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Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show as Feud With Amazon Grows (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Three months ago, YouTube pulled its programming from Amazon's Echo Show device -- the first skirmish in what is apparently an ongoing war. Shortly after, Amazon stopped selling the Nest E Thermostat, Nest's Camera IQ, and the Nest Secure alarm system. Two weeks ago, Amazon got YouTube back on the Echo Show by simply directing users to the web version, a workaround that left a lot to be desired. But even that version won't be available after today. In a statement, Google said it has been trying to reach an agreement with Amazon to provide customers with access to each other's products and services. But, Google said, Amazon doesn't carry Google products like Chromecast and Google Home, doesn't make Prime Video available for Google Cast users, and last month stopped selling some of Nest's latest products. "Given this lack of reciprocity, we are no longer supporting YouTube on Echo Show and FireTV. We hope we can reach an agreement to resolve these issues soon."
the only people really hurt are the consumers caught in the middle.
.. between not supporting and actively blocking. If Google intentionally changed their code specifically to block Amazon's hardware, that is not okay.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
I watch a lot of long-docos on YouTube on an old AppleTV.
Please don't piss off GOOG, APPL.
OK, Trump, here's your chance to smash two enemies with one law.
Anti-trust enforcement on Amazon, and Google, for F-ing over each other! The best kind of victory!
Anti-consumer, anti-choice cr@p like this is why repurposing an old PC (or just using an Intel NUC) as an HTPC is better than any proprietary junk from Apple, Microsoft, Google, or Amazon. They're all interested in controlling their users instead of providing good, flexible software -- ta hell with all four of 'em.
deception is obsolete... good sports with good spirits prevail.... cease fire stand down... our moms & babys need us to be sound...
-- Jesse Jackson
They are out of control, it took them many years to bring Prime Video to android phones. They use everyone else's technology but refuses to share theirs. Amazon is not playing nice with others and it is hurting consumers.
I have heard that Amazon has a reputation for being bad to its business partners. (Partnering with them to get as much data as possible and then metaphorically stabbing them in the back.) This appears to confirm that story.
To be fair, it is also similar to how supermarkets operate when they spin up the in-house brand of any product.
Not sure what Google did, but over a year ago I tried streaming Prime through the browser and casting that to my Chromecast. It didn't work too well back then.
However, I tried it again within the past few months and it works fantastic now.
There's a similar problem between amazon and apple, where amazon didn't sell the apple tv, and the apple tv doesn't have an amazon prime video app. I've heard many times that this war was over.... we'll see.
I wonder if these two supporters of Net Neutrality would be able to do this under their proposed rules?
If so, what's the point of all those rules?
Oh yeah, to cement the position of entrenched players such as Google and Amazon.
Chances are many users are perfectly able to find where to buy Chromecast and Google Home devices without help from Amazon using... Google!
I just bought a Fire TV Stick over a Chromecast because the former is a full (if skinned) android OS device connectable via HDMI. The latter only allows me to wirelessly stream from my Android device to the TV... not my preferred solution. The former allows me to sideload Kodi and pull content from my DVR. The latter... still gotta have a separate Android device to do that stuff with, and I'm not sure Kodi plays with Chromecast.
Stupid. Amazon, Google, get off your butts and interoperate before someone else comes along and steals your bread and butter.
why should google be allowed to discriminate against certain user agents?
Amazon took Twitch off of Roku, Everyone wants their own exclusive outlet.
Ajit must be thrilled.
The youtube app sucks anyways as you can't block ads.
This is called bait and switch. Google committed to this device and now the people who bought it are screwed.
This sounds like a good thing all around for consumers. I hope this war escalates perpetually so people will finally realize that all of those devices are pieces of trash.
Trump? Anti-trust? LOL
Who needs it! (sarcasm)
Stop the pissing match already and just make things that work.
If net neutrality is removed there is hope that the hardware vendors could oppose the gatekeepers for a time as it was fought in the days of old.
the fact that these products are part of a different line of business but the anti-competition behavior is being waged on an entirely different business (amazon store, kindle app store, etc) goes far and long in support of the criteria of a Trust. This pissing match proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that they are using their enormous power base to harm consumers for their own financial gains.
Amazon: "Mine! Mine! Mine!"
Google: "Mine! Mine! Mine!"
We are going to need a connectivity flow chart.
A chance to screw over two blue states... he will compromise.
First it starts in the physical world .. next it will be the internet world..
{.}-{.}
The only things Trump may have a monopoly on are
1) egotism
2) narcissism
3) traitorism
4) being orange
5) the name trump
Almost everything else he's done in life is a complete failure.... See his university, his vodka, 80% of his real estate dealings, his bankruptcy and his presidency
Anything that helps making their privacy destroying big brother products, which can't work without network connections on purpose when there is no real tech reason for it (like all the broken by design NEST products for example), sell less, less desirable etc. then this is a big win for all the consumers world-wide.
Hooray for Google and Amazon killing each their own shitty products!
So now we have one monopoly that thinks they can do whatever they want, with another that thinks the same.
I wonder what the end result will be (apart from consumers getting screwed in the process). IMO Amazon needs Youtube far more than Google needs Amazon, so maybe Amazon will start their own youtube-like service?
The good of the consumers are both company's #1 priority for sure!
We can always sideload, but for regular consumers, this means less Amazon Fire TV sales, less reasons to get an Echo Show, and more complaints thrown at both companies.
I... just don't care. Saw this shit coming ages ago with Google's problems with making Windows Mobile apps. I also noticed inherent limitations of casting dongles and just decided to pull a cable from the desktop directly to the living room TV.
As for Echo Show... heh, that's something I'll never buy, so.
You're right. "the first skirmish in what is apparently an ongoing war." wasn't Google pulling YouTube of the Echo Show show as claimed in the article. The "first skirmish" goes to Amazon for pulling the Chromecast out of its store!
https://www.wired.com/2015/10/...
'Scuse me while I reach into my big bag of Give a Fuck and don an appropriate degree of outrage on Google's behalf...
Whoops! Bag's empty. I don't give a fuck about Google's problems with Amazon. Google screwed over Roku for years like this (heaven forbid some device not support Youtube ads flawlessly.)
Maybe Eric should jump in one of his planes and go see President Obam^HTrum^H... oh wait. Never mind.
These gardens wont segregate themselves.
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
Youtube is a website. The Fire TV is a computer. It should be able to access Youtube.
This is beyond stupid. Both companies are being assholes.
I'm pretty sure I've seen a nest show up in my searches with in the last week so I just did a search, not only does it show up it is an "Amazon Choice"...so how much of the rest of the summary is bullshit?
Amazon and Google are just trying to lock users into respective ecosystems. Gee, Apple has been doing this forever and Microsoft appears to be going that direction too. Myself, I picked one a while ago and just stick with that. Yes, it would be nice to have more choice, but that doesnâ(TM)t seem to be happening and these companies would rather keep their systems isolated to their own stuff then allow competition in.
Yes, the end user suffers the most with these squabbles but its clearly a money game.
Amazon's blocking Google's adverts. If you successful do that on your HTPC google will take what steps they can to prevent you from getting the content they host. They're less successful with HTPCs because it's harder to do but they'll still try (actually, they'll try to get around your ad blocker, which they probably can't do with Amazon's box).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
This is why it's nice to have a Roku box. They're like the Switzerland of set top boxes. While google is blocking Youtube from Fire TV, and Amazon is just getting over their block of Prime Video from Apple TV, Roku just about works with everything.
A service I can see freely on any PC and nearly any device is now being blocked on certain devices from a certain company. So much for an open internet, we're moving to vertical stack monopolies and soon into internet isolationism.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Is this stage before or after we see glasnost, Perestroika, "Trust but Verify"?
and yet the actions of Google and Amazon are just as bad.
I'll just say my two cents here. I'm not sure how many people are like me here but YouTube doesn't really appeal to me much anymore. I just don't see it having "good" content. Maybe CGP Grey and Kurzgesagt but that's about the end of it. Even then those two aren't regular publishers and leaving them alone for a year and then coming back, I can watch everything they've done in the in between in one sitting.
There's not really much a point to trying to "discover" anything on YouTube, because the vast majority is just trash or is content that has its own platform that's more tailored to its content, like Twitch. I think the strength of YouTube is its inertia and getting rid of it on a device is a sure fire way to wake folks up and have them realize how little value there is left in YouTube. Again, maybe that's just me.
What we need is for new TVs to have twenty HDMI connectors on the set. That way you can put in a "stick" for every single content supplier since they are never going to get along.
Right now, since Roku is not a content provider, merely content delivery, they manage to deliver pretty much any content you have a paid subscription for. For example, both YouTube and Amazon Prime. And HBO, Starz, Hulu, etc.
Changing "channels" will be using the input selector to select which "stick" or "box" to use. Disgusting.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Though not a net neutrality battle, this is similar and, sadly, allowed by regulations to proceed.
Amazon is the overwhelming leader in the online retail market. They have chosen to become a provider of devices that they sell, thus competing with the retailers who use them to reach a large portion of the market. Google is the closest competitor to some of their devices, so they took advantage of their position and locked them out.
How is this different in nature from what can happen when ISPs that are regional monopolies merge with content providers and there is no net neutrality regulation in place? Do we really think the ISPs' content providers won't be given a leg up on other content providers? How long before the first competitor is blocked by an ISP?
At least when Amazon flexes muscle, we can go to Walmart or some other online retailer. In my area, we only have alleged competition to Spectrum.
The world's richest oligarch battles the internet's Ministry of Truth and biggest snoop. Maybe they'll self-annihilate and we'll all be better off.
The actual feud between Google and Amazon is Youtube vs Twitch (so Alphabet vs Amazon actually) and they're competiting to see who can mismanage their platform the worst, enforce the rules unevenly and make them up as they go, and generally piss off their users the most. Up until recently Twitch was winning by banning males more than females for lewd acts on live stream but Youtube pulled WAY ahead by ignoring reports going back to 2006 about underage fetish erotica disguised as kids content. Also the CEO Susan is the most under-qualified person to run a giant company in the entirety of the US, including non-english speakers, the mentally unstable, and non-human animals.
Begun, the Tube Wars have.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The problem is vertical integration - companies trying to use dominance at one level to leverage dominance in another level where they are weak.
In the 1980s Microsoft had no presence in the productivity suite market (word processor, spreadsheet, etc). They used their dominance of the PC operating system market to steer the dominant companies (WordPerfect, Lotus) towards creating OS/2 versions in preparation for phasing out DOS, all the while assuring them that OS/2 was the future. Meanwhile they secretly worked their own productivity apps (Word and Excel) to run on what became Windows. Then suddenly they announced they were dissolving their relationship with IBM, pulling support from OS/2, and Windows was the future. WordPerfect and Lotus were caught flat-footed, but Microsoft said not to worry - you can buy our productivity apps which will work with Windows.
Later they repeated this with Stacker (automatic file compression) and Internet Explorer, packaging those with Windows to drive the competition (Stacker and Netscape) out of business so they could dominate those markets.
Today we're suffering from it with the data transport companies (Internet and cellular data service providers) (ab)using their position to influence other markets that they don't dominate (having to buy cell phone from branded or authorized stores to be sure it'll work with your carrier, holding up Android updates so they can "customize" it to their satisfaction, cable set-top boxes before the government mandated Cable Cards, Internet fast lanes, etc).
In all cases, it's just companies trying to leverage their dominant position in one market to a dominant in another. This is more of the same. Amazon using its dominant position as online retailer to influence how you use the products you buy (whether they be FireTV or Chromecast). Google using its dominant position in user-created video content (YouTube) to as leverage to try to get Amazon to behave.
The whole thing would be a lot simpler if companies were prohibited from certain types of vertical integration. If Microsoft had been split into an OS company and software company, both Windows and Office would've had to compete on their own merits. (In fact they refused to release Office apps for Android/iOS until it was clear that Windows Phone was a failure. Likewise if ISPs weren't allowed to sell or provide media services (and likewise Cable companies weren't allowed to provide Internet service - only sell access to other companies which provided Internet service), then none of this net neutrality/Internet fast lanes BS would be happening. And if Amazon were only allowed to act as an online store, their primary goal would be to support all hardware platforms without bias or prejudice and this problem would never be happening.
I tried Plex, didn't like it and stayed with serviio.
It has some annoyances, but has been working for me for years. We mainly stream videos from my server to computers and TVs via Rokus. Works like a charm.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
All I want is a box to plug into my TV to watch my media. I don't want to have to worry about who I bought the media from.
Currently, I have an Apple TV. I'm fine if my Music stays apple-only, but since Apple Music is available for Android, I feel like that's portable enough. Which leaves me with video.
I do Netflix, Amazon, and Apple. I used to do Youtube on the Apple TV, and still can (last I checked) by running the app on my phone and streaming THAT to my Apple TV.
There is no combination of devices that allows me to play all 3 vendors' material. Roku might be the closest.
I think these giants are all dropping the ball here, and perhaps they oughtn't not be the ones selling the media. Why can't the studios sell media licenses directly, so that if I buy a WB or Miramax movie, I can play it on ANY device with a WB or Miramax player, which they could then develop for Roku, Apple, Amazon, Google, etc. I guess that's the Model HBO is taking actually. I'm just sick of these disputes, where Company X wants to make money from selling someone elses content, and therefor moves to cripple its competitor by NOT letting it play the same content (even though that content is available for it on another App), etc.
It's just getting beyond frustrating, for us consumers.
I'd say follow Apple's lead and make the money off your hardware, but given that Apple won't let Amazon onto the Apple TV unless they get their slice of in-app purchases, that's not the way either.
These movie studios need to realize that consumers would be happy as hell to buy from them without the middle man, and wind up with media purchases that are portable across platforms. That seems like the only real solution.
The irony of Google telling us we need net neutrality. Isn't this almost exactly what Google is saying internet providers should be forbidden from doing?
I feel deceived by Amazon KINDLE FIRE I needed a cheap table and bought the Amazon Kindle fire for 79 dollars. I regret the decision. I'll give it away and buy a real Android tablet. All the important apps that I need either don't exist on the Amazon store or they are outdated in comparison to their counterpart on Android. When I bought the tablet they mentioned that I could remove advertising from it for a fee, but they make it nearly impossible to do so. AMAZON PRIME I bought Amazon Prime, but I can barely watch any their content outside of the US, even Amazon's "original" content. THE STORE I recently noticed that buying directly from the suppliers listed on Amazon is cheaper even if I have to pay shipping fee. I recently saved around 50 dollars on a bunk bed by ordering directly from the supplier instead of Amazon.
Oh the tears
The problem is end users do not control the devices they own! If a free OS and app ran on fire, it would be forked so fast it would make your head spin.
Proprietary software allows end users to be manipulated like pawns!
Do not buy devices that can not run free software.
Google better watch how how it wields the youtube stick because it could get them in deep trouble with abuse of monopoly power. Youtube is a monopoly.
Honestly, we need a real YouTube competitor and an Amazon competitor. With these giants blocking out each other, it is perfect for other parties to grow as competition. The real problem will be when Google blocks smaller third party sites from YouTube because it has a deal with Amazon.
Isn't it awesome when companies use their dominance in one market to manipulate another market? It'd be nice if Internet users could boycott them both for a single day, but that'll never happen.
Amazon at one point entered the search engine business.....google started to cancel some of the ads that Amazon used to buy for paid search.
Than Amazon wanted to create its own version of android and app store, but google told app developers they would be penalized if they uploaded their apps to both the Amazon appstore and Google's playstore. Now, every amazon tablet has to be hacked to run google play in order to have decent apps. Amazon's still pissed about that as it ruined a lot of their hardware plans - they even had to lay people off in the tablet biz.
Google wasn't happy when Amazon launched their own phone. Google somewhat retaliated by going after Amazon's online shopping business by creating their own 3rd party shopping cart and checkout technology.
And, of course, Amazon and Google are competing in video streaming and other markets.
Personally, I realize they are both monopolies that like to steal my data, but at least Amazon actually treats me like a customer and offer me good value. And, provides excellent customer service. Google seems to think I'm such a putz that I'll give them every possible piece of data about my life for occasional free stuff. Google has zero customer service..everything is automated and you either take their stuff in the same fashion as everyone else or go away.
I'm slowly pulling myself out of every google service I can. Youtube is the most difficult to replace.
These are champions of net neutrality. How about we send the FTC after them to force them to honor "app neutrality"?
I have a lot less choice in terms of streaming sticks than I have in terms of ISPs.
Google wants to use its monopoly power.
Remember their moto us now "Do Evil"
I don't "pirate content" (which I presume has something to do with murder, forcible asset reallocation and eyepatches on the high seas.)
I also don't do any illegal or unethical copying of media, and I never have. I see no reason to do so; it just attracts unfavorable attention from morally challenged corporations and law enforcement without providing any compensatory benefits.
But I've been using Kodi/XBMC for well over a decade, and it's extremely useful to me in my one hundred percent legal activities. The only thing it doesn't do is play bluerays, so I have a cheap, linux-based, standalone Insignia-branded player for that.
Basically, this spat is much older than what most people realize. Google refuses to make an app for FireTV. Amazon is basically using the public site youtube.com/tv and the "app" is just a bookmark that takes you there.
Amazon stop selling google devices because google would not allow their apps on their devices. Which, while I believe it sucks and hurts consumers, it was the only way to try and pressure Google in supporting their devices (it hasn't work). I wonder if the new round of ban devices had to do with wanting to add pressure or just them being dicks (i'm leaning towards them being dicks)
What google is doing here is a bit scary. What they are basically saying is that because I don't like the company you buy things from, I'm going to block you from using publicly (free) available sites / services.
They are basically doing the same as if Disney got mad at Apple, and decided to not allow anyone with a macbook to access espn.com.
Anyways, my guess is someone will come up with an app that spoofs the browser as chrome or something else, and will hopefully bypass all this. The thing that sucks, is that it will most likely have to be side loaded which will hurt those that have no clue how to do it. Would love Amazon to do it themselves just to see how far this could go... hehe
Maybe that's fair, but it starts a bad precedent for everyone to sink to Amazon's level. In the end I think its the end-users who get screwed.
I'm not really into determining who started the fight, I think we should hold any company that participates in these tactics accountable, no matter what their reasoning.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire