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Pirates Vs. Publishers

1up is running a piece looking at the fight between pirates and publishers in the games industry. They use StarForce, and their frustrating copy protection scheme, as a basis for their discussion of both sides of the issue. From the article: "The goal isn't to encourage people to be honest, or to drive innovation in the hacker community, or to be an irritant because you've lost your CD and want to play. The goal of a publisher in picking a copy protection service is to make more money by selling more copies. The logic is that if it's impossible to pirate the game, then people have to buy it if they want it. Why doesn't that work? If your copy protection is StarForce, then it doesn't work because people are boycotting your copy protection. StarForce, which installs a hard-to-remove driver onto your computer, has an unproven but generally accepted track record of causing computers to slow down -- at best. Some reports have complained of permanently damaged physical drives or hard drives."

175 comments

  1. Pirates by nog_lorp · · Score: 5, Funny

    Perhaps if they want people to stop stealing their software, they should stop calling software-stealers such a cool nickname. Arrrr!

    1. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, if you s/Pirates/Lameasses/ it's not so cool.

      Of course, the games are just as fun to play when they've been cracked, so there's that.

    2. Re:Pirates by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but knowing I'm a pirate significantly increases my enjoyment. You know, on the off chance I'm using stolen software. Which I don't.

      And, as an aside, congratulations on reducing the words "replace" and "with" to 4 symbols, while destroying the legibilaty!

    3. Re:Pirates by roseblood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One would think that swords and primitive firearms would beat out the guy with the stack of papers and the odd mechanical contraption.

      History has proven otherwise.

      Unfortunately in this age those who plunder are the publishers (in the music business at least.) Have you seen the contracts new artists end up having to sign?

      I know...RTFA, it's software publishers not music.

      --
      There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    4. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is slashdot, you're expected to understand how to use sed as a prerequisite for being here.

    5. Re:Pirates by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

      Well, outnerdage, regexp isn't inherently sed.

    6. Re:Pirates by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Actually, games are probably more more fun to play when cracked, since all the annoyances the copy protection force "honest" users to endure are gone. I haven't played PC games in a long time, but back when I was a kid, copy-protected games were a total PITA to play. Usually, the game would ask some inane question on start-up like "what is the 4th word in the 2nd paragraph on page 19 of the manual?", or require you to look something up on a code wheel included with the game. With a cracked/pirated game, none of this crap was necessary; you just started up the game and started playing.

    7. Re:Pirates by Astarica · · Score: 1

      The benefits of piracy is a sign of bad design in the first place, not the benefit of piracy.

      For example, the 'turbo mode' found on the SNES emulators makes playing many SNES games far more enjoyable than originally. This doesn't mean pirating SNES games has some inherent value. It means a feature like 'turbo mode' is a very good idea if it is at all implementable. Clearly you can't just turbo mode stuff like loading time, but there's no reason why you can't be allowed to walk at 4X the speed if you want to. Chrono Cross does this, and it makes replaying the game a lot easier when you only need 1/4th the time to go through something you've no interest of seeing again (or possibly even once).

      Likewise I much prefer the 'save anywhere' feature found in almost all emulators over the actual game itself, and certainly I do not know of anyone who thinks being able to save anywhere hurts you (because you can just not use it). This suggests most people would like to be able to save often and frequently. Again it might not be technologically possible to save at anywhere, but this suggests people would prefer game with more, not less, flexible saving capabilities.

    8. Re:Pirates by farrellj · · Score: 1

      I own multiple copies of Command and Conquer (original, RA, RA2) and Dune 2000, but I want to be able to run the games under Linux. So I either have to buy something like Cedega (which is an excellent product), or reboot into Windows. But virtually all of the above program have cracked copies floading around the net, and the cracked copies work fine under standard WINE. This seems to indicate that the only reason why these program don't run under standard WINE is the copy protection. How many Linux geeks out there would be buying more games if they could easily run them under WINE?

      ttyl
                Farrell

      --
      CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
    9. Re:Pirates by Kabal` · · Score: 0
      I do not know of anyone who thinks being able to save anywhere hurts you (because you can just not use it). This suggests most people would like to be able to save often and frequently.


      I DON'T. Saving any time you want is for weak-sauce gamers and IMO destroys gameplay. It turns games into a process of:

      If (beat enemy without taking damage) then quicksave else quickload;

      I loved when Alien vs Predator was hard as hell and didn't let you save whenever you wanted. It was the best fun i'd had in a PC fps game since.. well, ever. Eventually they caved and added saving for all the cry babies. Games like Prey have had interesting ways of avoiding the quicksave/quickload without being frustrating, too.

      Dead Rising is a game that I'm really into at the moment too that has an extremely oldschool save system and I love it. However, looking around at online forums shows nothing but cry babies complaining about hard it makes it, so I guess im in the minority.
    10. Re:Pirates by ffrinch · · Score: 1

      The problem is that difficulty levels in most games are broken. Just one example: many 3D platformers have less/weaker enemies in easy mode. I usually die by falling down holes, so the "difficulty" setting is worthless.

      There's no reason why quicksave can't be part of the difficulty scale. You and the other dedicated players have to suffer through long and painful levels; people playing on the n00b difficulty level can save+load to their hearts' content. At "normal" level we might get one or two saves.

      I have a fair amount of dedication with hard games, but I *hate* to finally finish one really hard part, after ten plus tries, only to face an even harder part beyond that. If I'm still only making it past the first obstacle in one out of ten tries, I'm going to give up (and grind the game disc into a poisonous but eminently satisfying condiment).

    11. Re:Pirates by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      ahh, i remeber police quest asking for locker numbers and combinations codes from pictures inside the game manual that you though was only there to give you an idea of the enviroment before playing. I think it even asked for family members names in the bio page for the heror. Of course after about the third time a beer or something was spilt on these, they became hard to find and I ended up having to zerox someone elses copy. but they did something with the lines that made it hard to copy in black and white so i had to find a color copyer (wich was rare at this time). What a pain!

      A few years ago, I ran accross the install diskettes and a cd for that game when cleaning out a closet. No manual- copied or not so the game was still useless. and still a pain. I just know when i though it out, I will find the manuals.

    12. Re:Pirates by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. I'm one of those Noob gamers. While I've played quite a few games, I havn't the ability to spend the time to be good at any one. I'm lucky if I get more then 20-40 minutes to spend on a game every 2 or 3 days. There are some times i can spend more on it but usualy those are rare. Some scenarios cannot even be started and solved in that time frame. Saving and saving often is the only reasons i can gain levels and progress past the opening dialog.

      The options should be there, if you use it should be a choice the player makes. Saying no one should ever have this feature because i don't use it is like saying no one should make oencils because i use inkpens.

      Of course not being able to play for long lengths at a time does make it dificult at the higher levels of the game. And there becomes a time were some games just won't be finished. But the idea is someone makes a game, people buy it, people play it. Without the ability to save often, it is just a matter of me not being able to buy it because i couldn't play it. Then sometimes there comes a game that gets the controls just right for me as well as the puzzle and obsicles. These usualy go faster like with Halo, one of the games I had the time to spend on, was finished in 36 hours with 4 or five breaks of about 2 hours each.

    13. Re:Pirates by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      That's a good idea, actually. Far too many people try to use the term 'pirate' as part of their arguments that software piracy isn't theft.

    14. Re:Pirates by Kabal` · · Score: 1
      The options should be there, if you use it should be a choice the player makes. Saying no one should ever have this feature because i don't use it is like saying no one should make oencils because i use inkpens.


      The problem is if you put it there and balance the whole game difficulty around it being available, then you can't just say "yeah don't use it if you don't like it" - Because in a lot of FPS games where quicksave is available you take SO much damage SO quickly that you simply have to use it. Conversely if they made it so you didn't take damage so fast but still had the quicksave, it would be far too easy...

      I definitely feel you can balance game difficulty in a more entertaining way if the developer is the one deciding how often you can save, and when.

    15. Re:Pirates by dascandy · · Score: 1

      That's so last month...

    16. Re:Pirates by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that the needing the balance in most games is needed. Or maybe I just havn't played enough games to see the benifit. Wether the skill or damage increases or decreses wouldn't matter as much to me if after 5, 10 or 20 minutes I could save my spot and go back to needed. Making the game more dificult based in how often i use the quicksave is pretty much going to guarentee i don't finish it.

      So maybe creating a new level called Noob and making it quicksave without the extra hurdles is the answer. In regular levels or advanced levels, limit it, increase the dificulty or whatever. That or place a warning on the box stating that if you have a life or cannot spend lots of time playing the game, don't buy it. There is nothing I hate more then only being able to spend 10 minutes playing something, saving only to find out i have to redo that 10 minutes of stuff to get were i saved the game because it saved at the begining of something.

    17. Re:Pirates by Pofy · · Score: 1

      >The problem is if you put it there and balance the whole game difficulty around it
      >being available,

      The point was not to put it there AND rebalance the whole game. Why would you need to rebalance the whole game? The point was to put it there, nothing more. Those who feel the game is allready to hard, or that likes to be able to stop playing and save progress so far at their own descision and so on, can then do it. Those who likes to only save at specific points can do that as well. No need to redesign anything.

    18. Re:Pirates by Das+Modell · · Score: 1
      Perhaps if they want people to stop stealing their software, they should stop calling software-stealers such a cool nickname. Arrrr!

      Someone at Something Awful said that software piracy would decrease if it was called software faggotry. Makes sense!

      On a more serious note, I personally know one instance where the copy protection turned againts the user (me). System Shock 2 stopped working after Service Pack 2, and the only way I could make it work was to unwrap the copy protection software from the .exe. As a rather nice side-effect, the game's loading time went from 30 seconds to instantaneous because it didn't check the disc anymore.
    19. Re:Pirates by Endo13 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, see the difference is some of us get our fun out of following the story line in a game and seeing cool new concepts. We don't get our fun out of 'work'. If the game's too darn hard... screw that. I'm gonna find one I can play for FUN, not grind out my progress one small inch at a time, or have to redo what I just spent 2 hours beating because there's no darn save. But I agree with ffrinch. Having different save options for different levels of play is a great idea. Max Payne did it perfectly.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    20. Re:Pirates by krell · · Score: 1

      "they should stop calling software-stealers such a cool nickname. "

      Actually, I've never heard those who complain about pirates say a thing about those who steal software. Instead, they condemn copyright-infringers.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    21. Re:Pirates by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Remember, Google is your friend.
      A while back I decided to pull out my old copy of Starflight I. This game had one of those wheels that you had to align and read out some silly code. While I probably do have the wheel somewhere around here still, it was faster to poke around the internet and find a utility which let me type in the two settings on the wheel and then gave me back the possible codes. I have a feeling that if you spent a few minutes with Google, you could have the codes to get the game working.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    22. Re:Pirates by SythDot · · Score: 1
      And, as an aside, congratulations on reducing the words "replace" and "with" to 4 symbols, while destroying the legibilaty!

      Really? It was perfectly legible to me. Course, I read it as "sub" instead of replace. For the record, I routinely use that sort of sed structure on IRC and posting on boards, editting in vim, or wanking on /.

      And reading ahead, you're wrong, it's not regex, its sed. regex would be \d{3}-?\d{2}-?\d{4}

      --
      If you want to win, why are you playing with me?
    23. Re:Pirates by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

      you're wrong I often am :(.
      Other languages use that syntax though, I was thinking perl, but I suppose that is straight from sed anyway.

    24. Re:Pirates by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

      I have seen this somewhere. Perhaps it was Soldier of Fortune? Whatever it was, I didn't play it much (was my brother's game), so I don't remember it well. But I believe that you had a number of saves corresponding to your difficulty level. Like: super-easy (40 saves) - medium (20 saves) - hard (10 saves).

    25. Re:Pirates by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm sure your right. As a matter of fact, i just did it and found one. First hit Thanks for the push

      BTW, on a glancing, that site looks as if it would have the manual and stuff for other games too. I didn't even know it exists. Now i won't feel like it is such a gamble when looking to buy old games found at yardsales and stuff. Although the real old ones are getting harder to come by.

    26. Re:Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aye, it be true lad - Me hearties and Aye used to be buying me games afore they started be calling us pirates. Now we gotta be stealing them to preserve our pirate honour! Yarr, I never been understanding the game companies difficulty in spotting us though - we be the ones in the blouses and earrings that be buying one copy of a game the moment it comes out and then returning it an hour later to ya with the package more in tact than me shirt (buy, burn and return).

    27. Re:Pirates by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      If you're looking for old games take a look at The Home of the Underdogs
      They have just about all of the information on old games you could want, and are also useful when you have a dead disk. While 5.25" disks hold up ok, I have had more than one original disk die.
      And while I'm pushing ideas DOSBox is invaluable for nostolgic gaming.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
  2. Pirates make a superior product by d3am0n · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First off, I pay for my games. However I don't install the games I buy. I chuck the disks in the trash, download the ripped copy, and then install a no-cd crack on it. I've got a rather impressive collection of games and I do it with every single one. Quite frankly, I completely see why people pirate games. The pirate copy is much more user friendly, installation goes quicker when it's from a HDD, and there's usually no DRM infection to potentially damage my machine. I truly think publishers are also going overboard and irking honest people, if I purchase DOOM III it tells me that I cannot have a legitimately purchased copy of clone cd running, when your video game tells me what software I can and cannot own it's trying to step WAY above it's station. While I still continue to support the industry, their tactics are not thwarting pirates, and they are pissing me off in a royal way. I'm not sure how much longer I'll keep buying their cd's to make landfill fodder and parting with my hard earned money.

    1. Re:Pirates make a superior product by sinclair44 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would pretty much agree -- NoCDs and kracks are often useful even for legitamately purchased games. Having the CD constantly in the drive is really annoying, especially when on a laptop or wanting to switch back and forth between several games.

      --
      Omnes stulti sunt.
    2. Re:Pirates make a superior product by SScorpio · · Score: 4, Informative

      I used to use NoCD cracks all of the time, but I've started using Game Jackal. http://www.gamejackal.com/home.asp/

      It doesn't support Starforce, but I refuse to install any of those games on my PC anyways. They offer a free trial so you can make sure the games you want to play are supported as well.

    3. Re:Pirates make a superior product by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. I really liked Trackmania for example. I loved it and thought it was the best racing game I had ever played. All the while my DVD-ROM drive kept getting slower and slower but I thought nothing of it because it had been a while since I reinstalled Windows and just attributed it to that. Then I read that about StarForce and that Nadeo used it in Trackmania. I will never buy a Nadeo game again because of it. This story is spot on. At the rate its going StarForce is going to lose more sales than it will save.

      --
      Stop Global Warming!
      Just say no to irreversible processes!
    4. Re:Pirates make a superior product by JensenDied · · Score: 1

      So the solution, make a game, and sell a small cardboard flap with a installation key on it, and just have the server track so only one copy is on at a time, and screw the validation formula, just compare it to a database of keys shipped to stores. granted this only works with subscription based, or games lacking a singleplayer functionality.

      --

      09:F9:11:02 - 9D:74:E3:5B - D8:41:56:C5 - 63:56:88:C0

    5. Re:Pirates make a superior product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually several demos will install the StarForce driver. Ghost Recon being one of them... ;)

    6. Re:Pirates make a superior product by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had waited with much anticipation for Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. I went out and bought it the day it came out, so you can imagine my surprise when it refused to run! Why? Because I'm on XP x64. The copy protection wanted to install a low level driver and it didn't come with an x64 version, so it wouldn't let me play. So I went through all the fun of returning an opened game. A little over a year later a crack was released for it and I finally got to play the game. Thank you, RELOADED, for letting me play the franchise I love. And shame on Ubisoft, which I held in very high regards before that experience, for tainting their software with such crap.

      I tend to immediately rip any software I buy to HDD, and mount it with Daemon Tools when I need it. This created an extra problem for many other games, which will refuse to run if it detects any virtual drives. Thankfully Daemon Tools tends to keep ahead of them.

    7. Re:Pirates make a superior product by bky1701 · · Score: 1

      Until the server is cloned, Aala MMOGs.

    8. Re:Pirates make a superior product by stryyker · · Score: 0

      No DRM infection on downloaded software? Most "warez" do not adjust the installer (I remember Red Alert 2 which had protected installer too) but only modify the running executables after installation. Any baggage that is installed with the game is still there.

    9. Re:Pirates make a superior product by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      Pretty much what Steam does. You can activate your Steam account on any computer and download the games you own but you can't play them on multiple computers at the same time.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    10. Re:Pirates make a superior product by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      No, he is bitching because the game would run on his OS(the crack showed that), the copy protection scheme was the only thing stoping it. A small yet important distinction.

      And yes, the differences between windows XP and XP64 isn't all that apearent at first glance. It probably will take most nongeeks one or two of these problems to figure that out. And i don't blame them either. They buy or have an athlon 64 computer built and it comes with this cupon for windows XP-64 and not much more in the being different department except it will run on the 64x86 processor more efficiently.

    11. Re:Pirates make a superior product by DesireCampbell · · Score: 1
      Pretty much what Steam does. You can activate your Steam account on any computer and download the games you own but you can't play them on multiple computers at the same time.
      That's the plan, but you can still have multiple computers logged into the same Steam account at the same time. I've never tried getting two people on the same account to log into the same online server - but I can log in to a lan server multiple times with the same account.

      At most, Steam will tell you your 'ticket has expired' and ask you to input your password again.

      Of course, Valve might decide that I've done something wrong and disable my account, taking away over 300 dollars in videogames from me. But then I'll just go get pirated copies that'll work just as well, and never buy another Valve title again nor another game off Steam.
      --
      Whoo, signature!
      DesireCampbell.com
    12. Re:Pirates make a superior product by iainl · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, Starforce have an x64 version now. I think you need Ubisoft to patch the game to use that version of the driver, however.

      Personally, I keep my games on consoles and my work on a PC, so they won't interfere with each other this way.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    13. Re:Pirates make a superior product by Pofy · · Score: 1

      And you do HOW when you want to play off line or can't connect to the net? And you do WHAT when the server is no longer available, perhaps due tothe company ceasing to exist or decide they don't support the game any more or something else happens? Just two examples of problems with such a system.

    14. Re:Pirates make a superior product by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      That could be an effective way forward for game distribution. A discounted sony playstation video/sound card, in a Linux PC or notebook and you get an effective combination.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    15. Re:Pirates make a superior product by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I play a cracked version of BF194 (I own it, cracked for convenience). It's installed on a dell laptop and if the battery is in the laptop instead of the CD drive, it won't load.

      Now that is a PITA.

    16. Re:Pirates make a superior product by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      SC3 came out before winxp 64bit. I know cause I had beaten it before xp 64bit was on msdn.

    17. Re:Pirates make a superior product by JensenDied · · Score: 1

      Quite obviously such a model works best in subscription / server maintained games and products, and probably the only enforceable model.

      Local copies can ALWAYS be hacked or more correctly cracked with a bit of work. Which is why no matter what data you use in a client server app, you can tell the user to do something on their end, and they /can/ get around that, you must always verify things on the server end, be this in online gaming or your injection vulnerable php/mysql script, input verification is only possible server side.

      Something would need to be done on client machine in the event of a standalone verification, to deter at the least, but I would never expect to find something that couldn't be cracked locally

      --

      09:F9:11:02 - 9D:74:E3:5B - D8:41:56:C5 - 63:56:88:C0

    18. Re:Pirates make a superior product by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      My point was that portability was thrown out the window solely because of the copy protection. Worse yet, Ubisoft never released a patch to fix it.

      (btw, I was a beta tester for XP x64. Chaos Theory came out a month before XP x64 went gold, when the OS was in final RC testing.)

    19. Re:Pirates make a superior product by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      My point is that you read the system requirements. I'm sure it didn't say xp64. I understand your point, but it is silly to expect them to support something that was in beta at the time. And it is silly to expect them to patch it now when almost no one uses 64bit windows.

    20. Re:Pirates make a superior product by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      Of course, Valve might decide that I've done something wrong and disable my account, taking away over 300 dollars in videogames from me.

      Yeah the "watchdog" potential for things like Steam is definately a bit worrying. Of course in the event that they did ban my account, I would never again spend any more money with Valve.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    21. Re:Pirates make a superior product by SythDot · · Score: 1

      Or you have a game like Civ IV where for many people the only way to actually get the game to work is to get the cracked copy. This is because the copy-protection is so fscking arsed that it prevents the game running on a lot of hardware.

      I've not played the game because of its copy protection and it's less than glacial speeds, but a friend of mine who is a hardcore civ freak finally had to give up and return the game as defective.1

      1 He obvioulsy doesn't live in the US where the software vendors have made this illegal.
      --
      If you want to win, why are you playing with me?
    22. Re:Pirates make a superior product by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      They didn't just "not support" xp64, they artificially disallowed it. That's an essential difference in my mind: the former is reasonable, but the latter is not.

      The only thing "silly" here is the use of DRM to begin with.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  3. or change the content... by FunnyLookinHat · · Score: 1

    In the last year I can only think of one, maybe two, good titles worth purchasing. I download games to try them, if I enjoy them I buy them. I know not everyone will act in such an honest fashion, but on my own accord I feel that I am justified in doing this.

    If the game publishers would start putting out good games rather than absolute crap (listen up EA!) then maybe we'd all start buying things again. Same goes for the music industry.

    1. Re:or change the content... by d3am0n · · Score: 1

      I think the main issue isn't the quality of the product. What you hate I might love (I'm a Peter Molyneaux fan so heh, that's where that comes from). However at issue is the crap they put into these games cannot be uninstalled in alot of cases, is installed silently, and ontop of that it can harm the functionality of a pristine system (I'm anal about haveing my system run as clean as possible). What they are doing is including spyware in some cases, and at the very least malware with these systems, giving no way to uninstall it, and putting no warning labels on the packaging. It's harmful to consumers and it's a piss off to their best clients who are the hardcore gamers.

    2. Re:or change the content... by brownaroo · · Score: 1

      You know alot of Games have legal demos to try for free to get a taste.

    3. Re:or change the content... by FunnyLookinHat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      not to be a troll but... most demos suck, are buggy, are harder to obtain than a cracked version of the game, etc. etc.

    4. Re:or change the content... by roseblood · · Score: 1

      I had been raving about GAL CIV 2 for a while. A friend pirated. Said it did rock. Went and paid for a legitmiate copy. Got patched up and enjoys a wonderful bug free game.

      I like their system, sure you can pirate it and play it, but it will be an older buggy unbalanced and unpatched version. Want to get it good? Then you have to get it the good way.

      --
      There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    5. Re:or change the content... by mythosaz · · Score: 1
      I know not everyone will act in such an honest fashion...
      In such an honest fashion? You're kidding right? You download them all, and then only pay for the "good ones?" Your "honesty" is impressive.
    6. Re:or change the content... by Carnildo · · Score: 1
      In the last year I can only think of one, maybe two, good titles worth purchasing.


      I agree: there are one or two titles that I'm interested in purchasing in any given year. The difference is that I'm looking at games from last year and the year before to decide what to purchase. This has some major advantages: if people are still talking about it after two years, it's probably a pretty good game. Any bugfixes have already been released, so I'm not stuck with an unplayable game. The mod community has had a chance to produce all sorts of interesting mods, extending the game's life. And finally, my computer is powerful enough to play the game at maximum quality.
      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    7. Re:or change the content... by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So I guess you just buy all your music CDs based on the cover artwork, and never actually listen to the songs beforehand (radio, in-store listening stations, friends' CDs, etc.)?

      If you've ever listened to any song on a CD before buying that CD (or iTunes track), then you're a hypocrite.

    8. Re:or change the content... by chromatic · · Score: 0, Troll

      Psst! It's Columbus Day (or Canadian Thanksgiving), not Incoherent Analogy Day. Sorry.

    9. Re:or change the content... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I don't see how the analogy doesn't apply. They're both examples of "try before you buy". The parent poster is apparently advocating buying games without ever playing them first, instead relying on (I'm guessing) reviewer articles and marketing material to decide which games to buy. Who ever buys music without listening to it first? There's been countless testimonials here on Slashdot and elsewhere about how people bought much more music during the Napster days when it was easy to download MP3s and find new music that they liked. Apparently, many people here are claiming the same with pirated games.

    10. Re:or change the content... by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      If you play and finish a game before buying it - why would you buy it? Now this mostly goes for single player games that have a finite length. Multiplayer games aren't as affected by this but they also tend to use online serial checks which means they are better protected against piracy (to some degree).
      Whereas with a music album, you are likely to listen to it many times.
      I'm not completely disagreeing with you - I have done the same thing. I've paid for games I felt were worth it after playing a pirated copy. I generally try to use demos but sometimes publishers are ridiculously stingy. No, I can't tell if I'm going to like the game with a demo that quits in 10 minutes or only offers 10 minutes of content.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    11. Re:or change the content... by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      Any bugfixes have already been released, so I'm not stuck with an unplayable game.

      If only this were true of all games. Battlefield 2 I'm looking at you!

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    12. Re:or change the content... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said "try the game" not "finish the game". It's not a bad idea to see if the game works well on your system, and is able to entertain you first.

      On the other hand you can just buy the game to encourage the developers to continue making similar ones.

    13. Re:or change the content... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your also assuming that they donwload the game and beat it. I know with movies and music I donwload the songs before I buy them. I hate going out and buying a CD and then fiding out that there is only 1 song on the whole CD I even like. Its the same with movies. I download and watch them. If I like them I go out and buy it. Nothing is worse than getting a movie from the store and then 10 mins into the movie taking it out and putting it in the black hole for DVDs that you won't watch until you;ve forgotten how much they suck. I personally don't download games but I can see the temptation in them. I don't know how many games I have at home that just don't seem as good as I thought they would.

    14. Re:or change the content... by chromatic · · Score: 1
      Sorry, I don't see how the analogy doesn't apply. They're both examples of "try before you buy".

      In the case of music, the copyright holder and distributor explicitly provide listening stations and radio singles for you to try before you buy.

      That's not the case when downloading cracked versions of a game.

    15. Re:or change the content... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Wow, for once the record companies are doing something consumer-friendly, at least in comparison to the game companies.

      As you point out, there's absolutely NO way to preview a game before buying it.

  4. Piracy Encouraging More Sales by ludomancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have bought a vast amount more software thanks to trying it out via pirate-distrobution first. Simple as that. Goes the same for music, movies, etc.

    If they want to bitch about lost sales to me, I'll call them on their lying marketting and slanted, paid-off reviews. It's all about publishers wanting control when it comes down to it, and pointing fingers when a shitty game doesn't sell.

    If they could spin it they'd have people buying the most terrible crap out there for $60 a pop (haha), as every magazine review and media outlet hails it as a hallmark of interactivity. No thanks. I'll continue to bittorrent and decide for myself who gets my money.

    1. Re:Piracy Encouraging More Sales by Twixter · · Score: 1

      Wait...what's that? I think...yes I think it is...Angels are signing....
      Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah, Hallelujah........

      --

      -Todd

      Put down the sig, and step away from the computer.

    2. Re:Piracy Encouraging More Sales by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Funny

      If they want to bitch about lost sales to me, I'll call them on their lying marketing and slanted, paid-off reviews.

      Lying marketing? Aren't you repeating yourself here?
      This is like calling someone a "stupid idiot".

      P.S. If I've offended any marketing people here, that was my intention.

    3. Re:Piracy Encouraging More Sales by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen a whole lot of slanted reviews. The last issue of CGW I picked up, for example, had only 2 out of 7 games that scored an 8 out of 10. They seem to be fairly straightfoward about the shortcomings of games, and most were rated as 5 out of 10. Likewise, while Gamespot does a LOT of promotional stuff, A) it caters to their viewers, and B) it doesn't seem to affect their reviews. Often their reviews are actually lower than the player reviews, although it's difficult to say why that is. The three obvious possibilities are that the players believe the games to be better than the reviewers, the ballots are stuffed, or people just don't like to admit that they paid for crap. Probably a mixture of all three.

      To be sure there are reviews I don't agree with, but I can't even recall the last time I saw a game that got great reviews on average, but actually sucked. I wasn't at all impressed by Half Life 2, which got the highest reviews in recent memory, but a lot of people enjoyed it immensely so I think the reviews accurately reflected most people's perceptions of the game.

      At any rate, I mostly judge games for myself, but bad reviews have more of an impact on me than good reviews, and I tend to steer clear of games with a 6 or below rating (or equivelant). I don't expect someone else's opinion of what they like to necessarily match my own, but what they dislike (bugs, poor controls, etc) usually coincides with my own views.

    4. Re:Piracy Encouraging More Sales by walnutmon · · Score: 1

      I don't read CGW anymore, but they may still be decent. PC Gamer is awsome in the review department, they really seem to care more about people playing the games than they do about the people selling the games... It is unfortunate that this doesn't seem to be helping them win the battle against the big online companies that are much more forgiving in their reviews.

      I just want the big review sites to bury games that are buggy or detrimental to your computer. And if the game is a cheap update to the last game, SAY THAT! Sites like gamespot are the media of the gaming industry, and like the media of other things, it seems that the money rolling in from companies is far more important to them than their subscribers... Probably because most of what you see is pretty much free to us. You get what you pay for.

      --
      You take it, I don't want it...
    5. Re:Piracy Encouraging More Sales by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      "Probably because most of what you see is pretty much free to us. You get what you pay for.

      I'm not sure that's purely a function of "teh interweb," since Gamespot in particular sells premium accounts to turn off the ads. Meanwhile print media is *completely* advertiser funded. The subscription fee you pay only covers a meager portion of the costs for, and is only maintained because, IIRC, giving out the publications for free tends to lower their credibility and, in turn, their readership. When the readership declines, the advertising tends to dry up as well.

      There are exceptions -- I couldn't find a subscription to Astronomy magazine for less than $42, a price which certainly compensates them beyond shipping costs, and scientific journals of course are largely subscriber funded -- but in general the credibility that goes along with a subscription fee is worth more than the actual dollars they receive.

    6. Re:Piracy Encouraging More Sales by cptgrudge · · Score: 1

      P.S. If I've offended any marketing people here, that was my intention.

      They might be offended, but as long as they are your Target Demographic and your Reach is high through this Medium, they should be happy for you.

      --
      Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
  5. Futile by headkase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the other side of the coin, the only people who suffer (inconvenience of finding and loading the disc, damage to disc causing repurchase) are people who legitimately bought the software. The pirates (whom we need more of to lower global tempertures btw..) are all running cracked copies - that don't have any of the annoying dimensions - on the first or second day of the software's release (0-day warez anyone?). CD-Keys at least aren't as intrusive as most of the titles with them don't require the media in the drive. I like what Stardock has done with GalCiv2, a cd-key that is activated over the internet or email once per patch and doesn't require the CD in the drive (keeping pirates from playing multiplayer too btw). That's the balance that I'm willing to accept, how about you?

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Futile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      GalCiv2 doesn't have multiplayer

    2. Re:Futile by headkase · · Score: 1

      Oops, my bad.

      --
      Shh.
  6. Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by Zephiria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here's me, wanting to buy a game, Dark crusade.
    I already have a pre-order in, its ship date is the 9th, today.
    Its in most US shops from the 10th onward.
    In the EU we'll be lucky to see it after the 24th/27th.
    I could wait the 2 weeks to get it, or I could just snatch it off of a torrent site or emule or the like and have it very shortly after the pirates upload it.

    This in my mind puts the pirates WAY ahead of the publishers, and more to the point makes the common games buying public, IE me feel more supportive of them.

    And as another user commented, not having to find disks, not having PC destroying crap installed on my machine is a big plus to me.

    1. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I *will* give THQ/Relic credit for two things:

      1. NOT using Starforce. I believe they use Securom, which while annoying, doesn't crap up your computer.
      2. After a few months, at least, they removed the copy protection from Dawn of War and Winter Assault with the 1.5 patch. A comment from one of their team was: "SecuROM is great for that first couple months, but after that, it's just a pain. CD-Keys are absolute, so we still have a form of copy protection."

      From what I understand, their newer game, Company of Heroes, didn't have any Securom on it out of the box, so there's rumor that Dark Crusade won't, either.

    2. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      How about digital distribution like Steam or Direct2Drive?
      I recently bought Civ 4: Warlords off Direct2Drive because it was on sale. I really like not having to put the CD in to play the game. I used to use a miniso with my Civ 4 to play, but now I don't have to bother with mounting that and running the SDkiller app.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    3. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      I remember something recently where a sci-fi show was aired in the UK before america one time, and there were so many lost US viewers from people torrenting the UK version that they have since put a several week delay in the middle of the UK airing of the series, to make the US be ahead of us again. Of course, this loses them UK viewers, but we're the smaller market, why should they care?

      Hello people, do a simultaneous showing (or within a day, to allow for timezones) and you'll get people watching in both countries, and far fewer people downloading it. Why can't this be done? I wouldn't mind so much if we were watching different channels, (eg ABC vs BBC), but ones that broadcast in both countries are still often months out (eg sci-fi).

      Games are the same, what's the difference between the UK and US versions of a game, really? I can understand needing longer for the multi-language european versions, but a lot of games released in the UK are english-only. So, why can't they sell the US english version here in the UK? Ok, so you may need to organise different legal work, trademarks etc, and different distribution contracts and so on, but you could do this at the same time as you do the same thing for america. What's your european office doing all these months?

    4. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by Zephiria · · Score: 1

      You have a good point my friend :)
      Digital distribution is where its at, it is afterall what the pirates use!
      I even brought a game off triton, Prey which went well :)
      And I was able to play with my american friend that night :)

      My only complaint was they charged the full box fee.. but being in Dollars it wasnt to much for me.

    5. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by Zephiria · · Score: 1

      Its a shame you were modded down.

      Yes its wonderfull that relic did that, Means I can leave my CD's or DVD's in the drive while playing.
      And we dont have to worry about losing the disks.

    6. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      Didn't Triton go out of business? That's one of the fears I have with online activation systems. If the company goes under do you just get stuck with an unplayable game? If the company gets liquidated and the intellectual property goes to multiple other companies will they feel any obligation to allow you to activate your purchase?

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    7. Re:Pirates do simultaneous world wide releases by Zephiria · · Score: 1

      O.o last game i got from them was Prey..that was fairly recent. But from what i know when that happens they have arrangements with the publisher to supply a fixed EXE to the purchasers... Still if they have sad to hear..

  7. Oblig by Hahnsoo · · Score: 1

    Whoa! Since when did ninjas become publishers? What if you drop a spoon? Will they go totally Ninja-Burger all over your ass? The pirates have no chance against the ancestral tasty goodness of Ninjas.

    1. Re:Oblig by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but this time the pirates have much bigger boners.

  8. define enough profit by 6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think this comes down to the same self defeating strategy we see all over the business world; it is not enough to make lots of dollars instead you must strive to make EVERY dollar.

    In the effort to make every possible dollar the business world ends up destroying the reasons their clients were willing to pay them in the first place.

  9. Ninjas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought it was Pirates vs. Ninjas?

    1. Re:Ninjas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was Pirates vs. Ninjas?

      Chuck Norris pwn5 j00!

  10. Isn't StarForce dead? by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

    StarForce? I thought StarForce was dead or about to die from being annoying to the user/potentially harmful to the hardware, posting torrents of games which didn't use StarForce on their forums (GalCiv2) and being cracked anyways? I thought Steam was the latest fashionable hard-to-crack protection.

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  11. No deterrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Copy Protection systems just aren't effective at all in stopping piracy. As soon as just ONE person finds a way to circumvent the protection (which usually happens about 24 hours after the game is released, and often BEFORE the game is released), then everyone who wants a free copy of the game can get it. Sure, it still prevents 12-year-old Johnny from installing the game on his friend's computer and essentially giving him a free copy, but I tend to think two young kids weren't about to buy two copies of the same game anyway.

    For those of us who do purchase our software, it's an inconvenience. I don't want to have to insert the disc every time I feel like playing a game. So, I crack my stuff. I take measures to get around the copy protection system of every game I own. It's tedious, sure, but far less so than having to locate a CD from a within a pile of hundreds just because I feel like playing something that I haven't used in a couple of months.

    Games don't need elaborate copy protection systems to ensure sales. If the game is good, people will buy it. I don't believe piracy has a significant impact on sales.

  12. Samurai, not Ninjas by billstewart · · Score: 1
    These guys are samurai, not ninjas. They've got the flashy costumes, the big swords, and do their work in big groups in public. They may have some ninjas planting broken shards of exploding danger on the nets waiting for pirates to pick them up, but that's an entirely different issue, and we've got our own ways of dealing with them.


    Yarrr!

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  13. What I think by brkello · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The typical Slashdot response to one of these articles is that they pirated the game, found they liked it, and then shelled out money for the game. They justify this by being screwed over by some terrible game in the past, having limited gaming funds, or preferring the copy protection free software. That's fine if it gives you a warm, happy feeling, but you are still breaking the law and there are plenty of ways to avoid this. Find a game reviewer that you trust, and select your games based on their opinions. Or if a developer puts out quality games, stick with that developer. But let's be realistic, people are always going to pirate, and they are always going to come up with some dumb justification for it.

    The thing is, if no one pirated games, then the overly restrictive copy protection would not exist. Now they add copy protection. Copy protection would not be so horrible if they just did what they were intended to do: make it difficult for others to copy and distribute their games to others. Unfortunately, we have copy protection that infects our system causing it to slow down the game, the system, and sometimes even make parts of it fail to function. All that copy protection does is cause more people to go down the pirate route.

    Ok, so this next part is important for the game companies: THERE IS NO COPY PROTECTION, NOR WILL THERE EVER BE, THAT CAN STOP PIRACY. They will always be able to crack it or find a way to get the source. They will then distribute it. I am going to say something that won't be popular to Slashdotters now: copy protection is necessary. Because people will always justify their piracy, they need to make it hard enough so a casual user is unable to take their discs and stick it online. They do not need to license some expensive, over-bearing copy protection that install drivers or root kits. Just something cheap that prevent a casual user from doing it. Why do I suggest this? 1) If you put no protection on it, you are guaranteed to sell less units 2) It's going to be pirated anyways, so spending money on licensing expensive copy protection is pointless 3) A simple scheme will make it hard enough so that Joe User will have to go buy it, but unobtrusive so that it will not turn people off from the game.

    But really, not much will change as long as we don't prosecute the pirates. The Internet is still very much the Wild West...anything goes. Until authorities actually go after people pirating software (and I am betting in 10 years, cyber crimes will account for the majority of fines and penalties), people are going to do it. Using what I stated above is the best "in the middle" approach that I can think of.

    --
    Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    1. Re:What I think by d3am0n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't bitch out people who pirate games and buy them. Bitch about people who don't pay. This isn't a judge dredd comic book. Civil disobediance against stupid laws like the DMCA that don't let me put a no-cd crack on the games I own is entirely appropriate and necessary. If everyone simply goes "oh it's the law lets always obey" society would be in a rather sorry state. Publishers are being paid for their work, there is abit of piracy, bringing down the hammer on it will only make it stronger, infecting users systmes with malware for corporate penny pinching is wrong.

    2. Re:What I think by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Buying a small percentage of the games you "pirate" doesn't make you right, and making NO-CD cracks for games isn't civil disobedience -- if it was even CLOSE to civil disobedience, it'd be done in public, with shared source code, and the "crack" would get distributed WITHOUT A COPY OF THE GAME ATTACHED TO IT.

      Oooh, look at all the cool civil disobedience on eMule today...

    3. Re:What I think by d3am0n · · Score: 1

      It is done in public, go check out some of the game copying forums, they don't require registration and are entirely in the public, there are even fully created programs that will automate the process of cracking a game. Just because the legislative branch of the united states has lost its goddamn mind doesn't mean everyone else has.

    4. Re:What I think by CoderBob · · Score: 2

      The thing is, if no one pirated games, then the overly restrictive copy protection would not exist. Now they add copy protection. Copy protection would not be so horrible if they just did what they were intended to do: make it difficult for others to copy and distribute their games to others. Unfortunately, we have copy protection that infects our system causing it to slow down the game, the system, and sometimes even make parts of it fail to function. All that copy protection does is cause more people to go down the pirate route.

      They aren't adding copy protection now- they've just switched from dead-tree copy protection to a more invasive version. Anyone who played the older TSR AD&D games remembers the very fragile copy protection wheel that shipped with games like the original Pools of Radiance, or the "page, paragraph, word" method of some of the Wizardry games that depended on keeping the manual in good condition just to get into the game.

      Part of that switch has been the change in OS technology- injecting DRM into DOS would be a bit more difficult than hiding "phantom" devices in Windows XP, especially as you went further and furher back into the days of yore. I remember booting an old PC via a DOS boot disk, just to take that out and insert the game floppy. Once you remove the physical media containing all of your system files, how on earth do you install DRM?

      I think the problems with determining the chicken v. egg debate regarding pirates and copy-protection are:

      1. The pirates don't advertise how much volume they actually handle, while the publishers publish study after study claiming "losses".
      2. Gone are the days where an incredible game (DOOM, for instance) can be produced by a small team of developers in anything resembling a reasonable amount of time. More people equals greater production costs, greater production costs equals higher prices and more unit sales required to make a profit, creating an incentive to maximize profit by any possible means. This puts statements made by the industry into the "grain of salt" category, but at least it is a moderately "public" motive.
      3. There is an overwhelming motive to claim piracy as a reason for game failing to make a profit, when time and time again the "core" gaming consumer base has shown itself to be fickle and hard to predict when it comes to gaming paradigm shifts. A new game that fails to snag the "core" market initially- being the portion of the market that is most likely to put up with problems and multiple patches- tends to have a higher piracy to purchase ratio than one that is strong enough to encourage purchase. There is no good method of tracking how long those pirated copies stay installed or in use, yet the download rate can be used to claim "Those damn pirates caused our game to flop!"
      4. Poor marketing, design flaws, and a release date that is slightly too late can also all contribute to a game failing to make it big, yet still leave enough of a trace of piracy immediately after release for marketing droids to claim that "massive piracy of the game" contributed to a loss of profit and an inability to continue support. Having worked in the retail side of the gaming industry, I feel safe in saying that a lot of good games that come out and then have patches released shortly after release have a much higher return rate from the non-geek crowd than games that are lower quality but can be played out of the box. Again, we have a situation in which piracy is not necessarily the direct (or even moderately large) loss of profit, but can be made to look as if it was.
      5. People tend to justify their actions so that they feel "good about themselves" when it comes to piracy. This in turn makes the standard "list" of "Why I pirated X and how it's okay" pretty standard, but also means that it is difficult to seperate "real" pirates (those that never/rarely purchase games, but often keep pirated copies) from the ones that honestly do pirate a game to gi
    5. Re:What I think by Astarica · · Score: 1

      Civil disobedience is not doing something you think is wrong because you can get away with it. Civil disobedience is doing something you think is wrong, and get punished for it so people can see the fallacy of the laws. If people are submitting themselves to be fined for whatever outrageous amount the copyright laws demands, that'd be civil disobedience. I'm pretty sure that's not what people are doing, though.

    6. Re:What I think by brkello · · Score: 1

      Uhh, I will bitch about everyone who does it. If you were pirating games that only had obtrusive software, fine. But you aren't...you are just justifying it. Sure, the people who don't buy it are worse (and are the majority) but all you have is stupid justifications. You prefer to pretend you are liberators, protecting society by pirating games. Give me a break. Like I said, when they make it malware, it is bad. When it is reasonable, it's fine. Obviously reading isn't your strong point. Just spouting off Slashdot group-think wins the mod points.

      Why don't you get a team of people to work together extremely hard and release your software with no protection? See how well that does. Your motives are purely selfish. There are other ways of finding quality games without pirating...you just have talked yourself in to believing what you are doing is right. And you surround yourself with people who agree with you. Pathetic. Despite the groupthink on here...I really expect more sanity from the moderation.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    7. Re:What I think by AusIV · · Score: 1
      I agree that some form of copy protection is needed. I don't play many games. On the occasion that I do play a game, it's probably one I bought back in middle school and have decided to play again for a few hours of good entertainment. Most of those games had relatively simple copy protection, you had to have the CD in the drive, or there was a CD Key and it was checked against a server to make sure it wasn't in use. I remember a game I had before I could read that showed me three pictures, then I had to pull out the game's directions, find that sequence of three pictures in a table, then click three other pictures that corresponded with directions in the manual. I've had other games that included a "users guide" which made it so you could not get past a certain point in the game without referring to the manual.

      Those forms of copy protection were fairly effective against casual piracy. There are some steps that could be used to improve upon those methods of copy protection and make them more effective, but it doesn't take device drivers to prevent casual piracy, and device drivers aren't going to prevent a hardcore pirate.

      Another thing I think you'll find on slashdot, is slashdotters tend to complain when companies go after pirates. I would much rather see legitmate litigation against pirates than obscene copy protection methods that devalue software/music/movies.

    8. Re:What I think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Civil disobedience is doing something that you think is _RIGHT_, regardless of the laws. Intentionally getting caught is a publicity stunt (albeit frequently a very good, worthwhile, and productive publicity stunt, e.g. sit-ins).

      As far as computer games go, I haven't used a pirated game or pirated software in many many years now, nor cracks, etc. That said, I empathize completely with those who buy the game media, then download the cracked software. I see that as civil (no-one gets hurt) disobedience (technically violating copyright law).

    9. Re:What I think by snuf23 · · Score: 2

      Until authorities actually go after people pirating software

      They have and they do. The difference is that federal crackdowns on piracy of software have at this point targetted either large distribution points (whether it's CD duplication or FTP hubs) or the crackers themselved. Many groups over the years have had members arrested but someone else always steps up to fill in the gaps.
      The other area where crackdowns occur is in large scale business software piracy.
      Compare this to the RIAA and MPAA actions which have included targetting the individual downloader.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    10. Re:What I think by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

      Actually, crack/keygen groups almost unanimously do NOT distribute games. They would be offended to hear it suggested otherwise.

    11. Re:What I think by splutty · · Score: 1

      > Find a game reviewer that you trust, and select your games based on their opinions.

      MUAHAHAHAH! Hahahahah! *cough* *cough* *gasp* *UUUUURGH*

      (Sorry, you called the wrong number, this is 9-1-.....2!

      --
      Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
    12. Re:What I think by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1

      Civil disobedience is not doing something you think is wrong because you can get away with it. Civil disobedience is doing something you think is wrong, and get punished for it so people can see the fallacy of the laws.

      Civil disobedience isn't downloading dodgy free copies of computer games in a near-anonymous manner.

      If visiting your favourite bittorrent site and downloading the latest game crack resulted in an immediate knock on the door from the police, would you still do it?

      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    13. Re:What I think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are over looking why the the protection has became a lot more insane over the years. What is driving the arms race is:
      1) he effectiveness of the organized warez scene folks at pushing their 'product' - since the silver pressers in .hk and .sg get the scene version before most the people on slashdot do.

      and the bigger issue

      2) the tools Joe User (with or without a six pack) has to rip, copy, and share with the 'guys' is becoming a lot better. In the olden days all you needed was cdrwin, then clonecd, then alcohol 120%.... Sure, brand new games with a new scheme cant be copied (easily) by these programs. By the time the average non warez pup gamer guy actually picks the game off the shelf when they hear about it 3 months after release their favorite copy app could very likely support the scheme on the disc.

      Its a battle thats set up to make everyone lose.

      I still do not understand the 'you must have a cd in the drive' protection crap, its a waste of energy. Personally I wish everything was on a Steam like platform, where I can just log in to refresh/redownload something I bought. I've paid for the starcraft battle chest 3 times due to broken/misplaced/misplaced discs :(

    14. Re:What I think by Pofy · · Score: 1

      >I agree that some form of copy protection is needed. ...... Most of those games had
      >relatively simple copy protection, you had to have the CD in the drive, or there was a
      >CD Key and it was checked against a server to make sure it wasn't in use.

      That is not copy protection though, it is access protection. Quite different. At least from a legal persepctive in many countries. Ture, it is often called copy protection since it makes people less prone to actually copy but from the legal perspective it does matter if you want to work arround it not to actually copy but to just have it more convenient of not having to shuffle arround CDs all the time for example.

    15. Re:What I think by naibas · · Score: 1
      Ok, so this next part is important for the game companies: THERE IS NO COPY PROTECTION, NOR WILL THERE EVER BE, THAT CAN STOP PIRACY.

      Yup, they know that copy protection doesn't STOP piracy; but that's not the point of using copy protection. Copy protection, when properly thought out, should act like a safe: no safe can keep people out forever, but what a safe buys you is time. Check out this article for a good example of copy protection done right: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20011017/dodd_01 .htm

      Of course, the article details a PS2 game, and most of the discussion on this forum has been about PC games. The best solution I've seen on the PC so far is Valve's Steam. No discs at all, instead the games are packaged inside a system that is built from the ground up for digital distribution. Other people have touched on the topic of simply having a CD-key and an online verification, and although that screws over people who can't easily get online, overall I think it's a much more satisfying experience than having a game be rejected because of something stupid like third party software you happen to have installed.

      Personally, I wish that PC games could come on DVD's, like console games, and just work right out of the box, without an installer. Maybe the DVD drives would need a special certification to be game-compatible (to ensure minimum read & seek times, etc). Then use some sort of software, approved by the publisher, to allow copies to be made to the hard drive, maybe with a quick online verification of some sort to keep it all legit. Basically, I'm saying the publishers should innovate, and allow people to do what it is they have to break the DMCA to do now. And while I'm arbitrarily demanding objects of fantasy, I'd like a unicorn.

  14. Additional downloaded content defeats piracy by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The best way to prevent piracy is to put a game out that is incomplete without registering.

    I can see why some publisher who wants just to shove a game out of the door and forget about it might think anti-pirate CDs are a good idea, but any multi-player game, or indeed any game were content is expandable, unlockable or downloadable should not need anti-pirate measures. You need to access the web anyway, so why not check the CD serial key. Then you can reward your genuine customers with additional content, maps, objects etc. and shut out the freeloaders by barring them from the servers and so on. So they get to play a bugged 1.0 for a while. So what? Meanwhile your customers are on 1.5 happily playing the cool new levels you just released.

    Games that force me to insert a CD really piss me off. I end up going to gamecopyworld or similar to acquire the crack. And that's the thing. Pirates can rip the copy protection in seconds and then dump the whole game up for download or provide a crack. So why bother with it anyway? Copy protection licence fees are still money down the drain when the pirates simply rip it out. That money would be better invested in keeping customers happy and "training" them through a positive experience as to why they should buy your game.

    1. Re:Additional downloaded content defeats piracy by Astarica · · Score: 1

      If you train your customers that they're rewarded for downloading a crack instead of buying your game, most people will eventually decide they should just download the game instead of buy it.

      Episodic content can be just as frustrating as any copyright protection scheme. There is plenty of complaints about buying a game and then having to shell out more for additional content (and people can pirate that too). The only place this works well is on MMORPG because the the bulk of the revenue is tied to some kind of credit card number, not the ability to sell boxes. Games like WoW could very well be free for the box (not that Blizzard would like it) and still maintain most of their revenues because there's no easy way to get around the monthly payment.

    2. Re:Additional downloaded content defeats piracy by walnutmon · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I am thinking that the idea is that the publisher doesn't release content for extra money. They release it for free as incentive to actually own the game. But those neat extra levels can be cracked too. So I don't really think it is the best solution.

      --
      You take it, I don't want it...
    3. Re:Additional downloaded content defeats piracy by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      The best way to prevent piracy is to put a game out that is incomplete without registering.

      I can see why some publisher who wants just to shove a game out of the door and forget about it might think anti-pirate CDs are a good idea, but any multi-player game, or indeed any game were content is expandable, unlockable or downloadable should not need anti-pirate measures. You need to access the web anyway, so why not check the CD serial key. Then you can reward your genuine customers with additional content, maps, objects etc. and shut out the freeloaders by barring them from the servers and so on. So they get to play a bugged 1.0 for a while. So what? Meanwhile your customers are on 1.5 happily playing the cool new levels you just released.

      Games that force me to insert a CD really piss me off. I end up going to gamecopyworld or similar to acquire the crack. And that's the thing. Pirates can rip the copy protection in seconds and then dump the whole game up for download or provide a crack. So why bother with it anyway? Copy protection licence fees are still money down the drain when the pirates simply rip it out. That money would be better invested in keeping customers happy and "training" them through a positive experience as to why they should buy your game.


      Better yet, don't have any copy protection at all.

      StarDock's Galactic Civilizations has ZERO copy protection. So little, the StarForce b*stards decided that they will facilitate it's piracy. (Imagine that, a copy protection firm feeling so threatened by the *LACK* of copy protection they feel the need to spread pirated copies around!)

      StarDock's reaction? Piracy happens, always had happened, and always will happen (think about it, piracy was around since before the founding fathers created the US - except it was sheet music and books!). Annoying the legitimate customer leads nowhere. Instead, what StarDock does is provide *new* content and bugfixes to legit customers. You don't need a key to play. All the key gets you is easy access to the extra content and fixes from the online service. But it's completely optional.

      I'm starting to like Steam - it's fairly unobtrusive, I can lose the CD without losing my games, it eliminates the need for copy protection, and works offline, too. Sure you can get hacks for it (or just... use an egress firewall), but if it's not affecting me, I'm not going to go through the extra effort.
    4. Re:Additional downloaded content defeats piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      did you jst call steam unobtrusive? Its crazy insane virus/malware.
      Much more so than starforce even...

      (they try and provide extra content on steam, so you will like to eat your own dogshit, where starforce is just as is)

    5. Re:Additional downloaded content defeats piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      StarDock's Galactic Civilizations has ZERO copy protection.

      They had just the copy protection the parent post mentioned.
  15. Steam by SilverSnaken · · Score: 1

    While steam is a very convenient system for those of us who buy our games, it's by no means hard-to-crack. Half-Life 2 has been available since around release day and Counter-Strike: Source as well. The later has also been possible to use to play on any server out there, including legitimate ones, through all patches since release. So as it stands right now, Steam is far less "secure" then StarForce, but much much nicer to the consumers that buy the products.

    1. Re:Steam by CaseyG · · Score: 1

      When I bought Half Life 2: Episode One, the Steam download servers were chugging like a slashdotted Tandy.

      I pulled down a torrent of the full install, and played through the entire game while Steam sorted itself out.

      Then I played through it again (on Steam) for the commentary dialogue. :)

        -c.

      --
      Casey

      More scratches on the cave wall, thanks be to anonymity.

  16. Publishers should pirate their own games by Astarica · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is clear piracy is strictly beneficial and helps publishers sell more games and make money. A publisher can outpirate a pirate if they wanted to because all a pirate do is remove whatever anti-piracy stuff a publisher put in, which the publisher can do by just not putting it in in the first place. So if a publisher is to pirate their own games, they'll reap all the benefits of piracy, get a great name from the gaming community, and earn a ton of money.

    The reason why this has never been done is because it doesn't work like that. If piracy is always helpful, people would've figured this out by now and pirate their own games. Piracy is almost always strictly harmful to the publisher. The only question is that does your piracy countermeasure costs you even more money than the amount lost to piracy? Clearly if your piracy countermeasure is horrible, it'd turn off legitmate buyers from your game and you'd lose more than you gain. But this case is also hardly universal.

    1. Re:Publishers should pirate their own games by mcvos · · Score: 1

      So if a publisher is to pirate their own games, they'll reap all the benefits of piracy, get a great name from the gaming community, and earn a ton of money.

      The reason why this has never been done is because it doesn't work like that. If piracy is always helpful, people would've figured this out by now and pirate their own games.

      Actually, this is almost exactly what Stardock did with Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2. It has no copy protection and no CD check. It does have an activation code, but yoou can install it on as many PCs as you like. And if you register and lose your PC and your CD, you can download the game again from their site.

      So what do you think? Nobody bothered to pay and copied it from each other? Or or could it be that GC2 was one of the best selling games this year? And from a small publisher at that? GC2 sold way above their expectations, and it sold even more when StarForce, as part of an impromptu protection racket, pointed to a pirated copy of the game.

      Ofcourse what also helps people to buy their games, is that Stardock actually supports them. Register, and you can install lots of patches and extra features. Basically, they offered extra value for paying customers, instead of reduced value like every other publisher does.

  17. The fight is already over. by Werkhaus · · Score: 2, Funny

    When did you last hear about International Talk Like a Publisher Day?

  18. The only clear thing is if you steal, you say it's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    The only clear thing is if you steal, you say it's A GOOD THING. It's people like you that make the penal system so expensive. Don't steal and there wouldn't be a need for DRM. That's the only clear thing. You steal it because you can, and you'd steal anything if you thought you could get away with it. Face it. THAT IS THE TRUTH.

  19. Copy protection is like adverts by Campbch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They supposedly make YOU more money at the consumer's convenience; the trick is, they have begun to realize that you need to make the consumer WANT to use it, rather than force-feed it to them. Steam is one such example, and while it caught flak in the beginning, it has become a very nice addition and tool for cataloguing mods and distributing third-party games. It even allows crazy indy games like defcon! People are skipping adverts with tivos and other P/DVRs, so it is beneficial to make more interesting commercials. Times change, economic models change, etc. it's just a sign of progress.

  20. Nice conformist attitude, litle sheep... by The+Last+Gunslinger · · Score: 1

    Here, let me translate your sentiments from the first paragraph into an example that might illustrate just how frightening your viewpoint really is:


    Lots of children with new crayons like to color all over the pages of their books, not bothering to stay within the rigid boundaries of the outlines. Even lots of grown-up artists follow these impulses. But everyone knows the "right" way to do it is to color only inside the lines and only draw things that really exist in the really real world. Yet these incorrigibles always explain their inability to conform to a nice, inside-the-lines, style of art to "abstract impressions" or their individual "artistic expression" or some other "dumb justification." For shame.

    Heaven knows, there are lots of ways they could express themselves without straying from the rigidly defined rules of solid lines, right?

    And anytime you find yourself a bit confused as to how you're supposed to think or act, don't bother to use your own brain! Why bother, when it's so easy to let someone else do the thinking for you and spoon-feed you nice conformist beliefs and opinions!



    I'm sure I've made my points. Most intelligent people don't care to have others think for them, especially not game publishers whose primary focus involves separating them from their money...and just because an idea is codified into law by our ignorant, Luddite, bought-and-paid-for legislators doesn't make it right. And when you KNOW this to be the case, civil disobedience of these laws is your moral obligation as a responsible citizen.

  21. No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by ewhac · · Score: 4, Insightful
    First off, it was the computer games industry that invented copy protection. Coming up on thirty years, they've been dealing with it longer than any other segment of the "digital content" industries. They have decided, wrongly or otherwise, that copy protection is a necessary evil. They're completely entrenched, they swim in the Kool-Aid, and no amount of bloviating here is going to change their position.

    That said, as much as I detest copy protection, I trust w4r3z k1dd13s even less. Despite being colossal jackasses about it, Blizzard at least has an ethical, commercial, and legal obligation not to fsck up my computer or data. If Blizzard does fsck up my machine, I have legal and social recourse. They have a reputation to protect, and so it is in their interest to deal fairly.

    Not so with hackers who remove copy protection and other product defects (or, perhaps more to the point, claim to remove such defects). The guy I'm downloading the modded copy from may be a trustworthy, noble-minded hacker seeking only to improve the game's flexibility and reliability. Or, he could be an a--hole trying to steal my identity, build his botnet and spray spam all over the place, concealing his malware inside the game. Or, he could simply be incompetent and end up crashing my machine very unpleasantly. Either way, I have no way of knowing. There is no "reputation marketplace" (that I'm aware of) where I can feel comfortable or safe obtaining such material.

    So unless and until the DMCA is demolished, I'm kinda stuck here. The game publishers will not stop incorporating defects into their products, and no one can build a trustworthy reputation for removing such defects.

    Schwab

    P.S: It's probably worth prominently acknowledging that Epic Games have been very accommodating with their Unreal Tournament game series. They start out with disc-in-the-drive protection, but it's soon removed in subsequent official patches. One of the friendliest policies out there.

    1. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by UnrefinedLayman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The warez scene is a complicated network of people and groups whose rewards are not monetary. The chief reward is recognition and reputation. It seems silly, but how much different is "I work for Google," or "I'm in the Army," from "I'm in RELOADED?"

      The primary suppliers of cracks--the big-time groups, like RELOADED--have their reputations on the line with every release they do, and those releases are thoroughly checked by other groups long before they trickle down to you or me. It's a competition between groups that breeds quality; poor quality releases are nuked. There's more information on the topic here.

      In this sense, trusting these sources of cracks is entirely rational. You're more likely to get a rootkit from, say, Sony or Starforce, than you are from a cracked game. Cracked games are heavily peer reviewed for benefits to the community, while companies do their work under cloak for benefits to themselves. That's one of the reasons it's said that pirates are successful: they produce a better quality product.

    2. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Warbringer87 · · Score: 1

      How can I trust that a game's copy protection is not gonig to fuck up my computer? Once that incident occurs, you really can't trust any copy protection scheme completley, in the same way that downloading movies/music/games/programs may have some nasty something. For people with no money, there really is no option, but for those that have the money to buy whatever they are pirating, its a risk they decide to take. Do I want this song enough to possibly get a rootkit from the CD, or am I going to download an MP3 hoping that it isn't a malicious file or mislabeled? The people who sell stuff have a simple way to make buying it less risky, get rid of the shit and makes people worried. Piracy's risks are ingrained into the very nature of the activity, that risk cannot be removed completley. 2 cents.

    3. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by gaesadair · · Score: 1

      Despite being colossal jackasses about it, Blizzard at least has an ethical, commercial, and legal obligation not to fsck up my computer or data. If Blizzard does fsck up my machine, I have legal and social recourse. They have a reputation to protect, and so it is in their interest to deal fairly.

      Well, according to your average EULA, this isn't so clear-cut. I don't believe this part of EULAs have been tested in court yet, either.
      From your average EULA:
      "This product is provided as-is, with no warranty, express or implied (...)"

    4. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Tom · · Score: 1

      If Blizzard does fsck up my machine, I have legal and social recourse.

      You should try reading these EULA things you click on. You don't have legal options if software goes bad. You'd have to prove intent, and prove is the keyword there.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    5. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by 14CharUsername · · Score: 1

      One word rebuttal: Sony.

    6. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Game release groups don't work for nothing. It's an expensive hobby, takes a lot of time and in the end, you'd want a bit more rewards than teenagers chating your group's name. Being at the top of game release charts is a plus, but in reality it's just plain old crime which keeps the groups funded and running. You can never be sure on how the other members of your group make their money.

      Groups delay releases to sell them exclusively to asian bootleg factories. They're working hard, not only because they're under constant peer-review, but also because they don't get paid for non-working stuff.

    7. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This product is provided as-is, with no warranty, express or implied (...)"

      This claus is very common even outside of the gaming industry and it only is applicable to the software and service itself (meaning, that they can't be held accountable for buggy software and server downtime). If Blizzard sells a product that turns your computer into a smoldering pile of rubble during 'normal' use then their EULA doesn't protect them from legal retribution.

    8. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Too bad EULA's aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Companies will ignore their own EULA's - see Windows Refund Day for an example.

    9. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Tom · · Score: 1

      Companies will ignore their own EULA's

      Only when it suits them, and they won't grant you the same freedom.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    10. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Only when it suits them, and they won't grant you the same freedom.

      "Grant" me? I'm about as beholden to demands in a EULA as I am to listen to Pat Robertson's demands of Americans on the 700 Club.

    11. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Tom · · Score: 1

      Who is or isn't beholden to what parts of a contract (or whatever one party claims as such) is resolved in a court of law in case of doubt.

      If you're in the US... well, you guys have gotten thoroughly rid of all the communist ideas, so "equality" and "justice" are all subject the the One and Only Truth(tm) of the $$$.

      In other words: Try enforcing what you said in a court if the other party can send in a platoon of well-paid lawyers.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    12. Re:No-CD Cr4kz: How Can You Trust Them? by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Who is or isn't beholden to what parts of a contract (or whatever one party claims as such) is resolved in a court of law in case of doubt.

      And that's why EULA's are worthless - a party in a contract can't enforce new, previously hidden terms AFTER the sale has already been made. First Sale Doctrine, and all that.

  22. That will work for 45 seconds until... by patio11 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... someone uploads the unlocked additional content to the YoHoHoFTP server. And then you're back at square one again. Software as a service, on the other hand, works pretty well at preventing piracy: how many pirated disks of WoW do you think have ever been made? (Incidentally, folks who are pretty much OK with unrestricted piracy but hate monthly fees need to look at China. China's present is our future, folks: if piracy is inevitable and largely tolerated then you will not be able to own a PC game for love or money because no one will sell them to you. At best you'll be able to lease the right to play with your virtual items for a month or an item at a time.)

    1. Re:That will work for 45 seconds until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YoHoHoFTP server
       
      FTP server? What year is this? 1993?

    2. Re:That will work for 45 seconds until... by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

      I purchased WoW, and played on the official servers for a year or so. But the last two times I have played have been on third party servers, and I downloaded a 'warez' copy of the game that included the first GB worth of patches.

  23. The Games I Buy by walnutmon · · Score: 3

    I am totally for supporting the PC Gaming industry, that means I purchase games made by publishers that I want to support. I pirate games all the time, they are generally games that I want to use as a time kill but that are not impressive enough for me to shell out fifty bucks for.

    I have bought the following games in the last year or so...

    Half-Life 2, Oblivion, Rome Total War, Age of Empires 3, Doom 3...

    Those are games that I want the developers and publishers to continue making money on. I also make a point in trying to pirate anything that EA releases, because I am a Madden fan (I just like football games, sue me) and I am sick of their fucking bullshit when it comes to releasing unfinished "next-gen" shit. I sure would like a good football game to play on my xBox360, unfortunately, EA has fucked everyone who loves the sport and the sport gaming genre.

    So my point was... Support good games... and fuck EA :)

    --
    You take it, I don't want it...
    1. Re:The Games I Buy by cliffski · · Score: 1

      so wheres the incentive for anyone to try and make new good games that you 'use as a timekill'? you dont think the makers of thsoe games deserve a few bucks? You only have 90 years on this earth, if your prepared to spend a few hours of that short time playing someones game, shouldnt they be paid? even if its not half lfie two.
      You could say that you pay for a good steak, a nice meal in a five star restaurant, but when your just hungry, you steal some food from mcdonalds.
      If anything its the makers of those smaller games that 'kill time' that need the cash more than Valve or id do.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  24. old methods work bettter by grapeape · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why not go back to the days of looking up phrases in the manual or code wheels. Yep they are a pain in the neck but not nearly as much as having to have the cd in the drive when you would rather listen to music or having contact phone home and starforce type protections bogging down your system. I would have to think that the old school methods were at least as effective as the new ones and a heck of alot cheaper. Print a manual in a low contrast color scheme to make it hard to copy and integrate the protection into the games storyline. Spending millions on methods that actually result in easier pirating makes no sense. At least with the manual lookup you would have to find a way to copy and print out the entire book, today with the current methods all you have to do is download a crack.

    1. Re:old methods work bettter by Animats · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why not go back to the days of looking up phrases in the manual?

      I still remember an engineering application for the Mac which used that approach. Just before shipping the product, they made some change to the manual which forced repagination of some of the later pages. So when the program asked for "the last word on page 20", it would work fine, but if it asked for "the last word on page 250", it would fail. Grrr. Took me weeks to figure out what was wrong, and even longer before the company finally corrected the problem.

    2. Re:old methods work bettter by 81points · · Score: 1

      All someone would have to do is provide a scanned PDF (or whatever) of the game's manual with the pirated software, copy-protection broken, call me dvd-81points.

    3. Re:old methods work bettter by Pofy · · Score: 1

      Considering many games today doesn't even come with a paper manual, the work is allready done.

    4. Re:old methods work bettter by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      While you would probably not see cracks for games come out before the product was released, anything with this "protection" would have a 0-day crack. It wouldn't take too long to compile a list of possible questions and solutions. Put that into a convenient XML file, create a pretty front end to search it and post to your favorite copy protection removal site.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    5. Re:old methods work bettter by lordmage · · Score: 1

      Your missing the point. Those were so easy to get past.

      Hexedit the answers to all be blank.. so blank compare to enter.. = in.
      When the enter is pressed, it does a comparison and if they compare it runs the good code, change the CMP JZ to a straight JMP.. and your off.

      Wait.. I must be living in the past..

      INT 13 calls to a damaged floppy were interesting!

      --
      I can program myself out of a Hello World Contest!!
  25. You are Blizzard's bitch by MMaestro · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If Blizzard does fsck up my machine, I have legal and social recourse.

    Have you ever read World of Warcraft's EULA? THEY have full legal and social recourse AGAINST YOU if you violate ANY of their rules.

    no one can build a trustworthy reputation for removing such defects.

    Deviance, Fairlight, Hoodlum and Reloaded are all VERY famous/well known inside and outside of PC gaming pirate circles. Razor 1911 is probably the most famous group of them all if only because they were (for a time) completely and utterly shut down after a Department of Justice raid.

    1. Re:You are Blizzard's bitch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And all those groups have is their reputation, there's no money in it for them, some of them even pay the cost of their distribution out of their own pocket, while Blizzard probably only answers to their shareholders.

    2. Re:You are Blizzard's bitch by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      And all those groups have is their reputation, there's no money in it for them, some of them even pay the cost of their distribution out of their own pocket, while Blizzard probably only answers to their shareholders.

      And all those Linux groups have is their reputation, there's no money in it for them, some of them even pay the cost of their distribution out of their own pocket, while Microsoft probably only answers to their shareholders.

  26. Piracy Encouraging More Lies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That pirates use to convince themselves what they are doing isn't immoral and that they are not greedy for wanting to play lots of games at the game companies expense("LOL I wouldn't have paid for it anyways because I got and played it ALL FOR FREE!").

  27. Need a list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So where do I find a list of StarForce games so I can avoid them?

    1. Re:Need a list by raitchison · · Score: 1

      here is one list I found

  28. Trusted Computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TC will pretty much eliminate piracy. Packaged games will no longer come with binaries but rather have to obtained from the publisher's website. The binary is signed and because of TC and similar technologies your computer will only run signed binaries. If you try to crack the binary it becomes invalid and will no longer work. Your computer may even report you if you try to do such a thing.

    The only people who will be able to sidestep these measures are those who do not have TC modeled hardware. However such hardware will probably become rare or very expensive.

  29. Make it worth paying for by Xian97 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oblivion, one of the best selling games of the year, shipped with no protection at all. To listen to the copy protection companies you would think that they would have only been able to sell a handful of copies since anyone could rip and copy it in minutes. Instead, within a month over 1.7 million copies were sold (counting the 360 version as well).

    There is not a major game that isn't cracked within days of release, if not hours. Protections may stop the casual copier, but they are not even slowing down anyone else. All the protection is doing is inconveniencing the consumer who is unable to easily back up their purchase.

    There are always going to be those that won't pay for a product no matter what, but I believe that the majority of people will pay for something that's worth paying for. With the hours I spent playing Oblivion, it was well worth the purchase price, and by not putting invasive DRM on it I am much more inclined to purchase Bethesda software in the future.

  30. More like Antitrust Lawsuit Computing by tepples · · Score: 1
    The binary is signed and because of TC and similar technologies your computer will only run signed binaries.

    Trusted Computing does not require all binaries to be signed. It only verifies that the boot sequence has not been modified. Which "similar technologies" are you talking about that sit on top of Trusted Computing, and how would they pass antitrust muster if one company administers the code signing system in a manner that shuts out hobbyist developers?

    1. Re:More like Antitrust Lawsuit Computing by tepples · · Score: 1

      None of the three links that you gave me suggests that anybody plans to use Trusted Computing to prevent free operating systems from booting on white-box PCs or even national brand PCs.

  31. They forgot this game by tepples · · Score: 1

    The list's editors forgot this game ;-)

  32. Supply and demand, nothing else by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    It's good ol' market forces at work.

    Demand: Game
    Supply, legal trader: Game with Starforce for 60 bucks, and it's legal.
    Supply, pirate: Game without Starforce for 0 bucks, and it's illegal.
    Demand: No starforce 'cause it already ruined one of my DVD drives. Price doesn't really matter, a good game is worth its money. Legality would be nice, but it's behind in priority to "no starforce".

    Decision: Pirated software.
    Reason: Starforce.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  33. YOU Might like not being able to save anywhere... by abandonment · · Score: 1

    Sure, YOU might like not being able to save anywhere, but most games that DO let you save anywhere STILL have checkpoints and autosave points throughout their levels. How is it diminishing YOUR gaming experience by eliminating a MAJOR source of annoyment and frustration from a majority of the gaming population.

    My rant on the topic (caused entirely by Ghost Recon:Advanced Warfighter for PC). Great game, but the save system destroys ANY fun that I might have been having with the game. I PAID MY MONEY, let me play the fucking game already.

    http://www.gekidoslair.com/2006/10/10/heres-someth ing-that-jack-thompson-should-really-fight-about/

  34. Good manuals by PromANJ · · Score: 1

    Aside from what has been mentioned, something that would make me buy a game would be if I got a nice manual. I never read manuals, but I like looking at pictures.

    So I'd like an actual manual in one language only, preferably english. Translations are never good and just take up precious space. Instead I'd like to see gloss paper and a good color print. I'd like to see large clear screenshots and (concept) art tastefully arranged in a spacious layout, absolutely no strange typefaces or tiled backgrounds/borders. A bit like an artbook-lite.

    So what do I get at the moment? Usually a sheet, or a thin little folder in 32 languages telling me how to insert the CD. If there is an actual manual included, it's often black and white, printed on toilet paper and with newspaper resolution. Any explainatiory screenshots are about an inch big, probably has some nasty moiré or bleeding making it a black gritty square. The layout was made by the kind of person who also likes making flash sites and DVD menus. Bleh.

  35. Why I don't play PC games anymore. by thecapn32 · · Score: 1

    Just another reason why I don't usually play PC-based games anymore. I'm tired of all the headaches. This is one of the main ones, obviously, but there are others too.

    1. The keyboard and mouse control scheme. I've never found it intuitive, just overly complicated. Keep in mind that I'm biased, though, since I'm lefthanded, and I've never been able to get used to remapping controls - when is using A and D for left and right ever convenient? Of course, there's the added issue that, many times, you have to take your finger off of the trigger to perform a complicated movement, like a running jump...I've NEVER been comforatble with that, especially in an FPS. I resorted to using a XBOX360 controller to play FEAR, I wasn't getting anywhere without it (and I didn't buy that one, I borrowed it from a friend).

    2. hardware compatability. Computers are constantly upgraded, and it's impossible to stay on the cutting edge of the changes (unless, of course, you work in the industry, have no life, AND have TONS of disposable cash). It seems like every time there's a game out that I want to play, it requires that I get a new video card or processor. I don't have the time or the money to keep up with that. When I buy a console, it's good to go for 3 or 4 years, at least. You're lucky if you get a year out of a computer.

    3. console porting. 9 times out of 10, any really popular game ends up on consoles anyways (and no, I don't include WoW, I'm not into that sort of thing - if I want to have friends, I'll go out and make real ones, thank you). And then, you don't have to worry about all this stuff. Take Half-Life 2, for example. It's been ported, was very successful, and didn't have that annoying Steam crap loaded (that's right, despite the article, I HATE being prompted to register for an online service EVERY TIME I boot up a game - and while it doesn't apply to me, thanks for assuming everyone has a high-speed connection on their gaming setup!). Add that to the fact that few console games are ever legally ported to PC.

    Now, I do make exceptions for strategy games like AoE...although 3 won't run on my PC with any regularity yet...

  36. Ever hear of a pirate stealing software? Not yet. by krell · · Score: 1

    "... part of their arguments that software piracy isn't theft."

    Of course the two are different crimes. All you have to do is consider what words mean, and silly "debaters" who confuse one crime with another will vanish. I have yet to hear of any kind of pirate who has ever been involved with stealing software, though I guess it might have happened in the China Seas in recent years.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
  37. A Pirate Looks At Forty by Sabalon · · Score: 1

    (okay...I'm in a Jimmy Bufffet mood). I don't play many games anymore...my reactions are just not what they used to be. I have a collection of games I've burnt from the net. Probably played 4 of them. Mostly I'll play a bit, decide it sucks and am glad I didn't buy it. A couple I have really liked so I bought them - aka vote with the wallet. I guess in theory, I just hurt the game industry because I played two titles without buying them. But at the same time I bought two titles. Lawyers I guess would look at that as a potential los of 2 sales. Then again, I have remained a happy consumer and will be more likely to buy additional titles I like instead of becoming jaded because 50% of what I bought was crap.

    Personally I find demo's a lot more useful for deciding what games I buy. Ultima Underworld and Diablo both had playable demos of the first levels. Both of those convinced me to buy the game. (Several times in several forms for UW). Diablo convinced me to buy it just running around killing things on the first level. Baldur's Gate convinced me w/ just the demo of the demon walking back and forth spitting fire :) I've always liked Unreal and the UT2004 online playable demo got me hooked on that as well. While the demos may not show how repetitive a game can get, or be like a trailer where you see all the funniest bits up front, it is a much better indicator than press releases, hype, box art, etc...

    1. Re:A Pirate Looks At Forty by StupidKatz · · Score: 1

      The problems with modern demos is that they often have stupid copy-prevention crap included with the demo (supposedly to prevent crackers from using the demo to help crack the full version), often without warning. Since almost ALL those piles of poo install more-or-less silently, I, as an avid gamer who purchases all his games, almost never install demos.

  38. Download, try, buy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After being burned several times by great reviews of games that turned out to be bug-filled pieces of crap with about 2h worth of playable content, i started using the download, try, buy method:
    - I download a pirate copy of the game
    - I install it and play it for a while.
    - If i like it i'll just buy a copy, if not, i unistall the game

    Of course, games that require me to unplug my DVD-burner to go around the protection don't get downloaded or tryed. They also will never get bought.

    As i see it, game publishers (and many game review sites *chough* ign *chough*) are not trustworthy, so i'm not willing to spend 50 euros on on a game i can't evaluate myself. However, i do have ethics and believe that good work must be rewarded - so if i like a game i'll buy it, even if i never do take the installation CD/DVD out of the box.

    Of course, according to the law i'm still a pirate. On the other hand, the game publisher(s) that scammed me and countless others by buying great reviews to convince us to buy the half-finished piece of crap they called a game are just "doing business as usual" - so works the system nowadays ...

  39. Misses the point by amuro98 · · Score: 1

    The article misses the real problems here.

    The first problem is that *legitimate* users - the ones who actually BUY the games - are being inconvienced by these stupid copy protection/DRM schemes. This is tantamount to the publisher calling their customers THIEVES - until they prove otherwise.

    The second problem here is that all of this garbage only solves the smallest segment of the pirate problem - that of people making copies of games for their friends. It does nothing to attack the problem of online cracks/ISOs, nor does it do anything to attack the big profitable pirate presses overseas. You know the ones - they run those little stalls all over places like China and Malaysia where you can get software, DVD movies, games, etc. for about US$5-7/disc.

    In the meantime, the honest user is stuck with an inferior product that may even damage his hardware! That's a heck of a way to say "thank you" to a paying customer. Throw in the fact that most stores won't take back opened PC software, and the of rape of the consumer is complete.

    I'm all for supporting the artists/programmers, but it's getting harder and harder to justify when doing the "right" thing causes so many problems. If things don't lighten up soon, it seems to me that the best suggestion is going to be "don't pirate, but don't buy anything either."

    1. Re:Misses the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      US$5-7/disc...try US$1

  40. Lifecycle of a gaming PC by StupidKatz · · Score: 1

    When I buy a console, it's good to go for 3 or 4 years, at least. You're lucky if you get a year out of a computer.

    While I agree that PC gaming is not as cost-effective as console gaming, you're a bit off with your figures. For the last several years now, I've simply been assembling PCs as a whole unit, taking few, if any, components from the previous generation's PC. I buy brand-name, quality parts, and take extra care assembling everything. All told, I spend about $2,000 every two years on PC hardware. That's a little more expensive than basic cable TV with a few add-ons.

    I can't help with the control scheme, but the keyboard/mouse combination is the most precise and accurate combination of controls bar none, sorry. Add to the fact the extra 80-ish keys on the beyboard, and the utility of a KB overwhelms that of a controller.

    Lastly, it's also plain to see that a nice, powerful PC with lots of storage space is orders of magnitude more useful than a mere gaming console. No, I don't need an ATi X1900XTXTXXTXT card to surf the web, but it won't stop me from doing so, or downloading OSs, encoding video, ripping CDs, editing images, or any other of a huge number of useful tasks. We've not even started on the sheer variety of entertainment titles for the PC, but they are legion: role-playing, FPS/TPS shooters, puzzle/strategy games, real-time strategy, air/land/sea/space simulations, MMOGs (of all the previous flavors, usually)... and more.

    Therefore, consoles are more cost efficient than PCs when used strictly for gaming, yes. In the long run, though, I think most folks might find PC gaming to be more affordable than they might think. (Disclaimer: you'd usually have to assemble the parts yourself to avoid paying $tupid prices at, e.g., Alienware.)

  41. They do! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Several publishers "pirate" as in give-away-for-free their older games. Rockstar gave away GTA 1 and 2. Tribes 2 was given away free to promote Tribes 3. RtCW: Enemy Territory is free (there was no boxed release at all, the whole thing was a freebie from id software), so is the multiplayer client for F.E.A.R. - this is a cutting-edge FPS being given away.

  42. Quit with "you are still breaking the law" crap by unity100 · · Score: 1

    already ...

    I hate when people do that.

    Laws are not abided because they are just laws. They HAVE to be civil, developed and applicable enough for the contemporary times they are being used in. Else, they would have no meaning.

    Let me brief this idea with an example ; in 1789, law was that there were the highborne, the nobles, and they were above the "common" people and held powers over them to the degree of life and death decisions. This was the "law" by then, and law stated that it was god given right of the nobles to be in that position, and not only so, but a tradition and foundation of the "society".

    If people were idiots to abide by this law then at that time, NONE of what we see around now would came to being, and we would maybe still be "subjects" to a local lord.

    So please, noone never do come up and say "its law" - its not the law, it is BIG MONEY's law that they have PAID the congressmen, senators and administration to get instituted to better and further their own profit over and despite the whole society, those copyright/IP laws and practices.

  43. The bottom line by cheese-cube · · Score: 1

    I believe that software publishers, being commercially driven and all, do have the right to implement anti-piracy mechanisms on their producst. However these mechanisms shouldn't have any impact on the product or the system on which it is installed (I'm looking in your direction Starforce). Well thats my $0.02AUD ($0.014868USD).

  44. Lost Sales by RoloDMonkey · · Score: 1

    Let me put it simply. After seeing some videos of Trackmania I was all set to go out and buy it. Then I discovered it had Starforce, and now I won't even risk the free version.

    Second, I own Heroes of Might and Magic I-IV and I play them regularly. I'll admit that I did copy the Heroes V disks so that I could try it before I bought it, but the DRM let me get all the way through the install before informing me it would not play without the original disk in the drive. I uninstalled it, and don't expect me to rush out and buy a copy any time soon.

    These are two real examples where DRM actually decreased sales. Publishers take note.

    --
    Long live the Speaker Bracelet
    Rolo D. Monkey