" Christians were even worse. Jews migrated to Muslim areas where they could live in peace."
Yes, Christians were even worse. However, they did not really "live in peace" in the Muslim areas. They were subject to laws that punished them and taxed them for being Jewish; laws that treated them as second class citizens unless they converted to Islam. The pogroms and torture did occur, although less than in the Christian lands. Same with the Caliphs ordering hundreds of synagogues destroyed. The Jews moved from a place that treated them outrageously bad to a place that treated them a little less outrageously bad.
I didn't get anything "backwards", as I was not comparing the oppressive treatment under occupation by the Arab/etc Empire to anything else. I know that generally the Muslim world was kinder to the Jews than the Christian world. However, this does not make the Muslim treatment of their Jewish subjects "good" just because it was not as bad (most of the time) as what the Christians did.
Also, there were significant instances of Jews being "repeatedly slaughtered" by the Muslim Empire. This is especially in its founding: Muhammad ordered the Jews of what is now Saudi Arabia exterminated. When the Arabs invaded the Israel area, the Jews (and others) were told to convert or die. Those who refused were tolerated but were punished for their insolence. It is still pretty much illegal to be Jewish in Saudi Arabia.
"Er, that's from the Iranian president. I'm not sure what relevance this has to the Palestine situation."
It's also mainstream Palestinian belief.
"Don't you have the faintest suspicion that you are creating something of a Frankenstein monster by joining all unsavoury aspects of the muslim 'side' into one cherry picked beast?"
If the beast creates itself (through no help from me), I am not on error in pointing it out.
Sorry, you forgot that China annexed Hong Kong in 1997. It transferred from British imperial rule to Chinese imperial rule. (no one ever thought to ask the people of Kong Kong). Hong Kong is not a nation. It is also not "laissez fair", as Chinese control filters in. They have also been given a deadline of 50 years to have economic freedom, which is a threat that totalitarian communism will drop like a boom sometime around 2047. Hardly a situation of freedom with a threat like this.
The parent was correct in not mentioning Hong Kong as an advanced nation. It's not a nation, and China is proclaimed that it will trash the place in a few decades anyway.
I suggest you look into events going back to the Muslim Empire conquest of the area, the "Islamic laws" to punish people from being Jewish which were imposed on the occupied people for all those centuries, the caliphs destroying synagogues, all the way up the Ottomans continuing the punishment by taxing Jews just for being Jews, and into the 20th century with such incidences as the Hebron pogrom.
"Of course wanting to slaughter your enemies because they have been beating the ever living shit out of you for decades now has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all."
So this excuses rabid antisemitism? You forget the fact that this mostly one-way rabid hatred of Jewish people goes back to before Israel, before the Zionist movement. I wonder if it would ever occur to them that if they stopped attacking Israel, Israel will leave them alone. It worked when Egypt tried it.
You came in late. The holocaust deniers part is relevant to the story, and some AC further up made some statements about people believing life started in the year 6 AD.
"Yeah, and niggers are good at basketball, Jews carry a bag of gold around their neck everywhere they go, and all Germans are Nazis."
Thanks, Dr. Godwin. The last one brings us back on topic, to a nation where a majority of the people insist as an important goal the extermination of another nation. By coincidence, the reason for the wanted extermination is because the targettted people happen to be Jewish.
I don't see how those points, valid as they are sometimes, have anything to do with me pointing out that stereotypes concerning violent Muslims are not helped by the games described in the message you responded to. Perhaps you meant to hit "Reply" to the top level news item instead?
Actually, it is possible in many instances to evaluate whether a description of a historical event is accurate or not. In situations where there is a lot of documentation and evidence, the error and "conjecture" level become so small that it wastes time to even consider it.
The "holocaust did not happen" one does have something to do with the story, actually.
The one that is really, really "out of here" is the one about the people you mentioned who believe that life began 2,000 years ago. Can't imagine they'd be fundamentalist Christians who would believe that life on earth began some time when Christ was a teenager. I don't think you'll find many A.D. 6 creationists anywhere.
The blue crest makes a pretty good target, however it takes a LOT of bullets from the chain-gun to kill it shooting at the crest compared to aiming for the center of its breast.
"If you're concerned with the way you're portrayed how about you stop blowing us up?"
More to the videogame topic, I don't think these games where they choose to portray themselves specifically blowing us up are really going to help the portrayal problem.
"Is it a Halal beef sausage wrapped in Turkey Bacon?"
I'm not sure it is Turkey Bacon. However, chances are it is less than 6 degrees removed from Turkey Bacon in the recipe book (using connections of common ingredients).
"Recognizing the Palestinians' side of things is not the same as hating Israel."
Somewhat true. However, the current Palestinian government, elected democratically, does not even recognize the rights of the Israelis to exist. That's pretty hateful when you think about it.
"I cheered for Israel when they went to get their kidnapped soldiers back, but I also feel Palestine should have their own territory, and be treated under the same rules of conduct as every other country."
I agree, but also understand how Israel feels it can not leave to its own devices a country where the government seeks to wipe out the Israelis.
"'Our games are a reflection of our history -- past or present. The fact is, most movies, most TV shows, most video games put Muslims in a bad light, so we have to try to tell our side of the story.'"
Here is one example of how they do this: "Armed with a rifle, a shotgun or a grenade launcher, players navigate various missions that include "Jihad Growing Up," "Americans' Hell" and "Bush Hunted Like a Rat." In the final stage, you fight Bush.". So tell me, does this defy stereotypes at all? How is it a "good light" to make games in which Muslims are presented as violent commandos... the only difference being that they are the "first person" in the shooter and not the armed enemies for once? Or the other game in which "The goal is to kill"?
The game creators seem to think that it is a positive portrayal of Muslims to change them from being terrorists who are shot at to terrorists who are shooting.
"Just in case the article writer (and the media) hadn't noticed, there are plenty of Muslims in the west too. Come to that most of the East is full of Chinese people, who on the whole are about as Muslim as a a beer flavour sausage wrapped in bacon."
I thought about that, but found out that the number/proportion of Muslims is really quite small compared to the rest of the population of the Western Hemisphere, even when you do include Morocco and the western edge of Africa.
Slashdot Mirror
I see I have gained another enemy for my opposition to genocidal antisemitism. Whoopie.
" Christians were even worse. Jews migrated to Muslim areas where they could live in peace."
Yes, Christians were even worse. However, they did not really "live in peace" in the Muslim areas. They were subject to laws that punished them and taxed them for being Jewish; laws that treated them as second class citizens unless they converted to Islam. The pogroms and torture did occur, although less than in the Christian lands. Same with the Caliphs ordering hundreds of synagogues destroyed. The Jews moved from a place that treated them outrageously bad to a place that treated them a little less outrageously bad.
I didn't get anything "backwards", as I was not comparing the oppressive treatment under occupation by the Arab/etc Empire to anything else. I know that generally the Muslim world was kinder to the Jews than the Christian world. However, this does not make the Muslim treatment of their Jewish subjects "good" just because it was not as bad (most of the time) as what the Christians did.
Also, there were significant instances of Jews being "repeatedly slaughtered" by the Muslim Empire. This is especially in its founding: Muhammad ordered the Jews of what is now Saudi Arabia exterminated. When the Arabs invaded the Israel area, the Jews (and others) were told to convert or die. Those who refused were tolerated but were punished for their insolence. It is still pretty much illegal to be Jewish in Saudi Arabia.
Which is worse, the frying pan or the fire?
Please provide a respectable and unbiased citation for your claim.
"Er, that's from the Iranian president. I'm not sure what relevance this has to the Palestine situation."
It's also mainstream Palestinian belief.
"Don't you have the faintest suspicion that you are creating something of a Frankenstein monster by joining all unsavoury aspects of the muslim 'side' into one cherry picked beast?"
If the beast creates itself (through no help from me), I am not on error in pointing it out.
Sorry, you forgot that China annexed Hong Kong in 1997. It transferred from British imperial rule to Chinese imperial rule. (no one ever thought to ask the people of Kong Kong). Hong Kong is not a nation. It is also not "laissez fair", as Chinese control filters in. They have also been given a deadline of 50 years to have economic freedom, which is a threat that totalitarian communism will drop like a boom sometime around 2047. Hardly a situation of freedom with a threat like this.
The parent was correct in not mentioning Hong Kong as an advanced nation. It's not a nation, and China is proclaimed that it will trash the place in a few decades anyway.
I suggest you look into events going back to the Muslim Empire conquest of the area, the "Islamic laws" to punish people from being Jewish which were imposed on the occupied people for all those centuries, the caliphs destroying synagogues, all the way up the Ottomans continuing the punishment by taxing Jews just for being Jews, and into the 20th century with such incidences as the Hebron pogrom.
"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will leave everybody blind and toothless."
Sorry, I'd bite back, but I all I have left are gums, and I can't see you anyway.
"oh and all this whining about "israel shouldn't exist"
So we should accept a demand for genocide against an entire nation? I need to learn to not respond to antisemitic AC's.
"Of course wanting to slaughter your enemies because they have been beating the ever living shit out of you for decades now has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all."
So this excuses rabid antisemitism? You forget the fact that this mostly one-way rabid hatred of Jewish people goes back to before Israel, before the Zionist movement. I wonder if it would ever occur to them that if they stopped attacking Israel, Israel will leave them alone. It worked when Egypt tried it.
You came in late. The holocaust deniers part is relevant to the story, and some AC further up made some statements about people believing life started in the year 6 AD.
"Yeah, and niggers are good at basketball, Jews carry a bag of gold around their neck everywhere they go, and all Germans are Nazis."
Thanks, Dr. Godwin. The last one brings us back on topic, to a nation where a majority of the people insist as an important goal the extermination of another nation. By coincidence, the reason for the wanted extermination is because the targettted people happen to be Jewish.
"And using crappy business jargon like "flavor" to describe an entirely tasteless entity (software code, in this instance) is retarded"
Oh? Then you have a problem with this statement in the parent post "Fedora is the flavor"? Oh, go lick a hat!
I don't see how those points, valid as they are sometimes, have anything to do with me pointing out that stereotypes concerning violent Muslims are not helped by the games described in the message you responded to. Perhaps you meant to hit "Reply" to the top level news item instead?
Actually, it is possible in many instances to evaluate whether a description of a historical event is accurate or not. In situations where there is a lot of documentation and evidence, the error and "conjecture" level become so small that it wastes time to even consider it.
Astronomy
'Ethically Killed Tofurkey'
Do you ethnically cleanse the curds during the cooking process?
The "holocaust did not happen" one does have something to do with the story, actually.
The one that is really, really "out of here" is the one about the people you mentioned who believe that life began 2,000 years ago. Can't imagine they'd be fundamentalist Christians who would believe that life on earth began some time when Christ was a teenager. I don't think you'll find many A.D. 6 creationists anywhere.
"or the blue-crested spotted warbler crane"
The blue crest makes a pretty good target, however it takes a LOT of bullets from the chain-gun to kill it shooting at the crest compared to aiming for the center of its breast.
"This is a great idea! I've seen way too many Russian-accented actors out on the street because all the terrorist roles are full."
Those are really just actors? I had one come up to me once and demand to know where they kept the "nuclear wessels". I got kind of scared.
So, someone who believes in flying saucers is just the same as some sicko who says "The Holocaust did not happen (but it should have)"?
"If you're concerned with the way you're portrayed how about you stop blowing us up?"
More to the videogame topic, I don't think these games where they choose to portray themselves specifically blowing us up are really going to help the portrayal problem.
"Is it a Halal beef sausage wrapped in Turkey Bacon?"
I'm not sure it is Turkey Bacon. However, chances are it is less than 6 degrees removed from Turkey Bacon in the recipe book (using connections of common ingredients).
"Recognizing the Palestinians' side of things is not the same as hating Israel."
Somewhat true. However, the current Palestinian government, elected democratically, does not even recognize the rights of the Israelis to exist. That's pretty hateful when you think about it.
"I cheered for Israel when they went to get their kidnapped soldiers back, but I also feel Palestine should have their own territory, and be treated under the same rules of conduct as every other country."
I agree, but also understand how Israel feels it can not leave to its own devices a country where the government seeks to wipe out the Israelis.
"'Our games are a reflection of our history -- past or present. The fact is, most movies, most TV shows, most video games put Muslims in a bad light, so we have to try to tell our side of the story.'"
Here is one example of how they do this: "Armed with a rifle, a shotgun or a grenade launcher, players navigate various missions that include "Jihad Growing Up," "Americans' Hell" and "Bush Hunted Like a Rat." In the final stage, you fight Bush.". So tell me, does this defy stereotypes at all? How is it a "good light" to make games in which Muslims are presented as violent commandos... the only difference being that they are the "first person" in the shooter and not the armed enemies for once? Or the other game in which "The goal is to kill"?
The game creators seem to think that it is a positive portrayal of Muslims to change them from being terrorists who are shot at to terrorists who are shooting.
"Just in case the article writer (and the media) hadn't noticed, there are plenty of Muslims in the west too. Come to that most of the East is full of Chinese people, who on the whole are about as Muslim as a a beer flavour sausage wrapped in bacon."
I thought about that, but found out that the number/proportion of Muslims is really quite small compared to the rest of the population of the Western Hemisphere, even when you do include Morocco and the western edge of Africa.