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Windows User Experiments With Linux for 10 Days
An anonymous reader writes "Clarence Ladson over at Flexbeta decided to kick Windows to the curb for 10 days in an experiment to find out just how hard it would be to 'quit cold turkey' and move entirely to Linux. It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives."
If nothing else, then at least to play a lot of our games.
Now, if only that were likely. :)
You are not the customer.
not one comment >+2 and already /.ed :(
IAAL
people have been doing this for years. Trying linux I meant. It's time to force users at work to dump windows and use linux. At the rate where AJAX in taking off and windows apps are beingreplaced by web apps, so it won't matter which OS you use. Force users for linux! Yeaahhh!
Java Oracle Linux Enthusiast
There is a problem with the database that is preventing the site from working.
Looks like that a database is one of those windows-only thi
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Kunowalls!!! Random sexy wallpapers.
ngs!
Hosting 20G hd, 1Tb bw! ssh $7.95
Flexbeta gets slashdotted within 7.549 seconds after post...
I had no idea Myth TV was so darn good. Does anybody know if theire is a 'plug'n'play' (umm, too many ' there and yeah, I hate that term too) Myth TV distros out there, something that just does Myth TV and nothing else? That would be pretty cool. Back to the real article, I have been using Linux for my main boxes for years now (Since umm, 1995ish) and converted from Windows, erm, 3.1 Hell, it's (Linux) moved on since then. I'd be interested in a similar article about somebody who switched from Windows to OSX (on anything).
And replaced it with a BSD-based operating system, ie. a Unix-like system. It's called "Darwin."
It comes with a kick-ass graphical interface, too. You might have heard of it: OS X.
I can't imagine encountering any need for anything microsoft again. Their office suite is more than replaced by NeoOffice/OpenOffice. Their browser has always been a joke, so I use Opera. And... well, I can't think of anything Microsoft might have that I would wish to use. I simply don't trust them at all for anything involving email or other internet use, I don't play games, and I wouldn't run their server if you paid me. What else is there?
Microsoft: Offering Nothing For A Lot.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
One comment and it's inaccessible already.
I didn't get past the first page yet (slashdotted), but it would appear that this is...stupid. One, from his references of going to school, this is still a student. Two, his mentions of "using windows whether we know it or not" basically come down to one, the ATM which may or may not have embedded Windows. All of his other examples aren't things that most normal people have, let alone people who chose linux over windows (a Windows CE palm? a Windows Media Center connected TV?). I call possible bull.
Tluin natha Linux xxizzuss uriu olt bwael mon'tun.
This technically isn't working at the moment, because the site is well and truly hosed... but PLEASE only try this link instead of hitting the main one, and eventually it will recover:
.nyud.net:8090 to the domain name.
coralized link
Future submitters: PLEASE PLEASE use coralized links! It's easy -- just add
Seeng how the site is down, I figured I could insert my comment about using linux exclusivley.
I use Linux for everything now except for games, which will end soon (hopefully). Every game I play on a regular basis I can run through Cedega. The only time I have to switch to windows is at a LAN party.
Everything else I can get by with Linux.
... but i kicked it in the nuts!
I am portuguese. If you think my written english is bad, try posting in portuguese!
I'll list a few big ones.
Games, of course.
Certain programs.
Family.
Until Linux gets a pervasive implementation of COM, I will not be switching anytime soon. It is used in Windows for just about everything, form OLE to shell extensions, clipboard management, component re-use, app automation etc. and for good reason. It is a great technology, and something that is completely missing under Unix/Linux - and I can't see it coming anytime soon due ot it being a standard, and a long standing one at that. Something an existing OS can't just pick up at a later date.
I.O.U One Sig.
Things!
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Kunowalls!!! Random sexy wallpapers.
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"It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives."
Maybe this is true at first, however after several months of using Linux I began to see the FOSS alternatives to using windows and now I haven't had windows installed for about 9 months.
It seems like switching to Linux should be more gradual. Linux has a steep learning curve. If you try to jump in all at once your more likely to get a bad impression when you can't figure out how to play a dvd, or even 'mount' the cdrom drive.
but I can't get past page one. Shoot! If the other six pages are this good, I'll . . .not bother.
You are not the customer.
Linux strikes me as more the OS of choise for tech types (engineers, IT pros, etc), as its much more robust at those type of applications than Windows.
I think it all depends on the environment.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
But who cares? If you have even the slightest interest in living without Windows for ten days then you've already done it. If you can't figure out how to do it without accidentally using Windows somehow then you have no business reading Slashdot.
That pretty much sums it up.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
I put my aged PII 400MHz home computer over to Linux a few years ago (well 2002 actually) and since then my Wife has suffered not a single case of having to reboot using the plug-socket, not a single crash and not a single failed application.
Until she got her iPod... so now we are buying a new PC, just so she doesn't have to use my work machine for iTunes.
My mother had an horrific attack of the virii which has meant I had to do a complete re-install of windows, and I've lobbed SUSE onto the other partition to help the recovery next time. My mother has elected to use SUSE to access the internet, and just go into Windows when she has to use the software from work.
My wife does email, internet, work processing and accounts, pretty much the same as my mother. BOTH have faired perfectly well with Linux (SUSE), with less hassle to me than on Windows.
And here is the kicker... installing Windows on a SATA drive was a pain in the arse, my mothers machine having no floppy drive and Windows not being able to detect the SATA (even in an SP2 install) SUSE 9.3.... had no issues and went straight on.
I couldn't WORK on Linux yet... but for the majority of INTERNET users who just want EMAIL, a browser and OpenOffice.... it really doesn't matter.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
I also started my own 10 days experiement, but kept it going until today. It as been more then one year now.
Because i no longer play games, they are not the issue anymore, But when they used to be, wine did the trick very well.
I keep a windows xp at home for usabilitie and compatibilitie testing porpose only.
I am portuguese. If you think my written english is bad, try posting in portuguese!
--It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives." I know for a fact. I cannot live without that dose of BSOD.
not everyone does a gentoo stage 1 install ;P
I tried windows for 10 days and boy, did I discover how much day-to-day operations on windows made me love *nix even more...
But a little more serious, 10 days? I mean like, what do you expect? Give it 10 months and you don't want anything else, but 10 days? What are these windows-users, shallow?
(They spent years and years trying to control this fuzzy-logic called windows and give something else 10 days... tsssss...)
tes
Is that the sound turkeys make? ahh who cares. Ive never understood the phrase "cold turkey", as far as im concerned the only good turkey is a cold turkey anyway.
Is windows an addiction you have to quit? hmmm... Thats like telling an Americ...sorry, obese person to take up crack becuase Ronald McD's is bad for health. I.E. Windows:bad, Linux:vomit, MacOS:... Brgle brgle!
...not using Windows is not an option. The reasons are numerous and well-documented and only the idiot zealots try to deny them.
The more stable and sane try to at least address the shortcomings and work on it and to them goes out my thanks and my encouragement to "get it" no matter what it takes as to why Windows continues to and probably will indefinitely kick Linux' ass on the desktop.
Okay, so maybe the various app writers are at the mercy of those who write the frameworks, those who press ahead with kernel designs, etc. But they really need to band together and say to those maintaining the core guts of Linux that enough is enough, we need a stable solid framework on par with what Microsoft has with Windows.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if Gnucash was a bit more friendly with exported MS Money files, if there were more friendly install scripts for webcam drivers (again, SPCA5xx farking rocks for those who don't blanche at typing "make"), if nVidia made their drivers a little friendlier, if Real bothered tightening up their player, and for that matter if Yahoo would finish porting all the nice doo-dads of their Windows messenger client to their Linux one.
Of course I could use some more and better graphics apps and format compatibility, and a lot of other things...
But I'm a techie sort so I can deal with whatever. The average user can't and since techies estranged from the average end-user's needs tend to be the ones building distros with the attitude that "we know what is best for you" rather than listening, I don't expect that to change.
What I'd really like to see out of the Linux world is a collection of several of the top apps per area together on a live DVD using Debian, one using FC, another with SuSE, etc. so that the users can get a better feel and then pick and choose their mix to get the best fit for them. Call it Distros On Demand if you will, but we need something like that if we're going to put more choice in the hands of the end-users to make them more comfortable with Linux.
Never mind hiding Vi and Emacs from them so their heads don't explode when they try to adapt from Notepad.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
I cannot truly reply to the article considering it was /.'ed before any reply was posted, but I have been part of a trial of Linux workstations at work. Our sysadmins are Windows folks, but with a good original image, I can't see a Linux transition being that hard.
.lwp or .123 format, but it has not been a big issue.
I haven't had many problems at all. Our main issue was that we still use a native OS/2 application, and because we have ditched OS/2 we need a remote desktop connection to a Windows box to then launch Virtual PC and our OS/2 app. Not the easiest and lightest of setups, but it works.
We need Wine for a few apps too, but they run fine under it. Sometimes I'll get Lotus Word Pro or 1-2-3 documents that I cannot return in their original format as Open Office won't let me save in
(If after all those hints you cannot guess what company I work in, you really need to think harder...)
Anyhow, maybe I wasn't sure after home use how easily Linux could be considered in an office environment, but our main problem really is some intranet pages being designed for IE only.
I eventually got the first page of that article to load, which leads me to think the author may be criticising how difficult it can be to get everything working - but if you have built a solid image, there is no reason why Linux should be any more difficult to use than Windows.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:rqaS83p3KOIJ:ww w.flexbeta.net/main/articles.php%3Faction%3Dshow%2 6id%3D106+&hl=en&client=firefox-a
*Most* people I know with OSX machines also have to use MS Word, Excel or Entourage on a daily basis. Not *all*, but most (more than 50% of the Mac users I know) fit into this category. They remind me of Mrs. Avery on the PJs, talkin about she "don't need nothing from nobody, as long as she got her welfare, her medicare, her disability, her social security and her food stamps!"
:)
Maybe it's not an apt comparison, but I still think of that scene (and wonder where the heck the PJs went! That was a great show!)
creation science book
Actually I can't think of a single use of Windows inadvertently or otherwise that makes the slightest difference in my day-to-day life. The vast majority of those on the planet have never used Windows (or any computer for that matter). A working lavatory would be a leg up in most cases. Somehow I doubt a PC is top of their to-do list.
One thing that could make a great differnce to a person's daily life, though, is posting an article about their attempts to use Linux. Forget about how much you really know, or don't know. A thumbs up to Linux has propaganda sites crawling all over you. A thumbs down and ten thousand geeks will be queuing up to excoriate you. Perhaps Hollywood and a pay rise beckons.
I mean, is this guy for real? If you want to use Linux, then use it properly and fully. Amazing, really, that one guy anxiously dipping a toe in the water and then hastily running back to the apron strings should merit a slashdot write-up. On second thoughts perhaps he's going for an award for outstanding bravery.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
whatever shall we do without a second-rate office suite?
If you just decide not to use windows again, like i did back in 2000, and just not look behind, you can do it. I don't require windows for anything, I try not to use proprietary software, and when extremly needed, there is wine ...
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
http://mirrordot.org/stories/97b43c53d0c03bb5f2a00 bf58400a484/index.html
......
I know what you're saying, and I agree. The idea of spending 10 days in someone else's shoes certainly isn't new but do you really think you will ever see Mr. Spurlock record a show depicting a similar situation or setup? You'd fall asleep during the opening credits. Now, it might not be a life or death adventure but at least it's one that I've never heard of or read before and if I could just offer a small taste of how easy or hard the switch would be then so be it. That single reason is why I decided to put my body, mind, time and even lifestyle into harms way by going 100% cold turkey of all Microsoft software for a whole 10 days. "10 days? Well that hardly sounds hard enough!" Sure, it doesn't sound so hard but take in account that over 500 million of us use a Windows OS at least once, everyday of the week and you too will see that going cold turkey from XP to KDE might be harder or more limiting than first thought. Not surprisingly, millions of people and corporations are making the switch to Linux or another variant of Unix to save costs or maybe cut their chances of having to resort to piracy to continue to operate but from what we hear daily Microsoft and the news is that Linux doesn't seem to be any less expensive than the Windows platform and for some could limit the very things that they used to take for granted. Although I am a tried and true believer of the Windows platform, I do own a Mac Powerbook and have on occasion used Linux when setting up servers or for 3D modeling but never have I thought about using it as my primary desktop; in fact I even told myself that I would have to go insane before I shut the "windows" and let tux in the door How much of our lives truly run on Windows? Well, if you ever leave your chair (sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if some of you shrugged just now) and actually go outside then I'm sure that you've used Windows at some point and time during your outing. For emphasis, let me explain to you my full day's schedule on average: I wake up, take a shower and then groom myself. I then head downstairs and turn my television on which just so happens to have a Windows Media Center PC hooked up to it. I then head over to the kitchen which happens to have a Windows powered laptop which I use to somberly browse the net while I eat Captain Crunch out of the box and throw milk down my throat. I run off and get dressed but not before I synch my Windows CE powered pocket PC and then I drive off to school. On my way I forget I have no money on me and so I must stop by the bank to withdraw some and guess what? The ATM machine happens to run embedded Windows! I could go on and on but I think that I would start to freak some of you out with my weird pre-dinner rituals. Anyways, my point was merely to show that many of us use Windows whether or not we even know it. Now before I go off and potentially alter the very way I live my life, I thought I should do some research as to what the most popular Linux distribution is and exactly what I'm getting into. I looked at the most used and the most supported of distributions and came to the conclusion that I would go with the Mandriva (formally Mandrake) distro. Now, it was a really close call because there are literally thousands of Linux distributions and over a dozen that are primarily used but I chose Mandriva because it was possibly the most likely distro that newcomers into the Linux realm would choose. It's got 20+ languages in support, supports every processor imaginable, graphical installation and also has buttons that look edible. All of these things are possible "wow" factors that would grab a skeptic in, especially the purdy buttons. I'm set and I have selected a Linux distro so now I have to lock all of my Windows powered goods into my closet and the next paragraph you read of this will have been written from a Linux box. Be sure to join me and try to keep up as I venture into the land of taboo and exoticism that is open-source!
"-1 Flamebait": Because it's true. I need to find a new place to slum it online.
I don't respond to AC's.
> It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives.
That may be true for some people's lifestyle, but not for everyone's. I don't use Windows in my daily life. I don't even have easy access to a Windows system. My only interaction with Windows is every few weeks when I'm in a lab half-way across town for a meeting, and I decide to power up a machine to read Slashdot while waiting for everyone else to show up, or stay after the meeting to play a windows-only game (which I get by without at home, without any problems).
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
...how so many people here seem to be under the impression that Microsoft only makes Windows, IE, and Office.
*ducks for -10 troll rating*
"...if people respected copyright more, like you guys do with the GPL so religiously, [the DMCA] wouldn't be necessary."
Last summer I got serious about using linux. Before that, I tried various versions of redhat and mandrake and it was alright. But I always felt once I started to go beyond the beaten path, it was a pain in the ass. By that I pretty much mean dealing with their RPMs when installing a package outside their package manager.
So I bit the bullet and spent several days installing and setting up Gentoo. Every step of the way was a learning experience. My reason for switching to linux is because I was bored with windows and I wanted to force myself to learn something new. So now it's approaching the end of another summer. I'm sitting in front of two computers running Gentoo.
However, both have windows XP on them. I have crossover office on each computer and the apps that are supported run fine. I'm a student and usually I can get by with openoffice, but sometimes I need office. I just got an ipod photo and I've been trying to get it to work seamlessly between windows and gentoo. It's been a struggle with iTunes, gtkpod and ipodslave for KDE, but I'm working on it.
I tried the OSX86 last weekend and I was impressed. I tried windows vista beta and I was very unimpressed. There is never going to be a magic bullet OS. Each will have it's uses. I've learned that it is mostly dependent on the applications for it. If the vendors made perfect linux versions of every program I needed, it would be a lot better. It takes time to figure out which OSS programs are just as good as the windows counterparts and which ones are shit. 10 days with any operating system isn't going to mean much.
And I have not had a chance yet to read the article bc it's down at the moment.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...despite all the freedom and independence that linux affords all you linux users out there, you don't need to be so snobby to the rest of us. It isn't that we're dumb or unimaginative...its just that we have other things to be smart and imaginative about and we don't want to be distracted by having to deal with Linux. If you like it, fine. That's your prerogative. But you don't have any place being indignant and snobby toward the rest of us. What we sacrifice in control and nuts and bolts access to our OS's, we gain in not having to think about our computers as anything more than a task-tailored tool for the other shit in our lives that's more important to us.
Google cache of the "printable" version.
clicky.
The ATM machine happens to run embedded Windows!
This guy isn't capable of having an opinion on anything technical, much less an OS. It seems clear also that the damage done by 'daily' exposure to windows is in full swing, at the least.
Page 1
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Unfortunately, that's all google cached, but it's better than nothing.
Tluin natha Linux xxizzuss uriu olt bwael mon'tun.
I have already quit and switched to Fedora Core 4. I hope he succeeds.
1-Crawl 2-Cnfg 3-ATF 4-Exit ?
I meant to write, 'the responsibility that comes with LINUX.' I need grammar school more than I do either OS, apparently.
It's wonderful that Open Office, Firefox, et cetera are all shaping up so well, but the next step will be creating all the specialized niche apps that are needed for various industries.
For example, I work for a major publisher, and we couldn't switch to open source software if we tried, because we need, among many other apps: full-featured page layout software, a solid preflighting app, and an image-editing program that can handle CMYK color (the GIMP can't do this yet, as far as I know).
I guess some of these apps could be run with Wine, but it would be great to see native Linux equivalents...
= GENERAL User Interface. I wonder how many more things he managed to learn in those 10 days.
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
The way i understood it the biggest problem was Windows and all the things artificially tied to it. Linux in itself wasnt that much of a problem. Everything from drivers to games is tied to Windows.
Wine clearly shows that if just a little bit of effort was put in it would be possible to make a intermidiate interface to apps (not Java, mind you!) that would make it possible to write truly platform independant AND fast applications, in 3d.
Whats stopping this is Microsft. They dont want OS independant applications, not for their life.
A possible way of counter this would be a kickas IDE and middleware that would make it easy to make OS independant apps. A free one that is. This platform would make it much more easy for third party app providers to make and sell apps for linux and give a stable API to aim at. Linux is moving all to fast right now and its better to put up a middle API than to slow linux down.
HTTP/1.1 400
He claims "It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives."
And then goes on to put things in his own micro-view.
That hand-held that runs CE was engineered on a Unix system...shipped to the US on a frieghter running another flavor of Unix. The packaging and user manual were designed on a Mac. Same goes for that laptop in the kitchen.
That ATM he mistakenly refers to ties into a network control center that runs on solaris.
I'd go on, but I have to get to work, and my pda phone that runs on Linux is telling me I'll miss the bus if I don't get moving.
Try this google cache link .. full article ..
w ww.flexbeta.net/main/printarticle.php%3Fid%3D106+& hl=en&lr=lang_en
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:1CvlEjwElaUJ:
You may like to know the M in ATM stands for machine.
Brought to you by the department of redundancy department.
I haven't needed windows for many years now, however my girlfriend does. I run KDE with a seperate user called "windows" which runs qemu with WinXP full screen on login. She chooses to use her standard KDE login most of the time, but some of her uni cds are windows only.
.NET (which I never bothered to do before because of the effort of buying another machine or partitioning etc etc).
:)
QEMU is so good, it not only does her needs, but I've started playing around with
The speed is excellent, it works with the CD, SAMBA to the host machine (home drives) and sound...it's got everything we want...plus, running full screen on a seperate login it's just like if you partitioned the drive except that you can switch in real time using KDE 'switch user' feature and share data between the two by making your home drive a samba network drive in windows.
Linux and Windows finally operating seemlessly together, thank you QEMU
Google has cached the entire printed article, not just the first page. See:
1 06
http://www.flexbeta.net/main/printarticle.php?id=
Can somebody explain what windows stands for? I don't see why people are discussing some computer related stuff with some wooden stuff.
The author "works in robotical and anatomical engineering". Did anyone catch this? AFAIK, most such laboratories use Linux/Unix as their development environments. He admits to this too. He evidently knows (or should know) a lot more about Linux than he is apparently willing to admit. So this article can't be written from the perspective of a Linux newbie. So don't get the idea that this reflects experiences of a n average Windows user switching to Linux for the first time.
Over the last few years I've read some comments on slashdot about schools teaching linux, and I've just now had an idea that I think might be practical.
I remember in elementary school, once a week or so my class would be herded into the computer lab to learn how to use a word processor and spreadsheet app on the school's Apple IIe computers. I spent a lot more time playing Oregon Trail and playing around with BASIC on those computers, but I definitely learned the underlying concepts about using a word processor or spreadsheet, and was able to really easily transition to Wordstar 5 for DOS and later other apps.
It wasn't so much about typing a letter to the editor or whatever we were doing back then, as it was about being comfortable accomplishing a certain set of steps with a computer.
I wonder, then, if you had 30 third grade students in a computer lab, 10 using Windows, 10 using Mac OS, and 10 using Linux (perhaps Red Hat? whatever is dominating is probably wisest), could you ask them all to accomplish essentially the same task? Of course, I mean that they should rotate to each machine, although not necessarily during a single class session, and be exposed to all the machines.
Any teachers out there? Does this idea make any sense?
So in your signature, you state 200GB is not enough. Are we to believe that all 200GB is work related?
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
I functioned as a business professional for several years using a Mac, without any serious problems. I found that Office was the determining factor. Because there was a Mac version of Office, the OS was of secondary importance.
As more and more office functions are filled by web apps, the determining factor will become the development tools used in the creation of said web apps. IT departments that go with Windows-centric web apps will box out users of MacOS, Linux, BSD, et. al., and IT departments that refuse to tie themselves to Microsoft will make it easier for users of alternative OSes.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Thank you for linking to a working cache of the full article.
defenestration
n. [mythically from a traditional Czech assasination method, via SF fandom]
1. Proper karmic retribution for an incorrigible punster. "Oh, ghod, that was _awful_!" "Quick! Defenestrate him!"
2. The act of exiting a window system in order to get better response time from a full-screen program. This comes from the dictionary meaning of `defenestrate', which is to throw something out a window.
3. The act of discarding something under the assumption that it will improve matters. "I don't have any disk space left." "Well, why don't you defenestrate that 100 megs worth of old core dumps?"
4. Under a GUI, the act of dragging something out of a window (onto the screen). "Next, defenestrate the MugWump icon."
5. The act of completely removing Micro$oft Windows from a PC in favor of a better OS (typically Linux).
Courtesy dictionary.com!
www.olin.edu
Linux Apache/1.3.29 Unix mod_auth_passthrough/1.8 mod_log_bytes/1.2 mod_bwlimited/1.4 PHP/4.3.3 FrontPage/5.0.2.2634 mod_ssl/2.8.16 OpenSSL/0.9.7a
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Unfortunately, nobody really seems to care one whit about which operating system they use.
Most people have a fuzzy idea or no idea as to what an OS is and does.
Zealotry, like usual, is pointless.
mif
http://www.residentcynic.net/
My how times change... Today I rather dislike booting under Windows because Linux "just works"!
I do keep a single Windows install now... It's for my ATI AIW 7500. They never got the video capture working under Linux. At least not to my knowledge. Otherwise, it's not enough to really keep me away from using Linux as my primary OS. It's a duel boot, and always defaults to Linux.
Meanwhile my laptop, server, and other desktop are all Linux boxes, and I can't see any need for Windows... But then I'm not a gamer either.
I have traditionally been a windows user. Up until I got sick of all the b.s. that came along with it. I installed Slackware (my favorite server distro) on my desktop and have been running with it for 18months. I have even got my girlfriend into using the desktop (KDE). Yes there are some problems with Office documents and features etc But for the majority of people power point presentations etc are not something that needs doing on a regular basis and there are some excellent html/java slide show creators that can do very similar jobs. Taking all that on board YES there is a long way for KDE/Gnome and the others to improve on the desktop but at the same time it has come along way and for the majority of internet users it would have more than enough features and software for average joes and jills at home browsing and chatting...
"As much as we all hate it, we have to keep Windows around for some necessary things" - by kkirk007 (304967) on Sunday August 21, @06:31PM
I don't hate it... by no means!
Microsoft Windows & especially their NT-based Os' family are VERY stable/solid (especially since Windows 2000 SP #4, XP SP #2, & Windows Server 2003 SP #1 + hotfixes etc./et all) but also, & imo, MOST importantly?
Have kept me employed w/in this field - far more than other Os' have, & largely due to your statements' point - it's out there, on 90% of the world's computers (desktops AND servers, combined), & there's NO escaping it really.
(Especially for employment purposes as well as those of it having just more apps out there for more purposes (both from the commercially produced world & even shareware/freeware worlds)).
Now, don't get me wrong - I have stated this before here repeatedly in other posts: Linux 2.6x & KDE (+ it's Qt libs with Kylix (Delphi on Linux giving it RAD development), the better desktop shell imo vs. Gnome/gtk... what will help GNOME, imo, & also Win32 & MacOS X here: RealBasic, at least for developers... you get developers, you get apps, & you start winning... how MS did it in fact imo & experience) rock!
Linux has come a LONG ways since I first tried it in iirc, Slackware 1.02 or so in 1993, albeit biting largely off of & imitating portions of how things have been done in Windows NT-based Os' since day #1 (especially regarding threads &/or process scheduling methods). See here for my view on that:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155314&thresho ld=1&commentsort=0&tid=201&mode=thread&cid=1304523 3
BUT, admittedly, Ms' has done some things that appeared in Linux first - e.g.-> putting http.sys into the OS for IIS, @ kernel level/Ring0/RPL 0 for FASTER PERFORMANCE! Beats doing webpage caching of data (iirc, this is what it is used for server-side) by a MILE vs. doing it in Ring3/RPL3/usermode driven code!
I like MacOS X too... it truly is, "art & science" in 1 box, very pretty, & solid with its BSD underpinnings. BUT, this is leading (the BSD core in it) to my next point:
This whole field, point-blank? Imitate & improve upon... & we as the end-users, get the bennies!
So, this "I hate Windows" &/or "I hate Linux" stuff? It's, point-blank, bullshit and a waste of time people... don't you agree?
I say, & have before to folks here & other sites:
Get off your lazy ass, & start coding for them. Make them work together.
If you, as a computer person, are not a coder? Start writing up documentations to help others get them to work together (e.g.-> Samba or Wine (or more modern things like VMWare etc.)) better!
This, imo, IS what the trend of the future in this field will be - interoperability!
See, imo, neither OS family (or any of the "Big 3" imo for personal computers) is going anywhere. Linux &/or Windows NT-based Os' have been around for more than a decade & growing better/faster/stronger & more capable each year as well as more secure.
The thinking, imo @ least, should be to start to make them work TOGETHER as best & seamlessly as is possible as the 'thinking for the 21st century'... & imo, even the folks @ the Linux distros are working on this as are the folks (Mr. Hilf @ MS anyone) at MS as well (they do have things like MS Services for UNIX 3.5 you know)...
Even Steve Ballmer, who once called OpenSource "cancer" has mellowed & realized this... it's the 'wave of the future' & neither camp is going to be 'uber alles' & take the whole ball of wax.
Each OS type, has its place & niche out there, no questions asked (whether it be for ubiquity/flexibility (Ms wins here imo), or cost (Linux win
I did. On my laptop. That has a 4 gig HD and 128 megs of RAM, and 433 mHz processor. And I used a 2.4.x kernel. And then I had to get my Netgear WG511 card working.
All told it took me about 10 hours of reading the docs, not including compile times, and most of that was spent trying to get the WiFi working. But the thing just freaking works now, and I haven't had any major problems with it in the 10 months since I did it. (Heck, i'm using it now.)
For people unwilling to undergo all that, though, there is Ubuntu.
The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
My post above has the entire article in a single webpage (the "printable" format).
Quality games you've probably never heard of. Yes, if you're a typical "omg frags, xp, +3 mace!" gamer then yes, you can get by with linux (after dealing with emulation/translation troubles). But for the finer games, Linux just doesn't cut it at all.
I don't understand why they're aren't Linux based CD-Rom/DVD games. You wouldn't have to install, so there wouldn't be any software requirements. The game developers would control the whole software environment so support would be easy.
It depends on the version. WMV files can use different MS codecs, just like how AVI is a "container" format. Earlier WMV files play fine, but WMV9 just crashes MPlayer.
I installed Firefox on a Linux machine for my wife to read email, i.e. no viruses. And I have to log her out every other day. Firefox leaks with Gmail's javascript.
Sorry but I find all desktops apps work better under Windows. Linux is better server and embedded platform, but that's about it.
The only part of your post that may be considered as valid is the part of cross compatibility of documents... but only if you work on quite complex documents...
I'm a tech type, the most recent addition to the computing arsenal was an iBook G4. Why?
For one thing, I realized that most of what I needed the laptop for was web/email/Office based and that I could run all of those apps natively on a Mac. Many of the other apps I want to run fit in the engineering/IT stuff category you mention, and those I can run as well on the Mac as on linux since OS X is essentially BSD at the core.
For example, I rebuilt a custom app from work (that had already been ported from Windows to Linux) over to OS X in about 5 minutes after I got the iBook. For the few remaining commercial apps I use at work that don't have Mac versions (mainly microwave simulation stuff) I just VPN to work and use remote desktop from my office PC.
Granted with Crossover Office I probably could have done the same running the Windows version of Office on Linux, but I would still have to run the Windows version of Office and would not have gained the smoothness of user experience that is OS X :-( .
BThen, go Mac. Control what you want, and let everything else run smoothly -as it would do if you had set it up by hand. Believe me, it's like that.
It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives."
Well, first of all, you won't be using Windows on your desktop "inadvertently".
Now, "require" is a pretty fuzzy term. There are some proprietary formats you can't easily access if you don't run Windows. What does that mean? It means that you have a choice: you can license Windows or you can make a choice not to access those formats and live with the consequences. In some lines of business, the consequences are nil, in others, they are significant.
As a home user, however, there is never any requirement to use Windows: it is trivial to function without running Windows, and it's still pretty easy to function even without a PC.
If you use System A for a couple of years and then use System B for 10 days, you are very likely to conclude that System B is far worse than System A. That has nothing to do with absolute quality of the two systems, it has to do with learning each of them. Even more so, it has to do with finding out about all the different add-ons, tricks, and applications that make each system usable.
If you are considering switching, your best bet is to do it gradually.
Start with switching to major cross-platform applications: Thunderbird, Firefox, OpenOffice, Eclipse, etc. For programming, choose Java, Mono, Perl, Ruby, or Python. To get familiar with the UNIX command line (always useful), get a copy of Cygwin. and start using it. After you have gotten used to those applications, switching to Linux (or moving back and forth) will be much simpler and less disruptive.
I know where I work there seems to be only one major thing that would prevent engineering and technical ops from being able to use Linux. That one thing is AutoCAD it's absolutely vital to what they do.
.dwg format including Xdata and Xrecords and is fully compatible with exsisting objectArx extensions. If where I work is any example you would have engineers leaving Windows in droves if somebody would create an application like that. Most of them could move in much less than ten days.
I work in R&D for an engineering dept and a Linux switch has been tossed around more than a few times but it all comes down to the fact they have a ton of extensions built into AutoCAD and they can't afford to move to something that doesn't provide the same funcionality.
A lot of the functionality they use is built directly into the file format itself. If AutoDesk would port AutoCAD to Linux my users could easily switch as many of them use Linux at home as do I.
It's not so much Windows itself that keeps that dept on Windows it's the apps that run on Windows that they have decades worth of information in that they can't afford to lose which only run on Windows that is keeping them on Windows. I have encountered several Engineering shops over my career in the same boat.
If somebody wants to do something super useful make a CAD program that fully supports the
I may just. I perhaps should have included mac users, I was just in a hurry. I guess my pulitzer will have to wait for another day.
A "computer Science" Student? Having such few resources and so little problem solving ability?
I would never hire you.
Or playing most media files or doing any of those things that are much easier on Windows (playing DVDs, downloading pics from a digital camera, running store-bought software, playing games, etc.)
And even beyond that, running Linux still requires learning all kinds of knowledge that's not really useful except for maintaining Linux.
If you wanna play games, go get a console. Computers are for serious work.
The phrase "arrogant, fu*king, elitist dickwad" doesn't begin to describe you. The mods may mark me as "troll" or "flamebait" all they want. But the fact is that if you honestly believe what you said, then you don't have a fu*king clue about the potential that PCs have for purporses other than your snobbish "serious work".
Enjoy your little bubble world. It must be very lonely in there. It's certainly very rose-colored.
... several times, I am always shocked at how useless Linux is as a desktop OS.
Not that I've even RTFA (God forbid) but I'm always flummoxed to hear people claim linux is less user friendly (which isn't even inherently true) and that since switching to a new desktop environment is momentarily 'non-intuitive' or difficult to adapt to that it then follows it is not cost-effective or worth switching. Well, if people could learn to pause (for only a second) when they encounter that things don't work the same in 'nix and patiently surf the docs or google for a solution as well as working to, in a sense, "survey" how the various apps work, then maybe they'd recognize that Linux is overall more stable and many distros can be operated entirely through a GUI anyway, with in some cases, more ease than windows. I mean seriously, how is mandrake, for instance, harder than windows?! Certainly there's less hardware compatibility and the tech support is more expensive now, but as people start buying linux-friendly hardware and dual booting (for kicks!), by degrees Microsoft will be down on her knees and open-source will own j00~!!!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Just buy second computer and kvm switch.
Then run windows on one, and linux on the other.
Surf, email, firewall/proxy and what ever you want with linux, and use the windows for office and gaming etc.
Switching from system to another takes second or two.
Your windows stays clean since you're surfing with linux and have it as firewall too.
Yes, it's another $400 and there's expense of power for running two computers, but linux works nicely on older hardware too.
Once you buy good computer for your second desktop, you should be able to run it for several years.
If you need to upgrade, you probably can use some of the parts left over from upgrading the gaming machine.
Wanna save $50-100 and skip buying the kvm switch?
Just use vnc over network then, or remote desktop. It'll suck for gaming, perfectly good for office though.
This way, you get the best of the both worlds, without too much hassle.
s/linux/bsd/ if that's your flavour, same principle applies
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
Parent does not know what he is talking about, especially in regards to COM...
At least with NeoOfficeJ, when the documents are opened in Windows, users can see the pictures.
In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
Sometimes FEWER features makes for a better program. Until you get something from some PHB who just had to use some obscure feature that you can't import.
Sounds drivers are still pretty weak in Linux too. While most cards have some support, most "advanced" features are still absent.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
And it's sad b/c it's filled with nothing but non sequitur, meaningless garble. There's no real reasons here, just a bunch of whiney excuses. You're obviously a student and a young one at that, evidenced by your "Chewbacca Defense". There's nothing here to respond to in detail b/c it's all crap. There's no detail to speak of!
Of course, the funniest/most pathetic statement of all is your line about Mac and Linux being dead upon the roll out of Vista. Good one, LMAO! Just keep holding your breath. That line alone makes you deserving of a "troll bait" mod.
"But if you're dumping windows, you no longer have a need for those games." Then why was Wine created? Why are many Linux afficionados still dual booting with windows? Certainly not because they need the calculator or windows media player (tm). Your analogy would be akin to saying that a driver who resorts to walking to go somewhere will never need his car again. I can't understand how you got modded to 4, interesting for such a worthless comparison.
what a tool. and i admit to being stupid enough to read the article. i lost serious interest when this alleged "programmer" defined "gui" as "general user interface" -- but i'm glad i stayed to the end so that i could learn that he lives in "tocoma, washinton".
You'd better keep those anti-Linux thoughts to yourself unless you want to be gang raped and beaten by your fellow CS students.
It is my understanding that Microsoft will ONLY give schools "free" software if they agree not to use software from other vendors, including Linux and other free and/or open source software.
I don't think that should be even legal.
No, "we" don't. "We" is all inclusive. There is no "we" here. There are a lot of us who never run windows, for any reason, none. Stop making excuses, if you run windows, just say you run it, end of story. Accept it for what it is, accept your decision and do your best to make use of it, just accept that you prefer that way. Some prefer mayo, some ketchup, some mustard, the world is just like that.
Use any platform to teach the concepts of computing - like what drag and drop is for, what the clipboard is used for, the concept of a file system structure, u know...stuff like that. Once they have the concepts down, give them an operating system as an excercise to show them the different computing environments available. Then ask them their opinions. I think that could be a very constructive session - both for the kids and the school.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
[$.02]
I have to agree there is a certain disdain from the linux community and it detracts from what linux and OSS should be about. If it helps, I also see the same disdain from "techies" in general towards those they consider non-tech savvy. Could just be manifest inferiority complex, could be only partially developed social skills, but it does seem to be widely present.
I've posted on this before, I don't claim there aren't stupid users/consumers of technology, but I do defend their right, even expectation not to have to know the difference between AMD and Intel, 64 bit and 32 bit architecture, etc. just to be able to type up a letter and e-mail.
I, too use both platforms for my work... I prefer linux 'cuz I love to twiddle bits, but for practical reasons I'm always using XP for some reason: some essential software to me only available in Windows (Hey, I can't port every app to linux that I need, though I've ported many); support (gotta know enough about Windows day to day to handle the calls from friends, family, etc.); and convenience.
A most satisfactory configuration for me is a dual-boot machine with linux typically the default, or a fast Windows box with VMWare running one or more of my favorite linux distros. (Word to the wise, one thing to consider about dual-booting a machine is the hassle you may get (I did!) if and when you have to have warranty work done on your machine).
[/$.02]
People say you need Windows for day to day. Personally, for me... that need doesn't exist. Once I no longer had the desire to upgrade my PC to keep playing the latest games, and just continue working... I got rid of all my Windows boxes. Has it hurt? Not even a little bit. The only reason I held onto Windows for so long was to play games... but I have an XBOX which I use on my HD TV... so all that inferior to computer graphics goes right out the Windows (pun intended)
I've got some extra time. I've used Windows briefly a few times in my career, but I'm certainly not experienced with it. If somebody wants to loan me a suitable box with Windows on it, I'll try it for ten days and report back to everyone. What do you say?
i annually try Linux, but as soon as i hit the "The Linux Version Excursion" i just put the mouse down back away from the keyboard slam in a floppy and start again with windows, every 'kin time. Your operating system should not be a hobby.
happy
One factor he does not mention is the exposure of naive users under Windows to viruses and spyware.
It is a paradox that people always tend to suggest Linux is unsuitable for casual computer users and only for power users. The reality is the reverse. For a first time computer user, set him up with Mandriva or SUSE and he will be just as comfortable as he would with Windows.
For the power user, it is better to have both operating systems available but currently (if forced to make a choice) one needs to go with Windows. Part of the reason for this is that Linux based applications can usually be made to run on Windows, often using Cygwin (albeit in a less robust and lower performance environment) but the reverse is not always true.
i started using linux at 17 and had some issues but figured them out or googled until i had a solution. i love linux, it's my OS. i wouldn't trade that for vista or osx anyday. it's like the difference between a free (as in freedom) delorean (linux/unix) and a ford with it's hood welded shut (windows). the delorean is complex, but it's a real hotrod once you get it tweaked. as for windows, yeah it just works, but where does that get you? and i'm not exactly dvd jon or even 186,000 miles close to that.
Check out one of my latest JEs and you'll see that Windows offers people like me very little. I'm willing to be that MOST Slashdotters are people like me. The only thing I need it for at this point (speaking of home use only) is video editing. I still have yet to find a suitable video editor in Linux that handles MPEG2 (*.mpg) files and will save out with no loss in quality. But that's it. Check out my latest journal folks and you'll see that Windows really doesn't offer people like us much.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
There are OO.o 2 binaries for OS X out there, if you look. Has the version 2 features, and loads ten times faster than NeoOffice/J. Copy TT fonts to the /share/fonts/ directory to have nice fonts. Enjoy.
I second this. I switched to OS X from linux for my scientific work and for doing stuff at home, and I am delighted! A cool UI and all the unix stuff just works. Also, a lot of useful OSS apps I like(XEmacs) etc are available for install through Fink or other package managers. Best of both worlds.
I can't read the article at the moment seeing as their database doesn't appear to be able to cope with the Slashdotting but simply put, switching over is a nightmare.
Before all the BSD/Linux/OSX users jump me, let me tell you I'm desperate to get off Microsoft software, however, I can't very well dump 10 years of computing experience and instantaneously learn 10 years of FreeBSD.
My 1 year plan of attack:
1) Start to use Open Source software on Windows
2) Move exclusively to Open Source software on Windows
3) Move over to FreeBSD
Right now, I'm almost at stage 2. I'm waiting for a decent calendaring solution and I'm good to go*.
Everything else I use is now Open Source. It's been a painful 8 months but I'm working hard to give this a chance.
Now, the interesting part comes when you start to move over to a new OS. It's a complete nightmare!!!
I've heard a lot of people say it's as easy as putting in the RHL disk and clicking a few buttons and I agree. It is, so long as you're only wanting to do office grade work!
Don't get me wrong, I can install RHL, Debian, FreeBSD and run it fine so long as I only want to use the web, send email, create some artwork, etc but if I want to install PHP, Apache, PostgreSQL, Postfix, BIND and connect to a network (Samba) then I'm going to be here for a good few months just to get it working (properly and securely - not hope-and-pray).
Once I've got it working, should something go wrong, I'm down for another day/week if I don't understand how things work.
I am an Open Source advocate but I don't for one second believe a switch-over is going to be easy and neither should anyone else here.
What we need to do is manage people's expectations of moving over. If you think it'll take less than 6 months to do the switch, then you're probably not a developer and I imagine most of the Windows users here do some form of development.
Anyway, enough of the ranting. I look forward to the day I can finally switch over.
Here's a big thank-you to all the Open Source developers who work so hard to give us our freedom!
* I still have to use IE for work to make websites 'work'.
A hundred and twenty characters ought to be enough for anyone...
Now, the interesting part comes when you start to move over to a new OS.
That's why you shuld start doing that first.
For your server apps, like Postfix, start setting them up on a server before you quit using Windows as your desktop. Figure out the way the OS works on a system where you don't need much of an environment to get in and use it... not one where you're trying to maintain a whole window system and everything.
Here's the article, in case none of the available cached sites don't work correctly either:
I know what youre saying, and I agree. The idea of spending 10 days in someone elses shoes certainly isnt new but do you really think you will ever see Mr. Spurlock record a show depicting a similar situation or setup? Youd fall asleep during the opening credits. Now, it might not be a life or death adventure but at least its one that Ive never heard of or read before and if I could just offer a small taste of how easy or hard the switch would be then so be it. That single reason is why I decided to put my body, mind, time and even lifestyle into harms way by going 100% cold turkey of all Microsoft software for a whole 10 days.
10 days? Well that hardly sounds hard enough! Sure, it doesnt sound so hard but take in account that over 500 million of us use a Windows OS at least once, everyday of the week and you too will see that going cold turkey from XP to KDE might be harder or more limiting than first thought. Not surprisingly, millions of people and corporations are making the switch to Linux or another variant of Unix to save costs or maybe cut their chances of having to resort to piracy to continue to operate but from what we hear daily Microsoft and the news is that Linux doesnt seem to be any less expensive than the Windows platform and for some could limit the very things that they used to take for granted.
Although I am a tried and true believer of the Windows platform, I do own a Mac Powerbook and have on occasion used Linux when setting up servers or for 3D modeling but never have I thought about using it as my primary desktop; in fact I even told myself that I would have to go insane before I shut the windows and let tux in the door
How much of our lives truly run on Windows?
Well, if you ever leave your chair (sadly, it wouldnt surprise me if some of you shrugged just now) and actually go outside then Im sure that youve used Windows at some point and time during your outing. For emphasis, let me explain to you my full days schedule on average: I wake up, take a shower and then groom myself. I then head downstairs and turn my television on which just so happens to have a Windows Media Center PC hooked up to it. I then head over to the kitchen which happens to have a Windows powered laptop which I use to somberly browse the net while I eat Captain Crunch out of the box and throw milk down my throat. I run off and get dressed but not before I synch my Windows CE powered pocket PC and then I drive off to school. On my way I forget I have no money on me and so I must stop by the bank to withdraw some and guess what? The ATM machine happens to run embedded Windows! I could go on and on but I think that I would start to freak some of you out with my weird pre-dinner rituals. Anyways, my point was merely to show that many of us use Windows whether or not we even know it.
Now before I go off and potentially alter the very way I live my life, I thought I should do some research as to what the most popular Linux distribution is and exactly what Im getting into. I looked at the most used and the most supported of distributions and came to the conclusion that I would go with the Mandriva (formally Mandrake) distro. Now, it was a really close call because there are literally thousands of Linux distributions and over a dozen that are primarily used but I chose Mandriva because it was possibly the most likely distro that newcomers into the Linux realm would choose. Its got 20+ languages in support, supports every processor imaginable, graphical installation and also has buttons that look edible. All of these things are possible wow factors that would grab a skeptic in, especially the purdy buttons.
Im set and I have selected a Linux distro so now I have to lock all of my Windows powered goods into my closet and the next paragraph you read of this will have been written from a Linux box. Be sure to join me and try to keep up as I venture into the land of taboo and exoticism that is open-source!
Looks like the Flexbeta servers are over worked. I have some extra bandwidth and would be willing to mirror the article if I can get the text and the blessing of FlexBeta. Email me jason@chooseopen.com
We wouldn't have any reason to go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com everyday without it...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
Admittedly, I was using IE, but that's no reason I shouldn't be able to follow link...
I haven't touched Windows 'myself' as a desktop since 1995. I used Linux for a few, then went FreeBSD now use Solaris religiously. I can do EVERYTHING I did in windows. Music, Movies, Art, etc. Oh, yeah I'm not a gamer, but that's what PS2s are for. However, you 'can' live your life 'without' windows. I've been doing it over a decade now.
Linux strikes me as more the OS of choise for tech types (engineers, IT pros, etc), as its much more robust at those type of applications than Windows.
Even engineers have to use the office tools for non-engineering work. The setup I have at work is a Windows machine with Exceed used to run shell and design apps on Linux servers that host the project files. That way you get the benefits of the Windows desktop for the office tools, and Linux for the design environment.
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
"So in your signature, you state 200GB is not enough. Are we to believe that all 200GB is work related?" According to *my* tax return it is.
Who can argue with the advantages of Linux? Less malware, transparent, stable as all get out. I grew up on Microsoft but have used Linux for the important stuff, like setting up my website. But guess which OS words best to visit the site? Because I may want to print some of the articles, I use Windows.
Since none of ya'll RTFA, the author, on page 2, refers to a GUI as a 'General User Interface'. No wonder you use Windows, schmuck!
How do you do it gradually? I've actually been running Linux on my desktop at work some, because I need to learn more about it. We are going to start offically supporting it and unlike Windows and Solairs, we don't really have any gurus, so we all need to learn more about it. The problem is, that I find I have to force myself to boot in to Linux. Why? Well it, at best, does things as well as Windows does and in many cases does them much worse, or just not at all.
So of course I do the natural thing, I take the path of least resistance and just leave my machine in Windows, espically whenever I get busy.
Now I'm willing to do this, I'm a tech worker, it's my job to understand how to support our systems. However how is this supposed to apply to an average user? They are going to be very unimpressed if you tell them "Ya well you can do some of what you want easily in Linux, the rest you'll just have to figure out or do without." They are likely to just go back to Windows perminantly.
I think it's fairly difficult for most people to switch if there isn't an ideological reason behind it. You just don't find any advantages as an end user. For some it might seem like it initally, those that are spyware'd all to hell will probably find Linux a relief initally since it'll be faster and work stable, but soon, very soon, other annoyances and problems will creep in and they'll be frustrated all over again.
This is really the area that Linux needs to improve in, if the objective is to penetrate the mass market and really compete with Windows. It needs to be easy for completely non-technical people to switch over. This is getting more true as MS is slowly erroding advantages Linux once had.
Time was, Windows just wouldn't stay up. It wasn't a question of if it went down, just when. Not the case anymore, a good XP system will basically never crash, and it'll handle patching while you sleep so from a user perspective, it's never down. Likewise spyware and exploits were/are major problems, but they are clamping down on that too. The included firewall stops nearly all automatic worms, and their spyware tool is really quite slick and I imagine will make a major dent when it is in a release state.
So really what Linux needs to concentrate on is an easier end-user experience. Now leaps and bounds have been made in that area. I remember the first time I tried Linux in 1996 and had to get a friend who was an expert to help me even get it installed, now for most research systems in the department I drop an FC3 CD in, install, patch, setup LDAP, run our automount script and call it good. However there's still a long way to go.
One thing, for example, is the install process. For almost all Windows software, including most OSS, the install process invloves clicking on an executable which launched a nice graphical installer. This walks you through any options, and then does all the install needed. Any libraries that need updating are updated, all settings are taken care of, etc. In Linux, things are usually at best a make script. Now when it works, it's pretty easy. Config, make, make install, what's so hard about that?
Well it's intimidating. Normal users, and even us tech peopel that can't program, get intimidated by the compiler. It's something that's way outside the experience of normal users. And then what if something goes wrong? I've had make scripts fail and generally I'm sunk, I don't understand the errors because I don't know C or compilers. Imagine how an artist feels.
So things like that really need to be improved, if Linux in teh mainstream is a goal. Most users won't give a new OS months, many won't even give it a week. It'd better do what they want for word go, or they'll dump it.
Can someone please post a full mirror with the complete article you fscking slashbots?!?!
I'm sure many of the /. readers here would agree, Windows is a great OS for those people who don't have a significant amount of time to learn about open source alternatives such as Linux. You don't really think your grandmother wants to spend weeks learning how to read her email on Linux do you? If they just want normal day-to-day tasks, like reading email or the latest news, go with Windows -- there's nothing wrong with that.
Actually I would disagree.
Windows being "evil" is of course a pretty bold claim.
But Windows comes as close as any software on earth can to claiming that title. What other software makes it oh so easy to get spyware, or requires outside administration to run without incident.
While I agree that currently a commercial OS is going to over better with your grandmother than Linux (for now) I would not put someone I care for in the hands of Windows - instead I would simply choose a Mac. With Office they can open and generate Word files. With Mail they have a simple and functional mail reader that works great for most people. They can choose between two great browsers, Safari or FireFox (with no BAD choice that is in fact the default one).
All OS's take some learning to get used to. More people are used to Windows to be sure, but a lot of people know Macs pretty well by now and will not have to intervene nearly so often to help users out. For those used to Windows OS X is not that hard to pick up.
Can you say with a straight face you would leave a grandmother unattended for several months with Windows over OS X? Windows is not a necessity of any kind when picking an OS for the inexperienced user, nor has it been the best choice for a few years now.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
> It's amazing how many day-to-day operations
> require the inadvertent use of Windows in our
> daily lives.
Speak for your self.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I dont think so. Maybe once a month or more. I had started a windows install on the other partition and forgot about it for about 2 months. It just was too annoying to set up all the drivers. I had Linux going and it did what I needed.
I used to operate a business, and I had MS Office and Windows 2000. I quit using them both in favor of Linux and open office, and Linux is better now then it was then.
I could get by without windows (I still do play a game there if I think about it from time to time, although I do much more under Linux), and if I was running another business I would go all Linux again.
They might be shooting themselves in the foot by making xbox 360 so good. Run Linux for computing XBox 360 (=> PS3) for games.
I don't keep a lid on my coffee so when I walk around I look busy -me
Most users will NOT give a new OS 10 months. Sure, given enough time, you can learn how to do most anything. That's not what people want, they want easy. If you are going to have them switch to a new OS, they want it to be easy. Easy meaning they can figure it out and do what they want in a timely fashion. You aren't going to find many non-techie users that will put up with using an OS for months on end to learn how to use it well.
That's the reason why Macs can succede, despite the high price. You can take a Windows user and sit them at a Mac, and they can get what they want done generally. After a couple days, they'll have most things figured out because most aren't difficult to do. It's different, but not any harder.
Not the case with Linux. It's often MUCH harder to get soemthing doe, at least for an average user. I'll relate my latest favourite story:
So let's say you have just installed an OS on a computer, and you want 3d acceleration with your Radeon 9600 to work. In Windows you can just install from your OEM's driver CD, but if you want the latest version or DIY'd it, it's as simple as going to ati.com and downloading the driver. Just run the executable and it's done. OS-X is equally easy, if it came with the system, OS-X supports it, Apple won't have it any other way. If it was an upgrade, or you just want a new driver, agin ATI has a simple installer that just works.
So now for Linux. I installed FC3, which was the latest at the time. Got the driver from ati.com. Told the RPM to install, it wouldn't, conflicted with MESA. Ok so uninstall MESA. Wrong answer, hosed the system badly. I decided to just reinstall the whole thing to make sure nothign else was screwed up. Asked a friend, he said to force install. That didn't work. Poked around on Google, turns out the driver doesn't support the latest kernel version.At this point I find a Fedora site that has a yum package that is supposed to work. Get that and it does install, but GL is still be provided by MESA. Look around and find patch for ATI drivers for current kernel. Ok patch causes all kinds of other problems. Firend says it needs kernel headers looks like and says to recompile kernel. Get sources, compile kernel, still no dice. GL doesn't go over to ATI. Join a Linux help IRC channel and ask, they suggest converting the RPM to TAR (and provide the utility), apply patch, and then build it. Try that system goes to hell.
In the end I never did get the driver working.
Now you can see how something like this would be waaaaay above a non-technical user's head. "Go to site, downlad file, click" is something they can do. Go through massive series of steps involving lots of technical troubleshooting isn't.
I think 10 days is a pretty fair trial. Most normal users, if they can't figure it out in that amount of time, will give up and switch back.
Just a note - I agree with you that once Linux is set up, it's pretty easy to get used to. I do not think that the learning curve for Linux is that steep, especially with some of the newer distros like Ubuntu that put a premium on usability.
:), it's quite a dogged procedure getting it up and running. Once it's up, then I have no trouble whatsoever.
The problem - for me at least - has always been in the installation. If I give my computer to a Linux guru, chances are that I'll get a completely functional distro installed and ready to go. If I don't, I spend ages trying to get things set up. You have experience with setting it up, and once you set it up, everything works fine for your family. For the rest of us who don't have that much experience with Linux (and especially those of us who hate compiling from source
Windoze is JUNK. Where I work, there is a network we must use. A bunch of DELL / Windoze that keeps locking up on people's desktops. The worst part about Windoze networks is that the I.T. fix-it workers are soooOOOOOO stoopid and DULL and incapable !!!!
I speak the truth.
I use my SuSE laptop for work because right now, my node on the HUB is NOT WORKING and I notified the Dummy-Support-Group 10 days ago.???? At first, they deny it. Then the check it out. Then they panic. Now they mumble. Apparently the hub is overloaded and they must order a new one (???)
The worst part of the windoze monopoly are the armies of "microsoft certified" support people who are UTTERLY USELESS.
for anything.
I look at all the people who have windows around me and I just shake my head when they have trouble.
Linux just gets out of way and lets me get my work done. It takes a hell of lot less maintenance than windows despite what the mainstream press would like you to believe.
I am the original poster.
Dude, don't know about you, but "I" won't hire you, since you don't realize that 'Linux' and 'Windows' are both simply pieces of code. If you can't select the optimum thing for a task and have pre-determined bias based on politics (open source politics), you are not worth a dime. I am sure you work for someone else, and will so, for the rest of your life.
This guy is a computer-science guy who knows a lot about computers -- even if he had little Linux experience he still knew what was going on.
Show me "Grandma gives Linux a test drive" and then I'll be interested.
-David
No dude, he won't hire you because you think reinstalling is the proper way to fix a lost password.
The sheer mind-numbing madness of Windows addiction was made apparent to me the other day when I was asked to troubleshoot a typical XP box on which an admin-level account was used to connect to a broadband account without the benefit of a router/NAT. This wasn't your average home PC but the sole computer within a business based on a membership database sitting on the same machine. One PC for the whole business with all its sensitive data wide open to the internet.
The owner complained that the box was grinding to a halt and could I do something to remove the inevitable infestation. I suggeted various remedies, one of which was to disconnect the machine from the internet and do all browsing and e-mail on a 2nd reconditioned PC running Linux with a SAMBA share to get files across to the XP machine. Surf in safety I guranteed him.
It was not to be. Not only could I not convince him that he had already suffered enough but I also showed him how to set his LCD monitor to the correct resolution, eliminating the fuzzy fonts and bringing clarity to his display for the first time. I even showed him how to retain the enlarged font size he'd been used to by using font size options instead of changing the resolution. Alas, it was all in vain. "Err, I'd like you put it back to how it was, if you don't mind". So I turned his display resolution back to the wrong, fuzzy setting and he was happy. Happy with his ailing, dysfunctional PC putting his whole business at risk. Such is the force of habit.
Your 30 days mentality is WRONG as this avid windows user proves, 10 days is enough. I'm going to come up with 7 day linux, switch to linux for only 7 days, and make a crappy documentary about it, since I won't have the funding for something great, it will suck.
My problems with Ubuntu were with Wifi. KWifiManager is unusable for whatever reason, but I am able to use the card after editing the configs by hand. doesn't make much sense to me, since this is a well-supported Lucent card... but... whatever.
Truth is, Microsoft writes some of the best software around, that is very stable and works predictably on numerous different types of hardware and in numerous different conditions.
Even organizations that do produce superior software than Microsoft in some situations usually do so at the cost of ignoring many other situations that Microsoft does not ignore.
I really don't think that anyone else will come out with a better version of any of Microsoft's core products any time soon.
Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
--Proverbs 9:7
Indeed.
And if the submitter of the story had taken the trouble to read it, he might have noticed that nearly every link supplied points at Microsoft. Even the link supposedly referring to OpenOffice.org points at a Microsoft propaganda article.
Are you going to give up cars and exclusively use public transport? Are you going to stop usng electricity and move back to heat and light from whale oil? Why add extra complication and hassle to your life than you need (and re-learning how to do common tasks in Linux is a hassle when you're used to the way Windows works).
Going open source is not going to cure cancer, bring about world peace and prevent N Sync from releasing a best-of album. It just means you've saved yourself a few bucks and reduced Microsoft's profits by 0.0000001%.
Windows Tweaks
I like NeoOffice/J.
.swx or even plain-old-text. Or they can use .doc and maybe it'll work (until the next time MS arbitrarally adds stuff to break their own compatibility).
It was the first thing I downloaded for my new Powerbook, once I did the initial updates to OSX.
I got used to using OpenOffice on my old now-dead HP laptop that I had dual-booted for Linux... and I much preferred using OpenOffice on the Linux partition than the clunky MS Word on the Windows partition.
It's not really even about "free as in freedom", or "free as in beer", or any OSS-worship motives.
While all those things are nice, the bottom line is that MS Word just plain sucks and would NOT do what I wanted it to do... and reading MS helpfiles is like a trip to purgatory.
OpenOffice and OpenOffice/J, by contrast, are clean, well-made, and do what the heck I want them to do.... and the helpfiles actually HELP me figure out how to get stuff done while using them.
As for people who HAVE to use MS Word, well too-bad so-sad. Sucks to be them. If they want me to read their documents, they can use HTML or PDF or
Anyway... life is full of choices. If people choose to use inferior. buggy, and unfriendly programs made by Microsoft because they feel that they "have to", then that's their choice.... but I'm not inclined to play that game.
I use what works... and I also prefer things that are made by people who take some pride in their work and turn out good code because they'd feel bad if they turned out crap. That's why I use my shiny new Powerbook, and that's why it has OpenOffice/J installed on it, along with a program called Fink that lets me compile Linux apps to run on my Powerbook.
So I get a nice shiny machine, with nice shiny programs... both proprietary and Open Source, all working seamlessly and well, to do what I want them to do.
You ain't getting that from Microsoft any day soon.
Read (first page of) story here.
I went blind looking at the MirrorDot background to get that link, there better be like... 5,000 karma in this for me.
I8-D
I am the original poster (again).
oh yeah...and how many people do you know...CS or non CS...who run a triple/dual boot/only linux config at home ? I haven't met many. Most are rooting for linux but run mac or windows at home. I don't care what these people think. And i don't think many of them have the balls to even find out how to non-destructively partition their NTFS drive. I did that...and spent a lot of time on that coz i really wanted linux at home. But it is Just Another Operating System, and i found it to be a damper on my productivity, as compared to using Windows XP.
"Linux the movement", collaboratively developing the code and giving it away for free is what is good that has come from all the linux related efforts. The desktop OS that tries to be very similar to windows but isn't (and can't be) is a losing and dead-end effort.
Again, i love linux but i won't (can't) use it anymore on my desktop. Servers, sure...yeah. But desktop, it is dying a slow but sure death which all the fanboys won't acknowledge.
I switched to Mac from Windows about four years ago. I got a ton more productive, my time spent troubleshooting my hardware dropped to almost nil, and I find the interface and programs much more well designed.
After experimenting with Linux in my pc days, I found using the Terminal in OSX (along with the security of falling back on the GUI) enough to get me through. Now, if I NEED to use the terminal, I can.
Overall, if you're looking for an alternative to windows, even though the price of linux can't be beat, the Mac is a much easier stepping stone.
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. - Initial
support (gotta know enough about Windows day to day to handle the calls from friends, family, etc.)
I don't go out of my way to learn how to do stuff in windows for that very reason - I need an excuse not to support windows.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Why can't Linux users accept that Windows just happens to be better than Linux in one area - the rendering of ...... windows. If you doubt this compare OpenOffice or Mozilla running on similar hardware between XP and Linux. Both open source apps run a lot faster on XP.
Let's face the facts. Linux has inherited the old X window system which is a dinosaur which grew up during an era when UNIX was mainly a console-based OS excelling in server performance. In many ways it is still Linux's niche, desite the attempts to promote desktop Linux. Until Linux gets a completely new windowing system I can't see it competing with Windows in rendering speed. So long as Linux relies on the X window system it'll continue to be mainly a server OS, at least as far as the average user is concerned.
Me, I've almost eliminated the need for Windows. Only use it for testing web pages in IE6, 5.5 and 5.1 (Virtual PC). My daughter needs it for her games, though. No "Barbie Secret Agent" for Linux yet.
I can't make the product better for me, and I don't have access to something I have not just a moral right to, but what should be a legal right to as well.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The free marketplace is a democracy. People have voted with their dollars. Nobody is forcing you to use MS software! What moral right do you have to the BILLIONS of R&D dollars that MS has spent? Why do you deserve access to the hard work of thousands of talented programmers? What it's akin to is you buying a VCR and complaining that it's not a Jet plane. Dumbass.
Microsoft may be displaced as the largest software company in the world, but it won't be taken down by whiners spouting off about moral rights handing out software. This is business, not a crusade. It will be taken down by failing to adapt the an ever-changing technology landscape. That's why companies do R&D. MS does a LOT of R&D, so it may take a while.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
I haven't used Windows for years. Only Linux. I have no clue what is so essential about Windows. I buy stuff over the net, I work on manuscripts, I keep contact through IM and email. I edit photos off my camera. I use my USB stick. I watch DVDs. I rip MP3s and load them onto my iPod. I take my Thinkpad all over with me. Same goes for my wife and her Thinkpad.
I can't read the article about someone who's gone without Windows for 10 days (it's slashdotted) but I've gone without for years.
The last time I tried to install a USB camera on my father's win98 machine, I wasted hours downloading drivers, using Windows update to update Windows Media and other crap and in the end couldn't get the thing to work. Good riddance.
I don't get the games fetish. Maybe I'm too old at 32. Maybe I have too many real responsibilities with a car, house, etc.
Or playing most media files or doing any of those things that are much easier on Windows (playing DVDs, downloading pics from a digital camera, running store-bought software, playing games, etc.)
I don't play games or buy software from stores (no, I lie - I did buy an OSS CD for a few bucks at a computer store because it had the latest versions of OpenOffice, Mozilla and GIMP on it - for Windows, Mac and Linux).
But the other things - no problem.
I stick a DVD into my laptop running Linux and immediately Totem starts up. I download a media file from a website and a media player starts up (usually Totem). Word documents with tables that I open in OOo sometimes have the edge of the table outside the page margin, but that's fixed with a few mouse clicks - no worse than opening the word doc in the wrong version of word.
Digital camera - plug it into the USB port and the camera appears as an external drive full of jpg files. Maybe windows launches some photo album app but I prefer to just copy the files to a folder on the laptop. (I just realised I've been using KDE so long I said "folder" instead of "directory" - I'll have to hand in my geek badge).
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
1. Installing apps sucks on Linux. And don't say "oh, well if you take a couple hours and learn all the commands and how to work out the dependencies, it's really not that bad." It shouldn't be bad at all. It should be a non-issue in 2005. I heard there are some simpler ways that are gaining popularity, but I won't learn about them till next year.
2. It seems that a lot of Linux enthusiasts are very interested in tinkering with their OS and tweaking stuff and getting it all the way they want it. When I was 16, that might have been interesting. I'm a little older now, and now I'm more interested in doing stuff than getting my OS ready for something I haven't even identified yet. For example, I don't want to tweak ASIO drivers for my sound card, I want to make music.
3. Too many distributions, no unity, blah blah blah.
4. Those cursed bootloaders. Moving on...
5. Someone else replied to this article and suggested that Windows users need to strap on a pair and get into Linux. Commercial software (Windows, OSX) has evolved to the point where the act of strapping on pair can be reserved for things that actually require balls. Computing is not one of those things (unless you're in the business of making mind-blowing software or something). Linux still hasn't dug itself out of the user-unfriendliness hole. It's getting better, but it's still a biatch. I'm not going to wrestle with an OS unless there is a compelling reason to do so. I have better things to do.
6. For me, the lack of game support and quality music production software is the nail in the coffin. Without good apps to run, why bother with the learning curve?
Hey, if you like Linux, have fun with it. I'm not criticizing it or the people that dedicate their time to their OS of choice. I'm just trying to point out (once again) why it's just not catching on.
Yeah, this is a difficult balance to strike. I've worked in computers for over twenty years. Worked my way to nice money, nice reputation. My friends and family know I know computers and know their questions for help on a scale of ten in difficulty typically register less than "one" in difficulty for me to solve. What they don't realize is it typically registers 6+ in annoyance on a scale of ten. Sigh. I'm sure it's similar to being a doctor and always having people ask for free advice/diagnostics.
I've resigned myself to spending more time than I want, but tried to allocate time such that I leave some for myself aiding and abetting others with their computers. If I don't they either think I am unforgivably rude (this may be close to truth many times), or I am imcompetent.
Microsoft Security Bulletin
MS08-021
Windows User Experiment Could Promote Linux Code Execution And Loss of Revenue (8399801)
Summary
Who should read this bulletin:
Users running Microsoft ® Windows ®
Impact of vulnerability:
Run code of users choice
Maximum Severity Rating:
Critical
Recommendation:
Windows Systems administrators should apply nicotine patch immediately.
the "show me grandma use Linux for 10 days..." argument. Fact is grandma cant use Windows, OSX, Linux or any other OS productivly, by herself in 10 days. It just cant be done. People that know how bad Windows sucks and want to get some work done for once, well, they use Linux or BSD or OSX or something that is not Windows.
$ whatis msft msft: nothing appropriate
Microsoft aren't also bastards from a software source code point of view, but also in dodgy business practices, mainly involving bribing schools (ok, harsh word, but that's how I see it) with free software to use their products, and not teach the kids about software alternatives.
...erm, wait, shit.
Damn straight. Nobody should just give software away...
paintball
oh yeah...what would you have done, if you had no idea what your username/password were ? Couldn't have called tech support or googled for it ! Really, tell me, how ?? If it's possible to get into a Linux system without knowing the username or the password..*shudders*.
Besides, I didn't have any data on it and re-installing took me under 40 minutes.
To confirm you're not a script,
please type the word in this image: install.
Kernal is an acronym for "Keyboard Entry Read, Network And Link" and is basically the core of the operating system. It holds interpretations and routines for all code which is handled and is mainly responsible for the entire operating system's handling behavior.
Yeah, the whole thing was too cutesy and poorly written. I actually got to the above statement and was just able to keep from retching. Did this guy misspell 'kernel' and then just make up an acronym? Or did he find this on some reputable website? As far as I can tell, 'kernal' applies only to Commodores.
I recon that Vista will have to be extremely good in order to stem the migration away from Windows. By all accounts it will be a rip off of the apple interface anyway.
How long does a person use Windows? For a person to go cold turkey takes way longer than 10 days. I was intially an Amiga user, but knew Windows fairly well 'cause of the job. I got a PC and was using Windows and Amiga. I worked at a company that used Solaris almost exclusively. I found I really liked Unix a lot so I set up RedHat 5.X on my PC and Watchtower on my Amiga. It wasn't my first intro to Linux since I tried a Slackware distro in 95, maybe 96. I started using Linux more and more, and it wasn't until about 2000 that I totally abandoned Windows. That is about three to four years to adjust and I already was very versed in Unix. There are times where I wish I had an app for Linux, but I just adjust and find a way around it. To give a person ten days to go cold turkey is crazy. This is like asking a person that has eaten with thier mouth since birth, to learn to eat with their nose in ten day or starve. Ken
He should have called Morgan Spurlock and offered to try it for 30 days. Would have made for an entertaining episode.
I've tried the original article link! No luck...
/.'ers off to msnbc.com for a week or so, and cite statistics of how many got sunburns for the first time in their life, those who actually used the shower instead of a wet rag or heavy cologne, or maybe just maybe, the number of web admins at any random web site who were finally able to take a week's vacation in that interim break from the /. effect...
I've tried the coral linky thing! No dice...
Hell, third times a charm right? No. I tried the google cached page, and...you guessed it, more blank pages as I twiddle my thumbs in anticipation to RTFA.
Oh well, maybe there needs to be a study by someone who weaned
I think the parent post makes an excellent point.
I've been using computers since 1981 (ZX-Spectrum), and I've seen stuff come and go. I have used PCs since DOS, Macs since 1985, Amigas, Atari-STs, CP/M machines and many, many others.
I can run pretty much any computer and OS on the market and do what's required to keep everything up-to-date and working smoothly. It's not hard, but I just can't be bothered.
I want a computer that has the apps I need, works well and doesn't require me to spend my days keeping it running.
For me, a Mac is exactly that. I don't want to have total control over my computer. I'm happy to let the OS do things for me, and I'm happy to have Apple arrange things to suit how I work.
Is it perfect? No.
Is it better than spending my time managing the computer? Absolutely.
"Linux strikes me as more the OS of choise for tech types (engineers, IT pros, etc), as its much more robust at those type of applications than Windows."
In general, whether it's under windows or linux, CAD software is much more unstable than either OS. You don't need Linux to run cad software.
Vote for Pedro
I've been playing with coLinux today (I run Windows, but the SeaMonkey Project needs nightly Linux builds for users to test, and our resources are pretty limited) and I have to say, it's pretty cool. I recompiled gcc in less than 30 minutes, and it doesn't feel slow at all to use. It's significantly faster than the cygwin process that's used to build Windows versions of SeaMonkey (and Firefox).
I was thinking it might be possible to set up some sort of coLinux-based package which lets people run gnome, openoffice.org, gaim, etc. You can access your host system's data, which means the "where are my mp3s?" type things won't be a problem. You are running native binaries (I'm running an ordinary debian setup), so you get the exact look and feel you'd get if you were running linux. You can install packages just like you would.
At this point, there are some challenges with sound, and you need an X server or vnc client on the Windows host for GUI apps, but the package could take care of all that stuff so users don't have to worry about it.
You could have various levels of transition - ranging from launching apps from the start menu (I can think of easy ways to get that sort of integration), all the way to hiding explorer and using gnome full time, with Windows skinned to look like GNOME for any Windows apps the person still uses. The end result should be users who aren't afraid just because Linux desktops look different, and aren't worried they'll have to hack text files or learn the commandline (things you shouldn't have to do in any decent end-user-oriented distro).
Just a thought.
My server
still haven't grown up I see, will look back in a year if it is still here.
Nuts. What freaks me out is the penetration M$ has into his house. He names what, 4 licenses he's paid for before he gets to the bank, which has unfortunately wasted more of his money on his behalf. He forgot to mention his M$ "powered" phone, his BMW and a half dozen other overpriced and underperforming junk.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I'm amazed that you can fit two lines of spam into your sig without going over the 120 character limit but not fit your entire comment in one post.
I count 99 characters before using the actual address in the links.
I see a few comments about how there is a learning curve for linux. I see a few more comments that it takes a while, but one can become fully MS free if they take the time to learn the F/OSS software out there.
I DISAGREE (wth, its slashdot and I have karma to burn). I have found many things that windows does more easily or better than the linux or OS X counterparts do.
My wife refuses to use GNUCash over Quicken (luck has it there is a mac version).
Nothing touches the simplicity of DVD Shrink or DVDecrypter. I have found dvd's that dvdecss wont decode at all. Multimedia is *NIX's biggest problem right now.
I keep one MS computer around for these purposes... other than that, I have a Knoppix, an Ubuntu, and a Mac box.
Windows still has its place even if it is just as a honeypot.
Stop signs are only Suggestions
Disclaimer: I'm a Mac OS X convert as of two months ago. Before that I was a FreeBSD / Linux person that used Windows for various things (Office, games, etc) but without much enjoyment.
Windows: Tries to get in your way, force you to do things its way, doesn't provide a decent option to de-dumb globally. Office is a nightmare of over-featured bloat that most users will never use. When something goes wrong, it takes ages to fix because whilst you know what is wrong, Windows tries to stop you fixing it.
Linux / FreeBSD: Works well. If you know your stuff, it is easy to fix stuff and set up. I've had issues with upgrades however, after some time it will eventually mess up. Desktop applications are a mishmash of good and bad, or poorly thought out in a single crucial aspect whilst being very powerful.
Mac OS X: Doesn't get in your way. Allows you to actually get work done. Many applications are much more specific in their task (alternatively known as not having as many features, but the features that it does have actually work as you expect them to). Dashboard sucks. I don't think it can be beaten as an end-user operating system, however I can see that it lacks certain things that corporations would like in a desktop computer.
Computers come down to personal preference and what you are used to. If you only know how to do something in Windows and you aren't of a mind to sit down and learn how it is done in Linux or Mac OS X, then you are simply going to state that you need Windows for that task. Despite the frustration that you might have with it in Windows (e.g., tables in Word).
One thing that I like about Mac OS X is that it generally eschews the dozens of small icons in a toolbar that you can't really make out that well and thus never really use. Applications like Pages, Keynote, Mail and so on have a few buttons that bring up or hide inspectors or sidebars. A good design guide means that you'll always know how to do the common tasks (save, open, print) and you don't need a small icon that is hard to hit (Fitt's Law) present.
However it will take you a while to get used to this alternative way of working. Once you are there though, you will know you are more productive and find computing much less of a drag. What is unfortunate is that this goes for migrating from Linux or FreeBSD as well as migrating from Windows.
Also there are issues such as Logitech's APPALLING lack of support for Mac OS X for their webcam range. Canon's DIRE support for their scanners (hurrah for ScanVue). Samsung's AWFUL support for their printers (can't use my 1 year old ML-2250 under Mac OS X, but you can under Windows and Linux, sheesh). Now that the Mac seems to be having a small revival, maybe some companies will spend a little time on supporting it. When you run into something like this, it can be very demoralising, and appear as a negative against the OS.
But is there anything I *must* use Windows for? I can't think of anything in my line of work that couldn't be done in Mac OS X. However I think that there are big gaps in the software range for Linux, such as good finance/accounting/tax applications. Specialist software is another area where Windows can have a stranglehold, and if you use some of that, then you'll have issues.
I get by without using Windows at all. So does my entire household. Thousands of other people all over the world get by just fine without using Windows at all. Before there was a Windows, (1985, just twenty short years ago, people, not that long to remember if you try!), EVERYBODY who used a computer AT ALL got along fine without any Windows. Tell me, folks, if Windows is so necessary to the function of a computer, how do you think computers were ever invented before Bill Gates was born? (They were too! Google Charles Babbage!)
Speaking as one who has used Macintosh, Windows, and Linux, we have three machines in this household running Linux 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Collectively together, we program, design graphics, chat in Yahoo, surf the web, play Flash animations, watch Real Player movies, play games, manage office documents and business records, and use modern devices such as laser printers, USB keychain drives, and CD/DVD burners. All on Linux. All the time. And I must say, even I (geekiest of the lot) find little reason to resort to a command line anymore.
I'm just dying to know what arcane task needs *just Windows* to be executed anymore. Unless it's specifically coded to stop dead and balk if it doesn't find Windows running and it won't co-operate with WINE and a feasible alternative program doesn't exist... ever seen the ad for the company that will *custom-make* a special Linux version of any Windows program you come to them with? I've seen it running in the Google ads on this very site!
Games...yes, we had a box of Windows-only games I bought back when I was dumb enough to settle for that. True, they will not run in Linux. Instead, thousands of games are now being made for Linux, which you can DOWNLOAD FOR FREE instead of shelling out $40-60 dollars for them. At that rate, we can play a new game every week, now, instead of playing one game all month until we're sick of it because we feel like fools if we don't get our money's worth out of it. The box of Windows games ended up going 50-cents apiece at a yard sale. The people getting them shrugged and made noises about how they were keeping Windows 95/98 running at home because they weren't about to shell out for the upgrade. So I offer them a home-burned Knoppix CD and just say "Try this when you get sick of the games."
But hey, I'm standing by for the usual howls and screams and flames of indignation I usually get when I say this kind of thing in this kind of thread. How dare I speak the truth! Especially where a paid-M$-shill has an account.
I don't understand the mentality that forces people to choose one operating system over another. Use Windows for things Windows is good at and use Linux for things Linux is good at. What's the problem? Hard drives are cheap these days.
I've not used windows in years, and probably will not use it in years to come.
I don't hate windows, I just think it's a piece of shit.
You don't need windows, ever.
Do you think if I took a few screen shots and posted a little blog about trying to use dillo, I too could get posted on slashdot? As I write this, dillo is currently show 18 html errors on this page...you should see it !work on the main website I actually use for work: http://www.uptodate.com/ (not /. silly!)
I've got to get over to yahoo and get that blog setup before anyone else gets the same idea!
Building a healthy future; Connecting communities
"And yet, not long ago, this was a topic of much concern by auto-shops who wanted access to the error codes the car's computer would spit out so they could diagnose and fix cars."
The operative word is "design documents". If you've never encountered one, then I can see why you'd be confused. A design document goes into a level of detail that a Chilton manual would never do (not needed). Schematics and blueprints are part of what constitutes a "design document", but aren't the whole. So the poster you're responding to has a point, keeping in mind that computer code is easily transferable between it's two states (code, machine language), while it's significently harder to go between a cars two states (physical car, design documents). Error codes fall inbetween the two, and are harder to derive from the former, than the latter.
I mean, obviously if you use windows all day and never once have heard the screams of the damned you must be.
I'm ashamed to call myself a fellow slashdotter if you haven't played DOOM!
Go cold turkey for 10 days? I've been using it for 4 weeks cold turkey with no wish to use windows ever again. Happy with my decision.
Read Entire Story here
This link has entire story cache'd, and looks more like original site. Enjoy.
I8-D
The level at which this is supported is the same as any other Linux obscured poorly documented mess of text files.
For the average use including system admin its nothing but a pain in the ass to get the 1450 Broadcom wireless card to run on SUSE 9.3 with and AES WPA
It's little crap like this that would overwhelm any Whindhowes Convert trying to go cold turkey
And the sad part is that the average new windows convert is likely going to select SUSE.
Deserved or not, SUSE has good PR with respect to breath of supported drivers.
--
Why did the Linux user cross the road? To crack the flawed windows on the other side.
"Why would I want to mount my CD? I expect to just put it in and it to be available."
Hey! Hey! They're little geeks present. Watch the language.
Oh, yeah? Tell me, Windows loyalists, did you ever get Outlook Express to understand the concept of multiple email accounts and different stationary/spam filters for each? Figure out how to stop Windows from dumping icons all over the screen? Get rid of the MS Network and Network Neighborhood because you never use it? Get Windows to recognise your new graphics card without a struggle? Stop Real Player from firing up at startup and immediately demanding your whole machine's resources? Completely remove software you uninstall, without having to go in and manually delete folders? Confess to you where it hides ALL the cookies and let you clean them ALL out? Not show the taskbar?
Yes, I'm sure everybody's done some of what's on this list... but you weren't born knowing how? Right? You had to...guess what?...READ some DOCUMENTATION to learn how to make it do what you want! After all, if Windows is just SO-O-O-O silly easy, why were manuals written about it "for Dummies" flying off the bookstore shelves from 1985 to 1995 or so? Why would people need things simplified to the "Dummies" level if it were as simple as could be, already?
Linux comes with it's own "for Dummies" docs, free. Man pages, info pages, html docbooks, et cettera ad infinitum. Just have a gander through /usr/share/doc and you learn everything in Linux just like the "for Dummies" books in Windows!
Nobody has explained what they need
windows for? Games maybe, buy a darn
game machine. The'er Microsoft Office
suites you can buy for the Macs, you can
use crossover if you will not want to
spend that kind of money. Or better
most Linux packages come with a XML
based Office suite(openoffice), Open
source compatible with the world including
Microsoft. Which runs in all three OS
mentioned here. Correct me if I am
wrong, but is it not true that even
Microsoft is finally catching up to
Open Office by switching over to an
XML based Suite? And I thought it
was weak to give in to the Dark side?
Sincerely,
NisquallyPauli
"I put my mom on Linux and she has never used a computer in her life. Yes, she had a learning curve, but that was mostly with how to use the mouse. Now she's burning CDs (easier with Gnome than Windows) and emailing digital pictures (again, easier with Gnome than Windows' shoddy digital camera support)."
Wow! Someday someone will try that with OSX. Maybe even make a commercial around it.
Hey guys, I'm the last person to defend Microsoft, but it's amazing how many people are so blinded by Linux and all the cool, gee whiz things that it can do that you fail to see what a pain in the ass it CAN be for people who don't want to delve into the technical details on a daily basis.
I have developed middleware that runs on Linux for three years and really enjoy the capabilities of the operating system - yet every time I switch to Linux as my primary O/S at home, I end up getting pissed off in a couple days and go back to Windows. Why? Because when I'm NOT WORKING, I like to use a computer for applications - I would prefer the O/S to be seamless (I kind of thought that the O/S's core purposes is to support the apps), to be so easy that if I don't want to, I really don't even need to worry about it. For me, Windows is the closest thing to this experience right now. I don't want to have to worry about library dependencies, scads of config files, and the normal crap that invariably comes along with a Linux machine. I actually like Linux - in the right context. But for me, Windows is a good choice for a desktop O/S because it lets me install and run applications without a hassle. You also have to realize that Non-tech people want an even more seamless experience - until Linux can be as smooth an experience for the average user, I'm sorry but I see Windows still dominating the desktop space.
Bob
P.S. As my subject indicates, there is WAY too much blind Linux worship going on here. You know you CAN admit that MS can do a decent job now and again and still love Linux and the Open Source movement.
I don't see how many people would like being forced to a completely different operating system in 10 days. For windows power users it's like being forced to speak a different language in 10 days, it takes time. For people who barely know how to use windows (like just IM, web surfing, music playing, and email), it'll take a lot less time to learn how to barely use linux.
I use Cygwin and I love it. Runs under XP, 98% Xwin support, and includes apps that Windows needs separate huge programs for (ssh, rsync, and of course regexps).
Of course, there's no multiuser and everything is run as the Windows user logged on, and cron, sshd, httpd, don't run as well if at all, but I use my home box for that.
'Be always mindful, even when ditch-digging.' --D. T. Suzuki
See It, Try It, You'll LOVE IT!
And hey...
and hey...
It's based on our favorite ol' FreeBSD.
That may look like a paragraph, but it's actually just one little sentence...
What happened to people being taught to at least write *passable* English? I'm no grammar nazi, but this article is awful.
--S
-- sigs cause cancer.
Frankly, I think you're full of it. I'm a Mac owner, so I have no horse in this race, but everything I've seen indicates that emulated games run slower on Linux. If that's not a problem for you, cool, but don't misinform people just to defend your choice.
Anyhow, despite loving Linux, RMS etc. I used Windows as my desktop until December 2004. Then I got a Linksys USB wireless ethernet adapter that my desktop could not handle. In fact, it completely crashed my Windows. So I backed up everything on C: (but not D:, E: or F:) and put the crappy OEM reinstall CD in (which is devolution - the straight Microsoft Windows 95 installs were much better, now it's crappy Compaq OEM reinstalls). So C is wiped - and D is wiped as well! And it wipes D to put a 2k or so file.
So by now I am sick of my wireless ethernet not working and with my crappy OEM reinstaller. I boot up a Debian rescue CD and read my D drive raw. This allows me to get my list of people's phone numbers. Then I figure, screw it, and wipe my Windows machine. I installed Debian.
I've missed it less than I thought. I thought I might have to read Microsoft Word files that would be unreadable, but haven't had to. So the main problem, Microsoft Word, I haven't needed in 8 months. My roommate has a Windows anyhow, so if I'm desperate I'll just use his to make or read a Word file if Abiword or whatever can't.
The other thing is games, although since I am now self-employed, it's probably better I'm not wasting time on games anyhow.
In many ways I'm much happier. I just have all kinds of PERL and C programs connecting to a MySQL backend sifting data for various things. Then I check it out on my local Apache with PHP scripts. I guess some things are a pain - I bought a CD-ROM burner and haven't figured out how to connect it and my DVD player together nicely so I just use the burner for now. Also, Java and some video tends to run at a load average of over 1 (for my one processor). I have an old 3dfx card and figuring out how to get it working good is a pain in the ass, not that there's much to do with it anyhow. But aside from these things, I'm happy. I can probably do whatever I want to do, it's just that some things take time. I keep adding kernel modules, although for some things a complete kernel reinstall has been necessary. I'm running 2.4 because I don't want to go through all the hassle of upgrading to 2.6.
Windows CD's are also good for shooting at.
It's far more gratifying than punching holes in paper.
If it's so easy, why doesn't Ubuntu see my Window shares? There's no information in any of the help files about why it doesn't work. That's just the *first* problem I ran into with my most recent attempts at getting basic Windows-level functionality from Linux.
I don't respond to AC's.
A lot of people have a problem with the concept of a "monopoly". So let me try to get some of the facts straight. There is NOTHING ILLEGAL in having a monopoly. Where companies run afoul the laws is in the methods that they use to maintain their monopoly. This is the problem that Microsoft has (the technology aside for the moment). Once you have been ruled a monopoly (that is the first step and the first thing that Microsoft was ruled as), then there are a whole host of business tactics that are illegal - for them. So...say it with me. "Monopolies are legal." (This is not targeted specifically at you, NickFortune.)
I have to laugh at how angry Linux users get at Windows in general. Its sooo funny, many posts on here are hilarious (yeah yeah like this one) and I am amazed that something as simple as an operating system can inspire such hatred in many Linux users.
Isn't this like the fiftieth time this "novel experiment" has been tried?
exponentiation ezine
That was one of the very few sane comments. In my earlier job, we could get rid of Windows for all server applications using open source stuff - Samba for PDC, Sendmail / QMail for mail server and Liferay based apps with Postgresql for email and document repository. They have been performing very reliably even on a not-so-powerful hardware. It was hard to not use MS for desktops. OpenOffice was nowhere near to be a reliable product.
"If it's possible to get into a Linux system without knowing the username or the password..*shudders*."
It's not a bad thing to be able to do this with physical access to the machine. If you have physical access, nothing is sacred unless you encrypt the entire volume.
That said, it's possible to not only gain access to a windows machine without a password, it's possible to GET THE PASSWORDS BACK (which is not feasible on a *nix machine). It's also trivial to reset the password.
If someone told you to chuck Linux and try Windows for 10 days, could you do it? I certainly couldn't. Have to appreciate the guy.
I don't want to read
I can't tell you how many times I've regained someone's lost password from an XP box. It's really not all that difficult at all. No passwords are secure unless, as a previous poster named, the volume is encrypted or unaccessible physically. The original poster is obviously a sub-par CS student if he doesn't realize this. I'm not flaming, just pointing out the obvious. I think most regular Slashdot readers are quite keen on this and a simple Google search would even tell you, Mr. CS student, how to regain or reset your password... on any OS. Having to reinstall an OS b/c of a lost password is a sign that you are either inexperienced or just trolling. I'm guessing it's a combination of both.
I use Gentoo on amd64 machine, native 64-bit software.
My friends keep asking me why I don't use MSN Messenger -- obviously they fully enjoy all the nifty features that it has. I use a messenger that is a messenger only.
At the moment, I'm looking for some program to use to connect to my Nokia 3510i on my PC. I've yet to found an open sourced program that would enable me to do that. So it looks like I'll have to go for Logomanager which is Windows only.
Yesterday I wanted to play a game of online chess with someone -- that never happened, because I couldn't get the damn website to function correctly. The site requred Flash. I haven't got flash to work with Firefox, so I fired up Opera, only to find out the site wasn't loading there either. So the person I wanted to play with suggested I reboot into Windows. Too many reboots for my liking.
I have Windows installed because I couln't get Oracle database installed under Gentoo (tried the available How-to and some other tutorials), got some mystical errors.
There's something about Windows that makes me reluctant to boot into it. I can't point out what but there is that *something*.
HahahahHAHAHAHAH! Good one! Microsoft will fail...in our lifetime???
- I'd be interested in a similar article about somebody who switched from Windows to OSX (on anything)
Damn those pesky relevant answers to questions askedperhaps you should contact microsoft technical support and ask why windows doesn't recognize your ubuntu shares.
Despite not having a license Midway isnt just lying down. They are relasing an updated version of Blitz. Without the No Fun Leagues rules they include all sorts of goodies you will never see in madden.
m g_2871413.html
http://www.gamestats.com/objects/719/719321/
Highlights include being able to use steroids, bailing your players out of jail and an Atlanta QB named Mexico
http://media.www.gamestats.com/media/719/719321/i
For those that dont follow the NFL Ron Mexico was listed as the alias for league posterboy Michael Vick, in a lawsuit filed by a woman claiming he gave her genital herpes. Chcek out the smokinggun. For extra fun try ordering a personallized Falcons jersey on NFL.com with the last name Mexico.
I know of nothing that Outlook can do that you can't do with Evolution and I'm sure there are plug-ins and extensions for the Mozilla suite that'll do the same. (Which is good, because I personally find Thunderbird to be a nicer e-mail client.)
MS Project is one I don't know about, on the Open Source front, but I think the odds are high of a clone being out there. It's just too widely used for nobody to have tackled this one, yet.
Now, if you're using application servers that need specialized clients, or something that absolutely has to use an undocumented Microsoft protocol, then yes you're going to have to use Windows. Well, unless the program works under Wine, then you can use Linux, and Wine is certainly progressing. Slowly, but it is progressing.
On the other hand, there's really very little that hasn't been documented (or reverse-engineered), so most programs people would use under Windows also exist in some form under Linux. It can just be harder to find them, sometimes.
Network administration is one area where Windows may be necessary, for example. (Huh?) It is possible to read from an Active Directory system under Linux - there are DDNS servers that'll work with LDAP - but writing still seems to pose problems. I'd be wary of mixing Windows Active Directory systems with Linux, unless you know what you're doing and are willing to put in the extra effort in getting the two to work together.
Web servers that use ASP and server-side VB are also going to be problems - there are filters that'll convert ASP to platform-independent server script, but I've not seen much progress in this area for a while.
And anything written using code specific to SQL Server or Access will also have problems. But that can be worked around and you shouldn't be using version-specific hacks anyway as Microsoft isn't tied to making things backwards-compatiable. You've no guarantee any of your software'll still work after any patch or update when you break standards, simply because a given release will let you.
(Remember the havoc wrecked when MS tightened up security with some of their XP fixes? Broke a LOT of bad code, because people were careless with their assumptions on how MS would do things in future.)
WebDAV? Done in Linux. Shared peripherals? Done with Samba, so it's in Linux. OLE? There are Linux implementations, but that's probably an area you'd want to stick to Windows, if that's the way you HAVE to do it. OLE isn't a good protocol to be using.
NTLM? Done in Linux. NTFS? Mostly done in Linux, but I'm not sure if the write functions are regarded as completely "safe" for Joe User yet. Again, if you're using NTFS, you're probably going to want to use Windows.
OpenGL is supported, a lot of hardware acceleration is supported, Wine can do DirectX but I won't vouch it'll do everything and I won't guarantee there will always be libraries for X or the Kernel Framebuffer that'll cover all of the functions Windows will.
Also on the graphics front, TrueType and Adobe fonts work but not all hinting on OpenType is complete yet, so if you're doing some heavy-duty DTP that absolutely needs OpenType, Windows may have an advantage.
All in all, there ARE things, then, where I'd recommend using Windows - usually because Windows has some specific function Linux doesn't, or where it supports it in a friendlier way. I cannot think of a single general-purpose application which falls into that category, though, they're generally pretty specific to power users or managerial users.
There is absolutely NOTHING Windows can do that Linux can never do - Linux is near-enough complete as far as Turing's computability goes. (Near-enough as in Turing
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I would love information on where to start for someone that knows NOTHING about Linux as I have a PII 350 collecting dust and would love to learn more about Linux.
What would be the best distribution for the average windows user to setup?
Also any pitfalls to avoid?
first was using mandriva, should have used redhat AS 4 which I run...I love it!
Should have also used GNOME not KDE
it said it took him just as much time to install mandriva as it does XP...he definitley is not the brightest crayon in the box. It took me 20 mins to install and format Red Hat AS 4 on a Dell Dimension 4300 with a P4 1.4 and memory maxed out at 512 mb sd 133 (not ddr) and a 80 gb hdd. My roomie was telling me about ubunto (sp?) linux and how "it just worked" and it had a pre-emptive kernel.
after I read the first 2 pages of mistakes I wasnt about to read the next 5...typical windows users..
did it run over your dog?
sum.zero
Either you are trolling, or you have tried soemthing like Red Hat 6 and nothing since. Every single problem and "hurdle" you come up with are things that have been dealt dealt with long ago.
Windows VS Linux posts = spam for days
At telford college in Edinburgh the have a computer Science/ Networking / Sysadmin Qualification.
With no other OS than m$.
This is a liscense thing M$ gives discounts / free software only if NO OTHER OS is taught at that school.
Of course if they were using LINUX, it could be a big discount, but then our students wouldn't be learning m$ cry the faithful.
Once a convicted monopolist...
I took the big plunge from XP to Fedora Core 3 a few months ago. I would consider myself a savvy user, having been doing this wintel schtick for the last 14 years or so.
I liked the quick install. I appreciated it, because I had to do it several times before I got it to work. I really like some of the features... but, frankly, when I want to play MP3s on Windows, I download WinAmp. When I want to do it on FC, I spend hours trying to learn how to makefile and all sorts of screwy shit I can't even recall. Installing plugins to play movies? More screwing around. Accessing windows file shares, installing a new program that I don't have an all-in-one install file for, finding a wysiwyg html editor, webcams on MSN... hours of screwing around, googling, finding forums...
I know, once I've used it for a few years, that all of this will come easy to me, and I'll be a slick with it as anyone else.
Unfortunately for Linux market penetration... there are few people as stubborn as me, willing to take the time to put up with this shit.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
You even read this? Okay, go on: here's some trivia for you:
;)
;)
I only noted *some* of the programs i really use every week.
Now: Guess my job!
The prize is: A box of nothing!
(Think of the possibilities: you don't have to pay tax if you have *nothing*. No one will steal your stuff because everyone knows that you have *nothing*. And you can sell *nothing* to onter poeple for even more money, so they also have *nothing* and don't have to pay the tax. And if the police comes and they tell you you have to stop selling you can - with a big grin - say: "but, i really swear: i sold *nothing*
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
There's something to be said for the fact that Windows versus Linux has any relevance now at all. I think 2005 may be the year in which the tipping point finally goes towards Linux.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Samsung's AWFUL support for their printers (can't use my 1 year old ML-2250 under Mac OS X, but you can under Windows and Linux, sheesh).
Have you checked whether Samsung's site has OS X drivers available? The retail box of my ML-1710P listed only Windows and Linux as supported environments, but when I checked Samsung's site (prior to the purchase of course), it had 10.3 drivers available for download. Now the printer is hooked up to my Tiger-powered Mini and it works flawlessly. In addition, my iBook as well as Linux and Windows boxes print to it over my home network.
It isn't linux's fault your an idiot who uses buzz words..
Why hasn't anybody thought of this fantastic idea before? Instead of making our products compatable with the market leader, we will simply cry!
...is always a pain on the ass.
Honestly, just think about it, you are leaving your comfort zone to try niche things. It is bound to hurt, irrespective of what OS you are using. I prefer to do it in a safe, Free, and free environment, not in a virus incubator.
As far as I am concerned using "yum install" or "yum update" as appropriate has kept my systems running with Fedora for the best part of the last year. I have updated from Fedora cor2 up to Fedora core 4, including kernel, kernel source, and recompiled without any issues.
If you want to experiment create a virtual machine (I recommend using VMware) and trash it to your heart content.Once you are satisfied with how things are working then you can apply the changes to your working installation (which is mostly how it is done in serious IT shops, with the caveat that they may normally use real testing machines).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Is he just trying to see how difficult it is to run Linux as compared to Windows? Or is he just trying something new? I mean, props for him for trying Linux out, but if only for a week then there is no point. He needs to learn the how the operating system works, not just how to browse a GUI version of it. What's he using anyhow? Mandriva? Hah.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
And what does it say about an operating system, that it would inspire such worship?
I tried QEMU and did not work. It was sluggish or would freeze without any indication of what the problem was.
On the smae machine I installed VMware and have had no issues.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
At one point Pepsi was the parent corp of KFC Taco Bell and Pizza Hut. In the mid to late 90's (97 IIRC) those three were spun off as Tricon Global with Pepsi holding a significant chunk of Tricon stock and of course a nice (for Pepsi) contract to suply them with softdrinks. About two years ago Tricon aquired Long John silvers and A&W Rootbeer stands and changed names to Yum! Foods (YUM was and remained thier stock ticker id).
Most if not all (likely all) those names are of course trademarks.
One of the reasons many other Fast Food chains sell Coke is because they didn't want to be buying thier drinks from the competition.
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
So in the three years, as well as learning how to teach they also learn about all the topics they have to cover (I don't know, ten or twelve?), so each subject area probably doesn't get that long. Any wonder that kids may only get rudimentary skills in computing? Not sure what the solution is - probably - spend more money on schools, pay teachers more, increase the respect that teachers get so more high quality students want to become the next generation of teachers?
So, you smoked it but didn't inhale? :-)
How do do this?
If it's possible to get into a Linux system without knowing the username or the password..*shudders*.
/dev/myharddrive /mnt/temp /mnt/temp
...and you're a CS student? Please.
1. Knoppix live CD
2. mount
3. chroot
4. passwd
5. Profit.
Amusingly enough, while the first two links from Google are related to Windows, the third is nearly identical to the above, thus yes, you should have Googled it.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Haven't you ever played Diablo?
yeah it just works, but where does that get you?
Are you an idiot? "It works, but where does that get me?"
It means I can get things done, as opposed to constantly tweaking my OS. You only like Linux because you can tweak it. Try getting down to some real nuts and bolt work and then come back here.
Eating through a naso-gastric tube is easier than using one's mouth, you insensitive clod! You can even do it whilst sleeping.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
But really, I haven't found a reason to use Linux, niether have alot of my buddys, because most of the problems with Windows can be "Fixed"
I switched to Linux on the desktop a couple of years ago. Since then, I've occasionally been called upon to use Windows (for example in my current job) and one thing that I've noticed is that I've come to expect problems to be fixable.
For example, MS Excel is consistently generating an "Error 13" popup message every time I load it, which otherwise appears to have no effect whatsoever on performance. If this, or something similar, was happening on my Linux box, I would be digging into the system trying to figure out what was going wrong, even down to source code level if necessary. In Windows, that's a habit that's impossible to get into, cos all the programs are designed as little gated enclosures that you can't see into.
My experience is that most of the problems on Windows can't be fixed unless you're a master of reverse-engineering. You either get used to them or reinstall Windows. Neither is necessary on Linux as figuring out what the actual problem is, as opposed to turning a blind eye, is so much easier.
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
i've used macs my whole life, since i was in school, in college, and as a computer professional, too. i always hear that "Windows gets in your way" and "Macs just let you get work done". i love my mac and i agree that i get my work done pretty well, but i can't honestly say i know much about windows. how exactly does Windows "get in your way"? what does windows do that makes it hard to do work?
("windows crashes a lot" isn't a good enough answer. i'm most interested in UI frustrations.)
Welcome. As an OS X convert that followed much the same path you have (just about 5 years ago), I think you'll find that you'll finally stop hopping from OS to OS, from distribution to distribution trying to find something that actually works.
I run Linux servers for a living. I have run a smattering of Linux disros, FreeBSD and OpenBSD as desktop OS's. I currently have an Ubuntu X server at the house, and although I'm not saying you're wrong, I am saying that upgrades have been a relatively minor concern over the years.
Please elucidate; I see much more offered by OS X than Windows to a corporate environment .
Thanks
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
...just resort to the following Google cached page: http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:1CvlEjwElaUJ:w ww.flexbeta.net/main/printarticle.php%3Fid%3D106+& hl=en
Nota bene: the above link will take you to a printable version of the article in its entirety, not just page 1 of multi-page-patience-play this link will take you to
www.flexbeta.net/main/printarticle.php?id=106
Sig? What sig?! Ah, sig! Sigh.
They are offering the school a choice - not forcing it upon them. Just because MS offer something perceived as more valuable than what the Open Source can isn't a reason to cry foul.
If you care so much about it, then do something.
The school's job is to prepare children for work (oh and all that social guff as well). The harsh reality is that for the vast number of pupils who will never work in IT, experience with MS products will provide them a better skillset - you try explaining on your CV how you can't use windows, have no idea what office looks like - but can compile your own kernel.
Linux is out there, it's free and if anybody has an interest in it, they can pick it up and play with it themselves.
Why? Because Windows XP + Cygwin does everything I need it to do and I get the added bonus of sound, modem and my network card working.
Sure, I get to miss out on a couple of nice applications that won't compile under Cygwin but that hasn't really bothered me.
I can't imagine I'm the only one...
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
jes kiddin
that's a very valid point and i agree with your assessment of the self-righteousness of the "slashdot elite linux corps" *grin*
of course you are free to use whatever platform you like, and if a minimum of distraction in maintaining your system is the goal, windows is one of the better choices. although i do think that you are overstating the ease of use and minimum amount of hassle of a windows desktop.
my reason for moving away from windows as much as possible is that i don't want one company to be able to control my data. i don't want to be forced into the use of DRM. or proprietary document formats. or extended and badly implemented standards. for me, that's worth a little effort.
and that's not an elitist attitude... far from it.
Nope. It's a solution that mesmorizes the users into thinking it works. You know, like the joke about the drunk hunting for his wallet under the streetlamp because there's more light there?
How much time have I wasted with MSOffice documents, trying to get them to do something simple, just because it gets about 80% there and the boss thinks 80% is a hundred?
Writing your own drivers for the new camera you just bought is way easier than just installing the disc that came with it? Can your Mom go to Best Buy or Target and buy and install the tax software she buys there? How about the new Harry Potter game for the kids? Do you think she could figure out how to get it running on Linux? For people who have difficulty even reading the installation prompts and responding to them, learning to use Linux to do the things that are made easy on Windows is out of the question. They will choose the typical installation button over the custom installation button every time because they simply don't care enough to figure out the options available to them.
Windows: force you to do things its way
Mac OS X: Many applications are much more specific in their task (alternatively known as not having as many features, but the features that it does have actually work as you expect them to)
Come on, this is just one pejorative way and one non-pejorative way of describing the same thing.
You've just decided that the way Apple is forcing you to work is the coolest way.
Yeah, almost as funny as:
2000 is the year of the Linux desktop. 2001 is the year of the Linux desktop. 2002 is the year of the Linux desktop. 2003 is the year of the Linux desktop. 2004 is the year of the Linux desktop. 2005 is the year of the Linux desktop. 2007 may the year of the Linux desktop.
Conor "You're not married,you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart
I'm not a Linux user, so I can't chiem in on that aspect, but I have to agree with the grandparent post that I've had MANY people plug their camera into my Windows XP computer and have it autodetect it. I think you must have experienced the excpetion, rather than the rule, with your camera.
I was always intrigued by Linux. Like OS-X, just the fact that it is Unix makes it something at least worth trying.
The first distro I was exposed to was my friend's RedHat. My, my, my! How impressive! What a surprise! A FREE Unix?! And everything was smooth and perfect and just worked. Uptimes as long as you wanted. Everything was just nice. And this was back in 1997! Of course, my friend wasn't just another newbie. To me, he was almost like a hacker.
Within a couple of months, I ordered Caldera. I never got it to run quite as well.
In the mean time, I kept seeing things talking about Slackware, but didn't bother.
I kept using Windows. But in the back of my mind, I knew I wanted to unleash myself from the grasp of Redmond.
I went through Corel, SuSe, RedHat/Fedora, and back to Slackware.
Corel was very impressive. And, as an established software maker, they had the potential to create a lot of powerful software for Linux. Micro$oft saw the writing on the wall and came calling. The minute they started talking to Micro$oft, Corel became a footnote in history.
SuSe was also very impressive. The work they do is incredible. Unfortunately, I kept trying to use RedHat until they started doing funny things with Enterprise versions and public versions and such. In my mind, if you want to be open, be open.
I've now had Slackware running on my machine for two years straight and find it very worthwhile in cleanliness, security, ease of manageability, and downright stability. It took a while to get used to, but the payback has been worthwhile in the end.
The only place where I REALLY won't use Windows is at a LAN party. It's like asking politely to be raped. Even if you have the latest patches and what not, at a LAN party there is always some war3z-shithead full of troyans, viruses, spyware, worms... whatever... I often end up cleaning their computers.. :( .. If you need to browse the windows network use LinNeighborhood.
There's a really good Windows remote desktop client for Linux called rdesktop. It connects to XP's Desktop Sharing and 2003 Server. In my experience it's been rock-solid.
As far as the IE-only intranet pages are concerned, it is possible to coerce IE into running in Wine, but the easier and far more sensible solution would be to redesign the intranet pages, focussing on cross-compatibility.
Actually, configuration aside, learning Linux tends to be easier... the Control Panel can be dangerous.
Yes, it is a double-edged sword. But as you said, configuration on Linux may be more difficult precisely because it doesn't have a centralized configuration mechanism. But if you do have to venture into those .xyz and .conf files on Linux, that is MORE dangerous than Control Panel because you don't have a UI to protect you from deleting files, entries, entering invalid data, etc. In Linux, a configuration file is just a file, but in Windows configuration is abstracted into... configuration. Granted, modern Linux distros have UIs on top of their configuration, but there is no ONE Linux "control panel", but there is for windows.
burning CDs (easier with Gnome than Windows)
The operating system makes it easier? First of all, I'd have to say Windows makes it pretty darned easy: you drag'n'drop your files to the CD, then say "Write these files to the CD". Perhaps the default way of doing it with Gnome is easier, I don't know, but I've never really thought it could be easier without implementing mind reading.
emailing digital pictures (again, easier with Gnome than Windows' shoddy digital camera support).
I'll just leave the details of this subject to the other replies and say that you hast have found a rare exception to the norm with your digitasl camera.
Take something like Word (and OpenOffice is guilty of the same thing).
... with all the issues that it has ... at least lets you create a document quickly that looks good, and it is reasonably enjoyable to use. Maybe it is all in the head, but I feel that Windows blocks creativity. Pages is very immature at the moment, but assuming that its development continues in the same way then I think it will get very good, and I think that it has a good way of working for the most part.
Firstly, the preferences/options are splattered all over the place.
Secondly, it is always popping up the help sidebar, and various other things.
Thirdly, it is just frustrating to use. There is no enjoyment there. When all you need to create is a document, then to be honest bloody Wordstar would be enough, and I think that Word in particular has forgotten that its primary task is to create documents. Now Pages
I rarely get issues with Windows crashing. Finder crashes a lot for me when the system goes to sleep with an attached Firewire hard drive - that is annoying.
I read recently that when a person is disrupted from their task, it can take them 10-20 minutes to get back into that task because of the disruption (out of 'the zone'). Whenever Windows or Windows applications get in my way, that is a disruption. Whenever clippy (yes, I know it is disableable) or help or something alters MY DESIRED screen layout that is a disruption. Just think - one disruption an hour isn't much, but it could be costing a company 1/6th to 1/3rd of its employees time. Of course the same goes for phone calls, invasive IM or Mail applications (i.e., popping something up on the screen rather than discretely making a quiet noise or increasing an unread mail icon somewhere) and the manager wandering around being annoying.
Oh, and for a person like me, you can't beat having Unix underneath.
I haven't got Linux installed in my mother's computer nor my sister's nor
my grandfather's nor my dog's computer. Nor will
I ever, as I fail to see just how would that help them OR me...
This is just stupid... "Heyyy I just got a Joe something from out of space,
using Linux... Hooray!"
There's a difference between having geek interests and looking like a
sociopath, a zealot or a just damn fool.
Get a life!
BTW, I'm writing this from a MS Windows computer (in which I do my actual
everyday work, and has been running smoothly for like two years. It has all
the tools I need to work (emacs, eclipse, ghc, hugs, jdk, python and perl),
it never got any kind of spyware or viruses and only once or twice has
crashed on me), which is running behind a Linux gateway which having been
installed at the same time all the other machines were, means it has been
running smoothly as long as the Windows machines (~2 years).
The point is you can do your work and keep a perfectly stable running system
with minimum work if you know a little about how to keep the system
that way (in any OS), and have a little common sense.
When it comes down to it, the choice is just a matter of preference and/or
need. There isn't a universal truth that X is better than Y.
So just stop the childish articles.
I'm an MVP who's becoming more disenchanted with MS the farther I go - I've been in the business for a buncha years and probably still have a copy of Windows 1.0 somewhere. I *know* I have a copy of Windows 2.0 ;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)
I have a lot of experience with Microsoft OS - and just like with Linux, if you can't get Windows to do something it's probably a training issue. Sad, but true - I wouldn't expect a full-time Mac or Linux user to be able to install tricky hardware; but then I wouldn't expect the average Windows user to do it on a Linux box either
My Windows XP machines accumulate *way* more continuous uptime than my Fedora Core 4 server does but I think a lot of that has to do with the bleeding-edge nature of the Fedora project. I think sometime soon I may take a long weekend and roll off Fedora completely. I expect a server to run at least four nines' uptime and don't know anyone running FC4 who's getting anywhere near that.
One of the problems with the open source community is lack of UI standardization - and like it or not, *most* programmers couldn't design a UI if their life depended on it. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not where their skills lie. I do know that with an unfamiliar application on a Windows box I can generally navigate pretty well - but I think the Lunix community still has a lot of work to do in the 'look and feel' arena.
I also think that marketing Linux or OS X as being malware-free does a disservice to the computing community at large - as I think users really need to take some responsibility for data security. As it is now most users will give you a blank look if you ask them when they last backed up their data
Some people want stuff to just work - last week a friend wanted a first computer for her almost-80-year-old father and I suggested she go out and buy an eMac. Dad is pretty happy and although he hasn't selected an Internet provider yet he's happily printing documents to the printer connected to his AirPort - and he configured the AirPort and the printer all by himself
Anyway, I figure if it works, use it. Apple and Microsoft both have some work to do to get the user experience where it needs to be (although Apple is probably closer, Wintel's got all the applications). IMO Linux still has a long way to go.
For most folks computers aren't hobbies, they're appliances. I don't particularly want to learn the underpinnings of my refrigerator - I just want it to keep my food cold
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
i am *not* a Mac user, but this is mainly because mac are expensive, but i saw this project named fink : http://fink.sourceforge.net/ , maybe printers who work under cups work under mac os ?
When fiction hits reality, dreams have no air-bag.
i'm deducting that there is a serious need for ... :P ... but you got the
information on how easy it is to migrate to linux
(because the page was slashdoted so fast).
so if you should stumble across this tiny post,
yes linux is free! you can pick up any distro
at any "copy shop" where you would pick-up your\
illegal copy of windows. it would be nice tho
if these copy shops would dedicate a bit more
space to the linux section
i've "used", well installed linux over 7 years
ago for the first time. no problem but all
i knew was "cd" and "dir" so it was pretty
quickly replaced again by win95. but always trying
to optimise my internet experience, i never really
gave up on linux. see apache, squid, sendmail.
it's a feeling like jumping even further back into
the history of the internet to a time before the
explosion of the port 80 (web).
for me a windows computer with a valid ip address
and connected to the vast internet somehow
always feels like a dumb terminal or a console
ms never toke it very seriously. of course
coming from a modem and bbs background i was
experimenting with trumpet and NCSE mosaic on,
yes! windows work groups!
for the day to day surfing i still use xp. but
now i know everything goes thru a real kick-ass
internet gateway computer that is running suse
linux.
configuration is pretty straight forward. if you
read slashdot alot there shouldn't be a problem
to read thru some *.conf files on linux. also
YAST is a good approximation to the windows
"config panel".
i'm pretty happy with my linux server and i have
the good feeling that i have one main computer that is
genuinly "internet technology certified" and not
a "ev1l bot os" slowly trying to transform the
internet to "global msnetwork".
there's is alot of information / help available
for a enormous array of free programs for linux.
don't think you'll learn everything in a week or
a month for that matter. is is slow process,
if you're a win user and non-geek. but if you
dedicate some time every day, you'll slowly get
a much bigger understanding about computers and
networks and a much more powerfull os.
end note: a basic desktop model computer on which
you decide to install linux will have a gui and
internet access in the same time it takes you to
install windows. maybe the resolution won't be
what it could be tho
tools (browser and network working).
happy installing and configuring!
bash: if you don't like ms and are stupid, buy a
apple (see!$$$ again!)
Standard Windows install size, isn't it?
Oops - that's just Notepad - sorry...
Actually I think that having a feature work as you expect it to is quite an important thing. I'm not saying that all the features in Windows or Office don't work, just that one or two important features can be a real bear to work with - for example, tables in Word.
/± key*! Wtf use is that? I think I'll remap the to be # soon.
I don't know many people myself that actually use toolbar icons. Best option is to remove the toolbars completely and have more screen estate, and maybe just one custom toolbar with the features you actually do want quick access to (bring up styles window/sidebar, etc).
Oh, and don't get me started on the idea of hiding uncommonly used items in menus. I know you can disable it. That is a disruption, as I mentioned in another post. That, and Microsoft's useless UK keymap which doesn't have many foreign characters at all (many of which are used in the English language too). Not that Apple's UK keyboard is winning here, requiring you to press alt-3 to get # - on a laptop that is quite a contortion. Never mind that the # isn't even printed on the keyboard. Yet there is a
* Slashcode might remove the first character. It is a character that looks like an S with a circle in the middle, or one S above another slightly.
Sheesh people, Stop complaining about windows. Really, What else are you going to use? I use two kinds of windows - one on my laptop and one on my desktop. My desktop makes windows for me, and I can change between them by hitting ALT-. The only down side was that it didn't have enough windows, so I had to follow some instructions and make some more.
/. have a tear about this?
My laptop is even better. It makes all the windows I could want, whenever I ask it to. I just hit COMMAND-N.
You guys make it sound like your windows do bad things trying to make windows. I think you should get a different version of windows. I got my laptop's windows from www.apple.com, and my desktop windows from www.redhat.com. I had some other windows from www.sun.com, but I just beat those windows with a hammer, yesterday.
set novice off
How many times can
-- t. q. tickell
Things are not as tragic as you say. There may be occasional problems, but not as tragic as you describe. As I long time Windows user, I can tell you that it's a nice operating system, and it is stable as a rock, provided you have good stable drivers.
I have no virus problems because I use Firefox and Thunderbird.
I have plenty of open source programs to do my job.
I can run the latest games.
Using toolbars is not really a problem. Fitts Law exists, but it certainly is not a very serious problem in Windows (if a problem at all), because nowadays screens are big and clear and the usual mode of operation is with Windows maximized (so as that tool buttons like 'save' are almost at the same place for most apps).
I also don't have a problem with Office bloatness, because I only use what I need.
I haven't used OS X, but I have used Mac OS 7, both on real machines and under emulation. There are some nice features in there (like being able to move an installed application to whatever place I want), but nothing too serious that can actually be a reason for moving on Mac.
Just a thought.
It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives.
How about zero? I can do every thing the author wnt on about in this article in Linux.
It all has to do with what you are used to. When I have to switch "cold-turkey" to Windows I feel like my arms have been chopped off. And I am not even talking about console apps here... I am talking about the inability to do simple things like right click on a web link and click "Copy To.." and browse to a FTP site.
You can hardly compare Mac OS 7 to Mac OS X. That's like comparing Windows 3.1 to Windows Vista!
The issue with Fitt's Law isn't the location, it is the size. Apart from the fact that I hate full screen windows anyway (why bother with a windowing system!). It is a lot harder to hit a 24x24 pixel icon that isn't on a screen edge than it is to hit an 80x20 Menu heading that is on a screen edge. I don't think you understand the issue. It'd be okay if Office 2004's 'Large Icons' option actually had clear icons, but it just scales up the default 24x24 (?) icons. At least it gives a larger area to aim for though.
As I said before, my issues with Windows aren't to do with stability, virii or spyware. It is just that it is not a nice environment to work under. It is quite common for people that haven't experienced better to deny to themselves that something better can exist. Did you ever use AmigaOS in the early 90's? If you did, then you'll understand what a step back Windows was to many people in terms of usability. Mac OS X is, to me, an OS with excellent usability.
- Driver support. While most chips work, they don't take advantage of most advanced features of most cards. 3D sound, surround sound, even tone controls are missing with most boards.
- Sound APIs. There are numerous, incompatible sound APIs. It is, as far as I can tell, impossible to develop an app for Linux that uses sound but doesn't conflict with other components of the system. Many desktops use a sound server, like arts or esd. If you run, say, a game, hopefully there aren't any beeps within 2 seconds of the game opening the sound device, else it will be busy(unless you have a sound card with a hardware mixer, that is supported in linux with a driver that properly handles said hardware mixer - ie. unless you have a SB Live).
Alsa was supposed to be the be all end all of sound on Linux. It has failed, miserably. We still have no software mixing fallback for cards lacking hardware mixing. Direct Sound has had this for... like 7 or 8 years.
The only thing Alsa offers to handle software mixing is dmix, which is just slightly more than worthless. It doesn't even work for most apps that use the Alsa API. Configuring it to work right is also absolutely out of the question for 99% of Linux users. The information you will find on google will quite likely leave you with tinny sound or awful skipping.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
It is well documented that Apple is using the wild success of the iPod to drive interest in their other products, namely the Macintosh and OS X. This is the first case I've seen of someone buying a new PC because of an iPod...
Use Rename 1-4a and you won't have to spend hours renaming. One of the best freeware utilities out there. It's a bit cryptic to use, but there's a good help page. Of course, you're comfortable with Linux, so cryptic should fit right into your lifestyle.(By cryptic, I mean "makes no sense to the new user")
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
It's pretty obvious this guy hasn't used Linux in five years, if at all.
/mnt/hdb/windows/. My MP3s were in C:\sound\samples\ so in Linux they were in /mnt/hdb/windows/sound/samples/.
I ran Mandrake for 2 years. Alas, it won't run on my newer box, so this is OLD stuff (Mandrake 8; they're up to what, 11 now?)
Why would I want to mount my CD? I expect to just put it in and it to be available.
I never mounted anything. Mandrake treated the CD like any other media. I assume KDE "mounted" it.
Take music for example. I want to play my mp3s.
Hurdle 1: I can't find them because they're on my WinXP/NTFS partition.
Which in my box was a Win 98 partition. In Linux it was at
The only "problem" was that they needed a separate playlist, since XMMS doesn't know back(ward) slashes. Two minutes in a text editor with a global replace of "\" with "/" fixed the "problem."
And if XMMS is running when you shut off the PC, it will be running with the same playlist when you start the PC back up.
Hurdle 2: I find my music player. Why won't it play my mp3's? Licence? What licence? I don't have to get a licence on my xyzfoobar player in Windows.
Perhaps because your "MP3s" are really WMAs? My MP3s are all ripped from CD, vinyl, tape, or downloaded from the internet. I have yet to see any MP3 with DRM.
In short, how the hell did that <strike>troll</strike>MS Shill get moderated "insightful?" It doesn't take but three functioning brain cells to see it's 100% false.
Actually I run my own company and have so for over 20 years.
I call my patch CTRL-S I just perform it every 1 second to make sure my WordPerfect... erm I mean word doc is still there when I type the next sentence.
psst you don't need the source code to fix things....
Heavy sigh.
1. I support lots of engineers who live and breath using VISIO for everything from network design to database design to charts for insertion into their power points and engineering specs.
Yes, there are special purpose products (Oracle Designer, S2000, Rational Rose) that they also use if their particular jobs call for the huge learning curve of each, but a general-purpose tool is also needed that crosses specialized boundries. (I got them to try Kivio. They laughed at me.)
2. My knowledge workers (who themselves work at more than 300 client companies) exchange not only complex documents, but support each other in doing basic things like small database creation, marketing document creation, and generating mail-merged business letters and proposals. Working with others using MS-Office looks like a more or less permanent reality. They can call each other for help, but those who really know MS provide nothing but grief to the Open Office users.
Unless we can "toggle on" an MS-compatible menu, the learning curves for individual tasks are just to great for too many.
For those who forgot the late 80's and early 90's, MS did just this when wooing the Word Perfect. When a former Word Perfect user got stuck, they could toggle to a more familiar menu structure, do the occasional, yet irksome task, and then toggle back. Eventually they embraced MS Word, but at their on pace and in their own time.
3. Drivers, drivers, and drivers for laptops. The clients are buying laptops. The clients bring the laptops back to their offices and use them as desktops. They plug in every conceivable brand (and non-brand) of scanner, printer, camera, wireless card, WIRELESS PRINTER (more than a few from Canon), etc. I don't want to talk to these people because they don't want to wait, pay for custom programming, or have long and frustrating calls with vendors. Their solution to resolving Linux driver problems? Have their tech wipe the disk clean and install windows. I KID YOU NOT.
In the 1980s and 1990's, Apple thought they could hide by focusing only on Educational, Graphic Arts, and Music companies where everyone in one area used Apple and no one cared that the accountants in the back used DOS, then Windows. Today, even though Apple offers a superior product, businesses are generally ignoring Apple while traditional Apple turf was long ago mostly overrun by Windows.
If we are to ever deploy Linux and Linux S/W for Office Working Masses, it will have to act like a product designed for the Office Working Masses who already have 10 to 20 years working with MS products and who are surrounded by the need to work with others in the MS space.
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
I've read through quite a few comments on this topic, and the following became immediately obvious. This isn't the first time I've noticed this, but it is certainly representative of Slashdot in general.
When Windows does something worse than Linux (security flaws), you guys are all over it. However when Windows does something better than Linux (desktop applications, ease of use, driver support, printer support, etc), you make excuses for Linux and attempt to work around it.
All this seems so familiar. It's like listening to kids bragging about their latest toy. Right now it's Windows vs. Linux, but not long ago it was Atari vs Commodore, Commodore vs Amiga, Amiga vs PC, Game Boy vs Game Gear. And it's not only about computers - I've seen a number of instances where people would go to great lengths to prove that Coke is better than Pepsi. Ultimately, get whatever suits your needs. My company uses all kinds of OS and computers, depending on what job must be done. It's a bitch to integrate various elements, but it's possible. It's certainly not something I'd argue over (though it kind questions the point of this post and now my head hurts, ow.)
For those of us in the sciences (biology, chemistry), there is still a lack of complete office suites that run well under linux. Some run. Some are office suites. In the olden days, even CambridgeSoft had a linux version of ChemOffice (around version 3 or so... they've just sent me beta 10). For those of us who work in fields that are specialized, we still need linux apps to make the switch. Wine doesn't do a good enough job (in my case, ChemOffice has been installing Microsoft .NET and Microsoft SQL server since version 9, try getting all of THAT working correctly).
I'll agree that I can get MOST of my work done, but there's some things that I just can't do in linux (revising a presentation, and having the luxury of just double clicking a scheme on a slide to change the substituents on a carbon...).
For the record, I have Debian Sarge on one of my home machines, in hopes of one day making it all work.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...despite all the freedom and independence that linux affords all you linux users out there, you don't need to be so snobby to the rest of us. It isn't that we're dumb or unimaginative...its just that we have other things to be smart and imaginative about and we don't want to be distracted by having to deal with Linux. If you like it, fine. That's your prerogative. But you don't have any place being indignant and snobby toward the rest of us. What we sacrifice in control and nuts and bolts access to our OS's, we gain in not having to think about our computers as anything more than a task-tailored tool for the other shit in our lives that's more important to us.
Well, the problem is that in this day and age what you don't know can kill you. It's a given that you can't know everything and in the end you have to depend on those who know things that you don't. So the questions then becomes who do you trust...those who are willing to show you how they get things done are those who hide they're methods from you? Just because you don't have the time or inclination to understand a thing doesn't mean that someone else does not, and if there is anything that I have learned from life it is that those who hide information do so only for their benefit, not for yours.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
This has been a test. Had this been a real emergency, we would have fled in terror and you would not have been informed.
Software developers have the freedom to sell you a service and profit from it by keeping you from having complete access to the design.
Keeping people from having access is not a freedom, its a power.
Also, not distributing the source is not keeping them from knowing the design, it only makes it a lot more work to discover it.
MS-Windows gets in the way by trying to be too damned helpful. Take the menus. Menu bloat (caused by feature bloat) in MS-Office caused MS to "hide" menu items that haven't been used recently. This causes the menu to change as you use different features; when forced to use MS-Office, I often have to hunt for the right menu item, and it's a pain in the ass, especially as the menus change.
Then, there's the whole "arrange start menu by vendor" paradigm, which is just fucked up to start with. I want my menus to be organized by type, rather like Gnome, KDE, and most other desktops. The problem isn't that I can't organize it (I can, and do); it's the thinking that led to that design in the first place gets in my way.
The thinking? Put businesses before the users.
This thinking makes itself apperant throughout the MS-Windows design, from the start menu organisation down to the menu layout and the little mini-dock on the (by default) right-hand side of the task bar.
System management is also a pain, with MS-Windows constantly auto-detecting new devices, whether you want it to or not, and whether it's detecting the correct device or not.
MS-Windows assumes it knows better than you about your own computer, and that provides a very unpleasant experience for many people. I don't like to be condescended to, by man *or* machine. Especially machine.
Yes, I know a lot of those complaints can be "fixed" by jumping through a lot of registry hoops, but the underlying philosophy is unfixable, because it is a problem with Microsoft, not just MS-Windows.
There are tons of other misfeatures, as well: file type is still determined by an arbitrary three-letter name suffix. MS-Windows and most Microsoft products play with other systems and documents only sullenly, if at all. Basically, Microsoft is out to *beat* everyone else, not *work* with everyone else, and it shows.
Of course, I don't use MS-Windows or any MS-Window-based product unless absolutely necessary, so my view might be biased. I just find the entire system painful to use in a fingernail-on-the-chalkboard way.
Anyway, that's all just a rant. Some people find MS-Windows a pleasure to use. Some people get off on facial defecation. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
- Tony
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
You can hardly compare Mac OS 7 to Mac OS X. That's like comparing Windows 3.1 to Windows Vista!
The issue with Fitt's Law isn't the location, it is the size. Apart from the fact that I hate full screen windows anyway (why bother with a windowing system!). It is a lot harder to hit a 24x24 pixel icon that isn't on a screen edge than it is to hit an 80x20 Menu heading that is on a screen edge. I don't think you understand the issue. It'd be okay if Office 2004's 'Large Icons' option actually had clear icons, but it just scales up the default 24x24 (?) icons. At least it gives a larger area to aim for though.
As I said before, my issues with Windows aren't to do with stability, virii or spyware. It is just that it is not a nice environment to work under. It is quite common for people that haven't experienced better to deny to themselves that something better can exist. Did you ever use AmigaOS in the early 90's? If you did, then you'll understand what a step back Windows was to many people in terms of usability. Mac OS X is, to me, an OS with excellent usability.
(and I posted this and got a confirmation of posting this about 30 minutes ago, and then Slashdot 'lost' it?)
You can always visit the samba web site to learn how to configure it on the command line. GNOME may have a config dialog for it as well. It would be wise to investigate the GNOME support before tinkering around on the command line.
I purchased a Multifunction Canon F50 -- thinking it would be supported in Linux. Now, my main desktop at home is in XP most of the time simply because I can not print to this machine under Linux and I can not share it under Windows. Nice prints, but one device preventing more use of Linux.
My experience has been that the average Windows users cannot even get Linux fully installed on an arbitrary older PC by himself in 10 days much less get comfortable with the operating systems. I've seen offices grind to a halt over changing one key program much less installing an operating system and all new programs.
Until San Andreas works really well. I NEED my gang-bangin' bro!
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Is there anything nearly as full featured for linux as Cool Edit Pro is for recording stuff on windows? Anyone have any suggestions as I recently moved to Fedora.
Best Trivia answer ever... Name the largest aquatic man eater... Contestant: Tsunami
I've quit cold turkey in the past and ended up having problems. Ultimately, I've given up windows for a mac with no issues. But I'm still forced to use windows at work!
Actually Win2k/XP do at least support wildcards when renaming. This allows you to massively rename stuff, although its not the most powerful method in the world.
example: 100 digital camera files, named DSCFxxxx (xxxx would be 0000 to 0100)
You could do
rename DSCF* Cats*
And it would only replace the DSCF portion of the filename.
gimp vs. photoshop? i'd say gimp wins hands down. that silly MDI (or is it SDI) is a bit klunky in gimp, but functionality, it seems level with photoshop.
The GIMP is extremely impressive for FOSS. I've been trying to use the GIMP for my all my photographic needs lately.
But without adjustment layers, I think GIMP poses absolutely no threat to Photoshop on the pro level, no matter what else the GIMP does or how much Photoshop costs.
Even with adjustment layers, it would be a tough fight for the GIMP anyway. Photoshop is a bargain by the (admittedly insane) standards of photo gear, it's got real tech support, it's frequently updated to work well with the latest digital cameras, it's got extensive color-management and calibration features, there are a million books and tutorials about it, there are tons of third-party plugins, it's extensively optimized and blazing fast, etc. It's state-of-the-art and the industry standard.
The GIMP is updated slowly, sluggish in operation (sometimes excruciatingly so), extremely quirky in UI and support, and frankly feature-poor by comparison. It's way more than the casual snapshooter (like me) needs, but I can see that it's not even close to competing with Photoshop.
So I took my machine home over the weekend and installed FC4 on it. I run Mandrake at home, but our whole dev team uses FC4. In order to have a common user-base, I thought I'd try it out. I have a 2nd disk in the machine, and installed it to it. I found an excellent step-by-step guide on how to do this. Of course, the FC4 installer screwed that up. It never asked me to create a boot floppy. So after installing, there was no way to get into Linux. After f'ing with it for about 1/2 hour, I thought maybe I missed that option during the install. Installed it again, same thing. Knoppix to the rescue. Booted in, created a boot file, copied it to the Windows drive, and all was good.
Then I bring it back into work this morning, and go to configure it with dual displays (I have dual 21" LCDs) I have configured dual displays before at home, and it wasn't too bad. Of course, with FC4 it just doesn't work. X config looks good, it just don't want to bring up the 2nd display. I prefer KDE, so I have that as my desktop. Then I notice that the Configure option is missing from my Kmenu. (the red wrench icon) It is just GONE. One minute it was there, the next it was just not.
I quit using Redhat after 7.3, because they started monkeying with everything. I hate bluecurve, but understand the need for it (in concept). But let me run straight KDE! All the other developers here use dual-displays, but they have Nvidia cards and use their dual-display software. Since I don't have an Nvidia card, and since I had used Xinerama before, I thought it would be a snap.
So now in order to get work done, I have to boot into Windows (and get around that ANNOYING login issue). Yay! I have 1 machine with 2 crippled OSes installed on it. I prefer to use Linux so I will eventually get it working and have it be my main OS (running XP via VMWare). But I can't imagine being unfamiliar with Linux and trying to get it working and usable. At least I have a chance of getting Linux working the way I want, I have given up on Windows.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Sure, Microsoft come off as a$$es because of it, but in the end when your kids learn to type papers in Microsoft Word, it all pays off for them.
I really fail to see where the payoff is for the kids to learn computing in an homogenous environment (be it Microsoft, Apple or whatever). In fact such a thing does a great disservice to our children--especially if they are interested in pursuing a technically-oriented career path. Yes, MS monopolises the desktop, but the reality is that a large majority of corporate computing environments are heterogenous. Small-to-midsized enterprises seem more likely to be all-MS but once a company is large enough it outgrows such a setup and you end up with UNIX, Linux, AS/400 etc running enterprise apps. Unless you are doing a McJob like janitor or assembly line operator you're almost certain to encounter some non-MS application--an AS/400 green screen, or a Java-powered application, or a corporate intranet.
This "Coke/Pepsi exclusivity" analogy is crap too. We are not talking about sugar water here--these are products that keep our modern economy running and are part of our childrens' education. Using the exuse that a heterogenous software environment might cause reliability problems is a hideously bad excuse for MS or any softare company to use to lock in schools (or any other customers). Fix your damn stuff instead MS! The reality is other software exists and you MUST play well with others.
BTW, just becasue Coke and Pepsi play such games does not mean it is OK for MS to do it (or even that Coke and Pepsi's activities are appropriate). I happen to be against exclusivity-for-funding deals in public schools--I pay education taxes to fund public schools and if those schools cannot run on that funding they should look at cutting costs, or raising more money through taxes or community fundraising activities or maybe forego taxpayer money altogether and become private schools. Hell, I'm not even all that keen on putting pop and junk-food vending machines in schools at all. If the kids bring that stuff to school or go off-campus at lunch to get it that is fine, but it kind of sets a bad example for schools to push it to the kids just to get a fancy new scoreboard for the gymnasium.
I mean lately? I've installed 3 video cards in the last year (in different machines). None required any effort to get windows to recognize it. Remove driver. Put in card. Download driver. Install driver. DONE.
/etc? or /usr/etc? or /usr/local/etc? /usr/share/etc? Maybe /usr/local/lib? It's a complete mess on Linux, far worse.
Yes, I can stop Real Player from launching at startup. Although honestly, I just don't install Real. It sucks. Are there no programs for Linux that suck?
Completely removing software? Microsoft has worked VERY hard at this. All Windows programs must have an installer and an uninstaller before they get the Windows logo. That's more than I can say for Linux or Mac OS. Sometimes the uninstaller doesn't work perfectly, it's true. But MS has given it a lot of effort. Say... how do you remove a Linux program without leaving turds behind? Maybe they're in
As to "for dummies". If you have read any dummies book you know it's nothing like a man page. Explain to me how you learned to run vi from the man page, go ahead.
No, things aren't as simple as they can be in Windows, but they're pretty simple. Configuring multiple email accounts? With different spam filters for every account? That's not a normal thing to do, so of course the answer isn't simple. The way you simplify is by making the common things simple. The uncommon things (like not showing the taskbar) should be hidden a bit so they don't confuse the user using the simple case.
The dumping icons thing is way out of control on Windows. You have to regularly clean out the system tray and desktop. And machines come with like 30 icons on the desktop.
But all being said and done, Windows is a lot easier to learn and use than Linux. By a long shot. Microsoft has worked hard to make it so. They haven't won the war, there's definitely still stuff that isn't easy. But after the huge success of Win95 they know it's their big competitive advantage and they'll work hard to stay there.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I think that it is very hard to shake your first GUI out of your head. Me? I like the close button on the left, but I'd rather have the min and max buttons on the right. Why? Amiga OS. Of course, Apple-Q is quicker for quitting, Apple-M for minimising, Apple-, for Preferences and so on, and Maximise on Mac OS X is rather odd being more of a Resize Around Content than anything else.
Minimisation is pretty clear to me. Minimised windows are below the divider in the dock, and have a representation of the window with a small icon of the application super-imposed. File Open/Save is very nice however (the whole idea of attaching dialogs to windows in Mac OS X is brilliant, no floating modal dialogs, etc), unlike the Windows dialog - remember how long it took Microsoft to create a resizable File Open/Save dialog?!
Now people have different tastes, but
dirt-potay-stem.
MS is daying you can have our software cheap/free if you don't use any other.
There's absolutely nothing to stop the school sticking Linux, OpenOffice and Gimp on every desktop in the place and then popping off down to their local PC store and buying a copy of windows and office for each machine as well - except it costs more.
So we have three alternatives.
Open Source only - Free
MS only - Cheap
Mixed - Horribly expensive
I'm not actually sure what you can complain about here. If cost were the only issue, then surely MS wouldn't get a look in. They have perceived value over the Free alternative.
I'm sure MS isn't too happy that it's competition doesn't actually require paying, have to hit any release windows, nor provide any support if they have a hangover or are in a bad mood.
As soon as Windows has a way to keep everything up to date as easily as 'apt-get update' let me know, and I might consider it for low maintenance workstations. I can prety much guarantee that I spend a lot less time admin'ing my wife and kids Linux workstations than I'd do if they were windows.
(And they're using some oh-so-clever vibrantmedia intellitxt hotlinked adwords scheme, which had me momentarily afraid that my computer had been -- impossibly -- infested with some adware, until I realized it's an all-JavaScript solution, oh joy. Yet Another Reason to leave JavaScript turned off, I guess. [But yes, I'll be 127.0.0.1'ing vibrantmedia.com and itxt.vibrantmedia.com in my hosts file right away.])
Thank you for having the sense to take my word as intended. So often people misinterpret or choose to be offended. Thank you for being a reasonable person and assuming the best intentions in my post. I do appreciate it. And, as I said in my earlier post, it was not intended for you specifically. Rather, it was intended for those that don't know that being a monopoly is not illegal. Thank you for the kind response.
There is one Linux "Control Panel", it is not a GUI, it is called /etc/. All configuration can be done there. It is easier than registry hacking in Windows.
Most "well bevahed" linux programs put their config there, but not all. Just as not all Windows programs store there configuration in the registry.
But I would not say it's "easier" to hack. It depends on what you mean by easy. Its easy in that any text editor can edit one of those text file. But it also gives you no protection in editing it. You may very well put "false" when it expected "no". If you're lucky, there's comments in the file to read, guiding you to correct values, but nothing forcing you to follow them
The registry is only slightly better. It has rudimentary data types. But you may still enter a decimal integer type and be out of the range the program that wants to use that number intends. And you cans till export to and import from files if you prefer using a text editor
The thing about the Control Panel is that it provides a contextual UI, and since its an application, it can validate data meaningfully. Such UIs exist for other configurations, too, and not necessarily even a GUI (may be a console based interactive UI -- that's what the James Mail Server does for user management by default).
So, I'm not sure what your point was. If its that files are easier, then that depends on what ease you're talking about. The Control Panel (and even the registry) are abstractions on top of raw data that provide some level of protection, but at the same time, take away your liberty of manipulating that data as you see fit. It's a double-edged sword.
So in your signature, you state 200GB is not enough. Are we to believe that all 200GB is work related? 200GB is just my pr0n! Which is pretty good considering I only have a 80GB hard drive! :P
I can't decide. There are so many things wrong in the article, like
'GUI (general user interface)'
'Kernal is an acronym for "Keyboard Entry Read, Network And Link" '
and he doesn't know the difference between "content" and "contempt" or "array" and "foray".
When he expressed surprise that there should be a Linux user-group in Seattle, I was sure it was a joke, but who can tell?
He might just be from overseas (his use of English is non-American).
Linux does everything it says it will do--it is ROCK stable, supports a wide variety of hardware (provided drivers exist--either from the manufacturer or from the community at large), and does a lot of what Windows can do. Open Office is an adequate solution for working with documents, spreadsheets and presentations, albeit slow. Other applications aren't bad--Evolution needs some work yet, though.
HOWEVER...... There isn't a good replacement for Access, you can't work with documents or spreadsheets with embedded macros/VB Code without Microsoft Office..(and how many of your Power Users just LOVE to show off and use it.). IE is a necessary evil for some web applications. So..what do we do? We use Windows.. Lock down the desktops using Group Policies..don't let the users have too much power (if you can avoid it..some poorly written software requires admin rights..*sigh*. Make the users user Mozilla for anything that doesn't require IE.
All in all..you can make windows WORK. In the ensuing years since the release of Windows 2000, and supporting several hundred clients for different companies, I can count on one hand the number of problems that have NOT been caused by poorly written software. Yes, some of our clients happen to have software that requires Administrator rights (ugh..)..Those are the ones that are problem children--mostly with spyware and the end-users having the unfathomable desire to answer 'Yes' to every question that pops up on their desktop.
I don't have a lot of experience with OSX---only one of our clients uses it, but it looks ok, and never gives us any problems. In Summation--use what works best in your environment. It's all up to the Admins.
In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
I love how I'm being modded troll on this one. I'm a troll because I said MS office docs dont open well in OO and I need that for my job? Wow... just wow. Get a fucking life you twats, does it really ruin your day THAT much when someone dares to say a microsoft product might be neccesary in some person's life?
Remember the 'Risk' games we played as kids. We maneuvered around until we had an unbeatable lock on more and more of the playing board until the opposition was simply suffocated! That is micro$$$ now. They have an enormous pile of dollars to buy acquiescense from politicians, silence from critics, gag orders from judges, outrageous patents from bought and paid for laws enabling bought and paid for patent officials....and the list goes on. They are just playing 'Texas Holdem' high stakes poker with our society and our economy. This is not 'capitalism', mister; this is corporate oligarchism pure and simple. It is a monopoly seeking increasing control over all our daily lives.
Explain to me how you learned to run Gedit, Kate or OpenOffice Writer from the man page.
No? You learned from other docs? Me too. Some even free. Yes, you can learn to run Word from the help files that come with Word, just like you learned these other programs with the docs that came with them.
But none of that is the same as the dummies books. Dummies books don't list command switches in alphabetical order just because it's simple. They explain the minimum to get by, and in order of importance.
See, you just lump all documentation together, not seeing that there is reason for other kinds of documentation and support than what comes with the software. GNU understands this, and Cygnus has made money this way.
You just go much too far in saying that Windows is the only program some people can't figure out how to run without some extra documentation.
I never said the writer of the vi man page wasted their time. Although I'll say it now. The vi man page sucks, it is a waste. But it is the exception. Most man pages explain some useful info, even if it isn't enough to really know how to use the tool completely.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
You can hardly compare Mac OS 7 to Mac OS X. That's like comparing Windows 3.1 to Windows Vista!
True, but I had to say the real experience I have with Macs. But the Mac OS interface's general trend has not changed though: the main menu bar is still on top, for example.
Apart from the fact that I hate full screen windows anyway (why bother with a windowing system!)
But the most important thing with GUIs is to have as much information on the screen as possible...that means maximized windows, and using alt-tab or mouse to navigate them. It's actually pretty quick. And Fitt's Law fits nicely with maximized windows + taskbar: the taskbar is like the Mac menu: a standard place for changing apps.
It is a lot harder to hit a 24x24 pixel icon that isn't on a screen edge than it is to hit an 80x20 Menu heading that is on a screen edge
From my experience, I don't have any problem hitting any icon anywhere. And where is Fitt's Law for toolbars? Mac Apps have toolbars, don't they? they are obviously not on the edge of the screen.
It is just that it is not a nice environment to work under.
Actually you just follow the general /. trend of bashing Windows and you have absolutely no concrete example of how Windows is bad.
Did you ever use AmigaOS in the early 90's? If you did, then you'll understand what a step back Windows was to many people in terms of usability.
Ha ha ha! bullshit, my friend. I had an Amiga 500 with Kickstart 1.2, then went onto kickstart 1.3, then onto 2.0, then onto 3.0 with Amiga 1200. I also had a hard disk, and that environment still lives inside my PC in UAE. So, as a fairly knowledgeable Amiga user, let me tell you about its pros and cons about the Amiga's GUI:
Advantages:
Disadvantages:
None of the Amiga's supposed advantages where of any importance anyway...but the manual management of icons in WB was a problem, as well as the way of switching applications.
Mac OS X is, to me, an OS with excellent usability
I never said that it is not. I never even said that Mac OS X is not the best UI. All I am saying is Windows is not far behind in usability. Let's not forget some things:
It is good to have the main menu bar on top. It is on a screen edge, which means that the mouse cursor stops when you hit it, giving the menu bar effectively an infinite vertical height, great for Fitt's Law. The Apple menu item has infinite dimensions to the top and to the left. When the menu bar is UNDER the titlebar of the application, you lose this. Also I remember a time when the Windows taskbar, despite being at the edge of the screen, had a one or two pixel margin meaning you couldn't do this!
You use the dock to switch applications in Mac OS X. That or standard things like command-tab or shift-command-tab and so on.
Yes, having information on the screen is useful, but sometimes it is handy to have applications side by side, for example. Also, as another example, I've found that transparency is good - a transparent terminal window in Mac OS X allows you to read text through it, great for having a website with instructions on which you are following. Yes, you can have transparent windows in Windows, but Vista will be required to bring them up to (and beyond) the level in Mac OS X currently (per pixel transparency, not per-window).
Mac apps have large icons in their toolbars, and only the essential ones. Windows applications tend to have multiple icons in the toolbar, they're 24x24 pixels which is slower to hit'n'click than 48x48 pixels, and until you are familiar with the GUI half the icons are hard to decipher anyway - better off learning the keyboard shortcuts, which are listed in the menus. Your point about keyboard shortcuts is valid however - because of the DOS ancestry, keyboard shortcuts were always a necessity, and it carried through to Windows, and they are the best way to do things quickly. However Mac OS X has now caught up and overtaken windows in this regard - just by a little bit.
I've used Windows since 1994, I just don't like it. Maybe the issues I have with it are fine for you, but I get irked by things like poor filesystem layout, poor file requestors, cluttered interfaces, networking, the feeling I'm not in control, yet having to mollycoddle it and so on.
I also had an Amiga 500 and a 1200. The problems you are describing are in an OS that was written in the 80's - at least you could place icons where you wanted them (instead of having a fixed grid layout and fixed sizes and so on), at least the menu bar also doubled as the status bar (and oh no, having to press RMB, how awful). To select an application, you clicked on it and brought it to the front - application navigation wasn't brilliant (hey, 2MB RAM in the A1200 remember, how many are you running? 3 or 4?) but it worked. Bloating workbench wouldn't have been a good idea in my book, although it would have been nice to have a menu of running applications for quick selection.
As regards you points, I always thought that Mac OS was naff. It is only Mac OS X that has got me interested in the platform. And stop bringing up the mouse issue, because IT ISN'T AN ISSUE. New users can't use two buttons, I'm sorry but it is true. If you've ever dealt with someone who is new to computers, assuming they know left-from-right anyway, they don't get why you have two buttons for a while. Apple's mouse is great for them, they can just whack it and it does stuff, it is accessible. Advanced stuff is easily accessible anyway using the ctrl key, or by attaching (shock horror) a two+ button mouse. In terms of usability, having an application designed to be fully usable with one button is great in my opinion, with the much rarer options relegated to being a little bit more effort (well, your non-mousing hand is on the keyboard anyway, it isn't hard to press ctrl is it?). As regards to your driving example, maybe the left and right mouse buttons should be on the floor as pedals?
I do agree that a good desktop operating system should be usable without a mouse at all (assuming knowledge of the shortcuts, of course!), and fully by keyboard navigation. Mac OS X still has an issue with tabbing to GU
Yes, As much as I, myself would hate to say it, Windows is a must in one way or another... eventually, you'll need it for something, whether you want that so much needed UT frag, or just enjoy all those unique and always entertaining error messages that always seem to take hours out of your day while you try to fix the problem.
Working to make this world a darker place...
Talk about usability! I remember having to spend 5-10 minutes just configuring my network settings after installing XP so this was a definite delight in my eyes.
I have never had to configure the network in XP after the install, unless I was making very specific changes, even if I was using a static IP. It all happens during the install, same as with linux.
You're my boss?
You use MSExchange to format your letters? Form makes up for what's missing? You like HTML in your e-mail? Or were you talking about the overkill in using MSWord (or, as is common in Japan, MSExcel) to format your dead-tree letters?
Do you realize the trouble I go through to scrape useable information out of your letters? (MiSuse of XML.)
You use MSExcel to tally your spreadsheets? Do you realize how much overhead is in the average MSExcel spreadsheet? Do you realize how much time it takes me to keep the data extraction tools tuned to the constantly evolving content of those spreadsheets so I can get the tallies out of the spreadsheets and into the database? Do you realize the loops VB makes me jump through in the process?
Do you know how much time you spend keeping your database alive, accessible, and consistent when users of real databases don't think about it because the maintanence cost is not there?
Wait.
Was that a subconscious turn of phrase, keeping the database alive, accessible, and consistent, or are you just tweaking me?
I think you're just tweaking me.
Modifying Linux RARELY has to do with modifying the source code. The EXACT same holds true with Windows. In other words, tuning performance and removing/adding belts and other extra stuff can be done through external programs or simply REMOVING clutter on both OSes.
even the acronmy stands for wine is not an emulator. but seriously all its has to do is reimplement function calls that take the same parameters and produce the same result, on the same achitecture. Its not as if there is a totally distinct layer of abstraction needed.
However, as it could be seen as Flamebait, I've Meta-Modded neutrally.