> There is so much community support out there you can google any problem and find a walk through
Sure. NOW there is. Give it a couple years. You know all those geeks that Shuttleworth decided to kick in the nuts and send packing? Those are the same guys who made the walk throughs for his pet retards to follow. It'll be interesting to see what happens as Ubuntu evolves all on it's lonesome now, without that support.
I'm not in this fight, as I care for neither Ubuntu nor Debian. However, I have a bone to pick with #2.
No, you don't get security updates until 2017. You get security updates only on packages that Canonical hand picked for that particular release. Hence, your dwm (or really it could be any WM/DE other than Unity) and any other packages that stray from that line, are absolutely left in the cold and unpatched, unloved as soon as next-new-shiny gets released.
A little bit of info and perspective on the whole "deal with Microsoft" nonsense. I see it's come up a couple of times in this thread. Mostly from people who don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject. First, "the deal" was between Novell and Microsoft.
At the time, Novell owned SuSE, as in the Enterprise version. OpenSUSE got a lot of stuff contributed from SuSE, but was and is completely community based, so it has absolutely nothing to do with "the deal".
Since then, Attachmate bought Novell, and split Novell and SuSE off into their own separate companies. Basically at this point "the deal" means absolutely nothing, has little relevance as far as SuSE is concerned, and still absolutely none in regards to OpenSUSE.
openSUSE is not "a KDE distro". Both Gnome and KDE are on equal terms these days.
- Posted from a freshly installed 12.3 Gnome desktop. Installed from the DVD, which requires a choice between the two but in fact defaults to the Gnome desktop. Only default because G comes before K and the list is alphabetical.
The type of user who uses RHEL on a workstation is not the same as the distro hoppers who jump from one flavor of Ubuntu to another just because a package isn't included in the default of an icon got moved. They will simply use Firefox or do a custom build of Chromium or something, but jumping distros is likely not a consideration.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but since I do in fact use RHEL (actually Scientific) on several workstations...
Rpmfusion supports RHEL and RHEL clones. Then there is EPEL. Between these you can have ~98% of what's available on any Fedora install. This problem isn't nearly as big a deal as what you seem to be making of it.
Uh, no. You're half right, in that there is no need for X on a server. However, as a Linux Admin maintaining a few thousand of those servers, my workstation also runs RHEL, and for damn good reason.
Firstly, I have work to do, that doesn't involve updating my kernel every twenty seconds as Fedora is wont to do. I also have no need for the latest greatest version of GIMP or mediaplayeroftheday, or want to be forced to format and start all over again every 13 months, while still trying to get work done.
RHEL and RHEL clones have a very real place on many peoples' workstations. That said, I'm a Firefox user and have zero interest or need in Chrome. Many of my co-workers do though.
I actually do have one of these installed on a.40 caliber S&W. Works pretty well...until you try to switch hands. In hindsight not such a great idea for us ambidextrous guys.
Where's you get the 3 rounds idea? Every 12g I've ever fired held 7 shells. During certain hunting seasons they are limited to 3 or 4, in which case we cut off a pencil and use it as plug.
It's not impeding my productivity one bit. In fact it was Unity that brought me back to use a full desktop environment after several years of using xmonad. Simply because someone finally realized that a keyboard with 100+ keys on it is superior for interacting with a complex computer than a 3 button mouse.
Unity is by far the most widely used shell on Ubuntu, despite the depressed-hipster "can't live with unity" meme.
If you're not willing to do real work to achieve the outcome you believe in, then you're just another empty vessel with an opinion. And as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one. What matters is the people who are willing to knuckle down and do real work to make a difference.
Some very interesting answers for sure. Personally, I loved the above quoted excerpts. There are a couple of small, yet very vocal groups around these days that quite frankly, need a good verbal bitch-slapping to put them back in their places.
Full disclosure: I'm a happy Ubuntu user, love Unity, and think RMS should have kept his mouth shut about something he doesn't even use or have first hand experience with.
The thing is, 12.10 as the release numbers indicate released two whole months ago, and yes there was bitching and complaining, even before it's release, and on it's release. Mostly comments that ended in "and this is why I switched to Mint 2 years ago!" Frankly I'm still baffled about why people who don't use Unity like to bitch and tell everyone else why they shouldn't use it either. Anyway, RMS waited months to bring up this whole "controversy", again about something he has no experience with at all. The AMA questions for Mark were asked before RMS decided to rehash old crap. That's a really long way of saying, it wasn't any sort of huge issue when the questions were being asked. That's why.
I could care less what you, RMS, or anyone else believes, ya self important jagoff. The fact is, I USE Unity, and I know better. Those who don't have first hand experience really don't need to be running their uninformed mouths. Period.
Nope. Actually he's wrong there too. Super+f to go to "Files & Folders" view. In that part of the dash, all searches are all local and nothing is sent to Canonical or anyone else. Of course, if RMS like so many obnoxious Mint users, had actually used Unity instead of ranting about things they don't understand......
Yep. Replying to mahself. I just want to add that I would go out of my way to avoid any project that contributed to projects such as Trisquel. I'll happily contribute to Debian or Canonical before handing over good money to a project that exists only to repackage another distro, minus any actual useful bits, just to appease RMS.
Eh you're mostly right on. The downside to ThinkPenguin, and I just recently did some PC shopping so I know for a fact, is that unless you want some POS Celeron with no memory to speak of, you're gonna be forking over Apple-like prices. No thanks.
I'm sure all 10 of the people who haven't figured out Android is better (*including my girlfriend) will be thrilled.
* She's just waiting on her contract to run out actually. Sitting next to her with a new shiny LG Venice on a real unlimited plan changed her perspective on stuff.
Not really. RedHat has, several times, actively helped CentOS. Their basic view of the situation for quite some time now has been that anyone wanting to use CentOS was not a customer that would have been willing to pay the RedHat support subscription to begin with. So they lose no money. In fact, the existance of CentOS actually helps them.
Warning. it's a long show, but yes he said it straight up, and even more idiocy. This is the interview where he gives us such gems as developers should go be plumbers rather than develop proprietary software and also software being free supercedes the ability to feed your kids.
Am I the only one who isn't really concerned about the whole "how much is it in relation to Windows" thing? Personally, I won't be buying this thing for several very good reasons, but that just isn't one of em. I want to buy a nice well supported laptop that was built for the OS I choose to use. I could care less if that laptop also has a Windows version, as well as what the price of the Windows version is.
Slashdot Mirror
Any war with them with missiles would be concluded before you heard about it on Slashdot.
Just to be clear, is that the original Slashdot posting or the dupe?
> There is so much community support out there you can google any problem and find a walk through
Sure. NOW there is. Give it a couple years. You know all those geeks that Shuttleworth decided to kick in the nuts and send packing? Those are the same guys who made the walk throughs for his pet retards to follow. It'll be interesting to see what happens as Ubuntu evolves all on it's lonesome now, without that support.
I'm not in this fight, as I care for neither Ubuntu nor Debian. However, I have a bone to pick with #2.
No, you don't get security updates until 2017. You get security updates only on packages that Canonical hand picked for that particular release. Hence, your dwm (or really it could be any WM/DE other than Unity) and any other packages that stray from that line, are absolutely left in the cold and unpatched, unloved as soon as next-new-shiny gets released.
Well then. TIL
Tha hell has noon got to do with anything?
And stop bitching already people! Get a fucking sense of humor already.
A little bit of info and perspective on the whole "deal with Microsoft" nonsense. I see it's come up a couple of times in this thread. Mostly from people who don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject. First, "the deal" was between Novell and Microsoft.
At the time, Novell owned SuSE, as in the Enterprise version. OpenSUSE got a lot of stuff contributed from SuSE, but was and is completely community based, so it has absolutely nothing to do with "the deal".
Since then, Attachmate bought Novell, and split Novell and SuSE off into their own separate companies. Basically at this point "the deal" means absolutely nothing, has little relevance as far as SuSE is concerned, and still absolutely none in regards to OpenSUSE.
openSUSE is not "a KDE distro". Both Gnome and KDE are on equal terms these days.
- Posted from a freshly installed 12.3 Gnome desktop. Installed from the DVD, which requires a choice between the two but in fact defaults to the Gnome desktop. Only default because G comes before K and the list is alphabetical.
The type of user who uses RHEL on a workstation is not the same as the distro hoppers who jump from one flavor of Ubuntu to another just because a package isn't included in the default of an icon got moved. They will simply use Firefox or do a custom build of Chromium or something, but jumping distros is likely not a consideration.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but since I do in fact use RHEL (actually Scientific) on several workstations...
Rpmfusion supports RHEL and RHEL clones. Then there is EPEL. Between these you can have ~98% of what's available on any Fedora install. This problem isn't nearly as big a deal as what you seem to be making of it.
Uh, no. You're half right, in that there is no need for X on a server. However, as a Linux Admin maintaining a few thousand of those servers, my workstation also runs RHEL, and for damn good reason.
Firstly, I have work to do, that doesn't involve updating my kernel every twenty seconds as Fedora is wont to do. I also have no need for the latest greatest version of GIMP or mediaplayeroftheday, or want to be forced to format and start all over again every 13 months, while still trying to get work done.
RHEL and RHEL clones have a very real place on many peoples' workstations. That said, I'm a Firefox user and have zero interest or need in Chrome. Many of my co-workers do though.
I actually do have one of these installed on a .40 caliber S&W. Works pretty well...until you try to switch hands. In hindsight not such a great idea for us ambidextrous guys.
Where's you get the 3 rounds idea? Every 12g I've ever fired held 7 shells. During certain hunting seasons they are limited to 3 or 4, in which case we cut off a pencil and use it as plug.
It's not impeding my productivity one bit. In fact it was Unity that brought me back to use a full desktop environment after several years of using xmonad. Simply because someone finally realized that a keyboard with 100+ keys on it is superior for interacting with a complex computer than a 3 button mouse.
Unity is by far the most widely used shell on Ubuntu, despite the depressed-hipster "can't live with unity" meme.
If you're not willing to do real work to achieve the outcome you believe in, then you're just another empty vessel with an opinion. And as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one. What matters is the people who are willing to knuckle down and do real work to make a difference.
Some very interesting answers for sure. Personally, I loved the above quoted excerpts. There are a couple of small, yet very vocal groups around these days that quite frankly, need a good verbal bitch-slapping to put them back in their places.
Full disclosure: I'm a happy Ubuntu user, love Unity, and think RMS should have kept his mouth shut about something he doesn't even use or have first hand experience with.
The thing is, 12.10 as the release numbers indicate released two whole months ago, and yes there was bitching and complaining, even before it's release, and on it's release. Mostly comments that ended in "and this is why I switched to Mint 2 years ago!" Frankly I'm still baffled about why people who don't use Unity like to bitch and tell everyone else why they shouldn't use it either. Anyway, RMS waited months to bring up this whole "controversy", again about something he has no experience with at all. The AMA questions for Mark were asked before RMS decided to rehash old crap. That's a really long way of saying, it wasn't any sort of huge issue when the questions were being asked. That's why.
I could care less what you, RMS, or anyone else believes, ya self important jagoff. The fact is, I USE Unity, and I know better. Those who don't have first hand experience really don't need to be running their uninformed mouths. Period.
Nope. Actually he's wrong there too. Super+f to go to "Files & Folders" view. In that part of the dash, all searches are all local and nothing is sent to Canonical or anyone else. Of course, if RMS like so many obnoxious Mint users, had actually used Unity instead of ranting about things they don't understand......
Yep. Replying to mahself. I just want to add that I would go out of my way to avoid any project that contributed to projects such as Trisquel. I'll happily contribute to Debian or Canonical before handing over good money to a project that exists only to repackage another distro, minus any actual useful bits, just to appease RMS.
Eh you're mostly right on. The downside to ThinkPenguin, and I just recently did some PC shopping so I know for a fact, is that unless you want some POS Celeron with no memory to speak of, you're gonna be forking over Apple-like prices. No thanks.
I'm sure all 10 of the people who haven't figured out Android is better (*including my girlfriend) will be thrilled.
* She's just waiting on her contract to run out actually. Sitting next to her with a new shiny LG Venice on a real unlimited plan changed her perspective on stuff.
Not really. RedHat has, several times, actively helped CentOS. Their basic view of the situation for quite some time now has been that anyone wanting to use CentOS was not a customer that would have been willing to pay the RedHat support subscription to begin with. So they lose no money. In fact, the existance of CentOS actually helps them.
"I don't see a reference to RMS saying nobody should have kids - do you?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=radmjL5OIaA
Warning. it's a long show, but yes he said it straight up, and even more idiocy. This is the interview where he gives us such gems as developers should go be plumbers rather than develop proprietary software and also software being free supercedes the ability to feed your kids.
Making the same badly informed assumptions, only months behind everyone else.
Do everyone a favor RMS. Next time you feel the urge to 'speak out' on something, just don't.
This. I agee fully. Of course you said it better than I could have.
Am I the only one who isn't really concerned about the whole "how much is it in relation to Windows" thing? Personally, I won't be buying this thing for several very good reasons, but that just isn't one of em. I want to buy a nice well supported laptop that was built for the OS I choose to use. I could care less if that laptop also has a Windows version, as well as what the price of the Windows version is.