Jane you ignorant slut, I was referring to the Thai project for cheap laptops for adults. The one HP was the supplier for and later had to add Dell because HP couldn't keep up with demand, and which happened a few years ago. Not any OLPC project.
IIRC, it is the project which spawned Microsoft creating Microsoft Windows XP Starter Edition.
And we already know that Microsoft was willing to assign something like 12 employees to one reporter so that he got "their" message and produced the article "they" wanted. I wonder how many psychologists, business PhDs, and marketeers they assigned to Mr Negroponte to get him to believe that what he is doing is going to be good for OLPC?
There appears to be no limit to the number of fools who keep listening to the Snakeoil Salesmen of Redmond.
I too anxiously await clarification on what part(s) of Sugar will make it to Windows. If it's the whole desktop, journal, and activities then great and Negroponte would have pulled off the impossible. But, if it going to be the disassembling of the activities so they run on the default XP desktop then Negroponte will have been pawned and all his bases belong to Microsoft.
This should become clear in a few months as Sugar developers explain what is really going on.
Intel just wants to sell semiconductors, no matter what software is running on it. True and that is why Intel sales people gave up on a all but guaranteed sale and tried once again to take away the OLPC sale in Peru. OLPC had evidence of this and Intel was caught so they quite the board. They want OLPC dead because it is AMD.
Microsoft just wants to sell software, no matter what semiconductor it is running on. True again and this time it is because it has the ability to show Linux and open source are viable platforms for PC-like products. Microsoft paid Thailand to stop taking Linux laptops and instead take a crippled Windows XP. Yup, Microsoft paid them with millions in 'services' while charging them $5/ea for licensing. Financial trick but it was a payment to keep Linux from growing. Microsoft did the same thing with a Linux based Classmate PC sale and even went far as to pay for a company to wipe Linux and put Windows on after deliver.
All this Microsoft interest in OLPC is to stop Linux and open source software on the devices. Do you really think they are going to let the Sugar interface cover up the Windows Explorer desktop? Hell now they are not and Negroponte was vary vague in what he considered "sugar". I sounded more like he wanted the sugar apps torn from the sugar desktop so they run on Windows Explorer. That is what Microsoft wants as it means the Linux and open source stack( Sugar ) is locked out of this market.
No conspiracy, pure facts from years and years of consistent anti-competitive business methods like this. Not fine when you're a monopoly convicted and charged many times with protectionism.
I would have no problem if they could somehow make the XO do everything it does now and more but put Windows as the underlying OS. But that is just not even an option and Negroponte wants Sugar taken apart so the apps run on Windows. That means the whole software design goes out the window and last decades version of a user interface is what kids will get.
That is just wrong. Kids don't need all that crap the Windows desktop brings with it. But I also find it difficult to believe that Windows can be a better OS under any GUI when self support is a design goal of the project. Microsoft can't pawn off support to OLPC or it will drown them. Hey, maybe that is the plan?
The way I look at the Journal is that kids will be given school assignments, start them at school and then have to finish them at home. Isn't it far easier to just start the activity at school and close it, then when you are home, bring up the journal and it is right there at the top or near it. As long as there's a way to copy it to the teacher for evaluation, that's pretty much the last of it and it will move its way down the list.
In the structure of classroom assignments and the short term assignments of this age group, it seems like a very nice way to do this without having all the details to deal with of an hierarchical system. In this case, there are ever changing places to put stuff and that leads to confusion when it's really not needed for the audience targeted.
I'm not sure how well it would work for adult users and every day type of work. Maybe a GoogleDesktop like search mechanism would make it work but this really should be about the XO and the kids.
it does work and if I can remember the final steps, it shouldn't be too difficult for many to try it out.
1) boot the Ubuntu LiveCD with a network connection 2) open Synaptic Page Manager( System->Administration->Synaptic...) 3) enable the Universe repository found in Synaptics Settings->Repositories menus 4) reload as the dialog will suggest 5) do a Synaptic search for Sugar using the search icon in the upper right of the application 6) select Sugar and Sugar-Activities 7) Click the Apply button 8) when all is done, go to the Login Manager(System->Administration->Login Manager) and unCheck the option for only single user login. 9) switch user from the top launch bar on the desktop, change the Session Type to Sugar, and use the "ubuntu" username with no password.
You should now be running Sugar with a bunch of activities already installed. I only tried the chat activity and it works great. Start it, share it with the network and then invite people to join from the network view(f1).
For some reason, I could not get the web activity to work though it works fine in my installed version of Sugar on Ubuntu 8.04.
Really, this desktop system( Sugar ) and the Journal are a really nice UI for the classroom so that the teacher does not have to spend much time on the UI. Also, students can easily get to their assignments right from the Journal and finish up what they were doing in class. Again, without very much training at all.
FYI, some activities like eToys are not 'real' Sugar activities and are instead Sqeak/Smalltalk applications wrapped in Sugar. Many of the native Sugar activities work as would be expected.
Anybody who's thinking of chiming in on this thread should have spent a couple of hours exploring this system with the understanding that it is designed for children in a classroom with a teacher organizing classwork and homework. IMO.
The XO needs to be able to perform the tasks that a normal computer performs. It doesn't need to be as fast at all the same things but it needs to be able to do them.
If you mean the following then I agree but these are not all "normal computer" operations: 1) easily start/launch applications 2) easily stop the application or switch to another 3) easily restart the application on the data it was originally started with, not just the last dataset. 4) easily start a mesh network session with one or many XO devices nearby 5) easily enable the user identify one or many users around him/her 6) easily invite one or many users to share applications and/or data 7) easily allow applications to be created which have network sharing builtin
There are quite a few others but these are the key elements of this particular devices requirements as I've come to understand it. As you can see, many of these are not standard on any device I've seen or heard of. An Apple Newton might fit the easy connect/share items but not the "or many" requirement. There's a bunch of power savings things in there too like the computer motherboard can sleep while the display still shows data and the mesh network device also operates on the mesh will the rest of the system is sleeping.
If you have actually used the latest build or even the 656 build then you will know that all of these these things are in a complete stage or in the 90% complete stage of development. It is usable but no quite hitting 100% of the requirements yet. I've only had the device inhand for about 30 days now but we've spent hours using it and probably as many exploring its features. I've spent years on many different GUI systems from handhelds( dedicated and general purpose), PCs, workstations, and thin clients so I'm not a one trick pony of GUI design/use. Also, keeping in mind that the education of children is what the XO's intended use and the requirements set for this to meet that ends, Sugar on the XO does a great job.
The GP said that Sugar was neato but a long way from being ready for primetime. Nothing you have said actually contradicts this. Stability is more important than "usable for some learning activities".
I would not say it is a long way from primetime and you can argue that decades have been spent on very clunky Windows systems with the requirment to pay them for upgrades to make even basic features work. USB comes to mind. So if if there are changes required to Sugar as it matures, the mechanisms for updating are far far better than anything people have used on Windows. Their update-olpc script does a fantastic job at updating the system. Activity loading and installing is as easy as any Debian synaptic system and in some cases easier with batch installation capabilities.
I can not see the device being anything but a chore to use if they try putting a standard desktop computer metaphor on the device and load standard, non-sharable applications on the device. Forcing the kids to deal with the file system to find and reload project data is just going to waste their time and the teachers time as hours and hours will be spent on getting students to find the file they just used last week and get it loaded so they can update it.
At the very least, I would recommend you get the latest Ubuntu LiveCD( wait til tomorrows release ), boot it up as a liveCD, and then install the Sugar and Sugar-Activities packages. You should then be able to run Sugar on your laptop with some of the activities and some with that network sharing capabilities. You can also see how the Journal can be used to get back to your application data in a way which will work nicely in a classroom activity format. ie, assignments are right there at the top of the list where they stay as you complete them and then propagate down the list as they go unused after completion. You should also see the network neighborhood(f1) and network group(f2) screens Sugar has implemented. F1 gets you back to your Home screen
my thought was that there is an NDA which restricts him from saying such things. He may not have signed it but it sure sounds like Negroponte is willing to sign such a thing and NDA's can restrict organizations not just one or two in the org.
that maybe true for TimTam but one of the eToys does animation along with story telling. There's alot for kids to learn in just this one activity. There's the writing part in the story telling. There is the picture by picture part which might relay the concepts of cause and effect. Also, that small events tied together can create a very difficult or complex event. Whole classwork sections on story telling can be used to teach writing skills and and content creation while at the same time, they're having fun doing it.
I hope that somewhere there is documentation on what the activities provide in the way of learning and what others have done to implement classroom sections using these activities. I believe this is the kind of open source-like education and sharing that Mr Bender is striving for. Teachers helping teachers around the world create better and better coursework in an open environment. I'm still hoping it'll happen.
interesting, now try this after adding the multiverse and/or universe repositories:
sudo apt-get install sugar sugar-activities
logout and then change the session type to Sugar and see what you get.;-)
You can also use the standard application install tool(s) if you're not a commandline speed junky. FYI, Sugar has not "logout" option so you have to either reboot or restart gdm to get back to the login screen to boot the XFCE desktop or what ever one you've installed.
please remember that your kids( ages 9 and 12 ) are not 3rd work kids and as you stated, they have already been indoctrinated into the way Microsoft feels a generic user interface should be. Also, your kids Gateway computer is not being used in a teaching environment with a curriculum designed around learning. All of these are far far off from what the design of the XO and Sugar are about.
And yes, Sugar is not quite there yet but come on, it has taken Microsoft over 10 years to get there little Windows CE/Windows Mobile operating system and UI to a point where it is just about usable. Ten years and they have over $10 billion in losses just in that one little software kit. Sugar is very very close to where it needs to be and already at a point where it is usable for some learning activities. Look up some of the deployment and pilot articles being written and you'll see there is already useful learning going on. Sugar hides alot of the goofiness general purpose desktop UI's have and don't even get me started about the filesystem. Just look at all the changing ways there are to not only create application data but also getting back to it. Sugar simplifies this by putting it into the Journal in time/date order. Just like you would want if the goal was to use the device for assignments which must be finished and turned in for grading and then mostly discarded.
You are making the incorrect assumption that the XO is supposed to be like a normal computer and it is not. It is too bad but way too many think the way you do and the whole project is getting a bad rep because of this misinformation. IMO.
really, for just under $200 you get a brand new and "much more powerful and real laptop"? That is pure bull and even the Eee PC at ~$300 is missing many of the required features the XO has. Dust, water, and physical abuse resistance is built into the XO but not even the ~$300 Eee PC or the Intel Classmate PC. The outdoor readable display and low power draining wireless mesh, also missing from these 'other' devices but standard on the XO.
Sorry but you're a quack and don't know what you are talking about. And the OLPC XO is designed to be a learning tool by means of being a platform for interactive and collaborative applications while at the same time being a device to read electronic documents( ebooks ) because in the harshest environments where these are intended to be used, paper books don't last long at all.
Do you somehow think that this devices is designed to be like an adults laptop and should therefore be used just as an adults laptop would be used? That and adults general purpose laptop computer and all it's complexity are what kids should be taught? WTF have you been over the last three years this has been talked about? It is a dedicated learning tool and not your standard laptop computer. It is by no means a toy.
They have lost the number 1 weapon for pushing people to new upgrade OS. Games. Upgrades have not been much of a weapon to move people to their latest OS for quite some time. Maybe since late 1995 with Windows 95.
Since then, it's been all about the OEM pre-load market. Even in 1995, Microsoft knew what pre-loading did for Windows and prevented may OEMs from loading OS/2 and later BeOS. Remember the court documents which showed how HP was forced to pull OS/2 off computer at Comdex and not a single US company could or would pre-load OS/2 except IBM. IBM had to pay much higher licensing fees for Windows across it's PC line because they refused to NOT have OS/2 preloads.
They may have failed to keep gamers looking for a new Vista PC by allowing a hack to install DirectX 10 on XP but that is such a small small market. One week of pre-load sales probably covers that gamer upgrade market. You are right about consoles being where it's at now and has been for the past 5+ years.
Markets change (cough, cough, record industry), and Microsoft, a lumbering giant with it's operating procedure set well in place, is learning that it has little choice but to adapt if they are going to survive as the market leader...or at all. Changing? Is that why we have Vista on the market and OEMs are still prevented from preloading anything else? Is how they manipulated the ISO standardization system to get their proprietary MSOOXML format declared an ISO standard? I agree that they must change to survive in the long run but there has been nothing to show they are actually changing. Only the billions in fines by the EU as forced them to expose some documents on their formats but everything else they do shows they are the same old Microsoft.
Unfortunately, the small pressure Linux and Apple put on them only harms their brand and not really their wallet. As you mentioned, their brand is a big deal to them, hence the Yahoo/Google hopla.
None of this really changes the fact that Microsoft is forcing Vista on users just like they did previous releases.
Microsoft will drive Vista through you skull just like they did with Windows 2000 and Windows XP. It may take 3 years to get it through your thick skulls that Vista is your future but you will eventually get it.
What could possibly give them reason to not force Vista on its customers being in the position they are in?
This stuff about Vista uptake/etc is getting old and it appears that even 8 yours is too long for people to remember how it was the last couple of times. Surprise, you're stuck with what they give you.
and others including this latest. And what fun is it to post in a computer tech rag about a toaster burning down a home? When Microsoft does it, there's something about it which makes you wonder why they are in the tech industry at all. They are not very good at security, lose money on everything but monopoly leveraged products and their hardware and software does a nice job at adding to global warming( whatever that is ). IMO.
FTFA: "According to Little Rock, Arkansas fire department captain Jason Weaver, a 360's power cord was to blame for a blaze that injured no one (thankfully) but caused some $100,000 in property damage."
So what first looked like the blaze might have been contained to one room, at $100,000 means it probably took out most of the house.
then why do you suppose the new Eee PC currently only gets about 2.5 hours of out of a charge?
Small, probably low-capacity and low-quality battery to keep costs down. Earlier you said that new CPUs over the last "umpty-odd years" was producing longer battery life and this is your reply? Then that comment comment is invalid if you believe that the device vendors are putting in cheap batteries to offset costs because the customer never sees bettery battery life without adding to the product.
And that's with the Linux install so I can't wait to see how the Windows version is.
At least as well, I would imagine. Linux doesn't exactly have a glowing history of power-management support and the hardware requirements aren't any lower (with the possible exception of disk space). No it doesn't but from what I've heard, even with more interest in power management on Windows, I often hear of worst battery life on the same hardware when running Windows. I've heard the same with the Eee PC.
Me thinks customer choice was tampered with as Microsoft is a tough 'partner' and does not like to see companies be successful with Linux. IMO.
Yes, but people like you see Microsoft conspiracies in anything. It's actually quite fascinating to watch the mental gymnastics of explaining why $MANUFACTURERS hate doing $SOMETHING and then ignoring all other possible explanations to come to the conclusion that "Microsoft forced them to". Well, something is wrong here and as someone who has worked in product development and the consumer distribution channels, well, something is wrong here. Asus didn't do what would be expected and there is definitely a market perception associated with two like products where one has a lower price. Cranking up the hardware so the Linux version is the same cost is a strange maneuver and well, Microsoft has been found guilty of many times worst kinds of manipulations. What is a person to think if they know these facts? It sure wasn't due to a full moon or Budda.
The added screen resolution seems to be a smart move and we'll see if "atom" really is anything like the marketing hype they are putting behind it. I would not hold my breath as you seem to be doing because I've made myself blue in the face too many times and been burned. What is here and now is what is important because marketing dweebs can and will tell you all kinds of wonderful lies about the rosy future but only a drop might be true. The here and now is where it's at IMO.
you can bet that Microsoft required the added memory for the Linux version. It would be foolish of Asus to do this on their own given how Linux does not need that extra space and it is Windows which requires more resources.
IMO, this should have the anti-trust judge looking at what's going on here because it is obvious that Microsoft is manipulating competing product configurations in its licensing. IMO.
I would suspect the wireless isn't pulling much more than 200-300 mA so most of your battery drain is from the CPU and GPU being used for video playback. You would probably play wireless Internet radio for close to 4 hours too.
If anything, the newer CPUs would use _less_ power and improve battery life. That's been the trend for the last umpty-odd years. then why do you suppose the new Eee PC currently only gets about 2.5 hours of out of a charge? And that's with the Linux install so I can't wait to see how the Windows version is.
FYI, I found it sad that ASUS opted to increase the cost of the Linux version by changing the specs compared to the Windows version. Adding SKU's is something vendors try very hard not to do. But ASUS, in their licensing of Microsoft Windows for the new version(900) won't give you Linux on the same configuration(12G flash) at a lower price but instead, added hardware to the Linux version(20G flash). Why do you suppose they did that since Linux typically requires far less space than Microsoft Windows? Me thinks customer choice was tampered with as Microsoft is a tough 'partner' and does not like to see companies be successful with Linux. IMO. And so much for this being a cheap device now that the hardware was ramped up to handle Microsofts older version of an OS.
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I had a CD-RW Brasero would keep choking on and ended up just going to the CLI and cdrecord.
It was on an 8.04 beta partition and I didn't want to bother with installing k3b. I will be sticking with k3b in my standard partition.
LoB
Jane you ignorant slut, I was referring to the Thai project for cheap laptops for adults. The one HP was the supplier for and later had to add Dell because HP couldn't keep up with demand, and which happened a few years ago. Not any OLPC project.
IIRC, it is the project which spawned Microsoft creating Microsoft Windows XP Starter Edition.
LoB
And we already know that Microsoft was willing to assign something like 12 employees to one reporter so that he got "their" message and produced the article "they" wanted. I wonder how many psychologists, business PhDs, and marketeers they assigned to Mr Negroponte to get him to believe that what he is doing is going to be good for OLPC?
There appears to be no limit to the number of fools who keep listening to the Snakeoil Salesmen of Redmond.
LoB
I too anxiously await clarification on what part(s) of Sugar will make it to Windows. If it's the whole desktop, journal, and activities then great and Negroponte would have pulled off the impossible. But, if it going to be the disassembling of the activities so they run on the default XP desktop then Negroponte will have been pawned and all his bases belong to Microsoft.
This should become clear in a few months as Sugar developers explain what is really going on.
LoB
All this Microsoft interest in OLPC is to stop Linux and open source software on the devices. Do you really think they are going to let the Sugar interface cover up the Windows Explorer desktop? Hell now they are not and Negroponte was vary vague in what he considered "sugar". I sounded more like he wanted the sugar apps torn from the sugar desktop so they run on Windows Explorer. That is what Microsoft wants as it means the Linux and open source stack( Sugar ) is locked out of this market.
No conspiracy, pure facts from years and years of consistent anti-competitive business methods like this. Not fine when you're a monopoly convicted and charged many times with protectionism.
LoB
BINGO! Give this person a cigar.
LoB
I would have no problem if they could somehow make the XO do everything it does now and more but put Windows as the underlying OS. But that is just not even an option and Negroponte wants Sugar taken apart so the apps run on Windows. That means the whole software design goes out the window and last decades version of a user interface is what kids will get.
That is just wrong. Kids don't need all that crap the Windows desktop brings with it. But I also find it difficult to believe that Windows can be a better OS under any GUI when self support is a design goal of the project. Microsoft can't pawn off support to OLPC or it will drown them. Hey, maybe that is the plan?
LoB
The way I look at the Journal is that kids will be given school assignments, start them at school and then have to finish them at home. Isn't it far easier to just start the activity at school and close it, then when you are home, bring up the journal and it is right there at the top or near it. As long as there's a way to copy it to the teacher for evaluation, that's pretty much the last of it and it will move its way down the list.
In the structure of classroom assignments and the short term assignments of this age group, it seems like a very nice way to do this without having all the details to deal with of an hierarchical system. In this case, there are ever changing places to put stuff and that leads to confusion when it's really not needed for the audience targeted.
I'm not sure how well it would work for adult users and every day type of work. Maybe a GoogleDesktop like search mechanism would make it work but this really should be about the XO and the kids.
LoB
it does work and if I can remember the final steps, it shouldn't be too difficult for many to try it out.
1) boot the Ubuntu LiveCD with a network connection
2) open Synaptic Page Manager( System->Administration->Synaptic...)
3) enable the Universe repository found in Synaptics Settings->Repositories menus
4) reload as the dialog will suggest
5) do a Synaptic search for Sugar using the search icon in the upper right of the application
6) select Sugar and Sugar-Activities
7) Click the Apply button
8) when all is done, go to the Login Manager(System->Administration->Login Manager) and unCheck the option for only single user login.
9) switch user from the top launch bar on the desktop, change the Session Type to Sugar, and use the "ubuntu" username with no password.
You should now be running Sugar with a bunch of activities already installed. I only tried the chat activity and it works great. Start it, share it with the network and then invite people to join from the network view(f1).
For some reason, I could not get the web activity to work though it works fine in my installed version of Sugar on Ubuntu 8.04.
Really, this desktop system( Sugar ) and the Journal are a really nice UI for the classroom so that the teacher does not have to spend much time on the UI. Also, students can easily get to their assignments right from the Journal and finish up what they were doing in class. Again, without very much training at all.
FYI, some activities like eToys are not 'real' Sugar activities and are instead Sqeak/Smalltalk applications wrapped in Sugar. Many of the native Sugar activities work as would be expected.
Anybody who's thinking of chiming in on this thread should have spent a couple of hours exploring this system with the understanding that it is designed for children in a classroom with a teacher organizing classwork and homework. IMO.
LoB
The XO needs to be able to perform the tasks that a normal computer performs. It doesn't need to be as fast at all the same things but it needs to be able to do them.
If you mean the following then I agree but these are not all "normal computer" operations:
1) easily start/launch applications
2) easily stop the application or switch to another
3) easily restart the application on the data it was originally started with, not just the last dataset.
4) easily start a mesh network session with one or many XO devices nearby
5) easily enable the user identify one or many users around him/her
6) easily invite one or many users to share applications and/or data
7) easily allow applications to be created which have network sharing builtin
There are quite a few others but these are the key elements of this particular devices requirements as I've come to understand it. As you can see, many of these are not standard on any device I've seen or heard of. An Apple Newton might fit the easy connect/share items but not the "or many" requirement. There's a bunch of power savings things in there too like the computer motherboard can sleep while the display still shows data and the mesh network device also operates on the mesh will the rest of the system is sleeping.
If you have actually used the latest build or even the 656 build then you will know that all of these these things are in a complete stage or in the 90% complete stage of development. It is usable but no quite hitting 100% of the requirements yet. I've only had the device inhand for about 30 days now but we've spent hours using it and probably as many exploring its features. I've spent years on many different GUI systems from handhelds( dedicated and general purpose), PCs, workstations, and thin clients so I'm not a one trick pony of GUI design/use. Also, keeping in mind that the education of children is what the XO's intended use and the requirements set for this to meet that ends, Sugar on the XO does a great job.
The GP said that Sugar was neato but a long way from being ready for primetime. Nothing you have said actually contradicts this. Stability is more important than "usable for some learning activities".
I would not say it is a long way from primetime and you can argue that decades have been spent on very clunky Windows systems with the requirment to pay them for upgrades to make even basic features work. USB comes to mind. So if if there are changes required to Sugar as it matures, the mechanisms for updating are far far better than anything people have used on Windows. Their update-olpc script does a fantastic job at updating the system. Activity loading and installing is as easy as any Debian synaptic system and in some cases easier with batch installation capabilities.
I can not see the device being anything but a chore to use if they try putting a standard desktop computer metaphor on the device and load standard, non-sharable applications on the device. Forcing the kids to deal with the file system to find and reload project data is just going to waste their time and the teachers time as hours and hours will be spent on getting students to find the file they just used last week and get it loaded so they can update it.
At the very least, I would recommend you get the latest Ubuntu LiveCD( wait til tomorrows release ), boot it up as a liveCD, and then install the Sugar and Sugar-Activities packages. You should then be able to run Sugar on your laptop with some of the activities and some with that network sharing capabilities. You can also see how the Journal can be used to get back to your application data in a way which will work nicely in a classroom activity format. ie, assignments are right there at the top of the list where they stay as you complete them and then propagate down the list as they go unused after completion. You should also see the network neighborhood(f1) and network group(f2) screens Sugar has implemented. F1 gets you back to your Home screen
my thought was that there is an NDA which restricts him from saying such things. He may not have signed it but it sure sounds like Negroponte is willing to sign such a thing and NDA's can restrict organizations not just one or two in the org.
LoB
that maybe true for TimTam but one of the eToys does animation along with story telling. There's alot for kids to learn in just this one activity. There's the writing part in the story telling. There is the picture by picture part which might relay the concepts of cause and effect. Also, that small events tied together can create a very difficult or complex event. Whole classwork sections on story telling can be used to teach writing skills and and content creation while at the same time, they're having fun doing it.
I hope that somewhere there is documentation on what the activities provide in the way of learning and what others have done to implement classroom sections using these activities. I believe this is the kind of open source-like education and sharing that Mr Bender is striving for. Teachers helping teachers around the world create better and better coursework in an open environment. I'm still hoping it'll happen.
LoB
interesting, now try this after adding the multiverse and/or universe repositories:
;-)
sudo apt-get install sugar sugar-activities
logout and then change the session type to Sugar and see what you get.
You can also use the standard application install tool(s) if you're not a commandline speed junky. FYI, Sugar has not "logout" option so you have to either reboot or restart gdm to get back to the login screen to boot the XFCE desktop or what ever one you've installed.
LoB
please remember that your kids( ages 9 and 12 ) are not 3rd work kids and as you stated, they have already been indoctrinated into the way Microsoft feels a generic user interface should be. Also, your kids Gateway computer is not being used in a teaching environment with a curriculum designed around learning. All of these are far far off from what the design of the XO and Sugar are about.
And yes, Sugar is not quite there yet but come on, it has taken Microsoft over 10 years to get there little Windows CE/Windows Mobile operating system and UI to a point where it is just about usable. Ten years and they have over $10 billion in losses just in that one little software kit. Sugar is very very close to where it needs to be and already at a point where it is usable for some learning activities. Look up some of the deployment and pilot articles being written and you'll see there is already useful learning going on. Sugar hides alot of the goofiness general purpose desktop UI's have and don't even get me started about the filesystem. Just look at all the changing ways there are to not only create application data but also getting back to it. Sugar simplifies this by putting it into the Journal in time/date order. Just like you would want if the goal was to use the device for assignments which must be finished and turned in for grading and then mostly discarded.
You are making the incorrect assumption that the XO is supposed to be like a normal computer and it is not. It is too bad but way too many think the way you do and the whole project is getting a bad rep because of this misinformation. IMO.
LoB
it's good to see somebody here actually has a clue about this device.
LoB
really, for just under $200 you get a brand new and "much more powerful and real laptop"? That is pure bull and even the Eee PC at ~$300 is missing many of the required features the XO has. Dust, water, and physical abuse resistance is built into the XO but not even the ~$300 Eee PC or the Intel Classmate PC. The outdoor readable display and low power draining wireless mesh, also missing from these 'other' devices but standard on the XO.
Sorry but you're a quack and don't know what you are talking about. And the OLPC XO is designed to be a learning tool by means of being a platform for interactive and collaborative applications while at the same time being a device to read electronic documents( ebooks ) because in the harshest environments where these are intended to be used, paper books don't last long at all.
Do you somehow think that this devices is designed to be like an adults laptop and should therefore be used just as an adults laptop would be used? That and adults general purpose laptop computer and all it's complexity are what kids should be taught? WTF have you been over the last three years this has been talked about? It is a dedicated learning tool and not your standard laptop computer. It is by no means a toy.
LoB
Since then, it's been all about the OEM pre-load market. Even in 1995, Microsoft knew what pre-loading did for Windows and prevented may OEMs from loading OS/2 and later BeOS. Remember the court documents which showed how HP was forced to pull OS/2 off computer at Comdex and not a single US company could or would pre-load OS/2 except IBM. IBM had to pay much higher licensing fees for Windows across it's PC line because they refused to NOT have OS/2 preloads.
They may have failed to keep gamers looking for a new Vista PC by allowing a hack to install DirectX 10 on XP but that is such a small small market. One week of pre-load sales probably covers that gamer upgrade market. You are right about consoles being where it's at now and has been for the past 5+ years.
LoB
Unfortunately, the small pressure Linux and Apple put on them only harms their brand and not really their wallet. As you mentioned, their brand is a big deal to them, hence the Yahoo/Google hopla.
None of this really changes the fact that Microsoft is forcing Vista on users just like they did previous releases.
LoB
Microsoft will drive Vista through you skull just like they did with Windows 2000 and Windows XP. It may take 3 years to get it through your thick skulls that Vista is your future but you will eventually get it.
What could possibly give them reason to not force Vista on its customers being in the position they are in?
This stuff about Vista uptake/etc is getting old and it appears that even 8 yours is too long for people to remember how it was the last couple of times. Surprise, you're stuck with what they give you.
LoB
what's the fun in that? And everyone knows that Microsoft's ability to warm things up and catch things of fire or blow them up is legendary.
http://www.waxingamerica.com/2008/01/atts-u-verse-in.html
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/16/atandt-u-verse-batteries-going-supernova/
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/triple-play/att-uverse-batteries-exploding.asp
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/23/xbox_blaze/
and others including this latest. And what fun is it to post in a computer tech rag about a toaster burning down a home? When Microsoft does it, there's something about it which makes you wonder why they are in the tech industry at all. They are not very good at security, lose money on everything but monopoly leveraged products and their hardware and software does a nice job at adding to global warming( whatever that is ). IMO.
LoB
FTFA: "According to Little Rock, Arkansas fire department captain Jason Weaver, a 360's power cord was to blame for a blaze that injured no one (thankfully) but caused some $100,000 in property damage."
So what first looked like the blaze might have been contained to one room, at $100,000 means it probably took out most of the house.
LoB
The added screen resolution seems to be a smart move and we'll see if "atom" really is anything like the marketing hype they are putting behind it. I would not hold my breath as you seem to be doing because I've made myself blue in the face too many times and been burned. What is here and now is what is important because marketing dweebs can and will tell you all kinds of wonderful lies about the rosy future but only a drop might be true. The here and now is where it's at IMO.
LoB
you can bet that Microsoft required the added memory for the Linux version. It would be foolish of Asus to do this on their own given how Linux does not need that extra space and it is Windows which requires more resources.
IMO, this should have the anti-trust judge looking at what's going on here because it is obvious that Microsoft is manipulating competing product configurations in its licensing. IMO.
LoB
I would suspect the wireless isn't pulling much more than 200-300 mA so most of your battery drain is from the CPU and GPU being used for video playback. You would probably play wireless Internet radio for close to 4 hours too.
LoB
FYI, I found it sad that ASUS opted to increase the cost of the Linux version by changing the specs compared to the Windows version. Adding SKU's is something vendors try very hard not to do. But ASUS, in their licensing of Microsoft Windows for the new version(900) won't give you Linux on the same configuration(12G flash) at a lower price but instead, added hardware to the Linux version(20G flash). Why do you suppose they did that since Linux typically requires far less space than Microsoft Windows? Me thinks customer choice was tampered with as Microsoft is a tough 'partner' and does not like to see companies be successful with Linux. IMO. And so much for this being a cheap device now that the hardware was ramped up to handle Microsofts older version of an OS.
LoB