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Secret Service Runs At "Six Sixes" Availability
PCM2 writes "ABC News is reporting that the US Secret Service is in dire need of server upgrades. 'Currently, 42 mission-oriented applications run on a 1980s IBM mainframe with a 68 percent performance reliability rating,' says one leaked memo. That finding was the result of an NSA study commissioned by the Secret Service to evaluate the severity of their computer problems. Curiously, upgrades to the Service's computers are being championed by Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, who says he's had 'concern for a while' about the issue."
They should just flip the availability numbers over and get rid of the decimal. "Sir, its not 66.. its 99! You have it upside down!" -- Fixed.
So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
To windows, and get 73% uptime!
Or.. that other OS that you don't have to license per seat, and get in the solid 90+% uptime.
Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
... I have several old P4 1.6Ghz w/ 256MB RAM & 100Mhz FSB in a store room at a client site. They originally shipped with Win 98 but they've since been upgraded to XP. The Secret Service can have them fro free if they just come and pick them up. I would have put them on Craig's List but I don't trust a web site where they let just anybody post things.
Mainframes of yore had a hell of a lot of moving parts: a large system might have dozens of tape drives and disk drives. Tape drives in particular broke down all the time and were taken offline until the maintenance guy came for his weekly or monthly visit and tightened the belts or whatever the hell they did. Knuth remarked on that situation in his magnum opus TAOCP vol 3 on sorting and searching. In the part about sorting with tape drives, he remarked that he'd never seen a large computer installation where all the tape drives were working. You'd have a computer with ten tape drives, two of them would be down pending repairs, and you'd use the other eight. In other words your computer was operational but not FULLY operational.
There is a similar situation in today's data centers. Even at the wimpy little shop I worked in last year (about 2000 computers) some were always down. We were doing pretty good if the number down at any moment was less than a few dozen. I don't think we ever had a single day of being fully operational (every single computer up at the same time). That was fine, it wasn't a requirement, it was a distributed system and the data and functions were all sufficiently replicated that we kept running, by design, even with parts of the system unavailable.
The even more shocking reality is that there is no secret service IBM mainframe, only a non-working mock up on a sound stage. The actual performance reliability rating is 0%. And over the years a series of system administrators have been been hired only to die in mysterious bullet-related circumstances.
so underbid on the contract...
I mean why settle for five nines when you can have... NINE FIVES! :D
Wow, 6 sixes, that is like running at two satans... That's a lot
certainly, the moral thing when no taxpayer money needs to be spend is to take it anyway?
You can't handle the truth.
They'll probably contract it out to EDS and spend 3 billion dollars on Citrix licenses.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If this is this case, the good senator shall hereon be known as Joe Libermanbearpig, in honor of the late ManBearPig of Al Gore mythology.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
There's something about this whole thing that simply doesn't ring true. I believe parts, I believe they have a 1980's main frame, I believe it's not terribly reliable but something about the whole: leaked memo according to Joe Leiberman, we need more money, they won't give us more money' spiel sounds off. I suspect they have huge chunks of computing that's much newer and reliable, I'd be shocked if that IBM serves any significant purpose.
If nothing else I predict a large percentage of the umpteen million dollar final cost somehow going to Connecticut, but I'm probably just incredibly jaded.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one small consumer grade server have the same power? Isn't this an easy fix?
1980's mainframes did not use reel-to-reel tape. They used tape cartridges, often managed by automatic tape libraries.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
i was talking about minimizing the money taken after corruption has already decided it wants a specific task accomplished that someone will certainly be paid money that doesn't need to be spent to give them.
i suppose you believe the moral thing to do in that case is overthrow the government?
The story uses a stock photo captioned "Obsolete mainframe super computers in [Computer History] museum". I don't think the Secret Service uses IBM 2401 magnetic tape units
So by your logic, someone should take much less money and then do what? If the contract is for 100,000,000 for example, you underbid and take 50,000,000 and if that's definitely not enough, then what?
i suppose you believe the moral thing to do in that case is overthrow the government?
- oh, the government that US has right now is a failed institution. Should it be overthrown? Definitely. By voting. However if the people just keep voting in the same people, well, they deserve it then, don't they?
Lucky for me I am not a US citizen and I never lived there, so it's really a question that US citizens should ask themselves.
You can't handle the truth.
Nine fives? I think they just work nine TO five!
We'll never get tired of voting you down. Right now I'm waiting for your next post so I can knock it down too. Batter up!
what more is there to be said aboutit?
At last a computer that can be safe even in a cyberwar, no modern hacker would be able to enter there, or at least, do anything dangerous. Even the Morris worm would scream and run facing that technology. Leave that multivac running enough time and will eventually make light.
UNDERbid. ZERO is under ANY bid. do it for free. is that moral? do they do things for free to help the common good in your country?
what if the voting system itself is just as failed as the institution that implemented it?
lucky for us US citizens that you are safely on some other soil.
Oh sorry, you mean Secret Service. I keep thinking Schutzstaffel.
Curiously, upgrades to the Service's computers are being championed by Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut
Its not curious. Don't confuse his desire to censor, restrict, or otherwise hinder the people's access to free information(the internet).
Doesn't mean he won't allow every resource into that same tech if security/administration needs it...especially if it achieves the former.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Underbid someone at 0 dollars for a contract and deliver what with that 0?
Lucky for US I am not it's citizen? As far as I am concerned - lucky for me.
what if the voting system itself is just as failed as the institution that implemented it?
- voting system will remain a failure as long as the people who vote do not care about understanding what they vote on. A system that implements voting in the first place is better than a system that has no voting at all, so there must have been something there in the beginning, but obviously over time money became the deciding factor for winning almost any vote, that's the failure.
You can't handle the truth.
If nothing else I predict a large percentage of the umpteen million dollar final cost somehow going to Connecticut, but I'm probably just incredibly jaded.
What's a few million? Connecticut is one of the top haulers, thanks to Electric Boat, where many nuclear subs (and a number of other ships) are made.
Every time the Pentagon tries to cut its budget, congrescritters get all up in arms about "jobs", so the Pentagon has all these useless projects (congress forces the programs it wants.) It's the primary reason US military spending has risen so sharply over the years.
Please help metamoderate.
That's better than our goal of Nine 5's...up a little over half the time!
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
but obviously over time money became the deciding factor for winning almost any vote, that's the failure.
are you sure it's never the rigged/hackable/unverifiable voting machines? or are you implying they only exist because money became available to mandate them?
Sounds like they could have my spare dual core desktop and it would be an improvement.
If you are only getting 90% from any OS you really should be shopping for a new OS. I've got flaky machines in my garage running Linux that regularly are up for 6 months or more at a time, and that includes dodgy power in my area.
That is silly, it would quickly discover the only way to win is not to play.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
They're claiming it will cost $187 million to replace. Bullshit. If the hardware is more than 15 years old, which it sounds like it is, it's impossible to conceive how they could spend more than $100k on hardware to replace it and still give 100x the performance and capacity. OK, let's splurge - spend 5 million on hardware.
These jackoffs would have us believe it's going to cost $180 million to replace some bullshit law enforcement database software that's 20 years old? Complete bullshit. Instead of the mythical $500 government hammer, now we've got the $180 million dollar software package that should cost
Doesn't this constitute a sampling bias? (from netcraft)
Why do you not report uptimes for Linux 2.6 or FreeBSD 6 ?
We only report uptimes for systems where the operating system's timer runs at 100Hz or less. Because the TCP code only uses the low 32 bits of the timer, if the timer runs at say 1000Hz, the value wraps around every 49.7 days (whereas at 100Hz it wraps after 497 days). As there are large numbers of systems which have a higher uptime than this, it is not possible to report accurate uptimes for these systems.
The Linux kernel switched to a higher internal timer rate at kernel version 2.5.26. Linux 2.4 used a rate of 100Hz. Linux 2.6 used a timer at 1000Hz (some architectures were using 1000Hz before this), until the default was changed back to 250Hz in May 2006. (An explanation of the HZ setting in Linux.)
FreeBSD versions 4 and 5 used a 100Hz timer, but FreeBSD 6 has moved to a customisable timer with a default setting of 1000Hz.
So unfortunately this means that we cannot give reliable uptime figures for many Linux and FreeBSD servers.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Mrs Palin, don't you have more important things to do than troll blogs?
Oh, I forgot. You don't, do you?
P.R.
The media uses stock photos whenever they don't have real photos of something. This is normal. I've even seen stock photos of Bumble Bee tuna used in contamination stories for another brand. (I forget which one.) Talk about misleading...
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
Never ascribe to malice or incompetence what can be explained by incompetent malice. I'm proud of myself, that sounded witty, but honestly I'd guess the original system "just worked" and slowly the needs outgrew it so that fewer people could use it at any given time than would like to use it. So slowly that the people who would have to explain the purchase could say "but its not that much worse than last year" instead of filling out enough forms to account for the mass of a sequoia, in order to do the requisition.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
"Curiously, upgrades to the Service's computers are being championed by Senator Joe Lieberman of Connecticut "
What's curious about that? It's not like the guy is a Luddite or something. The Secret Service, at the forefront of protecting POTUS, is a national security issue, and Lieberman is very involved in those issues. If the author threw that in because he doesn't like Lieberman's politics, then that's kind of lame. One would think that issues like keeping government IT systems up to date would transcend party politics.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Availability often comes at the cost of reliability.
If you put 2 drives in a RAID-1 mirror, the odds of a drive failure goes up. After all, you now have twice as many drives that might fail. However, a single drive failure no longer makes the data unavailable.
RAID-1 lowers reliability with the goal of raising availability. Paying sysadmins to swap drives is way cheaper than paying people to sit around waiting for their critical data to be restored from tape.
Low reliability is probably just a sign that their systems are highly redundant. Not really surprising.
These stories tend to be B.S. ploys in order to get pity funding from Congress for some modernization effort or some other project. The agency I used to work at had similar things said about it, and I can guarantee they were inaccurate, but that funding was received.
Mainframe support costs are generally ratcheted up as IBM pushes you towards mandatory upgrades. I can only imagine how expensive it is for support on a "1980s era mainframe" with parts that you just can't get anymore.
The article is bogus, but the problem is real. Computer support systems for investigators are hard to build. The FBI has struggled with this, taking about a decade to deploy their "Field Office Automation" system. They're hard for many of the same reasons medical systems are hard - much of the incoming data is unstructured, and many people enter data relevant to the same case. It's even harder than in the medical world, because links between various individuals and events are important, but unreliable. The "customers" aren't cooperative, they usually don't have unique identifiers, and a sizable fraction of the information is bogus. The security problems are tough to even define - exactly who's allowed to see what is a big issue.
The older law enforcement systems didn't offer much searchability. Unless you had a hard search key, like a driver's license number or a full name, you couldn't retrieve much. Now, everybody expects Google-like searchability, and the older systems just didn't have the machinery for that.
Lamest comeback ever.
"der.... Sarah Palin.... der...."
STFU, mmkay?
Offtopic my ass. Pure troll. Disagree with Obama all you want (I do plenty), but only a total ignorant assfuck would believe he is anything like Hitler. In fact, I would say anyone who posts such bullshit is more like Hitler than Obama is. You, sir, are as stupid as Obama's health care plan.
Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
Aww did some body make fun of your wank material?
The IT systems lack appropriate bandwidth to run multiple applications to effectively support USSS offices and operational missions around the world
For a moment I thought it said USSR, and I nodded.
Funny how the brain works, isn't it?
Somehow I feel let down. What happened to the classic IBM sales organization that used Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt to coerce their clients into endless expansion and upgrades, needed or not? To make matters worse, it's a Federal system! When other vendors used to bid against IBM for a US government contract, everyone else always started in last place. When other vendors won it seemed like a mistake.
If IBM can't suck endless amounts of money out of the US government then there is something seriously wrong with America. We've lost our competitive spirit. How the mighty have fallen.
Why is Snark Required?
it has nothing to do with voting machines, it has everything to do with the corporations giving money to candidates from either political party, who are then given to you to vote for. Doesn't matter who you vote in, almost any politician from any side (R/D) is already a tool of the corporations.
The only right way to go is to vote for the non-establishment people, those who are not yet real politicians, those who have not being bought yet. You have some people like that on both sides: Ron Paul and Alan Grayson come to mind first.
You can't handle the truth.
Oynk, oynk. Joe Lieberman - the corporatist. Is his wife getting any money from insurance industry? Is he getting money from insurance industry? Yes they do, but obviously that became not enough. Now he also wants to force the secret service to build some ridiculous and most likely not needed IT systems in his state, I am sure, that is the only real reason for any of US politicians to come out with statements like that: we want pork.
Certainly he will pillage the system some more and then again before he goes away.
Democrats, Republicans, they are bought long time ago by the corporations. Get rid of them, vote for someone who is not with the establishment, someone who is not bought by the corporations yet.
You can't handle the truth.
They should make an effort to get at least NINE sixes. Or more.
Layoff your data center and software staff. Cancel the contractors & consultants. Get rid of the hardware. Setup a remote data center in India or China. Hire a couple thousand locals to rewrite the legacy apps. You'll be fine.
Security problem? Loss of jobs?!? In your mind senator.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
There's only 4,400 agents, buying them all a $1,000 pc each is only $4.4 million. There's about 100 offices, an incredibly decent server for each of them would be about 100k each ($10 mill). So where does the $187 mill come in? And where do I bid for the contract?
Now I know how companies like EDS take truckloads of cash home...
I can see an upgrade to WFW3.11 in their future just as soon as we can locate some 80286 machines.
Obama = Hitler (as if you need more proof)
Obama - breathes oxygen
Hitler - breathed oxygen
Obama - was born on Earth
Hitler - was born on Earth
Obama - will die on Earth
Hitler - died on Earth
Obama - drinks water
Hitler - drank water
Obama - has an 'a' in his first name
Hitler - had an 'a' in his first name
Obama - blood is red
Hitler - blood was red
And you know people will try to spin it that all of the above could be said of a large number of people or that we're twisting our facts to suit a point we want to make.....
There is no -1 disagree
Why was this modded troll? Honestly, I don't get what's the least bit trollish about it.
That had 99.9999% uptime. I will do the upgrade for them for just 100 million dollars.
I call bullshit. I maintained large IBM sites for 20 years. I never had 20 percent of my drives down at any time (2401, 2420, 3420, 3480). If you are seeing that sort of service level, change service providers.
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:32(King James Version)
let's say a corporation who you are claiming is already willing to use it's assets to gain control of government, also has the ability to control the voting machines... you think that throughout history a corporation in that position has never exploited that ability? you think one never will?
once the pork contract is defined, underbidding the contractor who the pork was seemingly prepared for, or offering your services for free, is the ONLY short term thing you can do to decrease the affect of the corruption. you can vote for 1000 years and change nothing. you are delusional.
First, you brought up the voting machines and you continue with that theme, I don't know why.
Second, there is a way to stop pork spending and corruption in a very short time, don't need 1000 years, vote out the establishment people and vote in totally new people, who are not corrupted by the system.
You can't handle the truth.
WTF does "six sixes" mean? Is that anything like "six sigma"?
i brought it up because you suggested voting solves all corruption problems. my point was that that doesn't work IF the voting process is also corrupt. i "continue with that theme" because you continue with the theme of your fairy tale land where that would never exist. you don't know why because you are oblivious. SECOND, there is a way to stop pork spending as i pointed out.... UNDERBID THE CONTRACT AND DO THE WORK FOR FREE. of course these are extremes, but so are your sensationalist claims. if pork spending and corruption can be stopped in a very short time as you suggest, then why hasn't it been stopped?
Ok, so if your voting process is corrupt to the point that your voting machines record non-existing votes and skip real ones, you have different issues. This may just mean that your government stopped being representative of your people so much, it makes no sense bothering with the voting and then it does warrant violent removal.
However I don't think in the case of US it is that terrible, yes stories come up one after another about all of the voting problems, but you also have people from various parties as well as independents checking that voting is not rigged but more promising is the mere fact that this information comes out, there is a way to do verification if you stopped using the faulty machines. So is it so difficult to use pen and paper that it would take a 1000 years as you suggested? Many other countries do it that way, you know.
Underbidding a contract and working for free is not the only way, also it is impossible. One thing is your own time, another altogether the fact that you'd have to produce some results in a reasonable amount of time - can you buy equipment and hire people to do the work for free for you? Besides, if you know that this work is useless in the first place, that would be a gigantic waste of time.
More productive way is to expose the people in the system for who they are - corrupt corporation whores and in no way your representatives. A more productive way is to form opposition to the establishment and fight it politically by attempting to get elected without being corrupt, at least in this case you would not occupy yourself with a pointless and impossible task, while maybe actually achieving something. You are oblivious to the reality and history - this has been done many times before, it definitely makes more sense that what you are proposing.
Your last argument: 'if pork spending and corruption can be stopped in a very short time as you suggest, then why hasn't it been stopped?' - this is a good question, but it is not a negation of what I am saying. Pork spending is not stopped because so many people in power push for it, because it is profitable to them so much. I answer this in exactly the same manner: the people in the US are voting for the establishment and not paying attention.
I do however think, that latest losses of elections by Democrats to republicans are a display of people tired of the same game. People stop coming out to vote for their Democrat candidate because specifically they don't like that after the promise of change it's business as usual. I don't believe that people vote for Republicans more (and my assertion is supported by many polls) so people are becoming very disappointed with who they chose. In this political environment it maybe is becoming a real possibility for someone who is not with the establishment to be elected because they are not with the establishment and they push that button, even though they will not have the kind of money that gets one elected, because they will not have any corporate sponsors at all.
There is another possibility, which is much faster than waiting 1000 years: reform the process of getting elected, so that the people, who have enough votes will not be allowed to take corporate money and will be provided some campaign money from the government. Millions of dollars spent on campaigns - that's a huge issue, remove this problem and you are on the way to a solution.
You can't handle the truth.
Ok, so if your voting process is corrupt to the point that your voting machines record non-existing votes and skip real ones, you have different issues.
... DING DING DING. didn't read past that. congratulations on realizing your lapse of logic. it looks like you spent some time sorting out that new realization and perhaps trying to justify it.
I am not justifying it, I am saying you are mistaken that this is the case in the first place and also that there are ways of fixing the problem without getting into a civil war of some sort as you seem to propose. Cheers anyway, I wish your country the best.
You can't handle the truth.
you are ATTEMPTING to justify it... i agree that you are failing.
Incorrect, I am saying your statement is not the case, of-course at first it seemed that you were failing in reading comprehension, now I think it is simply a case of trolling.
You can't handle the truth.
so simple that it took you 10 responses to figure it out? either you are wrong or slow... judging by you earlier being wrong, i would first assume are you wrong this time as well... of course you were moderated "flamebait" implying someone thought your motives were in question from the start. i agreed and provided you with a short term solution. you deny the solution, provide an alternate less effective solution that you acknowledge will not remove the problem, yet you continue to argue about the existence of the problem. that is why your comments are flamebait...
It's about the money.
it's about politics. it's about fighting the slippery slope of unemployment. it's about progress.
perhaps in your next opinion piece you should try avoiding using the word "believe" and "bet" and make up some facts instead.
it also doesn't help to prove yourself wrong by painting the picture of a world where joe lieberman is alive (the actual real world) and then suggest that it is impossible to even imagine that this world exists.
you are the worst kind of stupid.
You provide no solution, your solution is useless, it can never work for a large project where many people need to be involved and infrastructure has to be provided, and it is a waste of time simply by the virtue of the project being government issued make shift pork generator.
My solution is real - get rid of the people who are with the establishment and more importantly reform the process not to allow the corporations to take over again by infusing their own resources into the voting process. That in your opinion is less effective than people undercutting a seasoned politician with some corporations behind them who want the contract in their home state? Your 'solution' is amazing in its ineffectiveness at every level - from trying to actually move the project away from the senator who introduces the idea, to the attempt of creating a large solution by yourself. Given one would want to stop all pork spending, what are the chances of succeeding by doing this? They are less than 0. You are trying to support your points with ad-hominem, non-sequitirs, begging questions, etc. Certainly you display all attributes of a troll.
Why am I voted 'Flamebait'? That's simple - supposedly Lieberman is a Democrat, but it is really irrelevant, the relevant part is that he is simply a corporatist, but on this site many people are 'progressive' technocrats and they don't understand subtlety of this, so they go with the obvious: someone is attacking a supposed 'Democrat' and they react.
You can't handle the truth.
very odd to ask why you are flamebait AFTER i point out that someone else thought you were, and also why i thought you were... WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT? you are being hypocritical, uninformed, and projecting a sense of demand. that combination serves to bait those who would complain about how flawed your argument is based on the fact that it is self contradicting.
the only way your solution is real is that it really is useless... you said so yourself... you're not getting rid of corruption... you're just pruning it on a schedule allowing it to dig it's roots deeper and deeper. the solution is figurative weed killer. cut off the problems source of nourishment.
what do you do for a living?
my solution isn't useless... it COMPELTELY solves the problem. if you don't have enough resources to implement the solution then don't complain about your lack of ability....
- your 'solution' is completely useless because it is not practical in any way shape or form, your argument is similar to this: to solve all our energy problems all we have to do is invent a perpetuum mobile (perpetual motion machine, and never mind the thermodynamics, so if you do not have enough 'resources' to implement this amazing solution then don't complain about your lack of ability.
very odd to ask why you are flamebait AFTER i point out that someone else thought you were, and also why i thought you were...
- now I wonder, which one of us speaks English as the second language? (Fourth actually?) If you think that was a question directed to you, and right after it the answer is provided (as with many rhetorical questions, which it also was) then I have to wonder about your ability to shape and order your own thoughts.
The correct solution is to remove the source of the problem, not to fight the symptoms. Unfortunately that is not what people understand, fighting symptoms is more direct but it does not remove the problem.
Pork spending is only but a small part of the entire problem and people like Lieberman need to be fought on a completely different level, they need to be removed from the office. Their entire agenda is suspect, they cannot be trusted because of their complete lack of interest in anything but the corporate agenda, which is really their own agenda since it makes them the most money. Every single thing Lieberman or someone like him does is done for their direct or implied profit. My solution covers all aspects of this problem, you propose to fight a symptom in a absolutely impossible manner and you are adamant that it is a practical solution, it is amazing.
What I do for a living also has nothing to do with any of this or are you looking for more vectors for personal attacks? You can figure out what I do for a living easily, if you don't see it, well, I already said that your solutions are not practical, maybe it is just a reflection of the rest of your persona.
How long are you planning to continue with this particular thread anyway? It is not really a very practical exercise, don't you see? I don't think you are interested in learning anything and from my perspective this thread became redundant a while ago.
You can't handle the truth.
so you are saying logical fact is irrelevant because it isn't practical, yet you claim your practical solution is relevant even though it's logically false as the problem remains. the problem with corruption isn't in the individuals serving in office... it's in the corporate/political party alliances... there is no term limits on ideological platforms based on stopping people from doing things.
as I said, reform the process of how the politicians communicate with corporations, outlaw corporate donations, provide people, who collected enough signatures with some funding so they don't have to market themselves to the lobbyists and the corporations, but only have to concentrate on their work. This is a huge problem - corporate money going for or against a politician and it is legal in your country. Everything else is noise.
You can't handle the truth.
Bill Halter - lieutenant governor of Arkansas has declared he is going to be running against Blanche Lincoln, who is a Democrat but she has done everything to represent corporate interests.
Obama is going to defend Blanche Lincoln, because he also is a corporatist who does not want any reform.
Blanche Lincoln is a corporatist, who took corporate money and for example voted against the public option in your country.
Bill Halter is not of-course a non-politician, he will not come and change everything, he'll become corrupt in a couple of years, but that's because everyone else in Washington is corrupt. That's why every corporatist whore needs to be voted out and replaced with new people, this way with all new people, it should be really possible to run reforms to fix the problems.
Peter Schiff is running in Connecticut where Chris Dodd, the 'Democrat' and really a corporatist used to be a senator. Of-course Dodd just quit being senator to become a lobbyist, so he'll cash in on his implied bribes from the corporations he represented. Schiff is a libertarian, never mind he runs as a Republican, his father is imprisoned for working against IRS and showing people how not to pay taxes.
Scott Brown won in a Democratic state, an amazing NOBODY that he is, but look, he just voted against Republicans for the 'jobs bill' (not that I agree with make shift government projects, but...)
Yes, it is possible to change the establishment by removing the corporatists and it does not take 1000 years and inventing a perpetual motion machine.
You can't handle the truth.
you are the worst kind of stupid.
then i'm assuming that all other corruption has stopped and these new politicians are somehow guaranteed to never do anything unethical in the future.... oh, they aren't?
is that your definition of fixed?
you start with a 'genius' and end with the 'stupid'. I guess that's the crux of the problem, I am looking at the issues, you are looking for something else altogether, I call it trolling.
People put Lieberman to power as much as corporate cash put him to power, let's see how this plays out next time in his state. 'People' will not get any benefit from him in his state, now corporations will, 'people' will see it this time.
You can't handle the truth.
'The fed' is a corporate whore as a whole as much as most of its parts. The rest of your post is nonsense and non-sequitur since it never follows the premises, which are wrong in themselves.
As I said, new politicians have about 2 years to be corrupted by the system, so the system needs a more swift kick to be updated with a reform of election financing and voting out the establishment. It has started now and will not take 1000 years. AFAIC the US financially is destroyed and is in motion only by the force of inertia. The US dollar will collapse due to imbalance of trade and an enormous debt, and the situation will be triggered by a failure on some of the derivatives traded in the financial market. What happened in 2009 will happen again but on a more total scale. After that there could be a war and a clean slate supposedly, but I don't read the future, I just see similarities to the histories of the past. You will have your reforms and changes one way or another. It would be better for you to have it done by voting.
You can't handle the truth.
imagine a dam full of holes... you are suggesting using a substance to plug the holes that decays. you don't assume the holes will only get worse as the demands on the dam increase? you can plug the spending forever by not letting it happen.
i meant genius sarcastically of course... i was going to spell it genious to imply that, but i thought you might be so stupid you'd point it out yourself and waste more of my time. you being stupid certainly is the crux of the problem, genious.
The rest of your post is nonsense and non-sequitur since it never follows the premises, which are wrong in themselves.
DURRRR. that's the point, genious. if they are wrong, you are wrong.
It would be better for you to have it done by voting
so where does complaining about spending on the internet fall into that? if the money is worthless, the spending is irrelevant. the inertia you claim exists is the same pressure i illustrated with a dam full of holes.
your point seems to be that the dam is sure to break, so there is no point trying to fix it, but we should still buy more and more paste to stick in the holes for a little while. then if someone points out how silly it is, rhetorically state the above as if it justifys everything.
the pure definition of flamebait...
so the real issue is you.
If your premises are wrong I am wrong? I see, I hope your work is not in software development, your logic is not, what I'd call 'impeccable'.
You can't handle the truth.
if you can't see the fault in pointlessly complaining, then i assume your work does not involve thinking of any kind.
if the money is worthless, the spending is irrelevant.
- this does not follow from anything, money is becoming worthless by government printing it, by not having trade balanced. However the money is not worthless as long as you can buy food / energy / shelter with them and as long as you are willing to work for it. The worthlessness of the money will come later, when the rest of the world will stop providing US with more debt by buying treasuries and when they call on the debt.
your point seems to be that the dam is sure to break, so there is no point trying to fix it, but we should still buy more and more paste to stick in the holes for a little while. then if someone points out how silly it is, rhetorically state the above as if it justifys everything.
- financially the dam is braking, politically you can do something about it to mitigate the consequences now, rather than witnessing a collapse of yet another country, besides which citizen of the US is willing to do nothing at all and go through the collapse without even trying? Maybe you are, are you really a good representative of the population though? I think it is unlikely.
the pure definition of flamebait...
- when I see someone stating that something is a 'pure definitions', I know I am dealing with either an idiot or a religious fanatic (very close things in my book) - now you see, that was a flamebait. What I said about Lieberman is not, it is my opinion, which you may disagree with and you may hate, but it was never a flamebait.
You can't handle the truth.
please state all of the premises you are referencing and i will provide you with a circuit diagram showing your faults. my "logic" exists. yours doesn't.
you are completely and totally wrong.
since you were the first one to complain about my logic, my intellect etc., I suggest you do this yourself, so that I can summarily dismiss all of your claims in about half a sentence. Good luck with all of that.
You can't handle the truth.
'completely' and 'totally' - excellent trolling and a double proof of the comment to which you are directing your response.
You can't handle the truth.
What I said about Lieberman is not, it is my opinion, which you may disagree with and you may hate, but it was never a flamebait.
you think that something that exists in front of your eyes is unimaginable... perhaps you don't know what it means to be able to imagine something. if not, you were instigating argument... so again, you are pointing out exactly why you are wrong seemingly to prove why you think you aren't wrong. you are stupid.
you were not happy with that as you just like to complain. you are stupid.
you think that something that exists in front of your eyes is unimaginable... perhaps you don't know what it means to be able to imagine something. if not, you were instigating argument... so again, you are pointing out exactly why you are wrong seemingly to prove why you think you aren't wrong. you are stupid.
- every conversation is about instigating an argument, otherwise what is the point of a conversation? But that is a rhetorical question, and as we have demonstrated an a few occasions here, you do not posses the intelligence to parse out such complexities of the language, which is ironic, supposedly you are the one with the native grasp of this tongue in this dialog. However it has long ceased being a dialog and most likely it never were, it is simply a diatribe.
You can't handle the truth.
well... you don't seem to understand when things are completely true, so i'm condescending to you by offering double truths. you are still oblivious. you are stupid.
genious.
Now I think I maybe talking to an automaton, who is running in an infinite loop. 'Stupid' - is that the best they programmed you with? You are a broken machine, a faulty computer, an incorrect algorithm and it is sad.
You can't handle the truth.
FLAMEBAIT
also, "maybe""may be""might be".
stupid.
Now you are talking to yourself. Not only you are a broken computer program, you are also a schizophrenic.
You can't handle the truth.
"maybe" != "may be" != "might be"
genious.
you have never been correct ever in your life.
I am now witnessing a degradation, whether I am talking to a computer program or a human, in either case, the observation is that this entity has descended into the lowest state of getting ready to throw feces at the opponent. This is the de-evolution, degradation, supposedly a higher entity moving down to reflect the lowest standard of communication. You are now something of a monkey.
You don't like my English?
, .
Peut-etre tu preferais parler au tongue royal, je ne pense pas que tu are prete pour ce, parce que tu est un tete de noeud, salope.
You can't handle the truth.
Too bad some languages are UTF-8 and not accepted by the silly /. filter. Oh well, the entities still say it all:
paste the entity text into the second box and click 'verify', that'll spit out the sentiment exactly.
You can't handle the truth.
you are stupid.
talking to yourself in multiple languages not supported by the medium you are using to do it....i don't think that even has a name is psychiatry books yet...
what is the point of a conversation without instigating an argument?
you are stupid.