Its quite possible for more than one person involved in the incident to have been in the wrong. All these articles are kind of strange as they try to spin it as "its either completely the cops fault or completely the SWATcaller's fault." It aint so.
They're not kidding when they say "sometimes its impossible". Microcode is NOT general purpose code. There's only so much you can do with microcode, and it often involves just messing with voltage timings and gates that are already part of the silicon. Granted, I'm sure some supply-demand / cost/benefit analysis is going on, but please challenge the assumption that they can just 'fix the bug' with microcode updates.
You largely can't reprogram what the CPU's underlying silicon actually does, using microcode. People keep talking about it like its some complete programming language. It is not.
a better analogy would be that it is similar to a program that is running the system for controlling railroad track switching. You can make the trains do a lot by making them switch tracks and change direction and so forth, but there's only so much you can do - the tracks they go on and the location of the switches are pre-set.
Oh for sure there are, but I'm talking about people who are in the mindset that matches the points above. Showing them evidence has zero effect.
There ARE some real conspiracies (see watergate, bigfoot, etc) which generally involve a small number of individuals, and in general are discovered somewhat quickly (timescale is hours to a couple years), but then you get the "grand" conspiracies which involves the to-the-deathbed collaboration of hundreds or thousands of people and multiple different international government and non-government institutions (some of which aren't our friends).
The problem is that once a person has fallen to "grand" conspiracy belief, they tend to be the kind that believes all others, big and small.
Basically, if you ever find yourself in a debate with someone who believes in a coverup of something that would take many thousands of people their entire lives to cover up from many different nations, you may as well stop debating. A conspiracy of that size unravels in months at most, hours more likely. The biggest such conspiracy to hold together was the landing by the allies during WW2, and that wasn't really a campaign to say something the opposite was happening, just that the landings were happening in a different place at a different time. And it only lasted just long enough to execute.
Once a person has been "caught" in a conspiracy theory is like being caught in a cult. They become evidence immune.
1. All evidence that disproves the conspiracy is planted and thus part of the conspiracy. It must be suppressed.
2. All evidence that can be construed as even remotely supporting the conspiracy is the only true evidence. It must be echoed.
3. All lack of evidence either way is proof of a cover up by the conspiracy. The lack of it proves the conspiracy.
4. Any authority figure that speaks out against the conspiracy is part of the conspiracy. They must be suppressed.
5. Any authority figure that agrees with the conspiracy is part of the enlightened ones and is the only trusted source of truth. They must be echoed.
Once someone has sunk that deep into a conspiracy theory (and I'm sure several readers have) there really isn't any point arguing with them or disagreeing with them or trying to engage with them in any meaningful way, they are lost.
This is sort of a half-fix but what would ultimately mean is that when a city installs a lot of solar/other stuff (for the benefit of their citizens to lower pollution/electricity costs/etc) and thus have excess cheap power to sell back to the grid or use, bitcoin miners would move in and use up all excess while its cheap, leading to the permanent residents of a town getting no cost benefit to doing it. They might even have to fire up the coal plants again to meet demand.
I can totally understand permanent residents of a city working with the council to basically say nope to that. They live there. Its their choice, thats how city governance works.
Otherwise what ends up happening is that the miners move in and starts increasing demand whenever the cost is under a certain amount, which means the cost has a strict floor at the price of bitcoin generation. It can never ever be cheaper than that, because the moment its cheaper than that, miners absorb all the excess, causing the cost of electricity to be tied to the price of bitcoin, something you probably don't want for your city if you live there, especially if you've been investing in infrastructure to reduce energy prices / clean pollution.
It gets worse, too. You might decide 'fine, let the market decide', so you are forced to build more electricity-producing plants to meet this rising demand and keep pushing costs down or face brownouts / blackouts in residential. Its really, really really expensive to build electric generation plants and the infrastructure to support them, and it takes a really long time, and they are expensive to maintain running, even if you 'turn them off'. But the miners move out whenever there's some other better opportunity elsewhere, leaving you with all this infrastructure your permanent residents payed for and are being taxed on...
The electricity company cannot produce infinite electricity at a whim. They have a certain amount of generation capacity, and when demand increases, they can build additional plants - but they are expensive to run and take a long time to build.
So at any given time there is a fixed amount of peak electricity available (you can't really store it) and the cities and companies basically run on estimates on how much is in use / will be needed, thats the allotment.
If a city were to suddenly draw 10x as much power, this is a problem, as it can stress the grid. It can be overcome by building additional production facilities, but that takes years.
DOesn't that mean that there's basically a giant free cache available to anyone who wants to store data out there? And because UDP is spoofable, people could store data in said cache without betraying where it came from?
unsecured Memcached servers could store data - par2'd data chunks, for example, similar to a newsgroup - along with indices / torrent tracker data / etc. And since they will store keys from spoofed UDP packets, there is no good way to figure out who put the data there.
The other thing that I've noticed is that the juniors nowdays do tend to move around a lot. They're much, much much more likely to quit after internship and take a job at a different big corp than YOUR big corp, after thanking you for all the training.
I've noticed that goes even moreso for juniors nowadays. More and more, people work very short stints at any given job, especially in silicon valley type jobs... When people keep taking other jobs, it doesn't make as much sense to spend what amounts to 50k+ of expert time mentoring them just so that they hop to a different place at the end of it.
This job-hopping trait seems to be a trait that is increasing in the younger generations - I won't judge whether its good or bad (in that hey, its up to them what they do with their life) but it does mean that it impacts mentoring decisions and how companies spend their money.
Basically, people signing up for 10.99 and then buying a giant exercise machine that costs many times more than the margin on shipping, binge watching everything, then letting the subscription die after one month, to open it again a couple months later when they do the same thing again.
Eventually it just doesn't make sense. Its one thing if its netflix and a human can only consume so much, its another thing when a single person can flood a delivery truck and incur hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of free shipping in one gulp.
They are starting to tighten their grip to the point where systems are starting to slip through their fingers.
Google's new strategy has definitely been walled-garden - for example look at the youtube vs amazon fire tv debacle.
They're starting to use the systems they already inhabit as leverage to wall people in.
Youtube cannot be sideloaded to Fire TVs because they don't include the giant bulk of google's "play store" and "Google services" which for some reason, youtube demands also be installed.
KODI does work though.
Pretty much. Given that the app literally already works on the fire devices and works pretty well, the only way they'd pull it is if they actually made an update to the app that checked whether it was on a fire device and specifically refused to work because of that.
for what its worth, for those interested - I got six hits. But they were for other addresses which may or may not be real.. 3 were pro-neutrality, 3 were anti-neutrality.
The pro neutrality ones were unique and well written, in general, maybe with one or two spelling mistakes. Short, and fairly to the point.
The anti-neutrality ones? well, here's an example of one of them. They were all like this or similar ones with words replaced. Its just a giant block of what looks to be randomly cut out of a much larger body of generated text or scraped data.
"which reclassified broadband as a public utility | well this language here is solid, in terms of a public utility the internet is a bulletin board no dissimilar to what you would find in a coffee shop. It's a public bulletin board. It is a public utility and it was created by the public for the public and the public has done the most work on the internet and has invested the most in the internet for every unit of investment an ISP has put into the internet the public has collectively put in 1,000,000 units of investment and quite frankly the public's interests outweigh the ISP's interests in terms of clout when it comes to the internet to whit the internet was created to be a public bulletin board and ISP's need to be informed that now that the metaphor that represents the internet has been created we can inform ISP's that the internet can be closed and we CAN go to an analog internet involving notebooks, binders, folders, we can live in a city where someone sees something on a coffee shop bulletin board and then write a note in their ledger and hands it off to their local man on the street right outside and go about their day WE DO NOT NEED THE INTERNET that needs to be said, word of mouth got us to the internet, and quite frankly internet service providers can charge as much as they want to provide internet service access because they provide the access to the internet as a private enterprise and let the economy speak if i know only the lindner's in cincinnati ohio could get access to the internet because they charged what the rate should be at $1,000,000 an hour to quote unquote surf the web I in my knowledge of things would move in ways that would provide the internet to people on the ground by developing websites on a local drive computer and saving websites on a thumb drive and there may be people that think they are a monopoly but not after all of the exposure that we have been given to the internet there is not a generation genius that eats at the genius bar at apple and we grew up with this and the finest thing ISP's could do noting the classification of broadband as a public utility is to work keep working keep providing access and conduct a collection of taxes to offset the living expenses of those involved internet service providing and we can afford a free internet but it is tax supported we pay a fee once a year at tax season instead of monthly fees and everyone gets access in the united states of america and we can experience something fluid in our economy to the extent that similar to a start from nothing business you work with what you have access to for nothing including skills and tools you have acquired and ISP's and the PUBLIC want a funded free internet ( note funded free internet is new language ) and we want our business platform and then in the next session of congress we can begin discussing PUBLIC UTILITIES WITHIN THE PUBLIC UTILITY such as facebook and twitter"
While I actually like the idea of being allowed to choose whether to donate a few cycles or to watch ads - I would always choose to donate cycles (no privacy problem, no malware problem, no security problem, no tracking problem...).
HOWEVER, this will end poorly
This is because websites tend to be greedy. They won't go "either ads or cryptomining". They will go ads AND cryptomining. Just like cable TV.
The problem with ubiquitous surveillance of the masses is not generally to get that one specific person, its to get the masses to self-regulate and self-report.
As long as for every 1 of you, there are 100s of 're-educated' upstanding citizens that will do the spying and reporting FOR you, you have no chance.
This is the real message and threat behind 1984. If you think its about how the government uses its power to specifically target people, you've missed the point. Its about a systematic narrowing of what people can see, how they are raised, and how they are taught to basically program them to truly believe what the authorities want them to believe and behave like the authorities want to behave.
Basically, the 'boot stamping on a human face forever' is not the surveillance - its the concept that if you can get into this kind of reprogrammed (mentally) society where the number of outliers is small enough to manage by a small security force - mainly because the vast majority of folks really believe in it and are willing to report their neighbors out of fear or true belief - you have reached basically a valley that can be impossible for society to escape out of. It can literally remain in that state forever, as no single individual can ever apply enough pressure or organize with enough others to make any real change.
The world of Orwell's 1984 is not a world where revolution gently simmers just underneath the surface, held in check only by a tenuous government hold on surveillance. Its a world that has already failed and will fail forever and ever, where the populate itself has already settled into that pattern where outliers get picked out and chewed up by the system due to being vastly outnumbered by the believers, where all is already lost, and would continue to be lost, even without the surveillance equipment. Its really the re-education and re-shaping of society, taking information away, censoring, changing school curriculums, changing what people feel and what they believe, that is what makes it permanent - and it can happen in as little as one or two generations.
While I believe that companies might need to pay a bit more on their profits, companies don't really operate like individuals. Essentially applying an "income tax" to companies is a terrible idea.
Companies which actually produce things (be it information, services or goods) operate by taking their income, and spending it on the raw materials - paying employees, purchasing ingredients, paying for operating costs, electricity, shipping, building rent, other contracts - and then outputting goods (information or services too) which they then sell in order to try to make more than it cost them to actually produce them so that they can continue to operate
Taxing the profits means that the company makes less and less for itself (and thus its growth could be curbed), so technically even if you tax 100% of the profit, the company could still stay in business (but not grow). But if you tax the revenue or income you are in danger of literally eating into its ability to even stay the same size. And taxes always tend to increase. So this is a slippery slope where it eventually becomes not just unprofitable to run a company but its a losing proposition because the tax can cut into the operating costs.
Some of the worst possible performance I have ever seen in my life has been from multiple antivirus softwares fighting with each other for access to a file.
For example, you browse to a folder that contains a zip file... Windows Defender starting to scan the file (it gets first dibs because hey, written by operating system manufacture, what do you think?), other antivirus hooks CreateFileW and starts to scan it too. Now you have two applications seeking back and forth over the ZIP FILE trying to unzip it so they can peer inside and "make it safe".
It extended what should have been small browsing operations from just a few seconds to many, many minutes.
If you're evaluating antivirus software, a good measure is how much raw data reads they do when you're just browsing your file system and not opening any actual files. Some of them halt processes and scan the entire file when the file is even just queried from the file table (not even when actually opened), and you end up with file iteration taking as long as it takes to read the entire file contents.
There is no place in this world for antivirus.
If they're so dumb that they can't stop from clicking on executables, install windows S on their computer and let them suffer it. Its still more effective than antivirus is.
Slashdot Mirror
Its quite possible for more than one person involved in the incident to have been in the wrong. All these articles are kind of strange as they try to spin it as "its either completely the cops fault or completely the SWATcaller's fault." It aint so.
They're not kidding when they say "sometimes its impossible". Microcode is NOT general purpose code. There's only so much you can do with microcode, and it often involves just messing with voltage timings and gates that are already part of the silicon. Granted, I'm sure some supply-demand / cost/benefit analysis is going on, but please challenge the assumption that they can just 'fix the bug' with microcode updates.
You largely can't reprogram what the CPU's underlying silicon actually does, using microcode. People keep talking about it like its some complete programming language. It is not.
a better analogy would be that it is similar to a program that is running the system for controlling railroad track switching. You can make the trains do a lot by making them switch tracks and change direction and so forth, but there's only so much you can do - the tracks they go on and the location of the switches are pre-set.
Oh for sure there are, but I'm talking about people who are in the mindset that matches the points above. Showing them evidence has zero effect.
There ARE some real conspiracies (see watergate, bigfoot, etc) which generally involve a small number of individuals, and in general are discovered somewhat quickly (timescale is hours to a couple years), but then you get the "grand" conspiracies which involves the to-the-deathbed collaboration of hundreds or thousands of people and multiple different international government and non-government institutions (some of which aren't our friends).
The problem is that once a person has fallen to "grand" conspiracy belief, they tend to be the kind that believes all others, big and small.
Basically, if you ever find yourself in a debate with someone who believes in a coverup of something that would take many thousands of people their entire lives to cover up from many different nations, you may as well stop debating. A conspiracy of that size unravels in months at most, hours more likely. The biggest such conspiracy to hold together was the landing by the allies during WW2, and that wasn't really a campaign to say something the opposite was happening, just that the landings were happening in a different place at a different time. And it only lasted just long enough to execute.
Once a person has been "caught" in a conspiracy theory is like being caught in a cult. They become evidence immune.
1. All evidence that disproves the conspiracy is planted and thus part of the conspiracy. It must be suppressed.
2. All evidence that can be construed as even remotely supporting the conspiracy is the only true evidence. It must be echoed.
3. All lack of evidence either way is proof of a cover up by the conspiracy. The lack of it proves the conspiracy.
4. Any authority figure that speaks out against the conspiracy is part of the conspiracy. They must be suppressed.
5. Any authority figure that agrees with the conspiracy is part of the enlightened ones and is the only trusted source of truth. They must be echoed.
Once someone has sunk that deep into a conspiracy theory (and I'm sure several readers have) there really isn't any point arguing with them or disagreeing with them or trying to engage with them in any meaningful way, they are lost.
This is sort of a half-fix but what would ultimately mean is that when a city installs a lot of solar/other stuff (for the benefit of their citizens to lower pollution/electricity costs/etc) and thus have excess cheap power to sell back to the grid or use, bitcoin miners would move in and use up all excess while its cheap, leading to the permanent residents of a town getting no cost benefit to doing it. They might even have to fire up the coal plants again to meet demand.
I can totally understand permanent residents of a city working with the council to basically say nope to that. They live there. Its their choice, thats how city governance works.
Otherwise what ends up happening is that the miners move in and starts increasing demand whenever the cost is under a certain amount, which means the cost has a strict floor at the price of bitcoin generation. It can never ever be cheaper than that, because the moment its cheaper than that, miners absorb all the excess, causing the cost of electricity to be tied to the price of bitcoin, something you probably don't want for your city if you live there, especially if you've been investing in infrastructure to reduce energy prices / clean pollution.
It gets worse, too. You might decide 'fine, let the market decide', so you are forced to build more electricity-producing plants to meet this rising demand and keep pushing costs down or face brownouts / blackouts in residential. Its really, really really expensive to build electric generation plants and the infrastructure to support them, and it takes a really long time, and they are expensive to maintain running, even if you 'turn them off'. But the miners move out whenever there's some other better opportunity elsewhere, leaving you with all this infrastructure your permanent residents payed for and are being taxed on...
The electricity company cannot produce infinite electricity at a whim. They have a certain amount of generation capacity, and when demand increases, they can build additional plants - but they are expensive to run and take a long time to build.
So at any given time there is a fixed amount of peak electricity available (you can't really store it) and the cities and companies basically run on estimates on how much is in use / will be needed, thats the allotment.
If a city were to suddenly draw 10x as much power, this is a problem, as it can stress the grid. It can be overcome by building additional production facilities, but that takes years.
DOesn't that mean that there's basically a giant free cache available to anyone who wants to store data out there? And because UDP is spoofable, people could store data in said cache without betraying where it came from?
unsecured Memcached servers could store data - par2'd data chunks, for example, similar to a newsgroup - along with indices / torrent tracker data / etc. And since they will store keys from spoofed UDP packets, there is no good way to figure out who put the data there.
:(
Just saying. Better than ddoses
The other thing that I've noticed is that the juniors nowdays do tend to move around a lot. They're much, much much more likely to quit after internship and take a job at a different big corp than YOUR big corp, after thanking you for all the training.
I've noticed that goes even moreso for juniors nowadays. More and more, people work very short stints at any given job, especially in silicon valley type jobs... When people keep taking other jobs, it doesn't make as much sense to spend what amounts to 50k+ of expert time mentoring them just so that they hop to a different place at the end of it.
This job-hopping trait seems to be a trait that is increasing in the younger generations - I won't judge whether its good or bad (in that hey, its up to them what they do with their life) but it does mean that it impacts mentoring decisions and how companies spend their money.
Yeah, this.
Basically, people signing up for 10.99 and then buying a giant exercise machine that costs many times more than the margin on shipping, binge watching everything, then letting the subscription die after one month, to open it again a couple months later when they do the same thing again.
Eventually it just doesn't make sense. Its one thing if its netflix and a human can only consume so much, its another thing when a single person can flood a delivery truck and incur hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of free shipping in one gulp.
From TFA, for those asking instead of reading, April 2018 is when the signature requirement will cease.
Most supermarkets already have some sort of deal where signature is only required on purchases larger than $50 anyway.
They are starting to tighten their grip to the point where systems are starting to slip through their fingers.
Google's new strategy has definitely been walled-garden - for example look at the youtube vs amazon fire tv debacle.
They're starting to use the systems they already inhabit as leverage to wall people in.
Youtube cannot be sideloaded to Fire TVs because they don't include the giant bulk of google's "play store" and "Google services" which for some reason, youtube demands also be installed. KODI does work though.
Pretty much. Given that the app literally already works on the fire devices and works pretty well, the only way they'd pull it is if they actually made an update to the app that checked whether it was on a fire device and specifically refused to work because of that.
I've got KODI installed but yeah, this will hurt a lot. It doesn't make me hate amazon though. it makes me hate google.
for what its worth, for those interested - I got six hits. But they were for other addresses which may or may not be real.. 3 were pro-neutrality, 3 were anti-neutrality.
The pro neutrality ones were unique and well written, in general, maybe with one or two spelling mistakes. Short, and fairly to the point.
The anti-neutrality ones? well, here's an example of one of them. They were all like this or similar ones with words replaced. Its just a giant block of what looks to be randomly cut out of a much larger body of generated text or scraped data.
"which reclassified broadband as a public utility | well this language here is solid, in terms of a public utility the internet is a bulletin board no dissimilar to what you would find in a coffee shop. It's a public bulletin board. It is a public utility and it was created by the public for the public and the public has done the most work on the internet and has invested the most in the internet for every unit of investment an ISP has put into the internet the public has collectively put in 1,000,000 units of investment and quite frankly the public's interests outweigh the ISP's interests in terms of clout when it comes to the internet to whit the internet was created to be a public bulletin board and ISP's need to be informed that now that the metaphor that represents the internet has been created we can inform ISP's that the internet can be closed and we CAN go to an analog internet involving notebooks, binders, folders, we can live in a city where someone sees something on a coffee shop bulletin board and then write a note in their ledger and hands it off to their local man on the street right outside and go about their day WE DO NOT NEED THE INTERNET that needs to be said, word of mouth got us to the internet, and quite frankly internet service providers can charge as much as they want to provide internet service access because they provide the access to the internet as a private enterprise and let the economy speak if i know only the lindner's in cincinnati ohio could get access to the internet because they charged what the rate should be at $1,000,000 an hour to quote unquote surf the web I in my knowledge of things would move in ways that would provide the internet to people on the ground by developing websites on a local drive computer and saving websites on a thumb drive and there may be people that think they are a monopoly but not after all of the exposure that we have been given to the internet there is not a generation genius that eats at the genius bar at apple and we grew up with this and the finest thing ISP's could do noting the classification of broadband as a public utility is to work keep working keep providing access and conduct a collection of taxes to offset the living expenses of those involved internet service providing and we can afford a free internet but it is tax supported we pay a fee once a year at tax season instead of monthly fees and everyone gets access in the united states of america and we can experience something fluid in our economy to the extent that similar to a start from nothing business you work with what you have access to for nothing including skills and tools you have acquired and ISP's and the PUBLIC want a funded free internet ( note funded free internet is new language ) and we want our business platform and then in the next session of congress we can begin discussing PUBLIC UTILITIES WITHIN THE PUBLIC UTILITY such as facebook and twitter"
While I actually like the idea of being allowed to choose whether to donate a few cycles or to watch ads - I would always choose to donate cycles (no privacy problem, no malware problem, no security problem, no tracking problem...).
HOWEVER, this will end poorly
This is because websites tend to be greedy. They won't go "either ads or cryptomining". They will go ads AND cryptomining. Just like cable TV.
The problem with ubiquitous surveillance of the masses is not generally to get that one specific person, its to get the masses to self-regulate and self-report.
As long as for every 1 of you, there are 100s of 're-educated' upstanding citizens that will do the spying and reporting FOR you, you have no chance.
This is the real message and threat behind 1984. If you think its about how the government uses its power to specifically target people, you've missed the point. Its about a systematic narrowing of what people can see, how they are raised, and how they are taught to basically program them to truly believe what the authorities want them to believe and behave like the authorities want to behave.
Basically, the 'boot stamping on a human face forever' is not the surveillance - its the concept that if you can get into this kind of reprogrammed (mentally) society where the number of outliers is small enough to manage by a small security force - mainly because the vast majority of folks really believe in it and are willing to report their neighbors out of fear or true belief - you have reached basically a valley that can be impossible for society to escape out of. It can literally remain in that state forever, as no single individual can ever apply enough pressure or organize with enough others to make any real change.
The world of Orwell's 1984 is not a world where revolution gently simmers just underneath the surface, held in check only by a tenuous government hold on surveillance. Its a world that has already failed and will fail forever and ever, where the populate itself has already settled into that pattern where outliers get picked out and chewed up by the system due to being vastly outnumbered by the believers, where all is already lost, and would continue to be lost, even without the surveillance equipment. Its really the re-education and re-shaping of society, taking information away, censoring, changing school curriculums, changing what people feel and what they believe, that is what makes it permanent - and it can happen in as little as one or two generations.
While I believe that companies might need to pay a bit more on their profits, companies don't really operate like individuals. Essentially applying an "income tax" to companies is a terrible idea.
Companies which actually produce things (be it information, services or goods) operate by taking their income, and spending it on the raw materials - paying employees, purchasing ingredients, paying for operating costs, electricity, shipping, building rent, other contracts - and then outputting goods (information or services too) which they then sell in order to try to make more than it cost them to actually produce them so that they can continue to operate
Taxing the profits means that the company makes less and less for itself (and thus its growth could be curbed), so technically even if you tax 100% of the profit, the company could still stay in business (but not grow). But if you tax the revenue or income you are in danger of literally eating into its ability to even stay the same size. And taxes always tend to increase. So this is a slippery slope where it eventually becomes not just unprofitable to run a company but its a losing proposition because the tax can cut into the operating costs.
Hah, yeah, I remember whenever my internet was slow just hitting speedtest and having a couple minutes of good internet.
This would work in a world where the laws were being made to actually protect folks instead of better the interest of those paying for the laws.
But we don't live there.
Finally won't have to drag the "free copy" that gets pooped onto my doorstep directly into the recycle bin anymore.
I'm okay with it. I'll accept the risk.
If you had physical access you could just plant an actual covert audio listening device in the house instead.
Some of the worst possible performance I have ever seen in my life has been from multiple antivirus softwares fighting with each other for access to a file. For example, you browse to a folder that contains a zip file... Windows Defender starting to scan the file (it gets first dibs because hey, written by operating system manufacture, what do you think?), other antivirus hooks CreateFileW and starts to scan it too. Now you have two applications seeking back and forth over the ZIP FILE trying to unzip it so they can peer inside and "make it safe". It extended what should have been small browsing operations from just a few seconds to many, many minutes.
If you're evaluating antivirus software, a good measure is how much raw data reads they do when you're just browsing your file system and not opening any actual files. Some of them halt processes and scan the entire file when the file is even just queried from the file table (not even when actually opened), and you end up with file iteration taking as long as it takes to read the entire file contents.
There is no place in this world for antivirus.
If they're so dumb that they can't stop from clicking on executables, install windows S on their computer and let them suffer it. Its still more effective than antivirus is.