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Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data

WrongSizeGlass writes "CNET is reporting that a fifth of Android apps expose private data. The Android market threat report details the security issues uncovered. Dozens of apps were found to have the same type of access to sensitive information as known spyware does, including access to the content of e-mail and text messages, phone call information, and device location. 5% of the apps were found to have the ability to make calls, and 2% can send text messages, without the mobile user doing anything."

286 comments

  1. Exposing private data by flaming+error · · Score: 5, Funny

    I tend to expose private data after a fifth of scotch.

    1. Re:Exposing private data by Pojut · · Score: 3, Funny

      I exposed your mom's private data last night...but it was too corrupted to be worth anything.

      Zing!

    2. Re:Exposing private data by flaming+error · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hope you're joking. She's been dead for 12 years.

    3. Re:Exposing private data by Pojut · · Score: 4, Funny

      That simultaneously makes my joke even funnier and makes me an even bigger dickhead.

      No offense intended :/

    4. Re:Exposing private data by flaming+error · · Score: 5, Funny

      No offense taken. You're not a dickhead, just a guy cracking jokes. Like me. (My mom's not dead, and she approved my comeback. She's here in the basement doing laundry now).

    5. Re:Exposing private data by TheLink · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's what all those psychos claim- "Mom's doing the laundry in the basement, she's too busy to see you right now, yeah busy with the laundry...".

      Ah but those android apps may soon expose your dark basement secrets...

      --
    6. Re:Exposing private data by AnAdventurer · · Score: 2, Funny

      My moms a writer, she lives in a little farm house by herself writing poetry on a half broken iMac no one will ever read with a blind dog at her side that barks at the cows in the field across the street. No one visits her.

      --
      6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
    7. Re:Exposing private data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure she is Norman...

    8. Re:Exposing private data by PerfectionLost · · Score: 1

      What you're saying is that she needs a phone that will expose her private data so people come and visit her. Am I right?

    9. Re:Exposing private data by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So that's why they call it "bitrot".

    10. Re:Exposing private data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "GET OUT OF MY ROOM, MOM!!"

  2. Operative words by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    5% of the apps were found to have the ability to make calls, and 2% can send text messages, without the mobile user doing anything

    Emphasis mine. I'm not saying it's right that this could occur, but I operate under the assumption that anything I do online or with my phone is not private.

    I think it's rather foolish to assume otherwise.

    1. Re:Operative words by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How is this any different from what apps on an iPhone can do? Last time I checked many of them had access to address book, text messages, etc. Sounds like FUD to me.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    2. Re:Operative words by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      What they are saying is that 2400 apps can make phone calls without the user, and 960 can send out text messages - so its likely a couple in there are malware designed to deprive you of your money.

      And then they go on to say "Dozens of apps were found to have the same type of access to sensitive information as known spyware does". My My, DOZENS you say? But not hundreds, to suggest more than 100 of the 48 thousand apps available.

      Now, how did they get this information I wonder? Is it because some of the Apps are open source? If its open source, is it really a threat?

    3. Re:Operative words by jeffmeden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If its open source, is it really a threat?

      Have you read the source to all the open source apps you use? If your answer is no, then the answer to your question is yes.

    4. Re:Operative words by somersault · · Score: 1

      It also doesn't say anything about whether the apps it mentions are actually malware rather than apps who's whole purpose revolves around being able to access your phone book and send texts etc.

      Well, the summary doesn't at least. You didn't think I was going to RTFA, did you?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Operative words by sarysa · · Score: 3, Informative

      They got the figures by mining information from each app via the Android Market, or through one of the many aggregator sites like this one. Permissions are publicly listed, so that's how they came to their figures.

      But yeah, it's incredibly misleading. The user is warned on install and at the bottom of the application's description in the Market.

      --
      Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
    6. Re:Operative words by Kristoph · · Score: 4, Informative

      IPhone apps do not have access to email or text messages or the data in any other app except through a very well defined API that requires user confirmation in virtually all instances of data sharing.

      In many cases there is no way to access the content of another app (email for example).

      It it also not possible for an app to make a call without user confirmation and it is not possible to send a text message at all.

      Now this is, in fact, sort of a pain because I'd really like to build an app that sends or receives text messages but it does make for improved data security.

    7. Re:Operative words by MikeBabcock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This PDF was the most useless crap slashvertisement I've seen in a while. They're trying to sell us their anti-spyware package for Android, by citing stats that are meaningless.

      I have Handcent SMS installed. Of course it wants permission to send and receive SMS messages.
      I have a remote bricking package installed so I can disable my phone remotely if lost or stolen, so it has those permissions legitimately too.

      The key is verifying that the permissions a package requests seem reasonable upon installation.

      For example, if your new kids fingerpaint program requires full internet access, contact list access and sms access, you might have spyware on your hands.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    8. Re:Operative words by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      How specific is the warning? Does it state that the app may be able to dial without the users permission, or send text messages without their permission, or is it a more generic "may access private data" type prompt?

      It's amazing to me that Android users are so willing to trust total strangers in defense of their chosen platform. Such information, if published about Microsoft or Apple would have everyone lighting their torches, open source or not. I guarantee you that the vast bulk of app users do not scan every line of code in these apps for malware. Regular users wouldn't even know how.

    9. Re:Operative words by soupd · · Score: 1

      How is this any different from what apps on an iPhone can do? Last time I checked many of them had access to address book, text messages, etc. Sounds like FUD to me.

      Then you've never checked. A lot of developers have complained about the inability of apps to access to user data, except in a few circumstances. This is by design. Indeed in iOS it's only recently been possible for apps to put appointments into the calendar, they still can't peruse and data mine it.

    10. Re:Operative words by mweather · · Score: 4, Informative

      IPhone apps do not have access to email or text messages or the data in any other app except through a very well defined API that requires user confirmation in virtually all instances of data sharing.

      As does Android. Th

    11. Re:Operative words by SighKoPath · · Score: 5, Informative
      As an example, here is the warning text from the most recent update to the Google Maps application:

      This application has access to the following:
      • Your personal information: read contact data, write contact data
      • Services that cost you money: directly call phone numbers
      • Your location: coarse (network-based) location, fine (GPS) location
      • Network communication: full Internet access
      • Your accounts: Google Maps, manage the accounts list, use the authentication credentials of an account
      • Storage: modify/delete SD card contents
      • Phone calls: read phone state and identity
      • Hardware controls: record audio
      • System tools: prevent phone from sleeping, retrieve running applications

      These are all displayed to the user in big orange warning text, with an OK/Cancel button below 'em. Every application in the market does this sort of thing, so the user knows exactly what every app is able to do. The article looks like FUD to me.

    12. Re:Operative words by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right, and sometimes the permissions are for things you don't need, but are used by the end user from time to time. Such as the ability to look up a phone number and then call it from the app itself. Having an app do that would likely get it listed as being able to make phone calls.

      If any change is needed, it would be nice to either be able to deny just the functionality you don't want to allow or be given a pop up before it does so. I'm not sure that the latter doesn't happen as it hasn't been an issue so far.

    13. Re:Operative words by amRadioHed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Does it? I've used several apps that have had access to my text messages, and I've never been presented with a confirmation request from them.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    14. Re:Operative words by Unequivocal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For the real question is what percent of market apps abuse this capability? It's one thing to have the capability (and the installer is pretty clear about what an app can and can't do when you first install it), but it's another to have a bunch of spyware apps out there abusing users' data. My guess is this story is Apple FUD and that the market is working just fine with lots of well-behaved apps doing useful things with calling data, email and text capabilities.

    15. Re:Operative words by jsnipy · · Score: 1

      You have a clear list of what the app needs access to prior to installing. Rights are not granted with subterfuge.

      It allows for more choices rather then just defaults for things like SMS, web browsing, and email i.e. do what you want with your phone.

      --
      -- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
    16. Re:Operative words by tjhart85 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The real problem isn't that these apps HAVE the access. The problem is idiots installing Chase apps that were created by BobsSoftwareCompany and then getting surprised that it emailed back their username/password to Bob! I have an app called Dindy that when I mark myself as being at work, if anyone calls, it SMSs them to say that I'm working and if it's an emergency, they can call back w/in 5 minutes & then Dindy will let the call through. What's it need: android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE android.permission.PROCESS_OUTGOING_CALLS android.permission.SEND_SMS android.permission.READ_CONTACTS android.permission.WAKE_LOCK Yup, all those make sense, but according to this "study" this app is malware!

    17. Re:Operative words by jsnipy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Android too has a "very well defined API". It just provides more liberty for more innovation without the notion that every user needs to be told what they can and cannot have their phones do.

      --
      -- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
    18. Re:Operative words by pegisys · · Score: 5, Informative

      You have to OK all the things that an app can touch before you install it, if you go installing apps without looking at what it can possibly touch then that is your problem. That is unless there is an exploit that allows developers to access features that it does not specify in the application manifest.

    19. Re:Operative words by ScienceofSpock · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The difference is that SMobile doesn't appear to have an antivirus/malware app for the iPhone.

    20. Re:Operative words by DIplomatic · · Score: 1
      It's not an issue of privacy. It's an issue that apps on your phone can place calls and send text messages, which could cost you money if you don't have enough monthly minutes or you only get so many texts per month, etc.

      I operate under the assumption that anything I do online or with my phone is not private.

      I'm tired of this BS, knee-jerk reaction from /.'ers. The possessions in my house are private, even though someone could pretty easily pick the lock on my door and get inside, or peek in through the window, or whatever analogy you want to use.

    21. Re:Operative words by Albatrosses · · Score: 1

      This may seem like a stupid question, but why exactly does Google Maps need to "read phone state and identity" (i.e. not just dialing phone numbers), "record audio", and "modify/delete SD card contents"?

    22. Re:Operative words by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some of these seem alarming to me:

      Directly call phone numbers?
      Why does the maps app need access to the phone state and identity?
      Why would it it need to modify SD Card contents (caching?)
      Why would it need to record audio?

      If these are typical of prompts seen by an everyday computer user, they wouldn't understand the implications, and they would click 'ok'. We see this every day in computing.

      • Services that cost you money: directly call phone numbers
      • Storage: modify/delete SD card contents
      • Phone calls: read phone state and identity
      • Hardware controls: record audio
    23. Re:Operative words by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      The beauty of open source is not that you personally can check all of your installed apps to make sure none of them are doing anything evil (although that is a good thing). It's that there are thousands of eyes looking over that source code -- many (most, probably) of them far more skilled than mine. Malware will be outed, even if I'm not the one who finds it.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    24. Re:Operative words by tweek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You were presented with the confirmation when you installed the application. You should always read the requested permissions list before installing an application. If you're downloading a game, why does it need access to activate the phone? Legitimate developers will frequently leave comments and notes in the description about WHY they need additional permissions.

      --
      "Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
    25. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It needs to read if the phone is in suspend mode or not to save battery, and it needs to write to the SD card to cache data.

      Dunno what it's recording audio for, though.

    26. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prove it, show us a photo of your iPh...no? you don't have one?
      You can be lying so iPhone fans can feel better about their purchase, because everything else in this story shows plenty of warnings. Just prove it and I will believe you.

    27. Re:Operative words by nilbog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Security through inoperability.

      --
      or else!
    28. Re:Operative words by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but they said "requires user confirmation in virtually all instances of data sharing", and I interpret "all instances of data sharing" to mean each time the app requests data, not just the general permission statement at install time.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    29. Re:Operative words by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      I believe on the iPhone, you are prompted before the app attempts to use the service, and you are given the ability to allow or deny it access. This is also something you are able to change in the global Settings menu.

    30. Re:Operative words by AaronLS · · Score: 1

      There is a list of all the accesses the application will have before you install the app, or any update to the app as well.

    31. Re:Operative words by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      That's not the issue at all, you dolt. The issue is that Android doesn't prompt you before an app attempts to use the services. On the iPhone, you are prompted before it attempts to use a service, and then you can tell it to either allow or deny access. Once chosen, it does remember your choice, but you can change it at any time through the Settings menu.

    32. Re:Operative words by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      It sounded to me like the OP was saying the iPhone requested permission each time an app requested access to your data. Android doesn't do that.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    33. Re:Operative words by rjstanford · · Score: 2, Informative

      The beauty of open source is not that you personally can check all of your installed apps to make sure none of them are doing anything evil (although that is a good thing). It's that there are thousands of eyes looking over that source code

      Actually, I believe that you'll find that there are thousands of eyes belonging to people who are saying exactly what you are saying... which is why even obvious exploits have lived in massively used packages for months at a time.

      After all, if you can't be bothered, why assume that anyone else can?

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    34. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't you know? It's part of the Apple marketing shill handbook 2010.

      For every pro-iPhone article, there must be an equal and opposite anti-Android article.

    35. Re:Operative words by Drew+M. · · Score: 1

      Not really scary.

      You've never used Google maps mobile to dial a business directly?

      Nearly all android apps access the phone state and identity, mostly to tell if you're in a call so they won't attempt to do microphone recording.

      Any app that caches data needs to use the SD card.

      Recording audio is actually quite important when you're doing a voice search.

      Nothing to see here.

    36. Re:Operative words by Macthorpe · · Score: 3, Informative

      It asks you before you install the app so it doesn't bug you every five minutes after you install it when it tries to do things you're already aware it's going to do.

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    37. Re:Operative words by Pojut · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So now you're pissed that it doesn't work like Vista-era security by asking if you want allow or not? Make up your mind, people! Sheesh!

    38. Re:Operative words by Monchanger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sounds like FUD to me.

      Always a possibility to question these days. I have a silghtly different theory...

      Note paragraph 3 of the whitepaper's summary:

      SMobile's new behavior-based detection methodology leverages heuristic-style technology to determine if an application could be malicious, then gives the user the ability to use this information to determine if ... application is requesting permission to do things that just doesn't make sense for the application.

      Given this it's obvious the whitepaper is an advertisement, not an objective security report.

      Where the FUD question comes in is whether their application can actually do a better job at determining whether an application is "non-malicious" than the user could themselves. I believe the claim is exaggerated because trying to make a computer understand what an application does and how that relates to Android's security API is far from a trivial task.

    39. Re:Operative words by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      The beauty of open source is not that you personally can check all of your installed apps to make sure none of them are doing anything evil (although that is a good thing). It's that there are thousands of eyes looking over that source code -- many (most, probably) of them far more skilled than mine. Malware will be outed, even if I'm not the one who finds it.

      There are numerous studies that show that the more people who can perform a socially beneficial task, the less likely anyone is to do it. Look at what happened to Catherine Genovese in 1964. 38 people watch her get slowly murdered for over 30 minutes, and no one called the cops.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    40. Re:Operative words by Pojut · · Score: 2, Funny

      So it's just like Vista-era security? You know, the same annoying "Allow or Deny" people used to make fun of?

      So you're saying your iPhone is like Vista?

    41. Re:Operative words by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2, Informative

      And when every app just lists every possible thing they could do (as the Google Maps app seems to), you might as well not have fine grained access control. Welcome to Windows (pre-Vista).

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    42. Re:Operative words by malakai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Google map app has built in voice search that I don't think is at the OS level. For example, if you click the mic button while in map mode and say "navigate to gas station" it goes into nav mode to the nearest gas station.

      Don't think of it like the web based google mas, think of it instead as a hand-free car's navigation system. It will also dial numbers for you, including knowing to dial where your driving to ( "Dial Destination or some such magical phrase).

    43. Re:Operative words by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      IPhone apps do not have access to email or text messages or the data in any other app except through a very well defined API that requires user confirmation in virtually all instances of data sharing.

      yes, just like android in fact.

      if an android app is doing any of those things, it's because the user granted it permission to do so.

    44. Re:Operative words by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      What? I'm pissed am I? Actually I quite like the Android permissions as they are. I don't recall ever saying I want them changed.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    45. Re:Operative words by jittles · · Score: 1

      Because you can do a voice search on maps.

    46. Re:Operative words by jittles · · Score: 1
      Because when you search for a point of interest you may:
      • Use voice search. It pops up a giant microphone on the screen that covers 3/4 of the display on the Evo in every application I've seen that uses voice search/voice recognition.
      • Store contact information for a location to the SD card as a .vsf (or whatever the format is)
      • Call the phone number listed for the point of interest you have selected.
    47. Re:Operative words by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I meant the general "you", not "you, amRadioHed". My bad -_-;;

    48. Re:Operative words by malakai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason is, the Google Map app is NOT http://maps.google.com./ It's far more complicated. It's essentially a full car navigation system. It will respond to voice commands, dial numbers for you, keep the phone from sleeping ( so you can keep looking down at it while driving without having to unlock your phone ), cache's a large amount of data especially if sat view is on and traffic is on, and wiki layers, and last search layers...etc...etc.

      Look, this is very much a One Button Mouse vs n-Button Mouse debate. On the Apple products, you don't trust the user or developer.... ever (unless the developer is Apple). On the Android platform, each party is liable. While the developer is held in a sandbox based on specific rights, it's not impossible for a seemingly legitimate app to wake-up in the middle of the night and dial 1-900 numbers. This trade-off in security is deemed a worthy risk because of the payoff in productivity and usefulness in increased application integration.

      Google maps is a great example of the uber app on the Android. And all the functionality of Google maps could be replaced with by some other application. Anyone can compete with it. In the Apple world, the Google Map App would pretty much need to be part of the base phone operating system, or at least produced by Apple and not run in the sandbox.

      In the case that a developer of an app uses it maliciously, it falls back to Google and Google marketplace to police this app.

    49. Re:Operative words by rgriff59 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, "...prompted before it attempts to use a service, .. allow or deny access."

      I can just imagine just how useful that would be for the programs that protect you from private data exposure and unauthorized phone charges in the event of phone theft.

      "May I please read this incoming SMS to see if it contains authentication from the legitimate owner?"

      "May I please brick the phone now that the legitimate owner's request has been verified?"

      You grant permissions up front. It isn't wrong, it is different.

    50. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you are looking at locations on the map, like let's say Pizza Hut, you can opt to call the listed phone number.

      I assume it records audio for being able to use voice controls.

    51. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Superfreakapwned! Reading that much into the Genovese story is a bit of an over-reach. Even for slashdot. See this link for part of the explanation: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/11/superfreakonomi_1.html

    52. Re:Operative words by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Then it might be more useful, and secure, to note in the warning that they cannot initiate a call without user action. I got the gist from the article that the sandboxing isn't that specific, meaning once you grant access, it's all or nothing.

      Specifically, once you grant an App the ability to dial a number, can it do so without user intervention? Will it prompt after future updates?

      It seems like an important security feature. The same with audio recording, accessing personal information, etc. All it would take would be an unscrupulous developer who had a seemingly innocent app, who later pushes out updates that allow this access behind the scenes, or one who doesn't even bother with an app update to hide what their doing, much like the banking software that was used to store users banking credentials.

      http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2010/01/11/banking-malware-android-marketplace/

    53. Re:Operative words by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IPhone apps do not have access to email or text messages or the data in any other app except through a very well defined API

      That's not correct. iPhone apps have access to a far larger amount of data than you might expect. For instance they can all read the "keyboard cache" which records all keystrokes save for passwords. This iPhone Privacy study may prove interesting.

    54. Re:Operative words by oakgrove · · Score: 1
      Really? We get to beat up on this decomposed to dust horse again? Whee!

      If its open source, is it really a threat?

      Have you read the source to all the open source apps you use? If your answer is no, then the answer to your question is yes.

      No, skippy, it's a threat if it engaging in nefarious behavior. Open source or closed is irrelevant. What is relevant though is that if it is open, and you really really really want to know, you can either take a look or have someone do it for you.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    55. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes in your case it would say "This app requests the following permission: READ SMS MESSAGES", to just be alerted when one comes in would be "RECEIVE SMS MESSAGES". There is no way around these, a security exception is thrown.

    56. Re:Operative words by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Yee haw! Because we can expect that any malicious app will pop to the foreground and proclaim "hahah stupid user, your private info has been raped by this app!" and the secret will be out after the first person runs it. The open source community will then come to the rescue, fix the person's phone, and track down the author and chop off his fingers so he can never write bad code again.

      Assuming that just because it's open source it will be malware-free (as the OP did) is just as stupid as assuming that closed source commercial software will be secure because someone is getting paid to write it well.

      Both ideas are pretty f*ing stupid, how hard is that to miss?

    57. Re:Operative words by andymadigan · · Score: 1

      When you install the application is lists the permissions it has, including "Ability to make calls" and "Access to SMS messages", there's quite a number of possibles, but the list always presented. People complain if your app has access to something it shouldn't, e.g. your location.

      --
      The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    58. Re:Operative words by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      One of the slickest things about android is that apps don't need to maintain their own contact lists.

      Even a third party app can step in and give you alternate options for calling someone. The google voice app is great (and initially wasn't google produced) - when i go to dial a number it gives me a choice of whether to call them directly or route the call through my GV account.

      I don't feel like the current set of apps in the market fully realize that, but hopefully in time it'll improve

    59. Re:Operative words by droopycom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The differences between Android and iPhone are: (AFAIK)

      - There are much less of these APIs on the iPhone than Android (eg: I dont think there is any API to access your email from an iPhone App, or make phone call or SMS without user confirmation)

      - Android's user confirmation is at install, while iPhone's user confirmation is when the app try to use a particular API for the first time (eg: when it tries to use location) And the app can keep running even if the user denies it the right to use a specific service.

      All in all, the iPhone security scheme is much more conservative, with the side effect that you cant do as many things in an iPhone app as you could in an Android App. For example, you could probably write an android app to could automatically navigate phone menus (eg: "For billing press 1" kind of things) while this is probably not possible for iPhone.

      Apple is betting that their conservative approach will be more appealing for users if they dont have articles like this one coming out. Google is betting that their open approach will be more appealing to developers, but if more article like this come out, Android will become like windows security wise. It does not matter if it is true, or if it is a matter of user giving permissions, its all a matter of perception.

    60. Re:Operative words by oakgrove · · Score: 1
      Did you even read what I wrote? Or did it just not jive with your "us against the world" soap opera talking points so much that you just decided to respond to what you pretend I said?

      Allow me to reiterate. Open or closed, it doesn't matter as they can both be malware. The only real difference is that I at least have the opportunity to take a peek if it's open. I'm only speaking for myself and yes, I have gone through some programs line by line for various reasons. Mostly to either add some functionality or to clean up some rough edges but if I'd seen anything bad, I certainly would have sounded the alarm.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    61. Re:Operative words by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Reading that much into the Genovese story is a bit of an over-reach.

      I'm not. I'm reading it into the studies it inspired. As indicated by me starting with "There are numerous studies that show..."

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    62. Re:Operative words by socsoc · · Score: 1

      If only the phone came with an app that would send and receive text messages. Maybe call it Messages.

    63. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And so the users are conditioned that it is "okay" to have an app that can delete the SD card contents, or make calls, etc., etc. Having big warnings are useless when they are commonplace.

    64. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, the article is a completely a bullshit troll!

      These are not accidental releases of information. When the application was installed the user specifically granted access to the data being exposed. Period. Obviously apple fans are scared shitless of competition and release bullshit like this to scare people away. If this scares you away from Android, you should use any computing device. Period.

      In other news, all data around the world has been "exposed" because someone, somewhere, has root access. Even worse, applications which users install to perform specific tasks, access the required data to perform said tasks! Shocking! Simply shocking! News at eleven.

    65. Re:Operative words by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      "read phone state and identity"

      This one was a little vague for me. "Phone state" could mean several things. It may be looking for other Google applications installed or running that it could work with.

      "record audio"

      Speech-to-text voice searching (it needs to record your voice telling it what you want to search for).

      "modify/delete SD card contents"

      That's the standard permission for applications which need to save local data. For Maps, that probably includes things like a list of the last several locations that you've searched for or navigated to/from. I haven't looked through the SD card to see what's actually stored there.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    66. Re:Operative words by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      It's not a matter of whether or not I can be bothered; it's whether or not I am qualified to search for exploits. My programming skills are sufficient to make my life as a sys admin easier, but I am not nearly good enough to search for security holes in Postfix, for example. You raise a good point - there are many of us who wouldn't recognize a security exploit in C code, even if it was pointed out to us, but I suspect there are people who *do* based upon the fact that open source software is *at least* as secure, overall, as comparable commercial products.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    67. Re:Operative words by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Have you ever looked at the splash screen of two different programs, saw that one was GPLed and the source was published, and thought to your self "well I will use that one, it must be secure, it's open source". This is what the OP was suggesting by dismissing all open source software as inherently secure with the line "If its open source, is it really a threat?"

      That's what you were defending, suggesting it's "beating a dead horse" to question the security of open source programs since, after all, someone COULD look at the source so the author must have been 100% honest!

      Do you read what you replied to?

    68. Re:Operative words by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      If you don't like it don't install! When you install it warns you what kind of data the application has access to and what kind of settings it can change. This is truly a first for any operating system and an awesome feature - frankly linux distros, Apple and Microsoft would do well to pay attention to Android, some of it's security features are so far ahead it's not funny.

      If that fart button app reports it wants access to full internet, your calls, services that cost you money... maybe you should hit cancel and move on.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    69. Re:Operative words by nmos · · Score: 1

      Specifically, once you grant an App the ability to dial a number, can it do so without user intervention?

      So what's the alternative? Have the OS pop up a seperate confirmation dialog box every time you tell one of your apps to dial a number? That would get old pretty quick. This IS a phone after all so it's not surprising that many of the apps are going to need regular access to the phone functionality.

      Will it prompt after future updates?

      Currently yes, every update displays the list of permissions for that app/update just the same as a new install. I'm not sure if that will remain in 2.2 though.

      It seems like an important security feature. The same with audio recording, accessing personal information, etc. All it would take would be an unscrupulous developer who had a seemingly innocent app, who later pushes out updates that allow this access behind the scenes, or one who doesn't even bother with an app update to hide what their doing, much like the banking software that was used to store users banking credentials.

      Just like on a PC? At some point you just have to trust the software you've chosen to install. If you want to limit you're risk then the easiest thing is to limit your installed apps to a limited number of trusted ones. About the only improvement I can think of would be to have a nicely formatted log of what apps have done what and when. The logging is already there (catlog or logcat, I forget) so we'd just need a tool to parse the logs and pull out the relevant info.

    70. Re:Operative words by oakgrove · · Score: 1
      Here:

      If its open source, is it really a threat?

      Have you read the source to all the open source apps you use? If your answer is no, then the answer to your question is yes.

      You quoted the guy out of context and made up a nice little straw man out of it. By your definition, all software is a threat unless you have personally pored over it line by line. That's absurd. You can't just fit people in to your little nerd turf war source box everytime it's convenient and then magically be right. I only got into the conversation to point out the absurdity of you saying that open source is a threat if you haven't "read the source to all the open source apps you use". I mean, WTF?

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    71. Re:Operative words by azmodean+1 · · Score: 1

      The problem with this is that there is no way to verify that the action was performed based on user interaction, unless the OS interrupts the app every time it does something "suspicious" to ask for the user's permission. This doesn't work, because then the UI has a horrible interface that bothers you about things all the time.

      The only information the OS has is that the app requested permission to dial phone numbers and the user hit "ok" to allowing that kind of access when the app was installed. Something you *might* want to do is have a separate security level for dialing when the phone is idle. (I have no idea if Android does this or not) Don't disallow it completely! what if I want an app to call my wife and remind her of something at a certain time? What if I'm paranoid about getting kidnapped and have a deadman switch app that calls someone and lets them know where I am if I DON'T enter a code into the phone once an hour? These are real (if odd) use cases.

      Here's an example of why your plan doesn't work. Let's pick on google maps, and assume it's a malicious app. It isn't allowed to dial phone numbers unless the user is interacting with the app at the time. So you're driving somewhere and using the phone for navigation, you've met the requirement, so the app strikes! It calls a phone sex line while you're driving and gets you billed for it! There's fundamentally no way around this while providing powerful features and a good user interface.

      If the app is malicious and you trust it, there is nothing the OS can do to protect you except for just disabling all the functionality you bought the thing for in the first place. (I'm hoping that smartphones in general allow you to disable functionality that you aren't comfortable with, if not that's bad, but a separate issue)

      There are certainly things you can do to help reduce the exposure of the user, like only allowing programs to dial when the phone is in interactive mode (unless it specifically requested permission to do THAT), but in general, they are doing what they can to provide the user with the information they need in order to make an informed decision.

      Sure that list is intimidating, but if you can't figure out why an app needs access to certain functionality, then you shouldn't install it, duh. It's up to the app author to clearly explain why it needs that access, and what it does with it that you just can't live without. Also they need to somehow establish their credibility. But that's a separate issue, partially addressed by the official app marketplace.

    72. Re:Operative words by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      No, its more similar to the way Linux and UNIX systems operate. Which is much more convenient than Vista.

    73. Re:Operative words by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      You quoted the guy out of context and made up a nice little straw man out of it.

      Wow, just like you are trying to say that I insisted somewhere that personally auditing all source code is the only way to be sure an open source app isn't malicious? I see what you did there!

      I used code auditing as an example, since it should never be taken for granted that something is secure unless you or *someone you trust* has audited it. You basically mirrored my argument by assuming the opposite, and then tried to accuse *me* of engaging in a turf war. How cute.

    74. Re:Operative words by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      just like you are trying to say that I insisted somewhere that personally auditing all source code is the only way to be sure an open source app isn't malicious?

      Have you read the source to all the open source apps you use? If your answer is no, then the answer to your question is yes.

      You are directly contradicting yourself. Your arguing just went from ridiculous to just plain bizarre.

      I'm out, dude.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    75. Re:Operative words by nofx_3 · · Score: 1

      All it takes is one popular app, and a large number of Android users will have their data user/stolen/abused without permission.

      --
      Visualize Whirled Peas
    76. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation, please.

    77. Re:Operative words by Sancho · · Score: 1

      It's almost like different people have different opinions. What the hell is wrong with this place?!

    78. Re:Operative words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you go installing apps without looking at what it can possibly touch then that is your problem.

      Yeah, if there's one thing we've learned about security, it's that making the user the weak link in the chain works just fine.

    79. Re:Operative words by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      There's an app called TextFree that my daughter used to send and receive text messages. So it's wrong to say an app can't do that.

    80. Re:Operative words by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The real problem isn't that these apps HAVE the access. The problem is idiots installing Chase apps that were created by BobsSoftwareCompany and then getting surprised that it emailed back their username/password to Bob!

      The problem is more subtle than that.

      Say, there is a company that calls itself "Googe Inc", and publishes apps under that name in Android Market. You only need to look at comments there to see how many people have mistaken it for "Google", and I can't blame them (whenever those assholes release new updates and I see them in fresh release list on the Market, I always get tripped and have to double-check).

    81. Re:Operative words by nmos · · Score: 1

      It's amazing to me that Android users are so willing to trust total strangers in defense of their chosen platform. Such information, if published about Microsoft or Apple would have everyone lighting their torches, open source or not.

      Err.. that's exactly the situation with MS, Apple, and even Linux on PCs. There's nothing at all to stop you're email program from reading all of your personal data and sending copies to whereever it wants.

    82. Re:Operative words by biking42 · · Score: 1

      "You have to OK all the things that an app can touch before you install it" 'zactly. And there have been several apps I haven't installed for just such reason. Whether this is FUD or not I think the issue does need to be raised so those who might ignore what access the app "requires" will think before blindly clicking OK to install. I think too, apps that are requiring unnecessary access (why does a satellite tracking app need access to my call log???) need a better way to be exposed as questionable.

    83. Re:Operative words by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      After 2.2 you have to re-authorize it if permissions change, pre 2.2 you have to re-authorize it every update. Logcat is an optional tracing of info for devs, it wouldn't likely provide the info you would want/need. Something like that definitely could (and should) be built in though.

      --
      meep
    84. Re:Operative words by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      You make a good point but most good apps only take what they need, and the userbase actually complains about apps that overreach.

      --
      meep
    85. Re:Operative words by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      It's a snowball effect. I'd be surprised if it happened at the beginning. The question is what happens if Google et al pave the way for granting extensive permissions. Why does the Google Maps app need access to most of that?

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  3. What do you expect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a lot of spyware out there for real computers, too. That's what happens when people can install whatever they want to.

  4. Notifications by TyFoN · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And you are notified when installing in red letters exactly what the application has access to.
    News flash: 100% of your pc applications have access to your file system!

    1. Re:Notifications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up: The only people who should be surprised by this are people who don't bother thinking about what the bold red letters mean.

    2. Re:Notifications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      And you are notified when installing in red letters exactly what the application has access to.
      News flash: 100% of your pc applications have access to your file system!

      You need to be more sensational in this day and age. Let me give it a shot

      100% of web-connected Android phones can download Child Pornography!

      "AnonCWD is reporting that 100% of Android phones expose the user to child pornography. The Android web browser threat report details the security issues uncovered. Dozens of webpages were found to have the same type of access to child porngraphy as normal computers do, including access to CP films, drawings, and soundbytes."

      That's how you get the pageviews!

    3. Re:Notifications by Pharmboy · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not me, I want applications that can't read or write to files, OS API, video subsystem, ports or RAM. Programs that are properly designed to this are always safe. Every program that *doesn't* will always have some risk, no matter how well you code it. ;)

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    4. Re:Notifications by Itninja · · Score: 1

      Indeed. One cannot install the app without seeing that screen. Does the iPhone make the same disclosures?

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    5. Re:Notifications by daveime · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Unfortunately, any application locked down that hard wouldn't even be able to ask you for permission.

    6. Re:Notifications by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      100% of your pc applications have access to your file system!

      Dozens of apps were found to have the same type of access to sensitive information as known spyware does

      Dozens of children were found to have access to the same types of kitchen utensils that murderers use!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:Notifications by Kufat · · Score: 5, Funny

      A joke is trying to whoosh over your head.

      Cancel or allow?

    8. Re:Notifications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      ha ha ha hahahahahahahaha

      hahaha!!!

      haha, well done.

    9. Re:Notifications by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      What bugs me the most is that every programmer fails at these basic principals in safe programming. Even more importantly, these basic principals port to every known programming language.

      Demonstration below ( enclosed in quotes ):

      ""

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    10. Re:Notifications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "phone state and identity" is a permission that allows access to your phone number, imei or meid, and a lot more. All apps are granted this permission even if they don't ask you for it. Same goes for read/write access to your sd. Ever notice file managers that can access the sd but require no permissions? Google decided you didn't need to be informed about these permissions any more.

    11. Re:Notifications by hedwards · · Score: 1

      And newer phones with the auto-update support won't auto-update if there's been a change in the permissions that the program is trying to get. Assuming nobody finds a way around that, there's not really a whole lot more that could be done without going through an onerous task of extensively testing every app in the market. And ditching the option to install from elsewhere.

    12. Re:Notifications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cancel.

    13. Re:Notifications by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      At least your assembly programs that purely use CPU registers will be incredibly fast. :^P

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    14. Re:Notifications by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      You, sir, just completely made my morning. Wish I could mod you up.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    15. Re:Notifications by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      That's pretty sloppy coding, you didn't even include any comments or exit gracefully. Here is the a proper implementation in Perl:

      #!/usr/bin/perl -tw
      # Safe-T by Pharmboy.org Copyright (C)2010 Unauthorized use is PROHIBITED !!!!11
      #
      exit 0; #this makes the program exit.
      1;

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    16. Re:Notifications by jbezorg · · Score: 1

      I disagree.

      Your code is platform specific while mine runs equally well on all versions of windows and DOS. All versions of the Mac OS. All linux distros.

      Your code also is dependent of Perl being present and the possible exploits that could be present in that package. The requirement of Perl also means that the computer has to be on to run your code.

      --
      I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
    17. Re:Notifications by mindwhip · · Score: 1

      Blocking apps you don't like or don't work the way you think people should use their phones, and only allowing people to buy from one place, lets call it an 'app store'.

      I'm sure iSeen this somewhere before...

      --
      [The Universe] has gone offline.
    18. Re:Notifications by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Dozens of children were found to have access to the same types of kitchen utensils that murderers use!

      Kill the children before it's too late!

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    19. Re:Notifications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Programs that are properly designed to this are always safe."

      Yes, properly designed malware is quite safe for its intended users; not so much for you.

    20. Re:Notifications by Itninja · · Score: 1

      "There's a app for that" (tm)

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
  5. well well by smitty97 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Suddenly the walled garden approach where apps go through an approval process doesn't seem so bad.

    If only there was some phone manufacturer that did this..

    --
    mod me funny
    1. Re:well well by cduffy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Err --

      Android applications have flags indicating what they are and aren't allowed to do, and are cryptographically signed with those flags. What this study (presumably) did is just check which apps have which flags set.

      Thing is, when you-the-user install an app, you're told exactly which flags it has set, and given the opportunity to confirm or deny. In short -- if you're installing a lighter-flame gadget which says it's allowed to read your address book and connect to the Internet, and you click "OK", you deserve exactly what you get.

      (Also -- misbehaving developers can, and sometimes do, have their signing keys revoked).

    2. Re:well well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, by God lets not have users decide whether or not we can install an app that accesses our own data.

      Corporations know far more about what's appropriate for my data than I ever could...

    3. Re:well well by D'Sphitz · · Score: 1

      Wrong.

    4. Re:well well by Petron · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It still looks bad.

      As stated over and over here, you get warned in *BOLD RED LETTERS* "this app will want access to..." before you install. according to the article's posting, iPhone doesn't warn you.

      there has been quite a few apps I declined to install because... why does a little game want access to my call history? [Cancel Install]

      --
      if (it != oneThing) it = another;
    5. Re:well well by TSRX · · Score: 1

      Yeah I'm sure that walled-garden approach will filter out applications that expose your private data, like Facebook.

      Oh. Wait...

    6. Re:well well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably?

      From the "report":

      As a result, SMobile has incorporated patent pending technology to use application permissions and other identifying attributes to determine what an application can do and subsequently, identify Spyware and other malicious applications..

      Read the pdf; it's quite entertaining. Apparently listing a certain set of permission flags as "OMG spywarez!!1!" is now a "patent pending method".

    7. Re:well well by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Suddenly the walled garden approach where apps go through an approval process doesn't seem so bad."

      Yes, it does seem so bad. If it were just a question of certain apps being "approved," but users still having the option to install whatever they wanted, you might have a point (e.g. the repositories model for Linux distros). What Apple does is to say, "No, you cannot install that program, even if you want to, just because we said so! HAHAHAHA! No political cartoon apps for you!"

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    8. Re:well well by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      The "Android Marketplace" does a couple things automatically that solve this - without a walled garden approach. 1) when you install an app via the marketplace it TELLS YOU what the app has access too 2) User rating will inform users whether the app is worthless and 3) there is a report malware feature in the marketplace to inform Google to investigate the app. In other words - often the market can determine what stays and what doesn't.

      This is just more FUD against Android - all platforms have this exact same issue - even Apple (more than once I've read about an app that was approved and everything collecting data against Apple's own TOS - good example of this is that company that told us all about iPhone OS 4 metrics they collected from Apple's own development phones).

    9. Re:well well by Pojut · · Score: 1

      So they are trying to patent software.

      Yeah. Here's to hoping when the Supreme Court FINALLY releases a decision on Bilski v Kappos, that "pending" status is changed to "no way in hell" status.

    10. Re:well well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you refuse to install Android apps based on their unneeded permissions, you haven't installed anything besides Google's own apps. Ditto problem on Microsoft Windows. Applications used to assume admin privs. Now they embed a manifest flag requiring unneeded admin privs. Android apps do the same thing, minus sudo, because the phone needs to be rooted for sudo (or they would ask for it also).

      Besides, this is worthless protection for any non-geek. Believe me, they click 'install' without even reading the warnings. I see them do it. My own father went one step further: he read it once, realized it was bogus, and now completely ignores the warnings.

    11. Re:well well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, no need to go to Facebook for an example of how the walled garden doesn't protect your data.

      Nothing will protect you from a company that will misuse the data you give them. (And despite their claims, iDrive has not stopped this practice.)

      Oh...and your walled garden does not warn you about what the apps might be accessing like Android does. You just have to trust Apple to protect you instead of being allowed to use your own judgment.

    12. Re:well well by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      It dose seem bad. You are just too used to having someone else take care of you. Stand up for yourself.Take responsibility and enjoy freedom

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    13. Re:well well by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Most of the apps I have on Android (and I have a LOT installed) have very few or no permissions they don't need.

      The one permission that crops up randomly is coarse GPS positioning, for the ability to embed location targeted ads to support their free app.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    14. Re:well well by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      This is why the OS should let us manage these kinds of situations in a more graceful manner.

      Instead of having the choice of "allow app location info" or "don't install app" there should be a third choice - "install the app, but feed it bogus location info" - ditto for internet access or accessing contact info/etc.

      Ditto for running services - the OS should have an option to tell the app the service is running fine, and not run the service.

      Too much of android amounts to telling the user that the app misbehaves and asking them to accept it, or not use the app.

    15. Re:well well by johnw · · Score: 1

      there has been quite a few apps I declined to install because... why does a little game want access to my call history? [Cancel Install]

      Browsing the android market I've been struck by the sheer number of free apps which offer nothing but girly pictures. I'm not about to try installing any of them, but I can't help wondering what permissions they would ask for as they install.

      If they don't contain malware, then what's the point in them existing? Displaying a set of more or less pornographic images isn't a triumph of the coder's art, and they don't seem to do anything which you can't do anyway with the in-built web browser. You find dozens and dozens of such apps from the same few suppliers. I ask myself, "What's in it for them?"

    16. Re:well well by naturaverl · · Score: 1

      99% of the Android users assume that since they've gotten the phone from their mobile provider whom they somewhat trust, and the phone came preloaded with the Android market app, that they can trust Android Market as much as they trust their mobile provider.

      And what happens if that user has already installed the app by the time Google decides to remove it from the marketplace? They've still got the malware... Which they falsely trust is not malware.

    17. Re:well well by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Its not a triumph of the coder's art, but it does help to put food on the coder's table.

    18. Re:well well by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      User rating is pretty easy to game, especially if you don't actually look at the comments. Last app I installed, there were dozens of spam comments, all giving the app 5 stars. And while the Report Malware feature is nice, it does require that said user was intelligent enough to notice the app was malware in the first place.

    19. Re:well well by johnw · · Score: 1

      Not if he gives it away for no charge.

    20. Re:well well by Petron · · Score: 1

      it does if they sell the information the "Free girly pic" app collects.

      --
      if (it != oneThing) it = another;
    21. Re:well well by johnw · · Score: 1

      Which brings us back to the point which I made originally.

    22. Re:well well by azmodean+1 · · Score: 1

      99% of the Android users assume that since they've gotten the phone from their mobile provider whom they somewhat trust, and the phone came preloaded with the Android market app, that they can trust Android Market as much as they trust their mobile provider.

      They CAN trust Android Market as much as they trust their mobile provider... which is to say either "unfounded trust", or "not at all".

    23. Re:well well by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 1

      You're correct that the iPhone doesn't warn you.

      But the reason is that a normal iPhone app can't.
      Call history is not available to apps. Ever. So there's no warning.
      SMS history and ability to send/recieve/edit messages are also not available.
      Existing mail and mail accounts are not available.

      Whether you think any of these should be accessible is a different topic entirely.

      As far as I know, what is available is the following:
      1) Address book access.
      2) Location (a permission dialog appears when this info is requested, so even if you don't want to allow the app to know, you're supposed to still be able to use the rest of the app)
      3) a sandboxed folder, essentially a per-app home directory. No app can access outside that folder except...
      4) ... the camera roll folder.

    24. Re:well well by yyxx · · Score: 1

      Suddenly the walled garden approach where apps go through an approval process doesn't seem so bad.

      Except that Apple can't review/audit applications for security; they simply do not have the resources, and they can't even get much simpler criteria right.

      If only there was some phone manufacturer that did this.

      On iPhone, every application is a threat to your privacy. On Android, on the other hand, you can safely install any application that doesn't need permissions that cost you money or access your private data. In different words, on Android, 80% of applications on Android are totally safe by this survey and the remaining 20% are no more dangerous than on any other platform. On iPhone, 0% of your applications are safe, and 100% are dangerous.

  6. RE: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by D'Sphitz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My Evo tells me before I install an app what it will be able to do, I assume it works the same for all Android phones. It's hard to get worked up over an app that can access personal data, when you were told in big red letters that this app can access personal data, and you clicked ok anyway.

  7. Most misleading article ever by Fnkmaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A fifth of applications rely on *permissions* that you, the user, must explicitly grant when you install them, that *allow* them to access private information.

    That does not mean they do access that information, or put it to any sort of untoward use. Android practically screams at you when you install applications that need a bunch of permissions. Generally, sure, you ignore that if it just says "Read/write SD card" for example. But if something suspiciously asks for lots and lots of permissions, you might say to yourself "gee, this looks a little funny".

    If 10,000 other people have installed it and everybody rates it 5-stars and there are no issues mentioned with it on the web, you can probably guess that it's not doing anything nasty with your information.

    But the fact that Android extremely explicitly warns you about these permissions means that the only issue in my mind is there should be a more intense distinction in the UI between permissions like "Read/write to SD card" that lots of apps need, and "Access my contacts" or "Send text messages" which only a smaller number of apps need.

    Otherwise, this is basically a hatchet job.

    1. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, "hatchet job" would be a good way to describe this. They didn't even look at what the apps are supposed to do! For example, Handcent will need permissions to send and receive text messages, because, duh, it's a text messaging app. Social networking programs are going to need access to your contact info, and so forth.

    2. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not misleading. Do you understand what expose means? It doesn't mean to harvest that data, it means to make vulnerable in possibility.

      What I've found is that Android's permissions system is all but useless. Even simple apps like a text editor request full phone privileges 9/10 times. The only permission that works is for superuser, because that informs the user as it's happening.

    3. Re:Most misleading article ever by DikSeaCup · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If 10,000 other people have installed it and everybody rates it 5-stars and there are no issues mentioned with it on the web, you can probably guess that it's not doing anything nasty with your information.

      The way my mind works - when I read this, I couldn't help but think: "What, if any, kind of permissions warning do you get if the app is capable of going on to the market as you and rating itself 5 stars in your name?"

      Disclaimer for the humor impaired: Mind you this is more of a joke than a suggestion of something that's at all likely.

    4. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That does not mean they do access that information

      If they're not accessing that information, then why do they ask you to grant that permission? Surely the app makers know that their app will look less suspicious if they ask for fewer permissions? So I think it's fair to assume that they access the information.

    5. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/all but/nothing but/

    6. Re:Most misleading article ever by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Don't start telling people to use their own common sense! You FOOL! You are going to ruin it. Ok people. Listen up. I will run for office and will fight the evil Android Corp and make them lock everything down for you. I will pass laws to force them to protect you from yourselves. I will create a new government bureaucracy to approve every app. It will also create a new OS that can be protected from the user doing things that might be bad for them. I shall staff it with pros from Apple. You will love me for it.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    7. Re:Most misleading article ever by rednip · · Score: 1

      Most computer viruses rely on someone to install it, it doesn't mean that they aren't something to worry about. Also, while I'd have more confidence applications which are already popular, wide distribution is no sure indicator of 'clean code' (free from virus and stable).

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    8. Re:Most misleading article ever by jeffmeden · · Score: 2, Informative

      If 10,000 other people have installed it and everybody rates it 5-stars and there are no issues mentioned with it on the web, you can probably guess that it's not doing anything nasty with your information.

      The way my mind works - when I read this, I couldn't help but think: "What, if any, kind of permissions warning do you get if the app is capable of going on to the market as you and rating itself 5 stars in your name?"

      Disclaimer for the humor impaired: Mind you this is more of a joke than a suggestion of something that's at all likely.

      His argument was laughable. You make the exact point that's needed; there is nothing to stop 10,000 genuinely happy, completely ignorant users from "loving" an app that makes fart noises while it secretly gathers contact lists or does other nefarious things completely behind the scenes. The users won't know there's a problem until it's too late; their private data will be in the wild. Then, all the 1-scores or "report app" dings that the app gets won't get their data back.

      Assuming that a gaggle of non-experts can give you a good assessment of the security of the app is ludicrous. Maybe, if there were a "score by developers" rating where other registered devs that have looked at the code and given it a brief audit for security purposes, it would put my mind at ease a *little*.

    9. Re:Most misleading article ever by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      If they wanted to be informative, they would've actually dumped the system logs on the phone and checked what the apps really are doing with the permissions they're given. This isn't at all hidden from the user if they know where to look, unlike say a good worm infecting a Windows PC.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    10. Re:Most misleading article ever by Fourier · · Score: 1

      I don't agree that this is a hatchet job. I am concerned by the volume of highly-rated applications on the Android Market which require permissions that should be unnecessary. As you point out, the Android platform enumerates the requested permissions in a very visible way, which is great. The problem is cultural: users do not question these permission requests as much as they should.

      I would really like to be able to selectively deny certain permissions to applications.

    11. Re:Most misleading article ever by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Yup - I'd go a step further. What this article is saying is that only 20% of the apps on android really leverage the fact that they're running on android and make use of the resulting convergences.

      Lots of apps in the market are contact managers, and shockingly enough they need access to your contacts. Lots of those apps are email programs, and those need access to your email and your contacts! Lots of apps show information relevant to your location, and they need to know your location. News at 11!

    12. Re:Most misleading article ever by weicco · · Score: 1

      I think both you and TFA are right. But what scares me as a former phone app dev is this (from the fine article)

      make calls and send text messages without the mobile user doing anything

      Some good amount of Windows malware is explicitly installed by the user. If you make this same mistake in phone and install malware X you might end up with hefty phone bill. The phone OS, no matter if it's Android, Symbian, iOS, Windows or whatever, should at least ask user if it's okay for app X to make the call or send text message.

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
    13. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and nobody ever fell for the old "install this video codec to see free p0rnz0rs!" trick on Windows, either. Expecting users to grok a list of permissions is likely asking a bit too much.

      For bonus points, how many of the "it's not a big deal" posters on this thread eagerly point out the "threat" posed by every OS X "virus" that works the same way? I'm guessing most...

    14. Re:Most misleading article ever by Shihar · · Score: 1

      The danger is much less than that. If you have a fart noise app and it asks for your GPS location, it will be rated down into dust. The Android Market could use more than a little work (but so could the iPhone market... which also sucks), but the users do do a good job of rating into oblivion apps that asks for more than they need. A great example is the Last.FM app... which for the record is freaking wonderful. It was getting pummeled in the ratings because it asked permission for your GPS. The author of it had to frantically update the description stating that it was only a functionality that let it locate nearby concerts of bands you like.

      All of that said, I do wish that the market is a little more organized and that it gave developers a chance to explain under each notification why they need the access. Both of the phone markets right now, frankly suck. I use third party review sites almost exclusively to find new apps.

    15. Re:Most misleading article ever by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

      No. For example, ADW.Launcher gets permission to access phone/dialer functions. But it doesn't actually dial your phone itself. Since ADW.Launcher is open source, you can verify that it isn't doing anything funny for yourself.

      I'm guessing there's a good reason it asks for that permission, as it probably is simply an overly-broad permission within the Android OS. My point is assuming that every app that accesses the phone/dialer system isn't necessarily dialing Fiji and running up your international phone bill.

      But - outside of a few system critical functions where it's hard to tell why these permissions are requested, like launcher replacements, virtual keyboards, contact managers, email programs, and text messaging programs, if an app asks for a suspicious permission, people call them out pretty rapidly.

      I think the system could be improved with a bit of simplification, but it's much better than no permissions system at all.

    16. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have your nanny corporate overlord. For me I'll brave this wild west of an open system.

      It's no secret something is wrong when you have to acknowledge "Yes, fart app, you can read all my personal contacts" before installing it. Is it perfect? No, of course not, but don't expect it to be. Is the iPhone iTunes iApp store perfect? No, but people do expect it to be.

    17. Re:Most misleading article ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it only takes 1 complaint and the app is investigated then removed from market. also the example you gave would be obvious because such an app shouldn't need any access to anything.

  8. I've got your malware right here by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1, Funny

    Which apps require the BRICK permission, and do any of those conceal their intent from the user?

    1. Re:I've got your malware right here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For anyone who thinks the parent is joking:

      android.Manifest.permission.BRICK - Required to be able to disable the device (very dangerous!).

      I've always wondered exactly what classes and methods that permission enables...

      (posting AC because the parent was worth modding Funny to other Android devs)

    2. Re:I've got your malware right here by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Remote bricking is very useful if you want to disable a phone if its lost or stolen.

      You could also have a deadman's switch app that bricks the phone if its not activated with a password every so often (useful if the phone's thief knows enough to shield it from SMS messages).

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    3. Re:I've got your malware right here by djdanlib · · Score: 1

      Good one!

      What happens when some not-so-savvy user gets an app, and the developer's info about the app says "Ignore the warning, that's a bug we're fixing in the next version"... hmmmm

    4. Re:I've got your malware right here by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      What happens when some not-so-savvy user gets an app, and the developer's info about the app says "Ignore the warning, that's a bug we're fixing in the next version"... hmmmm

      The not so savvy user 'ignores' the warning and clicks cancel, since that's ignoring to a not so savvy user, right?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  9. Needs to be clarified by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whenever you install an application on Android, you're given a list of permissions the application wants to have in order to run, including accessing your data and making phone calls. You have to explicitly agree to this list before the app is installed. Is CNET saying that a fifth of Android apps can get your data, despite those permissions not appearing in the list? Because if they're not, this is a pointless "Well, duh" story: the user was told what the application is doing. If they just breeze through and click "OK" when that's clearly inappropriate (i.e., a tip calculator really shouldn't be requesting access to your call log), that's their damn problem.

    --
    Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
    1. Re:Needs to be clarified by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind that they're meedja types, so they and all their meedja friends have iPhones, and they've never actually seen an Android handset.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:Needs to be clarified by ADRA · · Score: 1

      This may be a redundant data on tech savy Slashdotters, and I must say that the pre-installation notification on security is pretty good in android, it does make the less technical people reading CNET think twice about installing a 'trojan' app for example (hypothetical) 'cute girls in bikini's 15' which has access to location, phone state, wifi, phone calls, etc..

      --
      Bye!
    3. Re:Needs to be clarified by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows Vista had the same problem - if you ask permission once at install time, for every application, the average user is simply going to get accustomed to clicking through "yes" and "run as administrator" and other bad user behavior. If the OS does nothing to prevent users from developing these habits, and exposes sensitive information through these commonly clicked-through apps, then it's the fault of the OS design, not the users, who have every right to be dumb.

      Think about it - if a company knows its target audience is not technically equipped to understand security issues, and the company does little to help, is it a good platform for that target audience? Android may be good to tech-savvy users, but to the average folks, the security could use a little tightening.

  10. Smobile systems has developed technology... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THIS IS AN SMOBILE AD!

    1. Re:Smobile systems has developed technology... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SMobile Security Shield, $29.99 seems like a fair price to protect yourself from the problem SMobile made up ;)

  11. HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by schon · · Score: 1, Insightful

    1. So because something has the ability to do something, that means that it DOES do it?

    Logic. Submitter fails it.

    2. When installing apps that have the ability to expose private data, the OS explicitly tells you beforehand and asks if you're sure.

    While unscientific, everybody I know with an Android phone takes these warnings seriously. Yes, you still have the dancing bunnies problem, but in my experience most people don't expect a phone to work like a desktop, and the security awareness is higher as a result.

    Congratulations on a flamebait article though.

    1. Re:HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, you have redefined the meaning of the word 'expose.'

      expose
      -verb
      1. to lay open to danger, attack, harm, etc.: to expose soldiers to gunfire; to expose one's character to attack.

      Maybe you should look into reading a book before critiquing a person's writing. You remind me of the retards on Slashdot who assume stealing is synonymous with theft.

    2. Re:HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Too much faith in Cnet, he is guilty of.

      It was the Cnet article that made the leap from the report, which stated "x number of apps have the ability to access information in a way that could be harmful to keeping it private", all the way to "20 percent of android apps expose your private information". Actually, both of these things are true since they never really said to what the information was exposed to (in this case, it's simply the internals of a third party app).

      Seems like you fail at over-reaching. Smobile started it, Cnet ran with it, Slashdot wound it up into a flame-filled frenzy, and you slam dunked it with "1. So because something has the ability to do something, that means that it DOES do it?" which no one ever specifically said was the case (they said it was possible).

    3. Re:HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by schon · · Score: 1

      Congratulations, you have redefined the meaning of the word 'expose.'

      Bullshit. You're the idiot who's trying to do that.

      to expose soldiers to gunfire; to expose one's character to attack.

      So you're claiming that it's possible you can expose soldiers to gunfire even when nobody is shooting a gun? You're a fucking moron.

      Maybe you should look into reading a book before critiquing a person's writing.

      You need to take your own advice. Because you seriously lack reading comprehension.

      You remind me of the retards on Slashdot who assume stealing is synonymous with theft.

      Wow, an ad-hominem attack and straw man rolled into one. Congrats. you remind me of the article submitter.

    4. Re:HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by schon · · Score: 1

      It was the Cnet article that made the leap from the report

      OK, CNet made the leap - but the article submitter didn't bother to correct it.

      Actually, both of these things are true since they never really said to what the information was exposed to (in this case, it's simply the internals of a third party app).

      You're saying that the claim is true because an app can expose data to itself!??!?!

      Does that not seem just a little bit fucking stupid to you?

      Seems like you fail at over-reaching.

      No, you fail logic, just like Cnet and the article submitter.

    5. Re:HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pro-tip: the examples in dictionary definitions aren't meant to be taken as exact use-case criteria.

      Since you are semantically challenged and unable to learn what expose means -- something a 5th-grader already knows well -- I will proceed to list the missing definitions from the above source.

      2. to lay open to something specified: to expose oneself to the influence of bad companions.
      3. to uncover or bare to the air, cold, etc.: to expose one's head to the rain.
      4. to present to view; exhibit; display: The storekeeper exposed his wares.
      5. to make known, disclose, or reveal (intentions, secrets, etc.).
      6. to reveal or unmask (a crime, fraud, impostor, etc.): to expose a swindler.
      7. to hold up to public reprehension or ridicule (fault, folly, a foolish act or person, etc.).
      8. to desert in an unsheltered or open place; abandon, as a child.
      9. to subject, as to the action of something: to expose a photographic plate to light.
      10. expose oneself, to exhibit one's body, esp. one's genitals, publicly in an immodest or exhibitionistic manner.

      More references for Your Laziness. A poor Wiktionary link. A better Merriam-Webster link.

      Now. I expose you as a simpleton, brain exposed for lack of wits; exposed to ridicule; a man that exposes himself in front of small children.

    6. Re:HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXPOSE!=EXPOSE by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Preview button hard to find? If I take a stab at what you meant, you again tried to insist that someone said "the data has been exposed to malicious parties". This is not what anyone has yet said.

      Let me take one last chance at explaining something that is apparently not as simple as it seems. The data is still where it belongs (on your phone) but the opportunity for a breach is at the mercy of the app authors; a few errant lines of code in an otherwise innocuous app could result in a complete leak of all the private data on the phone. This is what they are saying, in an admittedly sensationalist way. The app creation and installation process, as it is today, is ripe for a clever malware author to take advantage of less educated users. To insist that the problem is nonexistent and merely "flawed logic" is ignorant to the extreme.

  12. Re:First Post! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Funny

    Cock sucking faggots! - Sent from my Android -

    It would have been funny if you has said "Sent from your Android"

  13. I knew what I was getting into. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In fairness all the apps they list have to ask for permission to preform any of the activities they mention during the install phase. So its not like people could accidentally install one of these, probably just a third party who wants to spy on the user for whatever reason. Additionally even though the permissions they are talking about can be used for nefarious purposes, 99% or the apps that request them do so for good reason (one of the apps in the paper preforms functions similar to apples find my phone service), and I suspect that they still count those apps in the 20% of insecure apps count.

    I guess it comes down to a choice between security and openness, I personally prefer the freedom to do whatever I want with my devices. It falls on me not to allow people I don't trust access to my phone, or indeed any of my stuff. Admittedly a lot of those apps won't function on the iPhone but at the same time they lose a lot of useful functionality. There are also instances where Apples tight grip on the app store will benefit the customer (such as if any malware ever shows up on it) and times when it will put them at a disadvantage, so chose your poison.

    One feature that probably should be added to Android is if an app requests certain security features (perhaps any of the orange ones) then the user would have to authenticate to install that app. At least then you would avoid people installing this specific type of spyware behind your back.

  14. Summary is wrong and trolling by recoiledsnake · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the summary:

    5% of the apps were found to have the ability to make calls, and 2% can send text messages, without the mobile user doing anything."

    Err, the mobile user was explicitly informed of this BEFORE the software is install. Don't believe me? Check this screenshot http://www.taosoftware.co.jp/en/android/wakeupcallmaker/img/wakeupcallmaker_install.png

    I guess someone has an axe to grind against Android (hint, hint) just because there were stories earlier about the iPhone revealing the exact location of the users to applications and ads.

    --
    This space for rent.
    1. Re:Summary is wrong and trolling by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      So why doesn't the phone prompt you when the app first attempts to do something with these, like the iPhone does?

    2. Re:Summary is wrong and trolling by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      It's possible you won't be using the App at the time.

      I'm pretty sure one of the permissions you can grant is "Wake my phone from sleep". How do you create a good UI for when a weather alert comes in and your phone needs to ask you permission if it can wake up?

    3. Re:Summary is wrong and trolling by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, but it's hard to judge the impact of a disclosure from the nature of the information. That's a major bug in our conception of privacy, particularly in the US. It's not *what* the information is, but how it is used that matters.

      I'm reasonably expert when it comes to information privacy issues, but even I don't feel like I fully understand the consequences of granting each permission. I sometimes contact an app developer when an app requests permissions that don't seem right. Usually it has something to do with advertising revenue, but that really just shifts the uncertainty elsewhere.

      What the user ought to be asked is not assent to fine grained permissions like "read phone state and identity", but rather usage scenarios like "transmit my identity and application usage to an advertiser for calculating reimbursement to the app developer" that implies a package of fine grained permissions. Furthermore, any party in the transaction should be contractually limited to those uses. A developer who collects or provides usage data beyond what is needed to calculated reimbursement should be liable. An advertiser who sells the data to credit reporting agencies should be liable.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  15. Submission: iFlameWar, Episode n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why hello, WrongSizeGlass of the 'gives iPads to web designer's family' fame. Whilst the submission may be interesting, I cannot avoid querying your motives. But putting that aside, I'm not that convinced with the white paper either.

    Smobile systems, the authors of said whitepaper, sell security software for mobile devices. They therefore have the clearest possible vested interest in producing documents that overstate whatever they can in order to trigger alarmist histrionics. All they seem to have done here is an 'automated analysis' checking out which apps have permissions that could allow them to perform certain actions. They haven't apparently chosen to take the useful step of checking what proportion of apps actually do, meaning that what they've done is the equivalent of saying:

    "2.1 million Americans work in payroll or accounting. This means that up to 1.5% of all Americans could be involved in corporate accounting fraud! Concerned? Buy our Anti-Fraud(TM) corporate services!"

    Virtually meaningless.

    A decent review from the Register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/23/android_security/

    1. Re:Submission: iFlameWar, Episode n by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      Dear AC,
      I submitted this story because I found it interesting, not because I agreed with its conclusions nor those of the 'threat report'. I also attempted to submit the 'iOS/Safari gives away your location' story yesterday but I had the same source/URL as someone who had already submitted it so it was rejected. Keep in mind I only passed along the link and copy & pasted content from the CNet story. If you think someone is being biased you should point an anonymous finger at CNet or the folks at smobilesystems. You should have submitted your decent review as a submission rather than just dropping it in a post.

      Are all security vulnerabilities being exploited? Of course not. That's true for Android, Linux, Apple and even Microsoft. Had they changed the name from 'Android' to 'Apple' you would have been standing on your anonymous soapbox deriding Apple for it. Yes, Android alerts users and requires their approval when these apps are installed just like Apple alerts users and requires their approval before any location data is provided to an app. Does it mean that either or both platforms are insecure because they can provide this type of information when the user blindly agrees? Yes and no. If the app uses it for the wrong purpose then yes. Can and 'do' are completely separate things. The same holds true for Windows when it asks if it's OK for an app to run, etc.

      I've submitted plenty of stories (my favorites were 20 Worst Superheroes and Tactical-Nuclear-Penguin-Beer, about half of which have been accepted. That doesn't mean I endorse them, it only means I thought others might find them interesting too.

      Though I did give an iPad to my web design's kids for 'half Christmas' it doesn't make me biased. My posts are usually opinionated but fair, usually pro Linux, pro or anti Apple (depending on the subject) and usually (but not always) anti Microsoft. Though I'm sure you already know that if you're following my posts enough to quote from them.

    2. Re:Submission: iFlameWar, Episode n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear WrongSizeGlass,

      Keep in mind I only passed along the link and copy & pasted content from the CNet story.

      This, precisely this, is the problem (and I know it's not unique to you; this article just happened to be the metaphorical last straw, for which apologies). What's wrong with engaging brain and critical facilities before copy-and-pasting to Slashdot? I am aware that Slashdot is not an academic journal, but that doesn't mean that submitters should rigorously adhere to the lowest possible standard of submission. There are interesting discussions to be had about mobile security models and relevant research efforts, some of which are actually happening in these comments. I would suggest that those discussions would be less fragmented if the OP had been more reasoned.

      You should have submitted your decent review as a submission rather than just dropping it in a post.

      No. Why not? Because not every three-paragraph story needs to waste front-page space on Slashdot. The OP is not presented in a way that suggests that critical thought has been applied to it. If other people have presented it differently, that's great, but it doesn't change the fact that the white paper is hardly in itself worthy of one Slashdot article, given that without presenting relevant background information, it's essentially an attempt at marketing through flamebait. Far less does Slashdot require a whole collection of stories detailing obvious objections, rebuttals, etc.

      As a reviewer for comp sci confs, I'd be unlikely to recommend the white paper for publication even in a tiny regional event without requiring major changes (ie. additional context, some review of the effectiveness of the method, critical analysis). That's not because it's bad. It's because it's about a third of the way through an interesting piece of research, and the author(s) would be better off completing the other two-thirds of their argument before publication. Perhaps the method they describe actually has significant predictive value, why not, but in that case, the authors should take the time to finish their argument.

      As for following your posts - far from it. The post I quoted from was from Wednesday June 23, @01:48PM. This story was posted on Wednesday June 23, @03:00PM, meaning that I'd just read your comment about scattering iPads as largesse when this story appeared, and it wasn't an extraordinary feat of long-term memory to link them together given how closely they were juxtaposed. I imagine it's just one of those unfortunate coincidences.

  16. Look to the source by TheBogBrushZone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This report is hardly independent. If you ignore the CNET reporter looking for controversial pulp to post on a blog you'll find that this report comes from smobilesystems, a little-known mobile security company who conveniently have a new piece of Android security software to sell that will stop all these non-existent rogue spyware apps. You can argue all you want that users install these apps with full knowledge and consent. They know that it's BS; they just want to use FUD to convince the unwary and paranoid that their software (which if it actually does anything, probably just checks the installed apps against a package name blacklist) will keep them safe from an imaginary raging torrent of malware on the Android platform.

    --
    And behold, a command prompt and he who sat upon it, his name was shutdown and -h 3:11 followed with him
    1. Re:Look to the source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to Androlib, I've pasted below the list of permissions requested by Smobile system's own programs on the android market. Looks quite similar to the list "that an application can request to be allowed access to sensitive information or services which could be used maliciously." on page 5 of their report.

              * android.permission.INTERNET
              * android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE
              * android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION
              * android.permission.ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION
              * android.permission.READ_SMS
              * android.permission.WRITE_SMS
              * android.permission.RECEIVE_SMS
              * android.permission.WRITE_CONTACTS
              * android.permission.READ_CONTACTS
              * android.permission.WRITE_CALENDAR
              * android.permission.CAMERA
              * android.permission.VIBRATE
              * android.permission.PROCESS_OUTGOING_CALLS
              * android.permission.RECEIVE_BOOT_COMPLETED
              * android.permission.WAKE_LOCK

  17. user granted it by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    if the apps have access to sensitive information, it's because the app requested the information and the user granted it. every android app must declare the set of permissions it requires, and that list is presented to the user *before* they install the app.

    also, as other posters have pointed out, the fact that an app has access to sensitive data does not mean it exposed the data.

  18. SHOCK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "SMobile Systems concluded in its Android market threat report. "

        "SMS Spy was labeled and is detected by SMobile’s Security Shield as spyware."

    SMobile sells a $30 andriod app and releases a FUD whitepaper. ...

    PROFIT!

  19. So it's the perfect platform... by shikaisi · · Score: 1

    ... for Chatroulette?

    --
    No left turn unstoned.
  20. bogus interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The CNET interpretation of the study is bogus. It counts every app requesting full call permissions as potential spyware phoning home, and every app requesting full address book access as potential data-collecting trojan. Following this reasoning, every Windows program -- which can do pretty much anything with the Data on your PC data -- dangerous piece of potential malware.

    Android apps may request permissions only in bundles. Just because an app requests, say, full address book access for updating some address data, doesn't mean it spys on your contacts. It doesn't even mean it actually uses the granted API calls at all.

    1. Re:bogus interpretation by ZenDragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I am not going to spread the FUD and agree with wholly with the statements of vulnerability, I would have to ask why ANY app would need "Full Call Permissions" in the first place? Furthermore, why would android allow that at all? Theres no reason why any of these apps need some of the access that they are requesting. For example; why does Dictionary.com request "Phone Calls" access? Im not one to cry foul without proof, but I do believe there does need to be some oversight in the Android market to prevent apps from requesting unnecessary access.

    2. Re:bogus interpretation by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Phone dialer replacement apps sure would need that. How the hell else would it make calls?

      Does dictionary.com need phone call ability or just Phone Call: Status? Many apps need the latter so they can end themselves when a call comes in, resume after, stop doing whatever they were doing.

    3. Re:bogus interpretation by Shihar · · Score: 1

      A lot of the "phone" one that you see is "phone status". Phone status just lets an app properly pause when a call comes in. Even dancing bunnies is going to have a hard time doing something evil because it knows you are now on the phone and it is in the background. Frankly, I think they shouldn't even have that one listed with the scary ones like GPS location. Almost all apps need some way of dealing with a phone call besides having the OS shove the app aside.

  21. Apple FUD by mpapet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The story is a PR plant by one of Apple's minions. They are taking a big negative with the iPhone, (no access to some phone functions) and turning it into a win for Apple.

    To be fair, Apple's minion doesn't hire the story out and then attempt to sell it to the media. A few weeks ago Jobs claimed the Droid was a porn magnet or something like that... This is just more of the same ideological offensive.

    The way this works is Apple's PR people go around making the case for their product, in those discussions are carefully constructed factoids like "their apps *can* do Bad Things (TM) with your private data!" Then some enterprising writer fills in the rest of the FUD perfectly willing to blow-up the half-truth in exchange for a closer seat in the Jobs Reality Distortion Field.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Apple FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you've done it. The black helicopters are coming for you, man!

    2. Re:Apple FUD by JonJ · · Score: 1

      Slashdot needs a -1 Crackpot mod.

      --
      -- Linux user #369862
    3. Re:Apple FUD by johnw · · Score: 1

      A few weeks ago Jobs claimed the Droid was a porn magnet

      Surely that's a plus point - no?

    4. Re:Apple FUD by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Your hypothesis sounds reasonable, but in this case, it's not Apple. It's a company marketing an "anti-malware" package for any smartphone they can convince people is unsafe. You can see why they might want you to think Android is more vulnerable than it is.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    5. Re:Apple FUD by revscat · · Score: 1

      Wow man, you really need to turn the conspiracy dial down a bit. ...You know what? Scratch that. You, personally, need to turn the volume up to 11. You are the best of Slashdot, a little ball of completely unfettered hate. Therefore, I nominate you King of Slashdot. You are everything /. aspires to: mindlessly conspiratorial towards anything that can even remotely be tied to Apple. And your hatred -- really deep of hatred -- Steve "That Motherfucker" Jobs... I don't think you could have condensed more haterboi memes into one message if you'd tried. And you even got modded to five. Let's see... Alter Relationship... "Friend", "Yup, positive". Aaand done. HERE LET IT BE KNOWN TO ALL WHO WILL LISTEN: MPAPET (761907) IS THE NEW KING OF SLASHDOT. AS IT IS WRITTEN LET IT BE SO. SO SAY WE ALL.

    6. Re:Apple FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting. I assume Apple is working in association with the Rand Corporation, and the Reverse Vampires?

    7. Re:Apple FUD by yyxx · · Score: 1

      They are taking a big negative with the iPhone, (no access to some phone functions) and turning it into a win for Apple.

      Except the iPhone's dirty little secret is that, whereas only 20% of Android apps can access private data, 100% of iPhone apps can do so in principle, and you aren't told about which ones actually do.

      For the miniscule amount of money Apple makes on the average iPhone app, they can't possibly do a meaningful security audit, in particular on something has complex and hard to audit as Objective-C software (where pointers and dynamic method calls let you hide just about anything from any simple security audit if you want to).

    8. Re:Apple FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The story is a PR plant by one of Apple's minions

      Just like all the negative stories about Apple are PR plants by Google's minions.

      I'm sure you agree.

  22. It's just information folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the point of the article was to inform the audience that caution should be exercised when installing apps from the android market. Almost the same as caution should be exercised when installing software off of the internet onto a PC. Just because an app notifies you that it's spyware doesn't mean that it's not a good idea to inform users to watch out. People have gotten so used to just clicking through dialog boxes without reading and this article might be a good way to get people to slow down and really watch out for the crap they install on their android devices.

    Funny, I haven't seen many articles like this for apps on the iTunes/iPhone app store. Just sayin...

  23. I wanted to install an app... by Rhaban · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wanted to install an app that managed sms, and it asked for permission to access my messages!

    It goes without saying that I immediately canceled the installation.

    1. Re:I wanted to install an app... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You idiot!

  24. A misleading slashadvertisement by Random2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you actually RTFAs' source, you'll see that this smobile systems company is using these statistics to try and sell a dependency checker.

    Also, I saw no mention that these 'leaks' are derived from sources other than what the user allowed.

    In short, Not news.

    --
    "Our goal each year should be to increase the number of goals we set for ourselves!"
  25. This is the problem with lamescream media by bteed · · Score: 1

    The whitepaper that they referenced is really pretty objective, it makes all the same points that commenters are making here (despite trying to sell you their brilliant new malware detector). A reporter reads it, uses a line or two from it, and makes a scary story. I have to give them credit for linking it the original source, though, sometimes you have to go digging through Google to find out how much they're really telling you.

  26. Sixth major app found to expose data as well by noidentity · · Score: 3, Funny

    I was using my Android today, and I discovered that it was exposing a huge amount of private data. Basically, it was transmitting a digital copy of all sounds that it picked up from its microphone, to some remote party. I couldn't believe this. More amazingly, it was triggered very simply: just dial a phone number and hit Talk. Sometimes it even occurred when I hit Talk just after the phone beeped. Nothing more was necessary. I can't believe they let this slip through.

    1. Re:Sixth major app found to expose data as well by Dunega · · Score: 1

      Yes! We must put an end to the phone call application on all of these phones! They are a major source of privacy leaks!
      Well done. :)

    2. Re:Sixth major app found to expose data as well by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      This would have been funny if not for your epically bad subject line, which suggests that you thought the article was about *five* apps that expose data.

    3. Re:Sixth major app found to expose data as well by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Bah, I didn't read the article or much of the summary. I've never even had a cellphone.

    4. Re:Sixth major app found to expose data as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wouldn't have that problem with an iPhone.

    5. Re:Sixth major app found to expose data as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My iPhone tries to do that sometimes, but AT&T has some kind of firewall in place that will stop the data leak before it can finish

  27. Watch out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch out for apps that request more access than necessary for it's functions. If I need to install a News Reader app and while installing the Android OS tells me it requires access to my Call log, Ability to make calls and what not - I don't install the app.

    And I find that only a few apps in the Market place ask for reasonable permissions. Most ask for way more than is strictly necessary. So be warned.

    1. Re:Watch out by takev · · Score: 1

      Which means, more a more apps will start to request all the permissions, because everyone was ignoring the install warning anyway. slippery slope and all that.

      It would have been better if the phone scans the application for which library/system calls it makes during install and show a warning what it actually does (and make a permission list of that, so that programs that rewrite their code won't be able to get access anyway), instead of letting the developer decide the permission list himself.

      Or do like apple and warn (the first time) when an application uses a functionality, and allow the user to allow and deny a certain functionality, while keeping the rest of the program functional without that feature. Or better, do both.

  28. 20% 100% by yyxx · · Score: 0, Troll

    First of all, 20% have the ability to access private data on Android. Now, 20% is less than 100%, which is what you effectively get on other smartphone platforms. On the iPhone, effectively 100% of apps have access to your private data.

    Now, those 20% of applications don't "expose" private data, they have access to it. Most of them do because they need it. Some do because the programmer screwed up and asked for more than he needed; such apps tend to get punished in the ratings.

    Android has a good architecture, security and otherwise: it's clear, simple, and actually alerts people to what their applications are doing. iPhone/iOS is primitive and obsolete in comparison.

  29. In other news... by demonbug · · Score: 1

    80% of Android apps not working as designed.

  30. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by webdog314 · · Score: 1

    Granted, the average Android user is a step above the average Facebook user, BUT, that's pretty much exactly what Facebook apps do and the majority of users click right on through. While we might wish that the general public understood the most basic tenets of information security, they don't, and the Android marketplace is, after all, for (predominantly) the general public (or at least the business side of it, which is only slightly better when it comes to IS).

  31. Nothing against Android... by msauve · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...in particular. They're just selling anti-malware software for smartphones. They'll be glad to sell you protection for your RIM, WinMo, or Symbian phone, too. They're also glad to point out the danger you're in with those phones, too - lacking their product.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Nothing against Android... by JumpDrive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was wondering how many were going to get to this level of information.
      Poor Elinor Mills, doesn't have anything to write about, so she takes copy from the marketing department of a company, summarizes it and calls it reporting.
      She was just doing us a favor, making sure that we knew about an advertisement.

      I am sickened to think that people believe this is reporting or worthwhile blogging.
      There is no information until you have verified their claims or can allow somebody to verify the claims. SMobile scanned the database of program information and concluded that 20% of android apps should make us panic. Then Smobile told us not to worry , they have the solution and would let anyone have the solution if you bought their product. God forbid that in this whole circle of marketing they should actually pass along worthwhile information.


      I would just like to note that 70% of iPhone apps don't have spyware included.

  32. FUD by gedw99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fear, Uncertainty & doubt is all this article is doing
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt.

    As many people have pointed out the security permissions model in android is very good.

    you cant have fantastic apps without allowing them access to other data.
    And so thats why the security permission authorization screens are there.

    Its so dumb this article, because you cant have your cake and eat it too.

    It pisses me off when journalists write a piece like this LL because it gets headlines.
    Hey CNet, get a life and stop taking backhanders from Apple or Microsoft. Just a ridiculous article in the first place.

    1. Re:FUD by avatar139 · · Score: 1

      Fear, Uncertainty & doubt is all this article is doing
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt.

      As many people have pointed out the security permissions model in android is very good.

      you cant have fantastic apps without allowing them access to other data.
      And so thats why the security permission authorization screens are there.

      Its so dumb this article, because you cant have your cake and eat it too.

      It pisses me off when journalists write a piece like this LL because it gets headlines.
      Hey CNet, get a life and stop taking backhanders from Apple or Microsoft. Just a ridiculous article in the first place.

      It seems to me that expecting the average consumer to know or care about security settings in their applications is something I find to be unrealistic at best.

      As far as most consumers are concerned if you want to use a piece of software you have to agree to whatever terms or conditions the software requires you to in order to use and way too many people I've seen will simply click install no matter what the software asks to be able to access because they see any alternative but to do so in order to use it and don't know (or choose to not care because they don't see an alternative in order to be able to use the software) about the possible security consequences to themselves.

      I would kind of equate to clicking the agree button on a software EULA in order to install it, as the more you do it, the more you stop caring about what the terms are because you have to accept them in order to use the software you want to use so most people just choose not to even bother reading what they're agreeing to because they can't change it and they don't want to worry themselves (and they don't want to OD on reading that much legalize ;)

      Seriously though, how many people do you know even here on Slashdot who read the EULA for every piece of software they install on their computers/laptops/phones/etc?

      As for your whole blame Apple and Microsoft for the article rant, I haven't seen anyone provide any evidence that either of them were involved in the publication of this article; it was actually quoted in the article as being from a security software company blog so I love how you go on this hysterical rant about Apple and Microsoft being behind this to spread FUD when it seems to me the only one spreading FUD here is you by pushing the idea that either of them were behind this article...

      --
      I'm honest enough to admit I lie to myself.
  33. 80% of people retweet hysterical headlines! by rcnut · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately it looks like this article has already set off a bit of a firestorm in twitterspace, and I doubt that many of those people actually read the report and understood it. That would take more time than is allowed to post 140 characters.

  34. Android and IOS are dead, long live Blackberry OS by kbdd · · Score: 1

    The more I read about Android and iApple OS, the more I like my Blackberry :)

  35. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by Chees0rz · · Score: 1

    I find myself becoming desensitized to these warnings... Especially if I am updating, rather than installing for the first time. I used to make sure the "features/warnings" matched up with my expectations of the App; now, I either don't care, or it's a case of- "I don't think it means what you think it means"

    The fault is on me. But it's an easy habit to slip into.

  36. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by Issarlk · · Score: 1

    Then obviously, for the greater good of all, we should forbid every Android App from reading the adress book, or GPS data, or sim data. This would result in a new concept, I will name it the DumbPhone. It would be perfectly safe for the average Joe as the only app able to run on it would be fart generators and minesweeper. We don't let anybody play with dangerous explosives, or drugs because they might harm themselves or other people ; why should we let anybody use dangerous Smartphones ?

  37. Do you really want me to say those 4 words?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I TOLD YOU SO!

    This is why Mr. Jobs is so controlling over his iPhone. I'll never make the switch. I'm always gonna have an iPhone, just as long as Apple keeps making them. I feel safe.

  38. 95% of users are users... by kbdd · · Score: 1

    Studies have shown that 99.5% of users click on OK boxes without reading the 15 pages of material that clicking OK makes them agree to. I conducted that study this morning while reading these posts, so it is well researched. This is clearly a problem, and I have no idea what the solution, in the larger sense, could be. Apple has the advantage in that their customer base is mostly composed of people who like to do what they are told and are not interested in finding the boundaries of what they can do and extend beyond those (another well researched study field of mine...), therefore Apple has been able to place significant constraints on what their users can do without too much backlash. By purposely limiting their available market to those, they have been very successful and are making a ton of money. That is not a strategy of world domination, in terms of market share, but it is financially rewarding. Not a bad strategy.

  39. Re:20% 100% by joh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, 20% have the ability to access private data on Android. Now, 20% is less than 100%, which is what you effectively get on other smartphone platforms. On the iPhone, effectively 100% of apps have access to your private data.

    I think you'd surprised to find that to most private data NO apps have ANY access on the iPhone... They're mostly limited to their own data and to the net and there are only very few APIs to access anything else. Android may be cautios and transparent, but iOS is paranoid.

    In the long run I very much doubt that the "flagging and informing" of Android helps here. It's good for shifting the responsibility over to the user ("You clicked OK after all, you dumb fuck!"), nothing more. The difference between Google and Apple is that Google thinks this is enough and Apple doesn't. I have not made up my mind yet about who's right. But I know one thing: Half of the population is beyond average intelligence.

  40. Maybe it's just me... by dsouza42 · · Score: 1

    But when I download an app which has functionality related to accessing the content of my e-mails, making phone calls or sending text messages without my intervention, it's usually a good idea to allow them to do so. Besides, you always know what the app can and cannot do before you install it. You don't even have that kind of privilege on your computer. You install new software and you just trust that the developers did everything right, even though, in practice, the software can do just about anything on your computer.

  41. Misreported and FUD by unwesen · · Score: 1

    The whitepaper examines the permissions apps request, not the actions apps perform.

    Sadly requested permissions are not nearly as good an indicator for potential threats as one might think. In my own app, for example, I require the permission to read contact data - there is a use-case for that. However, that in no way implies that the app e.g. harvests email addresses for a spam service. Which it easily could, with that permission.

    1. Re:Misreported and FUD by AaronLS · · Score: 1

      Very true. When you install an android app or an update it always tells you exactly what access the application will have before you install it. So android users who are paying attention to what they are doing already know what their apps have access to. Additionally, to say the apps "expose" private data is very misleading, when the report only shows what apps have access to. If the app isn't compromising the data, transmitting it off the phone, and contains no vulnerabilities/features that allow remote access to the data, then the app is not "exposing" the data. So in a nutshell the access an app has does give it a potential to expose data, but to say that all 1/5th apps that have that access also expose the data is simply false. The author of the post probably knows this, but he knew it'd get more attention if he said the apps expose the data rather than saying they have access to it.

  42. Re:Android and IOS are dead, long live Blackberry by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    Why because 100% of apps have that access?
    The BB security model is a total nightmare, their OS is even worse with all its apps eating ram all the time.

  43. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oooooo shiny... when will this new phone come out?

    I NEED to get it before my friends do... They won't know where the fart noises are coming from... hehehe

  44. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

    Yeah, same here. Froyo might help since it has an option to update all your apps which don't have permission changes. Then you can verify permissions once when you first install and aren't bothered with it again for updates unless the update requests new permissions.

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  45. This just in.... by shadowrat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    99.9% of desktop apps can do whatever they want. They can read your emails. They can determine how much seti data you've processed. they can find out everything you type. They can capture video of your desktop and stream it to africa.

    People want their phones to be computers. You are taking no more or less risk with a phone than you do with a computer. The app market is ripe for social engineering attacks right now, but i highly doubt there is more risk than on the desktop.

    People are complaining that someone has access to contacts and emails, but people are also scrambling to give all that information to google through gmail, voice, and wave.

  46. I don't have to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why I only operate my Droid in airplane mode. Nothing gets in or out. You can't be too careful.

    1. Re:I don't have to worry by Eric+Smith · · Score: 1

      You still get stuff in and out through the display and buttons. Best to leave it turned off; then it is fairly secure.

  47. Sometimes I wonder... by nilbog · · Score: 1

    Android does a good job of listing everything an application has access to when you install it. Sometimes there are some head-scratchers in there. It would be nice if developers were in the habit of explaining why they need access to certain things or maybe even if the Android market gave developers a specific spot to write out justification for their API usage (with a buyer-beware warning of course).

    --
    or else!
  48. So...? by FunkyELF · · Score: 1

    The summary and article seem biased (although the article does mention the iPhone app store too).
    All of the apps on Android tell you what they have access to and there might be a good reason for it.
    The summary makes it seem bad that applications know where you are but that might be a central part to the application (foursquare, google maps, google sky maps, yelp etc.
    Also, a lot of ad supported apps need location to serve you regional advertisements.

    This is hogwash.

  49. obligatory by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    In Soviet Russia, private data exposes yo
    @&no carrier

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  50. What? by AnAdventurer · · Score: 1

    They are phones after all, designed first to make calls, then texts, then data. The whole premise is to send data in wireless form about you to someone else. If you don't want that, then don't install app X on your phone. Easy as pie!

    --
    6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
  51. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by s73v3r · · Score: 1

    The time to tell a user that something is trying to do something is when its trying to do something, not just when installing the app. There should be a way for the user to run an app, and then when it attempts to access private data, have the OS pop up a window alerting the user, and giving them the option to allow or deny access.

  52. Re: Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is you can not see what it's doing with the data. or deny it.

    Like I will install a notepad app. and it want to access my phonebook (for sending my notes via sms/mms/e-mail) and it want to access my location for ads.

    I can ether has ok, or not install it.
    If only I could say, no for it to access my location, and no to access my phonebook. I could use the notebook features, and just get non location based ads.

    I also have had some aps that wanted to change system prefenrences.
    No telling what prefrences it would change, or deny that part, or get it to pop up and tell want it wants to change, when it want to.

    When you install an app, you can only say yes or no.
    And have no controll, or insigth of what it's doing

  53. CNet author's previous article about the iPhone by riskeetee · · Score: 1

    Her previous article (posted the previous day, for chrissakes!) is all about an iPhone app that has some of the same permissions as the ones that are "security risks" on the Android: Good Technology boosts iPhone security controls http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20008232-245.html?tag=mncol;title This is about an app that can REMOTELY WIPE your iPhone! On an Apple, that INCREASES security. On an Android, that could REMOTELY BRICK your phone. Wow.

  54. Why bother? by Night64 · · Score: 1

    Anyone in the business that read CNET is surely a bad professional, sometimes even in the ethical sense. A bad magazine, that thrives on FUD to sell.

    --
    Grey's Law: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
  55. Do most users ignore the app security warnings? by Eric+Smith · · Score: 1
    I recently wanted a battery monitor app, and I was appalled that most of the apps in the store wanted access to my location, email, text messages, etc. Obviously there's no reason why a battery monitor app needs any of this.

    At least Android warns you about that before you install the app; on the iPhone the only warning you ever get is about location. Given how many of these apps seem to have good ratings, I guess most people just don't care.

    I tried one battery monitor app that did not present privacy warnings, and it basically worked, but it sucked the battery flat in less than an hour. Apparently it was written to run continuously, rather than periodically. I guess for now you don't get a good battery monitor without giving up your privacy.

    The security warnings would be much better if instead of just being warnings, the user had the option to install the app but deny it access to the things you don't want it to use (the way location works on the iPhone).

    1. Re:Do most users ignore the app security warnings? by nevermore94 · · Score: 1

      The reason that a lot of free apps need location information is because they also contain AdMob to support them which requires location to give you targeted ads. As annoying as AdMob may be that is often the price you have to pay for free apps. So, the best way to avoid that problem is to avoid any apps that use AdMob (or root your phone and disable AdMob).

      --
      Nevermore.
    2. Re:Do most users ignore the app security warnings? by nmos · · Score: 1

      So did you downrate these apps and make a comment explaining why? Email the authors?

    3. Re:Do most users ignore the app security warnings? by YouWantFriesWithThat · · Score: 1

      try BatteryLife by Curvefish. it is a widget which is nicer since it is always running, it requires no permissions, and it doesn't seem to have any effect on my battery consumption.

      it is the best one that i have found so far. i particularly like that it tells you the battery temperature, and i can set what % the battery turns orange and red at.

  56. Slashvertisements are in your Head by blair1q · · Score: 1

    Nice job, keeping this ad from being viraled onto /. there, firehose readers...

  57. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  58. The other four fifths... by sjonke · · Score: 1

    ...receive your private data from Google.

    --
    --- What?
  59. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  60. App Madness by lowrydr310 · · Score: 1

    I missed the whole iPhone craze by staying in the walled-in world of RIM. I'm about to upgrade to an Android handset, and I'm not seeing what this app madness is all about. I downloaded a few applications for the blackberry, but I found that most of the ones that I wanted were web services, and it was much easier to access those websites from the browser. (OK, in many cases the standalone applications offered a better interface, but I found it more convenient to just do everything in the browser)

    What applications do you really need beyond those that come pre-installed on an Android phone?

    I'm considering the HTC Evo right now -
    Can get my email? check
    Makes phone calls? check
    Has a web browser? check
    Has a decent camera for grabbing a quick picture of something? check

    Maybe I'm not like most users, but I don't intend to use my phone beyond what features are included by default. All of my iPhone toting friends have a bunch of apps installed, but rarely use any of them. (virtual dog whistle? golf scorekeeper?)

    1. Re:App Madness by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Ask yourself this: Are a few web pages and emails worth 30 bucks a month? Yes, there are a ton of shit apps, for Iphone and even Android and Blackberry. However, there are plenty of useful, non-web apps that can really add value to your smartphone. One I love to death that serves as a good example is WeatherBug for blackberry. Instead of visiting a web page if I want to know the weather, it automatically updates an icon on my main screen with the current conditions and forecast, and will download more information in an instant since it's just transferring a few bytes instead of a whole page. And, it will automatically ping me with severe weather alerts, without having to manage an email subscription and with the ability to take priority over other notifications. Integration is key, many apps don't bother and are very well worthless. The ones that get it right make the phone better even when you're doing something else with it. That's where the value comes from.

  61. Very limited risk by bgspence · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So any app that want's to access sensitive or private information or incur expensive charges must be designed to include features that might require permissions to convince users to OK those security rights. That limits potentially malicious apps to the category of useful apps as opposed to lighter flames or fart apps.

    Users look at granting permissions with as much detail a they do clicking through license terms. They just don't bother to download the sources, check each line of each file for potential bugs or maliciousness, and build the apps from the downloaded and vetted source. Most simply assume the permissions granted will be used for the stated or implied feature requirements. Most normal software use is based on trust. The user trusts that the developer uses the powers granted in a trustworthy manner.

    Android developers are always trustworthy. Thats why we rarely have malware, viruses or security exploits based on the developer misleading users. Steve Jobs lives in that alternative universe where some software developers might be tempted to misuse the permissions users click through. I live in that somewhat paranoid universe, too. I don't want to grant permissions to big name corporations who limit their ethics to "Don't be Evil." Evil is a line in the sand way beyond "Nasty" or merely "Bad". It probably includes lots of "Illegal" or "Unethical".

  62. Odd. That sort of ease of use is OK for Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Odd. That sort of ease of use is OK for Apple but not wanted with Android. How come? Is it only easy-to-use-is-a-good-thing for Apple?

    1. Re:Odd. That sort of ease of use is OK for Apple by azmodean+1 · · Score: 1

      Personally I'd far rather be notified ahead of time rather than when it happens. Configurable may be better, but at a certain point people start complaining about things being too complex. In my opinion both approaches have their strong and weak points.

      It might not be a reasonable example, but in my head I have a scenario where some poor sap is frantically playing a game, nearing the climactic finale, and a dialog pops up asking, "allow app to access your bank account? Allow/Deny". How many people would just frantically clear the dialog and continue with the game?

  63. Re:20% 100% by thoromyr · · Score: 1

    As you noted, the google model is nothing more than blame-shifting, just like MS's UAC. When compared to Apple's walled garden from a security perspective there isn't even a question as to which is better. The margin could be debated, and whether that margin is significant, but Apple's vetted application approach is far more useful security than a user vetted. User's click bad links in email, provide credentials on email request (the return on phishing is absurdly high), so on and so forth.

    Outside of the question of the security merits of Apple's approach is the bigger question of is it "better" for the user. The difficult part here is to define "better". This is where I see it being an open question. There is a secondary, and even more important, question as well: do the users even care? Someone brought up smartphones with applications and they new of the iphone and android. windows mobile didn't even get honorable mention, security, walled gardens vs blame-the-user didn't matter. What *did* matter was if there were apps for X, where X was to assist what the person did.

    Normal people don't actively care about security, or about how the apps get to their phone, they just care about what apps *do* get to their phone.

    thoromyr

  64. Bingo! by mpapet · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the link.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  65. sandboxing, not just signing by yyxx · · Score: 2, Informative

    Android applications have flags indicating what they are and aren't allowed to do, and are cryptographically signed with those flags.

    Older phone operating systems use that technique; it isn't very effective.

    Android actually sandboxes the application, ensuring that the permissions it requests are the only permissions it actually gets. Signing on Android is not used for verifying permissions but for "establishing trust relations" between multiple applications--making sure that if you call Jack's Barcode Reader, you actually get that application, not an impostor.

    Of course, iPhone/iOS doesn't have either kind of permission system; on iPhone/iOS, you have to cross your fingers that Apple's review process somehow catches evil applications. Of course, given how shoddy and haphazard that process is, that's not a good bet to take.

    1. Re:sandboxing, not just signing by cduffy · · Score: 1

      I don't believe anything I said implied that the permissions in the signed APK weren't enforced through technical means.

    2. Re:sandboxing, not just signing by yyxx · · Score: 1

      No, but your description of the process was still misleading. Even unsigned apps on Android can be secure. On iPhone, manual review and signing is the only thing that keeps you secure.

  66. it's clear and simple, not rocket science by yyxx · · Score: 1

    Just because half the people in the US don't wear safety belts doesn't mean we should remove them from our cars or that they aren't effective.

    Android has the same mechanisms for security that iPhone has: application review, ratings, and developer banishment. In addition, Android has something that neither iPhone nor other major systems have: capabilities-based sandboxing. That's a really good thing. Having the permission system on Android doesn't hurt you, it just gives you an extra layer of security if you choose to use it.

    And your assumption that "the general public" doesn't understand it when the installer says "this application may cost you money because it can send text messages" is wrong in my experience. Several non-technical friends and relatives of mine have gotten Android phones and they all have been paying attention to this.

  67. you're making things up by yyxx · · Score: 1

    I think you'd surprised to find that to most private data NO apps have ANY access on the iPhone...

    There are clearly APIs to access contact data, send text messages, determine your location, and make Internet connections. In principle, any application can use those.

    They're mostly limited to their own data and to the net and there are only very few APIs to access anything else.

    And how do you think they are "limited"? What do you think is doing the "limiting"? And how do you, as a user, find out whether the Tetris clone you just downloaded is sending $10 text messages to a for-pay text message service?

    The answer is that on iPhone, you can't. There is nothing limited about it. The OS isn't designed to do this and there is no way in which you, the user, could be informed of any restrictions.

    The only thing that potentially could "limit" these things is a thorough code review by Apple, where Apple determines which APIs an application invokes and whether that is a reasonable match for the functions that the application performs. However, the idea that Apple can perform such security audits on tens of thousands of Objective-C programs is ludicrous.

    In the long run I very much doubt that the "flagging and informing" of Android helps here. It's good for shifting the responsibility over to the user ("You clicked OK after all, you dumb fuck!"), nothing more. The difference between Google and Apple is that Google thinks this is enough and Apple doesn't.

    Totally wrong. Android sandboxes the apps. If the app doesn't request permission to use services that cost you money, it can't invoke such services; if the app doesn't request permission to access your phone book, it can't access it. That's a fundamental piece of technology that is just missing from iOS. It's a huge deficiency in iOS.

  68. "walled garden" is a joke by yyxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As you noted, the google model is nothing more than blame-shifting, just like MS's UAC.

    Totally wrong. Google sandboxes applications, meaning it enforces these permissions at the OS level. And the permissions are clear and simple enough that normal people usually understand them. On iPhone, in principle, any application can read almost any data and invoke for-pay services.

    When compared to Apple's walled garden from a security perspective there isn't even a question as to which is better.

    Apple's "walled garden" is a fiction; Apple doesn't have the resources to do meaningful security audits on the software it approves. Anybody who wants to can sneak malware into their Objective-C programs and activate it at some point in the future. Even with full source code, Objective-C is such a flexible language that a clever programmer can hide pretty much anything. And Apple wouldn't know about it until it gets user complaints. But since there is no sandboxing or permission system, and no way to install security software on the iPhone, it may be a long time before anybody notices what's going on. So, not only is Apple's own review process nearly meaningless against a determined hacker, user-based vetting is far less effective on the iOS platform.

    The only way to enforce permissions is through sandboxing. Apple's "walled garden" is a joke from a security point of view. iOS has just about the worst security model of any phone OS.

  69. Now that Elinor has changed her misleading title.. by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

    Maybe y'all could to or at least provide an update.

  70. to the moderators by yyxx · · Score: 1

    I guess the truth hurts, doesn't...

    You can moderate all you want, the facts remain. Android has an effective security architecture that protects users from hostile applications, while iPhone merely has the whims and quick review by the App Store review team to protect users from fraud and invasion of privacy.

  71. FUD Masters by TimeOut42 · · Score: 1

    All Android apps installed from the App store tell you exactly what they are requesting access to. So, if you download a game and it says it can make phone calls you may want to think twice about installing it.

    Flipping the option to download unsigned apps from outside the marketplace is also a user's choice on most Android handsets. Although, some carriers have disabled this feature (HTC Aria from AT&T for example).

    Basically, they have put the responsibility in the user's hands; not in the hands of a large corp that makes the decisions for you. If you want to play in a sandbox and have somebody watch over you and hold your hand; buy an IPhone. If you want to have more control over handset, get an Android.

    S

  72. "Study" done by company trying to sell something. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news, Smobile systems (The company that did this "study") has two programs in the android market with these permissions:
            * android.permission.INTERNET
            * android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE
            * android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION
            * android.permission.ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION
            * android.permission.READ_SMS
            * android.permission.WRITE_SMS
            * android.permission.RECEIVE_SMS
            * android.permission.WRITE_CONTACTS
            * android.permission.READ_CONTACTS
            * android.permission.WRITE_CALENDAR
            * android.permission.CAMERA
            * android.permission.VIBRATE
            * android.permission.PROCESS_OUTGOING_CALLS
            * android.permission.RECEIVE_BOOT_COMPLETED
            * android.permission.WAKE_LOCK

  73. Why isn't SELinux implemented on Android? by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 1

    It seems too obvious that this should be done by default, exactly for TFA's reason.

  74. You are _told_ what the apps can do _before_... by RichiH · · Score: 1

    ...you install them.

    Long story short? Don't install stuff with access to the whole phone just because you want yet another Abducted!-clone.

  75. Blackberry Style by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would like to see Android allow you to edit the permissions you are granting an app when you install it, like the Blackberry does. So if you are installing a trashy game that requests access to your SMS, you can deny it.

    1. Re:Blackberry Style by mweather · · Score: 1

      Users would just shot down the parts needed to serve ads, and all those free apps would disappear from the market.