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Cows On Treadmills Produce Clean Power For Farms
separsons writes "William Taylor, a farmer in Northern Ireland, recently developed the Livestock Power Mill, a treadmill for cows. Taylor uses the device to generate clean, renewable power for his farm. Cows are locked into a pen on top of a non-powered, inclined belt. The cows' walking turns the belt, which spins a gearbox to drive a generator. One cow can produce about two kilowatts of electricity, enough energy to power four milking machines. It may seem like a kooky idea, but Taylor could be onto something: According to his calculations, if the world's 1.3 billion cattle used treadmills for eight hours a day, they could provide six percent of the world's power!"
Do they need to eat more?
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I'm not sure I want my cows exercising. Their muscles will get tough and stringy.
It may be a bit more expensive and resource consuming, but fat, lazy cows are what I want.
Don't the cows have to... eat? How is this any more efficient than burning corn directly?
I thought you weren't supposed to exercise the meat you eat, because un-exercised meat tasted better (see Kobe beef).
sharks with lasers.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
"No, sirloin power!"
And how long would it take a cow walking on a treadmill to produce an amount of energy equivalent to that used to produce the treadmill (including its raw materials) anyway?
But if he's got 1.3 billion cow treadmills handy, I'd happily take one if I had a cow.
This guy just took a stock heavy-duty treadmill, and painted over the "Jessica Simpson" with "Livestock."
Shouldnt we fix the abomination that livestock industry is, in that they make cows live in 1x2 m enclosed space from their birth to their death in the first place.
reminds of how big corporations treat people like livestock and make them toil for dimes in cramped spaces ... a society's mindset reflects on every aspect of life.
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Anyone who is perfectly capable of working, but who chooses not to and is on social assistance should do something similar. If they want their check, they need to run on a treadmill or peddle a bike or something until they've earned their money.
This would be a great benefit to most of the southern states in the USA. Large percentages of the population there are on social assistance (mostly provided by California and the northern states). At least now they'd be able to generate their own power, which will help cut down their own expenses, or they can sell that power to other states.
Not only that, but obesity is a huge problem in the states with the highest number of welfare recipients. Making them exercise even on just a bi-weekly basis would help trim them down to size. They'd be healthier, would consume less food, and might be in a better position to actually contribute to society for once.
A cable out to the milking shed though - it is at least convenient.
Nullius in verba
I would imagine that cows that get regular exercise like this probably have meat that is much leaner than regular feed fed cows.
Power to help the farm AND a healthier product for the population at large? Sounds like a double win.
that's enough to produce 11,755.1486 horsepower hours in a year!
Those are no cows... We've been using them for centuries.
There are two glaring faults with this setup:
#1) The cows are 'locked in'.
#2) The treadmill is inclined.
This results in the animal walking out of 'fear' from falling. The inability of the animal to stop whenever it wants is cruel treatment. On the other hand, if it were 'elective' and the cows got a special treat (a yummy grass/feed?) then it is a different story.
I would like to see how guy would like to be locked onto a treadmill 8hrs a day, walking uphill the entire time.
I doubt the quality of the milk would be very good. Stress does not make for a nice quality or quantity of milk. (I used to work on a dairy farm.)
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
And if all the birds in the world flew west at the same time, the planet would spin faster.
And if all the snakes in the world crawled east at the same time it would spin slower.
And if I wake up from this lousy dream one more time, I'm hunting doolittle down and feeding him to the fishes...
Funny and innovative as the idea is: I wonder how clean this energy really is. It doesn't come out of thin air, those cows have to eat. And a cow's digestive system tends to produce quite some methane (a major greenhouse gas), and quite some waste - which also releases lots of ammonia amongst other harmful chemicals. On top of that the fodder also has to be produced (often using power for machinery and so), and a cow that walks that much definitely eats a lot more than a cow that grazes the pasture or is kept in a stable without much room to move.
And besides I think there are much more cattle-friendly ways to exercise your cow.
Also, after thinking about it, I can't think that this is any worse than making them stand shoulder to shoulder, knee deep in their own shit in the high density feed lot while they're finished off with corn before processing. The cows might actually prefer this to the high density feed lot.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
Wake me up when they come with their own mounted systems for bovine freedom.
I think they might want to take this technology to Southeast Asia... elephants are not only much more massive but also seem much more active, and the elephant conservatories in Thailand are always looking for things to do to make money to afford to keep their brood occupied and healthy. /drove through Wisconsin last week, saw mounted cows.
How do the Hindus feel about their ancestors being forced into manual labor like this, when they could have used human beings instead? And how does the cost of buying and maintaining a cow treadmill compare to the cost of a solar power array that would generate 2 kilowatts without the constant trouble of cleaning all the cow shit off of it? Cows are one of the least efficient animals at turning grain into meat; I suspect they are also grossly inefficient at turning grain into power. If you take that same grain, ferment it, distill it, and use it to power an engine, how much more or less power output would you get?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I guess it's better than them being just locked up all the time maybe? At least they get some exercise. I agree with the elective thing though, and them generating energy is maybe better for the environment? It all does bear some investigation, but it seems like a decent idea.
The next logical step is to install these at MacDonalds.
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
It'll be even better when PETA finds out about this.
Put cow in tiny box which is sloped so they keep walking up hill, shove food in its face, hook the belt they are turning while walking up hill to a generator which in turn powers the milking machine that is hooked to the cow's udders.
They milk themselves, while being put on a forced march.
That should generate entertainment in the form of PETA ravings.
Meat is muscle tissue, the more they exercise, the harder the meat gets.
Worst idea ever.
You mean in addition to the fact that this would have to violate the laws of thermodynamics to be useful?
Just wait for PETA to hear about this and complain about animal cruelty.
The methane from the digestion that poroduce can start their crap on fire. All we need is a little midget to manage it all.... let's call him Master...
Let me guess, you are also one of those people who gives your dog purified water, human food, a spring mattress to sleep on, and keeps them inside all day so they are more comfortable. I am an animal lover, have a feisty fat tabby and a Yellow Lab. Both very happy and healthy, why? Because I treat them like the animals they are. My dog gets dog food, I leave her outside all day, she rolls in mud puddles, chews on dead things, and occationally steals a treat from the kitty litter box when we aren't looking..
My point? These are COWS I have worked with cattle, I grew up in a farming community and worked on farms for most of my childhood. Cows are happy pretty much anywhere they don't have to swat flies. Treating a cow like a human is sheer stupidity because it would make them miserable.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE2Wwy8bKo
In Lincoln's New Salem, near Springfield, Illinois, there is a reconstructed carding mill powered by a tilted tread wheel on which an ox walked to supply the power. This would have been in use around 1830.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
Cows are batteries, not this silly stuff: http://www.themeatrix.com/
Some people have joked about methane, but for those concerned about greenhouse gases, this would probably be worse than burning coal. Methane from livestock is a major source of greenhouse gases, to the point where one's personal impact on greenhouse gases is greater from giving up animal products than giving up one's car.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
...is why doesn't the `Y' hook it's treadmills up to generators? I have seen fat cows walking on them all day - the energy they produce is just lost as waste heat. It would be far better to redirect it into the grid.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Cowpower?
Any idea on the conversion formula to horsepower?
His cows can’t stand still on hillsides without fear of falling down? Shoulda bought some of those hill-cows...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Cows eat and drink a lot. It is ridiculously inefficient to use them as a source of energy. By the way not only for electrical energy. Also meat as a food is horribly inefficient use of resources.
As a side effect, you could get better tasting meat. Where does meat gets it taste from> From the blood and the more blood, the more taste. Moving will increase the blood flow and thus the taste. The downside is that meat won't be as tender anymore and in todays world tender is more important then taste.
What the effect is if these are milking cows (which I assume, as they are talking about milking machines), I have no idea. Will the production and/or quality be the same, higher or lower?
All in all a great idea. Not a solution by itself, but there is no reason why we would go with only one solution.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Have you ever seen a field or corn, wheat or strawberries? Those plants are packed in tight. This is completely opposite to how plants grow in the wild. It's so cruel that we force these plants to grow in tight, geometric formations, never able to get proper air circulation, we force grow them in pots which is never found in the wild and in densities never intended to by our mother, earth.
I would add details but I need to moooove
What about the methane they produce, which is more powerful than carbon dioxide as a global warming agent?
Wouldn't this mean that the cows would become a bit more health and in turn be more health for us to eat? Who really cares about energy when we are dieing from a bad hamburger...
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
This is just a distractionary greenwash.
It's kind of staggering to realize that there are almost 100 million cows in the US.
Please help metamoderate.
If only Gary Larson was still making Far Side comics. I'm certain he would make a very funny one!
--jeffk++
ipv6 is my vpn
YES! A legitimate place to plug the Calorie Man books. Although Paolo envisioned gene-altered elephants or something, and not cows.
Wouldn't this force the cattle to build muscle, and thereby create tougher eating meat... thus reducing the demand for cattle meat?
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY
-Morbo
(Stupid filter... I am yelling.)
What did the cow say about it?
in 3, 2, 1..
Seriously, I'm not a PETA-type person at all, and even I think this is kind of a cruel thing to do to animals, even if it's cows we're talking about. Granted, they're not in the least bit bright, but we already use them for milk and eventually kill them for their meat and hide, it seems rather heartless to make them generate power as well.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
while you and a few others will decide the pen is too small someone else will come along and call you barbaric for what you accept. Some may decide that one size permits too much movement which somehow injures the cow. Another might decide its painted the wrong color, get what I mean? There is permanent goal, meet one and they will make another or move it further out.
No farmer wants animals harmed or raised in unsafe manners, it is not cost effective. On a farm with a few thousand head of cattle it ain't hard to find an animal who is not healthy or into a situation you could not predict.
As far as the quip about big corporations and cubes, spend less time ranting and more time starting your own business. Oh, I forgot, ranting is so much easier. There is a reason why so many are employed by big corporations, it is because it is far easier to let someone else make the decisions for you and take the risk for you. This is the same reason why many have no problem giving up their personal and financial freedom to the government for the coddling they believe they receive in return.
We seem to put more care into the well being of animals than ourselves.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The article should have gotten Gary Larson (Far Side) to illustrate the concept. I picture the Cow standing on hind legs running on a treadmill at the gym with an ipod and watching Oprah.
...eventually take off?
You haven't thought of the most critical question which is will this improve the quality of my beef? Will it make my fillet even more juicy and delicious, or will it make my tenderloin toughderloin? Think Man!!
We raise pigs on pasture. They will literally walk many miles a day. Generally they walk a ways and then graze or root, walk a ways, eat again, walk, eat, etc. From their night area near our house in the home fields they walk out as far as a mile at times, usually less though. The incline could work. The big sows and boars weight 800 to 1,400 lbs. With the right motivation they would walk for an hour or so but then they're going to want to lay down and rest so if you want continuous power you'll need to have at least two of of these running and be swapping out animals frequently.
Cheers
-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/butchershop
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/csa
King's Landing Historic Park had a treadmill like this that was powered by oxen or horses for running simple machines. So this isn't totally new.
- Peace
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
...ya know is they will be hooking cows up to giant turn styles to power grist mills and pump irrigation water.
We have seen the Green Future and it is the past!
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
This is from the Onion, right?
If not, then PETA is dropping cow pies all their offices right now.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I'm pretty sure if we could get 1.3 billion PEOPLE to run on a treadmill, we could produce just as much power, and we'd actually shed some fat....
Nah, screw it. Make the cows do it.
This is so stupid it should posted as: "Idiot has a dumb idea and thinks it is great". Come on, not caring about the cows at all, where does the green energy comes from??? Not paying for the damn energy doesnt make it green. This audience should be smart enough to realise that the energy coming from a F... cow wastes much more energy than a really really bad coal plant!!! The number of steps from real energy in the beginning of the food chain up until that damn cow walks up the alley is ridiculous.
Just said "green" people can be so damn stupid.
That explains why that new temp is always spitting her curd on the monitor in her cube.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef
" The difference between Choice and Prime is largely due to the fat content in the beef. Prime typically has a higher fat content than Choice. The fat in Prime beef is also distributed evenly (also known as "marbling")."
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
1) Yes, they're locked in but you could only have them locked in for an hour or two of this work.
2) No, they're not walking out of fear of falling and the incline is not a problem. We live on a mountain. Our pastures are on the sides of the mountain and far steeper than the incline of that treadmill. Our livestock as well as the moose, deer, turkeys, etc all do fine walking up and down the slopes.
Dude, you're arguing with an "animal rights" type of person. There's no point. Someone like that is beyond reason or logic and living in a self fabricated cartoon reality. It's a mental illness like any other form of extremism. The OP should be in a mental institution.
Have you tried overclocking them?
Didn't think so.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
i agree with you, should be voluntarily. walking 8 hours a day... ripped beef thighs. i want my thighs all fattied up. tortured cows are not kosher or halal
I wish I had mod points. Some people talk out of their ass. the GP poster is a moron, how it got modded "interesting" only shows those moderators are morons too.
Besides .... THEY'RE COWS. They're stupid. However I'm starting to think they are smarter than certain people.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Hamburger meat is most often made from ground beef. The beef is ground because it's tough. The beef is tough precisely because of exercise.
Prime cuts actually come from the type of cows that are restricted from moving so much in the farm. Not sure if they're healthier, as they do have more marbling (fat), but I'm just saying that hamburgers WILL be the only type of beef available if all cows exercised. :P
Pet peeve: Profane people propagating perfunctory pedantry.
Finally, something to brag about, I think this is an awesome idea, and should be sent out to all dairy farmers, in order for them to think of the bigger picture. Not only make money for milk, but keep themselves off the grid, or even give back some.
Beef tastes better when you've named it.
Woot first point for the day. As usual idealists live in a 1 dimensional universe where they again fail to see the whole cost beyound the end of their nose.
He isn't on to something, and anyone that thinks this is a great idea is a stark raving idiot.
A: Treadmills don't far well outside. More roofed covered space. Nor to treadmills grow on trees.
B: Carbon footprint for the manfacturing of said treadmills
C: Additional feed for active cows now burning more calories. More waste from more feed too
D: Energy loss in conversion to heat from friction from transmission points
E: More wiring and cabling sucking down more copper from an already stressed raw material market. Ohms.... .Ohms.....
F: Who in their right mind thinks: taking solar energy and water and converting it into biomass
Then using millions of tons of fossil fuels to build machinery to develop and harvest biomass.
Feed said biomass to another animal
To use millions of tons of fossil fuels in manufacturing a kinetic engery transfomation device (treadmill)
To then power a machine to generate a fraction of the energy "THE SUN PUT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE!?
Jebus Rice we are getting shit-eating stupid pretty damn fast when people think "Hey they're on to something..."
Narrow minded morons never looking past their own nose on what real costs are.
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
A 4 pedal stationary bike is more efficient and the cows prefer them, we use about 12 and they produce about 36 kw a day.
According to the source article I read, the treadmill seems to help cows reduce methane production. The idea is that cows that don't move around are more gassy than cows that move around.
Would walk, no RUN, up the treadmill no matter what the setting, and still produce milk and sirloin that would make you cry in ectasy.
treadmill capable of supporting a cow for 8 hours a day? And how much energy to ship them to where cattle are. And what's the lifetime of a treadmill with a cow walking on it 8 hours a day. And how efficiently can the energy be integrated into the farm's electric system or local grid?
It doesn't matter what % of the world's power can be generated at a given point. The net energy of one of these devices is what matters if you want to save the earth.
Instead of....inclination, i would put a carrot type in front of them, and if they walk, then the belt moves, if they dont then the belt does not move..but it all comes down to if the cow wants, then there would be no issue with being inhuman, seeing as it could rest if it wanted to...its sheer will to get that carrot would be whats making it move.
Sonic when you need him. Eggman must be stopped from capturing innocent animals and putting them to work.
it's much more efficient to eat bread and vegetables in terms of how much food grown makes it to you
Not really, because bread and vegetables are harder to digest than meat. Furthermore, if you can't grow grain for bread, you can't (efficiently) make bread. Look at the vast majority of the world's livestock farms and see if you can figure out how to grow grain on them.
"steals a treat from the kitty litter box"
That's one of the funniest lines i've read in a long time :)
2 points of retort:
This would no doubt result in more methane.
Absolutely - Let's hook up a proper methane capturing device... That or find a way to auto-light it. BBQ beef and methane reduction in one!
It's kind of staggering to realize that there are almost 100 million cows in the US.
I live in the midwest, and that number seems low to me. Are you counting the heifers that walk around the cities? Or the farm animals?
So 1 horsepower is approx 700W and 1 cowpower is approx 2000W. Who would have thunk that 1 cowpower ~= 3 horsepowers?
872835240
Considering the super numerous convicts clogging our prisons and jails perhaps that treadmill could be better powered by them than by cattle.
Greenies and farmers always seem to be talking past each other on this point.
Meat livestock was developed to be able to produce food on areas where you can't really grow human edible crops, generally because it's too dry or hilly, or the soil is too poor. You can produce a fair number of cattle this way. This is how most of the developing world does it, and how a fair number of farmers still do it in the US.
However, because they grow slower and not as big that way, most modern cattle is grass-fed for the first half of their life before being being put in a feedlot to fatten. This requires a fair amount of grain, the total amount depending on how long they are in the lot and what portion of their growth is meant to take place there. There is obviously an equilibrium point somewhere along this where beef starts to be less efficient to eat than eating the corn direction.
Some farmers and commercial farms put the young cattle in the feedlot earlier, and feed them grain from the start. This makes them grow faster and takes less acreage, but it requires a ton of grain. The numbers you hear cited by vegetarians to support their cause as more ecologically sound almost *always* cite this number for the pounds of grain it takes to make one pound of beef.
So, some level of beef production is definitely more efficient than growing corn, because you can raise beef cattle in areas where you really can't grow corn. However, our current methods and amount of production generally exceed this.
However, the industry standard is not to sit every steer down in a lot for his entire life and feed him nothing but grain. Mostly because this *is* as inefficient as the anti-beef people claim. The way cattle are actually raised in general is somewhere in the middle.
Not really, because bread and vegetables are harder to digest than meat
What does ease of digestion have to do with how much food makes it to you? Further: http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html: "Each year an estimated 41 million tons of plant protein is fed to U.S. livestock to produce an estimated 7 million tons of animal protein for human consumption."
So, a 5.8:1 ratio.
Please help metamoderate.
Cows that run.
This would also give the cows more muscle, which equals more and better beef. I can see this being feasible sometime, possibly...
It might seem like a net benefit here would require violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics but you can't reduce the metabolism of a large herd animal to a single mathematical variable. Think about how unhealthy and 'out of shape' the average meat or dairy cow is. Now consider how an overweight, under-active human doesn't necessarily have a reduced caloric intake (if anything just the opposite). Putting a cow on a treadmill (ethical arguments not withstanding) is virtually guaranteed to increase the cow's metabolic efficiency...
This reminds me of welfare. Back in the 30s, through the WPA, the government essentially operated a welfare for work system with their many public works projects. People dug ditches or cleared land or built things. What if we required current welfare participants (within their ability) to pedal a generator for a few hours a day? It would eliminate the argument that they get something for nothing, cut down on abuse, get people in shape, require no skills, and partially offset the system costs by producing something of value.
Of course, it would be easy to paint this idea as slavery or abuse, so it would never survive the political test. Maybe China could implement it.
I would bet that the only cows on these treadmills are the dairy cows
Correct. The article states that
One cow can produce about two kilowatts of electricity, enough energy to power four milking machines
So at least it seems implied.
Reply to That ||
Given that 1 horsepower (hp) = 746 watts, 2Kw = 2.68hp.
It's generally accepted that your typical horse can't even put out 1hp for extended periods, so I have to assume that this cow of theirs is only going to put out 2hp for extremely short bursts.
I suppose the article could be confusing Kw with Kwh, but then the "one cow [can produce]... enough energy to power" doesn't make sense.
Overall, I call b-s, or cow-s, as the case may be.
Animals have no dignity some people. Really! Stuck in a little box and also demeaned by having to walk the whole time ! Fuck those assholes! I hope everyone involved gets mad cow disease and almost dies. Next thing your gonna say is it's more healthy than not moving in a box. Mod me as a troll or flamebait but this is how I feel. I'm not trying to get a reaction but I feel that farmers who keep cattle closed in a little pen with no freedom deserve real punishment.
(__)
(oo)
/ -----\/
/ | . .
* .
~~ ~~
Dairy cows are rarely (if ever) "locked up all the time".
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
There are two glaring faults with this setup:
#1) The cows are 'locked in'.
#2) The treadmill is inclined.
This results in the animal walking out of 'fear' from falling. The inability of the animal to stop whenever it wants is cruel treatment. On the other hand, if it were 'elective' and the cows got a special treat (a yummy grass/feed?) then it is a different story.
I would like to see how guy would like to be locked onto a treadmill 8hrs a day, walking uphill the entire time.
I doubt the quality of the milk would be very good. Stress does not make for a nice quality or quantity of milk. (I used to work on a dairy farm.)
Just put a hay bale at the end of the treadmill.
You might want to differentiate between beef and dairy cows. A lot of grain is used to fatten up beef cattle for the market, after the cattle are fed on the range. This 'finishing' process is one of the reasons why there are stock yards.
Still, because producing milk takes a lot of protein, corn or other high protein substances are needed to supplement forage that comes in the form of hay or even grass if you are lucky enough to have a source of water. Grass or hay doesn't quite hack it.
Do note that using corn for ethanol is fairly wasteful and is one of the reasons that food prices have gone up. It is much better to use non-food vegetation for ethanol production.
Balancing all the inputs and outputs can get pretty complex, which is why ag majors were learning how to use linear programming based programs over three decades ago. Said programs allowed them to come up with cost effective grain-forage-supplement mixes for feeding beef and dairy cattle.
and shit = money
we call that biogas here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogas
Sigh... there are some evil people in the world. With "animal lovers" like you, who needs enemies?
Not that one should really consider evolution at all when talking about human-related activities, but really - for a cow, it's most important survival trait as a species is the fact that it's so so very tasty.
Compare how many cows there are alive today with other large land herbivores. See? Sure each and every one is going to end up on a plate, but survival of the species is assured.
--
Someone else above claims that cows that exercise produce less methane.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
"1x2m enclosed space" I've never heard or seen this. The beef that we raised wouldn't even fit in that space. Do you have any proof that this is a common beef producing practice? The only time our cattle were in a space that small was for the brief time they entered the milking station...and that's dairy cattle which are typically more narrow, not beef. Now, feed lots...that's a different story but I've still never seen a feed lot with 1x2m enclosed spaces...it doesn't even make economic sense to build all those individual "cages" for beef production. (possibly Kobe beef?? but its production is not representative of the livestock industry in the U.S. that I am familiar with).
Cows are happy pretty much anywhere they don't have to swat flies. Treating a cow like a human is sheer stupidity because it would make them miserable.
I can see that you know a lot about cows. For the unenlightened, can you kindly explain how you determine that a cow is happy? Being that I (like others on /.) am scientifically oriented, I expect that you'll refer to FMRI screenings or other equally scientific methods of determining happiness in contrasting environments. Ad-hominem attacks are a good opener, but, please, bring the meat.
Only I can judge you.
I'm sure they are very happy wherever they don't have to swat flies. And I agree treating any animal as a human, is just stupid. However an animal is an animal, weather dog, cat, cow, or elephant.
However putting an animal on a treadmill, and then walking away is just wrong.
@COMON$ Would you put your yellow lab on a treadmill for the day so you could get down your electricity bill? Just tie him to the treadmill, and you go to work. He'd be getting the same amount of exercise as playing outside all day, so might as well make it useful?
I find people justify things very selectively. @COMON$ I love animals, etc etc. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you won't eat your dog after he passes away, but its ok to eat cows. Its ok to put a cow on a treadmill to benefit me, but its not ok to put my yellow lab on a treadmill to benefit me, because I say so....and i like the yellow lab...
I find all these arguments are all just bullshit. Either all animals are equal, in which case throw that lab of your on a treadmill if there's nothing wrong with it.
There's something wrong with it, I assure you.
I know that we would all hate to be generating power for machines after the robot apocalypse, so why are we doing this to cows?
What about the "Golden Rule"? How about the "Golden Arches" Rule?
Hey, I was only kidding. You don't have to MOD me "Troll" . . . again . . . .
How about we stop farming cows and use the land for soya instead which produces far more milk and edible matter per acre. Meat farming is wasteful and unsustainable.
Cow-a-watt: New Green unit of electrical measurement.
Take the Red Pill.
If the world's energy needs are not met with the current supply of cows, we may need to transform more foxes into cows. How do you turn a fox into a cow?
You marry her.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=KsG&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=livestock+industry+brutality&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
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The COWtrix
I agree with you that animals should not be treated as humans, thats just plain stupid. However all animals should be treated equally. There should be no difference between your cat, dog, elephant, and cow. This is one a single opinion, among millions, if you dont have anything constructive to argue then dont answer. Saying you are a animal lover is in my opinion unlikely. Just because you have a cat and a dog, while you eat cows and other meat says nothing about you being an animal lover (I know you didnt say you do, but I'm assumiung you do, and if it doesnt apply to you, it applies to any of the 100 other commentors). Will you eat your yellow lab after he dies ? (probably not) Other parts of the world think its fine to eat dogs, and cats. I just have a big issue with people saying, I'm an animal lover, I eat cows, I dont eat dogs. Putting a cow on a treadmill to benefit me is ok, but putting my lab on a treadmill for 8 hours, is cruel. In that case, to all of you above saying this is ok, then throw your cat and dog on a treadmill for the day and let me know why its different ? in a nutshell, animals are not humans. All animals are animals, wether you think their 'cute' or not, shouldnt dictate how you treat them. /rant
yes i'm a vegetarian.
nothing you said put anything to perspective. you were dead wrong in all of them.
people do not have 'choice'. some may go rebel and adopt a life that would allow them to work for themselves and not be a gear in corporate grinding machine, but many have obligations and people to take care for, and they cannot do anyhting else but submit.
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Woot first point for the day. As usual idealists live in a 1 dimensional universe where they again fail to see the whole cost beyound the end of their nose.
He isn't on to something, and anyone that thinks this is a great idea is a stark raving idiot.
A: Treadmills don't far well outside. More roofed covered space. Nor to treadmills grow on trees.
B: Carbon footprint for the manfacturing of said treadmills
C: Additional feed for active cows now burning more calories. More waste from more feed too
D: Energy loss in conversion to heat from friction from transmission points
E: More wiring and cabling sucking down more copper from an already stressed raw material market. Ohms.... .Ohms.....
F: Who in their right mind thinks: taking solar energy and water and converting it into biomass
Then using millions of tons of fossil fuels to build machinery to develop and harvest biomass.
Feed said biomass to another animal
To use millions of tons of fossil fuels in manufacturing a kinetic engery transfomation device (treadmill)
To then power a machine to generate a fraction of the energy "THE SUN PUT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE!?
Jebus Rice we are getting shit-eating stupid pretty damn fast when people think "Hey they're on to something..."
Narrow minded morons never looking past their own nose on what real costs are.
A. We're talking about ag quality treadmills, not human quality. Ag equipment tends to be designed to handle weather, dirt and manure while lasting a lot longer than treadmills meant for humans.
B. While manufacturing/maintaining the treadmills has a carbon footprint, so does getting power from non-treadmill generators to the milking machines.
C. Is that much additional feed needed? Farmers do have to consider feed costs in all the things they do. If they are lucky, they have their own feed sources or feed sources that are close by. I do recall one version of the article claiming that the cows wouldn't be any more active on the treadmill than they would be in the field.
D. All conversion systems have energy losses. To minimize these losses you need to get the generator as close to the end user as possible. In this case, the cow powered treadmill could be used to power the equipment used to milk the cow powering the treadmill, with an offset due to timing. (Batteries would likely be needed, or some sort of schedule that has X cows on the treadmills while Y cows are being milked.)
E. When considering the cost of copper, you also need to consider the demands that the solar industry and the wind power industry are putting on the market. Is the amount of material required for treadmills, with their reduced point to point losses, less than the amount of material needed to move power from solar and wind farms?
F. You might consider the treadmill idea to be more a case of trying to use an unused resource as opposed to creating a new power system. If the total value, financial and environmental, of the power generated exceeds the total cost, financial and environmental, of the equipment and other resources needed to generate that power, then it is a good idea. Note that these factors WILL vary location. Also note that the person promoting the idea wanted to reduce his dependency on fossil fuels. (In an area with lots of water and a good climate for growing hay, this could be done by using horses as opposed to tractors.)
General Comment: To be completely fair to all points of view, the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider all of the above and more before accepting or rejecting the idea.
I nominate "cowlisthenics".
beyond reason or logic
Damnit, logic is just a formal system; it's a machine that you put assumptions into to produce other statements which are true so long as the assumptions are. That's it. "Logical" is not a synonym for "correct."
As for your argument with GP: Personally, I don't think GP said anything particularly extreme. He's probably not even vegetarian.
Sounds like you haven't been on a dairy farm recently. In the US, you almost never see dairy cattle outside anymore. Milk is entirely factory farmed. The dairy farmers in my family hate it. They told me they had two choices, factor farm or quit. Traditional dairy farming can't compete. They told me they do let the cows out, maybe ever other year or so. They're basically locked up, in a system that is designed to keep them from moving. Moving wastes calories. It was not a pleasant sight.
The numbers you hear cited by vegetarians to support their cause as more ecologically sound almost *always* cite this number for the pounds of grain it takes to make one pound of beef.
But what they don't take into consideration is that the amount of grain that *doesn't* get turned into meat gets turned into fertiliser. Growing arable crops without "input" from livestock farming is pretty much impossible. You could use only petrochemical-derived fertilisers to grow vegetables and make no use of animal products, but it would be woefully inefficient and ecologically damaging.
The other thing the "ZOMG MEAT IS SO NOT GREEN" whiners forget is that in commercial arable farming, you take a bit of land and strip *every single living thing* off it, and out of the soil to the depth of about half a metre. Once it's thoroughly killed and sterilised, you can let Monsanto in to plant their frankencorn. Yay for ecology.
Given that cows and associated infrastructure are a huge methane/CO2 emitter, wouldn't it make more sense to just NOT factory farm them?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Not all ag land is suitable for growing crops that are human consumable. That is one of the problems with the 'soy' argument.
Properly handled, a lot of this marginal ag land works well for grazing. Unfortunately, there are a lot of greedy types that overgraze the land and cause problems.
At the same time, there are a lot of crop growing types that abuse the land and cause problems too.
As a bonus, he speculates that it might cut cattle's methane problem--cows burp up to 20 percent of the world's emissions of this powerful greenhouse gas. Humans, he notes, tend to be more gassy if they lounge around. "Helping cows produce less methane while cranking out energy should get them better PR."
This strikes me as complete BS. For one, I'm pretty sure methane comes out the _other_ end, not in a "burp". (Burps come from accidentally ingested air. Farts come from methane produced by gut bacteria. Stomachs have sphincter valves to keep stuff from flowing backwards.) For another, exercise makes people _feel_ less gassy simply because it helps the methane escape! Shaking the intestinal contents probably promotes methane production, in much the same way that rotating composters promote faster composting.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Good for them, anyways.
Let the cows WALK to gather GRASS instead. Then use the corn for ethanol! Why we insist on feeding 75% of our grain production to ruminants baffles me.
Because it is more economically efficient to feed cattle a corn diet that promotes/induces rapid growth in a feed lot and gets them to the slaughterhouse faster. Next time you go to a fast food restaurant (and the data says you probably do) and pay $1 for a hamburger, think about the economies of scale required to support that sort of price point. Yes there are significant environmental, health and economic consequences to providing meat cheaply.
Never mind that switchgrass is more efficient for making ethanol. Why would you use corn for ethanol when grass will literally get you more bang for your buck?
Lean beef
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
Treated equally huh, I used to have pet hamsters, they ate meat and liked to chew on wood...should I do the same for cows or my dog? What about my goldfish? Should I put it outside in a dog kennel and teach it to fetch? I mean I don't want to treat things with inequality...
Yes I fully admit, I treat animals differently than each other. Guess what I do the same with people. Because there is no such thing as equality as you are putting it. Animals are different, thus they get treated differently. Yes I also believe I am an animal lover and I know people would disagree with that because it is a subjective statement. I treat my pets well by the standards I hold true. Other people would say I am cruel. But of course some people say it is cruel to have pets at all. But my definition is not subject to your opinion unless you can find a qualitative value as to what an "Animal lover is". If my dog enjoyed being on a treadmill for 8 hours (which if she was not scared to death of them I think she would do for at least 3 hours a day and smile the whole time) I would think that would be great. However, this is a natural thing for cows, as was pointed out in the article. Most all the cows where I grew up (in a hilly valley) keep moving all day without a though in the world.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
(ie: I have no use for environmentalists as I want to USE the resources we protect)
There is value in many things other than how much they can increase your bank account. If you can't see that I truly pity you.
Cows are inefficient (and better suited to other purposes) We should turn our attention further down the food chain. Why lot leverage the gazillion insects out there that serve no better purpose and put them to work on nano-scale "hamster" wheel generators? Fields and fields of insect generators, Matrix-style.
Are cows really a low-emission energy source? :P
People eat the cows and everything which isn't spread on the fields ends up in the ocean. There's a conveyor belt of mass from the farm to the seabed, powered by oil.
Deleted
This just shows how un-efficent eating meat is - save energy and the planet: stop eating meat
6% of the world's power? Sweet.
But it will never happen. Traditionally conventional power companies have legislated alternative power sources out of existence the moment they start to actually compete. Like the recent political maneuvering by power companies on the East Coast and in Texas to limit cheap wind power availability. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=politics-of-wind-power
Back in the 70's and 80's Senator William Proxmire (D - Wisconsin) handed out 'Golden Fleece' awards to groups that were doing things that he considered to be a waste of tax payers money.
I believe that one of the awards went to a group that was trying to reduce flatulence in cows.
It is interesting how said research has relevance today.
It is even more interesting that Proxmire represented a state that got a lot of price supports for the dairy industry.
Odds are your fancier cuts come from beef cattle as opposed to the dairy cows of the article.
Your hamburger and dog food might come from the dairy cow after her milk production level drops too low to be profitable.
There is also a chance that the fancier cuts may come from the offspring of a dairy cow if the dairy cow was bred to a beef bull.
Since 1 horse power is 0.7kW, and a cow generate 2kW, 1 cow power of 1 k.p. = 3 h.p.
Either these cows are under extreme pressure, or this is some kind of super-cow.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
Two kilowatts is an unlikely estimate for the output of a single cow. A horsepower is about 750 W, and was based on peak output of a large draft horse. I doubt a cow can produce more than a fraction of a horsepower continuously.
Now the farmer may believe the number because the picture shows the cow powering some kind of machine through a linkage. Since a generator rated at 2kw can't start a very large electric motor, it is easy to believe that the cow can substitute for a 2kw generator in that application.
The other thing the "ZOMG MEAT IS SO NOT GREEN" whiners forget is that in commercial arable farming, you take a bit of land and strip *every single living thing* off it, and out of the soil to the depth of about half a metre. Once it's thoroughly killed and sterilised, you can let Monsanto in to plant their frankencorn. Yay for ecology.
Definitely true. And if they didn't, they'd need twice the surface area to be able to feed our population. So it's a big mess either way. Existing has an environmental impact.
Some veal is produced that way. But there are other types of veal.
My wife, an ag major, often tells the tale of a beef-dairy cross that was raised on grass and cow's milk. The calf was bigger than his mother at about the time he was ready for slaughter. He would have qualified as veal if they hadn't decided to 'finish' him on grain.
I was under the impression that cows make lots of methane when eating lots of grain, instead of grass, as nature recommended.
KFC has created the chicken-beast ( a chicken with 6 legs), so let them create a pig-a-pede. A pig with 100 legs. Think of all the ham, ribs, bacon, etc. you would get out of one, and it should be able to operate a very long treadmill.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
How is this any different from using an ox to pull a plow, except that now the ox is physically separated from the plow? The animal still does the work.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
"I would like to see how guy would like to be locked onto a treadmill 8hrs a day, walking uphill the entire time."
you don't work in an office, do you?
Yes you did have a pet hamster, but teaching it to fetch is pointless. I’m saying what is wrong with eating the gold fish, or the hamster, or the lab? I treat different people differently too, but the issue that I was trying to get out, is that if we ask a cow if it wants to be artificially impregnated so that it produces milk its whole life, or if veal wants to be ground up, or a cow standing on a treadmill to produce power, that these things should not be subjective weather you think they are wrong or not. ( obviously they are subjective now, the point I'm trying to make is that they shouldn't be) Your definition is not subject to my opinion, no, its not, however I'm just trying to point out that there is an impartial view to things. In a nutshell, I like to think that as a species which has culture, spirit, and the most "intelligence" on this planet, that we would be able to get past our basic instincts, and see that putting your dog/cat/cow on a treadmill is in fact all the same. Or eating your dog/goldfish/cow/veal is all the same, and would hope, that one day we will become a little more sophisticated, and be able to show more empathy than you average lion.
A standard horsepower is less than 0.75kW, so for a cow to be producing 2kW they would have to be using whips!
I suspect this is a left-over April fools article
I'm sure people will get all up in arms over this but why not put prisoners on a treadmill or exercise bike and make them generate electricity.
Have them do it on a rotating roster and you have base load power...
Just a thought
Using a feed delivery system connected to the treadmill, the cow would probably be enticed to walk toward the food as it does in a free range setting; each step bringing the food a measure closer. This would not induce any stress on the animal as it is not only voluntary but part of its' normal habits. By adjusting the ratio of treadmill walking to time of food arrival the animal would not be walking continually for hours, but say in 5-10 min. intervals with a minute or so break to eat before it would 'walk' to the next clump of food. Through simple trial and error an optimum schedule that maximizes walk time, power generation, with animal health can be found. At minimum, using the cows own habit of walking could power the food delivery and waste removal (which would conveniently fall off the end of the treadmill into a removal system instead of needing to be mucked out) would save farms energy costs, and any excess power added back to the grid.
I agree with you, should be voluntarily. walking 8 hours a day... ripped beef thighs. i want my thighs all fattied up. tortured cows are not kosher or halal
Are you crazy? Walking 8 hours is torture? Are you aware of what life in nature is like? ...though I am pretty sure you are kidding. So never mind.
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
Instead of....inclination, i would put a carrot type in front of them, and if they walk, then the belt moves, if they dont then the belt does not move..but it all comes down to if the cow wants
I think even a cow would catch on to the carrot trick after a while.
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
Can someone enlighten me, how someone could possibly see this as a flamebait? What the... I don’t get it.
Man, some people should perhaps take of their mental distortion glasses, before misinterpreting weird things into other people’s comments...
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Wrong.
Le français vous intéresse?
You have to feed those cattle enough food to produce that energy, and because the Laws of Thermodynamics are not subject to legislative decree or even the most well-intentioned wishes, it's still a loser.
clicked throught the first page of results...no evidence of 1x2m enclosed spaces for cows. Actually, the search results produce little evidence of any bovine brutality outside of feeling bad for milk cows due to the continuous milk production cycle (not saying it doesn't happen...just surprised your search did not produce any results on the first page). Like I said...it doesn't make sense, economic or otherwise, to "store" a cow in a 1x2m space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming
http://farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfarming/
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Roman_Mir: The ONLY way you could be married, is if the broad was brain-dead, or needed money. Which one of those 2 choices do you fall under we wonder?? Also, what's the man whom you married's name (male only, as we all pretty much know you're a homo in the closet GOOFY and doubtless you paid for the sex change he OR YOU had, lol!).
Some of those people on those scooters have reaped what they have sown with 20-30 years of smoking cigarettes, crack and meth while the one's with congenital problems sometimes have to wait a half hour on a bench in the front of the store for one of those fat/meth-addled pieces of trash to gather their 200 dollars worth of food stamps that month. What I have a problem with is some of these people on Medicaid who have spent their entire adult lives smoking crack having millions of dollars of health care thrown at them when the US won't even pay for a fucking pap smear for a straight A college student.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
There are two glaring faults with this setup:
#1) The cows are 'locked in'.
#2) The treadmill is inclined.
This results in the animal walking out of 'fear' from falling. The inability of the animal to stop whenever it wants is cruel treatment. On the other hand, if it were 'elective' and the cows got a special treat (a yummy grass/feed?) then it is a different story.
I would like to see how guy would like to be locked onto a treadmill 8hrs a day, walking uphill the entire time.
I doubt the quality of the milk would be very good. Stress does not make for a nice quality or quantity of milk. (I used to work on a dairy farm.)
Who said the treadmills where inclined?
quit relating human things to animals.
Be seeing you...
The Cow Matrix is coming.
Cows will be imprisoned into virtual reality while they walk around to produce electricity.
Very soon some crazy scientists with no mercy for animals will discover that they could optimize the system with piezoelectric carpets and pressure-based generators. Then the cruel, dark world of the Matrix movies will be a reality for the cows.
And soon enough the world is going to be powered by sleepwalking cows.
The bravest cows will try to escape the system, but their overlords with the nickname "Farmers" will reduce them to stakes for trying that.
Of course, the Neo Cow will save them all in the end.
If someone is going to make a movie from this, I want epSos.de to be credited for it !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_the_Cow That treadmill would get slippery pretty quick.
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
Let's do it for them....
Short of a trusty old cattle prod, what on Earth would motivate a cow to work a treadmill for 8 hours per day?
Why don't we just tie long ropes to elephants and then frighten them into stampeding! We could attach the ropes to pulleys and drive electric generators.
You all forget one eenzy weenzy fact. It takes 6 units of plant protein for US to make 1 unit of meat protein (in our body-mass) too! So when we eat steak, we are getting concentrated protein, or we'd have to eat a LOT of bran which also takes a lot of energy to grow, be processed, packaged, bought, delived and eaten.
don't be so upset, you'll find yourself someone who could love you one day, I mean even the ugliest and the dumbest and even the most morally absent creatures find someone, I am sure you will too.
You can't handle the truth.
You would obvisouly have to give it to the cow once in awhile, in order for it
to know there is hope, maybe after having waled a certain distance or that after a particular amount fo feet it moves forward some..then the cow gets to it...and the process repeats, you know
we were able to come up with being able to put man on the moon, i am sure they can devise a method or machine that does just this.
Each animal has a different "idea" of what is fun. Some of the more intelligent animals need a lot of stimulus to be happy. We have tools to measure the "attitudes" of animals, but I am not a zoologist so I don't know if they do it by measuring hormones, weight, activity or what. But there are quantitative measuring tools to discover what makes a given animal content. We need to measure that rather than applying our own emotions to the battle. Obviously I will defend my pets a lot stronger than you would as I have an emotional attachment to them. I could not eat them because of this attachment. But as a food lover I would eat dog, or goldfish to see if I liked it. But there are many meats I just do not enjoy. I enjoy vegetables and fruit much more than meat. As a Christian we believe that we were originally created vegetarians. However, I do love a good steak or cheeseburger :)
To sum up, a fish can swim in a tiny bowl its whole life and be measurably happy, it could be that a cow would be just as happy walking on a treadmill. But assuming they arent because we wouldn't be happy doing it, or another animal wouldn't be happy is a bad way of measuring things. I just dont like it when people judge me giving my dog Science Diet because "Would YOU eat that crap?" No but my dog seems to LOVE it.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
Roman_Mir didn't do so well here http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1622780&cid=31904240 just judging by his lame off topic trolling reply, as well as his inability to disprove what was written there.
Cows With Guns
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I'm guessing TFA meant kilowatt-hours, ie 2000 watt-hours of total energy you get from the cow in a day. Confusing watts and watt-hours seems to be a common mistake, and I'd be surprised if the cow's putting out that much power.
Saying "I'll probably get modded down for this" in a post is the best way to get it modded up.
His name is Lena, and hey, there are sad, desperate folks all over the world ;)
This would no doubt result in more methane.
Wrong. Just like physically active people, physically active cows are less gassy and produce less methane.