I'm not particularly fond of PHP as a language -- I much prefer Python or Lisp -- but it's so easy to just use PHP because it tends to already be ready to run on web server systems (no or little setup involved) and there's lots and lots of support available. (How many books do you see on writing Python/MySQL apps? Or Lisp/MySQL apps? Such things exist, but the PHP/MySQL combo is a lot easier to find learning materials for.)
If other languages really want to catch on like PHP has, they will need to be as easy to use as a web development system as PHP is.
Re:how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 1
This is a bit of a loaded question. It comes with the slant that everybody who uses Windows is either ignorant and/or unaware of the alternatives or are forced to against their will.
Wasn't meant as a loaded question, nor with such a slant. There likely are people who fit the description you suggested, but what I was really after were people who choose to use Windows because they explicitly like it more than alternatives. Based on responses such far, such people do exist.
I have absolutely no objections to someone prefering Windows over other OSes... I was just curious as to what made them come to that preference. What features of Windows do they like or enjoy over what's available in other operating systems?... etc.
Re:how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 1
Bravo! Thank you for sharing.
There are good things about Windows. There are good things about OS X, and GNU/Linux. I personally prefer the Unix way of doing shell commands, and prefer the OS X GUI, so I use Apples at home. I use Windows at work. I don't enjoy the base system as much, but it's pretty solid and generally works well. (I'm not a pure Unix fan, either -- I started on Apple IIs mainly, then moved to Amiga, then to WinNT/98, then to GNU/Linux, then to Macs. Even dabbled in OS/400 a bit. All of these systems have good points.)
Re:how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 1
My first Mac computer was an iBook, and I bought a multi-button USB mouse for it.
Earlier this year I bought a flat-panel iMac, and decided to give a try to the one-button mouse. Everything else Apple does tends to be a great design, maybe they are on to something with the mouse.
Somewhat to my surprise, I found it reasonably easy to use. I actually usually don't need to use a second button, and when I do, the Control key works fine. In the end, though, I think that I still prefer using a multi-button mouse with a scroll wheel, but the point is, the one-button mouse wasn't as bad as I might have thought.:-):-)
Re:how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
And that's a big part of it for a lot of people. Gaming is one of the primary uses for home computers, and frankly, neither OS X nor GNU/Linux offer enough games of the sort that the users actually want.
Windows itself isn't actually better in this regard (the operating system isn't necessarily better for gaming), but the net effect of its popularity is that more games are written for it.
I myself am not an avid gamer; I still play my Sega Genesis every now and then, and some freeware arcade games on my Mac. I spend most of my home computer time working with digital photography, writing, web browsing, and programming, all of which work great on a Mac. If I were an avid gamer, then a Mac probably wouldn't cut it for me.
Re:how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I agree.
As much as I like Unix-style systems, they aren't for everybody. I think we all need to be less of a [platform-x] advocate and more of a [platform-thats-really-best-for-the-particular-use r] advocate.
To a lot of people, not having to even think about compatibility issues. They aren't "computer people", they just need to use this computer as a tool. They might not even like computers. For those people, as long as Windows is dominant, Windows may be their best choice. They don't want to use Linux. They don't care. They don't even care that it exists. I think that Mac OS would be better for them as far as usability goes, but not for compatibility, which, for them, is likely more important.
I don't like spending a lot of time with a washing machine; if the one I have works, and accepts the detergents I can buy at the store, then it's fine with me... although some clothes-cleaning experts may be more picky.:-)
Re:how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 1
Indeed!
I'm a programmer, and I don't like messing with broken dependencies to install software either. I may have the knowledge to know how to fix these things, but unless it's an application that I really want, I probably won't bother.
That's one thing that is often better about OS X than GNU/Linux, although not everything is easy to install there. Windows definitely has been good about that as well, possibly better than OS X even.
how many people actually _like_ windows?
on
Pepping Up Windows
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I get the impression that there are more users who actually _like_ (not just put up with) Mac OS X (or maybe even GNU/Linux) than there are who actually _like_ (not just put up with) Windows.
Anyone here actually like Windows? I'm not trolling, just want to know. If you do, what do you like about it?
When we first think of software development, we might think of something that runs on Microsoft Windows or as a web application. But a lot of software (well over half I would say -- perhaps closer to 80%) is embedded, running on everything from microwave ovens to automobiles to children's toys to avionics equipment.
Many of the same core software development principles apply, but it can be harder, especially for unschooled hackers, to get serious experience developing for embedded devices than it is to get experiencing coding for Windows. And if that's where a large percentage of the software development is taking place, then we should really probably look into arranging for easier training in such matters...
Lisp is a most excellent language, and On Lisp is a very good book.
It may be an uphill battle to see Lisp become popular, but even if you doubt that you would be able to use Lisp in any real projects, I would still highly recommend spending some serious time learning Lisp.
Perhaps devote time to studying Lisp over the course of a year or two. Why so long? Because Lisp is so different. Unless you already know functional programming, you probably won't digest it all in a week or two.
Take a look at Paul Graham's essays on Lisp, to start with, and to whet your appetite, and also his books.
In addition to Paul's books, consider "The Little Schemer" or "How to Design Programs", which use the Scheme dialect of Lisp. "Essentials of Programming Languages" uses Scheme to implement interpreters, and you can learn a lot about Lisp through this book as well.
As the previous poster implied, learning how to program in Lisp changes the way you think about programming, and this change affects how you program in _any_ language, not just in Lisp.
That said, PHP is still a good thing. It's great for doing web applications. I just wrote my own custom web log software a few weeks ago, using PHP, and had a grand time. It was a good tool for the job.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not particularly fond of PHP as a language -- I much prefer Python or Lisp -- but it's so easy to just use PHP because it tends to already be ready to run on web server systems (no or little setup involved) and there's lots and lots of support available. (How many books do you see on writing Python/MySQL apps? Or Lisp/MySQL apps? Such things exist, but the PHP/MySQL combo is a lot easier to find learning materials for.)
If other languages really want to catch on like PHP has, they will need to be as easy to use as a web development system as PHP is.
Wasn't meant as a loaded question, nor with such a slant. There likely are people who fit the description you suggested, but what I was really after were people who choose to use Windows because they explicitly like it more than alternatives. Based on responses such far, such people do exist.
I have absolutely no objections to someone prefering Windows over other OSes... I was just curious as to what made them come to that preference. What features of Windows do they like or enjoy over what's available in other operating systems?... etc.
There are good things about Windows. There are good things about OS X, and GNU/Linux. I personally prefer the Unix way of doing shell commands, and prefer the OS X GUI, so I use Apples at home. I use Windows at work. I don't enjoy the base system as much, but it's pretty solid and generally works well. (I'm not a pure Unix fan, either -- I started on Apple IIs mainly, then moved to Amiga, then to WinNT/98, then to GNU/Linux, then to Macs. Even dabbled in OS/400 a bit. All of these systems have good points.)
Earlier this year I bought a flat-panel iMac, and decided to give a try to the one-button mouse. Everything else Apple does tends to be a great design, maybe they are on to something with the mouse.
Somewhat to my surprise, I found it reasonably easy to use. I actually usually don't need to use a second button, and when I do, the Control key works fine. In the end, though, I think that I still prefer using a multi-button mouse with a scroll wheel, but the point is, the one-button mouse wasn't as bad as I might have thought. :-) :-)
Windows itself isn't actually better in this regard (the operating system isn't necessarily better for gaming), but the net effect of its popularity is that more games are written for it.
I myself am not an avid gamer; I still play my Sega Genesis every now and then, and some freeware arcade games on my Mac. I spend most of my home computer time working with digital photography, writing, web browsing, and programming, all of which work great on a Mac. If I were an avid gamer, then a Mac probably wouldn't cut it for me.
As much as I like Unix-style systems, they aren't for everybody. I think we all need to be less of a [platform-x] advocate and more of a [platform-thats-really-best-for-the-particular-use r] advocate.
To a lot of people, not having to even think about compatibility issues. They aren't "computer people", they just need to use this computer as a tool. They might not even like computers. For those people, as long as Windows is dominant, Windows may be their best choice. They don't want to use Linux. They don't care. They don't even care that it exists. I think that Mac OS would be better for them as far as usability goes, but not for compatibility, which, for them, is likely more important.
I don't like spending a lot of time with a washing machine; if the one I have works, and accepts the detergents I can buy at the store, then it's fine with me... although some clothes-cleaning experts may be more picky. :-)
I'm a programmer, and I don't like messing with broken dependencies to install software either. I may have the knowledge to know how to fix these things, but unless it's an application that I really want, I probably won't bother.
That's one thing that is often better about OS X than GNU/Linux, although not everything is easy to install there. Windows definitely has been good about that as well, possibly better than OS X even.
I get the impression that there are more users who actually _like_ (not just put up with) Mac OS X (or maybe even GNU/Linux) than there are who actually _like_ (not just put up with) Windows. Anyone here actually like Windows? I'm not trolling, just want to know. If you do, what do you like about it?
This happens in CS-related fields too, though.
When we first think of software development, we might think of something that runs on Microsoft Windows or as a web application. But a lot of software (well over half I would say -- perhaps closer to 80%) is embedded, running on everything from microwave ovens to automobiles to children's toys to avionics equipment.
Many of the same core software development principles apply, but it can be harder, especially for unschooled hackers, to get serious experience developing for embedded devices than it is to get experiencing coding for Windows. And if that's where a large percentage of the software development is taking place, then we should really probably look into arranging for easier training in such matters...
I, for one, would never read such a site. And I certainly would not participate in any user discussions about the news.
Lisp is a most excellent language, and On Lisp is a very good book.
It may be an uphill battle to see Lisp become popular, but even if you doubt that you would be able to use Lisp in any real projects, I would still highly recommend spending some serious time learning Lisp.
Perhaps devote time to studying Lisp over the course of a year or two. Why so long? Because Lisp is so different. Unless you already know functional programming, you probably won't digest it all in a week or two.
Take a look at Paul Graham's essays on Lisp, to start with, and to whet your appetite, and also his books.
In addition to Paul's books, consider "The Little Schemer" or "How to Design Programs", which use the Scheme dialect of Lisp. "Essentials of Programming Languages" uses Scheme to implement interpreters, and you can learn a lot about Lisp through this book as well.
As the previous poster implied, learning how to program in Lisp changes the way you think about programming, and this change affects how you program in _any_ language, not just in Lisp.
That said, PHP is still a good thing. It's great for doing web applications. I just wrote my own custom web log software a few weeks ago, using PHP, and had a grand time. It was a good tool for the job.