"humans will do whatever they damn well like... Cops happen to have jails and guns at their disposal, avoid cops"
Which is why you should make every effort to have bigger guns with larger rounds and a faster rate of fire. (preferably one for each member of your family that can operate one) I don't care if you're a cop, an officer of the state, a senator, the president, or the pope. If you're in my home, and refuse to leave when I forcefully ask you to, I reserve the right to blow your fucking head off and put the body on my lawn as a warning.
The founders made a particular point that we live in a nation of laws, not a nation of men. People say "9/11 changed everything!". Did it now? Fine, if you're going to say that and if that is how it is going to be, then we need to stop lying about America. It can no longer be called a democracy standing for freedom, liberty and individuality. If there really is going to be an endless war, and if the president requires all these wartime powers, and one of those is to essentially do whatever he wants then you have a dictator, just a dictator that changes every 4-8 years (for now). It is important that people realize what they are actually saying, and not to have this fantasy in their minds that their rights will return. A war on terrorism is by definition unwinnable, so if you're going to fight it, realize what it is. IT IS AN ENDLESS WAR. If people are going to be willing to give up their rights PERMANENTLY, then if enough of them in the country vote that way, that is their right. (I will be leaving). It is also my right to fight for my beliefs tooth and nail until I see recovering the nation to be impossible and strategically retreating. The fact remains, if you are going to have a president who can do whatever he/she wants for as long as there is war, and if the war is endless by definition, then stop saying you have a president. You, for all practical purposes, have a dictator that is ocassionally changed (until one decides that their leaving office would be "dangerous"). Of the Bush supporters/war on terror supporters I have made this particular point to, most have either renounced support or have become (at the very least) very unnerved and disturbed at what they have been advocating. There is still hope for this nation and even for the people who currently spew propoganda day and night! To all of you out there who feel as I do, don't give up. There is still so much good here, there are still so many good, smart people. We are, however, approaching a point of no return. This is where we have to begin to make a final push or we may never get another chance. This nation must rise up, and reclaim what it has stood for for over 200 years (granted...there were some iffy parts, but the majority was good). So if there are Bush/WOT supporters in your family/area/work/friends, make that pitch to them, ask them if they are ok giving up their rights that are currently "curtailed" permanently. When they say no (and ohhhh god hope that they say no), ask them if the war on terror can ever end. When they say no (and most do) just have them reconcile that, most will get wide eyed. Good Night! And Good Luck!
Or...we could just scrap all that insane tracking garbage, tell those that cry "protect me!! I'm scared!! take my rights they worry me!" to go to hell. If someone tells me that they need me to give up my rights so they won't die from their own inability to protect themselves, or from their own stupidity, I tell them to have a chat with Darwin.
I wish there was an edit button here, but I just thought of this and am adding another post. Consider this. I make a new philosophy. It involves having herbivores as the servants of carnivores. The herbivores are supposed to serve and obey the carnivores, and in return, the carnivores are not supposed to tear the herbivores into ribbons and feast on their entrails. Now, this of course would not work, because it defies the basic nature of the carnivores. If I suggested this philosophy to a serious person, and then got angry when they said they had heard more sensible things from someone on acid, then I would be an irrational nutjob. So yes, I am still quite happy to refer to an unrealistic and broken philosophy, as "Crap"
Granted, I can accept that and agree with you in theory. I was referring to how it has ever actually been practiced that we know of. I would also refer to christianity this way, communism, utopian things in general that discount human nature. So I still stand by what I said, it is crap. Maybe not in its ideal theoretical form, but in any actual application I've been able to see in human history, yes. It Is Crap
I've said for ages that all this confuscian crap (yes crap) is the basic root of authoritarianism in asian cultures. And I'm always branded some sort of bigot. LOOK AT THE MAN'S WRITING. IT'S TRUE
You ask where/how do we go from here to make it right? To fix the current system? Eh...the answer isn't a very clean or elegant one, rather messy in fact. It will in fact require a revolution of sorts. The current system has to fall, people need to take their freedoms and happiness back. This will most probably involve bloodshed. But if it's the blood of those currently in power, I leave it open to debate as to whether that's a bad thing.
Your statement makes an argument for the pointlessness of DHS. Simple fact, there is no such thing as homeland security. All it takes for a terrorist to blow up a mid-large sized building is a bunch of crap he could buy over a small period of time at home depot and other various places. Hell, there are recipes for explosives all over the net, RDX, C4, fuck, even Astrolite. It doesn't take some kind of a "terror network" to do something that would cause a ton of carnage and damage. It takes one individual with maybe $1000 and who is REALLY pissed.
Hmm...disaster prepardness...being able to tell people where to evacuate...didnt DHS already get an absolute ton of money to implement all this crap? What did they do with that money? Ohhhh that's right, they pissed it away and then we saw them utterly fail against something we KNEW was coming (Katrina). And their solution to their shitty management and inability to run anything properly is to...give...them...more...money? Yep, they're a government agency allright. Oh, and of course we won't have a choice as to whether to give them more money or that. That's the beauty of it, they pretty much get the money by fiat. Of course, we could vote out all the louts in congress etc who administer this nightmare, but hell...if you think you can actually change anything in the US Government by votes alone, and without massive amounts of cash to bribe politicians with, then I have a bridge in brooklyn you might be interested in
Once again we have a bunch of clueless fools that may destroy something wonderful we've created. The solution is to remove them from the picture. Vote them out. If they won't let themselves be voted out, kill them. You think I'm kidding, what do YOU call someone who won't leave power? A tyrant
It doesn't really matter. BPI has a bunch of lawyers. That's really all that matters in the end. They have enough legal resources to make it so that its cheaper for the ISPs to just fold than to fight it out. Isn't it sick that legal systems designed to give the little guy a chance are still subject to this kind of crap? Consider the nuisance lawsuit itself, and why they're even legal. The idea of essentially punishing someone you dislike by filing meaningless suits when its barely a scratch on your finances but could cripple theirs. No one wants to fight a goliath. Extortion...just like it always has been. Justice....pshhh...what a joke.
No kidding...which proves the point a lot of us have been saying for a damn long time. This isn't about terror, this isn't about child porn. Hell, the NSA request to ATT came in February of 2001, before 9/11. This is about setting up an authoritarian Judeo-Christian Police State. Finally, finally it's becoming apparent. If information is meant to be hidden, it is all but impossible to stop it from remaining hidden in this day and age. The solution is at our fingertips (but maybe only for a while) and that solution is firearms an ordnance. Take back the country, by force if neccessary.
In answer to your first question. They will be legally compelled. In answer to your second question, probably, it will be illegal, yes. In answer to the question you didn't ask. Yes it IS time for an armed rebellion against these evil assclowns.
The problems go beyong economic to cultural. The problems stem from thousand years old caste systems, people being born into a status and being unable to leave, thereby restricting upward mobility in the most powerful sense. For any nation to really rise to what it can potentially be (The US included) we need to abandon our primitive thought processes (and we all have them, every country on this flying rock) Note: This isn't racist, or culturist, or any thing else -ist. And if you think it is, I no longer care.
Nothing to do with a trademark (which it TM btw, R is restricted). When one refers to a politician it is often customary to put a (D) next to it if they are democrat or (R) if they are Republican. One can theorize (L) for libertarian, (G) for Green...but...thats hoping...
Your position is patently offensive to basic decency. If people are raised in ignorance of their oppression and live with it day in and day out, how do they know of a better option? Most visiting chinese I have talked with adamently deny that their government censors/anything/. Consider also the arms ownership ratio between the people and the government (Note the lack of the word "their" before government). This is akin to seeing a child beaten in the streets by their parents and walking away because it's "not your problem". Also... "they have a moral obligation to overthrow that government, either peacefully via voting in the next election..." Are you a complete goddamn idiot? When an election in Red China is legitimate we will know the end is nigh
um.... have you been READING slashdot? we had that argument eons ago. Not trying to be an asshole here, but isn't that kind of like saying "hmmm...I know the gestapo are here to help us against the jew and the inferior races, but what if they're bad people?!" only saying it in 1975.
I think people are overcomplicating this whole issue. I have an idea. If your kid is stupid enough to get themselves in deep shit on the internet after you've already made an attempt to educate them, then it probably can't be helped. Your stupid kid will find some other way to fuck up. And they're not going to "learn from your mistakes" that doesn't usually happen. Also, really now, does anybody think they'll be able to stop kids from being able to talk about things online? If it isn't one site it will be another. If someone is sufficiently stupid, they will find a way to fuckup.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've never been able to find how to "publically comment" on these bills. Not to mention, I have a strong feeling that the congresscritters probably don't even read the comments. How can we forcibly say to congress that we don't want this passed? (before anybody says writing them, etc, you really think they read the letters?)
"If you stare long enough into the abyss the abyss stares back at you" Nietzsche
It is a particular problem for us hackish/geek types to become disillusioned, miserable, angry and wrathful when we look at the stupidity around us. Especially stupidity and evil being done with our own creations (somewhere in that drone, is a piece of software or hardware a hackish person made). But is the solution to that problem to become what we hate? Just because we could execute a bad idea better than the people doing it, or even because we have more of a logical reason to, doesn't mean we/should/.
As we stare at the evil of the world, the evil of big brother, we have to be so, so, so careful to not let ourselves get into the mindset of "Fine, Dictatorship, but only if it's by me". Didn't Bush say something quite similar?
With the coming police state in this country, and there already being a police state in many other countries, we represent a great hope for free thinking people in the world. We cannot afford to let our anger and wrath turn us into our enemy.
Why am I reminded of when Palpatine was encouraging Luke to kill him aboard the second Death Star? (paraphrasing) P: Do it! Then your transformation to the dark side shall be complete!
Once we start believing that we should be in charge of the "stupid people" then we have lost all ethical standing over the police state that we had.
We have an opportunity to be true heroes in this coming fight. We can choose our sides, or choose not to choose. Believing in people and fighting for free thought, information exchange? Believing that people are stupid and must be controlled by those who know better? (and note how the one that "knows better" is always the speaker), or choose not to choose, and watch it all unfold?
I think by reading this post you all know where I stand.
There are times, when we need to be our brother's keepers.
Slashdot Mirror
"humans will do whatever they damn well like... Cops happen to have jails and guns at their disposal, avoid cops"
Which is why you should make every effort to have bigger guns with larger rounds and a faster rate of fire. (preferably one for each member of your family that can operate one)
I don't care if you're a cop, an officer of the state, a senator, the president, or the pope. If you're in my home, and refuse to leave when I forcefully ask you to, I reserve the right to blow your fucking head off and put the body on my lawn as a warning.
The founders made a particular point that we live in a nation of laws, not a nation of men. People say "9/11 changed everything!".
Did it now? Fine, if you're going to say that and if that is how it is going to be, then we need to stop lying about America.
It can no longer be called a democracy standing for freedom, liberty and individuality. If there really is going to be an endless war, and if the president requires all these wartime powers, and one of those is to essentially do whatever he wants then you have a dictator, just a dictator that changes every 4-8 years (for now). It is important that people realize what they are actually saying, and not to have this fantasy in their minds that their rights will return. A war on terrorism is by definition unwinnable, so if you're going to fight it, realize what it is. IT IS AN ENDLESS WAR. If people are going to be willing to give up their rights PERMANENTLY, then if enough of them in the country vote that way, that is their right. (I will be leaving). It is also my right to fight for my beliefs tooth and nail until I see recovering the nation to be impossible and strategically retreating. The fact remains, if you are going to have a president who can do whatever he/she wants for as long as there is war, and if the war is endless by definition, then stop saying you have a president. You, for all practical purposes, have a dictator that is ocassionally changed (until one decides that their leaving office would be "dangerous"). Of the Bush supporters/war on terror supporters I have made this particular point to, most have either renounced support or have become (at the very least) very unnerved and disturbed at what they have been advocating. There is still hope for this nation and even for the people who currently spew propoganda day and night! To all of you out there who feel as I do, don't give up. There is still so much good here, there are still so many good, smart people. We are, however, approaching a point of no return. This is where we have to begin to make a final push or we may never get another chance. This nation must rise up, and reclaim what it has stood for for over 200 years (granted...there were some iffy parts, but the majority was good). So if there are Bush/WOT supporters in your family/area/work/friends, make that pitch to them, ask them if they are ok giving up their rights that are currently "curtailed" permanently. When they say no (and ohhhh god hope that they say no), ask them if the war on terror can ever end. When they say no (and most do) just have them reconcile that, most will get wide eyed.
Good Night!
And Good Luck!
Or...we could just scrap all that insane tracking garbage, tell those that cry "protect me!! I'm scared!! take my rights they worry me!" to go to hell. If someone tells me that they need me to give up my rights so they won't die from their own inability to protect themselves, or from their own stupidity, I tell them to have a chat with Darwin.
why do the speaches of V from V For Vendetta keep coming to mind?
Does anyone else get the feeling that this may take some sort of rebellion?
I wish there was an edit button here, but I just thought of this and am adding another post.
Consider this.
I make a new philosophy. It involves having herbivores as the servants of carnivores. The herbivores are supposed to serve and obey the carnivores, and in return, the carnivores are not supposed to tear the herbivores into ribbons and feast on their entrails. Now, this of course would not work, because it defies the basic nature of the carnivores. If I suggested this philosophy to a serious person, and then got angry when they said they had heard more sensible things from someone on acid, then I would be an irrational nutjob.
So yes, I am still quite happy to refer to an unrealistic and broken philosophy, as "Crap"
Granted, I can accept that and agree with you in theory. I was referring to how it has ever actually been practiced that we know of. I would also refer to christianity this way, communism, utopian things in general that discount human nature. So I still stand by what I said, it is crap. Maybe not in its ideal theoretical form, but in any actual application I've been able to see in human history, yes. It Is Crap
I've said for ages that all this confuscian crap (yes crap) is the basic root of authoritarianism in asian cultures. And I'm always branded some sort of bigot.
LOOK AT THE MAN'S WRITING. IT'S TRUE
PURGE DATABASE
You ask where/how do we go from here to make it right? To fix the current system?
Eh...the answer isn't a very clean or elegant one, rather messy in fact.
It will in fact require a revolution of sorts. The current system has to fall, people need to take their freedoms and happiness back. This will most probably involve bloodshed. But if it's the blood of those currently in power, I leave it open to debate as to whether that's a bad thing.
Your statement makes an argument for the pointlessness of DHS. Simple fact, there is no such thing as homeland security. All it takes for a terrorist to blow up a mid-large sized building is a bunch of crap he could buy over a small period of time at home depot and other various places. Hell, there are recipes for explosives all over the net, RDX, C4, fuck, even Astrolite. It doesn't take some kind of a "terror network" to do something that would cause a ton of carnage and damage. It takes one individual with maybe $1000 and who is REALLY pissed.
Hmm...disaster prepardness...being able to tell people where to evacuate...didnt DHS already get an absolute ton of money to implement all this crap? What did they do with that money?
Ohhhh that's right, they pissed it away and then we saw them utterly fail against something we KNEW was coming (Katrina).
And their solution to their shitty management and inability to run anything properly is to...give...them...more...money?
Yep, they're a government agency allright. Oh, and of course we won't have a choice as to whether to give them more money or that. That's the beauty of it, they pretty much get the money by fiat. Of course, we could vote out all the louts in congress etc who administer this nightmare, but hell...if you think you can actually change anything in the US Government by votes alone, and without massive amounts of cash to bribe politicians with, then I have a bridge in brooklyn you might be interested in
Once again we have a bunch of clueless fools that may destroy something wonderful we've created.
The solution is to remove them from the picture. Vote them out.
If they won't let themselves be voted out, kill them.
You think I'm kidding, what do YOU call someone who won't leave power?
A tyrant
It doesn't really matter. BPI has a bunch of lawyers. That's really all that matters in the end. They have enough legal resources to make it so that its cheaper for the ISPs to just fold than to fight it out. Isn't it sick that legal systems designed to give the little guy a chance are still subject to this kind of crap? Consider the nuisance lawsuit itself, and why they're even legal. The idea of essentially punishing someone you dislike by filing meaningless suits when its barely a scratch on your finances but could cripple theirs. No one wants to fight a goliath. Extortion...just like it always has been.
Justice....pshhh...what a joke.
No kidding...which proves the point a lot of us have been saying for a damn long time.
This isn't about terror, this isn't about child porn.
Hell, the NSA request to ATT came in February of 2001, before 9/11.
This is about setting up an authoritarian Judeo-Christian Police State. Finally, finally it's becoming apparent.
If information is meant to be hidden, it is all but impossible to stop it from remaining hidden in this day and age.
The solution is at our fingertips (but maybe only for a while) and that solution is firearms an ordnance.
Take back the country, by force if neccessary.
In answer to your first question. They will be legally compelled.
In answer to your second question, probably, it will be illegal, yes.
In answer to the question you didn't ask. Yes it IS time for an armed rebellion against these evil assclowns.
The problems go beyong economic to cultural. The problems stem from thousand years old caste systems, people being born into a status and being unable to leave, thereby restricting upward mobility in the most powerful sense. For any nation to really rise to what it can potentially be (The US included) we need to abandon our primitive thought processes (and we all have them, every country on this flying rock)
Note: This isn't racist, or culturist, or any thing else -ist. And if you think it is, I no longer care.
Nothing to do with a trademark (which it TM btw, R is restricted). When one refers to a politician it is often customary to put a (D) next to it if they are democrat or (R) if they are Republican. One can theorize (L) for libertarian, (G) for Green...but...thats hoping...
so then the problem is not in fact corps, but governments. Ne? At least you can stop giving your $$$ (or more usually $$,$$$) to a corp.
Your position is patently offensive to basic decency. If people are raised in ignorance of their oppression and live with it day in and day out, how do they know of a better option? Most visiting chinese I have talked with adamently deny that their government censors /anything/. Consider also the arms ownership ratio between the people and the government (Note the lack of the word "their" before government). This is akin to seeing a child beaten in the streets by their parents and walking away because it's "not your problem".
Also...
"they have a moral obligation to overthrow that government, either peacefully via voting in the next election..."
Are you a complete goddamn idiot? When an election in Red China is legitimate we will know the end is nigh
Government Grows Tired Of Declaring Wars on Nouns, Decides to Try and Declare War On Gerunds
um....
have you been READING slashdot?
we had that argument eons ago.
Not trying to be an asshole here, but isn't that kind of like saying
"hmmm...I know the gestapo are here to help us against the jew and the inferior races, but what if they're bad people?!"
only saying it in 1975.
I think people are overcomplicating this whole issue.
I have an idea.
If your kid is stupid enough to get themselves in deep shit on the internet after you've already made an attempt to educate them, then it probably can't be helped. Your stupid kid will find some other way to fuck up. And they're not going to "learn from your mistakes" that doesn't usually happen. Also, really now, does anybody think they'll be able to stop kids from being able to talk about things online? If it isn't one site it will be another.
If someone is sufficiently stupid, they will find a way to fuckup.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've never been able to find how to "publically comment" on these bills.
Not to mention, I have a strong feeling that the congresscritters probably don't even read the comments. How can we forcibly say to congress that we don't want this passed? (before anybody says writing them, etc, you really think they read the letters?)
Maybe there could be some kind of bill proposed to
BREAK THE FUCKING MONOPOLIES?!
Seriously, how in the hell did these companies get monopolies granted to them in the first place?
Yes the free market works and kicks ass.
But not when you mix it with slimy politicians giving some groups preferential treatment.
"If you stare long enough into the abyss the abyss stares back at you"
/should/.
Nietzsche
It is a particular problem for us hackish/geek types to become disillusioned, miserable, angry and wrathful when we look at the stupidity around us. Especially stupidity and evil being done with our own creations (somewhere in that drone, is a piece of software or hardware a hackish person made). But is the solution to that problem to become what we hate? Just because we could execute a bad idea better than the people doing it, or even because we have more of a logical reason to, doesn't mean we
As we stare at the evil of the world, the evil of big brother, we have to be so, so, so careful to not let ourselves get into the mindset of
"Fine, Dictatorship, but only if it's by me". Didn't Bush say something quite similar?
With the coming police state in this country, and there already being a police state in many other countries, we represent a great hope for free thinking people in the world. We cannot afford to let our anger and wrath turn us into our enemy.
Why am I reminded of when Palpatine was encouraging Luke to kill him aboard the second Death Star? (paraphrasing)
P: Do it! Then your transformation to the dark side shall be complete!
Once we start believing that we should be in charge of the "stupid people" then we have lost all ethical standing over the police state that we had.
We have an opportunity to be true heroes in this coming fight. We can choose our sides, or choose not to choose.
Believing in people and fighting for free thought, information exchange? Believing that people are stupid and must be controlled by those who know better? (and note how the one that "knows better" is always the speaker), or choose not to choose, and watch it all unfold?
I think by reading this post you all know where I stand.
There are times, when we need to be our brother's keepers.