This just goes to show you - if the public school system in America really wanted to teach kids to learn, they'd place emphasis on having them learnto think critically for themselves, (a very important concept which seems to be sorely lacking today) rather than trying to churn out students who learn by rote and repetition (I.E. they are churning out cogs for our society/the corporate machine). Learning to think critically for yourself is exactly what many, many schools in America strive to prevent and punish at every opportunity.
It seems like these kids are being punished severely for "thinking outside of the box" and for exploring other ways to use their machines - For not being good little citizens and shutting their minds off (maybe they looked at some porn too, but c'mon, what would you expect from teenagers being sent totally mixed messages) Now, I have no idea what these 13 kids actually did that was so bad - but regardless I have a huge problem with technologically illiterate school administrators, small town media, and cops/prosecutors charging high school students with a felony when they (in most cases) truly don't even understand the technology and the terminology around it. I think they are being punished mainly for not conforming and for making the school look stupid. A couple of other posts on here mentioned phrases like "our increasingly vengeance based culture" - and another mentioned that "in American schools the attitude is one of suspicion and enforcement rather than learning" (a problem all across our post 9/11 culture) I think both of these posts are dead on accurate characterizations.
If they were changing grades or something then that's a different issue, but that should be handled within the school and even that doesn't warrant charges (especially not felony). If the school was really on the ball and interested in enriching their students maybe they'd give these kids who they've seen are testing their boundaries something fun and truly challenging to do on their computers.
(I've made a lot of generalizations in this post, obviously not everything is black and white - I am mainly referring to High Schools and though I generalize, obviously there are the rare exceptions like special teachers or progressive schools, or schools who have IT staff who know how to implement proper security - I guess my point is that this is symptomatic of a lot of our schools these days)
I totally agree.
If most people in the US did know how corrupt their govt has become there would be one hell of a tea party.
The fact is that a lot of people, even when presented with indisputable evidence, do not want to believe it. They're in denial.
People read one sentence and are ready to pin the whole thing on Rackspace (who I would never trust) and indymedia (who has been targeted in many ways)
Don't assume you know everything about what happened.
The FBI colludes in many cases with corporations, sometimes the corporations do it voluntarily, other times they do it after some sort of pressure is implied or brought to bear.
Assuming that because an article says that the FBI didn't specifically ask for the drives in the subpoena proper doesn't mean there isn't more to the story - and there are cases where certain segments/agents of the FBI have acted as "jackbooted thugs." BY the way some segments of the feds believe it appears as though they are a lot more interested in stopping dissent among US citizens than in working on terrorism.
They certainly devote enough resources to spying on people and groups for political purposes.
Referring to people who are concerned about the serious erosion of fundamental liberties in the US as "the foil-hat crowd" is ridiculous - I see people who used to say things like that all of the time starting to get worried latrely with the things that are going on - but then most of the public gets all of the information from the corporate owned government controlled mainstream media - Which is why Indymedia is targeted in these ways.
I don't think Indymedia is the reason this happened, it seems more like rackspace (that is, if you only take the article at face value and don't have it in any historical context)
Obviously rackspace sucks though.
I think that it's not necessarily prudent to assume that you know the entire situation just from reading the article.
My personal opinion is that we need more people who are willing to violate these non-disclosure and similar policies (be they corporate or govt) when they see or know something that is going to put our privacy, freedom, rights, or security at risk.
Of course, if you care about your job you may want to give the company a chance to address it, but maybe he knew they wouldn't.
Trusting big business to do the right thing is about as safe of a bet as a corner three-card-monte game.
On top of that, I would think that they are only stengthening their employee's cause in the eyes of the public - because now people can see what kind of heavy-handed tactics they are using to stifle any attempt their employees may be making to redress grievances or improve pay/working conditions.
Get used to it North America. Fascism is on the march! (as the shrub says, although he tends to call it "freedom.")
Before long I think that they will stop even trying to dress it up as democracy.
Democracy in Amerca is dead unfortunately. It makes me really sad and very angry.
It's strange when I talk to people about the sad state of affairs in our country and the level of criminality, corruption, and outright treason in the highest levels of government in the US today (especially in the White House). If the people I am speaking to have one their homework and have good reszearch and critical thinking skills then they understand that we are in a very bad situation right now.
If they only get their information from the mainstream media and don't have a good grasp of history (and I mean history as in "the reality of what has really happened" vs sanitized history from an American perpective only) then they generally get hostile or act annoyed and like I am paranoid, or am simply Anti-Bush.
The most ignorant/least educated/least informed among them think it has to do with a dislike for Bush or Kerry losing the election. Kerry in my opinion was only marginally better.
In any event, the point of my post is to tell people who think this is all about security and that the patriot act is a good thing or is doing ANYTHING AT ALL to keep us safe to get a clue and to really do research on these things and what they're being used for and look historically how how terrorism is used by governments as a method of control in a "Problem Response scenario.
People need to realize that the facts are all out there, and that they are facts, not speculation, facts from reputable credible sources that prove that elements of the US intelligence community were well aware of 9/11 before it happened and short sold stocks on the chicago exchange among many, many other things. The official story has fallen apart, and it's only by the de facto control of the manstream media that more people aren't aware of just how many holes have been ripped into the fabric of that scary fairy-tale.
The goal is total control. You, me...all of us will be controlled and under suspicion constantly. There are detention camps built.
These are not paranoid ramblings, these are facts. You are mostly educated people here on Slashdot, check it out for yourself.
Fascism is here and it's wrapped in the American flag. SO either watch your TV, buy into the lies and don't ask questions and be sheeple - or get your act together and ask questions and insist upon the truth and upon the constitution being respected and followed tot he letter of the law. Insist that a president who lies in order to send our young people to war is at least impeached if not prosecuted for some of the other things his family-criminal-private intelligence-network has done.
Please - think, read...Do something - otherwise we'll live in a full fledged fascist police state where corporations run everything.
Get a Clue?
It sounds to me like you should get a clue
You're generalizing everybody who posts here as being some cliched stereotype of a nerd.
I use MS products (even though that's unpopular and some of their decisions lately are lame -like this DRM bullshit). I don't like star trek or wear a pocket protector - I could probably outthink, out program yolu as well as kick your ass, but I'm just not that type of girl (or guy).
That's what message boards are for, is to post opinions. When the only opinion you have to offer is that everyone else on the board is a stupid dork, well - that says more about you than the board.
(as cartman says " You just got f'd in the A")
The fact is piracy has always been and will always be. Even back in the early 80s when I had an Apple II (not a plus, not an "e") somehow my very straight laced dad always ended up with games for me on floppy diskettes which originated at the computer store which mentioned "Pacific Coast Pirates" and other such groups. ---
--I think it's a perfect analogy:
Just like the politicians who manipulate the public with fear and convince them to give up their liberties for false security, promising to "win the war on terrorism" when it cannot be "won" anymore than the "war on drugs" can be won with prohibitionist policies. If someone wants to hurt people bad enough (especially if they are willing to die)-
they will find a way, and imprisoning the public is no way to provide safety. It only gives
the govt more control. ----
- crippling growth and technology in order to stop some people (mostly people who wouldn't or couldn't afford to purchase anyway) from getting free software is utterly ridiculous. There is so perfect security, and one of two things will happen - either I will suck so bad nobody will want it. OR people will figure out a way around it. Why waste people's time and good will treating them like they cannot be trusted and as such deserve to have partially crippled products.
Because the Internet Archive is free;
because corporations and governments (in the US and elsewhere I am sure) have in the past changed information on websites in an effort to hide or obfuscate things and don't like the fact that any person with an internet connection can reference older pages and prove in court that information did once exist in a state that a corp or govt may wish to deny;
because it is a true history of what has happened (in the sense that it provides the original information without trying to wrap it in bias or viewpoints) rather than someone else's opinion or version of what once existed;
again, because it is free and provides free access to music and other media (some of which is very political in nature), websites, and other information without having to go through a traditional "gatekeeper" of any sort;
because of all of these things I expect that the Internet Archive will be attacked more and more as time goes on in various ways by corporate and state powers. (Especially as the US decends further into fascism in the 21st century).
I hope I am wrong, but I don't think that I am.
I'm surprised that I haven't heard certain politicians claiming that the Interet Archive is a form of online Socialism. (you remember the commies right? ya know, our old Bogeyman from before terrorism stole his thunder)?
I guess you're a libertarian the same way GWB is a conservative.
(Basically you're saying you're libertarian, but you support the Govt criminalizing a socio-medical/Personal issue. (Which is not libertarianism - at least not as it is classically defined and understood).
Slashdot Mirror
This just goes to show you - if the public school system in America really wanted to teach kids to learn, they'd place emphasis on having them learn to think critically for themselves, (a very important concept which seems to be sorely lacking today) rather than trying to churn out students who learn by rote and repetition (I.E. they are churning out cogs for our society/the corporate machine). Learning to think critically for yourself is exactly what many, many schools in America strive to prevent and punish at every opportunity. It seems like these kids are being punished severely for "thinking outside of the box" and for exploring other ways to use their machines - For not being good little citizens and shutting their minds off (maybe they looked at some porn too, but c'mon, what would you expect from teenagers being sent totally mixed messages) Now, I have no idea what these 13 kids actually did that was so bad - but regardless I have a huge problem with technologically illiterate school administrators, small town media, and cops/prosecutors charging high school students with a felony when they (in most cases) truly don't even understand the technology and the terminology around it. I think they are being punished mainly for not conforming and for making the school look stupid. A couple of other posts on here mentioned phrases like "our increasingly vengeance based culture" - and another mentioned that "in American schools the attitude is one of suspicion and enforcement rather than learning" (a problem all across our post 9/11 culture) I think both of these posts are dead on accurate characterizations. If they were changing grades or something then that's a different issue, but that should be handled within the school and even that doesn't warrant charges (especially not felony). If the school was really on the ball and interested in enriching their students maybe they'd give these kids who they've seen are testing their boundaries something fun and truly challenging to do on their computers. (I've made a lot of generalizations in this post, obviously not everything is black and white - I am mainly referring to High Schools and though I generalize, obviously there are the rare exceptions like special teachers or progressive schools, or schools who have IT staff who know how to implement proper security - I guess my point is that this is symptomatic of a lot of our schools these days)
I totally agree. If most people in the US did know how corrupt their govt has become there would be one hell of a tea party. The fact is that a lot of people, even when presented with indisputable evidence, do not want to believe it. They're in denial. People read one sentence and are ready to pin the whole thing on Rackspace (who I would never trust) and indymedia (who has been targeted in many ways)
Don't assume you know everything about what happened. The FBI colludes in many cases with corporations, sometimes the corporations do it voluntarily, other times they do it after some sort of pressure is implied or brought to bear. Assuming that because an article says that the FBI didn't specifically ask for the drives in the subpoena proper doesn't mean there isn't more to the story - and there are cases where certain segments/agents of the FBI have acted as "jackbooted thugs." BY the way some segments of the feds believe it appears as though they are a lot more interested in stopping dissent among US citizens than in working on terrorism. They certainly devote enough resources to spying on people and groups for political purposes. Referring to people who are concerned about the serious erosion of fundamental liberties in the US as "the foil-hat crowd" is ridiculous - I see people who used to say things like that all of the time starting to get worried latrely with the things that are going on - but then most of the public gets all of the information from the corporate owned government controlled mainstream media - Which is why Indymedia is targeted in these ways. I don't think Indymedia is the reason this happened, it seems more like rackspace (that is, if you only take the article at face value and don't have it in any historical context) Obviously rackspace sucks though.
I think that it's not necessarily prudent to assume that you know the entire situation just from reading the article. My personal opinion is that we need more people who are willing to violate these non-disclosure and similar policies (be they corporate or govt) when they see or know something that is going to put our privacy, freedom, rights, or security at risk. Of course, if you care about your job you may want to give the company a chance to address it, but maybe he knew they wouldn't. Trusting big business to do the right thing is about as safe of a bet as a corner three-card-monte game.
On top of that, I would think that they are only stengthening their employee's cause in the eyes of the public - because now people can see what kind of heavy-handed tactics they are using to stifle any attempt their employees may be making to redress grievances or improve pay/working conditions. Get used to it North America. Fascism is on the march! (as the shrub says, although he tends to call it "freedom.")
Before long I think that they will stop even trying to dress it up as democracy. Democracy in Amerca is dead unfortunately. It makes me really sad and very angry. It's strange when I talk to people about the sad state of affairs in our country and the level of criminality, corruption, and outright treason in the highest levels of government in the US today (especially in the White House). If the people I am speaking to have one their homework and have good reszearch and critical thinking skills then they understand that we are in a very bad situation right now. If they only get their information from the mainstream media and don't have a good grasp of history (and I mean history as in "the reality of what has really happened" vs sanitized history from an American perpective only) then they generally get hostile or act annoyed and like I am paranoid, or am simply Anti-Bush. The most ignorant/least educated/least informed among them think it has to do with a dislike for Bush or Kerry losing the election. Kerry in my opinion was only marginally better. In any event, the point of my post is to tell people who think this is all about security and that the patriot act is a good thing or is doing ANYTHING AT ALL to keep us safe to get a clue and to really do research on these things and what they're being used for and look historically how how terrorism is used by governments as a method of control in a "Problem Response scenario. People need to realize that the facts are all out there, and that they are facts, not speculation, facts from reputable credible sources that prove that elements of the US intelligence community were well aware of 9/11 before it happened and short sold stocks on the chicago exchange among many, many other things. The official story has fallen apart, and it's only by the de facto control of the manstream media that more people aren't aware of just how many holes have been ripped into the fabric of that scary fairy-tale. The goal is total control. You, me...all of us will be controlled and under suspicion constantly. There are detention camps built. These are not paranoid ramblings, these are facts. You are mostly educated people here on Slashdot, check it out for yourself. Fascism is here and it's wrapped in the American flag. SO either watch your TV, buy into the lies and don't ask questions and be sheeple - or get your act together and ask questions and insist upon the truth and upon the constitution being respected and followed tot he letter of the law. Insist that a president who lies in order to send our young people to war is at least impeached if not prosecuted for some of the other things his family-criminal-private intelligence-network has done. Please - think, read...Do something - otherwise we'll live in a full fledged fascist police state where corporations run everything.
Get a Clue? It sounds to me like you should get a clue You're generalizing everybody who posts here as being some cliched stereotype of a nerd. I use MS products (even though that's unpopular and some of their decisions lately are lame -like this DRM bullshit). I don't like star trek or wear a pocket protector - I could probably outthink, out program yolu as well as kick your ass, but I'm just not that type of girl (or guy). That's what message boards are for, is to post opinions. When the only opinion you have to offer is that everyone else on the board is a stupid dork, well - that says more about you than the board. (as cartman says " You just got f'd in the A")
The fact is piracy has always been and will always be. Even back in the early 80s when I had an Apple II (not a plus, not an "e") somehow my very straight laced dad always ended up with games for me on floppy diskettes which originated at the computer store which mentioned "Pacific Coast Pirates" and other such groups. --- --I think it's a perfect analogy: Just like the politicians who manipulate the public with fear and convince them to give up their liberties for false security, promising to "win the war on terrorism" when it cannot be "won" anymore than the "war on drugs" can be won with prohibitionist policies. If someone wants to hurt people bad enough (especially if they are willing to die)- they will find a way, and imprisoning the public is no way to provide safety. It only gives the govt more control. ---- - crippling growth and technology in order to stop some people (mostly people who wouldn't or couldn't afford to purchase anyway) from getting free software is utterly ridiculous. There is so perfect security, and one of two things will happen - either I will suck so bad nobody will want it. OR people will figure out a way around it. Why waste people's time and good will treating them like they cannot be trusted and as such deserve to have partially crippled products.
subject says it all.
Because the Internet Archive is free; because corporations and governments (in the US and elsewhere I am sure) have in the past changed information on websites in an effort to hide or obfuscate things and don't like the fact that any person with an internet connection can reference older pages and prove in court that information did once exist in a state that a corp or govt may wish to deny; because it is a true history of what has happened (in the sense that it provides the original information without trying to wrap it in bias or viewpoints) rather than someone else's opinion or version of what once existed; again, because it is free and provides free access to music and other media (some of which is very political in nature), websites, and other information without having to go through a traditional "gatekeeper" of any sort; because of all of these things I expect that the Internet Archive will be attacked more and more as time goes on in various ways by corporate and state powers. (Especially as the US decends further into fascism in the 21st century). I hope I am wrong, but I don't think that I am. I'm surprised that I haven't heard certain politicians claiming that the Interet Archive is a form of online Socialism. (you remember the commies right? ya know, our old Bogeyman from before terrorism stole his thunder)?
I guess you're a libertarian the same way GWB is a conservative. (Basically you're saying you're libertarian, but you support the Govt criminalizing a socio-medical/Personal issue. (Which is not libertarianism - at least not as it is classically defined and understood).