Israel has been doing this for years, and is one of the largest producers of new technology in the world! Maybe to expect a child who has been dumbed down by TV for 13 years to pick a carrier, is ridiculous. Don't forget that by the time our grand-parents graduated high school most of them went directly into the work force.
We aren't really talking about muslims or jews, we are talking about historical objectivity. If anyone can provide a more objective account of what happened, and the amount of religious persecution, it would be the Jews, who were caught in the middle. What do you think is worse to be a 'dhimmi' under the Arabs, or to be Killed and/or raped by the Christians. Christianity had a policy of convert or die, the Muslims ( of that time ) gave a 3rd choice at least.
All world powers were imperialistic, the western world considers Rome and Greece, to be cultured and respected, even though they were Just as bad if not worse than the Muslims. But some how Muslims are they only ones who we see as intolerant and violent, this isn't a uniquely Muslim quality. It's also true that today they are the biggest perpetrators of open intolerance and voilence
Look I'm not defending the Muslims, or playing the victim card for them, I'm saying that the christians were just as bad (if not worse ) at the time. I'm sure that both sides are stretching the truth, both have a history of doing so.
the Crusades aren't a clear-cut situation of "Christian aggresion" on traditionally Muslim territories.
It might not be a clear-cut case of aggression against Muslim territories, but it was clear, that there was "Christian Aggression" against non-Christians. And what about the peaceful Jews in their countries? The crusaders had a policy of removing heretics, including Jews who had nothing to do with the territorial conflicts.
The Crusades turned into campaigns of slaughter, rape, and pillage, and woe to the poor Jews in the way. Indeed, the Crusades mark the first large-scale mob violence directed against Jews which is going to become, unfortunately, the pattern for the next hundreds of years. The later pogroms are just going to be a repeat of this idea.
The Jews were not the only -- and in fact, not the primary -- victims of the Crusaders. Muslims were. If you're a student of Islamic history, you know that a large part of the reason why the Arab world is today the way it is has to do with the Crusades. All the brutality directed toward them devastated the Arab peoples economically, made the Arab world very closed, and contributed to Arab hatred of the West.
I may have quoted this before. ( also I don't agree with everything he says here ).
Admittedly, I am a little ignorant on current events, but where in the world are Christians victims of violence because of their religion ?
Don't get me wrong, I am in no-way I supporter of Muslim violence, I don't know if I can use strong enough language to convey how much I am against it. ( Also I disagree with the basis of their religion, but that is not the point here )
But I see a lot of Christians acting pompous, like their religion is so much better than Islam... Making sarcastically remarks about how it is called the "Religion of Peace." Christianity has a long history of violence and hatred, so they shouldn't think that they are in any position to claim that there is something inherently wrong with someone else's religion, something inherently wrong that causes it's followers to be violent. That was the purpose of my post here.
(BTW there are still plenty of hate filled christians today, to our great sorrow there are still groups like the KKK running around. Personally I have seen much hatred from the religion of love, you seem to be fortunate to live in an area where you are sheltered from this, or you are enough inline with their thinking that they can find better targets. )
First, praying to a man on a stick, and a lack of moral accountability are archaic and incompatible with modern society. If you don't believe in a god with split personalities, then you believe in something other than Christianity. And that is why I'm not painting over 2G individuals with one brush, most of you are only calling your selves Christians cause that is what your fathers did, what percentage of the 2G actually believe this stuff? How many pray regularly ? How many refrain from premarital sex? How many believe that the earth was created in 7 days?.. Just cause you call your self a monkey and eat a banana doesn't make you a monkey, Just cause you call your self a christian and buy a tree for Dec 25, doesn't make you a Christian.
As for the whole Darwinism problem, I didn't say that all Christians had a problem with it, I just said that you don't see jews and muslims as upset about it.
I'm not sure I believe everything I read on wikipedia but...
The Crusades were a series of conflicts of a religious character which occurred in the years 1095-1291, most of which were sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom.[1] The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred "Holy Land" from Muslim rule and were launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia.[2][3]
"The difference is that Jews do not riot in the streets and murder if someone should wish to choose a different way," but Christians do, have you ever heard of pogroms, or witch hunts, or the spanish inquisition ( ok that one isn't such a riot in the street).
Now I may be uninformed, I don't follow the news and politics so much, but I have yet to hear of Muslims being upset by the teaching of Darwinisms in public schools. One might say that the cartoon of their profit wasn't a threat to their religious beliefs but rather an insult.
Look, I don't need to read any book about middle eastern cultures, I live here... where the threat of Muslim violence is much more real than where you are sitting ( I assume that because you mentioned that you needed a book to understand arab culture). It [violence] is for sure a problem, and I want it to go away more than you do, but I'm not buying all the "Christianity is so much more civilized" propaganda.
Honestly, I'm not an expert on Islamic history... but I do know that the Church had an additional motive in the crusades, to wipe out heretics ( read jews).
The Crusades turned into campaigns of slaughter, rape, and pillage, and woe to the poor Jews in the way. Indeed, the Crusades mark the first large-scale mob violence directed against Jews which is going to become, unfortunately, the pattern for the next hundreds of years. The later pogroms are just going to be a repeat of this idea.
The Jews were not the only -- and in fact, not the primary -- victims of the Crusaders. Muslims were. If you're a student of Islamic history, you know that a large part of the reason why the Arab world is today the way it is has to do with the Crusades. All the brutality directed toward them devastated the Arab peoples economically, made the Arab world very closed, and contributed to Arab hatred of the West.
Good point ( I thought I could let that slip by but you darn slashdotters are just to sharp).
Just a friendly reminder that historically speaking your ancestors are more likely to have been killed by a believer in the "Religion of Love" than the 'Religion of Peace"...
But then I'm not sure about how accurate that is any more , because the "Religion of Love" was better at preventing survivors...
Just a friendly reminder that historically speaking if your dead it is more likely you were killed by a believer in the "Religion of Love" than the 'Religion of Peace"
But then the "Religion of Love" says that non-believers, are dammed to eternal suffering (how loving)... I'm not 100% sure that "eternal suffering" includes reading comments on slashdot...
Historically, Christianity (the Religion of Love) has had ONE dark spot on it's otherwise mostly peaceful existence, The Crusades.
One dark spot !? What about the Spanish inquisition, pogroms, blood libels, the KKK, 1st Crusades, 2nd Crusades, the 30 years war, 3rd crusades... the list goes on and on and on...
I don't know how accurate this list is, but worth a look for those whose intelligence is easily insulted.
Islam may be "be a religion of barbarism, tribalism and conquest," but when it comes to body count followers of that defector from Judaism got a much earlier start, and carried out their killings in a much more systematic method...
It should be clear that I wasn't equating the 2 religions, rather I was in-equating them, just to remind that the christians don't have any reason to be so self righteous, and think that they alone are responsible for "prosperous western society."
BTW... I don't quite see how your reminder was delivered in a friendly manner, proper to a lover of the "religion of love".
Freedom of religion, does not mean every one must be free from religion, but it does mean the freedom to be free from religion. Catch that.
I remember reading an article a while back about how jewish boys and muslim girls were being forbidden to wear their traditional head coverings in French schools. ( It doesn't matter if that is true or not) that is an example of imposed freedom from religion, everyone must be religion-less..
My whole point that in a secular school system there is no real 100% freedom of religion, because there always has to be freedom from religion, I'm sure the Jewish, and Muslim kids in secular US schools, don't feel so free about their religion when they are being taught X-mas songs, or when the school is closed for easter break, but they have to miss a week of school if they want to celebrate passover correctly ( sorry for my ignorance, I don't know much about Muslim holidays) .
Education is such a central part of serious religions, that the whole idea of a devout religious kid going to a secular school is nonsensical.
If you ask Jews if they think it's okay to blow yourself up with a bomb... 99.999% will say no.
WRONG!!!
100% will say no, it is against the Jewish religion to kill your self, no mater what the [perceived] benefit to society might be..
Christians (at least in the modern context) similarly don't generally kill somebody just because they refuse to convert to their religion. Things may have been different in historical times (the Inquisition, etc.) but it's not terribly fair to hold that against modern Christians.
Why not ? What have they done to payback all the muslims, jews, and others that they killed on their way to becoming "Modern". Now insted they use monetary incentives to convert impoverished people... this isn't much better..." Look heres the deal, if you abandon you culture, heritage, and religion, I'll give you enough food to live till tomorrow." At least the German government pays reparations to survivors ( This will in no way gain them forgiveness but it is better than nothing)...
"The Muslims, Jews, and Christians all believe in the same deity... apparently"
No we don't. The Jews and the Muslims believe in One G-D (Yishtabach Shmo). The Christians believe in some sort of half god half man, that impregnates women and can be killed by hanging on a cross. Naturally enough they'll deny that left, right and center, but like the holocaust, there are some thing which are indisputable.
And, before you go quoting sections of the Christian bible (Old Testament) which proscribe stonings or other violent actions, be aware it's not a fair comparison. You see, there are no Christians ACTUALLY PERFORMING THESE ACTS [Violence]. Christianity went through The Reformation, wherein it shrugged off many of these proclamations as archaic and incompatible with modernity. Islam has had no such event.
Maybe they got it out of their systems after slaughtering Muslims and Jews through out the years... See crusades and pogroms..
I'm not sure about this but aren't most advocates of the death penalty in the US, religious Christians? They didn't shrug it off, only made it "compatible with modernity".
Oh and if you think christians are so modern consider this: All 3 religions believe in creation as described in the Hebrew Bible... but Judaism and Islam do not consider Darwinism being taught in public schools as a threat to their religious beliefs. The whole christian religion is "archaic and incompatible with modernity."
And while they are at it, why not leave them selves at home. I mean there is no room for religion in secular schools ( not being sarcastic ). I maybe ignorant but aren't there Muslim schools for these Muslims to go to ? Most religious people have no place in the secularist educational system. Secularism is its own religion, with there own morals, and beliefs. I mean you wouldn't expect a muslim to get an education in line with his beliefs in a catholic school, why would he get a better education at a secularist school... If you want to force people to go to a school where they have to leave their religion at home, then your not a supporter of freedom of religion ( rather freedom from religion ), and thats ok, there are religious countries, where Muslims are free to practice there religion, and get a state sponsored education of their (inaccurate) history that they want. ( there are also no shortage of christian countries, and one Jewish country)
No, I didn't RTA (please excuse my avoidance of profanities), but :
similar problems are being encountered with lessons on the Crusades because these lessons contradict teachings from local mosques.
I can't see why the UK (England) would teach the crusades in contradiction to how the Muslims teach it.. I mean isn't there an agreement about proselyting aided by violence. Or are UK schools embarrassed about there heritage of slaughtering Muslims ( and jews ) who refused to accept that man on a stick as a god. I know I'm ranting here, but since when do christians have a right to claim that there hands are so clean, and the the Muslims are the only ones that slaughtered people in the name of religion...
I think this is just a ploy to try to shift the blame for the Holocaust, from European antisemitism to fanatical Muslim Jew-Hatred...
Ok that is the end of my pointless uninformed rant...
To see it any other way is to realize that life, itself, is ultimately futile and without purpose. And since the only thing left to do after that grand realization is to die, I think I'll stick with the personal pleasure attitude for a good while longer instead.
What about being a productive member of society ? With your approach to life what happens to treating other people with respect? "I'll treat people in whatever manner I want as long as it brings me pleasure." What is the reason to be a moral human being ?
Or do you define a moral human being as some one who doesn't get in the way of your pleasure. Even then you are forced to concern your self with the joy of others, and that the world is not purely here for your enjoyment.
People are part of this world as well? Is everyone on the face of the earth here for your enjoyment ? If so do they all know that ? What is your proof to them ? "I would be depressed if I thought the world was here for anything other than my enjoyment"!? How do you know the purpose of this world isn't to make Adol depressed? The sad state of this world is because people are letting there pleasure sensors make there moral decisions, be it is physical pleasure or the pleasure that comes from accomplishment or honor.
You can keep your Prorshe, your Foo Foo Coffee, and self centernedness, and I'll keep my Subaru and instant Coffee and idealism. At the end well do an accounting and see who's life was more of a success...
Sorry poor transliteration, Finjan is a little more accurate, or Dallah for another name.
Just cause you've never heard of it doesn't mean it isn't called that, unless maybe your an expert on semitic languages and cultures.
Also the link you provided is to an article written by some one who came from Russia to the US. I'm not sure why you would think she would be an expert on the names for the pot used to make coffee in middle eastern countries, and provide an exhaustive list of those names.
You mean you waste time with beans and water... I just snort some of that powdered coffee... don't worry the popping sound is just your blood-vessels constricting. I always carry some in a snuff box for when I need a fix.
I've never herd of putting milk in Turkish coffee ?...
The classic way to make Turkish coffee is in a fujuan (sp?), it is a small pot with a tapered opening... first you put in water ( about 6 or 7 oz ) and 1 tablespoon of sugar, add a pinch of Hawadg (sp?) (special blend of spices for coffee) or just Cardamom. After the watter is boiled and the the sugar dissolved, remove from the fire, float a big heap of coffee ( about tablespoon ) on top of the water, then return to the fire... if you did everything right it will start to foam up... remove from the fire right before it over flows... you can do this a few times (3).... pour out the liquid.. and drink.
above when ever I said fire, I meant sand that was heated by the sun...
number of inexpensive OTC caffeine pills which will do just fine
Those are still more expensive than a big can of instant coffee....
Any way seems like you have a the whole world is here for my pleasure attitude. In that case why not stay in bed all day, and eat chocolate chip cookies...
The main point of drinking coffee because people want the caffeine so they can get things done, a good taste is just a side benefit. There are many more tasty/enjoyable beverages than coffee, if you want to enjoy the consumption as much as possible then you would drink something else. Clearly no-one drinks coffee purely for the enjoyment of the consumption.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy coffee, but many people prioritize there time and money in other ways rather than increasing the enjoyment of their mock amphetamine consumption.
Slashdot Mirror
Israel has been doing this for years, and is one of the largest producers of new technology in the world! Maybe to expect a child who has been dumbed down by TV for 13 years to pick a carrier, is ridiculous. Don't forget that by the time our grand-parents graduated high school most of them went directly into the work force.
All world powers were imperialistic, the western world considers Rome and Greece, to be cultured and respected, even though they were Just as bad if not worse than the Muslims. But some how Muslims are they only ones who we see as intolerant and violent, this isn't a uniquely Muslim quality. It's also true that today they are the biggest perpetrators of open intolerance and voilence
Look I'm not defending the Muslims, or playing the victim card for them, I'm saying that the christians were just as bad (if not worse ) at the time. I'm sure that both sides are stretching the truth, both have a history of doing so.
It might not be a clear-cut case of aggression against Muslim territories, but it was clear, that there was "Christian Aggression" against non-Christians. And what about the peaceful Jews in their countries? The crusaders had a policy of removing heretics, including Jews who had nothing to do with the territorial conflicts.
I may have quoted this before. ( also I don't agree with everything he says here ).Don't get me wrong, I am in no-way I supporter of Muslim violence, I don't know if I can use strong enough language to convey how much I am against it. ( Also I disagree with the basis of their religion, but that is not the point here )
But I see a lot of Christians acting pompous, like their religion is so much better than Islam... Making sarcastically remarks about how it is called the "Religion of Peace." Christianity has a long history of violence and hatred, so they shouldn't think that they are in any position to claim that there is something inherently wrong with someone else's religion, something inherently wrong that causes it's followers to be violent. That was the purpose of my post here.
(BTW there are still plenty of hate filled christians today, to our great sorrow there are still groups like the KKK running around. Personally I have seen much hatred from the religion of love, you seem to be fortunate to live in an area where you are sheltered from this, or you are enough inline with their thinking that they can find better targets. )
As for the whole Darwinism problem, I didn't say that all Christians had a problem with it, I just said that you don't see jews and muslims as upset about it.
"The difference is that Jews do not riot in the streets and murder if someone should wish to choose a different way," but Christians do, have you ever heard of pogroms, or witch hunts, or the spanish inquisition ( ok that one isn't such a riot in the street).
Now I may be uninformed, I don't follow the news and politics so much, but I have yet to hear of Muslims being upset by the teaching of Darwinisms in public schools. One might say that the cartoon of their profit wasn't a threat to their religious beliefs but rather an insult.
Look, I don't need to read any book about middle eastern cultures, I live here... where the threat of Muslim violence is much more real than where you are sitting ( I assume that because you mentioned that you needed a book to understand arab culture). It [violence] is for sure a problem, and I want it to go away more than you do, but I'm not buying all the "Christianity is so much more civilized" propaganda.
http://levshelo.blogspot.com/2005/11/you-just-got
Just a friendly reminder that historically speaking your ancestors are more likely to have been killed by a believer in the "Religion of Love" than the 'Religion of Peace"...
But then I'm not sure about how accurate that is any more , because the "Religion of Love" was better at preventing survivors...
Just a friendly reminder that historically speaking if your dead it is more likely you were killed by a believer in the "Religion of Love" than the 'Religion of Peace"
But then the "Religion of Love" says that non-believers, are dammed to eternal suffering (how loving)... I'm not 100% sure that "eternal suffering" includes reading comments on slashdot...
One dark spot !? What about the Spanish inquisition, pogroms, blood libels, the KKK, 1st Crusades, 2nd Crusades, the 30 years war, 3rd crusades... the list goes on and on and on ...
I don't know how accurate this list is, but worth a look for those whose intelligence is easily insulted.
Islam may be "be a religion of barbarism, tribalism and conquest," but when it comes to body count followers of that defector from Judaism got a much earlier start, and carried out their killings in a much more systematic method...
It should be clear that I wasn't equating the 2 religions, rather I was in-equating them, just to remind that the christians don't have any reason to be so self righteous, and think that they alone are responsible for "prosperous western society."
BTW... I don't quite see how your reminder was delivered in a friendly manner, proper to a lover of the "religion of love".
People should just know not to believe everything they read on slashdot about religion.
I remember reading an article a while back about how jewish boys and muslim girls were being forbidden to wear their traditional head coverings in French schools. ( It doesn't matter if that is true or not) that is an example of imposed freedom from religion, everyone must be religion-less..
My whole point that in a secular school system there is no real 100% freedom of religion, because there always has to be freedom from religion, I'm sure the Jewish, and Muslim kids in secular US schools, don't feel so free about their religion when they are being taught X-mas songs, or when the school is closed for easter break, but they have to miss a week of school if they want to celebrate passover correctly ( sorry for my ignorance, I don't know much about Muslim holidays) .
Education is such a central part of serious religions, that the whole idea of a devout religious kid going to a secular school is nonsensical.
100% will say no, it is against the Jewish religion to kill your self, no mater what the [perceived] benefit to society might be..
Why not ? What have they done to payback all the muslims, jews, and others that they killed on their way to becoming "Modern". Now insted they use monetary incentives to convert impoverished people... this isn't much better..." Look heres the deal, if you abandon you culture, heritage, and religion, I'll give you enough food to live till tomorrow." At least the German government pays reparations to survivors ( This will in no way gain them forgiveness but it is better than nothing)...
I guess something can be moded informative even if the information is wrong ...
I know, I must be new here.
Maybe they got it out of their systems after slaughtering Muslims and Jews through out the years... See crusades and pogroms..
I'm not sure about this but aren't most advocates of the death penalty in the US, religious Christians? They didn't shrug it off, only made it "compatible with modernity".
Oh and if you think christians are so modern consider this: All 3 religions believe in creation as described in the Hebrew Bible... but Judaism and Islam do not consider Darwinism being taught in public schools as a threat to their religious beliefs. The whole christian religion is "archaic and incompatible with modernity."
What is so informative about this ?
And while they are at it, why not leave them selves at home. I mean there is no room for religion in secular schools ( not being sarcastic ). I maybe ignorant but aren't there Muslim schools for these Muslims to go to ? Most religious people have no place in the secularist educational system. Secularism is its own religion, with there own morals, and beliefs. I mean you wouldn't expect a muslim to get an education in line with his beliefs in a catholic school, why would he get a better education at a secularist school... If you want to force people to go to a school where they have to leave their religion at home, then your not a supporter of freedom of religion ( rather freedom from religion ), and thats ok, there are religious countries, where Muslims are free to practice there religion, and get a state sponsored education of their (inaccurate) history that they want. ( there are also no shortage of christian countries, and one Jewish country)
I can't see why the UK (England) would teach the crusades in contradiction to how the Muslims teach it.. I mean isn't there an agreement about proselyting aided by violence. Or are UK schools embarrassed about there heritage of slaughtering Muslims ( and jews ) who refused to accept that man on a stick as a god. I know I'm ranting here, but since when do christians have a right to claim that there hands are so clean, and the the Muslims are the only ones that slaughtered people in the name of religion...
I think this is just a ploy to try to shift the blame for the Holocaust, from European antisemitism to fanatical Muslim Jew-Hatred...
Ok that is the end of my pointless uninformed rant...
Even decaf coffee has some caffeine in it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decaf....Most people who drink decaf know that and expect it ...
What about being a productive member of society ? With your approach to life what happens to treating other people with respect? "I'll treat people in whatever manner I want as long as it brings me pleasure." What is the reason to be a moral human being ?
Or do you define a moral human being as some one who doesn't get in the way of your pleasure. Even then you are forced to concern your self with the joy of others, and that the world is not purely here for your enjoyment.
People are part of this world as well? Is everyone on the face of the earth here for your enjoyment ? If so do they all know that ? What is your proof to them ? "I would be depressed if I thought the world was here for anything other than my enjoyment"!? How do you know the purpose of this world isn't to make Adol depressed? The sad state of this world is because people are letting there pleasure sensors make there moral decisions, be it is physical pleasure or the pleasure that comes from accomplishment or honor.
You can keep your Prorshe, your Foo Foo Coffee, and self centernedness, and I'll keep my Subaru and instant Coffee and idealism. At the end well do an accounting and see who's life was more of a success...
True, coffee is also a great digestive aid .
Sorry poor transliteration, Finjan is a little more accurate, or Dallah for another name.
Just cause you've never heard of it doesn't mean it isn't called that, unless maybe your an expert on semitic languages and cultures.
Also the link you provided is to an article written by some one who came from Russia to the US. I'm not sure why you would think she would be an expert on the names for the pot used to make coffee in middle eastern countries, and provide an exhaustive list of those names.
You mean you waste time with beans and water... I just snort some of that powdered coffee... don't worry the popping sound is just your blood-vessels constricting. I always carry some in a snuff box for when I need a fix.
The classic way to make Turkish coffee is in a fujuan (sp?), it is a small pot with a tapered opening... first you put in water ( about 6 or 7 oz ) and 1 tablespoon of sugar, add a pinch of Hawadg (sp?) (special blend of spices for coffee) or just Cardamom. After the watter is boiled and the the sugar dissolved, remove from the fire, float a big heap of coffee ( about tablespoon ) on top of the water, then return to the fire... if you did everything right it will start to foam up... remove from the fire right before it over flows... you can do this a few times (3) .... pour out the liquid.. and drink.
above when ever I said fire, I meant sand that was heated by the sun...
Those are still more expensive than a big can of instant coffee....
Any way seems like you have a the whole world is here for my pleasure attitude. In that case why not stay in bed all day, and eat chocolate chip cookies...
The main point of drinking coffee because people want the caffeine so they can get things done, a good taste is just a side benefit. There are many more tasty/enjoyable beverages than coffee, if you want to enjoy the consumption as much as possible then you would drink something else. Clearly no-one drinks coffee purely for the enjoyment of the consumption.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy coffee, but many people prioritize there time and money in other ways rather than increasing the enjoyment of their mock amphetamine consumption.