The acronym "P.E." doesn't mean anything to me, nor did the term "computer-based training" at first sight. English is not my native language, plus I came right out of bed, and despite all my geek knowledge I could not even figure out what it was about, so I went searching:) Google, gracefully as always, returned this to the sleepy reader: "The use of software and computer equipment to aid in teaching. Software used in CBT is typically given the name courseware." Oh. Training in general, doh:) In concrete, the Macromedia article link mentions creating HTML, audio and video tutorials. More searches point me to courses themselves, not the software to create them. It's a pity, there doesn't seem any open-source IDE to be around..
So, I can't help. But I hope this context might be useful for others. And uh, good morning Europe:)
Exactly. There are quite a few KDE/GNOME/kernel developers paid by Linux distributions. Quotes like this make me wonder whether the whole article wasn't meant to spread FUD about UnitedLinux in the first place. I applaud Slashdot for still posting negative press, but it doesn't make any interesting news...
Re:Sorry, stupid Q: What is an ABI?
on
GCC 3.2 Released
·
· Score: 2
Hmm.. I remember this problem from another polymorph imperative language: what if a procedure has a LOT of parameters? Don't you quickly overrun the maximum identifier length then?
The 4.6.1 release was announced as the next release, but it never happened. Why? If it is that much a PR blunder to admit that something went wrong, why still increase the version number?
Sorry, but I consider you as a spammer. Diving into your posted messages, I see several COSA promotions, and never a good reply or any example of COSA's alleged superiority. Nice to see that you have some ideals, but claiming that this is the silver bullet is arrogant nonsense. Such an attitude won't bring you far. At least Dijkstra was a humble wise man, and a great algorithms scientist. I don't think you respected the man, by posting this message - if Dijkstra had been still alive, he'd probably told you to chill out until you've got something which is not vaporware. No thanks.
Thanks for your lengthy explanation. I'm European, and I had not ever heard of such a thing. I think I get the context a bit. To be honest, this 'pledge' sounds very conservative and a bit like an old patriotic communist system. I mean, to indoctrinate children on schools with political and religious shit like this - I'm very happy that I've never been drilled like that! One cynic note: Saddam Hussein recently made it compulsory for all Iraqi children to know his nationalist novels..
Sorry, but I want to defend the judge a bit. For some stupid reason, this information has been ordered to remain secret. Just like Americans would hide information on their president's plane from terrorists. The judge didn't say anything about hyperlinks in general, he only spoke about Indymedia's intent. Even if it wasn't a link but a Javascript-generated rot13ed copy sung as a MP3 but clearly marked as illegal, it should be judged that way. Case by case, without generalizations. Free speech is an important right. But that's what we have judges for. (As much as I hate them, and yes, I'm Dutch.)
Seriously, any news here? This is just the usual rambling on piracy, which -despite all obvious exaggerations- is a problem, as it has always been for decades. But that headline shows zealotry on its finest. Microsoft has evil business practices, but it has human employees after all. DOH!
Okay, but lots of other people have become angry too on other current reasons. For example because they post 'free' (as in freedom) comments on Slashdot, while Hemos says that replicating Slashdot comments is a copyright violation (he is right in that, btw). An option 'this comment is covered by license X' could solve that easily. Seriously, what if you require paying moderators to have a karma > 50 ? I think there are a lot of fair options to make interested people pay, without offending the freeloaders.
I wonder whether CmdrTaco and Hemos really enjoyed the chat. Slashnet was overcrowded by trolls, there were lots of double questions about the ads and subscriptions and I think the Slashdot staff *does* have a mixed feeling on 'going non-free', but they can't go back. According to the logs, already 1,5% of the Slashdot visitors is a paying subscriber. I don't want to sound ungrateful for Slashdot, but some crew change might be welcome too. Slashdot has become a habit - the editors no longer feel obliged to fix half-wrong stories, they don't realize that they piss off a customer with every rejected submission and I think CmdrTaco has rejected *lots* of good ideas tonight. He seems to stick on only no-ads and gold stars, and little extra power for subscribers. Come on Taco, you aren't a suit - some things might not be too easy in Slash (submission of polls, access to the submission queue, a trusted net of paying moderators) but they will prove more robust and much cooler than this ripped-out-of-any-book business model. That's my point: Slashdot gets boring. I hate to see this leading weblog go the same road as so many others.. this is not another troll, Slashdot will be as interesting as it ever was, but the specialty is gone. Hey, we're a community! I liked the chat, but Taco hardly *listened*:( I wish him luck nevertheless.
I've only read negative comments so far. Actually, I *read* that pdf the last hour and I didn't find it really shocking. It is good to see the European Commision do a study on this topic. The European Commission seems to recognize that DRMs easily cause trouble because they can take away our rights. The PDF says that lawful use of protected media must remain possible. What's wrong with that? I haven't found any phrase which proposes to forbid hardware that does *not* implement DRM. That is what the SSSCA is about, what nobody here will want and what I hope many politicians in Europe will oppose too. There is some DMCA-alike speech, however: 'legal safeguards are essential to support technological measures and protect them against unlawful circumvention and these are already in place' - but that is already much more subtle than the general definition of a 'circumvention device' that the USA have defined. I live in The Netherlands and I might be naive, but I just haven't seen the proof yet, that a European SSSCA would come to exist. Good to keep an eye on this matter, but where is that proof? This seems Slashdot-hype again..
Now that this is off the front page, it might indeed be wise to add this. (Lots of trolls here.. therefore posting at +2, even if it's only a shameless confession) I posted this message to Slashdot as an answer to all the people who asked 'ALSA? Okay, but what does it DO?' I have been able to help a few people on the alsa-user mailinglist, but I do not have insight in the code base. I should not have yelled 'Believe me, the ALSA code base rocks.' as that was only based on about nine different cards that I have myself gotten working on different machines with ALSA and often not with OSS in the last two years. I successfully tested the commercial OSS drivers on SuSE 6.4 a while ago, I do not work for them or something like that. I haven't lied anywhere. I am not a troll; I want to tell people why I like ALSA even if I don't understand the inner design. Sorry if I might have an authoritative tone on that. You win from me any time.:) Anyway, I learnt from your message, though I don't understand your point on priority inversion. I would guess that the low-level layer defines whether what cards work. That is ALSA-specific and new with this merge, isn't it? Thanks and see you!
ALSA has been merged into the development Linux kernel, version 2.5.5-pre1, not 2.5.4 as mentioned in the title. Bad Slashdot editors..:(
Jaroslav Kysela, a Czech developer paid by SuSE, has worked for years to create and lead the ALSA project. It's GPL - its code has always been intended to go into the mainstream kernel and replace the OSS code. Linus has just done so.
Okay, what does it do: ALSA is just a set of utilities, general code and drivers for soundcards. After 4Front Technologies went commercial with OSS some years ago, Linux did not have supported GPLed soundcard drivers anymore. The commercial OSS-drivers are up-to-date, but those in the Linux kernel are old. A lot of obscure soundcards are currently only supported under Linux by either adding the commercial binary OSS modules, or adding the ALSA modules to your kernel. For example, my Aztech 2320 and Mediaforte cards that wouldn't even work with the legacy Win95 drivers (newer aren't to be found anywhere), nor with the old OSS, but they work very cleanly with ALSA since two years. Believe me, the ALSA codebase rocks. It has been stable for a long time and is good enough to add to your 2.4 kernel yourself. Visit the web site, it's just as easy as compiling any other module. And uh, before you all flood the ALSA mailinglists, start alsamixer first before testing, because all channels start muted as default:)
Ha! An -ac kernel! Alan Cox saved my days too - I haven't had a single problem with 2.4. I ran 2.4.3-pre6 for half a year, then went to 2.4.9-ac18 when the security and Linus' VM problems in 2.4.9 became known, and I've been running 2.4.13-ac2 since October.
To be honest, indeed I can't be really proud on the 2.4 series, but I hate to see it get this bad press now that Marcelo Tosatti is doing such good work. If you missed it, he has started doing prereleases to prevent Linus' 0-day blunders like 2.4.11 and 2.4.15. Linus might argue that that's slowing down development - I think it will give better timing and a better version names.
I will stay running the 2.4 series, but this release seems news to me. I understood that some basic i/o has been rewritten during the 2.5.2-pre cycle, and I guess that 2.5 is now stable enough for new features like inclusion of ALSA and CML2. Does anyone have a link to some 2.5 kernel planning?
Mod this up, this *should* have been in the posting itself, though it's in Dutch.
The linux.be forum already has lots of interesting comments (in Dutch as well..)
I'm Dutch, but - as a good EU citizen - I'm going to write them a nice letter..
1) This is a sheep in wolfsclothes - if the poor can't buy a computer, they can't buy add-on software for Windows - they'll have to cope with StarOffice or Gimp then anyway.
2) Who is going to pay the connection to the Internet? If they think to broaden the access to e-commerce, well, if you're poor you aren't going to spend a cent on e-commerce anyway.
3) Who is actually interested? The people that really deserve a machine because they haven't got one, will have a lot of work trying to learn handling a computer.
4) The government is NOT helping equality - competitors to the x86 platform such as Sun, competitors to Microsoft such as Linux are ruled out by the government. I see some lawsuits ahead..
There are a lot of good reasons why 'a free computer for everyone!' is not a good idea this way.
No, karma hasn't got to do with it - my karma is 37 now. Read the faq. The "omelette" part sounds the least convincing to me - if it's interesting nerd news, why not post it *now*? Do the math: it wouldn't generate more stories, but posting news sooner would shorten the submission queue. Plus it's less a disgrace to us users.</sulk>
Wow, searching on whistling would even be more unbelievable! One would fear lots of duplicates, problems with unpure/shifted whistling - it really sounds like vaporware and the site is down as well:) But it would really help to find out whether Michael Jackson really ripped that number one hit..;)
Offtopic: * 2001-11-30 12:33:57 Mobile Phone System Identifies Music (science,news) (rejected) -- This was originally a New Scientist article indeed. All my submitted stories so far have been rejected, only to be accepted weeks later in a worse write-up by someone else. I will submit no more stories - it seems a huge waste of effort to me. No thanks.
Where lies in your opinion the boundary between anti-competitive functionality and "improving the users' experience"?
By now, everybody is used to bundling a browser with the OS. But what about video-editing software? The (Sun) Java VM or the.NET Common Language Runtime? Passport? etcetera..
Hm, now I told a big story and I didn't answer your question..:)
In Fidonet, there weren't such things as 'archiving all discussions'. In 1990 that would cost way too much hard disk space. I really wonder how Google did this: some mad freak must still have archived a lot. Is there a submit page somewhere on Google? Maybe someone else has relevant archives of FidoNet echos.. strange idea that you might even get money for keeping those backups around..:)
The only chance that those messages are saved is that someone - a point, BBS, hub, whatever - made copies of these public posts and wants to submit them to Google. If that 'academic network' of yours wasn't part of FidoNet, that chance is even smaller.
There! I was wondering for the same. I'm only 21, but seven years ago that's where I was - the local Dutch echos of FidoNet, and Fido-alike networks. First, I was a 'point' (iirc, for example the 1 in 2:212/3.1 ) and I used the DOS-program BlueWave to receive the newest echo packets, creating my own messages and sending them to the world via my phone line. A friend of mine had a BBS (he would have been 2:212/3) where I called in. He had "Remote Access" running (he always called it RA), with a cracked copy of FastEcho 1.30 ordering the mail for every point. The BBS synchronized itself with the rest of the network by calling to a hub every night, etc. As I became tired of BlueWave, I installed FastEcho (the mailsorter), GoldEd (a mailer, TimEd was also nice) and Terminate 3.0 (the calling program, something shareware like Telix.. The only thing I remember about it was that it was coded by a Dane and it had copyright notices *everywhere*. Of course I ran the cracked version.) Ahhh, history..
Now I read e-mail instead of 'netmail'. I'm using Pine instead of GoldEd. I tend to think that GoldEd was better than pine. I want [->] as "Next Message" again in 'full message view' format. No, that's not the same as pine's arrow-mode.. tin, pan, whatever.. golded is the way I'd want to read newsgroups. Maybe I should check out goldedplus. It's even a Debian package. But it looks not too easy to set up.
Let's not decide on what 'most users' want, but the flat fee model simply doesn't exist for phone services in The Netherlands. The USA has had that for decades! For mobile phones, the same: I know a lot of students who would like to pay $20 each month, for sending/receiving an unlimited number of 160 bytes bandwidth, also called an 'sms message' (atm, sending one of those costs you about $0,20 here..)
Slashdot Mirror
The acronym "P.E." doesn't mean anything to me, nor did the term "computer-based training" at first sight. English is not my native language, plus I came right out of bed, and despite all my geek knowledge I could not even figure out what it was about, so I went searching :) :) In concrete, the Macromedia article link mentions creating HTML, audio and video tutorials. More searches point me to courses themselves, not the software to create them. It's a pity, there doesn't seem any open-source IDE to be around..
:)
Google, gracefully as always, returned this to the sleepy reader: "The use of software and computer equipment to aid in teaching. Software used in CBT is typically given the name courseware." Oh. Training in general, doh
So, I can't help. But I hope this context might be useful for others. And uh, good morning Europe
Exactly. There are quite a few KDE/GNOME/kernel developers paid by Linux distributions. Quotes like this make me wonder whether the whole article wasn't meant to spread FUD about UnitedLinux in the first place. I applaud Slashdot for still posting negative press, but it doesn't make any interesting news...
Hmm.. I remember this problem from another polymorph imperative language: what if a procedure has a LOT of parameters? Don't you quickly overrun the maximum identifier length then?
The 4.6.1 release was announced as the next release, but it never happened. Why? If it is that much a PR blunder to admit that something went wrong, why still increase the version number?
Sorry, but I consider you as a spammer. Diving into your posted messages, I see several COSA promotions, and never a good reply or any example of COSA's alleged superiority. Nice to see that you have some ideals, but claiming that this is the silver bullet is arrogant nonsense. Such an attitude won't bring you far. At least Dijkstra was a humble wise man, and a great algorithms scientist. I don't think you respected the man, by posting this message - if Dijkstra had been still alive, he'd probably told you to chill out until you've got something which is not vaporware.
No thanks.
Does your 'absolute requirement' run on my Unix internet pc? And how much of the exact 0 viruses that ever infected it would require it?
Thanks for your lengthy explanation. I'm European, and I had not ever heard of such a thing. I think I get the context a bit. To be honest, this 'pledge' sounds very conservative and a bit like an old patriotic communist system. I mean, to indoctrinate children on schools with political and religious shit like this - I'm very happy that I've never been drilled like that! One cynic note: Saddam Hussein recently made it compulsory for all Iraqi children to know his nationalist novels..
Sorry, but I want to defend the judge a bit. For some stupid reason, this information has been ordered to remain secret. Just like Americans would hide information on their president's plane from terrorists. The judge didn't say anything about hyperlinks in general, he only spoke about Indymedia's intent. Even if it wasn't a link but a Javascript-generated rot13ed copy sung as a MP3 but clearly marked as illegal, it should be judged that way. Case by case, without generalizations. Free speech is an important right. But that's what we have judges for. (As much as I hate them, and yes, I'm Dutch.)
Seriously, any news here? This is just the usual rambling on piracy, which -despite all obvious exaggerations- is a problem, as it has always been for decades. But that headline shows zealotry on its finest. Microsoft has evil business practices, but it has human employees after all. DOH!
Okay, but lots of other people have become angry too on other current reasons. For example because they post 'free' (as in freedom) comments on Slashdot, while Hemos says that replicating Slashdot comments is a copyright violation (he is right in that, btw). An option 'this comment is covered by license X' could solve that easily.
Seriously, what if you require paying moderators to have a karma > 50 ? I think there are a lot of fair options to make interested people pay, without offending the freeloaders.
I wonder whether CmdrTaco and Hemos really enjoyed the chat. Slashnet was overcrowded by trolls, there were lots of double questions about the ads and subscriptions and I think the Slashdot staff *does* have a mixed feeling on 'going non-free', but they can't go back. According to the logs, already 1,5% of the Slashdot visitors is a paying subscriber. :( I wish him luck nevertheless.
I don't want to sound ungrateful for Slashdot, but some crew change might be welcome too. Slashdot has become a habit - the editors no longer feel obliged to fix half-wrong stories, they don't realize that they piss off a customer with every rejected submission and I think CmdrTaco has rejected *lots* of good ideas tonight. He seems to stick on only no-ads and gold stars, and little extra power for subscribers. Come on Taco, you aren't a suit - some things might not be too easy in Slash (submission of polls, access to the submission queue, a trusted net of paying moderators) but they will prove more robust and much cooler than this ripped-out-of-any-book business model. That's my point: Slashdot gets boring. I hate to see this leading weblog go the same road as so many others.. this is not another troll, Slashdot will be as interesting as it ever was, but the specialty is gone. Hey, we're a community! I liked the chat, but Taco hardly *listened*
I've only read negative comments so far. Actually, I *read* that pdf the last hour and I didn't find it really shocking. It is good to see the European Commision do a study on this topic. The European Commission seems to recognize that DRMs easily cause trouble because they can take away our rights. The PDF says that lawful use of protected media must remain possible. What's wrong with that? I haven't found any phrase which proposes to forbid hardware that does *not* implement DRM. That is what the SSSCA is about, what nobody here will want and what I hope many politicians in Europe will oppose too. There is some DMCA-alike speech, however: 'legal safeguards are essential to support technological measures and protect them against unlawful circumvention and these are already in place' - but that is already much more subtle than the general definition of a 'circumvention device' that the USA have defined.
I live in The Netherlands and I might be naive, but I just haven't seen the proof yet, that a European SSSCA would come to exist. Good to keep an eye on this matter, but where is that proof? This seems Slashdot-hype again..
would be a typical SMS message to expect.. :L
Now that this is off the front page, it might indeed be wise to add this. (Lots of trolls here.. therefore posting at +2, even if it's only a shameless confession) :) Anyway, I learnt from your message, though I don't understand your point on priority inversion. I would guess that the low-level layer defines whether what cards work. That is ALSA-specific and new with this merge, isn't it?
I posted this message to Slashdot as an answer to all the people who asked 'ALSA? Okay, but what does it DO?' I have been able to help a few people on the alsa-user mailinglist, but I do not have insight in the code base. I should not have yelled 'Believe me, the ALSA code base rocks.' as that was only based on about nine different cards that I have myself gotten working on different machines with ALSA and often not with OSS in the last two years. I successfully tested the commercial OSS drivers on SuSE 6.4 a while ago, I do not work for them or something like that.
I haven't lied anywhere. I am not a troll; I want to tell people why I like ALSA even if I don't understand the inner design. Sorry if I might have an authoritative tone on that. You win from me any time.
Thanks and see you!
ALSA has been merged into the development Linux kernel, version 2.5.5-pre1, not 2.5.4 as mentioned in the title. Bad Slashdot editors.. :(
:)
Jaroslav Kysela, a Czech developer paid by SuSE, has worked for years to create and lead the ALSA project. It's GPL - its code has always been intended to go into the mainstream kernel and replace the OSS code. Linus has just done so.
Okay, what does it do: ALSA is just a set of utilities, general code and drivers for soundcards. After 4Front Technologies went commercial with OSS some years ago, Linux did not have supported GPLed soundcard drivers anymore. The commercial OSS-drivers are up-to-date, but those in the Linux kernel are old. A lot of obscure soundcards are currently only supported under Linux by either adding the commercial binary OSS modules, or adding the ALSA modules to your kernel. For example, my Aztech 2320 and Mediaforte cards that wouldn't even work with the legacy Win95 drivers (newer aren't to be found anywhere), nor with the old OSS, but they work very cleanly with ALSA since two years. Believe me, the ALSA codebase rocks. It has been stable for a long time and is good enough to add to your 2.4 kernel yourself. Visit the web site, it's just as easy as compiling any other module. And uh, before you all flood the ALSA mailinglists, start alsamixer first before testing, because all channels start muted as default
Ha! An -ac kernel! Alan Cox saved my days too - I haven't had a single problem with 2.4. I ran 2.4.3-pre6 for half a year, then went to 2.4.9-ac18 when the security and Linus' VM problems in 2.4.9 became known, and I've been running 2.4.13-ac2 since October.
To be honest, indeed I can't be really proud on the 2.4 series, but I hate to see it get this bad press now that Marcelo Tosatti is doing such good work. If you missed it, he has started doing prereleases to prevent Linus' 0-day blunders like 2.4.11 and 2.4.15. Linus might argue that that's slowing down development - I think it will give better timing and a better version names.
I will stay running the 2.4 series, but this release seems news to me. I understood that some basic i/o has been rewritten during the 2.5.2-pre cycle, and I guess that 2.5 is now stable enough for new features like inclusion of ALSA and CML2. Does anyone have a link to some 2.5 kernel planning?
Wow, I'm proud of myself.. "a sheep in wolfsclothes".. please note that reversed. :)
Mod this up, this *should* have been in the posting itself, though it's in Dutch.
The linux.be forum already has lots of interesting comments (in Dutch as well..)
I'm Dutch, but - as a good EU citizen - I'm going to write them a nice letter..
1) This is a sheep in wolfsclothes - if the poor can't buy a computer, they can't buy add-on software for Windows - they'll have to cope with StarOffice or Gimp then anyway.
2) Who is going to pay the connection to the Internet? If they think to broaden the access to e-commerce, well, if you're poor you aren't going to spend a cent on e-commerce anyway.
3) Who is actually interested? The people that really deserve a machine because they haven't got one, will have a lot of work trying to learn handling a computer.
4) The government is NOT helping equality - competitors to the x86 platform such as Sun, competitors to Microsoft such as Linux are ruled out by the government. I see some lawsuits ahead..
There are a lot of good reasons why 'a free computer for everyone!' is not a good idea this way.
No, karma hasn't got to do with it - my karma is 37 now. Read the faq. The "omelette" part sounds the least convincing to me - if it's interesting nerd news, why not post it *now*? Do the math: it wouldn't generate more stories, but posting news sooner would shorten the submission queue. Plus it's less a disgrace to us users.</sulk>
Wow, searching on whistling would even be more unbelievable! One would fear lots of duplicates, problems with unpure/shifted whistling - it really sounds like vaporware and the site is down as well :) But it would really help to find out whether Michael Jackson really ripped that number one hit.. ;)
Offtopic: * 2001-11-30 12:33:57 Mobile Phone System Identifies Music (science,news) (rejected) -- This was originally a New Scientist article indeed. All my submitted stories so far have been rejected, only to be accepted weeks later in a worse write-up by someone else. I will submit no more stories - it seems a huge waste of effort to me. No thanks.
Where lies in your opinion the boundary between anti-competitive functionality and "improving the users' experience"? .NET Common Language Runtime? Passport? etcetera..
By now, everybody is used to bundling a browser with the OS. But what about video-editing software? The (Sun) Java VM or the
Hm, now I told a big story and I didn't answer your question.. :)
:)
In Fidonet, there weren't such things as 'archiving all discussions'. In 1990 that would cost way too much hard disk space. I really wonder how Google did this: some mad freak must still have archived a lot. Is there a submit page somewhere on Google? Maybe someone else has relevant archives of FidoNet echos.. strange idea that you might even get money for keeping those backups around..
The only chance that those messages are saved is that someone - a point, BBS, hub, whatever - made copies of these public posts and wants to submit them to Google. If that 'academic network' of yours wasn't part of FidoNet, that chance is even smaller.
There! I was wondering for the same. I'm only 21, but seven years ago that's where I was - the local Dutch echos of FidoNet, and Fido-alike networks. First, I was a 'point' (iirc, for example the 1 in 2:212/3.1 ) and I used the DOS-program BlueWave to receive the newest echo packets, creating my own messages and sending them to the world via my phone line. A friend of mine had a BBS (he would have been 2:212/3) where I called in. He had "Remote Access" running (he always called it RA), with a cracked copy of FastEcho 1.30 ordering the mail for every point. The BBS synchronized itself with the rest of the network by calling to a hub every night, etc. As I became tired of BlueWave, I installed FastEcho (the mailsorter), GoldEd (a mailer, TimEd was also nice) and Terminate 3.0 (the calling program, something shareware like Telix.. The only thing I remember about it was that it was coded by a Dane and it had copyright notices *everywhere*. Of course I ran the cracked version.) Ahhh, history..
Now I read e-mail instead of 'netmail'. I'm using Pine instead of GoldEd. I tend to think that GoldEd was better than pine. I want [->] as "Next Message" again in 'full message view' format. No, that's not the same as pine's arrow-mode.. tin, pan, whatever.. golded is the way I'd want to read newsgroups. Maybe I should check out goldedplus. It's even a Debian package. But it looks not too easy to set up.
Let's not decide on what 'most users' want, but the flat fee model simply doesn't exist for phone services in The Netherlands. The USA has had that for decades! For mobile phones, the same: I know a lot of students who would like to pay $20 each month, for sending/receiving an unlimited number of 160 bytes bandwidth, also called an 'sms message' (atm, sending one of those costs you about $0,20 here..)