Slashdot Mirror
Pirate Bay to Purchase Sealand?
paulraps writes "Notorious Swedish file-sharing website The Pirate Bay is planning to buy its own nation in an attempt to get around troublesome international copyright laws. The organization, the world's largest bit torrent tracker, has set its sights on Sealand, a former British naval platform in the North Sea that has been designated a 'micronation' and claims to be outside UK jurisdiction. With a target price of £500m it won't be cheap, but Pirate Bay says contributors will become honorary citizens."
Pirates and the sea! Aye, this be a perfect match if ever there be one.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
I wonder how many copyrights you could buy out for that much money...
256kbit over point to point radio last time I checked.
I think they might need an upgrade to do file sharing.
If they do that, the terrorists would win!
Seems like the axis of evil is getting a new member!
Well, there's £500m down the drain...
WOuldn't this be even more dangerous though? Now, MPAA and RIAA would actually be lobbying for military action against the Sealand nation... Imagine that, sorry our servers are down due to an air strike... Please donate to purchase more airplanes and subs.
Seriously, this whole story is like straight out of a movie (or crummy novel)...
Maybe they should buy Pimlico, it should be cheaper than £500m and all they will need is a passport to it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041737/
There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
Pirate Bay would get cut off in a heart beat.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
At that price surely it would be cheaper to build your own platform and if they truly are pirates it would be much cheaper to buy a pirate ship and take it by force.
I think it's a great idea. I hope the RIAA gets afew canoes and goes out there to rough 'em up. *BURBLE*
I can't wait to sign my john hancock! The one thing I want in the bill of rights is the right to do the dew and eat peanut butter cups
Let each of the 2.5M peers currently on the tracker donate 200 each. Not bad for ensuring your favorite p2p tracker will stay up forever!!!!
The only problem I see right now is that right now the Pirate Bay is operating inside a real country. If they move to sealand, what's to stop the MPAA/RIAA from buying an old Russian Bomber / Diesel Sub / whatever and just destroying the whole platform? Or hiring someone to plant C-4 on the base of hte structure and blowing it up? Further, Sealand only exists because the British have decided it's more trouble than it's worth to just invade it. What if the Brits get pressured into eliminating this grave threat to the international recording industry?
Yeah, they're really going to raise 1 billion USD.
What is internet access like on Sealand?
Assuming Sealand has a trunk comunications line, a country could always cut the line in their own territory.
Seems that it would be cheaper to launch a communications satellite and have a ship in international waters hosting servers...
So, if they're outside the reach of national law, they're also outside the protection of it too correct ?
All theese orginazations that want them shutdown could hire gorillas to raid the "Nation" & take them out the old fashioned way without fear of prosecution couldn't they ?
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
http://www.piratelaws.com/
The **AA will doubtless lobby the UN to send troops in if Piratebay sets up shop there.
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
In the end these guys still tick me off. They act as if they have a plephora of information held back by the almighty dollar and the greedy supercorperations (yeah, as if anyone really torrents non-gaming, non-pornography books) and that we, the public have a right to get anything we want for free as long as no one is willing to pay...ugh. Sorry, I just had a dream of mine cut short by doing some research and finding out for every D20 book you sell, around 10,000 illegal copies are shared (mostly among people who won't even use your ideas). I personally love the idea of people sharing my books and in a perfect world I'd say go for it. Too bad the publishers and artists still want payments/commissions... -___-'
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
Brilliant !
But I do think the MPAA shock troops might be readying to invade
should the sale go through...
Should prove interesting if tourism hits big....
Fire Marshal will have a hell of a time figuring out max capacity on that thing !
End of Line.
Safer using a fraction of that amount to spread the site across the nordic countries + netherlands or some eastern european country.
1) I bet some data centers are bigger than Sealand.
2) Easier to cut Sealand off from the rest of the internet.
We download, we copy, we share and loot
No more DRM me hearties, yo ho
We file swap and upload and don't give a hoot
No more MPAA me hearties, yo ho
Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me
Help a man when he is in trouble and he will remember you when he is in trouble again.
Dude, forget the whole bittorrent part, I'd donate just so I can get citizenship. That'd be a sweet novelty item, a Sealand Passport! Just as long as they don't have laws against dual citizenship that is ;)
After they spend all that money the UK will claim jurisdiction over them anyway. Up 'till now there hasn't been anything on that platform worth a dang so the UK let some crank claim it was a seperate contry.
Waste of money.
No matter where you go, there you are.
If they manage to get a decent network connection to Sealand, they might as well connect a ship in international waters. Cheaper and less controversial.
I, for one, welcome our new pirate saviors.
Read radical news here
With that price, couldn't they do something better with the money?
For that amount of cash they could probably launch a satellite. Now that's an idea -- how about trackers in the sky people can connect to by pointing an antenna to it? Since you'd have to aim at the satellite, it'd be very unlikely that somebody could snoop on the communication, and the precise location of the users could be unknown.
At least, unlike with Sealand, anybody with the right equipment could connect to it, without having to rely on other countries not cutting the connection to it.
This reminds me of the plot to Cryptonomican, by Neal Stephenson. If this really is a micronation, and the pirate file sharing thing works out, I wonder if they will expand to hosting other files for money in return for a promise of absolute privacy, i.e., no court orders to turn files over. I think they would make up the money spent buying the 'country' rather quickly. Of course, their servers would be a target for the NSA and every equivalent hunting for files from terrorist and criminal organizations.
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
The average person using the site won't pay $15 for a DVD at Wal-Mart. Does anyone seriously expect that enough of them will fork over hundreds of dollars to acquire a rusting, burned-out, communicationally-challenged scenic overlook. This whole thing is as humorous as the Pirate Party.
If they do get Sealand they better form one hell of a militia. One rubber raft does not a navy make.
That would be a waste of money. As much as I support piratebay, they are much more secure within Sweden than they ever will be at Sealand.
First, Sealand is not a real country, it is a part of Britain. The fact that some people who are good at manipulating media claims otherwise, doesn't make it so.
Secondly, even if Sealand was a real country, it's not a country any other country needs to maintain relations with. If they find out that they dislike you, they will be perfectly happy to shut down your Internet connection. That the server remains out of their reach is not important. More important is the fact that unless you agree to be e.g. British, you will not have the protection of e.g. British law against service providers who decide to shut you down.
Finally, it's a waste of money. If you really believe Sealand is a country, and that owning it will somehow help you avoiding legalities when hosting torrents, then you should just do the same as the current owner did: occupy it. At this time, there is only one person on Sealand (a security guard). I'm sure the cost of renting a small ship or a helicopter and sufficient crews to fight him will be well below the prize the current "owners" ask for.
The United States, and Germany have found it has no legal status, and that it is part of the United Kingdom, a country who has never given up ownership of the platform.
Surprisingly I'm not a multi-millionare, so I've not looked into it, but I'm betting you could by a tiny island somewhere in the world for a lot less money, and ideally be able to then begin legally moving it to it's own sovereignty. With the added benefit that a single bomb/torpedo wouldn't entirely destroy your country.
Just expect US intervention and maybe invasion of the island. It will not be the first time US goverment applies sanctions against those who don't respct corporations copyrights. After all US are the kings of the world.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Why are pirates and paedos the only ones interested in Sealand ?
- Claim it, and back up the claim with a strong enough economy or military that the international community decides that it's in their best interests to play along.
- Get a strong nation to recognise your claim, and put pressure on other nations to do the same.
Sealand failed the first one; they have no military, and almost no economy, and they haven't tried the second.Being a citizen of somewhere like Vatican City, which is internationally recognised, might be useful. Being a citizen of Sealand isn't; even if they did issue you a passport (the current administration doesn't), you can't use it anywhere. Similarly, infringing UK law on Sealand isn't a good idea. When Sealand caught fire last year, they called out the British fire brigade. I suspect the police have at least as long a reach, and the claim that you are not guilty because you committed the crimes in a nation that is not recognised by the UK government would not hold up in a British court any more than declaring your house to be its own jurisdiction would.
A better bet might be Luxembourg. According to the CIA factbook, the population is just under half a million. The number of registered Slashdot users is about a million. Unlike Sealand, Luxembourg is already recognised as a nation. Monaco, with only 32K people might be an even better bet. Failing that, I suspect that there are a number of third-world countries that would sell a segment of themselves and recognise its independent status in exchange for a few million dollars...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
At current exchange rates, they would need very close to 1 billion dollars to buy Sealand at a price of a little more than 500 million pounds. That would mean that 1 million people would need to donate 1000 dollars each to get the money. I'm not sure they could raise enough cash if all they needed was 1 million to buy it.
Please donate to purchase more airplanes and subs.
You mean we actually get to fire live ammo on the MPAA/RIAA lawyers? Can you repost the account number accepting these donations?
My other OS is the MCP!
They'd better watch out, because in Sealand, they could easily get boarded by Kevin Costner.
... and then they built the supercollider.
I know this is somewhat flamebait but this idea really sounds like hogwash. Its founding tenets are fundamentally flawed. Copyright laws are a good thing when NOT abused. Copyright and patent law, when properly used is designed to protect the small time inventor/innovator with less assets than large corporations. The US and UK Legal Systems allow for rampant abuse and the lawyers ultimately make out well. Patent law in the US is a mess and is being abused by M$. Microsoft patents absurdities: this is abuse. Besides, what if you travel to Sealand, commit piracy and return to the US? I am sure, lawyers, being creative as they are, will find a way to punish you for your misdeads. Whilst I cannot condone RIAA and MPAA tactics, I am also no fan of piracy. One has every right to make money off of their creation. Only when the creators (i.e. the artists) say it's not piracy, it's not piracy.
If what they claim is true, i.e. that they aren't doing anything illegal now, why do they need to escape to anywhere ?
There seems to be an issue with fiber connectivity -- so why not launch a satellite? I mean, while we're on the topic of silly tasks like purchasing nations to support a file sharing website...
One other thing to ponder is how exactly would they transfer the money for a supposedly sovereign country? Being pirates I guess they'll have trunks of gold!!!
Uhmm.. becomming a citizen isn't that easy, well, maybe it is becoming one of Sealand, but I think there are some real legal problems with your own country of becomming one of another... Then ofcourse, how would they take care of the Internetconnection, power... having bought a country doesn't mean that it stops there.. and ofcourse, what would you do if the US would 'invade' Sealand... Then ofcourse you also have to find someone who is willing to connect the country to the internet, which ofcourse can also result in legal problems.. It's a fun idea, but very naive...
I thought their operation was legal under Swedish law, the recent police raid notwithstanding. How come the sudden change of heart?
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
We all know that Disney World is better than Disneyland. What makes you think Sealand going to be any better than Sea World?
No, actually the UK claims it to be inside UK jurisdiction. It was outside UK territorial waters, and the UK then decided to extend its territorial waters further and claim Sealand. K.
I wonder if the ninjas will have anything to say about this?
I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
With that kind of money they can problably buy an old cruise liner or cargo ship and then have a mobile platform that truely lives outside of territorial waters. Sure connectivity is a problem but it is a lot easier to pull up anchor when your host cuts you off and move to a more friendly access point. With a cruiseliner they could actually allow thier citizens to come and visit.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Why could they not just send their own servers into orbit in international space on a satellite and just access it by remote for about the same price? Would the servers technically not be in any nations jurisdiction? Am I borderline retarded? ;)
It's only paranoia if your wrong...
I don't care about any of the rhetoric, or the silly comments. Where do I sign up??? And will we be allowed to carry a card that says we are indeed members of the pirate nation?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
They are already known to use all sorts of pirated stuff... take a look at some of the pirated movies on fta satellites originating from Cuba.... Sure, you'd have to give your dues to Fidel, but so what, it'd be a lot easier than trying to buy an entire nation.
If it is a country, it should have a unique TLD, or not? What about ".sea"?
Or have monthly conferences or paid couriers carrying around giant encrypted disks.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
If you're interested, here's how you can buy your own island.
And if that's not grandiose enough, you could always just build.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
> then you should just do the same as the current owner did: occupy it.
Bush: It has come to my attention that pirates have taken over Sealand. Now I like pirates. Johnny Depp is a good actor. But I also like seals. When a pirates invade Sealand, I have a problem with it. We need to deploy 12 troops to liberate Sealand, and maybe another one or two to crush the pirate insurgency. Now I know that willing will not be easy, but it is won war we cannot afford to lose.
but without the argies.
That's absurd!!!
Why don't they buy their own islands from the United Arab Emirates for about $3 million?!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7051051/
It's even better than buying that Sealand, which has a lot of controversy all around it...
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
They're using paypal for fucks sake. We know that by the time they hit 20K, paypal will freeze the account. If they were serious, they'd have us just slip a $20 in a bottle and drop it in the ocean.
I have an idea how they can raise some of the money to buy SeaLand: they could negotiate a deal to rename the central office building "GoldenPalace".
The Digital Sorceress
Hmmm... so you want satellite dishes to be outlawed? Right, they're suspicious terrorist devices anyway.
500 mil down the sea, literally!
Are they going to use TCP/IP over dolphin carrier?
TCP/IP over Aquatic Mammal carriers, as it is more officially known, is simply an modification of
RFC1149 (A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers).
The above spec has been "embraced and extended" for Aquatic Mammal use; (much) larger packet sizes are supported, as well as a separate optional High Frequency Audio command channel, which is sometimes used for Relay transmission of packets, and the possibility of dynamic packet routing..
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
How do I emigrate?
With that much money you could probably find a small country and buy some of their land.
For example, Palau's GDP was $174 million in 2001 (source).
Pay them 2 years of GDP for a decent island with a bit of infrastructure, provide a few jobs for the local people... now you've got a wonderful tropical island perfect for pirating... arrrgghhh.
...due to copyright issues. The pirates wanted to name their base "New Sealand" but this has been blocked due to a resemblance to some obscure Antipodean nation.
Find a country that:
1.Has a stable government that wont be overthrown anytime soon (preferably democratically elected but a stable totalitarian government such as that in china would work too)
2.Is not friendly/does not need to be friendly with the US and WTO and would not cave in to WTO/US pressure (unlike the russians)
3.Does not respect western copyright law (or at the very least is not going to listen to what the big media corps want)
4.Has no other laws that would make the site or its content illegal (e.g. censorship laws)
and 5.Has (or can be set up with) sufficiant infrastructure (internet links, power etc)
And then set up shop there?
Or what about a ship in international waters? Would western copyright law apply to such a ship?
You know... while everything in my being says this is an idiotic waste of money, there is another angle here: citizenship.
The idea of having TPB be a state and offering even a token citizenship could play out in very interesting ways. Now, the chance of them getting into say, the UN is about as good of a chance as them actually raising the money to buy this thing, so it won't happen... and yah, for TPB's normal use being tied to fragile internet connections is not a good idea.
The Sterling/Gibson/Stephenson/etc geek in me would love to see it happen just for the political games they could play, though. Of course, by becoming their own state the penalty for losing such games is now, like, war, instead of a few annoying civil copyright lawsuits. That's a pretty big downer.
Meh. I say they should go for it if they could. I mean, where else could you generate that kind of free international press coverage?
Ce n'est pas une signature automatique.
They're most likely just trolling for some attention.
Just as a hypothetical worry... I'd be more concerned about dual-citizenship and rights... we know how **AA the US is. I can easily see a time where, even if this did get off the ground, a law was passed by **AA lawyers saying that all citizens of SeaLand have their US citizenship revoked. Sure, it's a little extreme... but do you expect much less from the **AA?
They could buy an island in the south pacific for less.
Then use the difference to defend it, and set it up proper
for their needs, aka bi-directional satellite link.
The island in the south pacific will also be totally out of
US and Euro jurisdiction too.
Hell they could buy an island in the Bahamas for less...
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Congratulations piratebay for a nicely pulled off publicity stunt. Of course they have no intentions of buying Sealand, but they sure wouldn't mind some attention and action back to the site after the big traffic drop they suffered from in the 2006 raid, which they still haven't fully recovered from.
Copyright infringement is not theft. The most obvious and conspicuous difference is that the former is civil and the latter criminal law. This has vast implications vis-a-vis the manner in which suit is brought, the possible penalties for the defendant, and the burden on the plaintiff. Another huge difference is that the latter involves denying the owner the use of an asset whereas the former involves unlawfully creating/distributing copies of a work. Copyright infringement and theft are not even closely related issues, and it's impossible to discuss them usefully without realizing that.
Now, these are obvious, relevant, basic facts about a topic which is important and much-discussed on Slashdot. And yet there a largish population (maybe 15% of those who express an interest) on Slashdot of people who just physically cannot learn them. Whence, then, this 'fool reserve'?
Originally I theorized that it relates to sunspot activity but later I came to feel that El Nino, peak oil, the war in Iraq, and the new 'gritty' James Bond may all play a role. And maybe chupacabra. Chupacabra's a pretty sinister beast... think about it, it's a monster named after a lollipop... what could possibly be spookier?
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
ideally be able to then begin legally moving it to it's own sovereignty.
There is no legal path to get your own sovereignty. Once you're in, you're in for life. Hell, most of the wars going on in the world right now are because some ethnic group wants its own sovereignty and can't get it. You know, Chechnya, Kashmir, etc. Remember, the government owns you. All the government has is land and people. If they just let people leave and take the land with them they'd no longer have any real power. Self-rule threatens the very existence of governments.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Sure lets all chip in to make some people the proud owners of £500 million in property. Perhaps they need to sell shares in the company in the time honoured way of raising capital for an action of that sort.
Oh God, those crazy pirates... I can just see it now... They get sued, and then counter, saying "According to Pirate Nation of Sealand, suing over copyright law is illegal and punishable by death." Then...
*BANG!*
"Mwu-hahahahahah!"
Student Manager - Take control of your education!
The idea of Sealand is that it's supposed to be its own country (which is not assured). If you buy an island that's definitely going to still belong to some other country.
The satellites you'd use to link it to the internet would be owned by somebody else and could be convinced to take the connection down.
Also, an island is geographically fixed, so once all the practical ways to connect to it are taken down (satellite, links from neighbouring places), it's pretty much over.
IMO, the advantage of having a satellite take care of it is that it can bypass the internet completely, letting people connect to it directly (ideally it would be compatible with dishes available to consumers used for some other purpose).
Also, shooting down a satellite is probably a lot more complicated than blowing up Sealand, and if say, China could be convinced to lanuch it, America trying to shoot it down would be an international incident.
If I become an citizen of another country, or even just swear an oath to another country, don't I lose my US citizenship?
So if I donate money to TBB and become a "citizen" of TBB/Sealand am I no longer a US citizen?
Not that US citizenship really means anything anymore, what with having lost habeas corpus, being able to be called an "enemy combatant" and disappeared, and imigration laws not really being enforced on a broad scale.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
Its actually not for sale. They want "inward investment". See http://www.sealandgov.org/notices/pn03307.html
The problem is that there aren't any islands that aren't already claimed by a country. You might be able to buy property rights to an island, but no country would ever sell you sovereignty. Sealand, on the other hand, has an arguable claim to sovereignty.
Interesting idea. But you have to keep a few things in mind:
So I wish you good luck. If you are not interested in the satellite anymore, I could sell you some bridges or even some parts of the moon (also a satellite, but 100% natural).
-Raphaël
Well what we need is money to build an interstellar cruiser. Now this spaceship will be able to travel through a wormhole and deliver the message and the glory of jesus christ to those godless aliens. Send your money now! Amen.
Say what you will about Pirate Bay, you may like them or dislike them but my god they are good at PR. Really, the reality of PB buying Sealand is far.
Piracy committed in international waters is one of those gray-area things, but the international agreements seems to be that any vessel of any nation may use whatever force is necessary in order to stop an act of piracy in international water. Therefore, technically speaking, any government would be fully justified in invading this "sealand" and putting a stop to their criminal activities. Actually, to be fully correct, it wouldn't even have to be a government ship, since even private vessels are authorized to act in order to stop pirate activity. Therefore, I could rent a boat, sail over to the platform, board it, confiscate their computer equipment, and go home. It'd be perfectly legal. Probably pretty safe too - I don't think computer nerds are quite as dangerous as the original pirates.
> It's not like Sealand will have "weapons of mass destruction"
No, they will accuse it of trafficking in kiddie porn.
-- Nick "Hallo this is Beel Gates, und I pronounce weendows as
The first of the microstates from The Star Fraction is being born.
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
£500m?! Ok, after thinking about this for a bit this is just R-E-T-A-R-T-E-D! There are so many things you could do with 1,000,000,000 that is so much more important that shielding yourself from copy right laws. This has to be the most irresponsible way to spend that kind of money I have ever heard of. Not just for Pirates Bay, but any idiot that thinks about buying the rights to call Sealand their own. What a total waste of money!
You could put that into a checking account and earn $5,000,000 a year in interest. Just image what you could do if you really invested it.
If you must!
They are only kidding themselves and their users here. Even if they succeed in buying the rig/nation, they still have to buy their net access from somewhere...and that somewhere can cut off their service at the drop of a hat and a flip of a switch. And I don't think they plan to launch their own satellite system anytime soon, even if they do get the "island".
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I think this is a great idea:
- The server farm is outside anyone's jurisdiction. In space!
- You make your own connection - you own all the connection equipment except the equipment that is in space.
- Satellite could run virtual hosting of websites or Linode-like virtual machines - run whatever applications you want, but in space!
Perhaps the satellite could have a regular Internet link as long as it was possible to have one, just to get it started. Eventually this would be forced down by the authorities, as inevitably the satellite would be hosting things they didn't like. But if the actual owners of the satellite refused to give up the remote administration keys (or destroyed them), the satellite would stay up for years, unreachable except at great expense. Geeks win. In space.
Seriously, I hope someone does this, because it would kick so much ass. Could enough virtual hosting be sold to fund design, construction and launch? Are rad-hardened computers sufficiently compact to make it economically feasible to do this yet?
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
They remember all the good things government does, when ninjas in business suits [flying airplanes] bomb the hell out of sealand.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Considering we're talking about a billion dollars, there are plenty of actual islands that might be available for the price.
.8, .2 (total:38.6) km^2
1 - Pitcairn
Pop: 67 Area: 5 km^2
Sovereign: UK technically, New Zealand de facto
Pros: Inhabited by mutineers. Argh!
Cons: Inhabited by mutineers
2 - Pretty much anywhere in Indonesia
17,508 islands, and one desperate need for a billion dollars
Pros: Indonesian government will probably sell you slaves too
Cons: Indonesians will probably try to kill you from speedboats
3 - Clipperton Island
Pop: 0 Area: 6 km^2
Sovereign: France
Pros: National joke of France as it's most important overseas territory. Significant guano deposits.
Cons: It still smells of French. Also, tuna fishing actually makes it profitable
4 - The "Scattered Islands in the Indian Ocean"
Pop: 0 Area: 28, 5, 4.4,
Sovereign: France
Pros: Airfield, near a continent, descriptive name
Cons: Madagascar tried to annex them, so there are now 14 French soldat stationed on most islands. Tromelin is stationed by fearsome weathermen
5 - Jan Mayen
Pop: 0 Area: 377 km^2
Sovereign: Norway
Pros: Active volcano
Cons: Active volcano
6 - Bouvet Island
Pop: 0 Area: 49 km^2
Sovereign: Norway
Pros: Not much interest in the place
Cons: Frozen over, generally impossible to get to on account of ice
7 - Iles Crozet and Iles Kerguelen
Pop: 0 Area: 7,829 km^2 all together
Sovereign: France
Pros: Giant landmass... relatively speaking
Cons: Lots of fishing grounds, so may be too profitable to sell
8 - Heard Island and McDonald Islands
Pop: 0 Area: 412 km^2
Sovereign: UK, administered by Australia
Pros: Features an island named "Shag Island," widely believed to be the secret hideout of Austin Powers
Cons: Technically a nature preserve
9 - Spratly Islands
Pop: 0 Area: 5 km^2
Pros: Near China
Con: Every nearby country, including China, claims them
10 - U.S. Pacific Islands Wildlife Refuge
Pop: 0 Area: 22.4 km^2
Pros: Wildlife
Cons: US owned, and hippies will protest purchase
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Now there's an idea. Heck, they could fund their own small satellite company with that much money and construct their own platform in international waters. Completely independently. I would join their rogue little nation, just for the fun of it. Heck, if they could have enough commercial satellite launches, they could pay for themselves independently...
Heck, in fifty years they could colonize Mars or something. They very well could get there before anyone else. Who cares about Sealand, how about an entire planet? If it had the same sorts of philosophy as something like Wikipedia, I would definitely contribute! Open-source reprap.org self-replicating machines could be sent to Mars to prepare a colony for nerds... Like a leper colony, I suppose... We nerds would need to find some reliable source of willing females in order to be self-sustaining... Well, I guess it's doomed, then! (Unless we can learn to not call them just "females" all the time and maybe learn a few more social skills...)
If you could get a few million anarchists to cooperate... Nevermind.
Go to San Marino. The chicks have hairy legs and armpits (like their Italian sisters) but it's on the top of a mountain, independent, and even has an F1 race named for it.
If size doesn't matter, there is India, or any of the Chinese provinces -- all well known for providing safe haven for criminals, terrorists, and pirates.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think this whole convo is forgetting "pirate" can refer to more than just copyright sidestepping...
:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Caroline
"Radio Caroline is a European radio station that originally commenced transmissions as an offshore radio station broadcasting from a ship anchored off the coast of South East England in international waters. Unlicensed by any government for the majority of its life, it was labelled as a pirate radio station.
A number of unlicensed radio stations have been located on ships anchored off Britain's coasts. Radio Caroline was the first such station to broadcast all-day using the English language. This, together with the station's tenacity in surviving for some forty years, has established Radio Caroline as a household name for offshore radio."
Down further in the same article:
"Radio Caroline is now broadcasting over the airwaves, via satellite and on the Internet. The station now uses onshore studios in the south-east English town of Maidstone in Kent. A website and internet audio stream are also available. Caroline began broadcasting via Astra satellites from 19 and 28 degrees east, covering the whole of Western Europe, first with an analogue, and then later digital service."
So this is neither unprecedented nor unique even at the moment, if it comes to be. For a more general treatment on pirate radio read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_radio.
They could just rework the old joke:
...[snip]...I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH. THAT'S ONE-FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP."
British Navy: "Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision."
PirateBay: "Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision."
British Navy: "This is the captain of a British Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course."
PirateBay: "No, I say again, you divert YOUR course."
British Navy : "THIS IS HMS
PirateBay: "This is the Sealand offshore installation. Your call."
British Navy: "Fire torpedoes!"
The easiest way to the **AA would be buy this island by them self, and build up with fully DRM protection from music to mug.
The sheer awesom-- I mean brilliance of this concept is difficult to put in words. (I promised myself to stay away from awesome this year...).
I personally hope they can pull it off.
Even though I suspect that if they use their status as a sovereign nation to declare local copyright law void, there will be an Operation Sealandian Freedom.
I think this raises a rather interesting, larger question. What is the requirement to become a recognized, independent nation nowdays? Historically, it required bloodshed and force - but wouldn't you think that today's supposedly "more civilized" 1st. world countries could handle something like this with some diplomacy instead?
I mean, realistically, I think most people consider Sealand a joke, mainly because it doesn't even exist on any natural soil. It's just a man-made structure (initially built and paid for by a neighboring country, no less), out at sea - and is far too small to really be self-sustaining.
But if something similar took place on an actual island, recognized on maps and charts - what, then?
The US Supreme Court disagrees with you: 473 U.S. 207 (1985)
Lawyers debate legal decisions all the time, including those of the Supreme Court. Any law professor, and any dissenting Supreme Court justice, can offer sound reasons to disagree with many of their rulings. But you should definitely tell us where you got your degree, how long and in what field you have practiced, and what law review articles you have published. The problem with Internet discussions is that there's no way, without an introduction, to tell qualified professionals such as yourself from loudmouth ignoramuses.
Why don't they just pay that company already on sealand to host their stuff? Wouldn't that be the same thing and cheaper?
In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
I'm imagining a huge pringles can antenna pointed at Great Britain. All your WiFi are belong to SeaLand...
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Or do something useful like pay lawyers to disprove the ridiculous claims of the content industry of the "losses" due to "piracy".
Well, the "War on Piracy" make take on a whole new meaning. Hopefully its not the US invading...
This would certainly be a good thing. How exactly would a government get its people to believe that sharing copyrighted files is worth killing over? This would be too much; I think it would shock people back to at least an ounce of reality where they realize "this is stupid".
But aside from that I think the money would be much better spent on other things. How about we spend it on developing better DHT technology to the extent that a whole website (PirateBay) can become a DHT site shared among peers? How about improving Bittorrent's non-existent privacy (improve anonymity)? How about launching satellites (when it's cheaper to do so of course) that do the torrent serving? If they are *not* in geosynchronous orbit then how would somebody like the **AA take them down (IE they can't say "it's over the US so since the Supreme Court ruled this illegal we can do what we like with it", not that that would stop them anyways).
There are plenty of options that would take the money further than buying an island. Many of these options would have numerous indirect benefits to humanity. Imagine if torrents were completely anonymous, a reporter in some nation wouldn't have any fear in filming and distributing what he knows the world needs to see. Imagine if torrent traffic was anonymized so that ISPs couldn't throttle it without distrupting other corporate interests? The **AA wouldn't be able to pressure them into doing anything about it. . . because they wouldn't be able to even if they wanted to.
Technical hurdles are far easier to overcome than international ones. My guess is any nation connecting to the PB island would get kicked out of the WTO or something. Nobody would connect to it, and the 500m would be wasted. They should spend the money on other things, like overcoming these technical hurdles.
Fortunately this won't continue forever. Unless we continue exporting intellectual property (which if you look at the state of education in the public and collegiate school system, is probably not going to happen), there will come a time when the money we have to buy the world's stuff runs out. Somewhere around that time Russia and China and anybody else pissed off at the US will tell them to go screw themselves and their WTO, because they don't want any part of it. This will probably happen later rather than sooner, but it will happen, and we'll finally get to do what we want with our media once again.
First, let get straight that sealand is really not an sovereign nation, since nobody recognizes it and the fact that the royal navy does not take it back is more related to cats playing with food than two powers at war.
There is one possible use of sealand, provided that the UK has no problem with TPB: sealand is a perfect excuse to say "Sorry, but it is not in our jurisdiction".
Should the british government want a place to offload all that RIAA/piracy problem, sealand would be an EXCELLENT place: "independent", "sovereign", and surrounded by UK waters, so a MPAA/RIAA diesel sub or old soviet bomber would be messing with UK sovereignty, yet at hand, so that it can easily be invaded or sunk should there be anyther activity not sanctioned by the UK government (drug smuggling, money laundering, etc).
Basically, TPB on sealand will exist as soon as (as as long as) the UK government wants (or is bribed) to have a really big BT tracker at hand. They should negotiate with the british, then.
GPG 0x1B479C78
He's looked at the state of storage devices and now suspects the idea of a data haven is obsolete. Which is better: a single bombable server farm (and look up how good "penetrating munitions" are), or a zillion loose-knit eccentrics hiding tiny nerdsticks under drywall joint compound, in plain sight, or hidden in bales of marijuana?
matters much less than where it is: the North Sea.
damaged by dogma
As much as I like the cut of Sealands jib, Brecqou is a prime example of why this will not happen.
Brecqou is a very small island in the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernsey etc. - Yes my American friends, that's where New Jersey comes from). The Channel Islands have a very complicated political status, but basically they are part of the British Isles and roughly a Crown Protectorate. They're not part of Great Britain, but the pretty much belong to the Crown anway.
It was bought by the Barclays Brothers years ago, they have since been lobbying to have Brecqou considered an independent nation.
£500mill wouldn't break the Barclays Brothers Bank. And yet their bid is going nowhere, basically because the UKs response is 'Ha ha. Don't be silly.'.
Sealand have no chance of maintaining autonomy as soon as they start to piss anyone off, it's all about authority, and at the very root of nationalism, the threat of violence or sanction. Can't withstand/rebut that? You're not a nation.
In 1968 the British high court decided that Roughs Tower(aka SeaLand) stood in international waters (at the time) and did not fall under the legal jurisdiction of the United Kingdom (abandonment), effectively forcing Parliament to recognize it. The Register is reporting 65 million pounds (UK), the 500 million comment seems to be a misread from the original article that states that available micronations start at 50,000 USD. That, in non-Verizon math, is read as fifty thousand dollars - a reasonable fund raising target - not 500 million dollars.
I thought the deal with HavenCo fell through because Sealand isn't recognised by any other country.
davecb5620@gmail.com
Good soon-to-be-citizens of Sealand:
I believe that we should discuss the issue of civics right away.
The Pirate Bay is going to have to create a brand new government, and I believe it is our job; no, our destiny to help accomplish this goal.
As soon-to-be-citizens, take action and head over to the Buy Sealand Forums http://forum.buysealand.com/ and put in your two cents.
This message has not been endorsed by The Pirate Bay, Sealand, BuySealand.com, Slashdot, the interweb, the RIAA, the MPAA, the terrorists, me, or anyone else. If this message has offended/elated/depressed/caused a chuckle/moderation of funny/spontaenous urination/itching/burning/irritation/emotional distress/bordem/lameness/ or anything else, no one can be held accountable. Please feel free to contact no one in general for more information.
it's a matter of consensus. Your country is official to the extent that other, more established countries recognize yours. The size and power of the country doing the recognizing factors most heavily in that "vote of recognition" - get a superpower to recognize your status, and most of your work is done.
I called it! http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=215606&cid=175 10996
Do you suppose that gets me Ambassador status or something?
~j
~j
You pay your money, you get your (dual) citizenship.
No different from Belize, only costs less.
Copyright infringement is part of criminal law. Patent infringement is part of civil law. That is why you can go to jail for copyright infringement, but not patent infringement.
e xt9.htm
n t
Canada: "Either civil or criminal penalties can be imposed for copyright infringement. Criminal penalties can include fines and/or imprisonment and depend on the seriousness of the infringement."
ref - http://www.yorku.ca/univsec/documents/copyright/t
US: see paragraph 506 called "Criminal offenses"
ref - http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
Britain: ditto
In other jurisdictions it is similar. So get off your high horse and actually READ the law or maybe google for it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringeme
US and Brit courts have decided a long time ago sealand is part of the UK.
As much as it titilates the nerd imagination, sealand is not a haven for anything. Take a look at the wikipedia entry.
I dunno, British law may actually allow this if you start pushing... Remember, Common Law goes back to at least the Battle of Hastings IIRC. You have Common Law dealing with the entire Colonial and post-Colonial period, whatever laws were established to deal with the American War of Independence and the War of 1812, the breakup of British Empire and establishment of the Commonwealth, who knows if Britain has legal precedences dealing with former colonies that establish independence.
Regarding establish countries by claiming to exist, the PLO created Palestine that way. Say what you want about the rights of the Indigenous Arab population of the Roman/Ottoman region of Palestine, they have essentially claimed the existence of a country that never existed, and many world governments recognize.
The British Mandate for Palestine approved by the League of Nations (and supposedly binding on the United Nations, it's successors, as well as the governments of Israel and Jordan, plus the stateless lands in Gaza and on the west bank of the Jordan River) provides for Jewish Settlement in Palestine to create a Jewish homeland, and the Palestinian mandate covered both sides of the Jordan river, yet it is illegal for Jews to own property in Jordan (part of the Mandate) and the world community and ICJ claim that Jewish settlement in the disputed territories is illegal, despite the Mandate providing for it and no agreement with the successor nations repudiating that fact.
The PLO and World community have decided that there will be a nation of Palestine, on land to be determined (it is assumed Gaza, and some chunks of the disputed territories currently under Israeli occupation on the west bank of the Jordan River).
If Israel can create a state on Ottoman captured territory, administered by Britain, and Jordan and Iraq can do the same, and Syria and Lebanon with French soil, and the PLO with unowned territory occupied by Israel, why can't Sealand exist.
NOTE: for those who disagree with my view of history, find an entity under International Law other than Turkey that legally owns the west bank of the Jordan. Israel captured it fighting Jordan, whose occupation and annexation wasn't recognized, and the territory has been stateless since the Roman occupation of Judea, being provinces of the Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium), Ottoman Caliphate, British Mandate, and then occupied without legal recognition by Jordan for 19 years and Israel by over 40 years. The last time the region was part of an autonomous state, the Judean Kings held sovereignty. The issue of a population there is real, and needs to be resolved, but the legal status is quite murky.
- Wouldn't this be the perfect place for a truly offshore, no strings attached, banking system with its own currency? ie Cryptonimicon? - About 6 years ago or so I remember a Wired article about people that were taking a look at Sealand as a web hosting facility that would be free from local standards and policies. It didn't seem to pan out because of the .com collapse.
- Somehow they would need an Internet connection. Regardless of their nation status, they don't get Internet through osmosis. They'll still need to run cables to the UK, France, or both. Wouldn't be so hard to just shut off those routers.
Saving the World: One Drink at a Time
Sure they may be independant, but they still have to purchase bandwidth.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
What excellent news! I'm sure the world's IP supercreators won't mind. But what's this I see on their webcam?
Sealand Webcam
Maritime law ("Law of the sea") states that artificial islands have no territorial waters. Therefore, it's all too easy for some powerful organization to lay seige to Sealand and starve them out.
Really, Sovereignty requires a bit more than just proclaiming yourself king. Even nations with more legitimate claims to nationhood have been strong-armed by the OECD's policy on tax-havens and money laundering. Do you think that Sealand would have much of a chance in that case?
If there was a really serious, well thought out effort towards making an enlightened and libre country I'd lend my support. But this isn't it. It's not even close.
If you can't beat them, buy a nation!
[%] Cingular Ringtones
the MPAA and RIAA have announced that they have jointly purchased the USS Iowa with plans to full refurbish the decommissioned battleship to full fighting capability...
Sealand , no matter what they believe, are not a country, principality or anything else.
Sealand is tolerated by the British Government - it would be too much trouble to do otherwise. For this reason Sealand have never really overstepped the mark _too much_ .
If Sealand was operated contrary to English Law with serious copyright breaches encouraged - Sealand would be offline quicker than you can say "fraud".
I thought i'd never see something like this comig, but here ladies and gents, we see the birth of an evil conqueror.... next thing we will see he is looking for RAYDAR and LAYSER Ray Experts. Some people are completely retarded and slashdot is irrevocably stupid for publishing such irrelevant news.
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
Normally I love solutions like this (extreme overkill), but I think there's a better way to do this.
Instead of buying a country, why not use the money to fund an international lobby group to fight DRM and media controls and advocate for freer copyright law worldwide?
The RIAA/MPAA are getting these laws passed because they have the money to make it happen, and worst of all, it comes from us. It's time to fight fire with fire.
To all who are considering a donation: please consider donating to the EFF. They are the ones who are truly standing up for freedom on the Internet. I'm not trying to take anything away from TPB, I think it takes a lot of cojones to fight the fight like they are doing, but there are much easier ways to fight back than owning your own internationally unrecognized nation.
This is actually a pretty good idea. IF all of the filesharing networks, (so along with torrent spy, filelist, etc), along with people who run IRC server all combined funds. It could then purchase the island and never have to worry. Although I don't see it happening anytime soon.
So who's going to host the tracker (which tells your computer which computers on the internet have the file)? The torrent files only contain error correction information for each block, so they alone are insufficient.
How much do I have to donate to get diplomatic immunity?
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
Why do people even argue about whether or not it is OK to call "copyright infringement" "stealing"? Just call it the globally acceptable phrase "copyright infringement" and save us all the huge argument already!
Thanks!
(Something tells me that my calm and reason is not on this occasion going to be enough to single-handedly stop the flame-war...)
I'll probably be modded down for this...
The only solution I see is that people should be able to be paid at the production step, not at the distribution step.
I don't understand this at all. You envision fans lining up around the block to sit in the newly-constructed bleachers at the recording studios, for a fee? No? Then please explain. Who will pay at production step if they can't somehow recoup their investment through distribution?
Or is this the old 'artists should make their living money from performance' concept? If yes ... whats your plan for authors and moviemakers?
Unfortunately, they will be under no protection from any goverment. What is to keep the **AA from just bombing their island into the ocean without repercussions? I certainly wouldn't put it past them...
What I want to know is when will the outrageous imbalance in what media is worth versus its cost come to equalize. I know it is a luxury, but with the enormous selection of often very similar sounding music (or similar movies for that matter - go Hollywood) out there why should it be so expensive. I'm hoping that the free availability of digital media will force the respective industries to their knees and make them realize that they cannot support such a top heavy system. The lifestyles of (popular) musicians etc and the money involved in production is unrealistic and should not continue. Heres hoping non-physical based media will do what cheap Chinese imports do force intense competition.
As multiple posters have pointed out, Sealand is not a country in any real sense. But what about using a ship in international waters instead? Connecting to the web via satellite? Obviously bandwidth might be pricey. But in the 60s in the UK, pirate radio stations used to operate from ships...
I've always viewed this "downloading illegally" the same way I view libraries..
I'm guessing that the cost you pay for owning a library card is merely for upkeep and staff, am I right?
If so, then getting stuff off the internet in my opinion is no more illegal than getting stuff from the library.
I accepted the small price I had to pay to get access to the vast amounts of material at hand, and was fine with it. The internet merely seems to extend that library philosophy in my mind to make it easier for me to grab stuff with almost no hassle at all, and I can freely use the material, and if I like it, I'll support it by buying it.
I download daily show and colbert report for instance, and if comedy central was available in my country, I'd have looooooong ago jumped at the chance to grab it, same with top gear. Many of the books I read online I won't purchase (same as would happen in a library) but those I find particularly valuable to me, I definitely buy.
It's the same with games, I download full games because demos suck, and if I barely play that game, then it isn't worth my money, if I play it through, and want to play it again, then that's a game I'll support.
I really do feel that the internet downloading reflects what people do in the library, people use it to familiarize itself with what they are interested in, and if they find stuff they like, they'll support it, like people have always done with libraries, and like people will always continue to do with the internet.
I'll even go as far as saying that what MPAA/RIAA is doing is limiting their sales of movies and music because they're trying to criminalize normal people, and really just alienating their target market of music and movies, which is as ridiculous to me as if barnes&noble would sue someone for borrowing a book from a library.
We all have the same inbuilt moral code, so it's no wonder that musicians download music without paying for it, comedians download comedic audio, tv people downloading tv stuff, advertisers downloading ads, movie producers downloading movies, directors of MPAA/RIAA downloading music/movies (or the children of theirs), we all download stuff, but we also all purchase the stuff we find valuable and worthwhile to own. I'm pretty sure that the biggest downloaders of movies, for instance are the ones who already have a passion for them, and buy alot of them, why would you alienate the very person who wants your stuff by suing him for what we all think of in the same terms as using the library?
I'm mostly defending the normal persons downloading and sharing.. I'm against people downloading and then selling the stuff for personal profit, that's what I'd call copyright infringement.
K.
...nothing can protect them there, they are located in a country wich protects them quite well against US **AA organisations. If they move to Sealand it would be enough to cut the connections.
In Soviet Russia, Pirate Bay visits YOU!
Kid-proof tablet..
And before someone flames me about it, yes, I do realize that currently no other country recognizes Sealand as a sovereign nation, so the passport wouldn't be of any practical value.
Somebody suggested they should just move to Luxembourg.
I wonder if Luxembourg served as a model for the
country of Grand Fenwick?
The setting is not quite the same but it's very possible got the inspiration there.
--
El Guerrero del Interfaz
To all those that say that copyright infringment is theft. I only have to say, "La propriété, c'est le vol!" or to use the Digger version: "And that this Civil Propriety is the Curse, is manifest thus, Those that Buy and Sell Land, and are landlords, have got it either by Oppression, or Murder, or Theft."
You can't be a Real Country unless you have a BEER and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER. - Frank Zappa
----- OffTheWall72
http://realestate.theemiratesnetwork.com/developme nts/dubai/world_islands.php
Wouldn't it be so much cheaper to just MAKE your own country? Just find a place 30-40 miles from nowhere and make your own island(s). Under international laws, a nation can only be considered as such if it has physical land - and buolding your own island seems to be infinately easier than paying the ubsurd price for this abandoned(and burnt out since the fire) platform.
I'm the very model of a modern pirate national:
Links to movies, music, and the porn you love with hash and all.
On my island you won't find things nearly quite as factional,
Since information's free! and not so loutishly transactional.
A "pb" will be put in every single little DNS,
And everyone will know just what it takes for you to link to us.
But how we'll hook up to the net is really anybody's guess,
Since laws are made for media to forward all of their interests.
Maybe fibre-optic or the using of some satellites
Will give the bandwidth that we need to soften all the copyrights.
We are really worried, though, and we can hardly sleep at nights:
A simple cut beneath the sea can cut off all our bits and bytes.
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/3 1/2017216
I wonder if this one has been claimed yet?
1. the contract stipulates that "One of the cannot be waived conditions is that no of the projects of management of the principality of Sealand affects nor interferes with in no sense the interests of the United Kingdom." this means that in order to keep the UK happy, you cant break any UK laws... like murder.. or filesharing.. or child pornography laws. 2. after the initial 500 million pounds there is still the issue of, well do know a country nearby that will let you lay your own fiber to link up with the internet. (and allow all your illegal Sh*t to be routed through their country?) Me neither. also laying your own ocean fiber will be prohibitively expensive. there is a reason why people go to an isp for their internet connection. instead of starting up their own isp. 3. have you seen the place? some people are speculating what if 5000 people arrive on sealand,, there is barely enough space for 10 people on that thing.. and they would also need to buy a helicopter and the fuel for the helo.
It all comes down to distribution. For example, if you download a song or piece of software, you are not guilty of infringement of a copyright unless you make copies and give those copies to other people by means of transmittal. And while the illicit copy of the material you received is proof of infringement, you have not "infringed" on anything. The person that gave or sold it to you did however, under current law*, unless there is no applicable law covering this issue in the jurisdiction in which the transmittal was initiated **. But the bar is very low. Most of the RIAA cases involve "intent" to transmit, which seems to be valid in court so far, even though it's a legal gray area.
In the case of Mickey Mouse, it's not copyright infringement if you take a picture of the billboard. It is copyright infringement (and a trademark violation) if you were to... say, put it on a t-shirt and give or sell it to your friends. In theory, this would also apply to most pictures taken at DisneyLand*** and put in family albums on the Web. However, no one seems to want to prosecute these flagrant picture sharing criminals like the unconscionable vermin they are. And home movies taken there? If they wanted to pursue grounds for punitive of "nominal" damages, infringement, defamation, or any number of other civil offenses, the grounds would be there as well.
* Under the old law, there had to be a financial transaction in order to constitute infringement.
** I think. If I'm wrong it's because he may be breaking the law by proxy, as is alleged in the AllofMP3.com case. In other words, someone could theoretically break the law in the US, while not breaking the law in Russia by involving an American in America in the violation using the Internet (if you follow that logic to it's conclusion). Not being a legal expert, I'm unclear as to the precedent that would validate such a line of reasoning.
*** Since DL does not technically meet the criteria for being a "public" place. Even if it did (which is doesn't), trademark law would still apply, as the base grounds for "commerce" and "distribution" have changed.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
...when they can just steal it?
Buysealand.com: "Plan B: If we do not get enough money required to buy the micronation of Sealand, we will try to buy another small island somwhere and claim it as our own country (prices start from USD 50 000)."
Lacking any other information, I will assume that you want the same songs I do, in which case http://www.emusic.com/ is what you want. They have a use-it-or-lose it subscription model, with the current cheapest monthly plan providing (I think) 30 songs for $10 ($.33/song), no DRM, MP3, usually encoded VBR with LAME 3.96. Sampling my purchases, the bit rate reported by iTunes is usually between 160 and 195kbps.
I have not purchased any songs on iTunes since I signed up for eMusic.
I've purchased songs by (output of "ls -1" in the appropriate folder): Asobi Seksu, Bettie Serveert, Bjo??rk, Brave Combo, Dar Williams, Frank Zappa, Gillian Welch, Johann Johannsson, John Fahey, Kaki King, Led Zepplin Tribute, Mission of Burma, Nouvelle Vague, Pere Ubu, So Percussion, The Go-Betweens, The Mountain Goats, Tracy Grammer and Various Artists. You might want to use this as a sort of a guide to what they do or don't have in their digital inventory. I have no problem buying my quota each month, and at $.33/song I am perfectly willing to take a chance on a second album by So Percussion or Bettie Serveert.
and notice that I am not even spamming you with the canned "tell a friend about eMusic" mail that gets me free songs if you sign up. I'm doing this because I want these guys to succeed.
They could go in under the assumption of weapons of mass distribution
Good work defending your point.
---
I agree, land-lubbing scum! I say we put five million into into a fleet of fine three-masted ships, one million into swords and cannon, and convert the rest into dubloons and piece's-of-eight, for burying and the like! Arr, Pirates international, we can just conquer Sealand and turn it into the new Tortuga.
Now, if ye will excuse me, I've got plunderin' and wenches to attend to!
Ninjas use italics.
Satellite comms is significantly more expensive than land based fiber and the upkeep of a ship isn't exactly trivial either so I'm not sure the economics of that idea would ever stack up..
Insert
If I borrow a dvd from my friend, say seasons 1 to 3 of some tv show, or all 3 terminators, and keep them for 3 weeks, and watch em all.
I didnt pay for it, but they also dont legally deserve any money for it either.
Just like Ford doesnt get any money if my cousin borrows my car for two weeks.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Why would digital pirates want to own and operate an aquatic theme park?
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
Stealing a screw driver from Home Depot (assuming they charge) is the crime known as "petty shoplifting". Typically the max penalty (depends on state though) is 120 days in prison, and no judge will levy that for stealing a screwdriver. Some forms of copyright violation is punishable by 5 years in prison PER offense (and is a felony). So stealing a screwdriver is much less of a crime in the eyes of law.
I'll donate for diplomatic status.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_immunity
The Admin and the Engineer
the pony should be a lot tighter than miss Jameson and less likely to give you a disease.
Geez. I am a network admin in an office that uses wireless internet access, but that just popped up as an afterthought.
Yeah, pretty decent latency and no problems with uptime on that part. (The ISP's backbone is apparently giving trouble though, so we're forced to install a secondary line over copper. Damnit.)
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
Hey Steve, I like your music. The link to riot fuel on your psytrance page is broken, any chance of getting a copy?
Cheers
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
Project Entropia is based in Sweden I think...
To be honest, recorded music is probably the least of my priorities as far as copyright goes. I can see why this would be different for you as your post seems to indicate that you are a professional musician. My wife and I listen to recorded music very rarely as she plays guitar and sings and I sing (though not professionally). My wife used to sing professionally, my daughter plays the keyboard.
I see various arguements of the positions on copyright, and there are some good points made on all sides. I will tell you some things that bother me though:
1. Copyright versions of the bible. How can something be the word of god and an innovative work by the copyright holder at the same time? I think of the people who gave their lives or risked their lives so that people could have the bible in their own language. Imagine trying to explain to one of them that you had translated the bible, had the capacity for unlimited distribution, but had decided to create artificial scarcity so that you could get paid. I could understand if they made them available for non-commercial reproduction for free but required royalties on sales I suppose.
2. Computers are the new means of production. Software, once created, is by nature unlimited in quantity. How can we justify creating artificial scarcity of the means of production, and distribute it on the basis of who already has money? It seems to me that this is an outrageous violation of any decent ethical principle, but software writers do need to be paid somehow of course.
These, in my mind, are far more important issues than whether or not people can download music for free. Obviously some people are working effectively to solve these problems without destroying copyright law but they highlight to me that there are some problems associated with copyrights that could potentially be outweighing the benefits. If some industries need to get smaller or disappear to solve these problems, it needs to be taken into account but is not necessarily a deciding factor on what should be done.
By the way, on a (sort of) unrelated topic, have you considered doing a live recording? I don't know how viable that would be for most bands or for you personally, but some people seem to do it profitably. Certainly you could do it for less that $24,000, and you would be doing it while you were getting paid for a show. Even without the free music utopia arriving (tounge in cheek) this could perhaps be worthwhile for you.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/