Yes. In that case you're pretty stuffed. Maybe you should do that from home and make a few calls first. The big difference between Sales and Support is that there is a big difference in their knowledge bases. I know one guy who owns a branch of an electronics shop, actually was a very good tech before he decided to go into sales. Ask him anything and if he doesn't know then he will point you in the right direction. These people are very rare though.
Yes. I have heard that before. What I've found is that if you pic a random 'Windows only' user and hand them a CD/USB of a linux app (let's assume that it is a.deb file) and follow their thoughts and clicks, I bet it won't happen. But that's understandable as they've got no idea what to click on without reading a readme. Even then it's uphill battle. If it is source code (which is the only way I know to get generic Linux apps to work on all flavors of linux), and it needs to be compiled on Ubuntu, then you have to install the compiler first (good luck!), then hope that you've: A) Found the 'Terminal' app! -( sounds like a modem app to most) B) CD to the right folder!! C) Look up the right syntax D) Bet your grandmother's shoes that it won't work.
For a Windows user to move to Linux, the CD should auto mount and auto boot, the file system should show the installer app/script with the words "CLICK THIS TO INSTALL (insert app here)". That's because that it what they are used to! People won't mind compile times, especially if it has a nice looking thermometer showing them how far it's gone. Ever experience Neopt Systems trying to install Adobe Reader 7x? People will wait. The UI needs dramatic improvement, and command line should disappear, like the run/msdos box in windows. If you don't believe me, just check some of the newbie linux forums. You'll be amazed!
A Windows machine came in with the same prob. It was a bios setting that fixed it. The Wake Up function was disabled for mice/keyboard. Maybe check there.....
And how does that compare to let's say installing a WinX app that's on a CD? Following that link I eventually came to: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.10/add-applications/C/offline.html Which detailed just enough info to do what a simple click to install Windows app would do. You may think that is easy, but many Windows users hoping to migrate to Linux just wouldn't have a clue. Maybe some developers could work on an offline installer that can auto-boot itself?
Being faster means little if the average person can not install an application and have it work! That is WITHOUT going to the command line, editing some script, coping some file, or hunting for some needed RPM.
That is so true! In fact you've nailed the Linux Desktop problem. Linux for the most part depends on repositories for software, yet there are hundreds of other software sources out there like CD/DVD, straight downloads, torrents etc. There are also 50+ versions of Linux. So if I put my brand new CD of Linux utilities or even OO3 into my Ubuntu 7.10 (which works fine by the way), How do I install it? Simple Point-and-Click? Not a chance. * It may not work with that particular Linux. * It may not work because you've got an outdated kernel. * It may not work because you've got the wrong desktop.
Now I use Linux for producing stuff, not playing around with file systems or command line jargon. If I want to install something, it's back to the forums, or my own 'documentation' or just hope the damn software installs by clicking on it. And if some linux geek tries to tell me why I have to update a year old Ubuntu which is working perfectly well. I'll tell them to fix up software installation first so all packages work on all Linux approaches. What's so hard about that? Years ago I saw lots of post-it notes around DOS based computers of how to do xcopy or change directory etc. In 2008 that is what Linux is about, and that needs to change.
Should I try asking the sales associate whether sleep works in Linux? I have, and the answer has invariably been "I don't know".
Sales aren't that brutally honest. 99.9% of sales staff would have said "Yes" to make the deal. The 0.01% of the remainder would have referred you to the manufacturer's website.
For those moderators who don't get the point: If someone weighs as much as a duck (Monty Python- The Holy Grail), and African Swallow (Monty Python- The Holy Grail), I said "African Duck" bringing both concepts together within a 'digital dark age*' (RTFTitle), then you can see that: A. It's got humour B. It is on topic (sort of) C. It is relevant to the posts above D. Ifonography was also on-topic as well. ------- *Dark Age - Monty Python was set in the Dark Age.
Thanks for the link. The long tail theory is very welcoming for me, as we get flooded with middle of the road in everything, the saturation makes us want something different. For example: Bonzo Dog created some fine music and were involved with the Beatles, Monty Python etc. So if you're a Beatles fan or a Monty Python fan, then eventually you get drawn to Bonzo Dog. Then you get to appreciate them for what they were. Faust is the complete antithesis of 'middle of the road'. When you get jaded with tin pan alley, you want to clear your head with some avant garde.
But the main point should be that the internet should (and does) provide an extensive and far-reaching library of almost everything. Getting access to the library is difficult and not intuitive. There are laws, copyright, technological limitations and search restrictions that prevent most people from finding and experiencing something 'different'. In the end, everybody should have access or (as my imagination can stretch) even local copies of everything available. That's what the 'promise of the future' is. I've seen it in promotional Apple material in the 90's, in Sci-Fi (Star Trek original is a good example), where computers can almost instantly provide any information that's needed. How close is MTV to that promised future? How close will they be in 10 years time?
lol Can you envision this?
Spock: Captain? I believe that the first 4 bars of a late 20th century musical group called 'The B52's' rendition of Rock Lobster contain the sequence we need to re-align the phaser array.
Capt Kirk: Uhura, contact Star fleet and get them to send us the first 4 bars of Rock Lobster by the B52s.
Uhura: Captain? They want to know if you want to pay by credit card or Paypal.
I hacked into Carmen SanDiego and changed the character names to those of the staff of a school I was working at. The 5-1/2" floppy, formatted for an Apple// went into a time capsule around 1988. In 2013 it will be opened up. It'll be stuffed, just like the rest of the contents.
Interesting link. To be clearer, APC reported that 25% of mp3 downloads via Limewire contain malware of some description. Boxes with Limewire installs that I've seen are always infected. Mind you, people that download with Limewire also visit infected sites anyway. A new host file and tools from Malwarebytes helps greatly.
lol Same sort of principle here as well. The idea was that as race start came closer, there was more of a discrepancy between the odds/prices. To win statistically, you had to make multiple bets on each race to cater for favourites and long-shots. So if you could exclude 5 nags or include 2 nags seconds before the race start, you could make lots and lots of money. Working 'dry', he made $thousands/day. The stumbling block was to try and get a modem link to the betting agencies (a big fee/year) so they can process the multiple bets sent to them fast enough.... They couldn't handle the requests at that speed! So here was a great prog that statistically won money on 1-2 place wins, but there was no feasible way of making the bets. |sigh|
There was a great program called Macroassembler (or something like it). It also had a compiler too. One of my first jobs was to rip data out of teletext pages for a Horse/greyhound betting system that worked on the difference in the way odds were calculated as race start approached. I had about 10 live pages being polled via the serial port, automagically displayed in columns using colours to highlight differences in odds and prices, a selection mechanism, a betting mechanism, a bank, a save/restore routine and more - all on an Apple ][+ This was written in basic and compiled + additional assembly modules. Worked a treat! I then had to port it over to an IBM clone a few years later. This wasn't compiled, but the Apple version was still faster and easier to use. Those were the days.
Ever hear of peek and poke? I used to do the same and even get into assembly on some games by crashing it and changing the values directly. I could also use some sector readers and change the txt displayed on screen on some games too (like Carmen SanDiego). They were great machines to work with.
That's the end point if you think about it. Linux is one of those OSs' that should be built around the hardware. Arch Linux forces you to do that and consequently is much faster than a vanilla install of Ubuntu. Not having to use resource hogs like KDE/Gnome etc helps as well. You don't need overbuilt gui to work a good desktop. But Ubuntu is for everyone and Arch linux is for real geeks.
Exactly damnit! Why don't they do that? Gee, If I had a telescope that big, I would check out other things than stars and space. Ahem... I wouldn't be interested in looking at Joe's butt-freckle though. I can think of other, more alluring bits of anatomy to spy on.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes. In that case you're pretty stuffed. Maybe you should do that from home and make a few calls first.
The big difference between Sales and Support is that there is a big difference in their knowledge bases.
I know one guy who owns a branch of an electronics shop, actually was a very good tech before he decided to go into sales. Ask him anything and if he doesn't know then he will point you in the right direction. These people are very rare though.
Yes. I have heard that before. .deb file) and follow their thoughts and clicks, I bet it won't happen. But that's understandable as they've got no idea what to click on without reading a readme. Even then it's uphill battle.
What I've found is that if you pic a random 'Windows only' user and hand them a CD/USB of a linux app (let's assume that it is a
If it is source code (which is the only way I know to get generic Linux apps to work on all flavors of linux), and it needs to be compiled on Ubuntu, then you have to install the compiler first (good luck!), then hope that you've:
A) Found the 'Terminal' app! -( sounds like a modem app to most)
B) CD to the right folder!!
C) Look up the right syntax
D) Bet your grandmother's shoes that it won't work.
For a Windows user to move to Linux, the CD should auto mount and auto boot, the file system should show the installer app/script with the words "CLICK THIS TO INSTALL (insert app here)". That's because that it what they are used to!
People won't mind compile times, especially if it has a nice looking thermometer showing them how far it's gone. Ever experience Neopt Systems trying to install Adobe Reader 7x? People will wait.
The UI needs dramatic improvement, and command line should disappear, like the run/msdos box in windows.
If you don't believe me, just check some of the newbie linux forums. You'll be amazed!
A Windows machine came in with the same prob.
It was a bios setting that fixed it.
The Wake Up function was disabled for mice/keyboard. Maybe check there.....
And how does that compare to let's say installing a WinX app that's on a CD?
Following that link I eventually came to: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.10/add-applications/C/offline.html
Which detailed just enough info to do what a simple click to install Windows app would do.
You may think that is easy, but many Windows users hoping to migrate to Linux just wouldn't have a clue.
Maybe some developers could work on an offline installer that can auto-boot itself?
Not even close!
Being faster means little if the average person can not install an application and have it work! That is WITHOUT going to the command line, editing some script, coping some file, or hunting for some needed RPM.
That is so true! In fact you've nailed the Linux Desktop problem.
Linux for the most part depends on repositories for software, yet there are hundreds of other software sources out there like CD/DVD, straight downloads, torrents etc.
There are also 50+ versions of Linux.
So if I put my brand new CD of Linux utilities or even OO3 into my Ubuntu 7.10 (which works fine by the way), How do I install it?
Simple Point-and-Click? Not a chance.
* It may not work with that particular Linux.
* It may not work because you've got an outdated kernel.
* It may not work because you've got the wrong desktop.
Now I use Linux for producing stuff, not playing around with file systems or command line jargon. If I want to install something, it's back to the forums, or my own 'documentation' or just hope the damn software installs by clicking on it.
And if some linux geek tries to tell me why I have to update a year old Ubuntu which is working perfectly well. I'll tell them to fix up software installation first so all packages work on all Linux approaches. What's so hard about that?
Years ago I saw lots of post-it notes around DOS based computers of how to do xcopy or change directory etc. In 2008 that is what Linux is about, and that needs to change.
Should I try asking the sales associate whether sleep works in Linux? I have, and the answer has invariably been "I don't know".
Sales aren't that brutally honest. 99.9% of sales staff would have said "Yes" to make the deal. The 0.01% of the remainder would have referred you to the manufacturer's website.
I, for one, welcome our Tetrahymenian Overladies!
I, for one, welcome our Tetrahymenian Overlords!
For those moderators who don't get the point:
If someone weighs as much as a duck (Monty Python- The Holy Grail), and African Swallow (Monty Python- The Holy Grail), I said "African Duck" bringing both concepts together within a 'digital dark age*' (RTFTitle), then you can see that:
A. It's got humour
B. It is on topic (sort of)
C. It is relevant to the posts above
D. Ifonography was also on-topic as well.
-------
*Dark Age - Monty Python was set in the Dark Age.
Thanks for the link. The long tail theory is very welcoming for me, as we get flooded with middle of the road in everything, the saturation makes us want something different.
For example: Bonzo Dog created some fine music and were involved with the Beatles, Monty Python etc.
So if you're a Beatles fan or a Monty Python fan, then eventually you get drawn to Bonzo Dog. Then you get to appreciate them for what they were.
Faust is the complete antithesis of 'middle of the road'. When you get jaded with tin pan alley, you want to clear your head with some avant garde.
But the main point should be that the internet should (and does) provide an extensive and far-reaching library of almost everything. Getting access to the library is difficult and not intuitive. There are laws, copyright, technological limitations and search restrictions that prevent most people from finding and experiencing something 'different'.
In the end, everybody should have access or (as my imagination can stretch) even local copies of everything available.
That's what the 'promise of the future' is. I've seen it in promotional Apple material in the 90's, in Sci-Fi (Star Trek original is a good example), where computers can almost instantly provide any information that's needed.
How close is MTV to that promised future? How close will they be in 10 years time?
lol Can you envision this?
Spock: Captain? I believe that the first 4 bars of a late 20th century musical group called 'The B52's' rendition of Rock Lobster contain the sequence we need to re-align the phaser array.
Capt Kirk: Uhura, contact Star fleet and get them to send us the first 4 bars of Rock Lobster by the B52s.
Uhura: Captain? They want to know if you want to pay by credit card or Paypal.
Yeah, but they'll never show Faust or Bonzo Dog will they? It's just middle of the road crap.
I hacked into Carmen SanDiego and changed the character names to those of the staff of a school I was working at. // went into a time capsule around 1988. In 2013 it will be opened up.
The 5-1/2" floppy, formatted for an Apple
It'll be stuffed, just like the rest of the contents.
Deep inside I was hoping for Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy.
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Mermaid_Man_and_Barnacle_Boy_V
Most of the garbage that we have now just isn't worth keeping.
Does that include Slashdot posts???
Is that an African duck?
Which Star Trek?
Enterprise was the pick of the new litter IMHO.
Interesting link.
To be clearer, APC reported that 25% of mp3 downloads via Limewire contain malware of some description.
Boxes with Limewire installs that I've seen are always infected. Mind you, people that download with Limewire also visit infected sites anyway.
A new host file and tools from Malwarebytes helps greatly.
lol Same sort of principle here as well.
The idea was that as race start came closer, there was more of a discrepancy between the odds/prices. To win statistically, you had to make multiple bets on each race to cater for favourites and long-shots.
So if you could exclude 5 nags or include 2 nags seconds before the race start, you could make lots and lots of money.
Working 'dry', he made $thousands/day. The stumbling block was to try and get a modem link to the betting agencies (a big fee/year) so they can process the multiple bets sent to them fast enough.... They couldn't handle the requests at that speed!
So here was a great prog that statistically won money on 1-2 place wins, but there was no feasible way of making the bets. |sigh|
I thought that was Limewire's job.
There was a great program called Macroassembler (or something like it).
It also had a compiler too.
One of my first jobs was to rip data out of teletext pages for a Horse/greyhound betting system that worked on the difference in the way odds were calculated as race start approached.
I had about 10 live pages being polled via the serial port, automagically displayed in columns using colours to highlight differences in odds and prices, a selection mechanism, a betting mechanism, a bank, a save/restore routine and more - all on an Apple ][+
This was written in basic and compiled + additional assembly modules. Worked a treat!
I then had to port it over to an IBM clone a few years later. This wasn't compiled, but the Apple version was still faster and easier to use.
Those were the days.
Hey! I liked my bubble!
Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day installing Gentoo.
Ever hear of peek and poke?
I used to do the same and even get into assembly on some games by crashing it and changing the values directly.
I could also use some sector readers and change the txt displayed on screen on some games too (like Carmen SanDiego).
They were great machines to work with.
I think that's a rhetorical tautology.
That's the end point if you think about it.
Linux is one of those OSs' that should be built around the hardware.
Arch Linux forces you to do that and consequently is much faster than a vanilla install of Ubuntu.
Not having to use resource hogs like KDE/Gnome etc helps as well.
You don't need overbuilt gui to work a good desktop.
But Ubuntu is for everyone and Arch linux is for real geeks.
Exactly damnit! Why don't they do that?
Gee, If I had a telescope that big, I would check out other things than stars and space. Ahem... I wouldn't be interested in looking at Joe's butt-freckle though. I can think of other, more alluring bits of anatomy to spy on.