Are you sure? I assumed that the joke was that he was posting the ad on Slashdot because he didn't like Craigslist because anyone can post anything there (unlike Slashdot, where anyone can also post anything there too).
But then I guess it's not funny if you have to explain it.
This got me wondering how much damage a cell phone can actually take.
One of my previous phones was working just fine one minute, and then the next minute it wasn't, and it never worked again. Based on the overwhelming weight of that single anecdote I would have to say that 'none it all' is how much damange a cell phone can actually take and still continue working.
(by a strange coincidence, 'none at all' is exactly how much of a scientific conclusion you can draw from this:)
No, the logic belongs to the app. The database is there to store data, how we are going to use it is app-dependent.
Be careful with generalizations. It's a matter of requirements not some universal law.
If it makes sense to put it in the app and you don't particularly care about performance or security (because you trust your users) then put it in the app. I would have a problem with letting an untrusted user execute direct queries against my database though - the app has to log in somehow to the database with a username and password, and it's never hard to extract the username and password, and so suddenly a malicious user has access to do pretty much anything they want. If the app can delete a single order then the user can delete all orders etc.
Some advantages of putting business logic in the database are: 1. code reuse - your windows app, linux app, web app, and mobile app can all re-use the same business logic and just have to focus on the presentation layer. 2. control - you get to control exactly what the app can do, audit it etc, because all access goes through your stored procedures 3. performance - as fast as your network is, you aren't going to beat having the code running in the database process itself 4. performance again - left to their own devices, users will construct horrible queries that will sap the very life out of your database. If they have to go through your stored procedures then they can't wreak as much havoc on your server.
But at the end of the day the requirements might be that only a few trusted users are going to use this app, all access is via the web, and they want it finished yesterday, and so suddenly none of the above advantages really matter so much...
Fsck swearing... I want to hear them go a whole month (or even an hour) without saying any word starting with the letter 's' or something creative like that. The person that breaks the rule the most gets to sit on one of those seats over a tub of water that you throw tennis balls at a target and if you hit it dumps them in. Or even better, a bucket of slime over everyone's head that gets poured on them whenever they say "I don't know".
Their job is to make sure the market is running effectively.
Nope. Last time I did any sort of legal studies at school, the role of the courts was to apply the law to the matter at hand. They can also interpret the law in cases of ambiguity (eg for situations that didn't exist when the law was created). It's certainly not their role to set policies for commerce though. If the law says one thing they they have to apply it whether they think its fair or not.
If something attracts as much attention as this then the government might start floating around policy changes to 'fix' the situation up, but that's not the role of the courts.
('fix' is in quotes because the cynic in me says that it will be 'fixed' according to whoever throws them enough money...)
Nice idea for smaller networks but I doubt having a seperate bucket for every IP scales very well.
Why not? A TBF is about the simplest shaping method you can do! It requires a few 32 bit counters per IP and a few calculations per packet. Do you have a per-IP shaping idea that scales better?
If you had enough IP addresses where it might be a problem then you are almost certainly using NAT too, which requires a much larger memory and processing footprint than TBF.
KRYTEN: Logically, sir, there is only one way you could have possibly have opened that door. I feel quite nauseous. Where is it? LISTER: Where's what? KRYTEN: Oh, sir!! You've got it in your jacket!! LISTER: I got us out of the hold, didn't I? KRYTEN: Sir, you are sick! You are a sick, sick person! How can you possibly even conceive of such an idea? LISTER: Cheer up! Or I'll beat you to death with the wet end! KRYTEN: Sir, if mechanoids could barf, I'd be onto my fifth bag by now. You're a sick person! Sick! Sick!
Other industries don't have the right to set up usage rules.
Sure they do. If you buy a tool for one purpose and you use it for another purpose and it breaks, they aren't required to honor any warranty claim. Nobody is forcing you to make a warranty claim though, just like nobody is forcing you to buy a secondhand game and play it online.
Why is software different?
Because it is different. The whole problem with software is that people think it's the same and try to apply the same rules to it. They try and make up car analogies that apply to it but they (mostly) just don't work. Software is just data and data is so much more easy to copy than anything 'physical'. It needs its own rules and unfortunately we are going to spend the foreseeable future arguing about what those rules are, and going round and round in circles.
Forcing the second purchaser to pay extra money to access what should come with the game AS ADVERTISED is fraud in the purest sense.
Yes. Certainly if you advertise your second hand game as fully featured with no extra expenses required to activate any of those features and it turns out to not be true, then you have indeed committed fraud.
No, the car cannot be copied, but your right of reselling he car could very well be restricted.
But they'd never do it, which was my point. If you make it harder for me to sell my 3 year old Citroen C4 (because you've reduced the value of it by making it a less attractive second hand car as further expense is required after purchase), then firstly I'm less likely to sell it and buy a new car, and secondly I'm more likely to buy another brand instead... one that better retains its resale value.
Software manufacturers are already screwing over legitimate purchasers to try and stop piracy, so screwing them over further by stopping them selling their games is only a small step for them (and a 'logical' step from their point of view, which is 'how can we screw over our customers more?':). It's a big step for car manufacturers and is contrary to the way their business works.
That wasn't the question in this particular branch of this thread. The question was if car manufacturers would start trying to make the software in their cars not work after a resale, and it's more about how the marketplace behaves, which in turn depends on if software is "the whole product" or "a small part of a product", rather than if the "doctrine of first sale" applies or not.
Completely different market. With a computer game, the software is the product, it can be (illegally) copied very cheaply so the manufacturers need to find more creative ways to sustain their business models. With a car, the car is the product, and the software is just a component of it. And the car can't be copied cheaply so the existing business models work just fine.
That doesn't mean they won't try it of course... but unless there is collaboration across the whole car industry it won't fly.
I solved this problem at the local library's public access wireless with a linux router and a token bucket filter with a big bucket. Each IP address gets a 10MByte bucket that fills up at 256kbits/second. The bucket is big enough that they'll never know they are limited for normal browsing, but a torrent sucks it try really fast and drops down to a slow enough speed that it's not really worthwhile. And even if they do stick with it at least they aren't burning through tens of gigabytes per day. It beats any other filter i've ever tried.
I still fondly remember the howls of dismay from the leechers when I turned it... they just couldn't understand why their downloads start at 20mbits/second but slow down to a crawl almost straight away:)
Hire yourself out for parties. For $5/hour you could sit 10m away from the crowd and draw the mosquito's to you. You'd have your $50 in no time! You'd also have malaria, which is a bit of a downside.
Unless the detector is sitting right in line with the laser (or mirror), in which case it would get fried, there is going to be a difference between the angle that the detector determines the target is at and the angle required to shoot at the target from a slightly different starting point. And to determine that angle you need to know how far away it is.
Mosquito's are really tiny... i'm actually amazed they can hit them at all!
It'd be nice if they could determine the distance and somehow manipulate the cycles of the laser to only burn at that specific distance
Two slightly lower powered lasers might be able to do this, powered such that two of them need to hit the target to impart enough energy to fry it. Spaced slightly apart on the device they could intersect at the precise point of the mosquito, creating a much smaller 'kill' area instead of a long beam. We're talking about a much more complicated device though.
(such as my balls)
Assuming they are in your pants, they are probably quite safe. It's your eyeballs you should be really worried about.
Seriously. They aren't even trying. This isn't even remotely in the same league as Xbox 360 hacks and the like, which have evolved to be quite a bit stealthier due to Microsoft's detection efforts.
So the choices are...
1. don't try, and people will copy your stuff 2. try, and people will defeat it and copy your stuff.
I wonder which of the above two options is cheaper?
It's not so much pro-piracy, as anti-the-things-that-would-be-required-to-prevent-piracy.
In order to make a song or movie uncopyable, you end up punishing the people who aren't breaking the law. It's been the same way with copy protection ever since it was invented - the pirates make a copy with the copy protection removed and distribute that, and the legitimate users have to put up with the inconvenience. The list is long...
When software was distributed on audio tape for home computers, copy protection often relied on making sure that an audio copy reduced the fidelity below what would work... so unless your tape player was in perfect condition you might have problems with the original too. You also couldn't make yourself a backup copy.
When software was distributed on floppy disk, they copy protection was often 'type in word 4 on page 7 of the manual' (also on tape software), a parallel port dongle (incompatible with some printers), etc. Also the disk format would be modified - deliberate errors or slightly different sector layout, again preventing you making backups. A few software packages actually wrote back to the disk once they had been installed and only returned the disk to its original state when you uninstalled.
When CD's came along it was more of the same, although worse than floppy disks because there were a bunch of CD drives that were incompatible with the copy protection.
It's all of that crap that most of the people who you say are 'pro-piracy' are against. Although there will always be people who just feel they are entitled to get stuff for free...
Slashdot Mirror
But then you'd be deprived of your joke
Are you sure? I assumed that the joke was that he was posting the ad on Slashdot because he didn't like Craigslist because anyone can post anything there (unlike Slashdot, where anyone can also post anything there too).
But then I guess it's not funny if you have to explain it.
This got me wondering how much damage a cell phone can actually take.
One of my previous phones was working just fine one minute, and then the next minute it wasn't, and it never worked again. Based on the overwhelming weight of that single anecdote I would have to say that 'none it all' is how much damange a cell phone can actually take and still continue working.
(by a strange coincidence, 'none at all' is exactly how much of a scientific conclusion you can draw from this :)
No, the logic belongs to the app. The database is there to store data, how we are going to use it is app-dependent.
Be careful with generalizations. It's a matter of requirements not some universal law.
If it makes sense to put it in the app and you don't particularly care about performance or security (because you trust your users) then put it in the app. I would have a problem with letting an untrusted user execute direct queries against my database though - the app has to log in somehow to the database with a username and password, and it's never hard to extract the username and password, and so suddenly a malicious user has access to do pretty much anything they want. If the app can delete a single order then the user can delete all orders etc.
Some advantages of putting business logic in the database are:
1. code reuse - your windows app, linux app, web app, and mobile app can all re-use the same business logic and just have to focus on the presentation layer.
2. control - you get to control exactly what the app can do, audit it etc, because all access goes through your stored procedures
3. performance - as fast as your network is, you aren't going to beat having the code running in the database process itself
4. performance again - left to their own devices, users will construct horrible queries that will sap the very life out of your database. If they have to go through your stored procedures then they can't wreak as much havoc on your server.
But at the end of the day the requirements might be that only a few trusted users are going to use this app, all access is via the web, and they want it finished yesterday, and so suddenly none of the above advantages really matter so much...
Fsck swearing... I want to hear them go a whole month (or even an hour) without saying any word starting with the letter 's' or something creative like that. The person that breaks the rule the most gets to sit on one of those seats over a tub of water that you throw tennis balls at a target and if you hit it dumps them in. Or even better, a bucket of slime over everyone's head that gets poured on them whenever they say "I don't know".
How do you Rickroll this video?
By posting a link that actually points to a DNF demo?
Their job is to make sure the market is running effectively.
Nope. Last time I did any sort of legal studies at school, the role of the courts was to apply the law to the matter at hand. They can also interpret the law in cases of ambiguity (eg for situations that didn't exist when the law was created). It's certainly not their role to set policies for commerce though. If the law says one thing they they have to apply it whether they think its fair or not.
If something attracts as much attention as this then the government might start floating around policy changes to 'fix' the situation up, but that's not the role of the courts.
('fix' is in quotes because the cynic in me says that it will be 'fixed' according to whoever throws them enough money...)
This is how i spent my afternoons.
Gah. Here I am married with kids and holding a steady job. I've wasted my life!!!
Nice idea for smaller networks but I doubt having a seperate bucket for every IP scales very well.
Why not? A TBF is about the simplest shaping method you can do! It requires a few 32 bit counters per IP and a few calculations per packet. Do you have a per-IP shaping idea that scales better?
If you had enough IP addresses where it might be a problem then you are almost certainly using NAT too, which requires a much larger memory and processing footprint than TBF.
KRYTEN: Logically, sir, there is only one way you could have possibly have opened that door. I feel quite nauseous. Where is it?
LISTER: Where's what?
KRYTEN: Oh, sir!! You've got it in your jacket!!
LISTER: I got us out of the hold, didn't I?
KRYTEN: Sir, you are sick! You are a sick, sick person! How can you possibly even conceive of such an idea?
LISTER: Cheer up! Or I'll beat you to death with the wet end!
KRYTEN: Sir, if mechanoids could barf, I'd be onto my fifth bag by now. You're a sick person! Sick! Sick!
You
You misspelled "I"
misspelled
You misspelled "am a"
"collusion"
You misspelled "spelling/grammar nazi"
Other industries don't have the right to set up usage rules.
Sure they do. If you buy a tool for one purpose and you use it for another purpose and it breaks, they aren't required to honor any warranty claim. Nobody is forcing you to make a warranty claim though, just like nobody is forcing you to buy a secondhand game and play it online.
Why is software different?
Because it is different. The whole problem with software is that people think it's the same and try to apply the same rules to it. They try and make up car analogies that apply to it but they (mostly) just don't work. Software is just data and data is so much more easy to copy than anything 'physical'. It needs its own rules and unfortunately we are going to spend the foreseeable future arguing about what those rules are, and going round and round in circles.
Forcing the second purchaser to pay extra money to access what should come with the game AS ADVERTISED is fraud in the purest sense.
Yes. Certainly if you advertise your second hand game as fully featured with no extra expenses required to activate any of those features and it turns out to not be true, then you have indeed committed fraud.
No, the car cannot be copied, but your right of reselling he car could very well be restricted.
But they'd never do it, which was my point. If you make it harder for me to sell my 3 year old Citroen C4 (because you've reduced the value of it by making it a less attractive second hand car as further expense is required after purchase), then firstly I'm less likely to sell it and buy a new car, and secondly I'm more likely to buy another brand instead... one that better retains its resale value.
Software manufacturers are already screwing over legitimate purchasers to try and stop piracy, so screwing them over further by stopping them selling their games is only a small step for them (and a 'logical' step from their point of view, which is 'how can we screw over our customers more?' :). It's a big step for car manufacturers and is contrary to the way their business works.
It doesn't matter; software still is a product.
That wasn't the question in this particular branch of this thread. The question was if car manufacturers would start trying to make the software in their cars not work after a resale, and it's more about how the marketplace behaves, which in turn depends on if software is "the whole product" or "a small part of a product", rather than if the "doctrine of first sale" applies or not.
If I pirate the game and then pay Sony $20 does that make it legitimate?
Pre-owned.... pwned... I never made the connection until just now!
I can honestly see it happening.
Completely different market. With a computer game, the software is the product, it can be (illegally) copied very cheaply so the manufacturers need to find more creative ways to sustain their business models. With a car, the car is the product, and the software is just a component of it. And the car can't be copied cheaply so the existing business models work just fine.
That doesn't mean they won't try it of course... but unless there is collaboration across the whole car industry it won't fly.
I solved this problem at the local library's public access wireless with a linux router and a token bucket filter with a big bucket. Each IP address gets a 10MByte bucket that fills up at 256kbits/second. The bucket is big enough that they'll never know they are limited for normal browsing, but a torrent sucks it try really fast and drops down to a slow enough speed that it's not really worthwhile. And even if they do stick with it at least they aren't burning through tens of gigabytes per day. It beats any other filter i've ever tried.
I still fondly remember the howls of dismay from the leechers when I turned it... they just couldn't understand why their downloads start at 20mbits/second but slow down to a crawl almost straight away :)
My iPhone isn't a status symbol.
Mine isn't either. I had it gold plated purely for functional reasons.
Hire yourself out for parties. For $5/hour you could sit 10m away from the crowd and draw the mosquito's to you. You'd have your $50 in no time! You'd also have malaria, which is a bit of a downside.
Who modded this 'Troll'???
Unless the detector is sitting right in line with the laser (or mirror), in which case it would get fried, there is going to be a difference between the angle that the detector determines the target is at and the angle required to shoot at the target from a slightly different starting point. And to determine that angle you need to know how far away it is.
Mosquito's are really tiny... i'm actually amazed they can hit them at all!
It'd be nice if they could determine the distance and somehow manipulate the cycles of the laser to only burn at that specific distance
Two slightly lower powered lasers might be able to do this, powered such that two of them need to hit the target to impart enough energy to fry it. Spaced slightly apart on the device they could intersect at the precise point of the mosquito, creating a much smaller 'kill' area instead of a long beam. We're talking about a much more complicated device though.
(such as my balls)
Assuming they are in your pants, they are probably quite safe. It's your eyeballs you should be really worried about.
Seriously. They aren't even trying. This isn't even remotely in the same league as Xbox 360 hacks and the like, which have evolved to be quite a bit stealthier due to Microsoft's detection efforts.
So the choices are...
1. don't try, and people will copy your stuff
2. try, and people will defeat it and copy your stuff.
I wonder which of the above two options is cheaper?
It's not so much pro-piracy, as anti-the-things-that-would-be-required-to-prevent-piracy.
In order to make a song or movie uncopyable, you end up punishing the people who aren't breaking the law. It's been the same way with copy protection ever since it was invented - the pirates make a copy with the copy protection removed and distribute that, and the legitimate users have to put up with the inconvenience. The list is long...
When software was distributed on audio tape for home computers, copy protection often relied on making sure that an audio copy reduced the fidelity below what would work... so unless your tape player was in perfect condition you might have problems with the original too. You also couldn't make yourself a backup copy.
When software was distributed on floppy disk, they copy protection was often 'type in word 4 on page 7 of the manual' (also on tape software), a parallel port dongle (incompatible with some printers), etc. Also the disk format would be modified - deliberate errors or slightly different sector layout, again preventing you making backups. A few software packages actually wrote back to the disk once they had been installed and only returned the disk to its original state when you uninstalled.
When CD's came along it was more of the same, although worse than floppy disks because there were a bunch of CD drives that were incompatible with the copy protection.
It's all of that crap that most of the people who you say are 'pro-piracy' are against. Although there will always be people who just feel they are entitled to get stuff for free...
I would have modded you +1, but that "(Sigh)" really bugs me :p
btw, does a watermark count as making it an original work?