Well, if you understand the physics of the Lunar Laser Ranging stuff, then it is pretty much irrefutable humans were on the moon.
If you actually know how they work then it isn't. Several attempts are sometimes required to actually find the damn things in the first place and it can even be the surface of the moon reflecting the light back. Heck, there is even a massive discrepancy on the agreed coordinates of the landers and sites themselves.
The trouble is people have got themselves into this mindset of there being 'irrefutable proof', but when you look at it and how it actually works it is anything but.
Yer, he's the definitive Rochefort. To be honest, I would ban anyone making any musketeers films or series ever again because there simply isn't any point.
.....I always though I liked animals. Then I found I liked killing people even more.
Great line, usually overshadowed by Goldfinger's "I expect you to die!" Then there was Scaramanga's answer to a boardroom resignation all delivered brilliantly by the man himself. I'm afraid they really don't make them like that any more, and that isn't a rose tinted view.
Linus has already stated, and I've provided the very message, where he has point blank told Greg that this needs to be tested in distribution kernels before it ever gets anywhere near mainline.
If you're choosing not to see that then there's not much we can do here.
Rather typical LKML discussion in my opinion, but blown out in all proportions by the systemd-haters because they wrongly think that Linus don't like systemd nor its programmers because of this.
No it wasn't. Linus made his views on when this stuff will get merged, if ever, abundantly clear. It's not blown out of all proportion. That's what was written.
What he and Linus disagreed upon was whether you should fix broken kernel features or not. Kay thought you should, Linus disagreed.
I don't know whether you're being this fucking stupid on purpose, but this shit needs shooting down and it currently is on the Linux kernel developer's mailing list. Existing and expected behaviour from the kernel does not get altered. EVER. Userspace does not get something different. That was made abundantly clear.
Who the fuck are you or Kay Sievers to tell kernel developers what flags they will now suddenly pass as debug that have been used forever? I'm afraid this attitude problem is going to get shot down in a very public way, as it is currently doing, by the kernel developers.
Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.
This has been going on for *years*, and doesn't seem to be getting any better. This is relevant to you because I have seen you talk about the kdbus patches, and this is a heads-up that you need to keep them separate from other work. Let distributions merge it as they need to and maybe we can merge it once it has been proven to be stable by whatever distro that was willing to play games with the developers.
Regardless of any other bullshit and hearsay, that is the policy of the kernel. When he says 'Kay', read any systemd developer. Oh, and no, it's not a joke and no he doesn't write the e-mails on the kernel mailing list for the goodness of his health.
However, you are forgetting another crucial piece of evidence, the descent rate, which we have from radar data.
It means absolutely nothing until you look at the aircraft, it's data and ultimately why that actually happened.
It seems to be consensus on every source I read, that the very smooth descend rate must be autopilot controlled, and setting the autopilot's target altitude is pretty involved, and must be done intentionally.
Consensus and 'I read that' has no place in air crash investigation. Many puzzling voice recordings have been taken from crashes until the data recorder was found and the plane wreckage examined.
That said, yes, they were very fast with laying the blame on the co-pilot. Disturbingly so. Let's hope the investigation will actually continue, though the plane was disintegrated, and the they're even publicly saying that the second recorder might never be found.
One can only hope that the data recorder is recovered and the plane can be pieced back together by some competent investigators. However, I have an awful feeling that won't be found and that won't happen.
If you hear sounds of the captain banging on the door, it certainly tells you he was locked out.
Without data it tells you nothing. Many crashes have been a complete mystery from a cockpit recording point-of-view until the data recorder has been found, which in this case, it doesn't look like we're going to get.
Doesn't explain the constant breathing, reprogramming of the flight system to descend, and the captain being locked out. Even if the co-pilot was unconscious, the captain should be able to unlock the door. And if there was a fire and noxious fumes, the co-pilot would put on his oxygen mask.
Ahhh, yes, the calm breathing. Headsets give clarity to voices, not background noises. If you can hear breathing.....it isn't calm.
It's kinda hard to extrapolate a note from a doctor if it wasn't there, unless you want to accuse the investigators of fabricating evidence.
You're just continually shooting around in the dark with nothing to say.
Many people have doctor's notes of all kinds. Proves zilch.
Never let bothersome facts or evidence get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. After all, if you dig down a few layers of turtles, you can convince yourself that any of these "facts" are simply manufactured, and therefore are evidence of the conspiracy themselves.
Yes, you can convince yourself of anything if you start looking into the private lives of anyone.
Of course, it's totally implausible to think that this investigation would be conducted in anything like a standard fashion.
There is no conclusion.........because the investigation into this has not been completed. You're running around in circles, as you have been doing through this entire thread. This ain't standard practice.
Of course, the leaked transcript may be in error, but given that the prosecutor agrees with the conclusions, it's unlikely to differ in a significant way.
Holy shit, you really are an idiot...........
In addition, the 'breathing' statement is most interesting. Headsets and communication equipment are calibrated to give clarity to voices, not background sounds. If you can hear breathing.......it certainly isn't calm.
I'm afraid you don't have any audio recording. It hasn't been released. There is a supposed transcript leaked to German media, but it is pure hearsay nor is it anything like official. It wasn't produced in a press conference with any kind of normal explanation or Q and A. Additionally, pilot and cockpit's associations do not agree with how this has been done at all:
The German Airline Pilots Association pointed out that the flight data recorder was still missing and that the reasons that led to the crash could only be determined once all data had been examined.
The European Cockpit Association said the release of voice recorder data was a "serious breach" of globally accepted rules. It said many questions remained unanswered.
Recordings give you an indication that something strange might be going on, but from there you have to find other evidence from the data recorder or even a reconstruction of the plane itself to find out was actually going on and match it up.
People are extrapolating an awful lot from a bunch of sounds.
No, he's the only one talking to the press about what the conclusions are. Which is pretty typical.
It's not typical. You'd get an air accident investigation team talking about it.
......and those conclusions are being made before any full investigation has been made or a report has been produced or before anyone has understood what happened to the plane as a result.
Do you see the massive hole you've dug for yourself here?
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If you actually know how they work then it isn't. Several attempts are sometimes required to actually find the damn things in the first place and it can even be the surface of the moon reflecting the light back. Heck, there is even a massive discrepancy on the agreed coordinates of the landers and sites themselves.
The trouble is people have got themselves into this mindset of there being 'irrefutable proof', but when you look at it and how it actually works it is anything but.
Not if they themselves also had something to hide. It's a murky game these countries play.
Yer, he's the definitive Rochefort. To be honest, I would ban anyone making any musketeers films or series ever again because there simply isn't any point.
.....I always though I liked animals. Then I found I liked killing people even more.
Great line, usually overshadowed by Goldfinger's "I expect you to die!" Then there was Scaramanga's answer to a boardroom resignation all delivered brilliantly by the man himself. I'm afraid they really don't make them like that any more, and that isn't a rose tinted view.
If you don't mind dying from the radiation damage before we get out of the solar system... wait, that does help with the overpopulation problem....
You could just ask NASA what they did with Apollo. Already been done.
That is all.
Linus has already stated, and I've provided the very message, where he has point blank told Greg that this needs to be tested in distribution kernels before it ever gets anywhere near mainline.
If you're choosing not to see that then there's not much we can do here.
Linus Torvalds have long signalled that he wants kdbus in the kernel.
No he hasn't you liar. I'm afraid this propaganda ain't going to have any effect whatsoever on his views.
Rather typical LKML discussion in my opinion, but blown out in all proportions by the systemd-haters because they wrongly think that Linus don't like systemd nor its programmers because of this.
No it wasn't. Linus made his views on when this stuff will get merged, if ever, abundantly clear. It's not blown out of all proportion. That's what was written.
What he and Linus disagreed upon was whether you should fix broken kernel features or not. Kay thought you should, Linus disagreed.
I don't know whether you're being this fucking stupid on purpose, but this shit needs shooting down and it currently is on the Linux kernel developer's mailing list. Existing and expected behaviour from the kernel does not get altered. EVER. Userspace does not get something different. That was made abundantly clear.
Who the fuck are you or Kay Sievers to tell kernel developers what flags they will now suddenly pass as debug that have been used forever? I'm afraid this attitude problem is going to get shot down in a very public way, as it is currently doing, by the kernel developers.
DBUS is so amateur hour it's seriously embarrassing for open source software.
Ahhhh, yes, it's out of context. Where do I keep hearing that one?
Sure, many systemd-opponents harbour fantasies like that.
Many systemd proponents harbour fantasies of it being the one true way of doing......anything and want to wave away the problems.
This, by the way, is Linus's take on kdbus and why it won't be seen in the kernel for some time to come, if ever:
http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/...
Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.
This has been going on for *years*, and doesn't seem to be getting any better. This is relevant to you because I have seen you talk about the kdbus patches, and this is a heads-up that you need to keep them separate from other work. Let distributions merge it as they need to and maybe we can merge it once it has been proven to be stable by whatever distro that was willing to play games with the developers.
Regardless of any other bullshit and hearsay, that is the policy of the kernel. When he says 'Kay', read any systemd developer. Oh, and no, it's not a joke and no he doesn't write the e-mails on the kernel mailing list for the goodness of his health.
We're interested in fact, not truth.
Ad hominem.......
However, you are forgetting another crucial piece of evidence, the descent rate, which we have from radar data.
It means absolutely nothing until you look at the aircraft, it's data and ultimately why that actually happened.
It seems to be consensus on every source I read, that the very smooth descend rate must be autopilot controlled, and setting the autopilot's target altitude is pretty involved, and must be done intentionally.
Consensus and 'I read that' has no place in air crash investigation. Many puzzling voice recordings have been taken from crashes until the data recorder was found and the plane wreckage examined.
That said, yes, they were very fast with laying the blame on the co-pilot. Disturbingly so. Let's hope the investigation will actually continue, though the plane was disintegrated, and the they're even publicly saying that the second recorder might never be found.
One can only hope that the data recorder is recovered and the plane can be pieced back together by some competent investigators. However, I have an awful feeling that won't be found and that won't happen.
If you hear sounds of the captain banging on the door, it certainly tells you he was locked out.
Without data it tells you nothing. Many crashes have been a complete mystery from a cockpit recording point-of-view until the data recorder has been found, which in this case, it doesn't look like we're going to get.
Doesn't explain the constant breathing, reprogramming of the flight system to descend, and the captain being locked out. Even if the co-pilot was unconscious, the captain should be able to unlock the door. And if there was a fire and noxious fumes, the co-pilot would put on his oxygen mask.
Ahhh, yes, the calm breathing. Headsets give clarity to voices, not background noises. If you can hear breathing.....it isn't calm.
It's kinda hard to extrapolate a note from a doctor if it wasn't there, unless you want to accuse the investigators of fabricating evidence.
You're just continually shooting around in the dark with nothing to say.
Many people have doctor's notes of all kinds. Proves zilch.
Never let bothersome facts or evidence get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. After all, if you dig down a few layers of turtles, you can convince yourself that any of these "facts" are simply manufactured, and therefore are evidence of the conspiracy themselves.
Yes, you can convince yourself of anything if you start looking into the private lives of anyone.
Of course, it's totally implausible to think that this investigation would be conducted in anything like a standard fashion.
No, it doesn't. That's why we need the data to fill that in and make sense of what has been said.
There are a lot of conflicting reports about not finding the data recorder, and that it has been found but damaged with its data card missing.
Except we do, because we have cockpit audio?
They are looking for the backup recorder.
Except......we don't.
Of course, the leaked transcript may be in error, but given that the prosecutor agrees with the conclusions, it's unlikely to differ in a significant way.
Holy shit, you really are an idiot...........
In addition, the 'breathing' statement is most interesting. Headsets and communication equipment are calibrated to give clarity to voices, not background sounds. If you can hear breathing.......it certainly isn't calm.
I think that concludes this thread of denial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...
The German Airline Pilots Association pointed out that the flight data recorder was still missing and that the reasons that led to the crash could only be determined once all data had been examined.
The European Cockpit Association said the release of voice recorder data was a "serious breach" of globally accepted rules. It said many questions remained unanswered.
Recordings give you an indication that something strange might be going on, but from there you have to find other evidence from the data recorder or even a reconstruction of the plane itself to find out was actually going on and match it up.
People are extrapolating an awful lot from a bunch of sounds.
No, he's the only one talking to the press about what the conclusions are. Which is pretty typical.
It's not typical. You'd get an air accident investigation team talking about it.
......and those conclusions are being made before any full investigation has been made or a report has been produced or before anyone has understood what happened to the plane as a result.
Do you see the massive hole you've dug for yourself here?