It's not mentioned in the story, but this board is the Teron CX, which is also distributed under the licensed trademark "AmigaOne G3-SE".
There's also a model with the CPU on an exchangeable module, called Teron PX (or "AmigaOne XE" when it's marketed to AmigaOS users). Hopefully we'll see Terrasoft and others selling Teron PX as well, which offers G4 and 750FX (a newer, faster G3 design) CPUs.
Due to a seriously fscked up compulsory licensing policy for AmigaOS, that OS will however not be sold separate from licensed hardware and be allowed to be installed on Teron boards from vendors who are not licensed by Amiga, Inc., like Terrasoft.
P.S. Why is this story under "Apple"? MOL runs fine on these, but come on!
You can imagine a Hollywood rape^H^H^H^H remake of Solaris(!) featuring George Clooney(!!) without either bursting into tears or laughter?
Applause!
I mean, hey! Solaris! The Solaris! You just don't touch things like that. It's as if Disney would get their hands on H-C Andersen stories or A. A. Milne's "Winnie the Pooh"... Oh...
I'm a freebie user, but I think we too have access to the mail forwarding feature.
What I wonder is, if as a paying user you can set domains/addresses to ignore? You see, all mail I get to my university account is filtered through a virus checking relay, and Spamcop interprets those headers as open relay activity and wants to send reports to abuse@myuniversity, so I have to uncheck those boxes for each spam on the Spamcop site.
If I could set a preference to automatically ignore any headers referring to "myuniversity" domains, Spamcop would have a new customer. And if they could clearly state fixed prices for their service... It's kinda twisted that spam victims should pay for reporting the abuse, in an ideal world Spamcop could charge a fee from the spammers' ISPs for each confirmed abuse report - that might make even the Taiwanese and Chinese ISPs a bit more interested in cooperating...;)
To get back on topic; as you say, the Mozilla bug would still be there though. I'm happy to see that the number of votes for that bug has more than doubled after I mentioned it here.:) It is "Major," damnit!
The bug I linked to was just an example of a highly disruptive bug. Examples? See my Spamcop example above, or let's say you want to copy-n-paste part of an article into a Slashdot post, or use Mozilla's Composer and paste text/code into that, or paste something into a Bugzilla(!) form, and so on and so forth.
In comparison to that, how many sites actually fail to display at all because of this DHTML bug?
My point was that I don't see the need to retract releases unless they contain harmful bugs.
If someone can't be bothered to do that, that bug is preventing pasting of more than 4000 bytes from other apps into Mozilla. 4kB ain't much, for example pasting spam mails into SpamCop forms usually won't work, most spammers aren't too considerate about the size of their spam...:-P
I've been waiting for ages for a fix to e.g. this bug which renders Mozilla useless for quite a bunch of purposes. Still I wouldn't see a reason to retract the releases containing bugs like that, unless we're talking about serious security holes.
Now that NASA have adopted SI units for measuring distances just like the rest of the civilised world has done for the last century or so, especially for scientific projects like, say, Mars landings, they have just started to tackle the problem of using SI units for measuring time. Those newfangled seconds, hours and days! *grumble*
I bet they wonder which month is the 19th when they see the date correctly written as 2002-11-19 or 19/11...
It wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with "misfolded" proteins.
Cell signalling has everything to do with tertiary protein structures and everything to do with controlling the life cycles of cells - i.e. finding new (or more specific/effective) approaches to - for example - cancer therapy.
Drug specificity is gained through precise drug-receptor interactions. Receptors are proteins. The more exactly you know the receptor structure, the more specifically you can design your drug. Being able to predict different tertiary protein structures (foldings) from only the known DNA sequence mutations can only be A Good Thing, and having a crapload of computers around the world doing part of the job for free is nice.
Though I'm not gonna participate unless I get royalties from any patents/drugs that may come out of all this...;)
"No new Amigas"? I'm sorry but Eyetech's license for the "Amiga" trademark from Amiga Inc. is perfectly valid.
Did I question the validity of someone's trademark license? I'm sure everything's signed and sealed. It's the invention of those two companies after all.
The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of it as such or not.
Oh yeah? And my daddy is stronger than your daddy! Lalalala-I-can't-hear-you!
What the hell kind of argument was that supposed to be?
An Amiga was a home computer system that ran AmigaOS. The same company made both the hardware and the OS. The hardware was a custom job, as all computers back then, and the OS was dependent on custom chips and tightly coupled to the Amiga hardware. The hardware and the OS were made for eachother.
Those days are over. THANK GOD! Unless some industry giant or inhumanly rich hardware genius comes along and pulls out the fastest, most advanced and cheapest hardware anyone's ever seen - and can keep up with development and pricing - then "new Amiga hardware" is something to fear.
AmigaOS is all that is left today, and you simply cannot have avoided that nobody makes or is planning to make any hardware with AmigaOS in mind, especially not Amiga Inc. Instead AmigaOS will run on third party hardware. No, you haven't missed that.
> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000" > motherboards are still praised somewhere on the > horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
You should really try reading the official information available from Amiga Inc. before citisizing them. Your speculations are not appreciated, Seehund.
Oh well. Here is my "speculation." While you read it and weep, please note the old humourous references to an operating system based on "AmigaDE". It's really good for a laugh. Ooooh, they've got that embarrassing old Zico joke still up there! "AmigaOS will run on... ummm... a computer... with some processor of some kind... And a next generation Matrox GFX card! That's mighty important!"
That garbage is linked to from THE FRONT PAGE of the "corporate" site.
Your disappreciation of my "speculation" is not appreciated... Go troll on amiga.org or something.
> In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of > hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
That should read; "In order for your product to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the hardware vendor has to:".
Which is synonymous in this case. What the FUCK is your problem?
AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed product.
A licensed product == a dongled product (required for licensing) == a board that is capable of running AmigaOS.
What you intentionally keep misunderstanding is that when you decide to ship AmigaOS4 with your product, it must have the hardware verification binaries installed on some kind of ROM attached to the hardware. Preferably a FlashROM, but a USB dongle for example, would do the work as well.
I've had it with you. I have said THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING as quoted above FOR EIGHT DAMN MONTHS, and I even said IN THE VERY SAME POST that you're replying to, and you start babbling about me failing to understand?
The hardware vendor does NOT have to provide support for AmigaOS4. On the contrary, Amiga Inc. is willing to provide support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services.
That's total bollocks. Amiga Inc has NOTHING to do with AmigaOS apart from the trademark and license.
There's nothing more odd about this policy than the one of Apple and their MacOS ROM images.
With the "minor" difference of course that Apple design, make and sell, and make a living out of selling, THEIR OWN DAMN HARDWARE, with which they can do what the fuck they want! You might have heard of that hardware, it's called Macintosh.
However, the difference is that Amiga Inc. allows *anyone* to become an Amiga hardware manufacturer rather than Apple's total MacOS hardware monopoly. On top of that, they're willing to provide customer support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. Does all this really sound so awful?
"Amiga Inc ALLOWS anyone to become an AMIGA HARDWARE manufacturer"? And you compare the AmigaOS situation with Apple's OWN HARDWARE? And you top it off with basically saying "it doesn't suck because it sucks less than another totally unrelated and incomparable and irrelevant thing that really sucks"?
I wouldn't know, Bill Buck (loose-lipped CEO of Thendic, vendor of the Pegasos POP mobo and the "AmigaOS classic" compatible MorphOS, for those who wonder) has not yet shared any private correspondence regarding that...;)
The "word on the street" is that Hyperion only filled out and faxed back a survey of interest sent out to potentially interested developers some time last year, and then never actually ordered a board.
I see there's a thread on ANN.lu now, and from Buck's posts there it seems like Hyperion haven't contacted them since February, and there's also a public PR stunt about inviting Hyperion's Ben Hermans to lunch and offering a Pegasos board.
I seriously doubt that Hyperion - or anyone else - would actually be refused to buy a piece of hardware by anyone.
If an OS is to be ported to another piece of hardware (and the Pegasos and TeronCX are nearly identical in that respect), it's of course up to the software vendor/developer to make it happen, nobody else. Again, it's not as if it's difficult to get hold of a Pegasos (or a friggin' Mac or whatever).
OTOH it's pretty pointless for Hyperion to start porting the OS to any hardware, until some hypothetical distributor rides in on a white horse waving a license and a dongle. That's the obstacle which must be removed.
The big issue is not what preoccupies a few fanatic trolls in the Amiga community, i.e. some kind of twisted, invented animosity and faction-forming among people who for one reason or another have "chosen" one POP board over another, or one Amiga-classic emulating OS over another. It's about the survival of AmigaOS and its dependency on the availability of hardware options, which unfortunately are things largely ignored in the pathetic flamewars.
It doesn't matter what the heck kind of hardware-license verification mechanism Eyetech happened to have chowen (which are socketed ROMs).
It's totally irrelevant if it's a dongle in ROM or a requirement to paint the southbridge chip blue.
Other hypothetical licencees are "free" to choose another method, like a USB dongle - which serves as an excellent illustration of why the silly "anti piracy" excuse I've seen used is total and utter bollocks. A USB dongle is no more secure just because a hardware vendor is forced to supply it with his hardware, than it is if it's supplied with a separately sold copy of AmigaOS!
No, Thendic haven't said that they'll get a license. They have said that they'd love to see AmigaOS run on their hardware, the Pegasos mobo. In the Normal (non-Amiga) world this means just that, that the software vendor ports his software, prints "runs on hardware X" on the CD cover, and tries to SELL as MANY COPIES as possible of his software!
No, the license is not free. There might be no fee, but there are royalties to use the licensed "Amiga" trademark. It wouldn't matter even if that would be free - there's still a licensing/bundling/OS-selling-and-supporting/dongl ing requirement made on hardware vendors, whereas a hardware vendor has the option to sell his hardware normally to everyone else. Which option is more attractive?
Do you think Apple will be interested in an Amiga license for their Macs? Do you think that even if someone else licensed/dongled a batch of Macs and distributed them with AmigaOS, it would be OK to not let AmigaOS and its customers have access to the ENTIRE Mac market, regardless of vendors and bundling/licensing agreements?
The bare board (Teron CX) is $300 without a CPU, in single specimens. Buy a container load, and...
One thing that's f*cked up is that potential AmigaOS users wouldn't be allowed to buy those boards, because they wouldn't be dongled, bundled with AmigaOS and sold via a licensed distributor.
It's Amiga Inc's decision to have AmigaOS run on third party hardware. In this case they license the "AmigaOne" trademark to one of the distributors of these Teron CX/PX motherboards, Eyetech. Just like they intend to license the trademark to any other hypothetical licensee of any other feasible hardware (too damn bad that there's a licensing requirement for AmigaOS to run on a piece of hardware in the first place though).
Mai Logic is behind the hardware. The hardware has been sold by them since august 2001.
2. Same reason you can call PPC Macs for Macs.
No, we call Macs "Macs" because Apple made them, designed them and sold them, and Apple call their machines Macs.
What the story refers to as "Amigas" are POP boards designed and made by Mai Logic, and now one new distributor, Eyetech, is just starting to distribute them under the licensed trademark "AmigaOne".
3. It runs AmigaOS.
So does any x86 box with Amithlon or another emulator. AmigaOS 4 and beyond will run on third party hardware, which unfortunately has to be licensed/bundled/dongled. So if someone licensed a Titanium Powerbook, would that be any more or less "Amiga" than the Teron CX board? How about a Pegasos POP board? A Barbie POP board?
The Amiga is dead, long live AmigaOS. Let's just hope that Amiga Inc. realise their mistake to effectively eradicate the advantages of running on third party hardware by inventing the braindead and harmful compulsory hardware licensing requirement.
People don't care about whether some distributor has slapped an Amiga sticker on a piece of hardware, when they can buy the exact same hardware elsewhere for less money, and when there's nothing "special" (better) about the hardware other than the higher price.
Heh. You'll still have to wait for that miracle to happen. Amiga Inc. has nothing to do with hardware (and not much to do with AmigaOS besides the trademark).
What this story is reporting is that yet another distributor has started distributing Mai Logic's Teron series motherboards (but using an "AmigaOne" trademark this time, instead of for example Phoenix, like another distributor uses to sell the same mobo). The story submitter probably got carried away when reading the marketing and seeing "Amiga" in the blurb.
This "story" is horribly misleading, it's almost as if somebody made a cut-n-paste from the Eyetech marketing...
No, there are no "new Amigas." No, nobody will make any "new Amigas."
Hardware has no longer got anything to do with anything "Amiga."
Once upon a time (almost two years ago), the UK Amiga shop Eyetech became "hardware partners" of the new company "Amiga Inc." They were to provide actual new PPC Amiga hardware, and contracted the German firm Escena to design it. This failed. I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000" motherboards are still praised somewhere on the horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
Instead, AmigaOS 4 and newer will run on third party PPC hardware. That could of course have been fantastic news, but for some reason Eyetech, as a thank you for services not rendered and already being a "partner," got to invent a compulsory hardware-licensing scheme.
In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
Get a license from Amiga Inc., both for himself and his hardware.
Become an AmigaOS vendor, distribute AmigaOS together with his hardware and provide software support.
Apply some form of hardware-license verification mechanism, a dongle, to his hardware.
AmigaOS will NOT be sold separate from hardware.
Not very surprisingly, Eyetech is the only distributor that has accepted Amiga Inc's and Eyetech's rules. They are now distributing Mai Logic's Teron CX and Teron PX POP motherboards under the trademarks "AmigaOne SE" and "AmigaOne XE" respectively. (NB: the 4 figure price listed on Mai's Teron CX page is for a developer board including unlimited dev tech support, they sell their commercial version for $500). The market for the exact same hardware is split up into one microscopic "for AmigaOS" part and one "for everyone else" part.
If you're interested in AmigaOS, you're not allowed to buy it. You have to buy a new Teron board via the sole Amiga Inc-licensed hardware distributor Eyetech. You aren't allowed to buy a board cheaper directly from Mai. A very easily made port to other POP boards like e.g. the Pegasos, or to (in comparison) cheaply and abundantly available PowerMacs can't happen until someone decides to become an Amiga Inc licensee and AmigaOS distributor, and renames the hardware to "Amiga."
In one blow, AmigaOS by default lost every possible hardware option on the planet, except for the "licensed" one.
"Why do they not want to sell AmigaOS?" you ask. Who knows. Amiga Inc is a newly formed company that has nothing to do with AmigaOS (and certainly nothing to do with any hardware), their interest lies in selling their "content engine" AACE/AmigaDE to PDA and mobile phone vendors, and distributing third party developers' little games for that thing. Apparently, and judging from their silence in response to e.g. this petition from AmigaOS fans, they seem to just not care as long as they get some licensing cash from a few Teron boards sold to trademark fanatics. The only apparent beneficiary of this damn ludicrous mess is the sole licensed hardware distributor, Eyetech. Hyperion, the company that has taken over AmigaOS development, has repeatedly stated that they themselves naturally are interested in seeing AmigaOS run on as much hardware as possible, and since AmigaOS no longer is tightly coupled to custom chips or something like that, the HAL is very easily portable.
Well, that would of course depend on the type of CPU.
The P4 @ 2.8 GHz in the PC in the article should be OK up to 75C, according to Intel.
I've got a dual Athlon MP 1900+ (i.e. 1660 MHz) box, slightly overclocked to 1740 MHz. Under full CPU load (which is 24/7 thanks to distributed.net) CPU0 temperature is around 50C, and 60C for CPU1 (which I think is weird. CPU1 is close to the graphics card, but I still wouldn't think that this would account for a 10 degree difference.) This is with active air cooling using a couple of WhisperRock II HSFs and Arctic Silver 3 "thermal goo". Anyway, AMD says I'll be fine as long as I stay below 95C! There's a setting in my BIOS that will that shutdown the system if the temp hits a user defined value (80C here), detected by the on-die sensors of the CPUs. I suppose it's the same with the CPU and mobo in the article.
I'd be more worried about the temp of his graphics card. Personally I think I'd keep a quiet fan on the GPU, especially if it's overclocked. In my experience it's the case fans, sucking air in and blowing it out of the case through grilles, cables and plastic decorations that are the noisiest. Get some quiet case fans, or remove them like in this... case... and use some sort of insulation in the box to keep the noise of the internal stuff to a minimum.
You realise of course that you're posting links to more than one year old garbage from amiga.com? All that is irrelevant today, it's from the days when AmigaOS was to be made in-house, and when that embarrassing "Zico hardware specification" joke made its rounds.
Eyetech is the only currently licensed distributor of "Amiga-licensed" hardware. Elbox (makers of a PPC accelerator for old Amigas, which is not yet finished and it'll not be a new computer) have "been in discussions" about a license. That was in June, no licensing has been announced yet. Matay are now distributing the Pegasos and MorphOS - not likely that they'll apply for one of these license jokes.
Get it? And please learn what the term FUD means.
It's unfortunate that outdated crap is allowed to keep spreading misinformation on the amiga.com site, if they won't update it they should at least delete all the old nonsense about "Zico", an OS based on AmigaDE/intent, "AmigaOne 1200/4000" and so on and so on and so on...
> AmigaONE as the only AMIGA is pure BS!!!
True. Thank heavens. Noone will make any "Amigas", no matter how much some people think that (pretending to) try to sell trademark license restrictions to third party hardware distributors and wishing really really hard will change that.
That's just one piece of the unsubstantiated FUD currently being used by competing companies and some of the more blinkered fanatics in the Amiga community.
For starters, they're fundamentally different architectures.
What the article fails to mention is that MorphOS will be shipped on (together with Yellow Dog Linux) an in-house designed POP-based OpenFirmware-equipped motherboard called Pegasos. While different from a New World PowerMac, it's not "fundamentally different architectures". This board already runs OSX with Mac-On-Linux. MorphOS on (reasonably modern) Mac hardware is quite likely, though not in its initial release.
No, there isn't. There will be no more Amigas, instead future versions of AmigaOS will run on third party hardware (and on Amigas with PPC accelerators). Mai Logic's Teron CX POP motherboard is one such piece of hardware, although AmigaOS will only be allowed to run on this board when it's renamed "AmigaOne G3SE" and distributed by Eyetech Ltd.. Hardware must be licensed, provide a hardware-license verification mechanism (known as "anti-piracy measures" in the marketing waffle) and be sold by a licensed distributor in order to be allowed to run AmigaOS, and AmigaOS will only be available bundled with such hardware.
This hardware licensing scheme was designed by Amiga Inc. with "consultation" from Eyetech, and it's hardly surprising that Eyetech is the only hardware distributor that has acquired such a license.
There was once upon a time going to be newly designed, proprietary Amiga hardware, back when Eyetech was a "hardware partner" of Amiga Inc. These "AmigaOne 1200/4000" boards never appeared, and instead third party hardware is to be used (although the advantages of getting rid of "Amiga" hardware are negated with this compulsory licensing madness).
Slashdot Mirror
[AmigaOS] will however not be sold separate from licensed hardware and be allowed to be installed on Teron boards from vendors who are not licensed
...".
Hm, just to make it clear, that's "and NOT be allowed to be installed on
It's not mentioned in the story, but this board is the Teron CX, which is also distributed under the licensed trademark "AmigaOne G3-SE".
There's also a model with the CPU on an exchangeable module, called Teron PX (or "AmigaOne XE" when it's marketed to AmigaOS users). Hopefully we'll see Terrasoft and others selling Teron PX as well, which offers G4 and 750FX (a newer, faster G3 design) CPUs.
Due to a seriously fscked up compulsory licensing policy for AmigaOS, that OS will however not be sold separate from licensed hardware and be allowed to be installed on Teron boards from vendors who are not licensed by Amiga, Inc., like Terrasoft.
P.S. Why is this story under "Apple"? MOL runs fine on these, but come on!
You can imagine a Hollywood rape^H^H^H^H remake of Solaris(!) featuring George Clooney(!!) without either bursting into tears or laughter?
Applause!
I mean, hey! Solaris! The Solaris! You just don't touch things like that. It's as if Disney would get their hands on H-C Andersen stories or A. A. Milne's "Winnie the Pooh"... Oh...
I'm a freebie user, but I think we too have access to the mail forwarding feature.
;)
:) It is "Major," damnit!
What I wonder is, if as a paying user you can set domains/addresses to ignore? You see, all mail I get to my university account is filtered through a virus checking relay, and Spamcop interprets those headers as open relay activity and wants to send reports to abuse@myuniversity, so I have to uncheck those boxes for each spam on the Spamcop site.
If I could set a preference to automatically ignore any headers referring to "myuniversity" domains, Spamcop would have a new customer. And if they could clearly state fixed prices for their service... It's kinda twisted that spam victims should pay for reporting the abuse, in an ideal world Spamcop could charge a fee from the spammers' ISPs for each confirmed abuse report - that might make even the Taiwanese and Chinese ISPs a bit more interested in cooperating...
To get back on topic; as you say, the Mozilla bug would still be there though. I'm happy to see that the number of votes for that bug has more than doubled after I mentioned it here.
The bug I linked to was just an example of a highly disruptive bug. Examples? See my Spamcop example above, or let's say you want to copy-n-paste part of an article into a Slashdot post, or use Mozilla's Composer and paste text/code into that, or paste something into a Bugzilla(!) form, and so on and so forth.
In comparison to that, how many sites actually fail to display at all because of this DHTML bug?
My point was that I don't see the need to retract releases unless they contain harmful bugs.
Crud. Well, copy and paste then. :)
:-P
If someone can't be bothered to do that, that bug is preventing pasting of more than 4000 bytes from other apps into Mozilla. 4kB ain't much, for example pasting spam mails into SpamCop forms usually won't work, most spammers aren't too considerate about the size of their spam...
They retract a release because of this?
I've been waiting for ages for a fix to e.g. this bug which renders Mozilla useless for quite a bunch of purposes. Still I wouldn't see a reason to retract the releases containing bugs like that, unless we're talking about serious security holes.
"an effort to help other comic creators improve their art"
:)
Are you reading this? Now all you have to hope for is another effort to help comic creators make their comics funny.
Bleh.
Now that NASA have adopted SI units for measuring distances just like the rest of the civilised world has done for the last century or so, especially for scientific projects like, say, Mars landings, they have just started to tackle the problem of using SI units for measuring time. Those newfangled seconds, hours and days! *grumble*
;)
I bet they wonder which month is the 19th when they see the date correctly written as 2002-11-19 or 19/11...
It wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with "misfolded" proteins.
;)
Cell signalling has everything to do with tertiary protein structures and everything to do with controlling the life cycles of cells - i.e. finding new (or more specific/effective) approaches to - for example - cancer therapy.
Drug specificity is gained through precise drug-receptor interactions. Receptors are proteins. The more exactly you know the receptor structure, the more specifically you can design your drug. Being able to predict different tertiary protein structures (foldings) from only the known DNA sequence mutations can only be A Good Thing, and having a crapload of computers around the world doing part of the job for free is nice.
Though I'm not gonna participate unless I get royalties from any patents/drugs that may come out of all this...
"No new Amigas"? I'm sorry but Eyetech's license for the "Amiga" trademark from Amiga Inc. is perfectly valid.
Did I question the validity of someone's trademark license? I'm sure everything's signed and sealed. It's the invention of those two companies after all.
The AmigaOne is an "Amiga" wether you think of it as such or not.
Oh yeah? And my daddy is stronger than your daddy! Lalalala-I-can't-hear-you!
What the hell kind of argument was that supposed to be?
An Amiga was a home computer system that ran AmigaOS. The same company made both the hardware and the OS. The hardware was a custom job, as all computers back then, and the OS was dependent on custom chips and tightly coupled to the Amiga hardware. The hardware and the OS were made for eachother.
Those days are over. THANK GOD! Unless some industry giant or inhumanly rich hardware genius comes along and pulls out the fastest, most advanced and cheapest hardware anyone's ever seen - and can keep up with development and pricing - then "new Amiga hardware" is something to fear.
AmigaOS is all that is left today, and you simply cannot have avoided that nobody makes or is planning to make any hardware with AmigaOS in mind, especially not Amiga Inc. Instead AmigaOS will run on third party hardware. No, you haven't missed that.
> I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000"
> motherboards are still praised somewhere on the
> horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
You should really try reading the official information available from Amiga Inc. before citisizing them. Your speculations are not appreciated, Seehund.
Oh well. Here is my "speculation." While you read it and weep, please note the old humourous references to an operating system based on "AmigaDE". It's really good for a laugh. Ooooh, they've got that embarrassing old Zico joke still up there! "AmigaOS will run on... ummm... a computer... with some processor of some kind... And a next generation Matrox GFX card! That's mighty important!"
That garbage is linked to from THE FRONT PAGE of the "corporate" site.
Your disappreciation of my "speculation" is not appreciated... Go troll on amiga.org or something.
> In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of
> hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
That should read; "In order for your product to be officially AmigaOS4 licensed, the hardware vendor has to:".
Which is synonymous in this case. What the FUCK is your problem?
AmigaOS vendor? Please elaborate, I have no idea of what you're refering to. You do NOT have to distribute AmigaOS4 with your licensed product.
"we will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it."
A licensed product == a dongled product (required for licensing) == a board that is capable of running AmigaOS.
What you intentionally keep misunderstanding is that when you decide to ship AmigaOS4 with your product, it must have the hardware verification binaries installed on some kind of ROM attached to the hardware. Preferably a FlashROM, but a USB dongle for example, would do the work as well.
I've had it with you. I have said THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING as quoted above FOR EIGHT DAMN MONTHS, and I even said IN THE VERY SAME POST that you're replying to, and you start babbling about me failing to understand?
The hardware vendor does NOT have to provide support for AmigaOS4. On the contrary, Amiga Inc. is willing to provide support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services.
That's total bollocks. Amiga Inc has NOTHING to do with AmigaOS apart from the trademark and license.
There's nothing more odd about this policy than the one of Apple and their MacOS ROM images.
With the "minor" difference of course that Apple design, make and sell, and make a living out of selling, THEIR OWN DAMN HARDWARE, with which they can do what the fuck they want! You might have heard of that hardware, it's called Macintosh.
However, the difference is that Amiga Inc. allows *anyone* to become an Amiga hardware manufacturer rather than Apple's total MacOS hardware monopoly. On top of that, they're willing to provide customer support for the licensed hardware as a part of their AmigaOS4 services. Does all this really sound so awful?
"Amiga Inc ALLOWS anyone to become an AMIGA HARDWARE manufacturer"? And you compare the AmigaOS situation with Apple's OWN HARDWARE? And you top it off with basically saying "it doesn't suck because it sucks less than another totally unrelated and incomparable and irrelevant thing that really sucks"?
Begone. You made me SHOUT. My brain hurts.
I wouldn't know, Bill Buck (loose-lipped CEO of Thendic, vendor of the Pegasos POP mobo and the "AmigaOS classic" compatible MorphOS, for those who wonder) has not yet shared any private correspondence regarding that... ;)
The "word on the street" is that Hyperion only filled out and faxed back a survey of interest sent out to potentially interested developers some time last year, and then never actually ordered a board.
I see there's a thread on ANN.lu now, and from Buck's posts there it seems like Hyperion haven't contacted them since February, and there's also a public PR stunt about inviting Hyperion's Ben Hermans to lunch and offering a Pegasos board.
I seriously doubt that Hyperion - or anyone else - would actually be refused to buy a piece of hardware by anyone.
If an OS is to be ported to another piece of hardware (and the Pegasos and TeronCX are nearly identical in that respect), it's of course up to the software vendor/developer to make it happen, nobody else. Again, it's not as if it's difficult to get hold of a Pegasos (or a friggin' Mac or whatever).
OTOH it's pretty pointless for Hyperion to start porting the OS to any hardware, until some hypothetical distributor rides in on a white horse waving a license and a dongle. That's the obstacle which must be removed.
The big issue is not what preoccupies a few fanatic trolls in the Amiga community, i.e. some kind of twisted, invented animosity and faction-forming among people who for one reason or another have "chosen" one POP board over another, or one Amiga-classic emulating OS over another. It's about the survival of AmigaOS and its dependency on the availability of hardware options, which unfortunately are things largely ignored in the pathetic flamewars.
It doesn't matter what the heck kind of hardware-license verification mechanism Eyetech happened to have chowen (which are socketed ROMs).
l ing requirement made on hardware vendors, whereas a hardware vendor has the option to sell his hardware normally to everyone else. Which option is more attractive?
It's totally irrelevant if it's a dongle in ROM or a requirement to paint the southbridge chip blue.
Other hypothetical licencees are "free" to choose another method, like a USB dongle - which serves as an excellent illustration of why the silly "anti piracy" excuse I've seen used is total and utter bollocks. A USB dongle is no more secure just because a hardware vendor is forced to supply it with his hardware, than it is if it's supplied with a separately sold copy of AmigaOS!
No, Thendic haven't said that they'll get a license. They have said that they'd love to see AmigaOS run on their hardware, the Pegasos mobo.
In the Normal (non-Amiga) world this means just that, that the software vendor ports his software, prints "runs on hardware X" on the CD cover, and tries to SELL as MANY COPIES as possible of his software!
No, the license is not free. There might be no fee, but there are royalties to use the licensed "Amiga" trademark. It wouldn't matter even if that would be free - there's still a licensing/bundling/OS-selling-and-supporting/dong
Do you think Apple will be interested in an Amiga license for their Macs? Do you think that even if someone else licensed/dongled a batch of Macs and distributed them with AmigaOS, it would be OK to not let AmigaOS and its customers have access to the ENTIRE Mac market, regardless of vendors and bundling/licensing agreements?
It's a sick situation, and it's killing AmigaOS.
Exactly. Not only theoretically, but practically.
The bare board (Teron CX) is $300 without a CPU, in single specimens. Buy a container load, and...
One thing that's f*cked up is that potential AmigaOS users wouldn't be allowed to buy those boards, because they wouldn't be dongled, bundled with AmigaOS and sold via a licensed distributor.
"We will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it" - there has to be two separate markets, one dongled/bundled/licensed/microscopic/overpriced "for AmigaOS customers" and one normal "for everyone else."
1. Amiga Inc is behind the hardware
No, they're not. Not at all.
It's Amiga Inc's decision to have AmigaOS run on third party hardware. In this case they license the "AmigaOne" trademark to one of the distributors of these Teron CX/PX motherboards, Eyetech. Just like they intend to license the trademark to any other hypothetical licensee of any other feasible hardware (too damn bad that there's a licensing requirement for AmigaOS to run on a piece of hardware in the first place though).
Mai Logic is behind the hardware. The hardware has been sold by them since august 2001.
2. Same reason you can call PPC Macs for Macs.
No, we call Macs "Macs" because Apple made them, designed them and sold them, and Apple call their machines Macs.
What the story refers to as "Amigas" are POP boards designed and made by Mai Logic, and now one new distributor, Eyetech, is just starting to distribute them under the licensed trademark "AmigaOne".
3. It runs AmigaOS.
So does any x86 box with Amithlon or another emulator. AmigaOS 4 and beyond will run on third party hardware, which unfortunately has to be licensed/bundled/dongled. So if someone licensed a Titanium Powerbook, would that be any more or less "Amiga" than the Teron CX board? How about a Pegasos POP board? A Barbie POP board?
The Amiga is dead, long live AmigaOS. Let's just hope that Amiga Inc. realise their mistake to effectively eradicate the advantages of running on third party hardware by inventing the braindead and harmful compulsory hardware licensing requirement.
People don't care about whether some distributor has slapped an Amiga sticker on a piece of hardware, when they can buy the exact same hardware elsewhere for less money, and when there's nothing "special" (better) about the hardware other than the higher price.
Amiga finally releases new hardware.
Heh. You'll still have to wait for that miracle to happen. Amiga Inc. has nothing to do with hardware (and not much to do with AmigaOS besides the trademark).
What this story is reporting is that yet another distributor has started distributing Mai Logic's Teron series motherboards (but using an "AmigaOne" trademark this time, instead of for example Phoenix, like another distributor uses to sell the same mobo). The story submitter probably got carried away when reading the marketing and seeing "Amiga" in the blurb.
No, there are no "new Amigas." No, nobody will make any "new Amigas."
Hardware has no longer got anything to do with anything "Amiga."
Once upon a time (almost two years ago), the UK Amiga shop Eyetech became "hardware partners" of the new company "Amiga Inc." They were to provide actual new PPC Amiga hardware, and contracted the German firm Escena to design it. This failed. I'm sure those "AmigaOne 1200/4000" motherboards are still praised somewhere on the horribly outdated amiga.com web site.
Instead, AmigaOS 4 and newer will run on third party PPC hardware. That could of course have been fantastic news, but for some reason Eyetech, as a thank you for services not rendered and already being a "partner," got to invent a compulsory hardware-licensing scheme.
In order to see AmigaOS run on a piece of hardware, a hardware vendor has to:
AmigaOS will NOT be sold separate from hardware.
Not very surprisingly, Eyetech is the only distributor that has accepted Amiga Inc's and Eyetech's rules. They are now distributing Mai Logic's Teron CX and Teron PX POP motherboards under the trademarks "AmigaOne SE" and "AmigaOne XE" respectively. (NB: the 4 figure price listed on Mai's Teron CX page is for a developer board including unlimited dev tech support, they sell their commercial version for $500). The market for the exact same hardware is split up into one microscopic "for AmigaOS" part and one "for everyone else" part.
If you're interested in AmigaOS, you're not allowed to buy it. You have to buy a new Teron board via the sole Amiga Inc-licensed hardware distributor Eyetech. You aren't allowed to buy a board cheaper directly from Mai. A very easily made port to other POP boards like e.g. the Pegasos, or to (in comparison) cheaply and abundantly available PowerMacs can't happen until someone decides to become an Amiga Inc licensee and AmigaOS distributor, and renames the hardware to "Amiga."
In one blow, AmigaOS by default lost every possible hardware option on the planet, except for the "licensed" one.
"Why do they not want to sell AmigaOS?" you ask. Who knows. Amiga Inc is a newly formed company that has nothing to do with AmigaOS (and certainly nothing to do with any hardware), their interest lies in selling their "content engine" AACE/AmigaDE to PDA and mobile phone vendors, and distributing third party developers' little games for that thing. Apparently, and judging from their silence in response to e.g. this petition from AmigaOS fans, they seem to just not care as long as they get some licensing cash from a few Teron boards sold to trademark fanatics. The only apparent beneficiary of this damn ludicrous mess is the sole licensed hardware distributor, Eyetech. Hyperion, the company that has taken over AmigaOS development, has repeatedly stated that they themselves naturally are interested in seeing AmigaOS run on as much hardware as possible, and since AmigaOS no longer is tightly coupled to custom chips or something like that, the HAL is very easily portable.
Yep.
:D
A not only funny, but also an interesting and on-topic Beowulf cluster post!
It begs a question to those who haven't forgotten all their high-school physics like me:
How does loudness / sound volume scale with the number of sound generators, i.e. how much louder are 10 PCs together, compared to one PC?
Well, that would of course depend on the type of CPU.
The P4 @ 2.8 GHz in the PC in the article should be OK up to 75C, according to Intel.
I've got a dual Athlon MP 1900+ (i.e. 1660 MHz) box, slightly overclocked to 1740 MHz. Under full CPU load (which is 24/7 thanks to distributed.net) CPU0 temperature is around 50C, and 60C for CPU1 (which I think is weird. CPU1 is close to the graphics card, but I still wouldn't think that this would account for a 10 degree difference.) This is with active air cooling using a couple of WhisperRock II HSFs and Arctic Silver 3 "thermal goo".
Anyway, AMD says I'll be fine as long as I stay below 95C! There's a setting in my BIOS that will that shutdown the system if the temp hits a user defined value (80C here), detected by the on-die sensors of the CPUs. I suppose it's the same with the CPU and mobo in the article.
I'd be more worried about the temp of his graphics card. Personally I think I'd keep a quiet fan on the GPU, especially if it's overclocked. In my experience it's the case fans, sucking air in and blowing it out of the case through grilles, cables and plastic decorations that are the noisiest. Get some quiet case fans, or remove them like in this... case... and use some sort of insulation in the box to keep the noise of the internal stuff to a minimum.
Heh.
;)
> if you clicked anywhere else it would call you a coward.
Well, AFAIK that's default behaviour of everything in MacOS pre-X. Wonderful one-and-a-half-tasking.
You realise of course that you're posting links to more than one year old garbage from amiga.com? All that is irrelevant today, it's from the days when AmigaOS was to be made in-house, and when that embarrassing "Zico hardware specification" joke made its rounds.
Eyetech is the only currently licensed distributor of "Amiga-licensed" hardware. Elbox (makers of a PPC accelerator for old Amigas, which is not yet finished and it'll not be a new computer) have "been in discussions" about a license. That was in June, no licensing has been announced yet. Matay are now distributing the Pegasos and MorphOS - not likely that they'll apply for one of these license jokes.
Get it? And please learn what the term FUD means.
It's unfortunate that outdated crap is allowed to keep spreading misinformation on the amiga.com site, if they won't update it they should at least delete all the old nonsense about "Zico", an OS based on AmigaDE/intent, "AmigaOne 1200/4000" and so on and so on and so on...
> AmigaONE as the only AMIGA is pure BS!!!
True. Thank heavens. Noone will make any "Amigas", no matter how much some people think that (pretending to) try to sell trademark license restrictions to third party hardware distributors and wishing really really hard will change that.
That's just one piece of the unsubstantiated FUD currently being used by competing companies and some of the more blinkered fanatics in the Amiga community.
highly unlikely.
For starters, they're fundamentally different architectures.
What the article fails to mention is that MorphOS will be shipped on (together with Yellow Dog Linux) an in-house designed POP-based OpenFirmware-equipped motherboard called Pegasos. While different from a New World PowerMac, it's not "fundamentally different architectures". This board already runs OSX with Mac-On-Linux. MorphOS on (reasonably modern) Mac hardware is quite likely, though not in its initial release.
"New Amiga One"? Is there a NEW Amiga?
No, there isn't. There will be no more Amigas, instead future versions of AmigaOS will run on third party hardware (and on Amigas with PPC accelerators). Mai Logic's Teron CX POP motherboard is one such piece of hardware, although AmigaOS will only be allowed to run on this board when it's renamed "AmigaOne G3SE" and distributed by Eyetech Ltd.. Hardware must be licensed, provide a hardware-license verification mechanism (known as "anti-piracy measures" in the marketing waffle) and be sold by a licensed distributor in order to be allowed to run AmigaOS, and AmigaOS will only be available bundled with such hardware.
This hardware licensing scheme was designed by Amiga Inc. with "consultation" from Eyetech, and it's hardly surprising that Eyetech is the only hardware distributor that has acquired such a license.
There was once upon a time going to be newly designed, proprietary Amiga hardware, back when Eyetech was a "hardware partner" of Amiga Inc. These "AmigaOne 1200/4000" boards never appeared, and instead third party hardware is to be used (although the advantages of getting rid of "Amiga" hardware are negated with this compulsory licensing madness).
Read more about it here.