and the point ends up enabling Microsoft to come in and pay vendors to put Windows on the device at the expense and exclusion of the other OS's. ARM means you'll have vendors adapting and competing while x86 means you get Microsoft's vision of the world and you only get Windows unless you are creative enough to install another OS yourself. We know most of the world does not install their own OS and couldn't if their lives depended on it.
We are already seeing Intel paying vendors to push out x86 devices so they'll also be taking Microsoft's funny money because on x86 they can throw Windows while on ARM they can not. Consumers lose because of the lack of choice and they'll lose because the x86 and Windows solutions will not have the staying power in the portable device segment because of the bloat. IMO
maybe it's just a coincidence but given how Oracle has acted in the past, we should all be wondering what gives with the turn around. Maybe there's a patent or two they are holding behind their backs which have recently obtained from Novell. boo!
This has nothing to do with "normal computers", it's about a Windows specific SDK and it has nothing to do with those who are already using the Kinect using open source SDKs other than make them look over the shoulder and say "so?".
And "later in the year". WTF is taking them so long to release and SDK for Windows for that thing anyways? Oh, that's right, it's not about selling more Kinects, it's about how to develop the plan which will lock users into a platform(XBox or Windows). yawn.
and just maybe that was their plan all along since it helped eliminate yet another competitor to the WinTel duopoly and solidified both in the industry for far too long. Remember, they planned a nice game with getting apps ported from UNIX to Win32 and played the bait/switch on them too. Gave out lots of licenses for Win32U, got lots of UNIX software vendors to port claiming they would have one code base and be able to support both platforms. But once they got a significant number of core UNIX apps ported to Win32, they yanked the rug out from under the Win32U companies by massively increasing the licensing costs so that none of them, but one, could stay in business. The one(MainSoft?) could because Microsoft also was paying them for 'porting Internet Explorer to Solaris and HPUX'. Nicely hedging their bet on ending up in court.
The company is made up of bastards who would probably plan your first child's funeral to make sure Windows keeps its position. And I'm also reminded of how they assigned a dozen Microsoft employees( some psychologists ) to script and lead a magazine article author to the specific way they wanted the article to be written. Even down to scripting question/responses to be used when various calls from the author were made to various Microsoft people.
This Windows on ARM is going to get as much or more of the same kind of attention. Microsoft's future could ride on this. IMO
I always loved how we kept hearing about Windows X being a new OS written from the ground up yet along comes an exploit which attacks a flaw in code which spans versions all the way back to 3.x or something like that. They obviously do not clean up the hundreds of MB of system DLLs and so the bloat just keeps rolling on. That kind of stuff will not fly when they have to make that pig move like a Jackie Joyner-Kersee while it lugs around the weight of Melissa McCarthy. IMO
like the vast resources they put into getting Windows to run on the OLPC XO? It was like one guy and it could hardly do much more than boot. If they really had a mean lean version of Windows, they would have released it for the XO and for things like the comparatively bloated ClassMatePC by Intel. They didn't and instead used a cut down version of Windows XP which also could hardly do much and required diesel generators located outside the classrooms to power the laptops.
I think you have it wrong. Microsoft gets threatened, and then reacts. They've survived doing this for decades because the threats were always eliminated via leveraging existing Windows channels, software, or partners. This is a new game and it can't leverage existing Windows systems because the software is incompatible. They probably wish they were far far more proactive pushing the MS.Net platform on all ISVs. So what we are seeing now is much like what we saw in the 90s where they used mockups and prototypes along with great press releases to sucker people into thinking something was close and something was ready. I really doubt this pig is going to fly and if they do get it off the ground, it'll be in a couple of years and probably vastly different from what you expect from a "Windows" experience. IMO
that hardware already has 1GB of memory and all we see is it's running a browser and not much else. This reminds be of a few days after they showed off what would be Windows NT v3.1 and mentioned the hardware it would require. They quickly mocked up a Windows 3.x with a new UI and started calling it Chicago, the next great Microsoft desktop operating system and stopped calling NT that.
Windows on ARM is going to suck or it won't be anything like the Windows you know( ie it will have to be _vastly_ cut down ). And you know it's going to need antivirus software so start betting on 4+ cores and a couple of gigs of RAM as a minimum configuration. I wonder how small they can make those cooling fans?
you must be too young to have watched the Microsoft vs DOJ case where Microsoft showed a video of how easy it was to download netscape and install it(or something like that) and repeatedly was asked if this was an unedited unscripted video and repeatedly they said yes Your Honor. So out comes the prosecution with scenes showing icons mysteriously moving and even disappearing on the desktops in the video and to that the Microsoft lawyers confessed it was mocked up. So what is lying to the Judge and perjury really mean in todays courts? zip, zero, nada, nothing.
BTW, I still have seen no dates for when Google got that cert and when they said they "had" it.
to me it looked like a guy dug up some old technology, probably made a working prototype of that and then came up with faked numbers and designs to get a few million from all the free energy money getting tossed out the window of Obama's clean energy bus in hopes someone/something useful comes of it.
the Parent was probably going with the concept that the transmission is effectively being replaced with a different drive train system and they fail to include the weight of those components. When you see claims like this then you have to ask yourself, are they trying to hide something or is it a PR stunt or both?
BTW, there have been wave engines and pulse engines for decades just like there were hydrogen powered fuel cells for decades. So when you see lots of theory and no measured data from real prototypes you have to ask yourself, is this a snakeoil salesman or what? They seemed to have put up enough smoke and mirror with the right amount of arm waving and such to get a few million from the government. But hey, we know from the USPTO that it's not too difficult to fool those people.
Just remember who they signed a billion plus dollar contract with and you have your answer. Part of the cleanup and part of the plan to make sure Nokia is dead in 5 years and everything goes to the partner. IMO
HP already did a Windows tablet and it got all kinds of press until a month or so later when HP realized it sucked( not the hardware ) and pulled it.
The deal is this, x86 and standard Windows can not possibly compete with the iPad or any of the Android tablets. Windows and x86 are power hungry and when you try to run Microsoft Office or other Windows x86 apps on it then you're tethered to a power cord. So they have to cut Windows down and get something running on ARM and the problem there is they have no applications, if they sell it as "Windows" then people will try to put x86 apps on it, it a marketing nightmare and would threaten the desktop market and harm their Windows brand even more.
So they have no choice but to bash the idea of the tablet as Apple has defined it while they spin around trying to figure out a strategy to compete. It would have to be a 5+ year plan to blend WP7 with Windows and end up with anything people will be able to follow as a consistent message. IMO
yes, it was the career politician John Ashcroft who was appointed US Attorney General under the G W Bush regime and immediately called for taking Judge Jackson off the case. What I always found interesting about that particular anti-trust case was that the Judge appointed to the case, by luck of the draw, turned out to be the same Judge who was told to settle the previous case some 8 years earlier. So this Justice knew from previous experience what tricks Microsoft played and how they got away with one and were sent off with a slap on the wrist for contractually tying their OS software to computer hardware sales. I'm sure he was none too pleased when time after time MS executives showed to be hostile witnesses and in court showed their same shenanigans by with faked videos claimed to be live and untouched evidence. He found them guilty and let them have it by ordered them split up but once again, the Judge on the case was removed and another Judge handed the case with what sure seemed like orders to make it go away without harm to Microsoft.
Thank you John Ashcroft and GW Bush for fucking up yet another thing.
I was thinking they dropped H.264 but I now recall it was in their browser it was dropped. I still hear the waaaaaaaaaaaaa sound coming out of One Microsoft Way all the way over here.
OT, not sure what's up with Vimeo but those don't always work for me on GNU/Linux and either FF or Chrome.
if it were not for the ignorance of the politicians and judiciary, this would be funny. So Microsoft goes on the attack after Adobe because Adobe(via Flash and Acrobat Reader) is the only company left with the same preload channel partners as Microsoft has for their Windows OS. Google has a video service they bought which runs off either Flash or HTML5 using the open source decoder WebM. Now Microsoft is crying because they claim they are being locked out of YouTube?
At least this isn't yet in the US court system since the EU has shown to be far more capable of understanding basic tricks and techniques Microsoft uses.
not sure I'd call XBox a success yet since they just now started pulling in profits on that. Before that, they were losing hundreds of millions per quarter, lost over 3 billion on the RRoF over heating issues, and before that spent billions on development of the devices. And isn't it getting close to time for another rev of the console? No other company in the world would have spent that kind of money to win a small part of the market. Same goes for Windows CE and it's incarnations up to WP7. That product line has cost them 10s of billions over the 15 years it's been on the market and they are spending billions again trying to stop Apple and Android from owning the entire market.
They are always playing catchup because they have never been any good at defining a new market, never. And as long as the PC still sells in current numbers, they have a revenue stream to fund all these losing products even if it's just to make sure no one company grows big enough to have the power to shut Microsoft Windows down. It's the Innovators Dilemma in action. IMO
good thing they still pull in billions in profits from Windows and MS Office or they would not be able to keep funding billion dollar losers like WindowsCE/PC/Mobile/P7, MSN/BING, WebTV, Zune, Kin and XBox. I wonder why their investors have not been screaming at them over the past 10 years?
yes and Apple wasn't in the netbook market so they could jump into that, pay the OEMs, with marketing deals, to increase the hardware so Windows will run on it and so the price is outside of what is generally known as the sweet-spot( $249 ). They can't do that in the tablet sector because Apple set the standard and no matter how many OEMs Microsoft paid to put Windows on a tablet, the iPad would always be there to mock how poorly Windows was relatively speaking.
I do find it funny that Bill Gates was constantly doing 1 hour demos with expensive Windows based tablets saying how the future is in tablets and now this. So Apple, once again take an industry that's had over 5 years of screwing with Windows and drops a bombshell on the market and it's a screaming success. Now Mundie, who was around when Gates was doing the tablet dances, says it's a fad. Like you said, they have no choice because they have nothing technically to put out there and be of much value other than a little demo system.
When the 4 core ARM SoC's come out with 2-4 GB of RAM and Windows is ported to ARM, then they will enter the tablet market. Sorry, like the phone market, too little too late Microsoft.
this is why Microsoft must state that the tablets are a fad. They still have no OS to compete on the hardware and they have Apple to thank for a hardware base and software base to be compared to. They must say it's a fad because they have no excuse but the obvious to explain to investors why they are not in the market. IMO
yes, it was a surprise when they finally killed MS Money, MS FlightSimulator, Kin, Zune and probably a few others which they have been willing to keep dumping billions into for years. Those moves showed that Microsoft is starting to find it hard to move money around and still make it look like Windows(desktop and server) and MS Office are not the only profit streams they have. We already know that $1.5 billion for the Nokia deal is just a start and it'll probably be another 2-3 billion over the next 2 years to shove WP7 into everyones face and maybe a few pockets. And it does not help one bit that now we're seeing standard news outlets like The Today Show talking about how the smartphone and tablets are replacing all kinds of devices including a desktop/laptop computer. This isn't a tech journalist with a GNU/Linux slant saying it, it's the GP news people. Microsoft does not sell upgrades or new software when people are looking outside of the Windows box for their solutions.
Things like BING are costing them billions annually and they are going to be expected to produce a new Xbox before 2015 so we could very well see WPx canned before 2015 and see their revenue start dropping. IMO
that bit of "does shit with them" seems to be kicking Microsoft's ass in search and the smartphone market. What other company that size pays 20% of an employees salary to let them work on a personal project?
BTW, it was Microsoft who specifically stated that a way to attack competition was to hire the brightest in the industry and pen them up in their own R&D area so they would not be out on the market to create something which was not Windows based. IIRC, it was in the Halloween Document.
Slashdot Mirror
I didn't think so. A plugin it must be.
LoB
and the point ends up enabling Microsoft to come in and pay vendors to put Windows on the device at the expense and exclusion of the other OS's. ARM means you'll have vendors adapting and competing while x86 means you get Microsoft's vision of the world and you only get Windows unless you are creative enough to install another OS yourself. We know most of the world does not install their own OS and couldn't if their lives depended on it.
We are already seeing Intel paying vendors to push out x86 devices so they'll also be taking Microsoft's funny money because on x86 they can throw Windows while on ARM they can not. Consumers lose because of the lack of choice and they'll lose because the x86 and Windows solutions will not have the staying power in the portable device segment because of the bloat. IMO
LoB
coming soon!
LoB
maybe it's just a coincidence but given how Oracle has acted in the past, we should all be wondering what gives with the turn around.
Maybe there's a patent or two they are holding behind their backs which have recently obtained from Novell. boo!
LoB
This has nothing to do with "normal computers", it's about a Windows specific SDK and it has nothing to do with those who are already using the Kinect using open source SDKs other than make them look over the shoulder and say "so?".
And "later in the year". WTF is taking them so long to release and SDK for Windows for that thing anyways? Oh, that's right, it's not about selling more Kinects, it's about how to develop the plan which will lock users into a platform(XBox or Windows). yawn.
LoB
and just maybe that was their plan all along since it helped eliminate yet another competitor to the WinTel duopoly and solidified both in the industry for far too long. Remember, they planned a nice game with getting apps ported from UNIX to Win32 and played the bait/switch on them too. Gave out lots of licenses for Win32U, got lots of UNIX software vendors to port claiming they would have one code base and be able to support both platforms. But once they got a significant number of core UNIX apps ported to Win32, they yanked the rug out from under the Win32U companies by massively increasing the licensing costs so that none of them, but one, could stay in business. The one(MainSoft?) could because Microsoft also was paying them for 'porting Internet Explorer to Solaris and HPUX'. Nicely hedging their bet on ending up in court.
The company is made up of bastards who would probably plan your first child's funeral to make sure Windows keeps its position. And I'm also reminded of how they assigned a dozen Microsoft employees( some psychologists ) to script and lead a magazine article author to the specific way they wanted the article to be written. Even down to scripting question/responses to be used when various calls from the author were made to various Microsoft people.
This Windows on ARM is going to get as much or more of the same kind of attention. Microsoft's future could ride on this. IMO
LoB
I always loved how we kept hearing about Windows X being a new OS written from the ground up yet along comes an exploit which attacks a flaw in code which spans versions all the way back to 3.x or something like that. They obviously do not clean up the hundreds of MB of system DLLs and so the bloat just keeps rolling on. That kind of stuff will not fly when they have to make that pig move like a Jackie Joyner-Kersee while it lugs around the weight of Melissa McCarthy. IMO
LoB
like the vast resources they put into getting Windows to run on the OLPC XO? It was like one guy and it could hardly do much more than boot. If they really had a mean lean version of Windows, they would have released it for the XO and for things like the comparatively bloated ClassMatePC by Intel. They didn't and instead used a cut down version of Windows XP which also could hardly do much and required diesel generators located outside the classrooms to power the laptops.
.Net platform on all ISVs. So what we are seeing now is much like what we saw in the 90s where they used mockups and prototypes along with great press releases to sucker people into thinking something was close and something was ready. I really doubt this pig is going to fly and if they do get it off the ground, it'll be in a couple of years and probably vastly different from what you expect from a "Windows" experience. IMO
I think you have it wrong. Microsoft gets threatened, and then reacts. They've survived doing this for decades because the threats were always eliminated via leveraging existing Windows channels, software, or partners. This is a new game and it can't leverage existing Windows systems because the software is incompatible. They probably wish they were far far more proactive pushing the MS
LoB
that hardware already has 1GB of memory and all we see is it's running a browser and not much else. This reminds be of a few days after they showed off what would be Windows NT v3.1 and mentioned the hardware it would require. They quickly mocked up a Windows 3.x with a new UI and started calling it Chicago, the next great Microsoft desktop operating system and stopped calling NT that.
Windows on ARM is going to suck or it won't be anything like the Windows you know( ie it will have to be _vastly_ cut down ). And you know it's going to need antivirus software so start betting on 4+ cores and a couple of gigs of RAM as a minimum configuration. I wonder how small they can make those cooling fans?
LoB
you must be too young to have watched the Microsoft vs DOJ case where Microsoft showed a video of how easy it was to download netscape and install it(or something like that) and repeatedly was asked if this was an unedited unscripted video and repeatedly they said yes Your Honor. So out comes the prosecution with scenes showing icons mysteriously moving and even disappearing on the desktops in the video and to that the Microsoft lawyers confessed it was mocked up. So what is lying to the Judge and perjury really mean in todays courts? zip, zero, nada, nothing.
BTW, I still have seen no dates for when Google got that cert and when they said they "had" it.
LoB
to me it looked like a guy dug up some old technology, probably made a working prototype of that and then came up with faked numbers and designs to get a few million from all the free energy money getting tossed out the window of Obama's clean energy bus in hopes someone/something useful comes of it.
I smell a snake.
LoB
the Parent was probably going with the concept that the transmission is effectively being replaced with a different drive train system and they fail to include the weight of those components. When you see claims like this then you have to ask yourself, are they trying to hide something or is it a PR stunt or both?
BTW, there have been wave engines and pulse engines for decades just like there were hydrogen powered fuel cells for decades. So when you see lots of theory and no measured data from real prototypes you have to ask yourself, is this a snakeoil salesman or what? They seemed to have put up enough smoke and mirror with the right amount of arm waving and such to get a few million from the government. But hey, we know from the USPTO that it's not too difficult to fool those people.
LoB
and you don't think Microsoft knows how to dance around regulators? Where have you been for the past 25 years?
LoB
Just remember who they signed a billion plus dollar contract with and you have your answer. Part of the cleanup and part of the plan to make sure Nokia is dead in 5 years and everything goes to the partner. IMO
LoB
ba-da-dum
LoB
HP already did a Windows tablet and it got all kinds of press until a month or so later when HP realized it sucked( not the hardware ) and pulled it.
The deal is this, x86 and standard Windows can not possibly compete with the iPad or any of the Android tablets. Windows and x86 are power hungry and when you try to run Microsoft Office or other Windows x86 apps on it then you're tethered to a power cord. So they have to cut Windows down and get something running on ARM and the problem there is they have no applications, if they sell it as "Windows" then people will try to put x86 apps on it, it a marketing nightmare and would threaten the desktop market and harm their Windows brand even more.
So they have no choice but to bash the idea of the tablet as Apple has defined it while they spin around trying to figure out a strategy to compete. It would have to be a 5+ year plan to blend WP7 with Windows and end up with anything people will be able to follow as a consistent message. IMO
LoB
yes, it was the career politician John Ashcroft who was appointed US Attorney General under the G W Bush regime and immediately called for taking Judge Jackson off the case. What I always found interesting about that particular anti-trust case was that the Judge appointed to the case, by luck of the draw, turned out to be the same Judge who was told to settle the previous case some 8 years earlier. So this Justice knew from previous experience what tricks Microsoft played and how they got away with one and were sent off with a slap on the wrist for contractually tying their OS software to computer hardware sales. I'm sure he was none too pleased when time after time MS executives showed to be hostile witnesses and in court showed their same shenanigans by with faked videos claimed to be live and untouched evidence. He found them guilty and let them have it by ordered them split up but once again, the Judge on the case was removed and another Judge handed the case with what sure seemed like orders to make it go away without harm to Microsoft.
Thank you John Ashcroft and GW Bush for fucking up yet another thing.
LoB
I was thinking they dropped H.264 but I now recall it was in their browser it was dropped. I still hear the waaaaaaaaaaaaa sound coming out of One Microsoft Way all the way over here.
OT, not sure what's up with Vimeo but those don't always work for me on GNU/Linux and either FF or Chrome.
LoB
if it were not for the ignorance of the politicians and judiciary, this would be funny. So Microsoft goes on the attack after Adobe because Adobe(via Flash and Acrobat Reader) is the only company left with the same preload channel partners as Microsoft has for their Windows OS. Google has a video service they bought which runs off either Flash or HTML5 using the open source decoder WebM. Now Microsoft is crying because they claim they are being locked out of YouTube?
At least this isn't yet in the US court system since the EU has shown to be far more capable of understanding basic tricks and techniques Microsoft uses.
nope, not April 1st either. too funny.
LoB
not sure I'd call XBox a success yet since they just now started pulling in profits on that. Before that, they were losing hundreds of millions per quarter, lost over 3 billion on the RRoF over heating issues, and before that spent billions on development of the devices. And isn't it getting close to time for another rev of the console? No other company in the world would have spent that kind of money to win a small part of the market. Same goes for Windows CE and it's incarnations up to WP7. That product line has cost them 10s of billions over the 15 years it's been on the market and they are spending billions again trying to stop Apple and Android from owning the entire market.
They are always playing catchup because they have never been any good at defining a new market, never. And as long as the PC still sells in current numbers, they have a revenue stream to fund all these losing products even if it's just to make sure no one company grows big enough to have the power to shut Microsoft Windows down. It's the Innovators Dilemma in action. IMO
LoB
good thing they still pull in billions in profits from Windows and MS Office or they would not be able to keep funding billion dollar losers like WindowsCE/PC/Mobile/P7, MSN/BING, WebTV, Zune, Kin and XBox. I wonder why their investors have not been screaming at them over the past 10 years?
LoB
yes and Apple wasn't in the netbook market so they could jump into that, pay the OEMs, with marketing deals, to increase the hardware so Windows will run on it and so the price is outside of what is generally known as the sweet-spot( $249 ). They can't do that in the tablet sector because Apple set the standard and no matter how many OEMs Microsoft paid to put Windows on a tablet, the iPad would always be there to mock how poorly Windows was relatively speaking.
I do find it funny that Bill Gates was constantly doing 1 hour demos with expensive Windows based tablets saying how the future is in tablets and now this. So Apple, once again take an industry that's had over 5 years of screwing with Windows and drops a bombshell on the market and it's a screaming success. Now Mundie, who was around when Gates was doing the tablet dances, says it's a fad. Like you said, they have no choice because they have nothing technically to put out there and be of much value other than a little demo system.
When the 4 core ARM SoC's come out with 2-4 GB of RAM and Windows is ported to ARM, then they will enter the tablet market. Sorry, like the phone market, too little too late Microsoft.
LoB
this is why Microsoft must state that the tablets are a fad. They still have no OS to compete on the hardware and they have Apple to thank for a hardware base and software base to be compared to. They must say it's a fad because they have no excuse but the obvious to explain to investors why they are not in the market. IMO
LoB
yes, it was a surprise when they finally killed MS Money, MS FlightSimulator, Kin, Zune and probably a few others which they have been willing to keep dumping billions into for years. Those moves showed that Microsoft is starting to find it hard to move money around and still make it look like Windows(desktop and server) and MS Office are not the only profit streams they have. We already know that $1.5 billion for the Nokia deal is just a start and it'll probably be another 2-3 billion over the next 2 years to shove WP7 into everyones face and maybe a few pockets. And it does not help one bit that now we're seeing standard news outlets like The Today Show talking about how the smartphone and tablets are replacing all kinds of devices including a desktop/laptop computer. This isn't a tech journalist with a GNU/Linux slant saying it, it's the GP news people. Microsoft does not sell upgrades or new software when people are looking outside of the Windows box for their solutions.
Things like BING are costing them billions annually and they are going to be expected to produce a new Xbox before 2015 so we could very well see WPx canned before 2015 and see their revenue start dropping. IMO
LoB
that bit of "does shit with them" seems to be kicking Microsoft's ass in search and the smartphone market. What other company that size pays 20% of an employees salary to let them work on a personal project?
BTW, it was Microsoft who specifically stated that a way to attack competition was to hire the brightest in the industry and pen them up in their own R&D area so they would not be out on the market to create something which was not Windows based. IIRC, it was in the Halloween Document.
LoB