A tax is an involuntary monetary obligation If I want to buy an iPAQ or a HP Jordna to run NetBSD, part of the price goes to Microsoft.
In 1986, when I wanted to buy a Compaq PC, part of the money of the price went to Microsoft.
Whether or not Microsoft gets one penny of yours is entirely your decision. In a strict sense yes. If I want a sony laptop, or a iPAQ, then Microsoft gets more than one penny of mine. My choice seems to be to steal the sony laptop/iPAQ (so I don't pay Microsoft) or pay microsoft, if I want the sony/iPAQ.
Would you prefer the term "user fee"? How about "mandatory license"? Microsoft tax is also a correct term, because the payment is for software I don't want and won't use.
Unix Roots? Us old Unix hacks have heard for years that Unix was dead.
So Unix is not a threat.
Open Source? The GPL? Given the tying of the GPL to Linux, if the 'strenght' is the 'GPL', then turn the strength into a problem.
This is the opening volly of the 'lets slam the GPL' by Microsoft. Allchin is on message. If they can get enough people to believe "Open Souce is BAD...GPL is BAD" then Microsoft wins.
1) Up until June 12th, 1999 *MANY* people/companies were in violation of the 4 clause BSD licence. These days, the only way you can 'rip off' BSD code is to remove the BSD copyrite.
2) Microsoft's own attempts at making their own TCP/IP stack blew goats. (and, it can be argued there are goats still being blown) And Linux has had, what, 3 'total re-writes' of the TCP/IP stack? How does the internet and TCP/IP benefit from having poorly written TCP/IP implementations trying to talk to the rest of the net? How do the projects benefit from re-invention, when all they have to do respect the wishes of the copyrite of the TCP/IP stack....and just not remove said copyrite?
What would Microsoft do with extra resources? Write OS software that one could be proud of?
If the goal of establishment of Intellectual Property is to create economic advantage for the holder of IP, then yes, the GPL will remove the economic advantage of IP over time. Sometimes the IP is expressed as software.
The GPL does exactly what RMS intended.
The fun part will be to see if Microsoft can gain traction on pointing out the IP issues, trotting out how Corel had trouble compling with the GPL, How the GPLed embedded linux in the virgin webplayer was not abided by. I can hear it now.... "if the GPL is *SO* simple, why did corel blow it? How about the failed Virgin webplayer....did it fail because of GPL enforcement?" If they can get companies to feel the 'advantage' of the GPL is a 'disadvantage', the people who've been pushing "open source == GNU/Linux" will have to scramble to start pointing out the existance of BSD.
Microsoft has been able to bury various products by Lotus, IBM, WordPerfect, Borland, Corel and Novell. The GPL might just suffer the same fate.
Let the games begin!
Re:In action yes...but gives lip-service to BSD
on
ESR On XML-RPC
·
· Score: 1
Most linux distros ship with fetchmail. Yet ESR's fetchmail site has RPM's of fetchmail. Why have the RPM's on the fetchmail site, if distro's ship with it? Why not equal treatment for BSD and Linux on the home page?
Fetchmail is supported on BSD, but NOT by the author. When the author says BSD should have more support, then doesn't provide that support, how much credibility should said author get?
Oh and your link should be:
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/ 4. x-STABLE/packages/mail/fetchmail-5.6.5.tgz
where you change the 4.x-STABLE depending on the system you have.
Note too how the Newton was showing a profit AFTER Gil announced the spin-off.
Yes, being an Apple product was something the Newton developers had to make excuses for all the time.
In action yes...but gives lip-service to BSD
on
ESR On XML-RPC
·
· Score: 2
In action, sure. Fetchmail has no pre-done BSD binaries, the maintainer of the port on FreeBSD is Vlle Eerola, and when he is talking in public, he rarely mentions BSD and Linux when discussing Open Source OSes....just Linux.
But he has said on more than one occation (on tape in a public forum) that he feels that the BSD's should get more press than they do. He's also said that he feels the BSD kernel is better written/maintained. (don't believe that? How about the ESR e-mail to Linus where he suggests that the Linux kernel should move to a 'bsd model' and use CVS)
ESR is in a position to promote non-GPLed systems, yet chooses not to. He gives lip-service to BSD, but doesn't put his actions where his mouth is. But giving lip-service to non-GPL systems is BETTER than most of the 'linux leadership' does.
The good news here is, with Linux loaded on a Zarus we should be able to use any of the great languages that Linux already supports to flood that market with good software
The 'good software' needs a diet. Mozilla is an example of some code needing a diet if your target is a PDA. Almost ALL code 'written today' could use a diet if your target is a PDA.
No one will care about the Zarus if it doesn't ship with useable software. People want a useable device. If the product is not useable, few will buy it. Adding 'linux' to a product is no magic pixie dust, even though that seems to be the way a large number of/.ers think.
In 1997 the 'talk' was about Palm and Windows CE. No mention of the Newton, even though more 2X00's were being sold and the Newton division was showing a profit, you had real handwriting rec, text to speech, voice rec, sound recording, and the ability to play movies.
Psion just doesn't have the market share in the US to get mention.
AFAIK the open BSD variants were started 2 years after Linux
Really?
BSD started out in late 1977 as a kit of additional software and patches to AT&T's UNIX version 6. The source was aviable and open to anyone who had the proper AT&T License.
Given you have a linux POV, perhaps this link would be of help in educating you.
it could be argued that they wouldn't have taken off without Linux as an example that it can be done. And making that argument might fly with blind "the world is Linux" zealots, but the reality is Linux is based on Minix, and BSD's roots go back to 1977.
But now that you have been educated, you won't make that mistake, will you?
The Germans have a law about printers getting taxed. America charges you an addl. fee on VCR tapes.
Where to *I* register that all my works are copywrited, and saving my words-o-wisdom is worth $10,000,000.00 every time it is stored.
Because *SOME* of the computers might see or store my words, therefore everyone should pay me something. What ya think? $250,000 a year from the EU body extorting the money from all computer owners?
press release Merinta Ships Software And Services For Internet Appliance Network And Virgin
iBrow(TM) Solution Delivered For WebPlayer(TM) Net Appliance Highlights First Media-Rich, Full-Featured Browser Running On The Linux Operating System
Given this is the case, and the license shipped with the boxes excludes access to the source, this product was shipped in violation. Yet, no one has used the GPL to get the source.
Do you actually have proof beyond the link to QNX corp? No? Thought not.
switch abck to Linux. Localization in Linux is improving, but how close is total Linux support for languages like Japanese and Hebrew that are difficult to fit into your normal, left-to-right, single byte character infrastructure?
So why the Linux adjenda? The origianl author went out of his/her way to NOT mention Linux.
FreeBSD's ports collection supports 400+ Japanese localizations, 70+ Chinese, 20+ Russian, 9+ Vietamese, 2 French and 2 Hebrew. There is a reason for $10 million in investments from Japan in FreeBSD in the past few months. Combined with the 15-20% of the Open Source OS market FreeBSD has, FreeBSD is making fine progress in internationalization, thank you very much.
The people who *WRITE* code need to think a far bigger picture than the closed-world Linux only mind-think of Cliff and dvk. Show that you are a 'think big' kinda coder. Read up on unicode, usage of I18N/L18N or even the physically impaired. Such is not done by most code authors.
WinterKnight, the computer is a tool for communication. So you have a choice: Use the tools you have, *OR* (re)write tools to do what you want to do. Contact Mozilla, and see who has expressed an interest in making hooks for hebrew. Pick the tools you need, then make ports happen to unicode. And, try to get authors of code to design for Unicode/physically hampered and to write portable software. Having a 2nd machine and using VNC so you have one display, a switchbox to the 2nd machine (one display, one keyboard), or using a product like VMware and running Windows as a virtual machine are other options besides multiboot. These solutions avoid the time multibooting takes.
The duke of URL did a quake benchmark. And FreeBSD running Quake via the Linux compatibility layer ran quake FASTER than the linux he benchmarked with. Not by much, but faster.
for $129.95+s&h or $75 at compusa, you can buy the 'FreeBSD Desktop'
All you Linux lovers (one of which I too have become) write for Linux.
And who's fault is it that people are not writing portable code? If you don't ask for 'linux binaries' to be supported on *ALL* Linux ELF machines, then how will vendors be enlightened enough to make sure that their code works with SCO/Sun/BSD *AND* Linux (in elf-format)?
Partly the preception that Linux == Open Source (and that is *ALL* that is Open source) and partly people are not taught to write portable code.
RedHat's "open source development labs", VA Linux's "Open Source developers network" do little to help expand the mind beyond the linux-only mindset.
And the teeny-boppers (mostly) do not WANT To talk to us old goats who wrote portable Unix code. At least this hasn't changed. But, if you *ARE* one of the 'old portable code' writers....have you tutored someone?
Granted BSD does have an awesome ports collection, it's just a tad outdated
Make update in/usr/ports updates things fine on my end.
I just noticed they fixed an issue once they were made aware of it,
No, when IBM was made aware of the issue they created by taking an ID assigned to others in standards documents, they said "Don't run FreeBSD on the machine" not "Oh, we made a mistake"
i don't care about the research
Yes, don't let facts get in your way. The fact is the reaction of IBM was 'too bad FreeBSD', not ' this is an oversite, lets fix it'
untestable-netblocks.orbs.org - netblocks known to contain open relays and which have been proven to be blocking the ORBS tester or who have demanded that ORBS not test.
Note how if you do not like the testing methods or the way ORBS is run, and ask not to be tested, you are lumped into the same space as 'known open relays'.
*sigh* No change in policy, just a shuffling of the deck chairs on the titanic is all.
Slashdot Mirror
Does the YOPY run NetBSD? Any BSD?
There is no Microsoft tax
Yes there is.
A tax is an involuntary monetary obligation
If I want to buy an iPAQ or a HP Jordna to run NetBSD, part of the price goes to Microsoft.
In 1986, when I wanted to buy a Compaq PC, part of the money of the price went to Microsoft.
Whether or not Microsoft gets one penny of yours is entirely your decision.
In a strict sense yes. If I want a sony laptop, or a iPAQ, then Microsoft gets more than one penny of mine. My choice seems to be to steal the sony laptop/iPAQ (so I don't pay Microsoft) or pay microsoft, if I want the sony/iPAQ.
Would you prefer the term "user fee"? How about "mandatory license"? Microsoft tax is also a correct term, because the payment is for software I don't want and won't use.
If Linux is a threat....why is it a threat?
Unix Roots? Us old Unix hacks have heard for years that Unix was dead.
So Unix is not a threat.
Open Source? The GPL? Given the tying of the GPL to Linux, if the 'strenght' is the 'GPL', then turn the strength into a problem.
This is the opening volly of the 'lets slam the GPL' by Microsoft. Allchin is on message. If they can get enough people to believe "Open Souce is BAD...GPL is BAD" then Microsoft wins.
1) Up until June 12th, 1999 *MANY* people/companies were in violation of the 4 clause BSD licence. These days, the only way you can 'rip off' BSD code is to remove the BSD copyrite.
2) Microsoft's own attempts at making their own TCP/IP stack blew goats. (and, it can be argued there are goats still being blown) And Linux has had, what, 3 'total re-writes' of the TCP/IP stack? How does the internet and TCP/IP benefit from having poorly written TCP/IP implementations trying to talk to the rest of the net? How do the projects benefit from re-invention, when all they have to do respect the wishes of the copyrite of the TCP/IP stack....and just not remove said copyrite?
What would Microsoft do with extra resources? Write OS software that one could be proud of?
If the goal of establishment of Intellectual Property is to create economic advantage for the holder of IP, then yes, the GPL will remove the economic advantage of IP over time. Sometimes the IP is expressed as software.
The GPL does exactly what RMS intended.
The fun part will be to see if Microsoft can gain traction on pointing out the IP issues, trotting out how Corel had trouble compling with the GPL, How the GPLed embedded linux in the virgin webplayer was not abided by. I can hear it now.... "if the GPL is *SO* simple, why did corel blow it? How about the failed Virgin webplayer....did it fail because of GPL enforcement?" If they can get companies to feel the 'advantage' of the GPL is a 'disadvantage', the people who've been pushing "open source == GNU/Linux" will have to scramble to start pointing out the existance of BSD.
Microsoft has been able to bury various products by Lotus, IBM, WordPerfect, Borland, Corel and Novell. The GPL might just suffer the same fate.
Let the games begin!
Most linux distros ship with fetchmail. Yet ESR's fetchmail site has RPM's of fetchmail. Why have the RPM's on the fetchmail site, if distro's ship with it? Why not equal treatment for BSD and Linux on the home page?
/ 4. x-STABLE/packages/mail/fetchmail-5.6.5.tgz
Fetchmail is supported on BSD, but NOT by the author. When the author says BSD should have more support, then doesn't provide that support, how much credibility should said author get?
Oh and your link should be:
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386
where you change the 4.x-STABLE depending on the system you have.
Note too how the Newton was showing a profit AFTER Gil announced the spin-off.
Yes, being an Apple product was something the Newton developers had to make excuses for all the time.
In action, sure. Fetchmail has no pre-done BSD binaries, the maintainer of the port on FreeBSD is Vlle Eerola, and when he is talking in public, he rarely mentions BSD and Linux when discussing Open Source OSes....just Linux.
But he has said on more than one occation (on tape in a public forum) that he feels that the BSD's should get more press than they do. He's also said that he feels the BSD kernel is better written/maintained. (don't believe that? How about the ESR e-mail to Linus where he suggests that the Linux kernel should move to a 'bsd model' and use CVS)
ESR is in a position to promote non-GPLed systems, yet chooses not to. He gives lip-service to BSD, but doesn't put his actions where his mouth is. But giving lip-service to non-GPL systems is BETTER than most of the 'linux leadership' does.
The good news here is, with Linux loaded on a Zarus we should be able to use any of the great languages that Linux already supports to flood that market with good software
/.ers think.
The 'good software' needs a diet. Mozilla is an example of some code needing a diet if your target is a PDA. Almost ALL code 'written today' could use a diet if your target is a PDA.
No one will care about the Zarus if it doesn't ship with useable software. People want a useable device. If the product is not useable, few will buy it. Adding 'linux' to a product is no magic pixie dust, even though that seems to be the way a large number of
Welcome to the PDA world Pat.
In 1997 the 'talk' was about Palm and Windows CE. No mention of the Newton, even though more 2X00's were being sold and the Newton division was showing a profit, you had real handwriting rec, text to speech, voice rec, sound recording, and the ability to play movies.
Psion just doesn't have the market share in the US to get mention.
Yes, like the linux kernel has done. The code admits to being from BSD, yet the copywrite noticed is scrubbed.
BSD developers will get nothing in return
Really?
Apple submitted patches to back to OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreBSD, depending on which code they say needed the patch.
Most open source developers don't get anything in return when their code is used. It is the nature of the beast.
AFAIK the open BSD variants were started 2 years after Linux
Really?
BSD started out in late 1977 as a kit of additional software and patches to AT&T's UNIX version 6. The source was aviable and open to anyone who had the proper AT&T License.
Given you have a linux POV, perhaps this link would be of help in educating you.
it could be argued that they wouldn't have taken off without Linux as an example that it can be done.
And making that argument might fly with blind "the world is Linux" zealots, but the reality is Linux is based on Minix, and BSD's roots go back to 1977.
But now that you have been educated, you won't make that mistake, will you?
The Germans have a law about printers getting taxed. America charges you an addl. fee on VCR tapes.
Where to *I* register that all my works are copywrited, and saving my words-o-wisdom is worth $10,000,000.00 every time it is stored.
Because *SOME* of the computers might see or store my words, therefore everyone should pay me something. What ya think? $250,000 a year from the EU body extorting the money from all computer owners?
most of the people reading this would still be using Windoze.
Really?
BSD is an Open Source OS. Works like GNU/linux and in fact some say it works BETTER.
To make such a statement, you must not have known that BSD based open source OSes exist.
He also was (is?) listed as a committer on NetBSD.
And gave patched back to OpenBSD also.
press release
Merinta Ships Software And Services For Internet Appliance Network And Virgin
iBrow(TM) Solution Delivered For WebPlayer(TM) Net Appliance Highlights First Media-Rich, Full-Featured Browser Running On The Linux Operating System
Given this is the case, and the license shipped with the boxes excludes access to the source, this product was shipped in violation. Yet, no one has used the GPL to get the source.
Do you actually have proof beyond the link to QNX corp? No? Thought not.
Don't think 'linux can't be taken away' or that 'the GPL protects'?
Then explain the use of GPLed Linux as a base in the virgin webplayer, yet the box/software had a license that forbid your 'rights' to source code.
Go ahead. Show the 'protection' of the GPL.
switch abck to Linux.
Localization in Linux is improving, but how close is total Linux support for languages like Japanese and Hebrew that are difficult to fit into your normal, left-to-right, single byte character infrastructure?
So why the Linux adjenda? The origianl author went out of his/her way to NOT mention Linux.
FreeBSD's ports collection supports 400+ Japanese localizations, 70+ Chinese, 20+ Russian, 9+ Vietamese, 2 French and 2 Hebrew. There is a reason for $10 million in investments from Japan in FreeBSD in the past few months. Combined with the 15-20% of the Open Source OS market FreeBSD has, FreeBSD is making fine progress in internationalization, thank you very much.
The people who *WRITE* code need to think a far bigger picture than the closed-world Linux only mind-think of Cliff and dvk. Show that you are a 'think big' kinda coder. Read up on unicode, usage of I18N/L18N or even the physically impaired. Such is not done by most code authors.
WinterKnight, the computer is a tool for communication. So you have a choice: Use the tools you have, *OR* (re)write tools to do what you want to do. Contact Mozilla, and see who has expressed an interest in making hooks for hebrew. Pick the tools you need, then make ports happen to unicode. And, try to get authors of code to design for Unicode/physically hampered and to write portable software. Having a 2nd machine and using VNC so you have one display, a switchbox to the 2nd machine (one display, one keyboard), or using a product like VMware and running Windows as a virtual machine are other options besides multiboot. These solutions avoid the time multibooting takes.
The duke of URL did a quake benchmark. And FreeBSD running Quake via the Linux compatibility layer ran quake FASTER than the linux he benchmarked with. Not by much, but faster.
for $129.95+s&h or $75 at compusa, you can buy the 'FreeBSD Desktop'
All you Linux lovers (one of which I too have become) write for Linux.
/usr/ports updates things fine on my end.
And who's fault is it that people are not writing portable code? If you don't ask for 'linux binaries' to be supported on *ALL* Linux ELF machines, then how will vendors be enlightened enough to make sure that their code works with SCO/Sun/BSD *AND* Linux (in elf-format)?
Partly the preception that Linux == Open Source (and that is *ALL* that is Open source) and partly people are not taught to write portable code.
RedHat's "open source development labs", VA Linux's "Open Source developers network" do little to help expand the mind beyond the linux-only mindset.
And the teeny-boppers (mostly) do not WANT To talk to us old goats who wrote portable Unix code. At least this hasn't changed. But, if you *ARE* one of the 'old portable code' writers....have you tutored someone?
Granted BSD does have an awesome ports collection, it's just a tad outdated
Make update in
FreeBSD is a pure server OS.
Really?
BSD Desktop edition
BSD Desktop Edition - Includes FreeBSD, The Complete FreeBSD Book, ApplixWare Office Suite 5.0, and Partition Magic (Special Edition)
Now that you know that BSD is a desktop OS, you don't need to run Linux, do you?
Well then what is 'linux'? A kernel?
how useless then.
That's right. Linux is useless.
Ever tried using a kernel without userspace?
I just noticed they fixed an issue once they were made aware of it,
No, when IBM was made aware of the issue they created by taking an ID assigned to others in standards documents, they said "Don't run FreeBSD on the machine" not "Oh, we made a mistake"
i don't care about the research
Yes, don't let facts get in your way. The fact is the reaction of IBM was 'too bad FreeBSD', not ' this is an oversite, lets fix it'
untestable-netblocks.orbs.org - netblocks known to contain open relays and which have been proven to be blocking the ORBS tester or who have demanded that ORBS not test.
Note how if you do not like the testing methods or the way ORBS is run, and ask not to be tested, you are lumped into the same space as 'known open relays'.
*sigh* No change in policy, just a shuffling of the deck chairs on the titanic is all.