happen, and with really complex code, it takes people with the most experience available to find and resolve the problem, properly.
"But forcing sync on every change can still be a performance problem, I think"
Yep, but you wouldn't need to, the OS can keep it in memory, syncing to disk at low intervals, before suspend (something you'd probably wanna do anything, and means it's already on disk when you recheck drm on resume), and before freeing the pages after the program exits. Is just treated like a swap file, specific to that memory range, that's persistent (unlike anonymous swap, which is freed from swap once the page is unmapped from the address space). If the app gets suspended due to drm fail, the pages are frozen, and the OS can take its time writing them out (then freeing the pages for other processes if memory is needed, and read back in when the app resumes - pretty normal behaviour)
My story's already similar enough. Three very young kids, one young parent taken, by cancer not console, but the effect's the same, and the damage after 20 years still very visible, so this "you might better understand" business is really misplaced. I know your reaction comes from misunderstanding, which is why I didn't jump on the insult or defensive wagon, but tried to explain, incidentally leading me exactly to where making jokes was to stop me from being.
I'm not sure how it began, but one of the contestants had to leave because he was starting to feel ill, and commented on how the others were starting to look pretty bad too. The woman who died left, (IIRC) drove home, which is where she died. I guess it wasn't very funny for most of it!
I doubt anything will be made public (although may have to be if it ends up in court), although a hunt maybe in a few days on p2p networks might turn up someone who recorded and is sharing it.
Nah, you can leave the VM to do it these days. Something like, the OS writes any dirty pages to a backing store (file rather than anonymous) when they don't get used for a length of time. If the program resumes quickly, it's all still in memory. If you stay suspended for a while, pages will start being written to disk. If the program gets terminated, the remaining pages can be flushed quicker to disk. The memory can then be reclaimed if it needs to be, and you swap back in as you need on resume. The application code and data itself will already be memory mapped to the binary, so nothing extra required here. The OS can be told not to swap pages out during normal execution unless resources are low, as with anonymous swap. Depending on the application, size of data etc, and how much of that data gets changed regularly, you'd wanna tweak writeout patterns.
EROS was a research OS that applied this kind of persistence across the board. If you ran a DRM prog on top of EROS, everything I described above would basically happen automatically, without needing to add any code to the app, as part of the way the OS Just Does Things(tm).
Personally I try stay away from MDMA anyway, the effects on long term memory became noticable to me during a couple of periods when I stopped using the stuff, and it's especially noticable when programming complex systems when I've found I need to tap into long term memory to augment working memory when pure working memory isn't big enough. I need that to continue earning a living... old enough to be responsible now *sulk*
Yeah... I didn't want to just write it off as untrue, figured there's probably reasons out there not to, so just gave it a question mark for time being.
"So I guess he was only off by a factor of 7.5"
Seems like a good reason to me! I'm currently inclined to believe that it may not be as simple as my explanation, or even that at all, but there's bound to be an effect. Even if the chlorine does react with other things before it can reach your gut, it's still reacting with things! Chemical reactions have a tendancy to have consequences, and in the body, they're mostly extremely unpredictable due to the huge number of variables, that may show up in only 1 in 1000 people... but if you're that 1, you'd wanna know. I guess you could experiment yourself; a week with scrubbed water, and a week with straight. No matter what anyone says, if it improves things you for, that's gotta be a good thing.
What country are you in btw?
"You find this so funny you pissed yourself?"
Actually it was just another play on the 'wii' bit... seriously, you can't actually pass out from too much irony ya know.
"Then you moan and cry about the moderation you got from your sorry ass comment?"
Troll, flamebait, overrated, I would have been fine with. But off topic? It's just not true.
"I hope when a moment of extreme sorrow comes into your life"
Been there, done that. Everyone deals with things in different ways dude, and death, being one of the hardest things to deal with, introduces even wider ways of being dealt with than most other things we experience. You can't spend your whole life crying, you get nowhere, and may as well not be alive yourself. So you laugh, about some funny word or whatever, it doesn't matter, and hope it does make you insensitive, at least a little more than you'd usually be, because you can't cope if you soak up every little bad thing that happens.
It doesn't make you an arsehole, it just means you're trying to survive the best you can in a world where shit happens.
You'll understand as you get older. Or you'll get crushed by the weight of the world.