The problem here is the huge quantity of thermal energy that needs to be exchanged for a small amount of useful work. To generate work between a 80 degree f source and a 50 degree f sink the best you can do is around 7 percent efficiency.
Set up shop in Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico and maybe as a added benefit, such energy harvesting, could decreasing hurricane potential by cooling surface water temperature. This would be win-win, but I am sure that it would also be disruptive to some marine life so maybe a win-win-lose sometime you just can't have it all.
The best arguement against a young earth is not decay rates or deposition rates, or salinity rates but things you can walk up and see. The best arguement I have come up with is the geological angular unconformity with takes several unavoidable long time period sequential steps such as
Deposition
Lithofication
Uplift
Erosion
Deposition (again)
Lithofication (again)
Uplift (again)
Etc.
Great examples abound and there is even one at the bottom of the grand canyon. Some fine examples
1,
2,
3
and 4
You claim that ID is not predictible- but since it predicts the exact same outcomes that evolution does, that would mean that evolution wasn't predictable either
I don't think this is true or I did not understand your meaning. For example:
There are two kinds of whales: those with teeth, and those that strain microscopic food out of seawater with baleen. Some scientist using the theory of evolution predicted that a transitional whale must have once existed, which had both teeth and baleen. Such a fossil has since been found.
Evolution predicts that we will find fossil series, ID make no such predictions. Fossil series in especially easily preserved anamals such as shells (bivalves,etc) are well represented and recognized.
Evolution would predict that animals on distant islands will appear closely related to animals on nearby islands and the closest mainland, and that the more distant the islands, the more distant the relationship. This is what is found in numerous examples in smaller scales, ie Gallapogos Islands and in larger scales such as Marsupials in Austrailia.
Evolution would predict parasites such as the guinea worm ID would not.
Darwin himself predicted that precursors to the trilobite would be found in pre-Silurian rocks. He was correct: they were subsequently found.
I would appreciate you expanding your thought here how ID would make the exact same predictions as evolution.
I am sorry if you work for the Navy all your solutions that are to be connected to the network have to comply with the same hardware/software that sits on the sectaries desk - this is the result of one of the biggist and stupidest IT contracts ever - NMCI. The Navy still has not pulled its collective head out of its ass and dealt with multi-platform most appropiate solutions.
In fact, the Navy have even given ownership of its entire network physical plant to a contractor!!!! So if new leadership wakes up and realizes it was all a bad move there is no easy way out because they would have to buy back its own network.
Or why not do the same with evolution? So why do you answer a question with a question? By doing so you dodge the question of why not prove something before believing in it. Because if you do it backwards you will end up believing whatever you cultural heritage suggests.
As far as your question goes - Ues starting by questioning evolution or old earth assumptiong is recommended. And yes, there is a preponderance of evidence to support evolution and old earth. Again, as in angular unconformities, I prefer the simple examples as evidence versus detailed technical arguements. For example, any physical geologic separation of life forms such as a continent, island or mountain range are attendent with variations of life forms and formation of related species. Look at Madagascar, Australia, Gelapagos islands, or Sierra Nevada mountains. Predicted and actually required by evolution but not predicted or even suggested by creationism.
Doctor Hovind has not made _any_ contributions to science or geology. He has no formation training in science. If Hovind has been dishonest in his credentials, question everything he has to say. Beware of the individual who is "dishonest for god".
Unconformities do not typically involve bending of rock. Which makes it more difficult to deal with on a short time frame. Many unconformities, such as ones at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, do not have significant bending - so to have them tilted as "soft muds" with no distortions would be improbable if not impossible. To have large sections of the earth move in parallel requires lithification or solidification before tilting and uplift and erosion. A few nice examples:
BTW bending of solid rock is not difficult at high hydrostatic pressures and temperatures.
Again, I haven't read a lot of actual science studies on geology
I don't think you necessarily need to. You need a little scepticism, discernment and common sense to appreciate angular unconformities and other geological structures. For example, in this photo photo which deposition layer represents the flood. These are gravel layers separted by lava flows. Presumptions are not required to understand the earth is old and tortured.
BTW you last arguemenst sounds a lot like relativism. Truth does not care about your relative view point.
"I'll believe the Bible unless or until someone proves it wrong"
Seems to me the more honest approach would be to start questioning and believe in the Bible when you could prove it right? Have you ever thought if you were born in the middle east you might now just be saying "I'll believe in the Koran or Vedic texts unless or until someone proves it wrong".
Second your faith in Dr. Kent Hovind and his "Geology" may need some unbiased examination. First Hovind is not a Geologist and second he is not a Doctor. I encourage yourself to do a little honest searching.
Third if you are debating the question of the age of the earth, young or old. I recommend that you research angular unconformities. The interesting aspect about unconformities is that you can witness them directly and can bypass all the evidence of radioisotopes and things that cannot be view with your senses. Unconformities, such as Siccar Point a famous outcrop on the Scottish coast, are the geologic features which convinced (Christian Geologist) Hutton and Lyell that the earth was old. An unconformity requires a serial string of geologic events each taking long periods of time such as:
Layered Deposition
Lithification
Tilting and uplift
Erosion
Layered Depoistion (again)
Lithification (again)
Erosion (again)
etc.
If you are looking for Geologist makeing more sense than Hovind check out Glenn Morton a former yec, who could not honestly uphold the yec philosphy after the evaluating a preponderance of evidence.
Do you realize you just stumbled into Bush's campaign philosophy? It was this very image that he so often restorted to. Bah Washington and their "fuzzy math" you need a man who is just a "awh shucks" sort of guy and can see through all the baloney.
Actually most of the global warming models involving the north Atlantic oceanic conveyor predicts northern Europe will plunge into a new ice age. Brrr.... That is why we selfish Americans are not overly concerned about it.
For the those clueless people, like myself, RSN does not stand for the "Royal Singapore Navy" or the Religious Science of Nashville but for "Real, Soon now" which to the initiate could alternately mean "Real Soon, Possibly Never".
I guess you need to be a science fiction fanzine fanboy or a regular reader of "Chaos Manor" to know this. Tribal Knowledge...
Interesting point. Who wants the Ayatollah or Stalin around for a century. My thought was of what good people could do with more time but I never thought about what bad people could do.
You point taken so I suggest therefore we, impose forced retirement, loss of voting rights and inelgibility for public office at 100. Ah more free time to play with the great-great-great grandkids and relish the concept of compound interest.
This interperation is quite different than yours. I quote "The subject matter which is the command to the father not to accept death so easily..." and "Even though wise men know that they cannot keep death away forever and especially if they have not accomplished their goals in life, they don't accept death easily; they "Do not go gentle . . .."
err... designed is a now a loaded word - wrong choice. But reading some of the other comments above there are plenty of people who think that to die is just the orderly way things should be - don't mess with it. It alway pisses me off when people can't think outside of a box. The same arguement could be made about the first discover of agriculture, about how now socities will now be stable and the lifespans will double - doom doom now everone back to hunting mammoths.
You want to create a society where only the "brightest" get to live on? Now thats uptopian. Maybe we should just go back to hunter gathering societies and all die before we are 40 - except for the smart ones.
How about looking at the possibilities such as
Compensate birth rates like what is happening in industrial socities now.
Finding ways to accomodate more people without destroying the environment.
Extending our civiliation into the solar system and beyond which is good idea anyways - since having all your DNA stuck at the bottom of gravity well on a knownly unstable
platform is not a good long term idea.
err can you define "quality".
When you say "life is short, but beautiful on account" on whose or what account.
To take your conclusion to the extreme the most beautiful and quality filled life would be those that a week live.
Longevity will provide the next inflection point of human capacity and progress. Imagine if the great people of science could continue to contribute and innovate for the equivalent of several lifetimes. Gauss was the last mathematician who was said to be able to be conversant with the entire spectrum of mathematics. Currently it takes a human a decade to two just to be abreast of a specific field of science to be able to make any significant contributions. The period of time available to advance our understanding is getting shorter and shorter due to increase in the body of knowledge and our limited life times.
I know there will be the crowd that says - but we were designed to die. That is bunk! Self aware intelligence is bound and destined to perpetuated and proliferate.
Slashdot Mirror
The problem here is the huge quantity of thermal energy that needs to be exchanged for a small amount of useful work. To generate work between a 80 degree f source and a 50 degree f sink the best you can do is around 7 percent efficiency.
Set up shop in Caribbean or Gulf of Mexico and maybe as a added benefit, such energy harvesting, could decreasing hurricane potential by cooling surface water temperature. This would be win-win, but I am sure that it would also be disruptive to some marine life so maybe a win-win-lose sometime you just can't have it all.
Yes evil always lurks in dark passage ways....
Great examples abound and there is even one at the bottom of the grand canyon. Some fine examples 1, 2, 3 and 4
I don't think this is true or I did not understand your meaning. For example:
I would appreciate you expanding your thought here how ID would make the exact same predictions as evolution.
Naw they probably perpetrated it
To all those who think this sort of thing is far fetched - I ask what sounds more far fetched:
a) Establish peace, stability and democracy to a middle eastern country by force.
or
b) "construct colossal solar panels for satellites that will transmit solar energy back to Earth"
hmmmm.....
I like bad analogies so let me try.... Committing yourself and your business to Microsoft is like Skydiving without a parachute.
One more just make it complete...
Slashdot.org (unimaginative troll) - I for one welcome our new aquatic martian overlords.
I am sorry if you work for the Navy all your solutions that are to be connected to the network have to comply with the same hardware/software that sits on the sectaries desk - this is the result of one of the biggist and stupidest IT contracts ever - NMCI. The Navy still has not pulled its collective head out of its ass and dealt with multi-platform most appropiate solutions.
In fact, the Navy have even given ownership of its entire network physical plant to a contractor!!!! So if new leadership wakes up and realizes it was all a bad move there is no easy way out because they would have to buy back its own network.
Or why not do the same with evolution? So why do you answer a question with a question? By doing so you dodge the question of why not prove something before believing in it. Because if you do it backwards you will end up believing whatever you cultural heritage suggests.
As far as your question goes - Ues starting by questioning evolution or old earth assumptiong is recommended. And yes, there is a preponderance of evidence to support evolution and old earth. Again, as in angular unconformities, I prefer the simple examples as evidence versus detailed technical arguements. For example, any physical geologic separation of life forms such as a continent, island or mountain range are attendent with variations of life forms and formation of related species. Look at Madagascar, Australia, Gelapagos islands, or Sierra Nevada mountains. Predicted and actually required by evolution but not predicted or even suggested by creationism.
Doctor Hovind has not made _any_ contributions to science or geology. He has no formation training in science. If Hovind has been dishonest in his credentials, question everything he has to say. Beware of the individual who is "dishonest for god".
Unconformities do not typically involve bending of rock. Which makes it more difficult to deal with on a short time frame. Many unconformities, such as ones at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, do not have significant bending - so to have them tilted as "soft muds" with no distortions would be improbable if not impossible. To have large sections of the earth move in parallel requires lithification or solidification before tilting and uplift and erosion. A few nice examples:
Example 1 Example 2 Example 3 Example 4
BTW bending of solid rock is not difficult at high hydrostatic pressures and temperatures.
Again, I haven't read a lot of actual science studies on geology I don't think you necessarily need to. You need a little scepticism, discernment and common sense to appreciate angular unconformities and other geological structures. For example, in this photo photo which deposition layer represents the flood. These are gravel layers separted by lava flows. Presumptions are not required to understand the earth is old and tortured.
BTW you last arguemenst sounds a lot like relativism. Truth does not care about your relative view point.
Seems to me the more honest approach would be to start questioning and believe in the Bible when you could prove it right? Have you ever thought if you were born in the middle east you might now just be saying "I'll believe in the Koran or Vedic texts unless or until someone proves it wrong".
Second your faith in Dr. Kent Hovind and his "Geology" may need some unbiased examination. First Hovind is not a Geologist and second he is not a Doctor. I encourage yourself to do a little honest searching.
Third if you are debating the question of the age of the earth, young or old. I recommend that you research angular unconformities. The interesting aspect about unconformities is that you can witness them directly and can bypass all the evidence of radioisotopes and things that cannot be view with your senses. Unconformities, such as Siccar Point a famous outcrop on the Scottish coast, are the geologic features which convinced (Christian Geologist) Hutton and Lyell that the earth was old. An unconformity requires a serial string of geologic events each taking long periods of time such as:
Layered Deposition
Lithification
Tilting and uplift
Erosion
Layered Depoistion (again)
Lithification (again)
Erosion (again) etc.
If you are looking for Geologist makeing more sense than Hovind check out Glenn Morton a former yec, who could not honestly uphold the yec philosphy after the evaluating a preponderance of evidence.
Do you realize you just stumbled into Bush's campaign philosophy? It was this very image that he so often restorted to. Bah Washington and their "fuzzy math" you need a man who is just a "awh shucks" sort of guy and can see through all the baloney.
Actually most of the global warming models involving the north Atlantic oceanic conveyor predicts northern Europe will plunge into a new ice age. Brrr.... That is why we selfish Americans are not overly concerned about it.
Actually it is better than you think. If you live in one of the interior states then the beach will come to you....
For the those clueless people, like myself, RSN does not stand for the "Royal Singapore Navy" or the Religious Science of Nashville but for "Real, Soon now" which to the initiate could alternately mean "Real Soon, Possibly Never".
I guess you need to be a science fiction fanzine fanboy or a regular reader of "Chaos Manor" to know this. Tribal Knowledge...
Edison meet Slasdot
Interesting point. Who wants the Ayatollah or Stalin around for a century. My thought was of what good people could do with more time but I never thought about what bad people could do. You point taken so I suggest therefore we, impose forced retirement, loss of voting rights and inelgibility for public office at 100. Ah more free time to play with the great-great-great grandkids and relish the concept of compound interest.
This interperation is quite different than yours. I quote "The subject matter which is the command to the father not to accept death so easily ..." and "Even though wise men know that they cannot keep death away forever and especially if they have not accomplished their goals in life, they don't accept death easily; they "Do not go gentle . . . ."
err... designed is a now a loaded word - wrong choice. But reading some of the other comments above there are plenty of people who think that to die is just the orderly way things should be - don't mess with it. It alway pisses me off when people can't think outside of a box. The same arguement could be made about the first discover of agriculture, about how now socities will now be stable and the lifespans will double - doom doom now everone back to hunting mammoths.
Compensate birth rates like what is happening in industrial socities now.
Finding ways to accomodate more people without destroying the environment.
Extending our civiliation into the solar system and beyond which is good idea anyways - since having all your DNA stuck at the bottom of gravity well on a knownly unstable platform is not a good long term idea.
err can you define "quality". When you say "life is short, but beautiful on account" on whose or what account. To take your conclusion to the extreme the most beautiful and quality filled life would be those that a week live.
Longevity will provide the next inflection point of human capacity and progress. Imagine if the great people of science could continue to contribute and innovate for the equivalent of several lifetimes. Gauss was the last mathematician who was said to be able to be conversant with the entire spectrum of mathematics. Currently it takes a human a decade to two just to be abreast of a specific field of science to be able to make any significant contributions. The period of time available to advance our understanding is getting shorter and shorter due to increase in the body of knowledge and our limited life times.
I know there will be the crowd that says - but we were designed to die. That is bunk! Self aware intelligence is bound and destined to perpetuated and proliferate.
How exactly is this different than froogle....
Ok. Am I the only one, having a somewhat weak immune system, that is not in the least bit worried about a pandemic? ....