I will give Lucas credit for the 2nd trilogy on those grounds. It was original and had vision. It just happened to be poorly executed at the same time.
I'm no Lucas apologist, but I think that if he hadn't sold to Disney and worked with Kasdan on the script AND let someone else direct, it would have turned out better. But then again, I feel that Abrams "seduced the pooch" with Star Trek also. The prequels were a problem because Lucas had too much direct control. The problem with TFA is it has NO lucas control. There needs to be balance. It is his universe were talking about...
Regarding financials, I'm sure Disney will recoup their cost to purchase SW rather quickly.
SW tampons, SW propane tanks, SW shoe inserts and SW spark plugs will make sure of that.
At my workplace the division between what has been ascribed as "the haters" and those who like/love the new film could not be starker. There are those that actually understand why the film is a failure, and those that can somehow "use the force" to enhance their suspension of disbelief. (Dis)belief that it is a good film... Astonishing. How someone can think this film is any good is really beyond belief.
You have made the critical point as to why the film is a failure.
The film uses too many plot points, motivations, scenes, etc from Ep IV.
What were the writers thinking?
I really can't get over how bad they dropped the ball.
When given the opportunity to write a Star Wars film, with the full weight and credit of Disney behind you, you come up with this?
Unbelievable.
And the most unbelievable thing about all of it is that Lucas sold his baby, his critical achievement, to the likes of Disney, to be dragged through the mire like this.
Truly, for as bad as the prequels were, TFA is like walking past a garbage can at Disneyland filled with dirty diapers on a 98 degree day.
I have the nagging feeling that a large group of marketeers was set to work and they scrambled "action points" - stuff that needs to be in to please this group or the other. At the end all the points were ushered in the script and the plot was twisted to accommodate them regardless of what it did to consistency with the SW universe rules
Good Lord Sir, you have said it better than anyone!
That is exactly what has happened here.
Perhaps at one time there was a decent script, then some dipshits got involved and twisted it into the nonsense it is in the theatres now.
I've been told for pointing that out, that apparently I need a movie to spell things out for me. Those fanboys can bite me. If the writers can't be bothered to fill in enough details to make it unambiguous, that's not my problem.
And there you have it. One of the key problems with the film, there is no backstory or any inclination as to why Fin or Rey have been thrust into the Jedi roles they take in the film.
Of course we will be informed, in the second film, what their stories were, but to leave that sort of important details out in this first film is a real problem.
The fact even Finn could defeat a dark Lord of the sith shows how much of a joke it is.
Bingo.
But rest assured, in the next film were going to get all the backstory on both Fin and Rey, about how they sort of "sprouted, wholly formed as Jedi badasses" out of nothing. I can hear the Abrams apologists now enthusing about "JJs brilliance" that by giving us nothing about Fin and Rey(or Kylo Ren) in the first film, and then to fully flesh them out with history, etc in the second film... When in reality that sort of fleshing out and back story should have happened in TFA, not the next film.
I'll probably see it in theaters this week, but that's only because when I return from vacation I'm sure I'll have to deal with an endless torrent of co-workers who are Big Bang Theory fans and I'm planning being as snotty as possible about how much the movie fucking sucks.
The interesting thing is that of my co-workers, I've encountered Millennials who both loved it and hated it.
I was actually quite surprised that someone in their twenties would come to the same conclusions about the film that I did, that it is overtly derivative, and with no back story about the new characters. This has given me a new hope.
but you do realize that the person you're insulting doesn't do the job you're insulting him based on?
I think the Zero Originality and Shit All Over Everything modes alluded to are more an indictment of the story, the script, than distribution.
Perhaps, to clear up any confusion about who is responsible for either option, we should look up who wrote "The Force Awakens":
drumroll...
1. Lawrence Kasdan
2. J. J. Abrams
3. Michael Arndt
Those three are the culprits, and who should be held responsible for the two options mentioned above(Zero Originality and Shit All Over Everything).
Aren't *all* his films basically remakes of other, sometimes better, films redone for people with 10s attention spans and little aptitude for plot detail?
If you can get past the fact that the scriptwriters gave you a rehashed-regurgitated version of Ep IV, then I guess if was a good star wars film.
IMHO it wasn't that much better than Ep 1, which is sad because the acting and dialogue, generally, was very good.
It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. C+ is the best I think its worth. It sort of reminded me of a tv episode... I was underwhelmed really. I wouldn't go see it again.
On the good side the casting and acting were exceptional, except for Kylo Ren(Adam Driver), but you already knew that. The space-chases, gun fights, light-sabre fights, etc were good.
The bad side? The Story. But that is what we've come to expect from Abrams. The not-so-subtle "were too lazy to come up with our own ideas so lets re-use plot points from the first film(Ep IV)". I think you know what I'm talking about. That was really sad, and yes, lazy. These guys were given the keys to the kingdom, and what is the best they could come up with?
Slashdot Mirror
I will give Lucas credit for the 2nd trilogy on those grounds. It was original and had vision. It just happened to be poorly executed at the same time.
And there you have it.
So you're the guy who gets to tell everyone what is good and what isn't?
See sig:
Otherwise Titanic and Avatar should be right up there with The Godfather.
I couldn't have said it better.
I'm no Lucas apologist, but I think that if he hadn't sold to Disney and worked with Kasdan on the script AND let someone else direct, it would have turned out better. But then again, I feel that Abrams "seduced the pooch" with Star Trek also. The prequels were a problem because Lucas had too much direct control. The problem with TFA is it has NO lucas control. There needs to be balance. It is his universe were talking about...
Regarding financials, I'm sure Disney will recoup their cost to purchase SW rather quickly.
SW tampons, SW propane tanks, SW shoe inserts and SW spark plugs will make sure of that.
But all I heard was that the new editors get raked over the coals, and that it isn't worth the time.
Last time someone did that we ended up with Episode 1.
Right, because original ideas are something we don't want. Stick with whats safe, proven and orthodox. Color inside the lines please.
You sound like the fanboys in '99 apologizing for TPM...
At my workplace the division between what has been ascribed as "the haters" and those who like/love the new film could not be starker. There are those that actually understand why the film is a failure, and those that can somehow "use the force" to enhance their suspension of disbelief. (Dis)belief that it is a good film... Astonishing. How someone can think this film is any good is really beyond belief.
You have made the critical point as to why the film is a failure.
The film uses too many plot points, motivations, scenes, etc from Ep IV.
What were the writers thinking?
I really can't get over how bad they dropped the ball.
When given the opportunity to write a Star Wars film, with the full weight and credit of Disney behind you, you come up with this?
Unbelievable.
And the most unbelievable thing about all of it is that Lucas sold his baby, his critical achievement, to the likes of Disney, to be dragged through the mire like this.
Truly, for as bad as the prequels were, TFA is like walking past a garbage can at Disneyland filled with dirty diapers on a 98 degree day.
I have the nagging feeling that a large group of marketeers was set to work and they scrambled "action points" - stuff that needs to be in to please this group or the other. At the end all the points were ushered in the script and the plot was twisted to accommodate them regardless of what it did to consistency with the SW universe rules
Good Lord Sir, you have said it better than anyone!
That is exactly what has happened here.
Perhaps at one time there was a decent script, then some dipshits got involved and twisted it into the nonsense it is in the theatres now.
Have you ever seen the first Star Wars film, Episode IV, "A New Hope"?
It doesn't sound like you have.
Interesting how his post is modded +5 Insightful.
Why do you think that is?
I've been told for pointing that out, that apparently I need a movie to spell things out for me. Those fanboys can bite me. If the writers can't be bothered to fill in enough details to make it unambiguous, that's not my problem.
And there you have it. One of the key problems with the film, there is no backstory or any inclination as to why Fin or Rey have been thrust into the Jedi roles they take in the film.
Of course we will be informed, in the second film, what their stories were, but to leave that sort of important details out in this first film is a real problem.
The fact even Finn could defeat a dark Lord of the sith shows how much of a joke it is.
Bingo.
But rest assured, in the next film were going to get all the backstory on both Fin and Rey, about how they sort of "sprouted, wholly formed as Jedi badasses" out of nothing. I can hear the Abrams apologists now enthusing about "JJs brilliance" that by giving us nothing about Fin and Rey(or Kylo Ren) in the first film, and then to fully flesh them out with history, etc in the second film... When in reality that sort of fleshing out and back story should have happened in TFA, not the next film.
I'll probably see it in theaters this week, but that's only because when I return from vacation I'm sure I'll have to deal with an endless torrent of co-workers who are Big Bang Theory fans and I'm planning being as snotty as possible about how much the movie fucking sucks.
May The Force Be With You...
Always.
The interesting thing is that of my co-workers, I've encountered Millennials who both loved it and hated it.
I was actually quite surprised that someone in their twenties would come to the same conclusions about the film that I did, that it is overtly derivative, and with no back story about the new characters. This has given me a new hope.
but you do realize that the person you're insulting doesn't do the job you're insulting him based on?
I think the Zero Originality and Shit All Over Everything modes alluded to are more an indictment of the story, the script, than distribution.
Perhaps, to clear up any confusion about who is responsible for either option, we should look up who wrote "The Force Awakens":
drumroll...
1. Lawrence Kasdan
2. J. J. Abrams
3. Michael Arndt
Those three are the culprits, and who should be held responsible for the two options mentioned above(Zero Originality and Shit All Over Everything).
Aren't *all* his films basically remakes of other, sometimes better, films redone for people with 10s attention spans and little aptitude for plot detail?
Yes
If you can get past the fact that the scriptwriters gave you a rehashed-regurgitated version of Ep IV, then I guess if was a good star wars film.
IMHO it wasn't that much better than Ep 1, which is sad because the acting and dialogue, generally, was very good.
It was the story that really failed.
I concur completely.
My feeling at the end of the film was one of underwhelmed resignation...
Every point of criticism you have spelled out was exactly what I was thinking during the film.
It wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. C+ is the best I think its worth. It sort of reminded me of a tv episode... I was underwhelmed really. I wouldn't go see it again.
On the good side the casting and acting were exceptional, except for Kylo Ren(Adam Driver), but you already knew that. The space-chases, gun fights, light-sabre fights, etc were good.
The bad side? The Story. But that is what we've come to expect from Abrams. The not-so-subtle "were too lazy to come up with our own ideas so lets re-use plot points from the first film(Ep IV)". I think you know what I'm talking about. That was really sad, and yes, lazy. These guys were given the keys to the kingdom, and what is the best they could come up with?
He is a psychologist...
ISIS could be in your power lines radicalizing your toaster right now and you'd never even know it until your toast started catching fire!
Too late. My Toaster has already had the microaggression update installed.
Were you even around in the 80's?
Who modded this up?
John Carter was actually about as good a film as The Force Awakens.
the term princess is a microagression of the manocentric maleocracy as a feminine "derivative" of a male title
You have won the internets.