> First, Opera 7 is the first email reader I've used with that ability. (Out of Evolution, Mozilla Mail, and a couple others.)
Huh? Maybe in your parallel universe that's true, but in this one, the only mail apps I've seen that *don't* support this are pine and AOL. I use clickable links in Mozilla Mail all the time.
Second, I can turn that around and say "what's wrong with just putting the url into the webpage"? The answer is that sometimes (like the example in the root of this thread) it's nice to put a link in with the text different from the URL.
I can get by without it in my mail, thanks.
Third, what about other HTML tags? Bold, italic, size, etc.? They are useful in mail as well. Links are just one example.
No they're not. You don't think somebody hasn't come up with a way to handle these issues within the last... um... *decade* or two?
links -> clickable URLs bold -> *bold* italic ->/italic/ underline -> _underline_ paragraphs -> \n\n quoted text -> > size - learn to use your email client's preferences, dumbass
> It should be even easier for a mail reader to strip HTML tags then it would be to recognize a URL.
You do realise that Outlook takes "G'day Zontar" (12 bytes) and turns it into about 800 bytes, don't you? And it doesn't matter how it gets filtered on my end, the problem is that *I still have to download it and I don't want to*.
Read my lips: Bandwidth. Is. Not. Free. And. I. Do. Not. Want. To. Have. To. Download. Your. Excess. Crap. Like. HTML. Tags. And. Embedded. Images/Scripts/Plugins/Etc. !!!.
In addition, simply getting rid of all HTML email would enhance the Internet's security and privacy quotient by about 75%. No more Web beacons. No more little ActiveX horrors hiding in OBJECT tags. No more scripts trying to remote-load Trojans into invisible IFRAMEs.
> Overweight & Diabetes in Germany Due to overweight, obesity and inactive lifestyles, the number of people with diabetes is set to double from five million to 10 million in Germany in the next 10 years... [T]ype 2 diabetes is linked to obesity and lifestyle, and has traditionally been seen in mainly middle-aged and older adults.
There have been similar concerns voiced by health authorities in the US as well as here in Australia. Saw a news story about it on the ABC a week or two ago, in fact.
> I find it very comforting to know that transactions allow my tables to be updated without any raceconditions or unwanted side effects. Because I model my databases and normalizes them... Many people out there don't know what normalization means...
And you can't normalise MySQL tables? I've converted several "Hey, let's pretend it's just like Excel" horrors done in MS-SQL into *normalised* MySQL DBs, reduced their sizes on disk by anywhere from 50% to 80% and made them run 2-3 times as fast just by applying some basic normalisation techniques.
No RDBMS has a monopoly on bad design. None has a monopoly on good design, either.
MySQL has supported transactions and foreign key constraints for ages, using InnoDB tables. If I'm not mistaken, these will be added to MyISAM tables in MySQL 5.1.
> Simply because it's been posted to other threads does not make it redundant
No, but the fact that those links had been posted to this discussion several times already does. Thus,
-1 Redundant.
> and simply because it bothers you that someone would point out flaws in MySQL does not make it flame bait.
That's not what I said. This is not a case of "You dissed my DB so I hate you forever" crap, okay? Nor am I knocking the MySQL Gotchas, other than that they're formulated in such a way as to make the originator's prejudices readily apparent, and he tries to make it sound like MySQL AB don't tell you about these things, when in fact, you'd know this stuff if you had RTFM. But it's still a good resource if you keep that caveat in mind.
When somebody puts that kind of stuff in a post to make it obvious that they've done it to defeat the lameless filter, and copy/paste it word-for-word from another thread into this one, and offer absolutely nothing new to the conversation in the process... If it looks like a troll, and acts like a troll, it's a troll. Like I said, it's straight out of the Karma Whoring How-To. Therefore,
-1 Troll.
I haven't bothered to check to see whther or not he copied/pasted his own post, but if it originated with someone else, that'd be
-1 Plagiarism
as well.
> It's also not a troll. Everything in that post is TRUE.
Trolling has nothing to do with whether or not something is true. There is such a thing as malicious honesty, and this guy's guilty of it IMNSHO.
> While MySQL AB add functionality, they leave little broken parts all over in MySQL, and those parts need to be fixed. It's a reasonable complaint, and one that keeps me from recommending MySQL for most purposes...
It would be a reasonable complaint if MySQL didn't have an ANSI-compliant mode, which it does.
I don't visit pgSQL threads dumping on postgres, and you'd think some people would be mature enough to return the favour, but I guess not.
My only complaints against PG are:
1. Trying to get it running on Windows is a PITA. (One of the reasons I prefer MySQL is that it is brain-dead easy to install on Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, and about a dozen other platforms, and it runs almost identically on all of them. Given that I work on all three of the OSes I named, that's a very important issue to me.)
2. The documentation is crap. Actually it's worse than crap, but going into that in detail would be off-topic. (Whereas the MySQL documentation is mostly very, very good.)
BTW, I've not been afraid to go against the MySQL AB "party line" -- in print -- when I thought it was wrong or misleading. It's not made them particularly happy with me at times, either, but so it goes. Being dogmatic tends not to do one's readers any favours.
Please mod parent down as a troll -- this is a dupe of a post in the last MySQL story thread (even including the "Don't read this..." section). (And it's redundant to boot, given that we've already had several links to sql-info.de's MySQL Gotchas in this discussion.)
The technique is straight out of the AntiSlash Karma Whoring How-To -- don't let this jerk get away with it.
It's not a matter of "disagreement" -- it's a matter of *misrepresentation*.
I get really tired of (among other things) people saying that MySQL doesn't support transactions when in fact it has done so for several years and it's just that some people are just too lazy to learn about InnoDB tables.
The parent poster even said himself that MySQL isn't suited for every purpose under the sun, so I don't see where you get off talking about "zealotry", either. Given that you mischaracterise what the parent poster said *and* posted AC, I'd say it's more likely a case of *your* (anti-MySQL) zealotry.
What braindead excuse for a moderator modded this as a troll? The dude is spot on (except he failed to mention that MySQL added support for subqueries in 4.0), and I hope somebody with a clue will mod him up.
BTW, I know of at one project implementing stored procedures for MySQL in LUA and PHP. Either of these is a far better choice for a procedural language than Transact-SQL. (IMO arivanov is much too kind here, as I think that T-SQL makes Fortran77 look like a decent language.)
You're wrong on 3 of those 5 counts. Foreign key constraints have been available for ages (with InnoDB tables); subqueries were implemented in 4.0, updates on joins ditto. Stored procs will be implemented in 5.0. Not sure about triggers, but I'd be surprised if they don't come in 5.X once stored procedures are solid.
Every time another story came out about them doing dope or underage girls, or alluding to the rumours that they were Satanists (or whatever), their album sales would spike yet again... and again... and again.
"I am become" is an archaic form, I'm guessing derived from the French "Je suis devenu" which is the same literally, but means: "I became"
There are a few French verbs that conjugate this way in the past tense (the Passe Compose tense to be precise). The rest are closer to our Perfect tense.
I'm just taking a guess on the French thing, but there was a good deal of French influence on English at one point.
Actually, it is (or in the case of English, was) common to all the Germanic languages. (French merely being what the Franks did to Latin, which had no compound verbs of that sort. Spanish picked picked up the same construction courtesy of the Visigoths, and Italian from the Ostrogoths and Lombards.)
Modern German still uses the verb sein (to be) rather than haben (to have) when conjugating the perfect form of verbs of motion or action: Ich bin/war mude gewesen = literally "I am/was tired become" (I have/had become tired).
(The u in "mude" is supposed to have an umlaut, BTW, but antediluvian HTML-3.2/no-Unicode/-code filters it.)
If you've mode points and no sense of humour, by all means, mod me down. But pick an applicable reason, please. Or better yet, save your mod points for the trolls.
That started out well, but the part about Einstein playing the piano sank it for me.
(He played the violin.)
Straying back on topic, you can sign the petition here if you care to. Not that it'll likely do any good, but AOL's treatment of both Netscape The Browser and Netscape The Brand makes me want to throw up, so this made me feel a bit better.
(Guess SCO doesn't quite yet have the market completely cornered on the one-two maximally-evil-AND-maximally-stupid punch, eh?)
> These two factors cause many sites to support IE exclusively. It is very expensive for companies to implement Mozzila compatible versions of their webpages for the minority of internet users who don't use IE.
Because if you code to standards, 90% of the compatibility problems are already solved. Even Microsoft has been telling devs to avoid using document.all and other non-standard crap for a couple of years now.
16 year old girls everywhere are taking off their clothes for free. Guys of all ages watch (and even if there weren't any watching, the girls would be doing it anyway.) That's gotta keep Ashcroft up late at night.
> If you read the last line, they are telling their reps that they can give personal testimonials but cannot do so for the company.
Guess again.
It does not say any such thing, in fact it says exactly the opposite:
This means we do not take callers to download.com or doxdesk.com, nor do we recommend spyware removal programs, nor do we advise callers on the use of spyware removal programs. This includes using phrases "We don't support the removal of spyware, but I use..."
*Wipes coffee spatter from monitor* You have got to be kidding. Can you say, "IE box model hacks"?
Even if the poster's statement were true, it'd still mean that MSIE was still a couple of years behind Mozilla and Opera, both of which offer near-complete support of CSS-2. (Not just a number thing, either -- there's considerable differences between the two.)
So far as Office-generated XML goes... not gonna touch that one, tempting target though it may be.
Slashdot Mirror
Original poster is a well-known troll.
(Except to you, apparently.)
> a Mozilla variant that doesn't make me reach for a book while pages are loading.
Hmmm, I use Mozilla 1.5 on a 400MHz Celeron and it seems pretty snappy to me.
(Hint: Just because you can run NT on a 486 with 32MB RAM doesn't mean you should really be running a 486 with 32MB.)
Moz 1.6 should be out in a week or two, so I can have all my themes broken again, yippeee.
More seriously, I am *very* glad to see Mozilla survive the "not with a bang, but a whimper" demise of Netscape, and doing quite well at it, too.
> Actually, checking on my Win2K laptop, that's not available...
Actually, I'm running Win2K Pro on one desktop and Win2K Server on another, and it's right there under Properties -->> Advanced on both machines.
> First, Opera 7 is the first email reader I've used with that ability. (Out of Evolution, Mozilla Mail, and a couple others.)
/italic/
Huh? Maybe in your parallel universe that's true, but in this one, the only mail apps I've seen that *don't* support this are pine and AOL. I use clickable links in Mozilla Mail all the time.
Second, I can turn that around and say "what's wrong with just putting the url into the webpage"? The answer is that sometimes (like the example in the root of this thread) it's nice to put a link in with the text different from the URL.
I can get by without it in my mail, thanks.
Third, what about other HTML tags? Bold, italic, size, etc.? They are useful in mail as well. Links are just one example.
No they're not. You don't think somebody hasn't come up with a way to handle these issues within the last... um... *decade* or two?
links -> clickable URLs
bold -> *bold*
italic ->
underline -> _underline_
paragraphs -> \n\n
quoted text -> >
size - learn to use your email client's preferences, dumbass
> It should be even easier for a mail reader to strip HTML tags then it would be to recognize a URL.
You do realise that Outlook takes "G'day Zontar" (12 bytes) and turns it into about 800 bytes, don't you? And it doesn't matter how it gets filtered on my end, the problem is that *I still have to download it and I don't want to*.
Read my lips: Bandwidth. Is. Not. Free. And. I. Do. Not. Want. To. Have. To. Download. Your. Excess. Crap. Like. HTML. Tags. And. Embedded. Images/Scripts/Plugins/Etc. !!!.
In addition, simply getting rid of all HTML email would enhance the Internet's security and privacy quotient by about 75%. No more Web beacons. No more little ActiveX horrors hiding in OBJECT tags. No more scripts trying to remote-load Trojans into invisible IFRAMEs.
> Overweight & Diabetes in Germany Due to overweight, obesity and inactive lifestyles, the number of people with diabetes is set to double from five million to 10 million in Germany in the next 10 years... [T]ype 2 diabetes is linked to obesity and lifestyle, and has traditionally been seen in mainly middle-aged and older adults.
There have been similar concerns voiced by health authorities in the US as well as here in Australia. Saw a news story about it on the ABC a week or two ago, in fact.
> I find it very comforting to know that transactions allow my tables to be updated without any raceconditions or unwanted side effects. Because I model my databases and normalizes them... Many people out there don't know what normalization means...
And you can't normalise MySQL tables? I've converted several "Hey, let's pretend it's just like Excel" horrors done in MS-SQL into *normalised* MySQL DBs, reduced their sizes on disk by anywhere from 50% to 80% and made them run 2-3 times as fast just by applying some basic normalisation techniques.
No RDBMS has a monopoly on bad design. None has a monopoly on good design, either.
MySQL has supported transactions and foreign key constraints for ages, using InnoDB tables. If I'm not mistaken, these will be added to MyISAM tables in MySQL 5.1.
> Simply because it's been posted to other threads does not make it redundant
No, but the fact that those links had been posted to this discussion several times already does. Thus,
-1 Redundant.
> and simply because it bothers you that someone would point out flaws in MySQL does not make it flame bait.
That's not what I said. This is not a case of "You dissed my DB so I hate you forever" crap, okay? Nor am I knocking the MySQL Gotchas, other than that they're formulated in such a way as to make the originator's prejudices readily apparent, and he tries to make it sound like MySQL AB don't tell you about these things, when in fact, you'd know this stuff if you had RTFM. But it's still a good resource if you keep that caveat in mind.
When somebody puts that kind of stuff in a post to make it obvious that they've done it to defeat the lameless filter, and copy/paste it word-for-word from another thread into this one, and offer absolutely nothing new to the conversation in the process... If it looks like a troll, and acts like a troll, it's a troll. Like I said, it's straight out of the Karma Whoring How-To. Therefore,
-1 Troll.
I haven't bothered to check to see whther or not he copied/pasted his own post, but if it originated with someone else, that'd be
-1 Plagiarism
as well.
> It's also not a troll. Everything in that post is TRUE.
Trolling has nothing to do with whether or not something is true. There is such a thing as malicious honesty, and this guy's guilty of it IMNSHO.
> While MySQL AB add functionality, they leave little broken parts all over in MySQL, and those parts need to be fixed. It's a reasonable complaint, and one that keeps me from recommending MySQL for most purposes...
It would be a reasonable complaint if MySQL didn't have an ANSI-compliant mode, which it does.
I don't visit pgSQL threads dumping on postgres, and you'd think some people would be mature enough to return the favour, but I guess not.
My only complaints against PG are:
1. Trying to get it running on Windows is a PITA. (One of the reasons I prefer MySQL is that it is brain-dead easy to install on Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, and about a dozen other platforms, and it runs almost identically on all of them. Given that I work on all three of the OSes I named, that's a very important issue to me.)
2. The documentation is crap. Actually it's worse than crap, but going into that in detail would be off-topic. (Whereas the MySQL documentation is mostly very, very good.)
BTW, I've not been afraid to go against the MySQL AB "party line" -- in print -- when I thought it was wrong or misleading. It's not made them particularly happy with me at times, either, but so it goes. Being dogmatic tends not to do one's readers any favours.
Please mod parent down as a troll -- this is a dupe of a post in the last MySQL story thread (even including the "Don't read this..." section). (And it's redundant to boot, given that we've already had several links to sql-info.de's MySQL Gotchas in this discussion.)
The technique is straight out of the AntiSlash Karma Whoring How-To -- don't let this jerk get away with it.
It's not a matter of "disagreement" -- it's a matter of *misrepresentation*.
I get really tired of (among other things) people saying that MySQL doesn't support transactions when in fact it has done so for several years and it's just that some people are just too lazy to learn about InnoDB tables.
The parent poster even said himself that MySQL isn't suited for every purpose under the sun, so I don't see where you get off talking about "zealotry", either. Given that you mischaracterise what the parent poster said *and* posted AC, I'd say it's more likely a case of *your* (anti-MySQL) zealotry.
What braindead excuse for a moderator modded this as a troll? The dude is spot on (except he failed to mention that MySQL added support for subqueries in 4.0), and I hope somebody with a clue will mod him up.
BTW, I know of at one project implementing stored procedures for MySQL in LUA and PHP. Either of these is a far better choice for a procedural language than Transact-SQL. (IMO arivanov is much too kind here, as I think that T-SQL makes Fortran77 look like a decent language.)
You're wrong on 3 of those 5 counts. Foreign key constraints have been available for ages (with InnoDB tables); subqueries were implemented in 4.0, updates on joins ditto. Stored procs will be implemented in 5.0. Not sure about triggers, but I'd be surprised if they don't come in 5.X once stored procedures are solid.
Darl doesn't handle the drugs nearly as well, either.
Why not? It worked for the Rolling Stones.
Every time another story came out about them doing dope or underage girls, or alluding to the rumours that they were Satanists (or whatever), their album sales would spike yet again... and again... and again.
Nice try, pal.
I looked it up after seeing your response, just to make sure, and "Ich bin mude geworden" (I became tired) is indeed correct.
To quote one of my favourite German authors (JW von Goethe),
"Du darfst mir aufs Arsch lecken."
(And yes, I've actually read the play. In the original.)
Oops, that should have been, Ich bin mude worden, it's been years since I really used my German and I now semi-suck at it.
Actually, it is (or in the case of English, was) common to all the Germanic languages. (French merely being what the Franks did to Latin, which had no compound verbs of that sort. Spanish picked picked up the same construction courtesy of the Visigoths, and Italian from the Ostrogoths and Lombards.)
Modern German still uses the verb sein (to be) rather than haben (to have) when conjugating the perfect form of verbs of motion or action: Ich bin/war mude gewesen = literally "I am/was tired become" (I have/had become tired).
(The u in "mude" is supposed to have an umlaut, BTW, but antediluvian HTML-3.2/no-Unicode
How was this offtopic?
If you've mode points and no sense of humour, by all means, mod me down. But pick an applicable reason, please. Or better yet, save your mod points for the trolls.
That started out well, but the part about Einstein playing the piano sank it for me.
(He played the violin.)
Straying back on topic, you can sign the petition here if you care to. Not that it'll likely do any good, but AOL's treatment of both Netscape The Browser and Netscape The Brand makes me want to throw up, so this made me feel a bit better.
(Guess SCO doesn't quite yet have the market completely cornered on the one-two maximally-evil-AND-maximally-stupid punch, eh?)
Nothing new to see here,folks... Move along...
Not to mention Iceland. Its legislature, the Althing, has been meeting since CE 930 -- nearly 1100 years.
> These two factors cause many sites to support IE exclusively. It is very expensive for companies to implement Mozzila compatible versions of their webpages for the minority of internet users who don't use IE.
Because if you code to standards, 90% of the compatibility problems are already solved. Even Microsoft has been telling devs to avoid using document.all and other non-standard crap for a couple of years now.
Cheers, mate -- you've made my day. :D
> If you read the last line, they are telling their reps that they can give personal testimonials but cannot do so for the company.
Guess again.
It does not say any such thing, in fact it says exactly the opposite:
This means we do not take callers to download.com or doxdesk.com, nor do we recommend spyware removal programs, nor do we advise callers on the use of spyware removal programs. This includes using phrases "We don't support the removal of spyware, but I use..."
> Internet Explorer does support CSS1 quite well.
*Wipes coffee spatter from monitor* You have got to be kidding. Can you say, "IE box model hacks"?
Even if the poster's statement were true, it'd still mean that MSIE was still a couple of years behind Mozilla and Opera, both of which offer near-complete support of CSS-2. (Not just a number thing, either -- there's considerable differences between the two.)
So far as Office-generated XML goes... not gonna touch that one, tempting target though it may be.