And with that, most musicians turn away in disgust. Let's recompile the kernel and tune hard drive parameters on the command line!
Actually there is soft realtime, which is usually good enough - as for the "command line", there is no need. Just check the "enable dma" checkbox in yast, and you're good to go
* Have GnomeVFS built into the underlying OS and not as a IO library wrapper/hack
What underlying OS? Solaris? HP-UX? FreeBSD? NetBSD? OpenBSD? Linux?
I can just see it, the gnome devs all drop work on gnome and make a career of visiting various unix vendors: "We have vfs patches for your kernel" Oh Man, that's funny.
Dunno about the other points, I'm a very satisfied kde user...
I distinctly remember people (as in the religious advocates) telling me in no uncertain terms that MySQL was "better" in some nebulous way than Oracle and MSSQL. In 1999. And 2000. And 2001. And 2002. You get my drift, eh?
Well, in some areas, not nebulous by any means, mysql has been superior to a number of big name databases - for instance there's the matter of speed. mysql was designed out of frustration with the sluggishness of existing databases, when tasked with driving web apps. it's also extremely easy to deploy, and the resource requirements are remarkably modest. In a lot of secnarios, that's worth more than some of the extra special wowsers options you can get with oracle.
Well, I have a sort of fondness for SPs and triggers and UDFs and built-in diagramming and transformation services and meaningful metadata support and built-in scheduling and push/pull replication subscription systems and force-commit transaction recoverable stable storage and the like. I'm just weird that way.
Nothing wrong with that - you should use the databases that come with all that cool stuff, if that's what you require - but keep in mind that not everybody has the same requirements as you. Your ilk tends to denigrate as "toys" anything that doesn't meet your rather esoteric (come on and admit it) requirements.
But anyway, these typical "OMFG MYSQL IS TEH BOMBZ" semi-sentient rants have been par for the course for many years. Why should I expect that to change? Sure, your database is the best in the world. Nothing even comes close to it. Happy?
I think you may be confused here - it certainly sounds like it. you go from one extreme "mysql is a toy" to the opposite extreme "mysql is the best in the world", but a more sane assessment puts the truth somewhere between the two extremes you managed to touch on.
BTW what's with the "your database" routine? I didn't invent mysql. It just happens to be one of many tools that I find useful quite often. I also find other tools useful - e.g. berkeley db, apache, bind, java, oracle or firefox. I am certain that for each of the tools I mentioned, there is a crank somewhere out there who will rant about how bad it is.
Well yes.. um, that for the past six years it hasn't while all other 'real' databases had? Maybe?
Maybe you need to quit living in the past - get over it man, mysql in 2005 isn't what it was in 1998.
I like MySQL, and I think 5 will be even better. Just don't give me that 'tude, please. Right now it's a toy database good for running blogs and the like.
Look who's got the 'tude here. does calling mysql a "toy" make you feel like a guru or something? It works for me, and quite well, thank you - and not for "blogs", but some pretty intense production apps - so it's way more than a toy. IMHO ms access is the toy, if you want to put things in perspective.
SPs, triggers, referential integrity, UDFs, replication, row-level locking... you know. Things like that.
For everything else, MySQL is fine.
There you go with that smart ass 'tude again. Just to give you a gentle heads-up, mysql has had row-level locking, referential integrity and replication for awhile now, and at this point, it also had SPs, triggers and views. I guess that pretty much puts your arguments to bed.
Feel free to go study up on the subject, then come back and we can talk some more.
Nothing wrong with PG, just like there's nothing wrong with Oracle, but for a lot of scenarios I run into, mysql fits the bill pretty well. Not every database needs the features of an Oracle or a PG.
Seriously, not corrupting data is the first task of a database. Having a correct design is not a requirement. No matter how bad my design is, the database should never corrupt itself. If it does, it's a bug. End of story.
Well, to be a bit clearer here, I'm not talking about corrupting the actual data in the tables, I'm talking about creating an inconsistent database. There are all sorts of ways to do this with a naive database design, even though the actual contents of the tables, viewed in isolation, are sound.
I've never had any data in a mysql db be corrupted, but then again, I'm basing that on my experience running mysql on linux. I have no idea if there are data corruption problems with mysql on other platforms.
Assuming one can get over MySQL's inherent problems, if you don't need niceties like SPs, UDFs, triggers and the like MySQL is perfect for those small departamental apps that were saddled by badly-designed Access databases.
Actually starting with version 5, mysql has SPs, triggers, UDFs and the like. Any other complaints?
It's good to hear that you're able to work mysql into your "small departmental apps" - being so lightweight and easy to work with, it's a natural. But it's also great for millions-of-hits-a-day sql driven websites (you have heard of slashdot, no?) and I can report that mysql is performing admirably in some demanding, mission critical roles. It's not oracle, but then again, not every database has to be oracle.
Your error is assuming that only a "real" database would choke and die on input error, while only a "toy" database would discard the excess string length and continue on...
While I congratulate you on your search for a test case, and your point could be argued, it's far from a given. You can always set constraints if you're concerned about the correctness of the input data you have prepared.
Parent is comparing non-current versions, and making up false "cons" for mysql, out of thin air...
Mysql 4.1 is the current stable version, and 5.0 is nearing release.
4,1 has excellent relational support, it is damn near impossible to corrupt if db design is correct, and innodb is great. IIRC./ has been running on mysql + innodb for years. It also support clustering "out of the box".
5.0 has views, triggers, stored procedures etc, and it's still amazingly fast.
Note: I base my mysql 4.1 comments on the linux version. I have heard that there is a version of mysql for windoze, but I can't vouch for it, and for all I know, it could be a disaster, but I don't really have anything definitive to say about it. Who knows, maybe original poster is talking about mysql on windoze (shrug)
PostgreSQL probably IS slower, but it's getting faster. Conversely mySQL is horribly feature poor but is getting more feature rich.
"Horribly feature poor"? LOL, nothing like some over the top, bombastic exaggaerations to establish your credentials.
So, how is mysql feature poor? views, triggers, stored procedures, subselects, the whole checklist of items you folks have pointed out, are all there now, and mysql is still incredibly fast, and with it's clustering ability, it's quite useful for a whole lot of production applications - and at the same time, so quick and easy to get started with, that it's also a natural for beginners and their small scale projects.
postgreSQL is far less limited -- and very free. use postgreSQL !
Far less limited? hmm, when I've compared pg and mysql, I've found postgres to be rather badly limited, that is to say, severely hobbled performance-wise, as compared to mysql.
Games- Counterstrike. Actually, I have made my move. I generally run Debian. There's just not a lot of games for it.
I've heard of counterstrike, but since I'm not a windoze guy I haven't played it. While that particular game may be ms only, there are certainly games of that genre for linux. Too bad about your choice of distro - there are more games available for suse linux than I could possibly find time to play.
Programs- I don't use MS word, in fact OpenOffice is installed on my windows partion. I'm talking iTunes for my sisters iPod, Flickr Uploadr, Ares, etc.
itunes? I use gtkpod, works like a charm with my ipod. Can't say for sure about your other program names, but I have a feeling the same functionality can certainly be done on linux.
Family? Maybe so. But how many people enjoy Linux? Not many. Installing programs for the average person is a bitch. Nobody knows what dependencies are, the concept of "root" is alien (Why can't I login to root is the #1 question I get), etc. That, and most programs aren't created for GNU/Linux that my family sees on the 'net and wants to download.
Again, it's too bad your family only has debian as an example of linux. There are several distros which are very newbie-friendly.
People are built to depend on Windows. Microsoft did a great job of it. KDE comes close, but I still hear complaints.
um, "people are built to depend on windoze".. It's kind of funny, and yet kind of sad at the same time, to think that anybody could actually beleive that. I have to say that expee comes close, but it's just not good enough to replace linux yet.Oh and BTW - tell me with a straight face that you haven't heard a million complaints about windoze, LOL!
Linux isn't for everyone.
True - you really need an IQ of 75 or better. But let's keep this in perspective. Linux isn't for everyone, OS X isn't for everyone. FreeBSD isn't for everyone, and windoze isn't for everyone.
You're certainly drank the microsoft coolaid, and are able to spout the ms spiel, But COM is merely microsoft's solution, but beleive it or not, other OSes also have solutions to the the same issues, and have for years.
The ms buzzwords are all replaceable, and won't be missed at all. Those who cannot adapt will become fossilized dinosaurs.
"Games"? I play all sorts of cool games (mainly things like q3a, ut2004, doom3, rtcw, et) and I don't use ms windoze. Lots of people play games without ms windoze, you'd be surprised how many options are available once you grow a pair and decide to make your move.
"Certain programs"? Such as what, for instance? In all likelihood you need e.g. a "word processor" or a "spreadsheet", but the sheeple have been taught to believe that they need "ms word" or "ms excel, or horrible things will happen to you. This is pure hype, with little or no basis in fact.
"Family"? I'm not sure what your point is, but lots of people have families without ms windoze. In fact, many of those families also have computers. the ones with ms windoze have constant worries about virii, adware, spyware, pop-ups, blue screen of death etc etc. The ones that are using mac or linux don't really have those kind of problems.
All in all, your "I need windoze" spiel really doesn't ring true.
Not to disparage redhat, but suse employs a good number of kernel developers as well - Andi Kleen, Andrea Archangelli, Jens Axboe and others.
While redhat was busy working on their own unique 2.4-with-the-backported-features-from-2.6 kernel, suse was actually shipping the first enterprise distro with a 2.6 kernel.
I guess the lesson for linux users in all this is "stay the fuck away from olympus gear and buy something with halfway decent linux support instead"...
There's plenty of devices that work just fine with linux, so there's no sense in wasting any time on vendors who aren't with the program.
Slashdot Mirror
I hate to break this to ya, but cygwin isn't linux...
And with that, most musicians turn away in disgust. Let's recompile the kernel and tune hard drive parameters on the command line!
Actually there is soft realtime, which is usually good enough - as for the "command line", there is no need. Just check the "enable dma" checkbox in yast, and you're good to go
Call me back when they:
* Have GnomeVFS built into the underlying OS and not as a IO library wrapper/hack
What underlying OS? Solaris? HP-UX? FreeBSD? NetBSD? OpenBSD? Linux?
I can just see it, the gnome devs all drop work on gnome and make a career of visiting various unix vendors: "We have vfs patches for your kernel" Oh Man, that's funny.
Dunno about the other points, I'm a very satisfied kde user...
I distinctly remember people (as in the religious advocates) telling me in no uncertain terms that MySQL was "better" in some nebulous way than Oracle and MSSQL. In 1999. And 2000. And 2001. And 2002. You get my drift, eh?
Well, in some areas, not nebulous by any means, mysql has been superior to a number of big name databases - for instance there's the matter of speed. mysql was designed out of frustration with the sluggishness of existing databases, when tasked with driving web apps. it's also extremely easy to deploy, and the resource requirements are remarkably modest. In a lot of secnarios, that's worth more than some of the extra special wowsers options you can get with oracle.
Well, I have a sort of fondness for SPs and triggers and UDFs and built-in diagramming and transformation services and meaningful metadata support and built-in scheduling and push/pull replication subscription systems and force-commit transaction recoverable stable storage and the like. I'm just weird that way.
Nothing wrong with that - you should use the databases that come with all that cool stuff, if that's what you require - but keep in mind that not everybody has the same requirements as you. Your ilk tends to denigrate as "toys" anything that doesn't meet your rather esoteric (come on and admit it) requirements.
But anyway, these typical "OMFG MYSQL IS TEH BOMBZ" semi-sentient rants have been par for the course for many years. Why should I expect that to change? Sure, your database is the best in the world. Nothing even comes close to it. Happy?
I think you may be confused here - it certainly sounds like it. you go from one extreme "mysql is a toy" to the opposite extreme "mysql is the best in the world", but a more sane assessment puts the truth somewhere between the two extremes you managed to touch on.
BTW what's with the "your database" routine? I didn't invent mysql. It just happens to be one of many tools that I find useful quite often. I also find other tools useful - e.g. berkeley db, apache, bind, java, oracle or firefox. I am certain that for each of the tools I mentioned, there is a crank somewhere out there who will rant about how bad it is.
Well yes.. um, that for the past six years it hasn't while all other 'real' databases had? Maybe?
Maybe you need to quit living in the past - get over it man, mysql in 2005 isn't what it was in 1998.
I like MySQL, and I think 5 will be even better. Just don't give me that 'tude, please. Right now it's a toy database good for running blogs and the like.
Look who's got the 'tude here. does calling mysql a "toy" make you feel like a guru or something? It works for me, and quite well, thank you - and not for "blogs", but some pretty intense production apps - so it's way more than a toy. IMHO ms access is the toy, if you want to put things in perspective.
SPs, triggers, referential integrity, UDFs, replication, row-level locking... you know. Things like that.
For everything else, MySQL is fine.
There you go with that smart ass 'tude again. Just to give you a gentle heads-up, mysql has had row-level locking, referential integrity and replication for awhile now, and at this point, it also had SPs, triggers and views. I guess that pretty much puts your arguments to bed.
Feel free to go study up on the subject, then come back and we can talk some more.
Nothing wrong with PG, just like there's nothing wrong with Oracle, but for a lot of scenarios I run into, mysql fits the bill pretty well. Not every database needs the features of an Oracle or a PG.
Seriously, not corrupting data is the first task of a database. Having a correct design is not a requirement. No matter how bad my design is, the database should never corrupt itself. If it does, it's a bug. End of story.
Well, to be a bit clearer here, I'm not talking about corrupting the actual data in the tables, I'm talking about creating an inconsistent database. There are all sorts of ways to do this with a naive database design, even though the actual contents of the tables, viewed in isolation, are sound.
I've never had any data in a mysql db be corrupted, but then again, I'm basing that on my experience running mysql on linux. I have no idea if there are data corruption problems with mysql on other platforms.
Assuming one can get over MySQL's inherent problems, if you don't need niceties like SPs, UDFs, triggers and the like MySQL is perfect for those small departamental apps that were saddled by badly-designed Access databases.
Actually starting with version 5, mysql has SPs, triggers, UDFs and the like. Any other complaints?
It's good to hear that you're able to work mysql into your "small departmental apps" - being so lightweight and easy to work with, it's a natural. But it's also great for millions-of-hits-a-day sql driven websites (you have heard of slashdot, no?) and I can report that mysql is performing admirably in some demanding, mission critical roles. It's not oracle, but then again, not every database has to be oracle.
That is not at all in line with my experience of mysql - just out of curiosity, was this mysql on ms windoze?
um, we're talking about a telnet server...
Your error is assuming that only a "real" database would choke and die on input error, while only a "toy" database would discard the excess string length and continue on...
While I congratulate you on your search for a test case, and your point could be argued, it's far from a given. You can always set constraints if you're concerned about the correctness of the input data you have prepared.
How has openssh helped microsoft?
I don't remember seeing ssh in mswindoze by default. Hell, ms only recently started offering telnet -
Parent is comparing non-current versions, and making up false "cons" for mysql, out of thin air...
./ has been running on mysql + innodb for years. It also support clustering "out of the box".
Mysql 4.1 is the current stable version, and 5.0 is nearing release.
4,1 has excellent relational support, it is damn near impossible to corrupt if db design is correct, and innodb is great. IIRC
5.0 has views, triggers, stored procedures etc, and it's still amazingly fast.
Note: I base my mysql 4.1 comments on the linux version. I have heard that there is a version of mysql for windoze, but I can't vouch for it, and for all I know, it could be a disaster, but I don't really have anything definitive to say about it. Who knows, maybe original poster is talking about mysql on windoze (shrug)
PostgreSQL probably IS slower, but it's getting faster. Conversely mySQL is horribly feature poor but is getting more feature rich.
"Horribly feature poor"? LOL, nothing like some over the top, bombastic exaggaerations to establish your credentials.
So, how is mysql feature poor? views, triggers, stored procedures, subselects, the whole checklist of items you folks have pointed out, are all there now, and mysql is still incredibly fast, and with it's clustering ability, it's quite useful for a whole lot of production applications - and at the same time, so quick and easy to get started with, that it's also a natural for beginners and their small scale projects.
Far less limited? hmm, when I've compared pg and mysql, I've found postgres to be rather badly limited, that is to say, severely hobbled performance-wise, as compared to mysql.
Games- Counterstrike. Actually, I have made my move. I generally run Debian. There's just not a lot of games for it.
I've heard of counterstrike, but since I'm not a windoze guy I haven't played it. While that particular game may be ms only, there are certainly games of that genre for linux. Too bad about your choice of distro - there are more games available for suse linux than I could possibly find time to play.
Programs- I don't use MS word, in fact OpenOffice is installed on my windows partion. I'm talking iTunes for my sisters iPod, Flickr Uploadr, Ares, etc.
itunes? I use gtkpod, works like a charm with my ipod. Can't say for sure about your other program names, but I have a feeling the same functionality can certainly be done on linux.
Family? Maybe so. But how many people enjoy Linux? Not many. Installing programs for the average person is a bitch. Nobody knows what dependencies are, the concept of "root" is alien (Why can't I login to root is the #1 question I get), etc. That, and most programs aren't created for GNU/Linux that my family sees on the 'net and wants to download.
Again, it's too bad your family only has debian as an example of linux. There are several distros which are very newbie-friendly.
People are built to depend on Windows. Microsoft did a great job of it. KDE comes close, but I still hear complaints.
um, "people are built to depend on windoze".. It's kind of funny, and yet kind of sad at the same time, to think that anybody could actually beleive that. I have to say that expee comes close, but it's just not good enough to replace linux yet.Oh and BTW - tell me with a straight face that you haven't heard a million complaints about windoze, LOL!
Linux isn't for everyone.
True - you really need an IQ of 75 or better. But let's keep this in perspective. Linux isn't for everyone, OS X isn't for everyone. FreeBSD isn't for everyone, and windoze isn't for everyone.
You're certainly drank the microsoft coolaid, and are able to spout the ms spiel, But COM is merely microsoft's solution, but beleive it or not, other OSes also have solutions to the the same issues, and have for years.
The ms buzzwords are all replaceable, and won't be missed at all. Those who cannot adapt will become fossilized dinosaurs.
I'll list a few big ones.
Games, of course.
Certain programs.
Family.
"Games"? I play all sorts of cool games (mainly things like q3a, ut2004, doom3, rtcw, et) and I don't use ms windoze. Lots of people play games without ms windoze, you'd be surprised how many options are available once you grow a pair and decide to make your move.
"Certain programs"? Such as what, for instance? In all likelihood you need e.g. a "word processor" or a "spreadsheet", but the sheeple have been taught to believe that they need "ms word" or "ms excel, or horrible things will happen to you. This is pure hype, with little or no basis in fact.
"Family"? I'm not sure what your point is, but lots of people have families without ms windoze. In fact, many of those families also have computers. the ones with ms windoze have constant worries about virii, adware, spyware, pop-ups, blue screen of death etc etc. The ones that are using mac or linux don't really have those kind of problems.
All in all, your "I need windoze" spiel really doesn't ring true.
Not to disparage redhat, but suse employs a good number of kernel developers as well - Andi Kleen, Andrea Archangelli, Jens Axboe and others.
While redhat was busy working on their own unique 2.4-with-the-backported-features-from-2.6 kernel, suse was actually shipping the first enterprise distro with a 2.6 kernel.
I guess the lesson for linux users in all this is "stay the fuck away from olympus gear and buy something with halfway decent linux support instead"...
There's plenty of devices that work just fine with linux, so there's no sense in wasting any time on vendors who aren't with the program.