You can do important stuff from the command line on Windows - IIS log queries with LogParser and batch image editing with ImageMagick are some of the reasons I've used this in just the past couple of days. But the average Windows user never needs to see or touch it. This is why Windows is a mainstream desktop OS and Linux is not.
Could you explain why MSDOS triumphed over Mac OS in the personal computer marketplace for 11 years before finally being replaced by Win95?
None of this is the case with PC command lines. The syntax, spelling, and formatting has to be exact or else it won't work. There is very little wiggle room. If the average person had to write a perfectly spelled, perfectly grammatical sentence using only specific hand-picked words in order to be understood, then mass literacy would be impossible.
If you misspell something, the computer will say 'huh?' and throw syntax error. You'll go back to your history, find your typo and be on your way. This is really not beyond most people.
Anyways, with tab completion, people should hardly ever be making errors unless they already know the commands by heart.
A PC is not a DVD player. A PC is a lever for the mind, thus I don't really consider anyone computer literate who can't write a short program. After all, while we don't expect the average person to write a novel or even a press release, we do include the ability to compose a few short paragraphs of readable text in the definition of English literacy.
This is so true. It was a dark day when the idea that a common user should be able to use a computer without even minimal programming ability became the norm. Instead of teaching the illiterate to read, we decided the books should talk.:(
Getting the illiterate moved to Android or iProducts will be a net win since they will then stop exerting undue market influence on dumbing down computers because, illiterate as they might be, as militantly proud of their illiteracy as all too many are, they had to use one until recently to have acces to the most basic word processing, email and web access.
PLEASE NO! I really like my cheapo personal super computers. I know exploitation is bad... but still.
Average Users (Joe Web Browser or Sally Word Processor) don't use or need a CLI, never have. That goes way way back to the DOS days by the way (obviously before Web Browsing), when a dual floppy was required to boot DOS and load Wordperfect. They didn't know DOS and didn't need to. But bet your ass some guy used a CLI to make the Average User function day to day.
No way dude. The common WP DOS user needed at least minimal DOS knowledge to admin their system. In the USA, dual floppy systems were more the exception that the rule. In order to use a DOS hard disk box with multiple applications installed, your going to at least need know basic things about paths. Once you're walking the dir structure with the command line, moving/ deleting files, formatting floppy disks, etc the more complex stuff can added be organically.
I suspect many a computer nerd was born from the need to run WP or some odd game on DOS.
I do, Windows Upgrade licenses are great. Unlike OEM licenses, you can move them to a new computer when your old one becomes obsolete. My WinXP Upgrade saw use on 3 consecutive computers.
I would never use Upgrade media for anything but a fresh install though.
Funny, Win7 and Win8 preview are slightly laggy on my desktop. WinXP SP3 feels a lot like XFCE in responsiveness (I do keep a pretty bare install though).
Please do not besmirch the Apple ][ by associating it with a Mac. The platform's values are totally at odds with those of the Mac's. Every user manual came with schematics and a firmware listing.
Steve Jobs cried when Woz refused to cut down the number of expansion slots from seven to two.;)
When the graphic interface was commercialized the hacker crowd said 'who needs a mouse and pretty graphic screen when a green command line works just fine'.
Most of those hackers were probably Apple II users. If you recall Apple's old iconic logo you would know the Apple II was all about color.
Do you think your experience with a 17 year old consumer "VR Helmet" is still relevant today? 6DOF FPS like Descent2 make many people pukey even with normal displays.
The PSP software market was destroyed? By what metric? Its library seems too good for that. I've only got 12 games at the moment but I could easily name another 20 that are of interest to me. I doubt I'm exceptional.
If need be, we will reboot the revolution by hand-soldering logic circuits out of regular transistors.
Good luck getting such circuits to communicate over any public network.
Does the internet count?;)
"Magic-1 is a completely homebuilt minicomputer. It doesn't use an off-the-shelf microprocessor, but instead has a custom CPU made out of 74 Series TTL chips. Altogether there are more than 200 chips in Magic-1 connected together with thousands of individually wrapped wires. And, it works. Not only the hardware, but a full software stack. There's a ANSI C cross-compiler for Magic-1 (retargeted LCC), a fully multi-user, multi-tasking port of the Minix 2 operating system. a TCP/IP stack and hundreds of programs."
MAGIC-1
http://www.homebrewcpu.com/
LOL. I understand the sentiment but that's kind of sweeping.
You do realize that a huge percentage of the 13 original colonies' immigrants were slaves, convict laborers, and indentured servants right? I'd wager a fair number of them would've accepted a ticket home if offered.
I personally don't have guts to call a native american an immigrant but I may just be a wuss. I suppose the way the US has pushed them around the continent, into increasingly smaller pockets of the country may make it technically acurate. Pop culture says they had no concept of property but at least in hindsight, I'm sure they'd have been all for border control had they the means to go about it. Pretty tragic really.
I love the national creation myth as much as the next person but are we really a nation of immigrants or a daughter of imperialism?
... I remember spending hours trying to work through it on a VAX 11/780. There were several ports done, and I played one a few years back, and it was still addictive. A great piece of gaming history, and something everyone should try - it's still fun, and shows that you don't always need enormous graphics and processors to make a great game.
Holy crap! If a VAX 11/780 isn't an enormous processor you must be into some really big iron. You know the type you can get lost in.;)
Slashdot Mirror
Imagine the world today had hp claimed ownership of Wozniac's first PC?
It would have been inconsequential as there was only one Cream Soda computer. ;)
You can do important stuff from the command line on Windows - IIS log queries with LogParser and batch image editing with ImageMagick are some of the reasons I've used this in just the past couple of days. But the average Windows user never needs to see or touch it. This is why Windows is a mainstream desktop OS and Linux is not.
Could you explain why MSDOS triumphed over Mac OS in the personal computer marketplace for 11 years before finally being replaced by Win95?
None of this is the case with PC command lines. The syntax, spelling, and formatting has to be exact or else it won't work. There is very little wiggle room. If the average person had to write a perfectly spelled, perfectly grammatical sentence using only specific hand-picked words in order to be understood, then mass literacy would be impossible.
If you misspell something, the computer will say 'huh?' and throw syntax error. You'll go back to your history, find your typo and be on your way. This is really not beyond most people.
Anyways, with tab completion, people should hardly ever be making errors unless they already know the commands by heart.
A PC is not a DVD player. A PC is a lever for the mind, thus I don't really consider anyone computer literate who can't write a short program. After all, while we don't expect the average person to write a novel or even a press release, we do include the ability to compose a few short paragraphs of readable text in the definition of English literacy.
This is so true. It was a dark day when the idea that a common user should be able to use a computer without even minimal programming ability became the norm. Instead of teaching the illiterate to read, we decided the books should talk. :(
Getting the illiterate moved to Android or iProducts will be a net win since they will then stop exerting undue market influence on dumbing down computers because, illiterate as they might be, as militantly proud of their illiteracy as all too many are, they had to use one until recently to have acces to the most basic word processing, email and web access.
PLEASE NO! I really like my cheapo personal super computers. I know exploitation is bad ... but still.
Average Users (Joe Web Browser or Sally Word Processor) don't use or need a CLI, never have. That goes way way back to the DOS days by the way (obviously before Web Browsing), when a dual floppy was required to boot DOS and load Wordperfect. They didn't know DOS and didn't need to. But bet your ass some guy used a CLI to make the Average User function day to day.
No way dude. The common WP DOS user needed at least minimal DOS knowledge to admin their system. In the USA, dual floppy systems were more the exception that the rule. In order to use a DOS hard disk box with multiple applications installed, your going to at least need know basic things about paths. Once you're walking the dir structure with the command line, moving/ deleting files, formatting floppy disks, etc the more complex stuff can added be organically.
I suspect many a computer nerd was born from the need to run WP or some odd game on DOS.
LOL. That's not fair. Any average user who is willing to use the command line is automatically given nerd status.
I do, Windows Upgrade licenses are great. Unlike OEM licenses, you can move them to a new computer when your old one becomes obsolete. My WinXP Upgrade saw use on 3 consecutive computers.
I would never use Upgrade media for anything but a fresh install though.
Funny, Win7 and Win8 preview are slightly laggy on my desktop. WinXP SP3 feels a lot like XFCE in responsiveness (I do keep a pretty bare install though).
Athlon II x3 @ 3 GHz
AMD 690G
2GB RAM
Radeon 4770 512MB
Steve Jobs cried when Woz refused to cut down the number of expansion slots from seven to two.
When the graphic interface was commercialized the hacker crowd said 'who needs a mouse and pretty graphic screen when a green command line works just fine'.
Most of those hackers were probably Apple II users. If you recall Apple's old iconic logo you would know the Apple II was all about color.
Short memories indeed.
That's not quite true. The original Compaq PCs were *not* plug compatible with the original IBM PCs.
Didn't the Compaq Portable use the same 8bit ISA expansion cards as the 5150 IBM PC?
they can build it however they want - you're not obligated to buy it.
Say I want a video game console on which I can run homemade video games. Should I get a Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony console? They're all locked down.
Uhmmm... if you can run arbitrary binaries on an unmodded console, it's not a console.
No, the Raspberry Pi is a trainer board like the KIM-1, not a desktop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIM-1
Yeah, it's really sad. :(
Greater internet dickwad theory at work.
Do you think your experience with a 17 year old consumer "VR Helmet" is still relevant today? 6DOF FPS like Descent2 make many people pukey even with normal displays.
She is the most famous pilot ever
Nope. Chuck Yeager is the most famous pilot ever. And people still know who he is.
He doesn't count. Designing a popular flight sim doesn't make you a pilot! XD
What's next, Sid Meier is the best ruler ever?
The PSP software market was destroyed? By what metric? Its library seems too good for that. I've only got 12 games at the moment but I could easily name another 20 that are of interest to me. I doubt I'm exceptional.
If need be, we will reboot the revolution by hand-soldering logic circuits out of regular transistors.
Good luck getting such circuits to communicate over any public network.
Does the internet count? ;)
"Magic-1 is a completely homebuilt minicomputer. It doesn't use an off-the-shelf microprocessor, but instead has a custom CPU made out of 74 Series TTL chips. Altogether there are more than 200 chips in Magic-1 connected together with thousands of individually wrapped wires. And, it works. Not only the hardware, but a full software stack. There's a ANSI C cross-compiler for Magic-1 (retargeted LCC), a fully multi-user, multi-tasking port of the Minix 2 operating system. a TCP/IP stack and hundreds of programs."
MAGIC-1
http://www.homebrewcpu.com/
That would be RtCW I believe.
Uh, no. Zenimax okayed the release of Arx Fatalis source code earlier this year. This isn't just an id thing.
You've been able to install Windows without an optical drive since at least Windows 98.
In order to use your 20 year old software, you have just obligated yourself to maintain 20 year old storage peripherals. Congrats on your new hobby.
LOL. I understand the sentiment but that's kind of sweeping.
You do realize that a huge percentage of the 13 original colonies' immigrants were slaves, convict laborers, and indentured servants right? I'd wager a fair number of them would've accepted a ticket home if offered.
I personally don't have guts to call a native american an immigrant but I may just be a wuss. I suppose the way the US has pushed them around the continent, into increasingly smaller pockets of the country may make it technically acurate. Pop culture says they had no concept of property but at least in hindsight, I'm sure they'd have been all for border control had they the means to go about it. Pretty tragic really.
I love the national creation myth as much as the next person but are we really a nation of immigrants or a daughter of imperialism?
But what protects your ide raid card? ;)