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Space Spiders to Assemble Satellites in Orbit
Grubby Games writes "New Scientist reports that a JAXA mission to determine whether spider-like robots could construct complex structures in space is set to launch in January 2006. The spider bots could build large structures by crawling over a 'web' released from a larger spacecraft. The engineers behind the project hope the robots will eventually be used to construct colossal solar panels for satellites that will transmit solar energy back to Earth."
I for one welcome our new robotic spider overlords. Really, that is cool.
The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
oh wait...
Such spider robots could one day be used to fit pieces of a large solar array or reflector on top of the netting. in R&D, when they say "one day..." it's either a bone for the funding agency or the media, or some interesting application on paper that has a slim chance of making it to production. I just thought it was more concrete based on the title of the story. Oh well...no asimov stories about crazy robots in space yet.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
They tell us that nuclear stuff in space would be dangerous. Irresponsible.
But if these spider robots were nuclear powered, they'd have greater power.
And with greater power comes greater responsibility.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
So where were the spiders while the fly tried to break our balls?
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Part of the problem is getting the construction materials up there to begin with. You still have to send up a rocket to get solar panels, etc, to the spiders. This just feels like scientists wanting to build a new toy to me.
JAXA and a web ... way to confuse a techie!
OMG! The Replicators are here.
:-\
:-(
You bastards, you have no idea what you are letting loose on the world.
They'd make an artifical Sam Carter, and have her all for themselves.
So let me guess we are going to have a 50ft thick cable floating from earth where these solar panels are located in space, god might trip over it emagine the consequences for that.
For many things, space construction is a much more logical option. Things don't have to be built to withstand the strain of being sent up from the ground on a rocket... I would definitely say that space construction is the way to go...
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http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/index.shtml
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NASA has announced the development and deployment of giant cans of 'Space RAID'.
JAXA engineer Nobuyuki Kaya responded to news of the development with the remark, "RAID???!", just before his head exploded in a puff of smoke.
...and Charlton Heston sees his space buddy turn sideways in the spider zoo with a gaping suction hole in his head, "you ate up his brain, you bloody arachnids!"
Anyone played Sim City 2000 lately?
The screws for the assembly is sorted on-the-spot by a nearby located well-trained team of insects.
Seems more like a novelty than a viable solution.
With an area measured in sq. kilometers, and having to face the Sun (along the gravitational vector for any object being drawn by the Sun's gravity), I wonder if being struck by a "cosmic object" might be a serious concern for these solar panels they want to build.
This seems like an interesting concept, but a 10 minute sub-orbital experiment is certainly a "first step" at best. Some details on how the robots actually attach themselves to the "web" and move around, and how they would actually perform some useful work would have been interesting.
From the article: The satellite will be deployed from a rocket on a sub-orbital trajectory. This means scientists will have only 10 minutes of microgravity in which to perform their tests before the craft starts its descent back to Earth and eventually burns up in the atmosphere.
I find it interesting that this research is being done with a suborbital launcher. People often dismiss ventures like SpaceShipOne and Virgin Galactic because they aren't orbital, but perhaps the cost efficiencies of private ventures could help suborbital space research?
Does anyone have an idea of how much suborbital launches currently cost, and how this compares to Virgin Galactic's prices? Of course, one would likely need to add some sort of satellite deployment mechanism...
Now here's a technology we should all be able to get behind. By building in orbit, we can make spacecraft much larger and more sophisticated, from probes and satellites to huge passenger liners (if we have anywhere to go). We can make all sorts of things better and cheaper--optical lenses, crystals, precious gems, you name it. But it's not the incentives or the ability that will keep this from happening.
No, it's the problem of who owns space. Who collects taxes for orbital manufacturing? Who pays for the infrastructure to shuttle things back and forth from orbit? The ambitious and egalitarian notions that space is for all of mankind is exactly right; the problem is that we haven't progressed far enough on the ground to deal with that reality. Entering space was supposed to promote the idea that we're all on the same little rock together and that we have to face the much bigger galaxy on a united front, as citizens of the same planet. But it just hasn't happened.
Despite the benefits, I don't think we're ready for the consequences yet. Just because we've advanced enough so we can do a thing doesn't mean we should do that thing.
It is scaring me that press releases from NASA sounds just about like press releases from IBM. AJAX or JAXA? XML, eXtensible Markup Language, or LMX, Lunar Mission '10? I'm confused and minding it less and less.
WARNING: Smoking this sig may cause lowered IQ, insanity or short term memory loss. It is also really bad for your monit
Thanks again, Japan, for making things horrendously more complicated than they need to be. Spiders??? So many moving parts...
This is just another excuse to post an article with the letters A-J-A-X in it!! I call conspiracy. hehe
Last I checked, NASA didn't have a whole lot to do with JAXA, other than a little partnership here and there on things... but I guess maybe you didn't want to expend the effort to read 6 words into the post to see "JAXA" and just assumed it was NASA. So much effort...
This is NASA's fourth try at this, at least. The Flight Telerobotic Servicer was the first. NASA blew $288 million on that without producing working hardware. Then there was the Robotic Satellite Servicer. Then there was a sort of "flying PDA" for the ISS. This time, at least, they're trying something small first.
Aiming 1 Billion watt microwave beams at Earth isn't a very good idea.
Spiders yes. Blofeld no.
This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
The submitter just saw a chance to use "JAXA" and "web" in a story relating to neither AJAX nor the internet.
welcome our new "I For One..." overlords, who will no doubt reveal themselves in this thread many times over.
it's 'a lot' not 'alot'. There is no English language word 'alot'. FYI.
Signed,
Phineas Q. Butterfat
Research on Large Membrane Furoshiki Satellite
FYI:
Furoshiki is traditional wrapping-cloth in Japan.
Often, old women use Furoshiki as a substitute of bag.
For example, when carrying a watermelon, Furoshiki is used as follows.
Suika-zustumi
Much like they have lead the way in innovative implementations of technology, I'm curious to see what they do with space. Their research into robotics (probably partially inspired by mecha fanboys) could probably contribute a lot to space exploration.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
I think that this could be interesting. I wish there were more details in the article. Photovoltaics in space have promise, if they can be done cheaply. Someone here asked if they'd act like sails -- well I think that they might, a little, but perhaps they could be put into orbit in such a way that they could tack around the planet, so as not to be pushed too far into space. This would require some reaction mass, true, but perhaps when they orbit around to the night side of earth their orbit could be elliptical enough to scoop some atmospheric gas.
Does anyone know how many watts (lumens, whatever) of energy is available at approximately the distance of the earth from Sol? How about at Mars, and Venus? Just to try to get an idea of how much power might really be available.
..nuclear stuff would be safer in space, at least moreso than Earth.
I mean, there's a lot more space out there than there is Earth.
I could see dangers from nuclear powered spiders being in a low orbit, but eh.
What could possibly go wrong?
Danger Will Robinson!
Ziggy played guitar,
jamming good with Wired and Geeky,
The Spiders from Mars....
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
...spider robots build solar panels on you!
Spider bots??
Anyone else thinking deus ex?... *sigh* God I loved that game..
Who else read these books by Kim Stanley Robinson?
Do you see the sig? Do you have it in your sights? Why yes, Miss Moneypenny...
Fred Saberhagen has an uneasy feeling about this.
...), but automated space replication would sure heat up the coming military space race in a higher ground sort of way.
Seriously(?), is this one step closer to the 'smart pebbles' of 'star wars'? - Reagan's not Lucas's. Not passing any ideological judgement on the incoming tide of technology (like it or not, here it comes
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
Who knew that Asimovs laws would end up being 'INDEX, NOFOLLOW'.
tsk.
Oooooooooh I get it now...
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I agree. With all the sarcasm about Hayabusa probe failures, it has been underreported how innovative the mission is in the field of autonomous navigation. Both NASA and ESA are doing a lot of research in the same field, as it's what is badly needed in order to make robotic exploration more and more effective, especially when your probe is 2 UA away and the Sun gets in the way of control signals. But the Japanese can build on decades of AI research that most of us laughed at one time or another. What is an Asimo robot good for, after all? Put something similar on Mars with the ability to think by itself "What's that unusual shiny patch? I'll take a closer look at it while I wait for Mission Control's next assignment...". Then you (them, the Japanese) get maybe 75% of what a human explorer can discover (or build) while spending less than 10% as much.
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
The test is being done with a suborbital sounding rocket, they are not going into orbit. The test will experience weightlessness for 10 minutes and then tumble back to earth.
They have no budget for orbital tests and the submitter could have known that if he read/researched his own story.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
Did anyone else just think "holy FUCK we're screwed!"
Clearly "floating in a most peculiar way" ;-)
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Ziggy played guitar!
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Though "selling real estate on the sun" is not truly what I describe, it still applies that if large solar catchers are deployed, then a shadow will be created. If that shadow is cast upon the surface of the earth, then a given region will be denied the usual-strength shower of photons (and other solar radiation). If the "recovered" (to borrow a term from the oil industry) light is redirected from a path NOT leading to the earth's surface (a bank shot of concentrated light energy), then there will still be a "lane" of shadow to be cast across the solar system, potentially shading alien worlds light years away (or will they even notice?). If solar sails are widely employed (for transportation), these dark lanes could be consider the light equivalent to the Doldrums here on earth.
The earth receiving stations for such a light concentration system would need to be distributed at points around the globe, and some sort of safety system would also be required to prevent the concentrator/reflector from scorching a stripe across the earth's surface as the planet rotates. Such a reflector system could be abused as a weapon. For me, it would be not a question of "if", but "when".
The best location for the reflectors would be in geosychronous orbit, located on the periphery of the "dark side" of the earth, catching light that has already gone past earth and directing it back toward the night side of the planet, where it can do the most good through the shortest distribution paths. And because the energy would be arriving as "light", it would be inefficient to convert it to some other form for distribution. A system of light pipes could be used to distribute it to consumers, where it could be directly used for illumination or converted to heat which can, in turn, then be converted to electricity or mechanical (kinetic) energy.
Our traditional view of solar energy being bridged into electricity (to be compatible with our current power distribution grid) will be viewed as inefficient and antiquated.
Clearly, these 'rocket scientists' never saw the Lost in Space movie. On the upside, it'll give us a reason to shoot Joey into space.
This reminds me of the commander unit from Total Annihilation. Hooray for nuclear-powered nanobot-spraying robot overlords!
"No one owns space. People can own things within space, but you can't say "This orbit is mine. Go find another one." "
Not true, I'm afraid. The ITU assigns orbits to commsats in Geo orbits. These rights can be traded, etc. So, in effect, certain particularly valuable orbits are already owned.
"Fifty million Americans can't be wrong," said Rep. Billy Tauzin. Gore - 50,999,897 Bush - 50,456,002
All hail the spidersbots! A new day dawns. Dream on... More garbage in our orbits to avoid hitting in the future.
Reminds me of Powersat by Ben Bova
In that story eight pods eight radial cables rotated around the center of the web to maintain tension. Incoming packages would be caught in the centre of the web, wand the spinning pod would be drawn intowards the center to absorb the kinetic energy as the web bowed out.
Any work that needed to be done on the web was done by numerous spider-bots.
There are interesting projects, yes. But JAXA shows a shocking lack of willingness to share. Case in point: Hayabusa has some excellent shots of the asteroid. So where's the high definition map available for public download? Where's the raw image site (à la JPL's Cassinni) where the public can download the latest processed and unprocessed images? You want publicity, then put your product out there. Show landscapes (real and virtual), named features, etc. In short, make the work as exciting to the public as it is (presumably) to the scientists working on it.
JAXA seems to be keeping all it's data to itself. Great. And so what will make the news? The mission failures. After all, what else is there for the press to work with?
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
Dr Wierd: Release the phone spiders!!!
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
Hi you're not funny.
spiders to build satellites that will transmit solar energy back to Earth. The satellites could reflect and concentrate the Sun's rays.
Well sure, why don't we just hand them their revenge on a silver platter. This is exactly what they've been dreaming of ever since children first brought magnifying glasses into their backyards.
ôó
Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space.
-Deep Space Homer
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/1F13.html
I hope they have a safety mechanism for beaming back a concentrated beam of energy from the sun (aka "Death Ray"). Just think about it, a one degree tilt from the satellite panels, and Tokyo gets sizzled. Oops.
As for the spiders, what happens when the construction materials get too big for the spiders? Will they construct larger and larger spiders to handle the load? Or perhaps a "space ant" is more in order (I've seen them carry away whole picnic baskets!).
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For a second there, I thought the article summary was refering to one of the projects here at USC, the Superbot, part of our Polymorphic robotics Laboratory. Superbot is really about chains of tiny robots that can connect together to adapt to the particular task at hand. I know know low-G environments is one of our targets (NASA funded) and we have 2D air hockey table prototypes, and even toyed with underwater robots. But the videos show we have a long ways to go.
Anm
That's a good -and sort of expensive- plan there. sounds like a fun way to spend taxpayer dollars but who cares how much the stupid taxpayer pays out in taxes. They need the Energy, so stick it to em! http://www.newpath4.com/millenialdawnpowerandlight secure21.htm#AnsweringyourquestionThereisnomathdif ferenceeitherwayyouwriteitEequalsmc2isthesameasmc2 equalsEPluginthesamenumbersgetthesameansweroutWhat makesthemdifferentispsychologicalWhatmakesitdiffer entisthedifferenceinresultsEequalsmc2gaveusasingle bangweaponmc2equalsEgivesusatimedreleasepowerrunni ngageneratortomakearegularreleaseofelectriccurrent orForceasdesiredResultsResultsequalsresultsOrdoesi tmassatonetimespeedolight2atonetimeequalsEAbombato netimeormassonetimexspeedselectableequalsEonetimex 60timespersecondequalsHousecurrentHzItsthedifferen cebetweentotalcontrolvsdevastatingtotalnocontrolSo youhavehomeelectriccurrentoryouhaveSpacecraftForce dependingontheselectedtimingspeedweightofballsands oonSelectablePowerLevelfiringspersecondperApplicat ionWhatIhaveshownyouiscontrolleddevastationLikeour Sun
http://www.geocities.jp/aonobb/mind.jpg
But will it break the back button?