and that's why I made the comments about the games. Prime95 is not the only stability test I ran, lol, duh.
All my applications work fine; I've been running this rig for about 8 months now. I don't know why you're so hell-bent on telling me my chip is broken, people get pissed when someone gets something for free it seems...we should tax me since I didn't pay for it.
use speedfan. I don't remember which temp it is, but it still has one. I've since renamed it "CPU". You don't get individual core monitoring, but you do get the temp of the whole CPU.
You're showing a complete lack of understanding as to how processors are rated and sold. AMD determines they need to meet a certain quota for each model of CPU. If it works out and all of the CPUs in their 1 million unit run works flawlessly, they will maximize their profit by disabling some of them and selling them for less money to account for that market without flooding the market with their top performing part.
True, but there's also a good possibility that the your part wasn't binned to fulfill an order. Chips go through a severe set of stress tests that often exceed what will be encountered in practical use. During these tests, it may be revealed that a core doesn't function properly or well enough (it gives bad results) to qualify. All chips go through that, and that's why there's many redundant structures on a chip (to improve yields). (Sony PS3 has 7 SPUs when they build 8 on a chip, Xbox360's got 3 PowerPC cores even though it has 4, Intel disables cache lines and/or functional units, etc. etc. etc.)
So the question is, are those cores disabled because AMD had extra parts and an outstanding order they could fulfill? Or are there actually potential issues that may only be revealed under certain loads? FOr the most part, it just means a game crashes a bit more often than usual (since mission critical servers never do wierd things like this - the money saved isn't worth the potential for extra downtime), or maybe a file gets corrupted. Or worse, your disk gets corrupted.
Plus, AMD's historically been supply-bound and unable to fulfill demand for their product, so there's a potential that instead of getting a binned part, it's actually one that failed their test patterns.
And yes, you see the same behavior with flash chips - NAND flash traditionally ships with bad blocks, and the majority of those can probably be erased and used quite safely (having accidentally destroyed the bad block information before due to buggy software...), but you never can tell why it was marked bad in the first place.
I bought a Ph2 720BE and unlocked it to a quad. Stress tested with 12 hours of Prime95, no failures. When the core is bad, you usually can't even boot into Windows; never have I heard of one that could withstand gaming for more than 5 seconds. If something in it is broken, you know it.
So I paid $120 back when the Ph2 965 cost $240, and unlocked and overclocked the 720BE I bought to a quad at 3.5ghz. 4 cores for the price of 3. Love it.
also, the school I'm graduating from _is_ in the Harvard/MIT/etc. club for pretty much all the engineering majors we offer. I'm just saying there's a ton of inefficiency. The MicroEcon class is not hard-- test question I had-- "what does the shaded box represent?" The shaded box was at the quantity of production where profit is maximized (they told you that), and it extended from the demand curve down to the average total cost curve-- basically just two lines on a graph. In other words, Quantity * ([price people are paying for 1 unit] - [cost of production of 1 unit]) is what? It's profit, duh, you didn't have to sit through this class to figure that out. None of the questions were more difficult than this.
Much of this material can be condensed into two weeks. They could do both Micro and Macro in 1 half semester no problem.
Now, the circuits classes are the classes where I'm always behind. I usually can't keep up in class and that's because the best I can hope for is to try to write everything down in the intervals where the teacher isn't walking or standing in front of what he just wrote, and then go home and stare at it until it makes sense. This stuff I do very badly, it is very challenging, but the point I'm trying to make is none of it is necessary for the job I've got lined up.
I'm actually quite slow I think, compared with most of the people at my school. I've always been behind. I've also noticed that my brain has improved dramatically while I've been here. Exercise your brain and it adapts-- very, very, very well.
I used to cheat in college, and all my friends do. I don't cheat anymore. My secret? I switched to a major I like. For the most part, I enjoy and look forward to assignments, and haven't cheated on any since changing majors. For me the subject is CS, but I'm sure that most people could find something they like well enough to look forward to assignments.
this doesn't really work, I fear failure. Assignments give me fear of failure. What if I don't make the grade? What if I can't figure it out? When I'm sitting there trying to figure it out, all I can help but think is "man I'm so stupid, this is so hard, I've been staring at this for 2 hours and I still can't figure it out, I'm such a retard, if I can't figure this out it means I'm retarded..."
In contrast, when I'm on the job it's "here do this" and my choice is 1). Twiddle thumbs, or 2). Entertain myself by trying to learn something new.
There are people I can ask for help, and there really aren't huge deadlines where you have a choice of working or putting it off, you just have to work on it.
Leaving aside the usual nonsense that kids today are worthless and can't do anything right, the problem is more complicated than that. Many universities have stepped away from the idea of going to college as a way to get a well-rounded education and have positioned themselves as places to get a piece of paper that will let you get a good job. Combine this with the increasing number of positions requiring a college degree, and you get a lot more people more interested in just getting through and getting that piece of paper as quickly as possible than they are with actually learning anything.
College is quickly becoming like high school: It's a base requirement that everyone has to go through if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives picking lettuce, so people are going to go and try and get through it as quickly and painlessly as possible. There have always been people who do this of course, and cheating is certainly not a new problem, but the above-mentioned issues may make it more prevalent than it once was.
Remember, though, that our generation cheated as well. Every college in the country has an honor code, and many of them have been in place for decades (or longer). These codes wouldn't exist if no one was cheating before.
Undergrad diploma is the new HS diploma because companies can't depend on people having a HS diploma to mean that they are capable of critical thinking. That's what happens when you give them out willy-nilly (big thanks to the folks that implemented no-child-left-behind, and the liberals that won't let us fail students; but both of these are passing the buck-- the real problem is the parents not engaging in their childrens' lives.)
So now an M.S. is the new B.S., but this whole education thing is approaching unsustainability due to the exorbitant cost, both fiscally time required. Quick example, my MicroEcon test that I aced today had 20 questions, took me 20 minutes, and if they gave me all the slides up front I could have learned the entire course in 2 days or less of studying. But this amount of work was spread out over an entire semester. Is that economically feasible? No, we do it for the paper that gets us a well-paying job. With the cost of post-secondary education running away from us, the supply of students getting degrees from legit schools (aka not DeVry, ITT Tech, or your local community college that passes everyone for the same reason the high school does-- because they need the money) will dwindle. Eventually the cost of employing those with legit degrees will be so high that it will be economically feasible to consider employing someone straight out of highschool and just train them yourself. The two requirements for this to work are 1). student is smart enough to teach self things if you gave him a book and the internet 2). student is either a). self-disciplined, or b). can be managed to do work.
You can devise a test for 1), and if you just hire people you know and trust (and have people you know and trust who can refer you to people that they know and trust) then 2) is solved as well.
The point I'm making is I could have learned all my circuits stuff a lot faster with proper documentation and material written down than it took me in the classroom. Further, frankly I didn't need chemistry and Calculus I-III & DiffEq to help me design circuits or code. And I certainly didn't need a semester each to learn the applicable parts. A much more efficient solution (and it's much more motivating) is to worry about that stuff when you need it-- when you run into the term "eigenvectors and eigenvalues" while learning on the job about applying neural networks to power systems, you go teach yourself the linear algebra. It's much more motivating when you're stuck at the job for 8 hours, can't surf the web all day, and the most entertaining thing you can do (and it's actually quite entertaining) is learning things. Even better, it's always need-based, never an arbitrary "you have to learn this so that y
have you ever flown over a landfill? We've had one for about 25 years next to a top-5 city, all our waste goes there. It takes up about 1/1000th of the viewable area from the plane at that moment. It was gone from sight in a few minutes.
Landfills do not concern me. Mercury in the air and radioactive chemicals in the air from coal do. There are hills, and then there are mountains we need to climb. In this case, it's a hill of garbage that just doesn't matter.
it's more just the interests. People that check/. all the time aren't interested in socializing that much. All I'm saying is that most people end up growing up. Not that there's anything wrong with/., just that your interests change and you desire to spend Friday nights hanging out with people rather than checking/. for the newest story.
Great! Government doing its job-- doing the job that the free-market can't provide for itself.
Now please work on getting the government back into its box of things the market can't provide for itself-- self defense, roads, and that's pretty much it.
Uhm, wait a second, this is Slashdot, we aren't supposed to talk about how we meet lovely women and sleep with them. We're supposed to all be bitter about having never gotten laid. Way to end the stereotypes!
Really guys, you don't need to worry about it. Notice how many user IDs there are for/.? Any guess as to how many of them frequent this site any more? Statistically they've all moved on with life and found women. I'm getting there myself, find myself visiting less. Find myself more interested in people than the internet,/., etc anymore. Enjoy/. while it intrigues you, and move on when it doesn't, like everybody else.
Also, the drive itself is about twice the price of the cheapest 500 GB drive you can find on Pricewatch. So even as a 500 GB drive (if you're not interested in paying to watch the movies) it's a rip-off.
no u misunderstand, the film was ripped off the dvd ONTO the hard drive.
The authors also took the time to remind their readers that the supertasking population really is small, so you shouldn't assume you're one of them. Unfortunately, it looks like most people tend to believe they're the exception to this rule, as the authors note, "our studies over the last decade have found that a great many people have the belief that the laws of attention do not apply to them (e.g., they have seen other drivers who are impaired while multi-tasking, but they are the exception to the rule). In fact, some readers may also be wondering if they too are supertaskers; however, we suggest that the odds of this are against them."
I went to a hockey game last night and at the beginning we sang something that ended with "Land of the free, home of the brave". It didn't end with "home of the pansies afraid of dying because 1 in 1000 people can't drive an automatic and have a conversation with their passenger"
AKA standardized tests? With scores not based on the median performance, but on an objective standard of "did they learn the material?" This whole thing is a really good idea. I would be so much more motivated to study if it meant I had extra spending money.
what if it's the fault of the people? If the people are doing something wrong, no amount of government intervention can fix it if they just don't care about it.
I firmly believe effort is a flawed metric because the human brain adapts remarkably well. I remember how out of the box some of my freshman level classes were. Now they're easy cake. I skated along with B's and C's the whole time and they've still turned into cake-- with or without my effort.
Reward results. You reward results and people will be more motivated to try harder. That motivation adds up and the brain adapts, and they get that reward eventually. Alternatively we try to reward people who look like they're trying hard. It's hard to tell if someone is trying hard, don't grownups work 40 hours a week to disguise that they're only working 15?
Do adults do their jobs because "they are supposed to" or "out of the kindness of their own hearts."
I do my job because I love it.
I've been offered more money (sometimes *much* more) to do something else. Each time, I turned it down.
and expect them to do it for free.
Why not give them something they enjoy to do? Or at least compensation for it? I learned so much in my 6th grade math that the only thing I learned about in 8th grade math was matrix multiplication. I didn't learn anything in 7th grade math. So I got in trouble all the time for talking to friends, goofing off, whatever. And they wondered why I was so misbehaved. Disciplined me hard and I got scared of talking at all. Now I just talk to myself and am afraid of talking out in groups.
Adults have all kinds of motivation to work. Being hungry, cold, rained on -- these are pretty strong motivators (not for all people, but for most, they're powerful).
Kids generally have food and a place to live without worrying about it -- they expect it. Kids also generally have a pretty short term outlook. Remember when you felt like summer vacation would last forever or the school year would never end? At 14, it's hard to think realistically about what one's life will be like at 35. So you give short term motivators to kids, they do well, and life at 35 is all that much easier because somewhere along the way, they picked up long-term thinking skills without being hampered by blowing off homework and playing video games.
However, as an intentionally child-free taxpayer, I really do hate paying for other people's sprogs.
Slashdot Mirror
and that's why I made the comments about the games. Prime95 is not the only stability test I ran, lol, duh.
All my applications work fine; I've been running this rig for about 8 months now.
I don't know why you're so hell-bent on telling me my chip is broken, people get pissed when someone gets something for free it seems...we should tax me since I didn't pay for it.
use speedfan. I don't remember which temp it is, but it still has one. I've since renamed it "CPU". You don't get individual core monitoring, but you do get the temp of the whole CPU.
lol
True, but there's also a good possibility that the your part wasn't binned to fulfill an order. Chips go through a severe set of stress tests that often exceed what will be encountered in practical use. During these tests, it may be revealed that a core doesn't function properly or well enough (it gives bad results) to qualify. All chips go through that, and that's why there's many redundant structures on a chip (to improve yields). (Sony PS3 has 7 SPUs when they build 8 on a chip, Xbox360's got 3 PowerPC cores even though it has 4, Intel disables cache lines and/or functional units, etc. etc. etc.)
So the question is, are those cores disabled because AMD had extra parts and an outstanding order they could fulfill? Or are there actually potential issues that may only be revealed under certain loads? FOr the most part, it just means a game crashes a bit more often than usual (since mission critical servers never do wierd things like this - the money saved isn't worth the potential for extra downtime), or maybe a file gets corrupted. Or worse, your disk gets corrupted.
Plus, AMD's historically been supply-bound and unable to fulfill demand for their product, so there's a potential that instead of getting a binned part, it's actually one that failed their test patterns.
And yes, you see the same behavior with flash chips - NAND flash traditionally ships with bad blocks, and the majority of those can probably be erased and used quite safely (having accidentally destroyed the bad block information before due to buggy software...), but you never can tell why it was marked bad in the first place.
I bought a Ph2 720BE and unlocked it to a quad. Stress tested with 12 hours of Prime95, no failures. When the core is bad, you usually can't even boot into Windows; never have I heard of one that could withstand gaming for more than 5 seconds. If something in it is broken, you know it.
So I paid $120 back when the Ph2 965 cost $240, and unlocked and overclocked the 720BE I bought to a quad at 3.5ghz. 4 cores for the price of 3. Love it.
also, the school I'm graduating from _is_ in the Harvard/MIT/etc. club for pretty much all the engineering majors we offer. I'm just saying there's a ton of inefficiency. The MicroEcon class is not hard-- test question I had-- "what does the shaded box represent?" The shaded box was at the quantity of production where profit is maximized (they told you that), and it extended from the demand curve down to the average total cost curve-- basically just two lines on a graph. In other words, Quantity * ([price people are paying for 1 unit] - [cost of production of 1 unit]) is what? It's profit, duh, you didn't have to sit through this class to figure that out. None of the questions were more difficult than this.
Much of this material can be condensed into two weeks. They could do both Micro and Macro in 1 half semester no problem.
Now, the circuits classes are the classes where I'm always behind. I usually can't keep up in class and that's because the best I can hope for is to try to write everything down in the intervals where the teacher isn't walking or standing in front of what he just wrote, and then go home and stare at it until it makes sense. This stuff I do very badly, it is very challenging, but the point I'm trying to make is none of it is necessary for the job I've got lined up.
I'm actually quite slow I think, compared with most of the people at my school. I've always been behind.
I've also noticed that my brain has improved dramatically while I've been here. Exercise your brain and it adapts-- very, very, very well.
I used to cheat in college, and all my friends do. I don't cheat anymore. My secret? I switched to a major I like. For the most part, I enjoy and look forward to assignments, and haven't cheated on any since changing majors. For me the subject is CS, but I'm sure that most people could find something they like well enough to look forward to assignments.
this doesn't really work, I fear failure. Assignments give me fear of failure. What if I don't make the grade? What if I can't figure it out?
When I'm sitting there trying to figure it out, all I can help but think is "man I'm so stupid, this is so hard, I've been staring at this for 2 hours and I still can't figure it out, I'm such a retard, if I can't figure this out it means I'm retarded..."
In contrast, when I'm on the job it's "here do this" and my choice is
1). Twiddle thumbs, or
2). Entertain myself by trying to learn something new.
There are people I can ask for help, and there really aren't huge deadlines where you have a choice of working or putting it off, you just have to work on it.
Leaving aside the usual nonsense that kids today are worthless and can't do anything right, the problem is more complicated than that. Many universities have stepped away from the idea of going to college as a way to get a well-rounded education and have positioned themselves as places to get a piece of paper that will let you get a good job. Combine this with the increasing number of positions requiring a college degree, and you get a lot more people more interested in just getting through and getting that piece of paper as quickly as possible than they are with actually learning anything.
College is quickly becoming like high school: It's a base requirement that everyone has to go through if they don't want to spend the rest of their lives picking lettuce, so people are going to go and try and get through it as quickly and painlessly as possible. There have always been people who do this of course, and cheating is certainly not a new problem, but the above-mentioned issues may make it more prevalent than it once was.
Remember, though, that our generation cheated as well. Every college in the country has an honor code, and many of them have been in place for decades (or longer). These codes wouldn't exist if no one was cheating before.
Undergrad diploma is the new HS diploma because companies can't depend on people having a HS diploma to mean that they are capable of critical thinking.
That's what happens when you give them out willy-nilly (big thanks to the folks that implemented no-child-left-behind, and the liberals that won't let us fail students; but both of these are passing the buck-- the real problem is the parents not engaging in their childrens' lives.)
So now an M.S. is the new B.S., but this whole education thing is approaching unsustainability due to the exorbitant cost, both fiscally time required. Quick example, my MicroEcon test that I aced today had 20 questions, took me 20 minutes, and if they gave me all the slides up front I could have learned the entire course in 2 days or less of studying. But this amount of work was spread out over an entire semester. Is that economically feasible? No, we do it for the paper that gets us a well-paying job. With the cost of post-secondary education running away from us, the supply of students getting degrees from legit schools (aka not DeVry, ITT Tech, or your local community college that passes everyone for the same reason the high school does-- because they need the money) will dwindle. Eventually the cost of employing those with legit degrees will be so high that it will be economically feasible to consider employing someone straight out of highschool and just train them yourself. The two requirements for this to work are
1). student is smart enough to teach self things if you gave him a book and the internet
2). student is either a). self-disciplined, or b). can be managed to do work.
You can devise a test for 1), and if you just hire people you know and trust (and have people you know and trust who can refer you to people that they know and trust) then 2) is solved as well.
The point I'm making is I could have learned all my circuits stuff a lot faster with proper documentation and material written down than it took me in the classroom. Further, frankly I didn't need chemistry and Calculus I-III & DiffEq to help me design circuits or code. And I certainly didn't need a semester each to learn the applicable parts. A much more efficient solution (and it's much more motivating) is to worry about that stuff when you need it-- when you run into the term "eigenvectors and eigenvalues" while learning on the job about applying neural networks to power systems, you go teach yourself the linear algebra. It's much more motivating when you're stuck at the job for 8 hours, can't surf the web all day, and the most entertaining thing you can do (and it's actually quite entertaining) is learning things. Even better, it's always need-based, never an arbitrary "you have to learn this so that y
food subsidies are a national defense thing. I'm against them in general though (due to what they've done to the politics regarding ethanol).
have you ever flown over a landfill?
We've had one for about 25 years next to a top-5 city, all our waste goes there.
It takes up about 1/1000th of the viewable area from the plane at that moment. It was gone from sight in a few minutes.
Landfills do not concern me. Mercury in the air and radioactive chemicals in the air from coal do. There are hills, and then there are mountains we need to climb. In this case, it's a hill of garbage that just doesn't matter.
lol
it's more just the interests. People that check /. all the time aren't interested in socializing that much. All I'm saying is that most people end up growing up. Not that there's anything wrong with /., just that your interests change and you desire to spend Friday nights hanging out with people rather than checking /. for the newest story.
Great! Government doing its job-- doing the job that the free-market can't provide for itself.
Now please work on getting the government back into its box of things the market can't provide for itself-- self defense, roads, and that's pretty much it.
Uhm, wait a second, this is Slashdot, we aren't supposed to talk about how we meet lovely women and sleep with them. We're supposed to all be bitter about having never gotten laid. Way to end the stereotypes!
Really guys, you don't need to worry about it. Notice how many user IDs there are for /.? Any guess as to how many of them frequent this site any more? Statistically they've all moved on with life and found women. /., etc anymore. Enjoy /. while it intrigues you, and move on when it doesn't, like everybody else.
I'm getting there myself, find myself visiting less. Find myself more interested in people than the internet,
Also, the drive itself is about twice the price of the cheapest 500 GB drive you can find on Pricewatch. So even as a 500 GB drive (if you're not interested in paying to watch the movies) it's a rip-off.
no u misunderstand, the film was ripped off the dvd ONTO the hard drive.
however, it does seem unfair to punish those who can drive while talking without a loss in attention or skill.
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/03/rare-supertaskers-balance-driving-and-cellphone-use.ars
I went to a hockey game last night and at the beginning we sang something that ended with "Land of the free, home of the brave". It didn't end with "home of the pansies afraid of dying because 1 in 1000 people can't drive an automatic and have a conversation with their passenger"
that is an interesting point.
checks and balances.
AKA standardized tests? With scores not based on the median performance, but on an objective standard of "did they learn the material?"
This whole thing is a really good idea. I would be so much more motivated to study if it meant I had extra spending money.
what if we removed all -1 moderation options and only had +1's?
I'd tolerate the spam (or just browse at 2) to avoid the mod abuse.
what if it's the fault of the people? If the people are doing something wrong, no amount of government intervention can fix it if they just don't care about it.
x:curiosity
ask too many questions and you get in trouble for derailing the "learning experience" of other students.
Needless to say, I'm graduating form a top 5 engineering school, they're not. Take that, Mr. Principle I visited every month.
No such thing as intrinsic motivator, duh, welcome to thermodynamics. We default to laziness.
I firmly believe effort is a flawed metric because the human brain adapts remarkably well. I remember how out of the box some of my freshman level classes were. Now they're easy cake. I skated along with B's and C's the whole time and they've still turned into cake-- with or without my effort.
Reward results. You reward results and people will be more motivated to try harder. That motivation adds up and the brain adapts, and they get that reward eventually.
Alternatively we try to reward people who look like they're trying hard. It's hard to tell if someone is trying hard, don't grownups work 40 hours a week to disguise that they're only working 15?
Do adults do their jobs because "they are supposed to" or "out of the kindness of their own hearts."
I do my job because I love it.
I've been offered more money (sometimes *much* more) to do something else. Each time, I turned it down.
and expect them to do it for free.
Why not give them something they enjoy to do? Or at least compensation for it? I learned so much in my 6th grade math that the only thing I learned about in 8th grade math was matrix multiplication. I didn't learn anything in 7th grade math.
So I got in trouble all the time for talking to friends, goofing off, whatever. And they wondered why I was so misbehaved. Disciplined me hard and I got scared of talking at all. Now I just talk to myself and am afraid of talking out in groups.
Adults have all kinds of motivation to work. Being hungry, cold, rained on -- these are pretty strong motivators (not for all people, but for most, they're powerful).
Kids generally have food and a place to live without worrying about it -- they expect it. Kids also generally have a pretty short term outlook. Remember when you felt like summer vacation would last forever or the school year would never end? At 14, it's hard to think realistically about what one's life will be like at 35. So you give short term motivators to kids, they do well, and life at 35 is all that much easier because somewhere along the way, they picked up long-term thinking skills without being hampered by blowing off homework and playing video games.
However, as an intentionally child-free taxpayer, I really do hate paying for other people's sprogs.
Money is an amazing short term motivator.