Why not just have a increased rate for Saturday delivery like Fedex and UPS? I don't see a reason for something to run on a loss. If Amazon's customers appreciate or expect it, either they or Amazon can pay extra for it.
I guess someone has an axe to grind against Android (hint, hint) just because there were stories earlier about the iPhone revealing the exact location of the users to applications and ads.
Someone is going to post some long justification about exploits in the wild and some blah blah about monopoly. Whereas when it's about MS it's 'M$ can't code'. Apple gets a free pass on everything, including DRM in the iPhone and Trusted Computing.
Apple seems to have a particularly strong fanbase even amongst geeks which can't take valid criticism and does not hesitate to use their mod points for days after a story to stamp out any posts that can be construed as negative towards Apple.
Not against bugs in Safari, for sure. And some exploits are local ones.. like connecting a locked iPhone to a computer and reading all the personal data from there.
You're misunderstanding. My parent poster claimed that locking down the iOS 4 is justified because the iPhone just a cellphone and they were historically closed.
I posted a reply stating that the iOS doesn't just run on iPhone but the iPad also. The implication was that his justification does not extend to the iPad or the iPod touch.
You come along and claim the iPad is a phone. It can be used to make calls just like any PC can with Skype and a Internet connection.
But you miss the point of the original poster and you seem to imply that since the iPad can be used as a phone, it okay to lock it down.
Just because your big screen TV can be used as large paperweight doesn't mean it's a paperweight.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Use your cash to build the next iPhone killer rather than whining that the current iPhone isn't everything you want. Pretty simple.
Build your own Slashdot if you don't like my 'whining'. And ban me from it.;)
Pretty simple.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
The issue is not that the terms are necessarily bad. But there might be stores that offer 80%-20%. Or even 71%. Or treat the developers with respect. But Apple wants to be the ONLY store. There lies the issue.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
But if you're Adobe, you can sell Photoshop to BestBuy and Fry's customers at Walmart, or Target or on the Internet. There is no one choking the distribution system or monopolizing it like Apple is.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Err, the example of game consoles is being given as a comparison to justify the locking down of the iDevices. Lots of people play games on PCs as well, that doesn't mean locking down PCs can be justified.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Are PS3s replacing or being predicted to replace laptops or desktops?
Stockholm syndrom is not a disease, just a phenomenon that can happen to anyone. Anyway, my apologies for that, I take it back.
Coming back on topic:
Freedom is not free. Just because some people cannot keep their systems clean doesn't mean that everyone should be locked out from installing what they want on their own device.
As Mark Twain said:
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.
As much as I try, friend, I cannot seem to feel this "freedom being lost", because I cannot make my ipad play WebM. I cannot make it play blu-ray disks either, which also seems to affect my feeling of "freedom" in no way whatsoever.
Not being able to play BluRay is a physical restriction whereas WebM is an artificial one imposed by Apple. And just because you don't feel the loss of freedom doesn't mean others don't or that it's a good thing.
Because I didn't get it to make people feel bad, friend. I got it because I really, really like them.
I call BS on that. If that was the case you wouldn't have insulted your parent poster by saying: "you probably just have sour grapes because you can't afford one on a dell helpdesk salary."
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Look, here's the deal: if Apple wants to control the platform and the approve all the apps, and use nebulous/arbitrary criteria to reject apps for any length of time even against the express wishes of its users, then they open themselves up to being accused of being fascist control freaks worse than Microsoft. THEY open THEMSELVES up to that accusation, for it otherwise would hold no water. Got it?
Best Buy is such a fascist organization. I went there the other day and insisted that the store manager place my software on their shelf, and he said no! And he didn't even quote me a section from the Best Buy Corporate Handbook! I call for a full boycott of Best Buy.
But if you buy a PC from BestBuy, you can buy Adobe Photoshop for it from Fry's without paying 30% of the price to BestBuy and it's approval.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
None of what you said requires the draconian lockdown. Just hide a button deep down in the menus somewhere to enable apps to be installed bypassing the app store. The App store can still be in place and the benefits you list will still be there.
But nah, Apple wants the forced 30% cut and the control so they won't. And they still will have lots of otherwise smart people defending it's every move.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
So, according to the OP's logic, the justification for the iOS 4 being locked down on the iPad and iPod Touch is that it also runs on a cell phone? Are you serious?
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
The OP said:
And the other 80% of the cellphone market that uses subscription crapware I can only get through the telco is different how?
How does the 'other 80% of the cellphone market' equate only dumbphones? Anyway, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, and Android were around even before the Holy Phone debuted and still had none of the nonsense restrictions that Apple is imposing.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
It's like bitching that your brand new shiny sports car doesn't have leather seats and they won't let you put in aftermarket leather seats without voiding the warranty while conveniently forgetting that you were driving a rusty pinto before.
It's more like you can't install a GPS device in a car without forking over 30% of the price to the car manufacturer, that too only if they approve it. And the 'rusty pinto' comment makes it sound like we should be forever be beholden to Apple for gracing us with shiny iDevices and not speak out against their deficiences and desire for control.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
And everyone else was a HELL of a lot worse before they came along and I'm sure you weren't wrapping yourselves in the "freedom" flag back then.
Huh, which smartphone vendor was a lot worse before they came along? Windows Mobile was always open, Blackberry was open and Android was FOSS.
The reason is some people just blindly hate Apple and this is their avenue to scream.
Looks like some people just blindly loooove Apple and can't digest ANY criticism.
Apple doesn't, in any actual fact, dominate how I use my iPhone, you know.
Can you play files encoded with WebM on your phone? No, because Jobs doesn't want you to. Can you run the native version of Google Voice? Nah. REJECTED.
Just because you are in denial of the control that Apple has on the iPhone doesn't mean that there is no control or domination. It's probably more akin to some kind of Stockholm syndrome.
End-users on the iPhone/iPad are much more comfortable than PC users in making use of a diverse array of applications. Yes, these apps are all approved by Apple, but I personally believe that part of the reason users are comfortable with the App Store is the simple fact that downloading apps will not, generally speaking, trash their device, take it over, or do something unexpected. Compare this to the open PC where you have huge amounts of malware and where even legitimate applications act in anti-user ways (like Sun's JVM which tries to install the Yahoo! toolbar). No surprise that other mobile platforms have introduced app stores of their own.
Err, no one is asking to abolish the App store. Just that there is a button somewhere deep down hidden which can activate software installs bypassing the App store. You can still have all the benefits you listed in this scenario.
In this environment claiming that Apple "dominates" usage of iOS or that the experience simply "sucks" doesn't seem that sophisticated to me.
Positing that Apple doesn't absolutely dominate the iOS by arbitrarily and capriciously rejecting and approving Apps for no discernible reasons is far from sophisticated.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Its tired. No one can be even vaguely positive towards anything Apple does without being dismissed as a "fanboy" -- even if you criticize something Apple does a breath after you praise another thing they've done. Hell, you can be only moderately-pro-Apple and then luxuriate praise on something Android does and yet if you point out even one flaw or weakness -- even if its purely objective -- and your entire point of view is immediately dismissed as a "fanboy". T
It goes both ways, say something remotely negative about Apple and you're labeled an Apple hater and the 'Overrated' mods come on and on for days out of woodwork.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
I personally like apple screening all of the crap out
You mean crap like all those iFart apps?
Sure there are some potentially good stuff they have not allowed but I dont miss it.
Err, how do you know you don't miss it when you don't know what they are or could be?
Every kind of app I have wanted has been there in some form. When you need a phone to constantly function as a phone and be secure a more closed model where you cant install any old crap off of the internet seems to be the better way to go
Some people wanted to run Google Voice as an app, but were denied because Apple didn't want them to do so.
If you choose to live in apple's walled garden, life is great. You have stability performance and usefulness. Once you experience this all come together everything else seems inferior.
If Apple were to relax the DRM on the iDevices, people like you can still use Apple's app store only if you wanted. No one would force you to download apps from Google or whatever.
Re:Oh good! The trolls are out in full force!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 3, Insightful
they are computers with massively reduced user freedom
I think it's an appliance in the same way that my PS3 is an appliance. There is a computer under the covers and the device is quite general purpose, but in the end its an appliance because I don't have the freedom to tinker.
I think "computer with massively reduced user freedom" could be part of a decent definition of appliance.
I am getting sick of the game console comparisons. People are NOT replacing real computers with gaming consoles, but there's an increasing push(especially by Apple fanboys) that the iDevices are the future of computing.
Gaming consoles were never considered the future of computing, that's why they don't represent a threat to freedom. This is the reason that people are justifiably upset about Apple's restrictions.
Re:Only Apple haters are stuck in the dark ages
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
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· Score: 1
Err what?
I am beginning to think that you might not actually be a Apple fanboy but a cunning troll. I can't imagine someone being really this stupid.
The issue is about restricting developers by the use of "Trusted Computing" and DRM, not about whether it can play non DRM stuff. Can you make it play WebM? No, because Steve Jobs hates it, you cannot. That's the freedom that's being lost.
you probably just have sour grapes because you can't afford one on a dell helpdesk salary.
This is the smugness of rabid Apple fanboys that irritates people I guess. There are plenty of us who can easily administer real computers(unlike you) and want nothing to do with flaunting shiny restricted iDevices as a symbol of riches inspite of being easily able to afford them.
Slashdot Mirror
Why not just have a increased rate for Saturday delivery like Fedex and UPS? I don't see a reason for something to run on a loss. If Amazon's customers appreciate or expect it, either they or Amazon can pay extra for it.
That's the beauty of the way Apple has positioned itself.
Huh? Running only on a shitty carrier is a beautiful way of doing things? Lovely fanboy spin if I have ever seen one.
From the summary:
5% of the apps were found to have the ability to make calls, and 2% can send text messages, without the mobile user doing anything."
Err, the mobile user was explicitly informed of this BEFORE the software is install. Don't believe me? Check this screenshot http://www.taosoftware.co.jp/en/android/wakeupcallmaker/img/wakeupcallmaker_install.png
I guess someone has an axe to grind against Android (hint, hint) just because there were stories earlier about the iPhone revealing the exact location of the users to applications and ads.
Someone is going to post some long justification about exploits in the wild and some blah blah about monopoly. Whereas when it's about MS it's 'M$ can't code'. Apple gets a free pass on everything, including DRM in the iPhone and Trusted Computing.
Apple seems to have a particularly strong fanbase even amongst geeks which can't take valid criticism and does not hesitate to use their mod points for days after a story to stamp out any posts that can be construed as negative towards Apple.
Not against bugs in Safari, for sure. And some exploits are local ones.. like connecting a locked iPhone to a computer and reading all the personal data from there.
You're misunderstanding. My parent poster claimed that locking down the iOS 4 is justified because the iPhone just a cellphone and they were historically closed.
I posted a reply stating that the iOS doesn't just run on iPhone but the iPad also. The implication was that his justification does not extend to the iPad or the iPod touch.
You come along and claim the iPad is a phone. It can be used to make calls just like any PC can with Skype and a Internet connection.
But you miss the point of the original poster and you seem to imply that since the iPad can be used as a phone, it okay to lock it down.
Just because your big screen TV can be used as large paperweight doesn't mean it's a paperweight.
Use your cash to build the next iPhone killer rather than whining that the current iPhone isn't everything you want. Pretty simple.
Build your own Slashdot if you don't like my 'whining'. And ban me from it. ;)
Pretty simple.
The issue is not that the terms are necessarily bad. But there might be stores that offer 80%-20%. Or even 71%. Or treat the developers with respect. But Apple wants to be the ONLY store. There lies the issue.
But if you're Adobe, you can sell Photoshop to BestBuy and Fry's customers at Walmart, or Target or on the Internet. There is no one choking the distribution system or monopolizing it like Apple is.
Err, the example of game consoles is being given as a comparison to justify the locking down of the iDevices. Lots of people play games on PCs as well, that doesn't mean locking down PCs can be justified.
Are PS3s replacing or being predicted to replace laptops or desktops?
Stockholm syndrom is not a disease, just a phenomenon that can happen to anyone. Anyway, my apologies for that, I take it back.
Coming back on topic:
Freedom is not free. Just because some people cannot keep their systems clean doesn't mean that everyone should be locked out from installing what they want on their own device.
As Mark Twain said:
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.
As much as I try, friend, I cannot seem to feel this "freedom being lost", because I cannot make my ipad play WebM. I cannot make it play blu-ray disks either, which also seems to affect my feeling of "freedom" in no way whatsoever.
Not being able to play BluRay is a physical restriction whereas WebM is an artificial one imposed by Apple. And just because you don't feel the loss of freedom doesn't mean others don't or that it's a good thing.
Because I didn't get it to make people feel bad, friend. I got it because I really, really like them.
I call BS on that. If that was the case you wouldn't have insulted your parent poster by saying:
"you probably just have sour grapes because you can't afford one on a dell helpdesk salary."
Look, here's the deal: if Apple wants to control the platform and the approve all the apps, and use nebulous/arbitrary criteria to reject apps for any length of time even against the express wishes of its users, then they open themselves up to being accused of being fascist control freaks worse than Microsoft. THEY open THEMSELVES up to that accusation, for it otherwise would hold no water. Got it?
Best Buy is such a fascist organization. I went there the other day and insisted that the store manager place my software on their shelf, and he said no! And he didn't even quote me a section from the Best Buy Corporate Handbook! I call for a full boycott of Best Buy.
But if you buy a PC from BestBuy, you can buy Adobe Photoshop for it from Fry's without paying 30% of the price to BestBuy and it's approval.
None of what you said requires the draconian lockdown. Just hide a button deep down in the menus somewhere to enable apps to be installed bypassing the app store. The App store can still be in place and the benefits you list will still be there.
But nah, Apple wants the forced 30% cut and the control so they won't. And they still will have lots of otherwise smart people defending it's every move.
So, according to the OP's logic, the justification for the iOS 4 being locked down on the iPad and iPod Touch is that it also runs on a cell phone? Are you serious?
The OP said:
And the other 80% of the cellphone market that uses subscription crapware I can only get through the telco is different how?
How does the 'other 80% of the cellphone market' equate only dumbphones? Anyway, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, and Android were around even before the Holy Phone debuted and still had none of the nonsense restrictions that Apple is imposing.
It's like bitching that your brand new shiny sports car doesn't have leather seats and they won't let you put in aftermarket leather seats without voiding the warranty while conveniently forgetting that you were driving a rusty pinto before.
It's more like you can't install a GPS device in a car without forking over 30% of the price to the car manufacturer, that too only if they approve it. And the 'rusty pinto' comment makes it sound like we should be forever be beholden to Apple for gracing us with shiny iDevices and not speak out against their deficiences and desire for control.
And everyone else was a HELL of a lot worse before they came along and I'm sure you weren't wrapping yourselves in the "freedom" flag back then.
Huh, which smartphone vendor was a lot worse before they came along? Windows Mobile was always open, Blackberry was open and Android was FOSS.
The reason is some people just blindly hate Apple and this is their avenue to scream.
Looks like some people just blindly loooove Apple and can't digest ANY criticism.
Sophistication and priorities? Hmm.
Apple doesn't, in any actual fact, dominate how I use my iPhone, you know.
Can you play files encoded with WebM on your phone? No, because Jobs doesn't want you to. Can you run the native version of Google Voice? Nah. REJECTED.
Just because you are in denial of the control that Apple has on the iPhone doesn't mean that there is no control or domination. It's probably more akin to some kind of Stockholm syndrome.
End-users on the iPhone/iPad are much more comfortable than PC users in making use of a diverse array of applications. Yes, these apps are all approved by Apple, but I personally believe that part of the reason users are comfortable with the App Store is the simple fact that downloading apps will not, generally speaking, trash their device, take it over, or do something unexpected. Compare this to the open PC where you have huge amounts of malware and where even legitimate applications act in anti-user ways (like Sun's JVM which tries to install the Yahoo! toolbar). No surprise that other mobile platforms have introduced app stores of their own.
Err, no one is asking to abolish the App store. Just that there is a button somewhere deep down hidden which can activate software installs bypassing the App store. You can still have all the benefits you listed in this scenario.
In this environment claiming that Apple "dominates" usage of iOS or that the experience simply "sucks" doesn't seem that sophisticated to me.
Positing that Apple doesn't absolutely dominate the iOS by arbitrarily and capriciously rejecting and approving Apps for no discernible reasons is far from sophisticated.
Its tired. No one can be even vaguely positive towards anything Apple does without being dismissed as a "fanboy" -- even if you criticize something Apple does a breath after you praise another thing they've done. Hell, you can be only moderately-pro-Apple and then luxuriate praise on something Android does and yet if you point out even one flaw or weakness -- even if its purely objective -- and your entire point of view is immediately dismissed as a "fanboy". T
It goes both ways, say something remotely negative about Apple and you're labeled an Apple hater and the 'Overrated' mods come on and on for days out of woodwork.
I personally like apple screening all of the crap out
You mean crap like all those iFart apps?
Sure there are some potentially good stuff they have not allowed but I dont miss it.
Err, how do you know you don't miss it when you don't know what they are or could be?
Every kind of app I have wanted has been there in some form. When you need a phone to constantly function as a phone and be secure a more closed model where you cant install any old crap off of the internet seems to be the better way to go
Some people wanted to run Google Voice as an app, but were denied because Apple didn't want them to do so.
If you choose to live in apple's walled garden, life is great. You have stability performance and usefulness. Once you experience this all come together everything else seems inferior.
If Apple were to relax the DRM on the iDevices, people like you can still use Apple's app store only if you wanted. No one would force you to download apps from Google or whatever.
they are computers with massively reduced user freedom
I think it's an appliance in the same way that my PS3 is an appliance. There is a computer under the covers and the device is quite general purpose, but in the end its an appliance because I don't have the freedom to tinker.
I think "computer with massively reduced user freedom" could be part of a decent definition of appliance.
I am getting sick of the game console comparisons. People are NOT replacing real computers with gaming consoles, but there's an increasing push(especially by Apple fanboys) that the iDevices are the future of computing.
Read about how a 'network security expert' replaced this laptop with an iPad --> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1693064&cid=32641740
Read these articles about how the iPad is supposed to take over computing and make desktops and laptop obsolete:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175600/The_iPad_is_the_future_for_home_computing
http://gizmodo.com/5506692/ipad-is-the-future
http://www.macworld.com/article/146038/2010/01/ipad_future_shock.html
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/ipad-future/
http://techcrunch.com/2010/01/27/ipad/
Gaming consoles were never considered the future of computing, that's why they don't represent a threat to freedom. This is the reason that people are justifiably upset about Apple's restrictions.
Err what?
I am beginning to think that you might not actually be a Apple fanboy but a cunning troll. I can't imagine someone being really this stupid.
The issue is about restricting developers by the use of "Trusted Computing" and DRM, not about whether it can play non DRM stuff. Can you make it play WebM? No, because Steve Jobs hates it, you cannot. That's the freedom that's being lost.
you probably just have sour grapes because you can't afford one on a dell helpdesk salary.
This is the smugness of rabid Apple fanboys that irritates people I guess. There are plenty of us who can easily administer real computers(unlike you) and want nothing to do with flaunting shiny restricted iDevices as a symbol of riches inspite of being easily able to afford them.