"but how does any thinking person look at the Bush foreign or social policy and see anything but corruption, insanity, and abject failure?"
The other side said the same about Clinton. This particular "debate" boils down to whether or not you like the guy because he is in your political side (or against your political side).
"In America, 1.5% of the population are of semite ethinicity. Need I go into the details of just one person such as Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein) shareholder of 76% of the Viacom shares among many others?"
What does it mean? Nothing. You are digging yet another hole, attempting to "prove a point" about the evil Jews by digging for supposedly Jewish surnames. (I wish I could count how many times a Jew-basher made a "punchline" of merely typing a name that is supposedly Jewish!). How many did you find there ending in "berg" or "stein"? How many "Rosenblatts" is too much for an industry? Is there a certain trigger to cause "overrepresentation?".
You claimed it was "indeed a crime" and "illegal" for this nation and its population of more than 5 million Jews (a significant proportion and concentration) to even exist. Your "Jews control the media" claim was in your subtly worded jab at "overconcentration" of Jews.
I can't imagine being so consumed with hatred to want to exterminate a nation, to be concerned about the ethnicity/religion of those "in media", and to want to tell lies about an important event in World War 2. There's one thing that links all of these views....
"This happens EVERY SINGLE time anyone says anything against Israel or anyone questions the validity of the current holocaust account."
1) It doesn't happen every time. Only when someone expresses extreme hatred for the country and its people, as shown in your statement that it was "indeed a crime" for them to even exist.
2) The facts about the Holocaust and its numbers are well-documented history. Extremely well documented, in fact. There's also a high correlation between those who lie and claim the numbers were lower (as you did) and those who express blatantly antisemitic views (such as your "Jews are overrepresented in media" code-word claim. This makes Holocaust liars into a worse breed than someone like, lets, say, a flat-earther (who similarly lies about well-known facts).
#2 is merely a matter of ignorance. Check any dictionary for the definition of antisemitic. The word itself is not a slur, but is accurately used when someone engages in slurs against Jews.
" have no doubt that both the holocaust rememberers inflate the figures to make it seem worst"
So, are you really joining those who are saying that the actual numbers (around 6 million) are not real? That fits on with how you ignore facts when you don't like them. If you really want to help your case, you should learn what really happened and what words really mean.
That analogy might be valid if not for the fact that there have always been Jews in that area. Long before the brutal Arab invasion and occupation (around 700 AD) in fact.
"Yes. It is indeed a crime for Israel to exist. It is definitely an illegal state."
How can a nation be "illegal"? By what standard? Your own law? The largest "school of thought" that the very existence of the Israelis is "illegal" comes from Islamic law.
"Yes yes. Everyone who doesn't like Israel must be anti-semitic."
Depends on how the "dislike" is. Do you not like it because of the climate and the food? Or does your "dislike" mean that you think it is "illegal", want it wiped out, or any other of the euphemisms used for the usual demand for genocide?
"EVERYONE is prejudiced to a degree"
Just like everyone drinks coffee? Speak for yourself.
"Tell that to Jews Against the Occupation"
I am aware of this and other groups of self-hating Jews.
"Even in Mexico, where I'm from, it is mostly taught that zionism and Israel are not particularly good ideas. "
Your schools teach racial hatred? Do you go to a version of a "madras"??? At least that might explain some of your views: you are poorly educated about the matters and your school taught you to hate.
"We do know that there's an over representation of Jewish people in, at least, the American and Mexican media"
That is an extremely antisemitic, racist and untrue statement. But it just proves the point that people who hate the Israelis and think that they are "illegal" are doing so out of a general pattern of antisemitism.
"So, to try to stigmatize and rebuke any dissention from the prevailing history of the holocaust by labeling people as anti-semitic only serves as proof of blind prejudice in your part."
Using the word "antisemitic" to correctly summarize knee-jerk hypocritical (and quite false) Jew-bashing is an example of using nouns properly. It is not an attempt to rebuke any dissent. If you don't like the word "antisemitic", then don't make antisemitic statements. You can start with the nutty Jewish media conspiracy claim you made.
"Are you really so blind that you fail to realise that what you propose as a radical new plan is pretty much a continuation of the approach Israel has been taking with their neighbours for decades now? To NO avail."
It has worked quite well: Israel survives, and the countries that have launched numerous attempts to exterminate the Israelis has not prevailed.
Has anyone reading this ever opted into e360? Or have you heard of anyone that has? (I guess, to be fair, has anyone gotten email from e360 or any of its spamsocks such as bargaindepot.net ?)
"I really think that Israel is wrong in most of the things they do with Palestinian people, and them invading Lebanon"
Why is it OK then for Lebanon to invade Israel, but not for Israel to fight back? That is what happened here. I'm glad to see you have backed away from the claim that the holocaust was smaller than it actually was and that Jews created and ran it.
Go to e360's home page. All it shows is information on their frivolous lawsuit. There's nothing to offer their marketing services, to opt in, or even opt out.
"I'm pretty sure that the hatred originally comes from how Israel was carved out of Palestine after WW2"
How about during WW2? The Palestinian government at the time was in close cooperation with Nazi Germany and conducted joint Jew-killing operations in Eastern Europe. The pogrom at Hebron occured even earlier.
"Palestine lost the rest of their land, and I'm pretty sure Israel took a large portion of Egypt, which they have since given back incrementally. "
They gave back all of the Egypt land except for Gaza, which Egypt did not want.
Ever hear of a pirate stealing software? Not yet.
on
Pirates Vs. Publishers
·
· Score: 1
"... part of their arguments that software piracy isn't theft."
Of course the two are different crimes. All you have to do is consider what words mean, and silly "debaters" who confuse one crime with another will vanish. I have yet to hear of any kind of pirate who has ever been involved with stealing software, though I guess it might have happened in the China Seas in recent years.
"Israel has UN resolutions against them for what amounts to war-crimes"
The main "crime" for which they are condemned is existing. Much of the others have to do with condemning Israel for fighting back when attacked and condemning Israel for legally occupying countries after these countries attack it and refuse to call off the attacks. The characterization of the UN being "antisemitic" is accurate. That is the root of these "resolutions". Why does Syria invade Lebanon and do far worse, but it's Israel that gets the resolutions against it? The resolutions reflect hypocritical hatred of a nation and its people. Also, when several of the worst antisemitic resolutions passed, an actual card-carrying Nazi (Kurt Waldheim) ran the UN. This is no mere Godwin invocation: Waldheim belonged to Hitler's actual organization.
You claim not to be antisemitic, but you nicely bring up the "media influence" (codeword for "Jews control the media"). Further on you say "people are generally as likeable as anyone else and often a bit smarter" as if this attempt at positive racism (one ethnic group more intelligent than the other???) is any good. Actually, it fits in with well-troden stereotypes of the cunningly intelligent, evil, conniving Jew.
"That holocast (which did happen of course, but was much smaller in scope than is advertised)"
There is a very strong correlation between those who lie about the Holocaust and claim it did not occur or was much less than it actually was (as you just did) with people who are antisemitic. This, along with your claim that Jews caused the Holocaust that you falsely claim was small, is indeed "HATEFUL TO JEWISH PEOPLE"
So here we have false claims about Israel in order to bash Jews, and false claims about the Holocaust in order to bash Jews. I don't "call you antisemitic". You identify yourself as such with the irrational Jew-bashing and smearing Jews with hatred. Not surprising that you post as an AC.
Hopefully, yes. However, you don't really have economic freedom without political freedom and freedom of speech. How can you make informed decisions about economic matters when you are gagged?
"Of course wanting to slaughter your enemies because they have been beating the ever living shit out of you for decades now has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all."
Can you back up your emphatic claim with support from an unbiased source?
The recent unprovoked invasion (with killing and kidnapping of innocent people) of Israel in an open and admitted act of the elected legitimate government of Palestine is a perfect example of how the aggression and ill intent is a one-way street.
"No other country on Earth would be given as much freedom to terrorise and invade other nations as that given to Israel."
They have terrorized no nations, and have "invaded" countries only after being forced to: by the other country invading them first. The best example of "other country on Earth would [given] as much freedom to terrorise" is with the number of Arab countries that openly engage in and fund terrorist aggression against Israel (through Hamas, etc) with way too little international outrage.
"...drive the ever-expanding country of Israel back behind its rightful borders."
Hesbollah's stated goal is to drive Israel to no borders at all (non-existence) and exterminate the Jews along the way.
" And they've been allowed to develop nuclear weapons"
That's a good thing. It's put the damper on some countries that want to launch yet more unprovoked aggression against Israel.
" I can see why someone might want to argue that Hezbollah was just a rogue terrorist organization and not a representation of Lebanon's government"
It is actually a representation of Lebanon's government. In the 1960s, the Lebanese government agreed to host and foster foreign terrorist armies on his soil as long as these armies worked to exterminate the Israelis. Lebanon has not rescinded this order. As such, Israel is within its legal and reasonable self-defense rights to strike back at the Lebanese government when Hesbollah invades Israel.
Slashdot Mirror
"but how does any thinking person look at the Bush foreign or social policy and see anything but corruption, insanity, and abject failure?"
The other side said the same about Clinton. This particular "debate" boils down to whether or not you like the guy because he is in your political side (or against your political side).
"In America, 1.5% of the population are of semite ethinicity. Need I go into the details of just one person such as Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein) shareholder of 76% of the Viacom shares among many others?"
What does it mean? Nothing. You are digging yet another hole, attempting to "prove a point" about the evil Jews by digging for supposedly Jewish surnames. (I wish I could count how many times a Jew-basher made a "punchline" of merely typing a name that is supposedly Jewish!). How many did you find there ending in "berg" or "stein"? How many "Rosenblatts" is too much for an industry? Is there a certain trigger to cause "overrepresentation?".
You claimed it was "indeed a crime" and "illegal" for this nation and its population of more than 5 million Jews (a significant proportion and concentration) to even exist. Your "Jews control the media" claim was in your subtly worded jab at "overconcentration" of Jews.
I can't imagine being so consumed with hatred to want to exterminate a nation, to be concerned about the ethnicity/religion of those "in media", and to want to tell lies about an important event in World War 2. There's one thing that links all of these views....
"This happens EVERY SINGLE time anyone says anything against Israel or anyone questions the validity of the current holocaust account."
1) It doesn't happen every time. Only when someone expresses extreme hatred for the country and its people, as shown in your statement that it was "indeed a crime" for them to even exist.
2) The facts about the Holocaust and its numbers are well-documented history. Extremely well documented, in fact. There's also a high correlation between those who lie and claim the numbers were lower (as you did) and those who express blatantly antisemitic views (such as your "Jews are overrepresented in media" code-word claim. This makes Holocaust liars into a worse breed than someone like, lets, say, a flat-earther (who similarly lies about well-known facts).
They fired the first shot by drawing cartoons, you know.
#2 is merely a matter of ignorance. Check any dictionary for the definition of antisemitic. The word itself is not a slur, but is accurately used when someone engages in slurs against Jews.
" have no doubt that both the holocaust rememberers inflate the figures to make it seem worst"
So, are you really joining those who are saying that the actual numbers (around 6 million) are not real? That fits on with how you ignore facts when you don't like them. If you really want to help your case, you should learn what really happened and what words really mean.
Of course. It is "prejudiced" to defend the rights of people to live. Any fair and unbiased person would agree that the Israelis should be wiped out.
The real reason is that a huge proportion of its membership is made up of dictators.
That analogy might be valid if not for the fact that there have always been Jews in that area. Long before the brutal Arab invasion and occupation (around 700 AD) in fact.
"About Zionist agendas in WWII and other weird stuff: http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html [ku.edu] http://christianparty.net/hitlerfounderisrael.htm [christianparty.net] http://christianparty.net/nazi.htm [christianparty.net]"
You are most helpful. I really did want to know what the KKK had to say about it.
Maybe the real cause for antisemitism is because the existence of Jews is "illegal" and they control the media. Those were a couple of your claims.
"Yes. It is indeed a crime for Israel to exist. It is definitely an illegal state."
How can a nation be "illegal"? By what standard? Your own law? The largest "school of thought" that the very existence of the Israelis is "illegal" comes from Islamic law.
"Yes yes. Everyone who doesn't like Israel must be anti-semitic."
Depends on how the "dislike" is. Do you not like it because of the climate and the food? Or does your "dislike" mean that you think it is "illegal", want it wiped out, or any other of the euphemisms used for the usual demand for genocide?
"EVERYONE is prejudiced to a degree"
Just like everyone drinks coffee? Speak for yourself.
"Tell that to Jews Against the Occupation"
I am aware of this and other groups of self-hating Jews.
"Even in Mexico, where I'm from, it is mostly taught that zionism and Israel are not particularly good ideas. "
Your schools teach racial hatred? Do you go to a version of a "madras"??? At least that might explain some of your views: you are poorly educated about the matters and your school taught you to hate.
"We do know that there's an over representation of Jewish people in, at least, the American and Mexican media"
That is an extremely antisemitic, racist and untrue statement. But it just proves the point that people who hate the Israelis and think that they are "illegal" are doing so out of a general pattern of antisemitism.
"So, to try to stigmatize and rebuke any dissention from the prevailing history of the holocaust by labeling people as anti-semitic only serves as proof of blind prejudice in your part."
Using the word "antisemitic" to correctly summarize knee-jerk hypocritical (and quite false) Jew-bashing is an example of using nouns properly. It is not an attempt to rebuke any dissent. If you don't like the word "antisemitic", then don't make antisemitic statements. You can start with the nutty Jewish media conspiracy claim you made.
"Are you really so blind that you fail to realise that what you propose as a radical new plan is pretty much a continuation of the approach Israel has been taking with their neighbours for decades now? To NO avail."
It has worked quite well: Israel survives, and the countries that have launched numerous attempts to exterminate the Israelis has not prevailed.
Has anyone reading this ever opted into e360? Or have you heard of anyone that has? (I guess, to be fair, has anyone gotten email from e360 or any of its spamsocks such as bargaindepot.net ?)
"I really think that Israel is wrong in most of the things they do with Palestinian people, and them invading Lebanon"
Why is it OK then for Lebanon to invade Israel, but not for Israel to fight back? That is what happened here. I'm glad to see you have backed away from the claim that the holocaust was smaller than it actually was and that Jews created and ran it.
Go to e360's home page. All it shows is information on their frivolous lawsuit. There's nothing to offer their marketing services, to opt in, or even opt out.
"I'm pretty sure that the hatred originally comes from how Israel was carved out of Palestine after WW2"
How about during WW2? The Palestinian government at the time was in close cooperation with Nazi Germany and conducted joint Jew-killing operations in Eastern Europe. The pogrom at Hebron occured even earlier.
"Palestine lost the rest of their land, and I'm pretty sure Israel took a large portion of Egypt, which they have since given back incrementally. "
They gave back all of the Egypt land except for Gaza, which Egypt did not want.
"... part of their arguments that software piracy isn't theft."
Of course the two are different crimes. All you have to do is consider what words mean, and silly "debaters" who confuse one crime with another will vanish. I have yet to hear of any kind of pirate who has ever been involved with stealing software, though I guess it might have happened in the China Seas in recent years.
"they should stop calling software-stealers such a cool nickname. "
Actually, I've never heard those who complain about pirates say a thing about those who steal software. Instead, they condemn copyright-infringers.
"Israel has UN resolutions against them for what amounts to war-crimes"
The main "crime" for which they are condemned is existing. Much of the others have to do with condemning Israel for fighting back when attacked and condemning Israel for legally occupying countries after these countries attack it and refuse to call off the attacks. The characterization of the UN being "antisemitic" is accurate. That is the root of these "resolutions". Why does Syria invade Lebanon and do far worse, but it's Israel that gets the resolutions against it? The resolutions reflect hypocritical hatred of a nation and its people. Also, when several of the worst antisemitic resolutions passed, an actual card-carrying Nazi (Kurt Waldheim) ran the UN. This is no mere Godwin invocation: Waldheim belonged to Hitler's actual organization.
You claim not to be antisemitic, but you nicely bring up the "media influence" (codeword for "Jews control the media"). Further on you say "people are generally as likeable as anyone else and often a bit smarter" as if this attempt at positive racism (one ethnic group more intelligent than the other???) is any good. Actually, it fits in with well-troden stereotypes of the cunningly intelligent, evil, conniving Jew.
"That holocast (which did happen of course, but was much smaller in scope than is advertised)"
There is a very strong correlation between those who lie about the Holocaust and claim it did not occur or was much less than it actually was (as you just did) with people who are antisemitic. This, along with your claim that Jews caused the Holocaust that you falsely claim was small, is indeed "HATEFUL TO JEWISH PEOPLE"
So here we have false claims about Israel in order to bash Jews, and false claims about the Holocaust in order to bash Jews. I don't "call you antisemitic". You identify yourself as such with the irrational Jew-bashing and smearing Jews with hatred. Not surprising that you post as an AC.
Hopefully, yes. However, you don't really have economic freedom without political freedom and freedom of speech. How can you make informed decisions about economic matters when you are gagged?
"Of course wanting to slaughter your enemies because they have been beating the ever living shit out of you for decades now has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all."
Can you back up your emphatic claim with support from an unbiased source?
The recent unprovoked invasion (with killing and kidnapping of innocent people) of Israel in an open and admitted act of the elected legitimate government of Palestine is a perfect example of how the aggression and ill intent is a one-way street.
"No other country on Earth would be given as much freedom to terrorise and invade other nations as that given to Israel."
They have terrorized no nations, and have "invaded" countries only after being forced to: by the other country invading them first. The best example of "other country on Earth would [given] as much freedom to terrorise" is with the number of Arab countries that openly engage in and fund terrorist aggression against Israel (through Hamas, etc) with way too little international outrage.
"...drive the ever-expanding country of Israel back behind its rightful borders."
Hesbollah's stated goal is to drive Israel to no borders at all (non-existence) and exterminate the Jews along the way.
" And they've been allowed to develop nuclear weapons"
That's a good thing. It's put the damper on some countries that want to launch yet more unprovoked aggression against Israel.
" I can see why someone might want to argue that Hezbollah was just a rogue terrorist organization and not a representation of Lebanon's government"
It is actually a representation of Lebanon's government. In the 1960s, the Lebanese government agreed to host and foster foreign terrorist armies on his soil as long as these armies worked to exterminate the Israelis. Lebanon has not rescinded this order. As such, Israel is within its legal and reasonable self-defense rights to strike back at the Lebanese government when Hesbollah invades Israel.